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Jay Swanson takes his garage monologues to the couch, where anything goes. Friends drop by to ruin the monologue element and discuss everything from what goes on behind the scenes to current events and more.
[01:00:00.06] - Speaker 1
And I'll tell you, man, you know, 17 years in comedy in New York, I didn't examine and deconstruct
comedy the way I am now.
[01:00:07.21] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:00:08.11] - Speaker 1
I'm watching my own tape, real videos, in a way that I would have never watched it if I stayed in New
York.
[01:00:15.10] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:00:15.27] - Speaker 1
You know, when I have an idea in English, I could just walk right up onstage and say it.
[01:00:19.24] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:00:20.06] - Speaker 1
And I don't get to do that in France. I have to be more mindful of facial expressions, body language.
You know, I watch shows like Cesar Millan, the dog whisperer, and he talks about how your body
language language is a language to, to dogs, and, and it— but it's also a language to human beings.
[01:00:46.14] - Speaker 2
If you watch podcasts, you've probably heard that people are very concerned with the fact that their
listeners don't tend to subscribe anymore. The algorithms have pushed all of us away from doing so.
You can see our stats on screen right now. How many people are watching or listening versus how
many are actually subscribed. And it is one of those things that still matters as far as sending a signal
to the algorithm. The number doesn't necessarily matter, although Paul is rooting for us to hit our
100,000 subscriber mark. That's a ways away. I'm rooting for 1,000 subscribers on YouTube if you're
watching it there. But follow wherever you are. It's a wonderful signal you can send to the algorithm to
let it know you want to see more of it and hopefully help us find even more people who want to enjoy
the show and the stories we're telling from Paris. If you do that for us, It would be quite the treat, and
we're gonna do our best to keep entertaining you from Paris. Welcome to Garage Monologues. In our
season of transition, season 4, I am back with Tamer Katan, who's in the process of building a show
in French, a language he did not speak until recently.
[01:01:42.13] - Speaker 2
He's learning a new language to perform comedy live on stage in front of French people, the world's
most notoriously judgy audience. in their own language at home. Tamer.
[01:01:54.09] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:01:55.01] - Speaker 2
There's been a lot going on. When we first talked about this, we got everybody up to speed with your
goal of how you wanted to get this show done and how you had started from zero, how it wasn't
actually that hard for you, a seasoned comedian, to make French people laugh, which I think is gonna
draw a lot of suspicion from people. And now you've got some major milestones to share with us
from the last—
[01:02:14.09] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:02:14.29] - Speaker 2
Little while. Can you give us a little recap about how you're feeling and like where you're at right now
with your process?
[01:02:19.20] - Speaker 1
It's very strange, Jay Swanson. It's very up and down. It's an emotional roller coaster.
[01:02:25.05] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:02:25.07] - Speaker 1
Language learning is a bizarre thing. There's days where you're like, hey, I'm really getting this.
[01:02:29.09] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:02:29.19] - Speaker 1
And you even go like, I got this. Dare I say I got this?
[01:02:33.26] - Speaker 2
I am now French.
[01:02:35.04] - Speaker 1
And exactly. And then of course you end up just going, nope. You know, then you, you try to say
something.
[01:02:41.01] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:02:41.10] - Speaker 1
That's what it is. It's every time you learn something, then you push yourself to go to the next level and
then you realize I'm not there yet. I'll tell you though, I am baffled by what's been happening because—
[01:02:53.25] - Speaker 2
With you or with the French?
[01:02:55.28] - Speaker 1
The process.
[01:02:56.13] - Speaker 2
Yeah, okay.
[01:02:57.16] - Speaker 1
I've always, um, I've always known that there's gonna be naysayers when it comes to certain things.
[01:03:02.28] - Speaker 2
Absolutely.
[01:03:03.19] - Speaker 1
But the amount of naysayers was so large that I started even doubting myself. Even other comedians.
[01:03:10.11] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:03:11.03] - Speaker 1
Comedians who have not done it. and comedians who have done it.
[01:03:14.22] - Speaker 2
So you were talking with somebody about this recently who was not Paul, you said?
[01:03:18.02] - Speaker 1
Who's not Paul, but he's also—
[01:03:19.20] - Speaker 2
Because you're about to throw someone under the bus is what you're—
[01:03:21.14] - Speaker 1
I'm not gonna throw him under the bus. I'm just repeating exactly what the person said.
[01:03:26.12] - Speaker 2
Fair enough.
[01:03:27.12] - Speaker 1
And I, you know, I just said, hey, I'm impressed with what you've done. And, you know, I'm attempting
to do the same thing. And I just wanted to send you a shout out and say, you know, I've been doing
comedy for a long time. I think what you've done is great. And his response back was like, oh, well, it's
very hard, just so you know. I should know.
[01:03:47.09] - Speaker 2
Oh, you shot this to him?
[01:03:49.03] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:03:49.04] - Speaker 2
Oh.
[01:03:49.19] - Speaker 1
And it was just like a friendly email. And I didn't, I didn't ask if it's hard.
[01:03:53.23] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:03:54.09] - Speaker 1
I didn't ask for advice. I didn't ask for anything, but just the negativity with no, no good luck. No, just, it
was just negative, negative, negative. And I'm like, that's interesting.
[01:04:05.08] - Speaker 2
Was it defensive? Were they like protecting their territory? It was very defensive.
[01:04:08.02] - Speaker 1
It was very defensive.
[01:04:09.02] - Speaker 2
Like, no, no, no, we don't need any more of you.
[01:04:10.16] - Speaker 1
I got this. I got this cornered, which ironically, uh, for me growing, growing up the way that I did was
actually validating.
[01:04:19.14] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:04:19.24] - Speaker 1
I'm like, okay, then I'm on the right. I'm going in the right direction.
[01:04:21.23] - Speaker 2
Absolutely. Yeah.
[01:04:22.06] - Speaker 1
That, but I was surprised because it's almost like someone pushing you when you went to shake a
hand and they slap it away. I'm like, oh, that's interesting.
[01:04:30.18] - Speaker 2
Okay.
[01:04:31.02] - Speaker 1
Let's, you know. Yeah.
[01:04:32.10] - Speaker 2
Especially when like it becomes competitive at that point, which is exactly what your, your mentor told
you not to do.
[01:04:38.04] - Speaker 1
Exactly. It's not competitive. And also it just, it's, It's actually quite strange for me because I'm very
lucky, um, to have the pedigree that I've had in comedy.
[01:04:47.13] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:04:47.18] - Speaker 1
I'm a Comedy Store comic, Comedy Cellar comic in LA, New York, the biggest, most sought-after
clubs and the hardest places to be a regular. And I was at both and the Comedy Store in London and,
and, you know, I've won a list of things.
[01:05:03.29] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:05:04.04] - Speaker 1
So for me to reach out to somebody that I don't know. And for them to have that kind of response was
a little bit surprising.
[01:05:10.17] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:05:11.20] - Speaker 1
Of course those things don't matter at the end of the day, but I'm a little bit surprised that someone
who is in comedy, the response would be so negative.
[01:05:20.08] - Speaker 2
And so like, oh, you know, is this a reflection of like the comedy scene in Paris as you've found it so
far?
[01:05:26.27] - Speaker 1
No, cause I don't think so.
[01:05:28.00] - Speaker 2
There's been, you've had quite the interesting road through odd people so far.
[01:05:33.06] - Speaker 1
It's very interesting because I feel like. For all the negative comments that people have about the
entertainment industry or business in general, Yeah. The idea of having an HR department creates
civility and a sense of direction for people. Of course, I don't love networks and managers and all that
stuff, and there's tons of horrific stories, but they are sort of milestones and guardrails, right? for, you
know, for, for the direction that you're going. I would say not— I would never listen to a manager
prescriptively. Yeah, but I would listen directionally because they do have a lot of knowledge and from
an angle that we don't as artists.
[01:06:15.26] - Speaker 2
So like strategically, not tactically, like in that sense.
[01:06:18.16] - Speaker 1
Exactly. Like, I, I, I'm still gonna listen, right?
[01:06:21.15] - Speaker 2
Is that structure not here then, or no, for the English-speaking comedy specifically? Or because there's
some structure for the French side, right? Or no?
[01:06:28.24] - Speaker 1
I mean, English-speaking comedy here is almost nonexistent, to be honest. I think there's a larger
percentage of hobbyists than there are of professional English-speaking comedians.
[01:06:39.28] - Speaker 2
Is that partially 'cause there's just not money for there to be enough professionals?
[01:06:43.19] - Speaker 1
No, and I don't think it's a terrible thing. I mean, a lot of great things start with hobbyists. I mean,
airplanes came from hobbyists. You know what I mean? But it's much more entrepreneurial, I would
say. comedy business in America, if you're gonna go on tour, at least when I— before I left America,
you just contact the clubs.
[01:07:03.05] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:07:03.23] - Speaker 1
And the clubs would book you, book you, book you, and you create a little tour and off you go. And
here it's, it's all you. Everything is you.
[01:07:10.05] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:07:10.19] - Speaker 1
The marketing, um, the, the art creation, just everything.
[01:07:16.01] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:07:16.15] - Speaker 1
Every— and, you know, and so in my experience, when that was the case in other worlds, that created
a sense of camaraderie.
[01:07:23.22] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:07:24.03] - Speaker 1
that actually helps everyone develop when people have this professional courtesy.
[01:07:29.15] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:07:29.24] - Speaker 1
You know, and you help each other out. And even in the States, there's this understanding, 'cause I
went to Hollywood High School.
[01:07:36.19] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:07:36.29] - Speaker 1
So I've been around Hollywood my whole life. There were kids in my class that were on TV.
[01:07:40.19] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:07:40.27] - Speaker 1
So I understood professional courtesy. I also understood that if you're a comedian, comedians don't
become successful alone. They become successful in tribes. When Louis C.K. became famous, his
tribe was Chris Rock. His tribe was Dave Chappelle and Jerry Seinfeld and all these other— and Sarah
Silverman.
[01:08:00.11] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:08:00.28] - Speaker 1
And all these other people. So when they got a TV show, they hired their friends to come on the show.
Because if you sell a TV show and you don't have your friends, yeah, the network will give you writers
and those writers might not like you. Yeah, they might not think that your script is that good.
[01:08:17.01] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:08:17.17] - Speaker 1
They might think, oh, it's time to compete. And that creates chaos.
[01:08:21.18] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:08:22.05] - Speaker 1
So structure, like places like Saturday Night Live, I don't like the hyperstructure of Saturday Night Live,
but I understand its purpose.
[01:08:31.17] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:08:32.03] - Speaker 1
So there's a wildness, uh, and an entrepreneurial element to the comedy scene in France, in Europe in
general.
[01:08:39.25] - Speaker 2
Yeah. That's, um, because you were doing comedy in Berlin before this. It's not like you came to
France fresh to Europe.
[01:08:46.05] - Speaker 1
Berlin's similar. Berlin has a— Berlin is not as professional as people think. The quantity is much
higher, but the quality is not.
[01:08:53.12] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:08:53.26] - Speaker 1
You know, um, and I don't think that that's a terrible thing. I just think, you know, when you start in
comedy, a lot of your jokes are in the, uh, genital area.
[01:09:02.00] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:09:02.11] - Speaker 1
And it goes genitals, brain, and then heart.
[01:09:05.06] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:09:05.16] - Speaker 1
And that's usually the, the progress that comedians make. And, you know, whenever I go to a scene
and if, if half the jokes are about genitals, and I'm like, okay, this is a beginner scene. Yeah, you know,
this is, uh, easy laughs or people trying to make something that's already funny funnier, and that's
usually where the hacky jokes are.
[01:09:21.19] - Speaker 2
I don't mean any of this— sure, I mean, come on.
[01:09:24.24] - Speaker 1
And I don't mean any of this is an insult, by the way, right? You know, I, I respect everybody's path and
process and all that stuff. I'm just—
[01:09:30.25] - Speaker 2
But you're gauging there is a path and there is like people are in different places. Cooper, if you're too
hot, you can get down too, buddy.
[01:09:37.05] - Speaker 1
It's like, uh, you know, it's like being a foodie. I still enjoy a hamburger from time to time.
[01:09:41.03] - Speaker 2
Sure.
[01:09:41.17] - Speaker 1
But I'm not going to appreciate it as much as I enjoy a meal made by a proper chef.
[01:09:46.05] - Speaker 2
Fair enough. Yeah. So I think what you're describing then is you've entered into a barren land without
the tribe. You had a tribe. Did you— would you say you had a tribe when you were in New York? Did
you have that group? Yeah.
[01:09:58.05] - Speaker 1
Yeah. In New York, the only time I would email clubs was to tell them I couldn't do a spot. I wouldn't
even need— I was just on calendar.
[01:10:06.23] - Speaker 2
That's great.
[01:10:07.08] - Speaker 1
Yeah. All the time. I would only call to say I can't do so.
[01:10:10.07] - Speaker 2
But that's, that's a big transitional That's a big jump in your career to go from being fully booked out
until whenever to coming here and having to start from scratch.
[01:10:20.11] - Speaker 1
But I love it. Honestly, it's been a really good thing for my comedy. I feel like I'm a lot more thoughtful
about the stuff that I'm writing and saying now than I was when I was in New York, even. I hate to say
that. And I think some of the comics I've seen in the French scene are freaking incredible. The only
difference between them and some of the comics in New York is the audacity to say I'm the best.
[01:10:41.29] - Speaker 2
Is that just the French, like— well, I mean, that is a very French thing not to even like speak up in that
way, for sure.
[01:10:47.24] - Speaker 1
I'll say it right now, there's a guy here named Fari. Yeah, I, I think Fari's as good as any comic in New
York. Um, I don't know if he would, um, agree with me, but I think he's incredible. Yeah, and it's not
because he's already famous, it's the stuff that he has the courage to talk about and the way that he
talks about it. Like, here's the thing that, like, uh, that I love that Anthony Jeselnik said, and he stole it
from Andy Warhol.
[01:11:12.27] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:11:13.18] - Speaker 1
Art is not saying terrible things. Art is saying things and getting away with it.
[01:11:18.27] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:11:19.22] - Speaker 1
And there's so many people online today, especially like, uh, comics that go after hecklers or crowd
work comics or whatever, that go, oh, people are so sensitive. It's like, no, you missed.
[01:11:29.20] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:11:30.17] - Speaker 1
It's not that people are sensitive. Yeah, it's not art when you're not getting away with it. Yeah, get away
with it. Yeah, but if the majority of people are like, hey, this is just really awful. Yeah, you're saying then
no, it's not that everyone is sensitive. It's that your art isn't sharp.
[01:11:45.06] - Speaker 2
You haven't found the way to articulate it.
[01:11:47.04] - Speaker 1
And it— great comedy takes time. Great art takes time. Yeah, and the algorithm doesn't agree with
that. The algorithm just wants you to produce, produce, produce, produce, right? And if you chase the
algorithm instead of art, you start putting out stuff that's not ready.
[01:11:58.13] - Speaker 2
Well, not getting away with it serves the algorithm better. Like, the more pissed off people are about it,
absolutely, the farther it's going to go.
[01:12:04.28] - Speaker 1
So algorithm favors you not getting away with it.
[01:12:06.28] - Speaker 2
Yeah, in that way, actually, you could make an argument that the algorithm directly undermines the
art. Yeah, from the outset.
[01:12:13.02] - Speaker 1
You can't change the waves, you can't change the wind, but you can learn how to surf. Yeah, you
know, and I think that's what I'm learning, how to read the weather and just, you know, going, hey, I
can't change some of these things right now, so I'm not going to spend my life raging against them.
But I'll figure out the direction of the wind and move my sails.
[01:12:28.11] - Speaker 2
So the weather difference here in France is it's a less mature scene that is more of a hobbyist scene
on the English side in particular. And the English side then too doesn't have as much of the structure
in place. You don't have the same management. You don't have the same gatekeepers in that sense
because it's not a professional scene and it hasn't developed yet. And then on the French side, which
is what you're entering into, there are more opportunities. It is more professional. Oh, it's much more
professional. And that's what's drawing you into it as much as anything. Oh, yeah, 100%.
[01:12:58.13] - Speaker 1
It's absolutely— it's an incredibly professional scene. A lot of the clubs have been created by
comedians themselves. And that's crazy. Like Jamal Comedy Club, Madame Sarfati. These are
incredible clubs that comedians have created. And it's art created by artists, or locations where art is
seen created by artists, really does a lot. Yeah, um, for a club. And so I've been really impressed by the
French scene, but I, I think also the, the audiences in France, it's, it's not that they're different than
what people have been telling me, they're the opposite.
[01:13:32.23] - Speaker 2
Like, what— okay, what do people tell you? And then they tell me that they're mean and judgmental
and harsh. Yeah.
[01:13:37.12] - Speaker 1
And it's the opposite.
[01:13:38.19] - Speaker 2
Okay.
[01:13:39.02] - Speaker 1
It's the opposite.
[01:13:39.19] - Speaker 2
They're open and accepting and warm?
[01:13:41.19] - Speaker 1
Absolutely.
[01:13:42.08] - Speaker 2
Okay.
[01:13:42.25] - Speaker 1
I, I have not— I, I've not had It almost makes me emotional. The comments I get online are incredible.
I, I've lived in America my entire life and I speak perfect English, and I don't think anyone's ever said,
welcome to America.
[01:13:58.05] - Speaker 2
Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.
[01:14:00.05] - Speaker 1
And I don't mean that in a harsh way, it's just cultural.
[01:14:02.12] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:14:02.24] - Speaker 1
Whereas here, I, you know, I put out, um, a video talking about, you know, moving from America to
France and starting comedy, and I made a little couple jokes in there.
[01:14:11.05] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:14:11.17] - Speaker 1
And it went a It's the most viral video I've had in French language.
[01:14:14.26] - Speaker 2
Oh, that's the one you said just popped recently.
[01:14:17.03] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:14:17.08] - Speaker 2
Yeah. Just saying, hey, here's my story. Yeah.
[01:14:19.26] - Speaker 1
The comments are so incredibly kind. I mean, of course there's gonna— there's people that disagree
with what I— with some of the things that I said, but in general, people are like, welcome to the
country, congratulations on your French, I've been watching your videos, your French is really
improving.
[01:14:33.24] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:14:34.08] - Speaker 1
It's like, Jesus, like, it's incredibly kind and heartwarming.
[01:14:38.15] - Speaker 2
Yeah. Let's take a quick break brought to you by our sponsor. What are one of the things that has
helped you the most in learning your French?
[01:14:47.10] - Speaker 1
Just talking to people. Yeah, is so important. There is like this extra gap between knowing the
language and speaking the language. And if you never cross that gap, no matter how well you know
the language, that gap is still there. So like being able to speak to someone one-on-one, yeah, even
over, over FaceTime or through a screen, is wildly helpful because your brain is like, yeah, hey, I'm
doing it.
[01:15:14.00] - Speaker 2
I mean, I know for me, like, when I moved to Nice and I finally actually started using my French— I'd
studied it for 7 years— and you get there and you're like, uh, and you have to— it's a whole different
system of mechanics in your brain. Yeah, that have to get greased and you have to get used to it.
Neurons that have never fired before. Yeah, which is really helpful. And I think— but a lot of people
obviously can't just come to France and dedicate that time. They're not here. And I think one of the
best ways they can learn is through online classes.
[01:15:38.29] - Speaker 1
Yeah, it's great.
[01:15:39.17] - Speaker 2
Which is one of the reasons why it's really great that this episode's actually been sponsored by
Lingoda. Lingoda, which is a website that offers classes around the clock, 24/7. There's going to be a
teacher online ready to teach you, whether it's one-on-one or small groups. If you're a little bit scared
to go straight for the one-on-one, they've got assessments to know what level you're at. And right now
they're doing a sprint. It's 60 days. It opens up, classes start here in October. The last day to sign up is
October 13th, and then October 20th, they're launching it into it. If you do—
[01:16:09.08] - Speaker 1
That's my birthday.
[01:16:09.28] - Speaker 2
It's just, happy birthday.
[01:16:11.05] - Speaker 1
Thank you.
[01:16:11.19] - Speaker 2
I think it's also right around Paul's birthday. I should know Paul's birthday, but he's running, I think it's
the 11th that he's running a marathon. It all ties together. If you do 30 classes in 60 days, they'll give
you 50% cash back.
[01:16:23.17] - Speaker 1
That's pretty good.
[01:16:24.11] - Speaker 2
You do 60 classes in 60 days, they'll give you 100% cash back.
[01:16:28.12] - Speaker 1
That's wild.
[01:16:28.27] - Speaker 2
If you wanted to jump in and start learning, This is the way to do it. You can use the code JSPRINT50
to get €50 off your first payment. So you're already getting savings there, and then you can sprint
straight into learning French, which is really helpful because I think for me, I know that I've used— I
used Lingoda. I tried it out. It was really nice, really easy to get signed up, jump in. They have great
lesson plans and materials.
[01:16:51.20] - Speaker 1
Practice saying things because the pronunciation is important in French.
[01:16:56.26] - Speaker 2
And that's such a great French accent. Uh, and I think that's the funny thing.
[01:17:00.22] - Speaker 1
See how different it sounded?
[01:17:01.07] - Speaker 2
Totally wrong. You were speaking French. Tell me more. I think that's what's funny about it though, is
like, you don't, you don't actually know. It's, everybody's experienced this. You've only ever read a word
and you've never said it out loud. And then you say it out loud and somebody looks at you and they're
just like, what did you just say? It's really helpful and really important to have somebody who can
correct you in real time.
[01:17:22.00] - Speaker 1
It's like saying, can you cook? And you're like, no, but I have gone shopping.
[01:17:25.20] - Speaker 2
I have seen food before.
[01:17:27.02] - Speaker 1
It's the same thing.
[01:17:28.08] - Speaker 2
Words.
[01:17:28.17] - Speaker 1
You're just, you collected all the words now. cook.
[01:17:31.13] - Speaker 2
You got to string them together and see how they taste. Absolutely. No, I think that's the, the most
interesting thing about like real-time making an effort and having somebody there who's going to
catch you and change it. And I know my friend Natalie— I had a friend that she was so sharp on that
when we would speak French together and immediately would always correct me.
[01:17:49.17] - Speaker 1
That's cool.
[01:17:49.28] - Speaker 2
And a lot of people are scared of that kind of correction, but the reality is somebody jumps in there,
every time they correct you, you're gonna start hearing that correction before you say the thing.
[01:17:57.02] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:17:57.16] - Speaker 2
And you're gonna be like, oh nope, I don't want her to correct me.
[01:17:59.24] - Speaker 1
That's why it's important to have some friends that are mean sons of bitches.
[01:18:02.16] - Speaker 2
It's true.
[01:18:03.06] - Speaker 1
You gotta be friends with the son of a bitch because then that guy's gonna go wrong, wrong, wrong,
and he'll never get tired of telling you you're wrong.
[01:18:10.04] - Speaker 2
He won't tell you that. Yeah. And as long as he's right when he does it, you put in the calendar, you
start learning Thursday, meeting the son of a bitch. So if you want to put it in your calendar, make
sure you sign up before October 13th and get started October 20th. Get a sprint under your belt.
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[01:18:28.19] - Speaker 1
And if you don't wear belts, put it in your pocket.
[01:18:32.12] - Speaker 2
Hey, and now back to the show. I find the French to be incredibly welcoming. I think that the— my
experience has been in moving here, it's funny because I take big risks on the non-funny side, but
trying to explain French culture to Americans in general, the Anglophone world, but just trying to say,
hey, if you're coming here and you wanna have a good time, this is what you need to do. Or like, made
a bunch of videos that obviously you have like a contentious title 'cause you need people to click, but
never hopefully contentious content. But I wanna live up to the point. So it's like, French people don't
wanna— why French people don't wanna be your friend, or, you know, why you'll struggle to live here
and I don't, or things like that.
[01:19:09.08] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:19:09.08] - Speaker 2
And then explaining those elements of French culture that like, often I think sometimes French people
don't see it from the— obviously they don't see it from the same perspective because they don't have
my perspective. But the comments are often exactly what you're talking about, like very kind and
receptive and very, you know, like welcoming in the sense that they're like, you have pinned something
for me about my own culture that I was never aware of.
[01:19:31.06] - Speaker 1
Exactly.
[01:19:31.25] - Speaker 2
And so there's, there's very much an openness. I think the French are very open to critique. They
critique— they criticize themselves more than anybody criticizes them. And obviously if you come in
swinging, they're going to defend themselves and they're going to defend their country. But, you know,
like, they're in a discussion about politics, about culture, about all these things. Like, if you can just
demonstrate, I'm here to learn and this is what I have seen so far, they, they're very open to that kind
of conversation.
[01:19:57.16] - Speaker 1
I totally agree. And look, I mean, I also— I've been thinking a lot about it. So, and also, I'm a very
different— even though I'm a beginner in French comedy, I'm not a beginner in comedy. No. And I'm
not a beginner as a human being. I know who I am. And I'm very clear and specific about who I am,
and I think that also helps a lot. Maybe that's a cause for it, but I've never felt more welcome in any
place I've ever lived.
[01:20:21.14] - Speaker 2
That's a big statement.
[01:20:23.07] - Speaker 1
It's a huge statement, especially considering the reputation.
[01:20:26.29] - Speaker 2
Yeah, but that reputation— we were talking about this the other day. There's so many Americans who
come to Paris to make content, and I think a lot of times— I don't know how much of this is because
people are capitalizing on the myths or if they actually had a bad time, And you see it in some people's
content when they come to Paris, they have a bad time and they wanna tell you about it.
[01:20:41.25] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:20:41.28] - Speaker 2
And it's like, dude, you're just a jerk. People are good. Like, we have so much more in common than
we have that's different. French people are such warm, lovely human beings. There's just a cultural
barrier of like, manners matters here in a way that it does not matter in the States. And the way that
we go about initial, you know, greetings and everything else is pretty rigid. I have a friend who's very
American, but he was raised here and he is still to this day offended if you don't text him hello before
you continue the conversation. So like with my American friends, you just immediately jump into
wherever you left off. And with my French friends, like, no, you have to start with bonjour, salut. Yeah,
you know, you have to like start with something like that to get in there, or it starts things off on the
wrong foot, even after you've been friends for years. And even when they identify as American, you
know, it's, it's baked in there. So understanding those things first is all you need. It's the key to unlock
the door.
[01:21:31.04] - Speaker 1
100%.
[01:21:31.19] - Speaker 2
Once you're through that door, You find, yeah, you find a warm humanity.
[01:21:35.26] - Speaker 1
And if you don't like it, that's okay.
[01:21:37.14] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:21:38.03] - Speaker 1
You don't, you don't have to like it. I, in the world that we live in today, the meanness and selfishness
and narcissism, I quite like the contrast of politeness.
[01:21:49.19] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:21:50.11] - Speaker 1
I like it. I think it's nice. It bothers me when someone messages me, hey, what's this? And I'm like, no,
say hello.
[01:21:57.06] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:21:57.23] - Speaker 1
Don't, I don't, I don't like that either. I don't like the rudeness. I don't care how big of a rush you're in. If
you're asking me for something, I, I like a little bit of politeness. Yeah, be a human being. Yeah, slow
down.
[01:22:08.23] - Speaker 2
Well, and that's the, that's the cornerstone of it that I try to explain to people with French culture, is
that the, the root of like the, la bise or saying bonjour when you walk into a room or whatever is just
that moment where that you share. Yeah, where you see the human in front of you. It's just
acknowledging the person in front of you, and it's, it's a sign of respect. Yeah, it's a sign of actually
seeing the person. And then you can get right to business. Like, it's actually not— I find sometimes the
preambles we have in Anglo culture of like chatting and like, how's your day, how you doing, blah blah
blah, is actually takes you longer to get to what you want.
[01:22:41.05] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:22:41.14] - Speaker 2
Than the French politesse of like, we have a couple rituals, now what do you want?
[01:22:44.21] - Speaker 1
Yeah. I feel like I was a misplaced breed. Uh, yeah, because I never fit in in the States in the way that I
should have, considering that I spent the majority of my life there. Now, I understand that there is
such a thing as a honeymoon phase when you relocate to a new place, but I'm not, I'm not a newly
married person in that sense. I've lived in like almost 30 different countries. I've been around the
block.
[01:23:11.24] - Speaker 2
It's a lot of countries.
[01:23:12.14] - Speaker 1
Yeah, I've been a traveler for a very long time. I've not visited but lived in countries for a very long time,
and I've never— I've never— I know what it feels like now to be a square peg sliding into a square hole.
I'm like, oh, this is nice.
[01:23:27.26] - Speaker 2
No splinters here.
[01:23:29.14] - Speaker 1
Yeah, I'm like, oh, a round hole was obnoxious, you know? And now I'm like, this is— I, I really enjoy it.
Yeah. And of course France isn't perfect. Of course there's lots of problems here. Yeah, you know, but
every place has its problems. There's people that are like, oh well, you should see what France was
like before. I'm like, you should have seen what America was like before.
[01:23:48.01] - Speaker 2
Yeah, 100%.
[01:23:48.19] - Speaker 1
You know what I mean? So I think it's contextual, and I think it's up to you. Like, there's a really great
Chinese proverb or story that I like where there's these 2 guys in the desert leaving a town that burned
down.
[01:24:00.04] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:24:00.13] - Speaker 1
And they're walking past this old man and the first guy goes, hey old man, my town burned down, I'm
going to this next town, what's it like? He's like, depends, what was the town like you're from? And he's
all, people were pieces of shit and, uh, they're greedy. And so he's like, ah, bad luck, they're just like
that over there.
[01:24:15.10] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:24:15.23] - Speaker 1
And then the next guy comes, he's like, hey old man, what's this next town like? It depends, what was
the town like where you're from? He said, people were great, I loved it there, it was unfortunate that
the fire happened. He's like, you're in luck, town's just like that.
[01:24:25.09] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:24:25.21] - Speaker 1
And it's exactly right. I think part of the reason why I love France is also part of the life stage that I'm
in now. Maybe if I came here in my early 20s or something, France might've been harder for me.
[01:24:36.04] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:24:36.18] - Speaker 1
And, and I, it's, it's almost the opposite of clay where I was clay. You're more adaptable when you're
soft and then you feel like you get older and you get hard. And there's a lot of language around that.
You can't teach an old dog new tricks. I disagree.
[01:24:48.17] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:24:48.27] - Speaker 1
I think when you get older, you become more open-minded, especially if you travel.
[01:24:52.11] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:24:52.25] - Speaker 1
And because of being open-minded and experiencing so many different cultures, I feel like my clay is
actually softened, not hardened. And so because of that, I feel like I'm more adaptable in the culture
that I'm in now because I'm more curious.
[01:25:06.12] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:25:06.22] - Speaker 1
Now, and that curiosity I think is helping my comedy. And what it's taught me is that so many comics
focus on the punchline. But in reality, how you make fans is the premise. It's not what you— the last
word, but it's what are you trying to make funny.
[01:25:23.05] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:25:23.24] - Speaker 1
And I think the French appreciate that. I think, you know, that you have the history of salons where the
only time in French history where the food didn't matter.
[01:25:32.10] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:25:32.20] - Speaker 1
It was about the conversation.
[01:25:33.29] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:25:34.12] - Speaker 1
And that, that's a really beautiful thing, that people created an environment where they sought out
other people whose opinions were different than Yeah, just so they could come to not who wins, but
how do we both know more? Yeah, that, that is something in the world that we live in today, in the
bullshit that we see on social media where everyone's just trying to one-up each other and we're not
looking for the truth anymore. That's what the internet was supposed to be.
[01:25:59.20] - Speaker 2
We hope.
[01:26:00.09] - Speaker 1
Yeah. No one is googling for the truth. No, we're just looking for evidence to support their side.
[01:26:06.06] - Speaker 2
I think what you hit on exactly the root problem, which is that everywhere you go, there you are. And
so I think so often people think that, like with travel, with moving, with any of these things, they think
that it'll all be different if I can just move or if I go visit. And they forget that if they're miserable at
home, if everyone's a jerk at home, probably everybody's gonna be a jerk where they go.
[01:26:29.29] - Speaker 1
Yeah. Right.
[01:26:30.19] - Speaker 2
And breaking into a new scene, but maybe just making a space for yourself at home is what, what is
the point here? Like making it to the punchline, like that, that deliverable, that end goal, that like happy
ending forgets the fact that like, we got to go on a journey together, not to get into journeys, you know,
on us here, but like, there's so much about, about just— You talked about last time how you had a
couple of sets and you went back to back and the first one didn't go as well. And the second one, the
only thing you really changed was you said, hey, This is the second time I've ever done this in French.
[01:27:04.10] - Speaker 1
You told the truth.
[01:27:05.20] - Speaker 2
And we're on a ride together. And well, you didn't say that, but that's immediately what comes, right?
It's like, oh, we're on this ride together. And now everybody goes from being like, make me laugh,
funny man, to be like, oh my God, I hope he makes it. And that leaning in changes everything in that
premise. And I think this is what's been key for my— both my— what if we can call what I have a
career, both for my career and for my time in France. has been I've been very open with like, I— this is
what I'm— this is where I'm at, this is what I'm going through. And it's not sexy, and it's not like gonna
lead— I don't think it— like, it's not the aspirational story a lot of people are looking for to escape.
[01:27:42.07] - Speaker 1
But if I just interrupt you for one sec. Yeah, what you have is absolutely a career.
[01:27:46.19] - Speaker 2
I hope so.
[01:27:47.11] - Speaker 1
And not only is it a career, it inspires other people to try to do— it's more than a career.
[01:27:52.28] - Speaker 2
That's kind, thanks.
[01:27:53.24] - Speaker 1
Sorry, I have to interrupt and say that.
[01:27:55.24] - Speaker 2
You can interrupt.
[01:27:56.11] - Speaker 1
From someone who grew up with a bad dad, I can't let that go. That's insane. You would even, even
say that. Like, your career is incredibly inspiring, inspires so many people in this city.
[01:28:07.24] - Speaker 2
Thanks.
[01:28:08.05] - Speaker 1
It's okay.
[01:28:09.05] - Speaker 2
It's okay.
[01:28:10.09] - Speaker 1
We continue now. What the fuck? Can I say what the fuck?
[01:28:14.02] - Speaker 2
Yeah, of course. I mean, we're not bleeping anything in this. If they've made it this far, they know that
much. Um, but yeah, and that is, I think, but the foundation of it has been, and I had to do that for
myself. I had to get increasingly, like, not, not even just vulnerable, but transparent. And whether that's
with my tiny little audience that was along for that ride when I got here and grew into what it is now.
And I guess the, the real blessing of all of that is twofold. One, it does open doors. It makes
connection more possible with people because we can't connect with stone walls. You can't look at,
like, Hollywood superstars and feel connected. You might be attracted to them. You might—
[01:28:51.03] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:28:51.14] - Speaker 2
want what they have, but you're not gonna love them in a real way. And so much of what we do and so
much of what I want to build needs to be fueled by love, right? You talked about being fueled by love
last time as well and how much your work is. And that can only happen if you are open to proper
connection, and that requires the risk of being vulnerable and being honest about where you are.
[01:29:12.09] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:29:12.13] - Speaker 2
So for me, it's like being able to say, yeah, man, times are tight. Or like back when I went bankrupt, I
was so scared to share that. But then being able to do that means that, like, we're not on false
premises anymore.
[01:29:23.04] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:29:25.02] - Speaker 2
Sitting here chatting about changes and new adventures makes me reflect on my own adventure here
in Paris and some of my business decisions, many of which have been good, many have been
questionable. But one of the best that I ever made was spinning off all of my Paris recommendations
and videos about how to do Paris into its own separate brand, Paris in My Pocket. When people came
to my vlog for Paris advice and then would find a story about my life here, or maybe even me just
sitting there being like, I'm sad. It didn't really make a whole lot of sense. And so splitting those 2 into
separate things has been one of the best choices I've ever made. If you happen to be coming to Paris
for your first time, or maybe you're returning, my base guide is actually loaded with tons of articles on
how to get around, where to go, how to do the city if you happen to have mobility issues. That one's
free on our website at parisinmypocket.com, actually. So feel free to grab that from the blog. And in
that base guide comes what you might want regardless of how many times you've been to Paris, and
that is over 500 of my personal recommendations to the city of Paris when it comes to eating,
drinking, and having a good time.
[01:30:25.06] - Speaker 2
These are all places that I would go back to personally for one reason or another, and I try to be as
direct and honest as I can. And since it's behind a paywall, you know I can be as honest as I want to
be. And we're culling it regularly. We regularly check in and see which of these places deserve to be
there and which ones we should cut. And if you want to go even deeper, we have our Guide Plus,
which adds a bunch of pre-made itineraries so that you can pack in a day in the Marais, a day in
Montmartre, or perhaps a book lover's day walking through Paris between the Right and Left Bank. Go
to parisinmypocket.com right now, grab my guide, use the code GARAGEMONOLOGUES at checkout
for 10% off. And thank you so much for listening to my podcast. With that, let's get back to the
conversation.
[01:31:04.02] - Speaker 1
There's a book called The Artist's Way.
[01:31:07.05] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:31:07.27] - Speaker 1
And the first time I did it, each chapter is a week in your life. It's an exercise that you follow to become
more creative.
[01:31:13.21] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:31:14.07] - Speaker 1
And there's an exercise called morning pages where every morning you write these 3 pages. In the
beginning, I thought it was a creative tool, so I tried to be creative.
[01:31:20.27] - Speaker 2
Right.
[01:31:21.19] - Speaker 1
And it wasn't. Those 3 pages were supposed to be for you to complain.
[01:31:25.09] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:31:25.24] - Speaker 1
It's a diary to say, this person made me upset when they did that, this situation made me upset, that
made me angry, this made me sad, this made me scared, I think this is weird. And then when those 3
pages are finished, I created a ritual. I would write those 3 pages.
[01:31:41.21] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:31:42.10] - Speaker 1
And then I would rip them up and throw them in the trash. And then I would go write creatively.
[01:31:45.22] - Speaker 2
That's great.
[01:31:46.09] - Speaker 1
Because then I knew what was all the junk and the dead insects on my windshield. And doing that
exercise was like a windshield wiper clearing it, and then my creativity came out. I didn't realize when
someone was in a bad mood and then they sneezed their bad mood on me, then I caught the bad
mood. And then I was mean, and I can't create when I'm in a bad mood. I'm not open like that. I can
create after.
[01:32:11.21] - Speaker 2
I mean, if you joined a punk band, maybe it would be better for you.
[01:32:15.25] - Speaker 1
I also think, you know, it's funny, they say, um, tragedy plus time equals comedy. And I think that
means then the audience is ready. It's not about the audience. It's about the audience.
[01:32:24.13] - Speaker 2
100% about you.
[01:32:25.07] - Speaker 1
It's like, are you ready to talk about the tragedy in an honest way? Are you ready to be— that's the
time.
[01:32:30.25] - Speaker 2
I'm so deeply familiar with that, just without— again, outside of comedy. But like, so much of what I
have shared over the years has only been able to come when I've been ready. And like, my mom, I
didn't share until probably a year and a half, 2 years ago, start really openly sharing about like the, you
know, abusive situation that I grew up in and my mom being my antagonist in life. And that being a
light— I mean, it's an earned term. It's like, it's not— I'm not making light of it, to the point that for me,
like, and I wrote about this in the book that we just published, but like family is a bad word, right?
[01:33:06.25] - Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.
[01:33:07.26] - Speaker 2
Like, it's a dangerous word. Mothers are scary things, and I've had to really work through that. And
because that's not only entangled in like my sense of survival and like my childhood sense of being
completely isolated and scared, but it's then tied into being an adult and knowing that people idolize
their mothers and that family is all that matters if you believe Vin Diesel. And like, you know, and so
the last thing you wanna do is speak the heresy that is like, family's actually a terrifying and
dangerous thing in certain circumstances. It certainly was for me. And so it's the same reason why
I've been cautious in speaking about all kinds of different things, but taking that time to get there
where I feel secure enough in myself to speak out about that or to speak up about it and share my—
even just share my own story. I can imagine it's exactly the same thing. Like, if you get up on stage
and you share a joke about something you are still too raw about and it does not go well, or even if it
does go well, I can imagine you walk offstage shaking and not okay as a result.
[01:34:06.26] - Speaker 2
If you ever cross that line. But it's, it's a line that I know for me, it's like, oh, I should not have talked
about that, you know?
[01:34:12.05] - Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean, you go— once you go through enough of it, yeah, and you get past the fear, then you get
to a really beautiful place.
[01:34:20.08] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:34:20.20] - Speaker 1
Where nothing is wrong. You can question everything.
[01:34:24.13] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:34:25.02] - Speaker 1
But look, I mean, historically— I mean, it's funny that The Odyssey is out in the movie theaters right
now. Look at Socrates. Why did they kill Socrates?
[01:34:32.16] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:34:33.05] - Speaker 1
I love the whole philosophy of Socrates. He did— he said that we were born knowing everything and
society pulled it out of us. Yeah, so that learning is actually remembering. Yeah, and that's why when
people asked him questions, he would come back at them with questions because he wanted them to
remember the answer instead of him giving them the answer. Him teaching young people to question
is why they killed him. Yeah, and they loved him.
[01:34:58.20] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:34:59.16] - Speaker 1
Roman society loved Greek culture. They pulled it in towards— they didn't want to kill him. Yeah, but
just because he made them question. And I think that is— that still exists today. Yeah, the ability to
question is what we should be doing. Yeah, even questioning whether or not a family member is good
for us or not.
[01:35:18.20] - Speaker 2
Absolutely.
[01:35:19.15] - Speaker 1
We should be able to question, and the audience should be able to feel that they question. Once you
get to a certain level in comedy, you learn what Patrice O'Neal infamously said. Yeah, which is, it
doesn't matter if 100% of the audience likes you. What matters is if 10% of the audience fucking loves
you.
[01:35:38.29] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:35:40.03] - Speaker 1
It doesn't matter. It's not about everyone. No, it's about having a deep connection with a certain group
of people in that audience. Yeah, like gets you nowhere. Love and hate gets you everywhere. But I'm
just not the type of person to go towards hate. There's a lot of people that make great careers out of
that. Yeah, but I got to go towards love because I, you know, where I am in my life now, love is a— love
is a better fuel to me. Like, hate is nitrous. Yeah, it'll jump. It'll give you little jumps here and there, but
it'll break your engine. Yeah, the algorithm doesn't care if you're broken down the side of a road a year
from now.
[01:36:16.19] - Speaker 2
No, no, no. I mean, none of these platforms give two shits about any of us. Paul and I are talking more
about his career. We're talking about your transition into a new career. Uh, like, what? And then it's not
even that, it's the same career. It's just you just switched the subtitles on, you know? And so like, I
think I really want to get into the, the recent milestones that you hit, but what I keep thinking about is
how you guys have a very formalized way of engaging with your audience. You have like a set, like, no,
the goal is to get these people into a room. Uh, they buy tickets, I get on stage, we do our thing, and
that's it.
[01:36:49.20] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:36:49.27] - Speaker 2
Um, and then you're building a relationship with them over time in the sense that they, they get to
know you through social media more now than ever, but on stage you're sharing your stories, you're
really sharing yourself, and you get that 10% to love you. I know that I have a similar relationship with
my audience and the people that— there's, there's a 10% that are hardcore and that'll be there forever,
but there's not a formalized way of engaging with that right now.
[01:37:14.21] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:37:15.04] - Speaker 2
And so it's very much when we talk about the platforms not caring about us and increasingly maybe
even becoming antagonistic to us, as humans. They want their, their numbers, their metrics, their
profit margins, etc. They don't really care if we flourish as people. That actually is a concern for me
long-term because it's like, oh, but what happens when that goes away? Like, if, if Instagram and
Facebook and whatever went away tomorrow, you could still put up flyers and say, I'll be at this
theater.
[01:37:40.28] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:37:41.05] - Speaker 2
People will show up. I don't know what that looks like for me long-term. So when I ask if what I have is
a career, it's more based in that. It's It's like, okay, I'm a content creator, a writer, a YouTuber,
whatever. Um, but it does feel— it feels ephemeral. It feels like no matter what I build here, it could
literally just go away like that.
[01:37:58.16] - Speaker 1
I understand that feeling, but I think the numbers trick us a little bit.
[01:38:02.22] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:38:03.04] - Speaker 1
There's this old article a long time ago in Wired magazine— that's how old it was— and it said you
don't need 100,000 followers online, you need 1,000 in real life.
[01:38:11.10] - Speaker 2
Yes.
[01:38:11.19] - Speaker 1
To have a career. And I think there's a lot of truth to that. That's I think you need even less in other
places, but I think, I think your voice is a really thing— is a real thing. I think you've carved Jay
Swanson onto the digital pyramids. Yeah, you know, you've made your digital—
[01:38:28.17] - Speaker 2
So ephemeral, I guess. You know what I mean?
[01:38:30.04] - Speaker 1
And I think that, I think that's very real. Yeah, you know, and I see it when I walk around the city with
you. And, and it's not just that people go, hey, I know you. People are grateful to you. Yeah, I think, I
think that's a beautiful thing. I think for us to be able to talk about our lives in a very real way and to
question things in a real way and to come from a place of vulnerability and, and love and positivity, I, I
think has— I think we are the antidote to the algorithm.
[01:38:58.05] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:38:58.20] - Speaker 1
In a way. I'm not shitting on the algorithm, by the way, but I am shitting on its preferences.
[01:39:03.06] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:39:03.17] - Speaker 1
You know what I mean? Its preferences are negative. I see these, these guys who are experts giving
people advice going, yeah, if you're more negative, you'll get more followers. And I'm like, can you just
pause and think about what you just said?
[01:39:15.20] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:39:16.14] - Speaker 1
What? How is that good? Yeah, that's not good to— we don't need more negativity. No, it's the last
fucking thing I need.
[01:39:24.29] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:39:25.19] - Speaker 1
In my life is more negativity. So I think like we, we are— I'm glad that we're on this side of it, that we're
creating content and talking about the things that we love. As opposed to going places and going,
look how terrible this part of Paris looks, look how awful this part of India looks. It's like that. Yeah, it's
not hard to, to find the negative. Yeah, it's harder and more courageous to, to find the positive in life.
[01:39:50.03] - Speaker 2
So much of it comes down to like taking a minute to be grateful and then looking around like beauty is
everywhere. We live in such a beautiful world and there's a lot of horrible stuff happening, but I also
feel like so much of the overwhelming sense of negativity comes from this reinforcement of the cycle
we're living in where it's like negative content creates more engagement, more engagement creates
more money. We want more money, so we get more negative. And it— that, you know, so the more
time you spend scrolling, that's why we call it doom scrolling and not like, I feel better scrolling,
because what it's feeding you is intended to make you feel horrible. Because the more isolated you
are, the more lonely you are, the more angry you are, the more money they can extract from you. So
for me, this is why I try— like, I, I think I— this is one of the benefits of my neurodivergence is that I feel
the manipulation of the algorithm. So when TikTok came out, I rejected it because I was like, I do not
like how this is trying to control me. And I felt it.
[01:40:39.01] - Speaker 2
I want to be, um, informed. But I think this is that other thing that I, I often push back on. Some— I
have some friends that are like, well, you have to stay informed. And I'm like, you're— are you being
informed or are you being entertained?
[01:40:50.01] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:40:50.13] - Speaker 2
And is this entertainment destroying you in the name of information? So anyways, we're in this world
where like— but then people get offended when you're like, no, no, no, like We don't actually need this
much information.
[01:41:01.20] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:41:02.09] - Speaker 2
We are actually not drinking coffee today. We are being hosted generously by The Hood. We're in their
gallery upstairs. If you didn't know, if you come to The Hood in the 11th, it's a Southeast Asian
restaurant, Singaporean connection. They are part of a team called Block 65 that took, uh, Lindsay
and our friend Bulat and me to Singapore for quite the experience with the Singaporean Tourism
Board. And so if you want to come check out Siwan's art, he made a children's book You can get it in
French or English, but it's a children's story about a young boy and his eagle, and it's a true story. He
has photos and video that he used as reference for a lot of the paintings you see. It's a really, really
touching story. I got copies for my nephews. But then if you come to the Hood, they do have a bunch
of different really phenomenal options. Thanks to them for letting us use their space today. It is
August, so the spot that we were going to be last minute let us know they were going on vacation.
And, uh, Pearl at the Hood came through for us to give us this delightfully decorated sauna for us to
sit in.
[01:41:59.10] - Speaker 1
Turkish sauna. Are we gonna beat each other with leaves now?
[01:42:03.10] - Speaker 2
Is that how that works? Let's do it. Yeah, let's grab our leaves. What I do need to ask you about is the
current progress that you've been making on your milestones. So like, you, you, you, uh, have been
putting together— the goal recently was to put together a 10-minute show. and perform that in French
because you said that if you could accomplish that, then you would have attained a career in the
French comedy scene.
[01:42:25.25] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:42:26.07] - Speaker 2
Where are you at with that?
[01:42:27.26] - Speaker 1
I have my 10-minute set.
[01:42:28.29] - Speaker 2
You have your 10-minute set. Congratulations.
[01:42:31.14] - Speaker 1
Thank you.
[01:42:32.00] - Speaker 2
Yep.
[01:42:32.12] - Speaker 1
And then of course now it's August. Yeah, so, so many clubs are on pause, on vacation. So now I have
to find other ways to keep building. Yeah, and, and keep writing. But it's very interesting because I
think initially my idea was I was gonna learn like an opera singer. I think I mentioned this before,
where I was memorizing a language that I didn't know. It's not possible in comedy. So I think what I'm
learning is that the way to bring my set to life is not just learning the jokes, but learning what makes
me me in between the jokes.
[01:43:05.12] - Speaker 2
Okay.
[01:43:06.02] - Speaker 1
What are the things that I say that connect the jokes, and how do I tell my story? And I'll tell you, man,
you know, 17 years in comedy in New York, I didn't examine and deconstruct comedy the way I am
now.
[01:43:19.00] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:43:19.21] - Speaker 1
I'm watching my own tape, real videos, in a way that I would have never watched it if I stayed in New
York.
[01:43:26.21] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:43:27.08] - Speaker 1
You know, when I have an idea in English, I could just walk right up onstage and say it.
[01:43:31.05] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:43:31.15] - Speaker 1
And I don't get to do that in France. I have to be more mindful of facial expressions, body language.
You know, I watch shows like Cesar Millan: The Dog Whisperer, And he talks about how your body
language is a language to dogs, but it's also a language to human beings. So the way that I walk, the
way that I talk, the way that I stand, what am I wearing— there's just the detail that I'm getting into now
is, in a way, it makes me feel like a beginner again.
[01:44:02.22] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:44:03.14] - Speaker 1
And I feel like it's making my comedy more complex and more thoughtful. And it is the antithesis of
the algorithm, which is just produce, produce, produce, produce. I feel like the algorithm is saying,
make grape juice, and I'm like, no, I'm more interested in wine. And it's gonna take a little bit more
time, but I am taking my time. 10 minutes is to get my foot in the door and to start doing all the clubs
in the scene. And I hope that August, for me— it's funny, because the French say August is almost like
see you after summer, like when you go back to school.
[01:44:35.17] - Speaker 2
Oh, absolutely, yeah.
[01:44:36.14] - Speaker 1
And I feel like— I think I'll be able to come back from this summer break with a growth spurt. Yeah.
And people are like, wow, Tamer has boobs now.
[01:44:43.15] - Speaker 2
Yeah, he made it. He finally has them.
[01:44:45.09] - Speaker 1
He's a woman. You know what I mean? Like, he's a real lady. Or I could have used a man in that
metaphor.
[01:44:50.18] - Speaker 2
Well, you can use whatever gender you want. Nobody's judging. But how do you— what was the— tell
me about the 10 minutes, because I think you, you carved it out in Marseille. Was that where you—
[01:44:59.06] - Speaker 1
Yeah, I mean, Marseille, um, I found a club in Marseille the way— it's really interesting. It was almost
like a dating website.
[01:45:04.20] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:45:05.14] - Speaker 1
I was researching all the clubs. Again, something that I never had to do in America.
[01:45:09.13] - Speaker 2
PlentyOfComics.com.
[01:45:10.03] - Speaker 1
Um, yeah, yeah. But as I was researching the clubs, I found The Garage, um, which is an incredible
club run by this really cool, uh, dude named, uh, Quentin Freiburger.
[01:45:20.21] - Speaker 2
Okay.
[01:45:21.19] - Speaker 1
German-French-Indonesian mix.
[01:45:23.22] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:45:24.11] - Speaker 1
Like even more mixed than me.
[01:45:25.17] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:45:25.27] - Speaker 1
But a real love of the craft and the art of comedy. And the things that they said in their videos and they
talked about comedy in their podcast made me go, hey, these guys, I really like the way these guys
speak about comedy. And I sent him a message and we got on the phone, and the first time we
talked, we spoke for like 2 and a half hours.
[01:45:43.02] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:45:43.14] - Speaker 1
And we really clicked, and he believed in what I wanted to do, and he said, come to Marseille. And so I
went to Marseille, and I think the first week there I did like 6 spots in 2 nights.
[01:45:53.08] - Speaker 2
Great.
[01:45:53.20] - Speaker 1
5 in French, and then the last night I got to perform in English.
[01:45:57.04] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:45:57.13] - Speaker 1
And here's the interesting thing.
[01:45:58.24] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:45:59.07] - Speaker 1
about the level of detail that I'm starting to research in order to be able to perform in French. Yeah, it's
improving my English.
[01:46:05.16] - Speaker 2
Yeah, how so?
[01:46:07.02] - Speaker 1
Just an awareness. Yeah, you know what I mean?
[01:46:09.24] - Speaker 2
Like, I'm just so much more aware of your facial expressions, of your boobs, like everything that's
going on.
[01:46:15.27] - Speaker 1
Everything. Yeah, no, I noticed people would watch comedy— people are watching comedy like this
now. They're looking at comedians' faces this close. Yeah, and a lot of us are performing as if we're
still way over there on a Yeah, and so there are things that matter now that mattered in silent films
that comedians have never studied.
[01:46:34.05] - Speaker 2
Interesting.
[01:46:34.29] - Speaker 1
Have never studied. Yeah, but those things have actually been a big part of French comedy for a long
time. Yeah, people forget that comedy is not new. Stand-up comedy as an art form is. Yeah, they put
the leash around it and gave the dog a name, but comedy and storytelling has existed for a long time.
And I say that to French comics all the time, have audacity.
[01:46:55.27] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:46:56.24] - Speaker 1
Say it. Say, I'm the best. Be the best. There is no reason in the world that people living in this city
should have a favorite comic who doesn't live in this country.
[01:47:07.11] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:47:07.18] - Speaker 1
There's no reason.
[01:47:08.12] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:47:08.22] - Speaker 1
There's absolutely no reason. Your favorite comic should be able to talk about the world that you live
in, the city that you live in, the culture that you live in, in a way that no visiting comic can.
[01:47:18.20] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:47:19.11] - Speaker 1
And, and so I told them, just have the audacity to say it. And just because America invented it doesn't
mean that they have to be the best at it. England invented soccer.
[01:47:28.04] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:47:29.05] - Speaker 1
They are not the best anymore.
[01:47:31.02] - Speaker 2
Sorry.
[01:47:31.25] - Speaker 1
I think it's the same thing with stand-up. America invented— whatever that means— invented stand-
up. Don't get me wrong, I am so glad that I learned comedy where I learned comedy, but I think what
my comedy is going to become now is gonna be because I have the same amount of respect and
curiosity about the culture that I live in now.
[01:47:52.08] - Speaker 2
Yeah, absolutely. How was your time in Marseille?
[01:47:56.17] - Speaker 1
Okay. You know, here's the thing. I come from rough neighborhoods.
[01:48:03.02] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:48:03.26] - Speaker 1
And I don't like the YouTubers who kind of go out of their way to be like, oh, this city sucks, and look
how dangerous it is, and look how this is. It's like, look, it's a big city.
[01:48:13.18] - Speaker 2
Yep.
[01:48:14.05] - Speaker 1
Keep your head on a swivel.
[01:48:15.20] - Speaker 2
Yep.
[01:48:15.27] - Speaker 1
It's your job when you're in a big city to pay attention.
[01:48:18.10] - Speaker 2
Yep.
[01:48:18.17] - Speaker 1
That's your job. Inevitably, I was leaving a show on my way to the, the show before last, and I was
running to the 3rd show the same night. 3 shows in 1 day.
[01:48:29.24] - Speaker 2
Right, okay.
[01:48:30.09] - Speaker 1
I was running to the 3rd show, and as I was walking down the street, somebody threw a curveball at
me that kind of threw me off. He goes, hey, I know you. So I immediately thought, oh, because of
comedy or because of social media, right? So I think I, uh, my guard was down.
[01:48:45.20] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:48:46.09] - Speaker 1
And because I said be nice.
[01:48:48.00] - Speaker 2
Yep.
[01:48:48.21] - Speaker 1
To someone. And, uh, this dude just goes, hey, where are you from? And I'm like, yo, I'm Egyptian. But
he was getting really close to me. He's like, oh, Egyptian? I'm Moroccan, blah blah. And I'm like, okay,
cool, cool. And I'm like, dude, I'm sorry, I gotta go. And then he goes, Egyptian? Oh, salaam. And then
he put his arm around my shoulder and did like this little kick from behind.
[01:49:08.02] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:49:09.03] - Speaker 1
As if like he was playing soccer. And then I was like, what's he doing? And then I felt him pull my
necklace off. Ironically, the necklace that he pulled was my dad's Golden Gloves. And when he pulled
it off—
[01:49:22.17] - Speaker 2
Should have been a warning.
[01:49:23.21] - Speaker 1
Yeah. I grabbed his wrist.
[01:49:26.05] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:49:26.10] - Speaker 1
And then I just looked at him and we made eye contact, and then I saw fear in his face. And then with
the hand that I was holding—
[01:49:33.02] - Speaker 2
Yep.
[01:49:33.12] - Speaker 1
I punched him in the face.
[01:49:35.21] - Speaker 2
Wait, with his own hand?
[01:49:37.07] - Speaker 1
With my fist. I was holding his with the hand.
[01:49:39.24] - Speaker 2
Yeah, I did not know that detail.
[01:49:42.19] - Speaker 1
So obviously I didn't hit him that hard, but I hit him direct.
[01:49:45.29] - Speaker 2
Oh my God. Yeah.
[01:49:47.02] - Speaker 1
And like, so of course, and his eyes got watery. His friend had—
[01:49:50.29] - Speaker 2
I think his friend was looking at him like, why him?
[01:49:53.14] - Speaker 1
Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, not that guy, you know? And then his friend had taken off already,
but then To tell you the truth, I've always been ashamed of my anger.
[01:50:03.03] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:50:03.20] - Speaker 1
In a way, because I'm not proud of it. And I'm especially not proud when I lose control, because I don't
want to be— I don't want to be like some of the guys who come from where I come from.
[01:50:16.13] - Speaker 2
Right.
[01:50:17.02] - Speaker 1
And I don't want to project that. I don't want to be that. I want to be under control of it.
[01:50:21.29] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:50:22.20] - Speaker 1
And when I— he kept my necklace behind his back even after I hit him in the face.
[01:50:29.02] - Speaker 2
Really?
[01:50:29.08] - Speaker 1
And I go, give me my necklace. And then he just like looked at me and I go— and then I yelled. It was
almost like a growl. Yeah, give me my fucking necklace. And as soon as I said it, like everyone in the
street like turned and was looking at us.
[01:50:43.17] - Speaker 2
Yeah, of course.
[01:50:44.09] - Speaker 1
So, and then he goes, here. And he goes, oh, just to recall, like, I was just kidding, I was just kidding.
[01:50:49.29] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:50:50.00] - Speaker 1
And I'm like, yeah, give me— and they gave me my necklace.
[01:50:52.06] - Speaker 2
Real funny joke, bro. Yeah.
[01:50:53.11] - Speaker 1
And then I was like, And I had this feeling of shame. And then people came up and they're like, are you
OK? And then this old man goes, he's horrible! Il est horrible! And I'm like, je suis d'accord. Yeah, you're
right. He is. And then I went straight to the club.
[01:51:12.03] - Speaker 2
Yeah. That'll jack you up before a show.
[01:51:14.12] - Speaker 1
Which is funny. And, um, and it was— I was really happy with the way I went from that state to that,
like how quickly I brought it back down. and was able to, like, go back into a calm state. But it's a
weird thing to feel shame over rage.
[01:51:31.15] - Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, we talked about this right after it happened. You were telling us the story, and I know
that it was weighing on you. Um, and I'll say what I said then, too, which is that your reaction is
completely warranted in a situation where somebody not only assaults you, but, like, betrays a sense
of trust. Like, they manipulate you into a situation where your guard is down, They're trying to use
whatever bridge they have with you culturally and otherwise, and then they're trying to steal your stuff.
[01:51:58.19] - Speaker 1
It breaks my heart that he was Arab.
[01:52:00.13] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:52:00.24] - Speaker 1
I hate to say it.
[01:52:01.18] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:52:02.03] - Speaker 1
It breaks my heart. It breaks my heart that he even used him being Moroccan and me being Egyptian
as a point of connection and then used it to steal from me.
[01:52:11.19] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:52:11.27] - Speaker 1
I'm like, how dare you?
[01:52:13.00] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:52:13.16] - Speaker 1
How fucking dare you?
[01:52:14.04] - Speaker 2
It's violating.
[01:52:15.02] - Speaker 1
It's very violating. And these— what these guys don't realize, and I've said this to guys that are kind of
like hard-headed street fighter guys, where I said, listen, you might think you're the toughest guy in the
street.
[01:52:24.05] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:52:24.17] - Speaker 1
But you are not tough. You, you can't be around your mom 24/7.
[01:52:29.27] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:52:30.12] - Speaker 1
But when you act like a, like a piece of merd, other people are gonna think that Arabs are bad.
[01:52:36.23] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:52:37.07] - Speaker 1
And other people are gonna treat your mom bad, and you're not gonna be there.
[01:52:40.06] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:52:40.21] - Speaker 1
So you might think you're the toughest dude in the street, but your behavior affects your mom, affects
your sister, affects my mom.
[01:52:46.18] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:52:47.05] - Speaker 1
affects people in the— you do more to make people racist towards our culture than any racist could
do.
[01:52:54.17] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:52:54.29] - Speaker 1
And shame on you, man.
[01:52:57.03] - Speaker 2
Shame.
[01:52:57.23] - Speaker 1
It really hurts my heart because, you know, when people talk about Arabs in the news, or especially
North Africans, I think of my uncle and my aunt and people who loved me and hugged me and made
my favorite food.
[01:53:10.02] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:53:10.13] - Speaker 1
And unfortunately for a lot of people, they think about guys like that.
[01:53:13.10] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:53:14.02] - Speaker 1
And, and I hate that that's the eclipse that goes in front of my sun. You know, it's the black circle that
goes in front of my warmth.
[01:53:21.27] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:53:22.15] - Speaker 1
And, and I wish those guys would understand that, that, that hurts your own people more than the
cost of 50 necklaces.
[01:53:31.02] - Speaker 2
Yeah. Well, and this brings it back to home. And maybe to end on this note is that idea that what
you're trying to do here is connect with the people that are in front of you and to bring a better sense
of community around the experience you're having. I want to do what I can to bring, to add value and
to do the same thing to support my local community. And if we can reach other people, inspire other
people, connect with other people outside of that, that we can have a bigger impact, that'd be great.
[01:53:58.12] - Speaker 1
But it makes sense, right? Like if life is a marathon, yeah, I don't want to be on the side of the road
holding up a sign going, doesn't this suck? Yeah, this is hard, right?
[01:54:07.10] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:54:07.29] - Speaker 1
It's like, no, it is much more human. Yeah, to be like, I know it's hard, you're doing great.
[01:54:13.00] - Speaker 2
Yeah, keep going, keep it up.
[01:54:14.23] - Speaker 1
And we, we are sleeping giants. Yeah, there is no government in the world, there's no politician in the
world that is more powerful than we are collectively. Yeah, and that's why they spend all this money
and brainpower and influence to try to separate us.
[01:54:28.07] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:54:28.21] - Speaker 1
And for anybody in any field that is doing anything to try to connect people, I'm on their team. Yeah,
that's my new race, the race of connection.
[01:54:39.02] - Speaker 2
Absolutely. Yeah, well, we're gonna check in with you after la rentrée, the return to school, see how
you do with your 10-minute show.
[01:54:46.18] - Speaker 1
I'm excited, man.
[01:54:47.15] - Speaker 2
I'm excited for you. I gotta come, I gotta come see this 10-minute show now, now that it's there and
I'm not, I'm not sitting there pressuring you from the crowd. Uh, it'll be really exciting to see it.
[01:54:57.06] - Speaker 1
Thanks, man. I'm excited to have you there.
[01:54:59.11] - Speaker 2
It'll be great.