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A conversation about cars, trucks, tugs and other machines of transport that flows like an ADHD fever dream, hosted by Hoonigan co-founder and 321 Action Action director Brian Scotto. Enjoy, it’s gonna be a bizarre ride.
S4 E25 Audio
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[00:00:00] And we're back with another episode of Firing Order. As always, I'm your host, Brian Scotto. This is the kickoff of season four, and our topic today, over-hyped hero cars. That's right, cars that once you meet might not be so great. And to debate this, we have none other than Matt Farah and our now reoccurring guest, Vin Anatra.
We get into it. We all have very different lists. This is a fun one. Enjoy
Welcome, boys. Welcome back, Vinny. Thank you, Matt, for coming down and slumming it here at our makeshift podcast studio He spent the basically past half an hour just looking at it judgingly Just going, "I know." We got a real [00:01:00] podcast professional here. This is a re- this is our first real- Okay ... real podcaster.
Really? He's got, like, podcast chairs. He's got, like, a podcast desk. He's got- Matt's also been doing- He's got s- he's got sound deadening. Um, he has air conditioning in his studio. I'm on episode 1,200. I was gonna say, Matt, Matt has been doing podcasts since literally every jamoke has a podcast now. Yeah, I know.
Po- I mean- When did you start? What year? 2010. Wow. Yeah. Podcasting in 2010 or YouTube? Podcasting. Wow. No, YouTube was '06. Oh, that's right. He, he- Your YouTube story is insane ... '06. Bro, he- My YouTube is- ... he is an OG YouTuber ... my first YouTube videos are in 240p and shot on cassette. And not- They were ... not, not monetized.
And, and pre- Pre-monetization ... pre-DMCA. Yeah. You cannot file a takedown for my use of Pearl Jam on that video. It's still there. Wait, is that grandfathered in? Yeah. Oh. It's pre Digital Music Copyright Act. Wow. I was u- I was using Stone Temple Pilots and Pearl Jam and shit in videos. But that was when YouTube was great, man.
That was when... YouTube was a different world when you could just- Yeah, that- ... steal other people's [00:02:00] music ... 240p life, dude. 'Cause that was also when most of what other YouTube was was people just pirating everything. Yeah. It was just uploading all the things that were not available on YouTube. Yeah. It was great.
Wild. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Early- It's true ... early YouTube. You know me and him go back that long. Yeah. Past that. Yeah. No, ba- no, essentially to that- No, no ... to that point ... right, right before that. To that point. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, 'cause you were, you were running or... I, I don't actually know what you were doing, but GPNY, which was the karting track.
The karting track. I don't know if you ran it. I just knew that for a larger sized man, you were, like, un... Like, it just, it didn't make sense how fast you were. Okay, here's why. Like, and I'll give you that. There's so- 'Cause we would show up and I'd be like, "Look at this dude," and then he would whoop us, and I'd be like, "Oh, boy."
So yeah, so I was the fastest fat guy in that area. So, uh, Grand Prix New York opens. It's the best go-kart track in the area. I used to go there too. I placed fourth. It's amazing, right? So Nat Mundy, who started it, hired me to make a TV commercial for them in, like, the first month I was making YouTube videos, and we made it, me and Tom, and it aired.
And in [00:03:00] exchange for getting... Instead of getting paid, he traded lifetime unlimited karting. Yo, that's sick. And so I started showing up. Does it still exist? Yes. I started showing up every day after work. I, I, I didn't travel like I do now. How far, how far were you from there? 10 minutes. Oh, insane. I, I lived in Harrison.
Yeah, I would do that too. I lived in Harrison. It was right up the road. Oh. Every day, two to three hours of karting a day after work, and then they started a karting league, and I won the over 200 pound class by, like, Schumacher level gapping the people. And I was also the heaviest, and so they had to weigh everyone up to me, and then I destroyed everybody.
No way. It was so fun. I love that. I love that. You- You were like, "You thought you were getting a good deal? I am decimating this." I started dating the bartender at that place 'cause I would have dinner there, like, every night. It was crazy. The amount of free karting I took out of that place. I mean, that's how I know you.
You're, you were, like, the GPNY guy. I remember like when like, when like one of the first Drive shows you did, was it Fahrenheit? Was that what, which [00:04:00] show was- Garage 419 ... Garage 419, that's it. Yeah. And, uh, I remember when you first did that, I'm like, "Oh, it's the karting guy from GPNY." Yeah. That's crazy. My arms were like The Rock.
I, from just like s- just const- it was great. Insane. I love that. Good times. Shout out to GPNY. It's still there. Yeah, yeah. Anyway. Good days. Good days. All right. Just, just to let you guys know Matt hasn't lost it, we did an event- Although he, what he has lost is weight. Look at that. Yeah, I'm lighter now than I was then.
He's looking slim. He's great. I would definitely not want to go up against him now. Matt smoked all of us, including Hamster Hands Ron Zaras at Autocross. Oh, yeah. Where at? An Honda Elantra N. Oh, the Honda. Yeah. At Laguna. Yeah. The Elantra N. Matt smoked us all at Autocross, sleeper over here. I technically, I said to Ron, "If I beat you with this, I'm taking your seat at Pikes Peak."
And he didn't give it up, but And, and, and Ron can't say that he's not that good at autocross, 'cause he was like the cone king of Long Island, New Jersey He's good, dude. Press c- press launch autocross is a specialty of his. We talk about this all the time. I smoked Ken at a, at a... [00:05:00] I smoked Ken at an autocross for the Fiesta ST, and he was mad.
And I was like, "You don't understand," 'cause at this point I was only, like, six months removed from being an auto journalist. I was like, "My entire life is driving such wack cars." Like Caliber SRT4s at speed in a parking lot around cones. Like, this is my wheelhouse. This is my WRC. Yeah. Bro, I did autocross in a rented BMW Z4, like, three days ago.
Sick. Did you, like, Toro it? I put up numbers, dude. Enterprise, Enterprise Dream Collection. Oh my God. It's all good. Amazing, amazing. So what are we doing today, Brian? All right, so episode of Firing Order, and we are going to t- we are going to list, I guess you would say probably the most over-hyped hero cars, or at least the ones we've had experience in.
Yeah. So these are cars, like poster cars. These are cars that people just wax on about, about how great they are, and we've driven a lot of [00:06:00] those, and it's like, what, what are, what are the ones that maybe just don't really belong on a list? I'm so excited for this. Yeah. And I, I... They- Shitting on stuff is fun My favorite.
Shitting, shitting on popular things is YouTube gold. Well, do, do you host this? Uh, yeah, and not just that- ... but I wanted to bring you two on because I've had the conversation with you a lot, which is like, "This car just isn't as good as we remember it being- Right ... or as people make it out to be," and you just generally are good at shitting on things.
So I figured this would be a good combination. You've also driven probably- A lot of things ... way more cars than we have at this point. So many things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. You've driven a lot at this point. Let's, let's, let's share- So we're gonna let- I, yeah, we gotta get into... I'm so excited to hear Matt's list.
I gotta get in here. So the way it's gonna work is you're gonna have your three, we'll take one from yours, your three, my three, and then we're gonna go into the- Yeah ... to the greater list. Hell yeah. Okay. Let's get it. This one, personal experience. Uh, folks our age will probably get it more than the younger folks, but the DeLorean.
Yes. It's a, it's an obvious one, but it, but it's an obvious one for a reason. Uh, the Ferrari SF90- [00:07:00] Okay ... uh, which I consider to be the most boring 1,000 horsepower car I've ever driven. And- That is such a wild statement. And, uh, the, uh, worst supercar of all time, the Mercedes SLR McLaren. Nice lineup. Yeah.
Good, good lineup. Strong. Strong. That is an awful car. Strong. Yeah. W- just so we're clear, the SLR McLaren is that really r- like, looks like- The long 13L ... the really long nose, right? Yeah, it's bad. Yeah, with the, with the flip- The pencil dick. The pencil dick ... with the flip doors. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I've actually driven that, so I can speak on that, too.
What, what engine is that? Is that the 6.2- It's a supercharged ... 6.2, 6.2 super- Five and a half. Okay. Yeah. Five and a half supercharged, and I think it's 617 horsepower. Yeah. The engine isn't the problem. No, it's the slushbox- It's all- ... automatic transmission that belongs- Yeah, yes ... in, like, a truck. And the mushiest brakes ever- Mm
and the cassette deck, and just everything. Just everything else. I was ru- I, for the most random of reasons, I had it at Irwindale, and w- was doing drag runs with it- Mm ... and overheated the transmission four runs. This might be unpopular opinion- ... but I also think [00:08:00] no Mercedes from that era sounds good. They all are, like, farty V8s.
The SLR with the side pipes is particularly farty. It's just, like, even the- When you hear it from the side, it's very farty ... even the AMG GT, GT3 cars, the race cars, sound bad. Like, they just have this, like, real boat V8 noise. Like, they just sound like they're revving to, like, 3,600 max, and they just, like, they don't sound good.
But, but then at the same time, you do have the C63. Doesn't sound good. I think the 63 sounds good. I think the C63 sounds good. I think '63 engine sounds good. How about, like, the CLK DTM? That's, like, not a real car That's a five and a- that's the same five and a half supercharged. But you could, you could buy that.
Could you? Yeah. So I don't really like the way the C63 sounds either. I think it's just, like, a very barky, generic V8. Like, it's one of those cars that- I just can't even ... like, you have that car and the E90 M3 going neck and neck, and nobody cares about the, the C63 for obvious reasons. It just kind of sucks.
[00:09:00] Sound-wise? Everything about it. I think the sound of the M3 is better, and the gearbox is better- Oh, I don't- ... and the steering is better ... everything. That's- The, the Mercedes has, like, one good redeeming quality, which is that- It does burnouts It does burnouts. It's... Yeah, that's... Yeah. Very good burnouts. It does burnouts because Mercedes cheaped out and put a wide body front end-
and then was just like, "Nah, we don't need to do the rear. Enjoy your 235s on the back." That's true. There's- You know? That's true. That's true. That car- That's true ... to me is just as whatever as it gets. Well- Like, you got it because you were like, "I don't want a BMW, 'cause I'm... You know, I'm not a BMW guy." And then you get some lesser junk.
I, I don't think it's for... Like, I don't think you could shop the two of those cars in its era, because the M3 was just a better performance car. The E- like, the E63 is a better, like, hooligan's car. Like, it's good for shitheads. For the record, for the record, I brought up a specific make and model of car- Th-
and you guys have just generalized across- We branched out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah ... not just, not just that engine- Okay, let's- ... in other cars, but, like, the whole range- The whole range ... of models that this company has made. So you haven't listened to this show, have you? So... Right. All right, cool. [00:10:00] Yeah. We don't know.
I just want to know. Remember, you said you don't know about anything. I didn't- You're dealing with real idiots here. Okay? I was thinking- All right, pal ... specific ... make, make, make, make your argument on the, uh, on the long dick, uh, SLR. On why it's overrated? Yeah. I- Okay. It's, it's... My argument- But do you think it's a hero car?
Yeah. For some people. Are you kidding? Oh, yeah. Really? Oh, okay. It's got doors that do- Fucking do this, you know? And th- they're, like, investment grade for some reason. They're appreciating in value. Hmm. And I don't know why that is. You know what? They shouldn't be, 'cause they're not good. You know what I would rather talk about?
The SF90. Wait. Okay. Okay. But, but I wanna get... Let, let's finish this one out, 'cause I actually think that hip-hop had a lot to do with the production of that car. 'Cause that car was, like, a rapper's cover car. I know this, 'cause in that era- ... I worked at Robb Report. You were covering rappers. I was covering rappers in that kind of car.
Yeah. Uh- Like, it was... It just looked cool. It did, and sound, sounded cool. Right. It, the doors opened the right direction for rappers. It sounds like that's where it ended. It was- It was, like, super... It was supercar theater if you were really just driving it in [00:11:00] traffic- Yeah ... most of the time. It, it did start the turn of supercars that needed to be daily driver- Yeah
cars. Hmm. Which is, like, makes supercars worse, actually. Yeah, 100%. Do you remember, like, the... Do you remember when that car came out, they tried really hard to tie it to the Sir Stirling Moss story? Yes. Like, that was, like, a, like... Everybody who wrote about it, like, was mentioning that. Okay, counterpoint, the version that has no windshield is good.
Oh, really? Is good. Yes, because there's just a silly amount of theater, and it makes the car, like, worse enough that it's more special. Well, see, that... So what you just said is really interesting, and I think it segues well to the SF90, is, like, making a supercar more daily-able makes it worse. Yes. So that's why I'm, like, really interested to hear, 'cause I've never driven one of those, but I have literally no interest in them at all.
The SF90? Yeah. Yeah. This is probably gonna be problematic, because I'm going on the launch for the 849 Spider in, like, eight days. So if I cr- I crap on the predecessor of this car on this show, and it goes up before the 27th- ... [00:12:00] this may be problematic. I, I think you might just miss it. This may be problematic.
Just. Well, I, well, you know what? Tell us why. So, like, well, the SF90... And I drove it three years ago when, when it came out. And wait, and let me, let me preface this by saying you're not the only person with this opinion, and here's how I know. The prices of SF90s went from- Oh ... like, near a million dollars to, like, $200,000- Yeah, yeah, yeah
in the last year. Yes. So- If you bought one new, you got absolutely hosed on it. And then if you bought one- Secondhand ... even- You got even worse hosed. Woo. Yeah, they like- Hm ... surged in price, and now they have crumbled Yeah. If you bought an SF90 in 2022 on the flip, you are deeply upside down on it. Like 2X.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So forget the, forget the... The values, I think, reflect that the market realizes this isn't a great car. Yeah. It's, it's just like, it's what Ferrari thought everybody would want. And it's what, it is what people want from a Bentley. Mm. It's not what people want from a Ferrari. It's a [00:13:00] Newport Beach Ferrari.
It's heavy. It's meant for, like, traffic and, like- It's meant for traffic. It makes 1,000 horsepower, but deploys it in a way that is not particularly interesting. And in fact, the less powerful 296, in certain situations, will beat it- Mm-hmm ... in the quarter mile. Um, it the 296 came out afterwards for half the price, and if you aren't, like, literally an expert, you cannot tell those two cars apart.
No, I wouldn't even know. I mix them up sometimes, and I am an expert. Um, the hybrid system is very finicky, uh, and Ferraris are already known for kinda that. Although, they had largely solved... Like, like, the 458 range of cars is incredibly -- 458 to 488 to F8, like, those are reliable cars. Yeah. They're, not just in the context of Ferrari, those are, like, objectively very reliable cars.
Yeah, you can daily drive those- Yes ... and it's great. They have tons of miles on them, and they work fine, and they don't... Like, the i- like, the iPhone connectivity is the [00:14:00] biggest issue that people have with those cars. Which is fine. I'm okay with that. Which is okay. Um, but not these. These are issues. And, and so it's heavy.
It doesn't feel athletic in the corners the way either an F8 or a 296 feels. It has electric range, which, who the hell wants to spend 800 grand on a Ferrari to drive around in electric? Mm. Which, you know, we'll see, uh, soon enough what happens there. But, um, but it just doesn't do the thing that I want from a Ferrari.
It, you have to pay a huge amount of money for the privilege, and the, the resulting car is very, very disappointing. And if you think- Which is interesting, because I felt like, uh, slight deviation from the topic, but um, a lot of these modern supercars, um, think, like, MC20- Mm-hmm ... 296, all these cars, if you were...
I'm always like, if you blindfolded me and I drove them or I was in them, you couldn't tell the difference. Right. Like, they all are, like, precise- comfortable, fast- Yeah ... [00:15:00] but, like, they have no personality. They're just, like, fast car. Last week I went through Road & Track's listing of, like, the fastest hypercars- Yeah
that came out in December, right? Um, I didn't recognize the name of half the cars on the list. Really? Right? And now your, see, your, you live in it, right? Yeah, yeah. So, like, you're living in it- I probably would at least recognize them, but yeah ... no, but like, you live in the business of it, and when I was a journalist, I knew every spec of every different supercar.
I just don't think they matter as much anymore, and this is, like, a whole other conversation, but like, I'm like, "Oh, I didn't know they made a new version of that. Oh, and it does that now?" Yeah. "Okay, great." Where, like, to me, I think the Bugatti Veyron was, like, the end of supercars mattering on, like, a really big hero car level.
Because a- and there are cars that do 300 miles an hour now, and I'm like, "I didn't even know that existed." It's weird. We, we, y- I think that w- kind of like that, kind of like you, whereas, like, I'm not that interested in this car goes 300 instead of 290. But you're way more interested in the supercar. I mean, have you seen the shitboxes I drive?
Sure. No, I know, I know. I am. But, [00:16:00] uh, but, but more importantly, like, despite what the three of us old people- Yeah ... now think, like, kids under 21 are obsessed with hypercars. Mm. Like, they just are. The way that you and I and other were obsessed with whatever- Right ... the craziest stuff was when we were younger, like, that hasn't actually stopped.
Nice. We've just become our parents. Okay, we got, we, we- And we just like, we just like different cars than our parents did. Do you think Ferrari really even understands what people want anymore, though? And I know you're- I- ... about to walk into a Ferrari, uh, press- No, I mean, it, it's, it's interesting. Like, their- There's a, there's so many things happening at once.
You have, like, the l- the Luce, right? The electric car. Yeah, yep. Like, they had to start developing that, like, many years ago, so it's not like they decided six months ago to build an electric car. And so whatever... At the time they started developing that car, Lamborghini was gonna do an electric car, a bunch- of all these people.
Rimac just came out and was gonna be, you know, a, a, a, a fancy, fast, high-expensive electric car [00:17:00] four years ago, five years ago, was gonna be the thing. Mm-hmm. They just didn't pull the rip cord when others did. So you're thinking they looked at the Tesla and said, "Somebody wants the Ferrari version of- Yes ... a Tesla."
Yes. Yeah. Yes. And I could see that. And, and I also think- That's interesting, like, thinking about the luxury car side of it, because prior to the pod starting, we were talking about how we're all getting older and, like, want more comfortable project cars. So maybe, to err on Ferrari's side, is there's this world where they're like, "Well, people don't really want, like, raw race car bullshit anymore.
They want, like, a refined luxury experience with the Ferrari brand." I personally think that, like, if you're buying an SF90, that's like... It's not like you have a daily driver and an SF90. You probably have, like, a daily driver, another, like, an M3- Yeah ... and an SF90. That's a third or fourth car, not a second.
So it's like a third or fourth car. Yeah. So I still am in the camp that, like, I'm with you. Like, you're buying a Ferrari sports car, $800,000, that thing should be a race car, for the street with some refinements. Like- And I mean, look, to their, to Ferrari's, [00:18:00] like, to give them the benefit of the doubt, right?
Like, let's say the idea was sound if the execution fell short. Like, the Lamborghini Revuelto I think is, like, kind of better than the Aventador. It b- in the way it uses the hybrid and stuff like that. Mm. I think, uh, some of Porsche's hybrids... Like, I'm not, like, inherently anti-hybrid. Like, it can be done in ways that work well.
I just think that that car, it got really heavy, and it got- very fast, but not in a way that, like, was like, you know- Yeah ... all that exciting to me. I didn't think the trade-off was there in that particular car. And, and at the same time they off- they wanted all the money for it. Yeah. I, I understand Ferrari wanting to give their sports car customers something to drive every day.
Look at Cayenne, look at Urus, those are hugely successful products. Yeah, and like, I don't like the Urus for myself. I think it's kind of ugly. Like, the RS Q8- Yeah, sure ... is way more beautiful. But it totally does the job, where it's like you want this, [00:19:00] like, exotic-looking thing that's a daily driver- Dude, it's-
and it's, like, perfect ... it's so you can tell people you drive a Lamborghini without having to drive a Lamborghini. Yeah. You get the- Look- You get the Lamborghini keys ... the key. You get the key. But you also- Yeah ... get to drive it to 7-Eleven- Sure ... and it's pretty simple. Yeah, yeah. I don't hate, I don't hate the Urus, but I think- No, I don't hate it either, just the styling, but- But f- you know, Ferrari doesn't have a platform to share with anybody.
Mm-hmm. They don't have a- Right ... you know, they don't have that, so. But maybe then they should just stay in a Lambo. I completely agree. I- Yeah ... I'm not interested in a full electric Ferrari at all. Like, 'cause Lamborghini gets to lean on so much technology from the Volkswagen Audi group. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's literally a little- They get a really good hybrid because there's- Yes
so many people working on that. Yeah, yeah. And Ferrari, who was really good at building an engine and then putting a chassis around it, now has to compete with that. For sure. Yeah. For sure. So, you know, to me the SF90 is, is both, it's overrated as an individual model, it's overrated in terms of how it drives in the scale of all the Ferraris I've driven, and it's overrated in terms of it represents the sort of heavy shift to this technology- Yeah
that Ferrari's only [00:20:00] okay at. Good list. Good list. I like that we didn't- Well, well the last one's DeLorean ... I like that we didn't really touch on the DeLorean- The last one is DeLorean ... because the DeLorean is a fictitious hero car. That's funny. Yes, it is. Like, it's from Back To The Future, but like- I don't, did anyone expect it to be a good car?
John DeLorean and, uh, did. Yeah. You know? He, you know, I mean, a- and it's, and it's not- But he was also on a lot of coke. But, but so here's the thing with the, you know- Like, it's cool. I love them to like, look at ... it's a beautiful car. Yeah. Have you ever listened to a cokehead explain any idea to you? Yeah.
It's always gonna be really, really good. But like, it's a, it is a sick car from a visual perspective. Yeah. No, a- and, and it, it, it was my dream car. Like, when I was five- Yeah ... that was my dream car. Yeah. And I didn't know it was kinda crappy. I didn't know it was slow. Yep. I just saw like the crazy look, the stainless steel, the, the cra- look, fucking Elon Musk thought the same thing.
He just didn't pull the goddamn rip cord either, okay? He learned no lessons from the DeLorean building, selling process. Whereas I learned all of those lessons just by buying one [00:21:00] goddamn DeLorean. Okay? Now, I owned one of these things for three years, and so it was the car, you know, I dreamed of. And, and, and actually, there are a couple good things about it.
It's terrible at like mobbing canyons. Mm-hmm. And it's terrible at bumper-to-bumper traffic. But if you lived in like the Midwest and you could cruise, you know, uh, at a, at a 40% cruise around, it's actually okay. Yeah. It's fine for that. And if you're a little, if you're like a shy- Which also is the requirement for an F-250.
No, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, like you- No hard braking. Right, no. No hard turns. No hard turns. No, no, for sure. For sure. But all I'm, I'm saying is it, it doesn't drive terrible at a 5/10. Yeah. Yeah. It drives terrible at the things we do with cars in Los Angeles. Hmm. That's what I mean. Good point. Yeah, yeah.
If I owned the car in Connecticut, I may have kept it. I gotta say one cool one that I saw was like, shout out Nick Lambor-fucking-ghini. Oh yeah, I drove his. He like put a t- Did you drive that car? ... like a turbo six-cylinder in it. Pretty cool. What engine was that? So dude, this, this car was built by Steve Maxwell, who if you don't know Steve [00:22:00] Maxwell- Yeah
he's a fucking lunatic. Yeah. He's the man. That car was sick. It was a Kia Stinger GT engine swap. Yeah. Porsche 996 gearbox, Ferrari 355 Challenge brakes, a Porsche steering rack, and like the craziest KONI coilover dialed in- Yeah, that's a- ... corner balance setup. Did you drive it? Yes. Did it fix the car? It fucking ripped.
It was great. Yeah, but this is, now this is- It, it had that weird, it has that weird X chassis. Yes ... which is like- No, there's, they put so much bracing in it. But you, you saying that is how Brian justifies like most of his project car buys. That's true. He's like, "I want insert crappiest car ever, but I'm gonna insert insane list of mods- Right
and then it'll be cool." So the other- ... the thing he should've done- It's true ... he, he, and even he'll, he'll tell you, Nick will tell you this, he should've started with a better car He bought a crappy DeLorean You mean a- A better example Right. I was like- A better example ... I was like, "Well, then it wouldn't be a DeLorean."
No, no, no, no, no. I meant a better- That's what I was gonna say ... I meant a better example. Yeah. But you know what, though? I was just saying this to someone recently, is, like, I learned that lesson the hard way multiple times. Yeah. And that I will [00:23:00] now, if I'm gonna do a project car, I'm gonna buy maybe not the nicest one, like I'm not gonna buy the most expensive one and take it apart, but buy a nice- A pretty good one
car and start with it. Yeah. Because starting with a crummy car is so hard- Yeah ... to make it nice. It sucks. So hard. I'm dealing with it with my Supra right now. I bought an original owner, twin turbo Supra with low miles, but it was, like, neglected for a bit. Yeah. You get a- replacing, like, some of these plastic parts costs thousands of dollars, impossible to find.
Yeah. Like, you have to dedicate your whole life to finding the nonsense, and then somehow it still feels shitty. Yeah. Like... Yeah. I, almost all the cars I buy are absolute shit boxes, and then I think to myself, "I'm going to save them." And then sometimes you realize you just can't save- It's hard ... you can't save every car.
It's hard. Yeah, it's real, it's so expensive to un-shit-box something. So expensive. It's so expensive. It's the little things that kill you too. Yeah, yeah. It's like the, it's the clip for the, you know, ashtray- Oh, yeah ... that like broke. Oh, I was, I was driving, I was driving my Supra the other day, right? And I got most of it, it's like all pretty much back together, and then I'm like driving it and I'm like, how are the two corner dash speaker grill things, [00:24:00] like, rusted?
Mm-hmm. I gotta change those. You gotta take the dash out. I'm like, "I'm never gonna fucking do that." So now those are just gonna be like that forever. Yeah. You know? Like... Yeah. Uh, Mercedes, Mercedes plastic bits from the '90s, like around the binnacle, like the, the, the map lights and stuff. Yeah, yeah. Bro, impossible.
Yeah. Like, the worst if you fuckin' fuck with that stuff. And then like, you know, spending money on stuff, and you're like, "Oh, now I've just gotta spend $300 on a map light surround?" And you're like, "This is the worst money ever spent." Yeah. Like... Yeah, yeah, exactly, so. Is the DeLorean a special car for you, Vin?
Totally. Yeah? I had never personally- I wonder because you're- ... wanted one, but- ... 'cause you're a lot younger. Like, me and- No, but I mean, you gotta think- We- ... Back to the Future was such a big movie back then that like- Yeah, that it still was for you ... I don't think I ever looked at one and was like, "Ooh, I want one."
But you're like, you respect it, it's cool. Yeah. You know? My, my grandfather had one, and I've told this story on the pod before, and he had one when I was, like, six or seven, which is an amazing time to have a grandfather. It would've been almost new. The door o- Yeah ... it was, I think, yeah, about new. Yeah. And the, I remember, like, opening the doors, just getting in the car, opening the door, closing the car, opening the door, closing it, and then he sold it [00:25:00] six months later.
And my dad told me, I was like, "Dad, you know, why?" He basically was like, "The car was trash." Yeah. And it was like finding out that Santa Claus didn't exist. Yeah, yeah. Like, I think I cried. Like, I was like, I, there's no way that that car wasn't good. How, why did Grandpa sell it? And it's like, it just wasn't a good car.
Yeah. Yeah. Right? And- No, it's, like, pretty much true, and, and actually in most cases, like, you, there's nothing between, like, a stock one and all the way to what Nick did, which was like 300 grand. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you can't, like, you can make it m- have it make more power, but with, but you can't put bigger brakes in it, and you can't do, and the chassis- Yeah, yeah, it's just- So, so, so it's either, like, full crazy build, you know, gung ho, or- Just enjoy it for what it is
it just, it just is what it is. Yeah. Now, having said that, credit where it's due. If you're just cruising and you want a great, like, conversation piece that, like, women will like You know, like it's so, it's one of the only cars I've ever had where, like, women would approach me and be like, "I love your car."
Up until- It very rarely happens ... up until yesterday, I only owned one car that a woman [00:26:00] approached me in and was like, "This is so cool," and that was my '72 Nova. Uh-huh. And yesterday, a woman approached me in my Rabbit and was like- Oh, there you go ... "This is so cool." Okay. I was like, "These are the kind of cars that women like."
So the, the Manx, women love. I can see that. And my pink Porsche, women fucking love. Oh, yeah. Love. It's a, it's a cute car. Those are the, those are the, by far, my biggest hits among- It's like a rosé ... among females. Yeah. But I, I always thought, like, the DeLorean was like a novelty car. It was. You know? Like it was- So, you know what you, you- Yeah
in England they'd call it a pub car. Yeah. Like, you can't, it's a great car to cruise to the, to the pub, and that's about it. Yeah. But given its iconic status, I, I have to include it on the overrated list. So, so you had already ranked yours. What, what was your ranking walking in here? 'Cause you were gonna s- The DeLorean was three, uh, the SF90 was two, and the SLR was one.
Nice. Hmm, I, I would put the DeLorean as one, but maybe just because I'm from an older generation- Yeah, maybe ... because it was like, I, I think of it as like one of the top her- over-hyped hero cars. It was supposed to be a supercar. I know. Like, it was supposed to be like- Oh, that, that makes it worse ... a supercar.
Like a 911 [00:27:00] fighter or something. Not even a 911, like- That makes it so much worse ... it shared space on a boy's bedroom wall with- Yeah ... Countaches. Yes, correct. Yeah. Correct. That makes it pretty bad. It was, to me, to me mentally, and I say this as someone who now has a Countach- Yeah ... it was more important than the Countach.
So is the Countach not on the list for you? 'Cause I've heard people say that the Countach- No ... is a car you shouldn't- Bro, talk- I mean, I've listened to Matt and Doug DeMuro talk about- Yeah, no, it's great ... how amazing of a car that is to drive. It's the best thing ever. It's selectively amazing. Right. You don't want to get stuck in a traffic jam with it, but- It's, it's the extreme- Yeah
of what we're talking about with like the Ferrari being an everyday car. Yeah. Like, I remember I talked to you when you got it, and you were like, "It's a car that I take out Sunday morning early to go to Malibu and make home before traffic." Yeah. Like, it's a very specific car to drive. Yeah, but like, it's, it's a really good highway car.
It's extremely comfortable once you're s- it's a little awkward- Yeah ... getting out of, but once you're sitting in it, it's very comfortable. Has a beautiful ride. It makes a great sound. As I say, it sounds cool, like- It has a... Dude, the trunk, I can fit a full weekend of luggage for pe- two people. I took it to Santa Barbara for the week.
It's fabulous. That's [00:28:00] sick. And where- That's, that's epic ... wherever you go with it, you're the winner. I'm, I'm- You have won- I'm super h- I'm super happy to hear this- Yeah ... because if you search, like, most over-hyped cars- Sure ... the Countach is always on the list. Because, yeah, because- Because no one's driven them
no one's driven them. Yeah. And fewer people... Here's the other thing, it's got so much oil. It's got like 12, 13 quarts of oil in a, in a, in the, in it. Weird It takes like 30 minutes to warm it all up. Yeah. So when it's ice cold- Like my 11s ... it's clunky. You got a really warm- Honestly, the 360's like that too, though.
Ferraris are like that also. Yeah. Dude, it takes, takes 30 minutes to get oil temp in the thing. Yeah. The transmission takes- I'll drive it for half an hour and it won't be warm. No, a, a Countach that's driven regularly and that has been warmed up should be pretty slick and nice. The steering's light. It's, it's a beautiful thing.
I don't think it's overrated at all. So what do you think tops the list for his most hyped? You know, I was gonna disagree, but I think, uh, DeLorean being one makes sense because, uh- Because it was supposed to be a supercar. I didn't think about that. Yeah. I, uh, you know, like, when you, when you put it on that level, you're like, [00:29:00] yeah, that's a, that's a big letdown.
The SLS is a really, really close second, though, for me. SLR. G- SLR, I mean, sorry. The SLR is good. No, sorry, sorry. SLR is- I didn't mean SLS. SLS is good, and also looks really nice. Right. The problem for me with the SLR is I never thought it looked good. Yeah, I don't think so either. Like, it looked really... It was very phallic.
It's very much a George Clooney Batman era. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was very George Clooney. It was, yeah, it was definitely that. It was very phallic, like- And I'll tell you what, I interviewed Gordon Murray. Yeah. The g- the g-est of g's. He hates it. Mm. He hates it. He has deep personal involvement with this car, and he was like, "Ugh, not that."
And I don't need to love everything Gordon Murray loves, but if he hates it, it's bad. Yikes. I love that. Yeah. So are you happy with the DeLorean moving forward as the top of your list? Sure. Sure. Would you fight that? Sure. No, I won't- Okay ... I will not fight that. The DeLorean is a, is a, is a good one. I, I think the, I, I think the SLR could very much come back at the end of this conversation.
Okay. But- Let's hear Vin's. All right. Cool. So I broke my list up into three groups. One, childhood [00:30:00] dream car. Okay. One, a car I think everyone agrees that they love. Mm-hmm. And then, a modern disappointment. Okay. So- Got it ... childhood dream car, this is how you know I'm a piece of trash. Um, grew up with this on my wall, third gen Camaro IROC-Z.
Mm. Mm. IROC-Z, dude. Yeah. Uh, second car, personal experience, I've owned it, uh, Matt may disagree with me here. One of the most over-hyped cars I was really let down by, NA1, NA2 Acura NSX. Shit, that's my number four. Nice. Yeah, it's not- Oh. I, I knew that was gonna be on your list- Yeah, yeah ... 'cause you and I have talked about that Modern car that I was really excited for but disappointed, you had just mentioned it, Lamborghini Revolto.
Mm. Oh. V12, new, modern super hy- is that a hyper car now? I mean, I don't know, but- Yeah, somewhere, whatever you wanna draw the line ... just like lacked soul. Didn't, like, it- It, it didn't do anything for me emotionally Okay That's my list Which one, which one you wanna get into first? I mean, IROC Z 'cause it's easy.
[00:31:00] Um- What's hilarious is you had a poster of that Uh, I w- you'll love, you guys will love this. I- He was Italian. Of course he did. Guys, I went to the Jersey Shore almost every weekend- Yes ... 'cause my grandparents had a bungalow there. I played a stupid board- boardwalk game, and I won a prize, and the prize was, like, they had, like, car posters, and I was like, "I want that one," a red IROC Z, T-tops, parked on grass.
That was my ultimate dream car as a kid. It was parked on grass. Yeah. The Boomer poster. Woo. I got, I got a- And then I finally, I got one for free A car? A car? My dad works, yeah, my dad works at a Chevrolet dealership, and this old couple turned in a third-gen Camaro, IROC. How old were you? Uh, I was, like, 20.
Okay, cool. No, I was, like, 18. Um- Great time to own an IROC Z ... they turned, they turned that in for a trade-in, and it had, like, 3,000 miles on it. Sick. And the dealership offered them, like, 500 bucks, and they were like, "Uh, you could just give it to, like, someone who needs it." And at the time, I was building the motor in my GTI, so my dad took it, and I was like, "Imma daily that shit."
Yeah. Dream car shit. Drove it. It was [00:32:00] the worst, wackest- ... shittiest car as an automatic. Was it, it was a, it was a automatic with the 350? Oh, yeah. Okay, yeah. So I think- Horrible ... actually The styling of that car has begun to age well. Oh, I agree. We did one at Hoonigan- I... The one at Hoonigan was awesome ... for the 632, and it was incredibly cool.
So good. And I think they can be made to drive pretty good. Like, not amazing, but pretty good. Well, with some work I bet you could, yeah. But, but, like, but you're basically back halving the car. For sure. Oh, for sure. I think with, like, a QA1- Styling, yeah, they dri- the stock, they drive like straight trash ... yeah, QA1 and Detroit Speed make a lot of cool parts for it.
Yeah. You could probably make it a pretty nice handling car, and you put, like, a newer LT4 motor in it. But then you're talking, you got a $200,000 build. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, like- That's a pro touring build at that point. Yeah, you're no longer, like- Yeah, yeah ... in a third gen Camaro, so. I would much rather- You're like, "The Detroit speed one drives really good."
You're like- Yeah. Yes ... "Yes, 'cause you're driving-" That's the one I drove. That's the one I drove. All, all it, all it needs is, like, a rack and pinion steering, dual A-arm front suspension- Holy shit ... all new arms in the back. [00:33:00] Dude, oh my God ... a different motor. IRS, but whatever. Yeah. Si- sidebar. The first- A D-stroked LS.
The first C3 Corvette I ever drove was the Detroit Speed, like, autocross car. And you were like, "Oh, this is good." I was like, "I'm a get me one of these." Imagine my surprise- Yeah ... when I tried an actual '71. I was like, "What the fuck is wrong with this car?" Somebody, some, somebody texted me the other day, and they, they said, "Man, I just saw a real Javelin in life, and I've only seen with the Ring Brothers Javelin"- Yeah.
which I've driven as well, and they were like, "Man, that's a very different car." Yeah, that's not the same thing. That's like being like, "Yeah, I love air-cooled 911s. Like, the Gunther Works car is so good." You're like, "Yeah, go drive a G body." Like, that's not the same thing. '82 SC. Yeah. Find third gear and call me.
Imagine, imagine, like, your first experience in an air-cooled was a Singer- Yeah. That's great ... and then you just got dropped off one day in a G body. Yeah. Like, what is this? No. I took someone for a ride in a DLS not long ago, and it wasn't his [00:34:00] first ride in an air-cooled, but he, he... It was, like- Yeah ... one of them.
Yeah. And he was like, "Wow, this is really something." I'm like, "This is
$3 million." The, the, the price tag is, like, 3 million, not 100,000. Yeah. 3 million dollars. This is worth more than all of our houses put together. Like, by the way. Like, um, so. Insane. Yeah. But then the car for me, the NSX I think is a really, like, interesting one because I know you've had one. I did, yeah. You owned yours for quite some time.
Like, three years I had mine, yeah. I had mine for, like, two. Yeah. Uh, it is actually an amazing car to drive. I pretty much daily drove mine. I drove it to Santa Margarita a bunch. I drove it to Vegas. I put a lot of miles on it. I thought it was a great- daily driver car, I thought it offered a horrible, fun driving experience.
I probably took it to the canyons three times- Yeah ... and I was like, "This is the worst car for it." I actually completely agree with you. It's a fabulous road trip sports car. Oh, yeah. You gotta go on a long trip. One of the, one of the best of all time. It's a grand tour. [00:35:00] Yeah. It is absolutely grand tour. The brakes and the steering in the canyons are fucking heinous in these cars.
And the, and the, the gear ratio- They're shamefully bad ... you had a 6B, so it's a bit better. I had a 6B, and I had more torque. Yeah. I had 3.2. The steering ratio, which is, like, three point fucking nine to
one, dude, is a, it's a terrible thing to steer. It's just a terrible thing to steer. And so, uh, uh, well, you wanna do a million miles on it, here's the problem. If you've got a great NSX, like, I had a great- Yeah ... I had a great one. Yeah. I don't know, five low mile- miles are crazy money on- Really? Oh, 'cause yours
on a low-mile car. Yours. Your, what'd yours have? I bought it with 17,000 miles on it- Mm-hmm ... and I sold it with 21. Yeah. And if I had sold it with 19, I probably could have stacked 25K on top of what I- Yeah, yeah ... so, like, y- y- I hate cars like that, by the way ... it sucked. Yeah. It sucked that it wasn't- Mile- the mileage prison is the lamest thing you can be in.
It sucked- Yeah ... because it was nice to drive, but not, like, mind-blowing. You wanna hear the... Okay. [00:36:00] It was just pleasant and, and pleasant, but- But do you think that's why they have so many high-mile ones? So if you- 'Cause it's actually just an easy car to drive. Yeah. If you buy one with a bunch of miles and you put a bunch more, miles are cheap because the maintenance is cheap.
I, I bought mine with, with 115- Yeah ... and I sold it with, like, 130, and it was great. That's the sweet. Like- But if you buy a low-mile one- Yeah ... miles are very, very expensive in terms of retail. Yeah. And the cra- So that's why, that's why I got rid of it ... the funniest little tip on that, and this is what, like, broke mileage for '90s cars for me, is I bought my car, I immediately sent it to a shop.
We did a engine out service, timing belt, water pump, all the stuff, blah, blah, blah, right? First big road trip on it, take it up to this, first that. Drive it up there. On the way down, my speedo stopped working, so I'm like, "Oh, fuck." So I call the shop and I'm like, "Hey, speedo stopped working." They're like, "Oh, just swing in.
We'll just swap it for you. Super easy. It's, like, right on top of the transmission." So go in, they're like, "Yeah, we have one here. We'll just swap it." And they're doing it, and they're like, "Surprised you even wanna change it." I'm like, "What do you mean?" Like, "The speedo doesn't work." And they were [00:37:00] like- Yeah, they just, the odometer
they just, they're like- Exactly ... and they were like, "Most guys unplug it when they drive long distances." And it clicked- That's crazy ... 'cause when I was looking for- Wow ... when I was looking for NSXs- Fucking hate this shit, dude ... when I was looking for NSXs, I remember I Carfaxed one in particular, and it was bought, like, eight years ago by, like, a dude who's not a collector, just, like, a dude, and it had, like, 60,000 miles.
And then every year, or, like, two years, when it would get smogged, it would have, like- 300 more miles on it. And you're like, "You really only drove this car 300 miles a year?" And then I was like, oh, no, you literally pop the hood, you reach in, and you just unplug the fucking speed-o sensor, and the car drives 100% normal.
That's crazy. And you're like, no wonder why all these... 'Cause, like, back in the day, I feel like 60K was probably the cusp. Sure. Like, now it's like 10. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But, like, back in the day, like 60 was, like, probably it. Yeah. And people were probably just like, "Well, it's at 59, so now I'm just gonna, like, incrementally add miles."
Well, thanks for telling me now. I could have been doing fraud this whole time. Yeah, you could have been, you could have been fucking scamming [00:38:00] people. I could have been doing the fraud the whole time. My car already had high mileage, so I was like, I don't really care, but- And, and the undercarriage of my car absolutely reflected the accurate miles, so you weren't fucking with that.
But, but- Well, that's the thing. It's like people who are experienced with purchasing cars and stuff, they could figure that out. Yeah. 'Cause, like, you look at some cars and you're like, that clearly doesn't have- Yeah ... 60Ks. Yeah. And it looks hammered. But yeah, it's just crazy. So that car- So you- ... to me was like- You were super bummed with when you...
Like, I remember you realizing that that car wasn't as great as you thought it was gonna be. It was like the Seinfeld episode of, like, the girl who looks different in different light. Yeah, yeah. Where you're like, "Oh." But like- Like, like, there were moments where, like, you were like, "I love this car. I don't love this car.
Maybe I don't fit in it well. I'm gonna get the seat redone." Like, you were const- Like, certain things about it are amazing You were making excuses for the car to be better. Yeah. So, like, the fact that it has this enormous trunk is amazing. Yeah. The fact that you can take the top off... Was yours a T? No.
Mine's a T. Mine's a '91, so. So you could take the top off mine, and it goes on top of the engine. Mm. So it doesn't, you can- Impact the trunk? It doesn't impact the trunk. Yeah. So you can go on a full road trip, top up, top down, all your luggage, no problem. I mean, [00:39:00] certain packaging and ergonomics things about this car, like- Looks great
and at one point in 2023 I had a Ferrari 328, the NSX, and my 718 Spyder all at the same time. Ooh. And you could draw a straight line to those cars. Yeah. The Japanese guys said, "Okay, this, but good." Yeah. And then, and then the Germans said, "This, but good." And so I started realizing last year wh- why am I taking ti- miles away from my Boxster where miles cost me fucking nothing, and driving this substandard experience NSX where miles cost me a goddamn fortune?
Let's fucking dump this thing. Wait, your Spyder? Yeah. You think miles cost nothing? My Spyder miles cost nothing. Why? Because, because, I mean, they don't cause- they don't cost much in terms of depreciation. Oh. Oh, 'cause the car's just going up, so it doesn't matter. My, my specific car, I believe I could effectively...
Now, I intend to keep it for a very, very long time. Yeah. I, I don't think my car will depreciate like other Spyders because it's got a demand motor- Yeah, yeah ... because it's mine- Yeah ... because [00:40:00] it's special. Yeah. That's just my prediction if I ever chose to sell, which I do not. Yeah. But- Okay ... cool. Yeah, I agree with that.
Like, the- It's just I only have so much time to drive cars. Yeah. I got one or two days a week for fun driving. Yeah. Let's drive the fucking m- faster, better steering, better brakes, more powerful- Totally ... more comfortable car, and sell the one- Yeah ... that costs me all this money. And also, all of us are a bit taller.
Like, you tried sitting in my NSX. Yeah. You don't fit. You're a no-go. I, I was, I was a seat pad out guy, and I used to sometimes, like, sloop in my seat because, like, the number one thing you hear about the NSX is, like, fighter jet style seating position. Right. So I used to literally be driving it, I'd be like...
Oh, yeah, I guess that's pretty cool. Yeah. Like, if I were eight inches shorter, this would be sick. If you're 5'6"- Yeah ... it's about right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's, it's, it's true. It's, it's, it's, it's a row of sixes across- Yeah ... the board, but no tens. No, no tens. The engine is horrifically boring. It doesn't sound cool.
The gear- God, it's as much to service as a Ferrari. The engine out is the same- So I- ... I paid for my [00:41:00] 911's engine out and for my fucking 328's- Dude, you wanna know what's funny? ... major service. A couple years ago when I started my YouTube channel- It's the same ... I did, uh, an episode and it was called, like, uh, the Honda that's more expensive than a super car or some shit.
Yeah. Because you could get a Ferrari 360 engine for 7,500 bucks. You could do a timing belt service for 1,300 bucks. Yeah. You can do, like, all the stuff, and then you look at the NSX, you're like, an NSX, uh, whatever, what is that? A C30A? That motor, $25,000. Timing belt service, you have to drop the engine. Yeah.
Yeah. It's like seven grand. The s- yeah. Like- I paid Evasive Motorsports $6,800 for a major service. Yeah, I paid like- Wow ... $8,000- Yeah ... to do mine. Like, they're not ex- everything on an NSX is so expensive. Except tires. Tires. And, and it, and, and it's, and, and it's It's de- it's a dependable thing. Yeah. You know what I mean?
Yeah. Like, it, it's not likely to leave you stranded. Yeah. But there's shit that fucking adds up in that car. Yeah. Crazy stuff. Yeah, I had to have my AC serviced. That was like three th- three grand. Yeah, yeah. Like, they're very expensive. I think the most surprising thing to hear from both of you guys, 'cause [00:42:00] I don't know if I've heard this before, is that it's just not a good driving, like, canyon car.
No. No. It's just a good cruiser. It's a car, if you're driving to San Diego- It just seems like such a weird car- ... go drive that ... to be a cruiser. Right? Right. It does. You know, like if- You also, you wouldn't think the Countach is a good GT car either, but it is. Yeah. It's a better GT car than it is a canyon car.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean- Like, would you say that your 360's a good canyon car? Um- Better than the NSX? Here's the thing. I, this is gonna be so embarrassing. Yes, but only marginally. So embarrassing. Um, I recently raised my 360, like, an inch. And it's so much better. And it fucking rips. It rips. It went from, like, a stance shit box to- Yeah
like, an absolute race car. No way. Springs and shit. So you're not gonna make fun of my... You'll make fun of my tires, but not my h- Yeah, once you- ... my ride height ... once you get rid of your 400 tread wear Pirellis. What are those winter... You had snow tires on that. Yeah, Brian's thinking that they're ice race next year.
Ice race. The guy, the guy that I bought it off of, like, clearly was, was tracking it, and I think he took off his track rubber- Uh ... to be like, "It's not a track car." The new tires. Yeah. When I [00:43:00] bought my 997 RS, it came on Hankook V12s, and I immediate- like, first weekend, I, like, had to drive it, so I took it to, like, Goodtime Meet, and everyone made fun of the tires.
'Cause you're like, you have this, like, factory race car on $120- Yeah ... like, Hankooks. Yeah. Like, what is this? I, I- And I immediately changed them ... the car, it's the tire the car got sold on. Yeah. I judged a- Yeah, it was definitely the dude just being like, "I need to put tires on this thing." Yeah. So he bought the cheap ones.
I judged a charity car show last weekend at, like, I was judging the exotics category. And, you know, I had to find one winner from, like- Yeah ... 35 or 40 cars. So one of my instant DQs was if you had tires over seven years old on your supercar. Ooh, that's a good one. Instant DQ. Yeah. And then I also had a soft DQ, which is...
An instant DQ, I would tell you your fucking ti- you need a brand new problem. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The soft DQ, I wouldn't tell them, I would just give them a row of zeros, was if they had their Instagram handle on the side of the car. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Also a way, yeah. That's a soft DQ. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But dude, there was a guy with a pumpkin 997 RS with a cage in it.
Hell yeah. Okay? [00:44:00] And buckets, the shit. Tires date code 2015. Wow. Like- So I, I just bought a Corvette C6 Z06 for JP, 7,000 miles. Original tires. Beautiful. Date code, 2011 tires. Yeah, buddy. 2011. Yeah. And JP's gonna mod it and stuff, but he was driving it around yesterday, and I was like, "Hey, be careful." Get, get rid of those.
Like, these are 11... These are, like, however old. 15-year-old tires. Yeah, it's shady. Like, be careful. Yeah. All right, so in a sense- And what was, what was the last thing in your group? Uh, the Revuelto. Yeah. So my thing with that is I drove one of those, and I do think it is a cool car. It just sort of is one of those things where you're like, "Hell yeah, Lamborghini making a V12 naturally aspirated super hyper car."
And then you drive it, and you're just kinda like, speed is no sensation. Uh, you gotta go three million miles an hour to feel like you're doing 60. Not really any NVH. Like, it sounds cool. The hybrid thing kind of ruins it for me. Like, I [00:45:00] don't know, it just felt like that, like, modern era of hyper car that lost a lot of feeling, uh, and, like, is just trying to rest on the laurels of it being, like, 1,000 horsepower, V12.
Like, it's more about the stats than the experience. Mm-hmm. I kind of disagree. I think the key with the Revuelto is you gotta drive it in, like, the right mode. Mm. Like, if you drive it in hybrid mode and the engine's, like, kicking on and off, like, that's horrible. Yeah. Like, you can't have that. That's terrible.
But if you put it... If you just click the one thumb button and just put it into sport, start sport, the engine stays on. And when the engine stays on all the time, you kind of forget that it's a hybrid. Mm. And, and, and I've driven it around town. I got one for, like, a week as a press car, but I drove it Performance Car of the Year also, so I, I tracked it a bunch.
I've never driven a V12 Lamborghini that was better on a racetrack ever See, it's interesting because you- Mm ... like you get such a different driving experience than I do, 'cause whenever I get cars for like videos- Yeah ... I'm getting cars for like [00:46:00] couple hours. Oh, yeah. And I have like a huge thing to do, and I don't get to like have the same amount of seat time, whereas I feel like you really like- I've driven a, I've had a lot of Vuelto seat time.
I've been where you've been- And, okay, yeah ... a bunch of times as well. I've done, I've done videos in- Yeah ... on no experience. Right. But also- And like you get kind of a different- No ... taste when you're like I have to kind of get like the TikTok version of this- Yeah ... where you're like experiencing it for a short burst of time.
And I could give you a list of cars where I've gone 180 on- Yep ... after driving it for longer. Interesting, yeah. A whole list of cars on that. That could be a whole other show. The, I, I think you could- That's actually, that's a really funny take ... the comparison of, of driving on the launch versus owning it for a week- Sure
is such a different experience, and like I compare it to, and it's probably weird, but when you go to a, like a red carpet movie premiere, the movie always feels good. Yeah. But if you were to watch it on Netflix, you'd be like, "This isn't that great." You know, you know what though? See the stand-up comedy- There's something special.
So stand-up comedy's actually, that's a better analogy. Yeah. Going and watching a comedian at a comedy club versus watching the special. Yeah. Driving the car on the press launch feels like that. Yeah. Like, everybody's [00:47:00] there. Like, they definitely create the bubble. They make it really exciting. You're getting to drive it on track.
Yeah. You don't have to live with it. When you show up to go eat lunch, they have a parking spot for you. Yeah. It's not like you sit there- Well, you know- ... going, "Wow, this thing is almost impossible to park. I can't see out the rear- Yeah ... of the car." Like- I'll, I had, so I had it for both. I went on the press, uh, not, I didn't go on the launch.
We had it for performance car of the year, which is two days on a racetrack and two days on the road. Yep. So I drove it a bunch, and then I got one for a week, and I drove it around LA, and I d- hit, hit the canyons and all that other kind of shit, too. I thought it was great to use every day, to be honest with you, because it doesn't have- Yeah
a mechanical front drive anymore. It, you can fit. Mm. Now you can fit, and I can fit. It's really comfortable, and like I said, if you keep the engine on, which it's easy to do- You don't notice so much that it's a hybrid. Yeah. You don't have to plug it in. Right. It's not a plug-in hybrid, so. So the, the funny thing about that, like, you know, you're only driving in, like, a set situation, is the other day I forgot that I had driven the Gunther Werks Turbo-
because I got to drive it. It's an easy one to forget. So they... No, it's one of the most fun cars I think I've ever driven, and, [00:48:00] um, they were like, "Oh, you can take the car for a week," but then something happened and it ended up just being like I had the car for the day. Yeah. And we were shooting and everything, and I, like, just completely forgot.
Yeah. I was like, "Wait, how did I get to that spot we sh- shot Beauties at? Like, did I drive it on the highway?" Like, I didn't even remember. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because you're so, like, consumed- Yeah ... with making content and stuff, and, like, you could easily overlook a lot of stuff when you're just driving something for this, like- Yeah
basic intended purpose. Was that the orange one or the silver one? Yeah. So I just drove the new one, the slant nose one. Dude, they're insane. I, I actually included it as one of my lists because- Whoa. Oh, interesting ... I think they, I, I act- I think they, I think they've gone too far. Have they jumped it? They've gone too far and they need to dial it down.
Interesting. The orange car was beyond psychotic- Yeah ... and the limit of what my brain can process. Right. This is, this is too much. Wow, okay. It's too much. That's a fun thing to talk about. Yeah, it's too much. It's not, there's j- j- it's just, I drove it for t- two and a half hours, three hours, and I went straight to bed afterwards.
It's just exhausting. It was, it [00:49:00] was so tiring. Yeah. And I could see that- Yeah ... 'cause I drove the orange one around and it was like- It- mind-blowingly fast. And like, you know, modern day Motec and stuff- Yeah ... has sophisticated TC and all this. So like, it puts it down, it's not sup- but you have to be, like- It's terrifying, yeah
attentive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's mind-blowingly fast. It's dangerously fast. Like- I, and feel free to bleep this out, but allegedly on, up on Lake Hughes Road up in Castaic, I saw 186 miles an hour- Good road. Ooh ... topping out, topping out fifth gear in that car. Holy shit. Do you need me to bleep that out? I don't give a fuck.
All right. I don't care. I don't give a fuck. Prove it, bitch. But, you know- Block camera coming in right now ... just, just, it's, it, but it's, but at the, but I told, I told Peter from Gunther, I said, "Look, you have proven, you've reached the end." Yeah, yeah, yeah. "This, this is it." Don't go further. "Pe- people will die."
Yeah. "Now make me a comfortable one." Yeah. "Can you, can you make me a, a 500 horsepower comfortable one that I want to spend all day in?" Yeah. "That is your next challenge." Yeah. [00:50:00] So anyway, back to the topic at hand. No, good point. Yeah. So which one tops your list, if you had to pick the one? Hmm. If I had to pick one, I think it'd be the NSX, um, because I think it's the most widely desired car.
Yeah. Like, you talk to people, and it is a absolute hero. It is the poster car. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and they're universally- The- ... considered great things. Yeah. The IROC-Z's also a really good one on that list, but for a different generation. Different gen. I think g- I think people now know the IROC-Z's not that good.
Yeah. Yeah. Most people would say, "I would expect that car to suck." Um- And it's a little too affordable and common to be a true hero car. Yeah, like you're talking- I re- ... you could get one for, like, six grand. Yeah. Like, I remember- It's like- ... smoking ones with my VR6 Golf, and like, the owner being like, "What the hell's in there?"
I'm like, "A stock VR6. That car is just trash." Yeah. By the way, can we next year, should we plan this now for, like, January? Can we all go to Barrett-Jackson for, like, the first two days where- Yeah ... the cheap shit's- Yeah ... bidding? Oh, I would be down With like, with like 15K- Oh, yeah ... and you have to spend it all.
And drive it back. And drive it home. Yeah. I like that as an idea. [00:51:00] Yeah. You, you have to buy something. Dude, I, I went last year, dude. Yeah. There was C4 ZR1s for- Yes ... like, 20. Dude, I saw- Like, 20, 21 grand. I saw, I saw, I saw a Mustang, uh, the SN95. It was, like, the Cobra R- Yeah ... sold for, like, 20 grand. Yeah. And you're like, what the fuck?
A Cobra R? You know what I almost bought last week but, but stopped myself, thank God, and didn't? Terminator. I, I found, no, I found a Saleen S351R speedster- Wow ... with, like, no miles on it, but they wanted all the money. Yeah. And I stopped my... Didn't I text you about it? Was it you I texted? No, I don't think so.
Oh, okay. I texted some- I would've told you yes ... I texted some- not when I told you the price. No. Not for $115,000. Nah. No. Nah. No. For, for 60, all day. Yeah. But, uh- I went to Barrett-Jackson in 2000- Seven maybe, seven, eight, with Ryan Dunn. Oh, shit. And, and, and, and we were there, the Scottsdale one, and, um, a Countach went.
Because at- Yeah ... that time, nobody wanted them. Yeah, yeah. Sold for $29,000. No way. Yeah, I mean, it was already lower, and, like, [00:52:00] he was so angry because he couldn't- Somebody got the deal of a lifetime ... he hadn't, he hadn't signed up to bid, 'cause we were just there hanging out and drinking, and then all of a sudden was like, "Dude, I want this so bad."
And it's like to think about, like, you can pick up a classic 'cause if the- Yeah ... trend is not, if the people there aren't thinking this is what they're buying, it just can fall. I walked around the, the, what they, it was- Yeah ... fuck, was it Mecum? It may have been Mecum, where they have, where it's like, if it, the no sales.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The bid goes on. Oh, yeah, yeah. Whatever. Yeah, yeah. And you can just fucking write a number on the windshield. If you want like, if you want like an, an Arnage R- Oh, yes ... you'll pick that up cheap. No, there- Like, those are those things ... there, there are some good deals there, man. There are.
Yeah. I saw, I s- dude, I saw a zillion muscle cars that were a set of bad '90s wheels away, you know? Oh, yeah. It was- Yeah ... it was, all you gotta do is put the stock wheels back- Yeah ... on this thing- And you're good ... and you're fucking 20% return. Yeah. All right, so what's your- Uh, let's hear your cars ... agree, wait, do we all agree on the NSX?
Yes. Yeah, I think, yeah, we're all there. Yeah, yeah. So all right, first we're gonna take a quick break, come back, and then I'll drop my list. By now you might have realized I really enjoy European things. I mean, my cars are [00:53:00] European. My tools are European. I mean, my producer, he's, he's British, which I think is still European.
That was rude, but go on. Did I tell you what I did this weekend? What did you do? So I decided that I'm gonna actually park the Vanagon for a little bit and get back to driving the RS2, like literally knock the dust off of it. And to do that, I figured I'd do a little preventive maintenance. It's not something I think of when I think of you, dude.
Yeah, you see, the problem is that car gets a lot of things right, but there's this one issue where the strut bearings just constantly fail, especially if the car is, like, slammed on its nuts like mine is. So I ordered a set of strut bearings from FCP Euro, got them, and was gonna swap them out, and I stripped this really annoying nut.
Like, seriously, curse the German engineer who designed this. It's like a weird half castle nut. It requires this weird specialty tool, and if you put too much force on it, it gives up. So anyway, uh, I stripped that, and now my car was on a jack stand, and honestly, I was about to just leave it there, like I've left many other projects to die.
But it's the [00:54:00] RS2, so headed in, went to FCPeuro.com, found the part. Because they had it in Arizona, they were able to overnight it to me. Boom, I had it the next day at my farm. Got the car back on the road. It was awesome. FCP Euro most likely has the parts you need and can get them to you pronto, you know, so you can keep driving the cool cars.
That's what matters. Yo, what's up? So last week we piloted this whole new idea. It's called Very Vehicular Showcase, and we did it on Pikes Peak.
Unfortunately, we uploaded it pretty late on Friday night, so I think a lot of you might have missed it. Go check it out, 'cause we put a bunch of work into it and we want you to see it. That's all. Now back to the show Let's hear Brian Scotto's- I am so nervous ... top three disappointments- ... that, that aren't Vin Anatra, Ron Zaras-
and Hoonigan as a company in general. Well, [00:55:00] and that's the show. Nice. That's the show. I li- I like Matt with the fresh weed. Woo. Coming in, coming in hard on that one. Well, f- my list sucks now. Uh, my list, uh, in no particular order, uh, the R35 GT-R. Oh, good one. Hmm. Um, the E30 M3. Also a good one. Boy, are you fucking two bangers.
And last, the Fox Body Mustang. And, uh, the Fox Body Mustang, for me- Interesting ... lives in the same world that I think the Camaro does for him. And the thing that was sort of, uh, tied for that position, but I kept it out because I realized that you guys might not have experience in it, is another Ford product, which is the Escort Cosworth.
Mm-hmm. Hmm. That I thought would, like, as a kid, I grew up loving that car, and then I got to drive it, and it was not good. Not that great. Interesting. It wasn't even, like, not that good. Yeah. Yeah. Like, it was less fun than, like, a Mark 3 VR6- Yeah, like- ... which, like, I'll admit, isn't that good of a car. [00:56:00] Yeah. No, I think if, if I have a vote, I think the, the Escort Cosworth is more disappointing than a Fox Body.
Because it looks crazier. Yeah. Like, it looks like it's gonna be more special. Well, and 'cause it's like, uh, un- it was unobtainium for us. Yeah. It was exotic- Yeah ... and foreign- Yeah ... and rally- Yeah ... and blah, blah, blah. All right, so you want me to have that in my list instead? Is that because- I would- ... you once owned a Fox Body?
No, I, I did. But you spent a lot of money on a Fox Body. It takes a lot of money to make a Fox Body good. Yeah. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna b- Yeah ... argue that point. The Fox Body was, where I grew up, like, the hero- Yeah ... car of, like, street racing. Yeah, I mean, but stock they kinda suck. They suck. A Fox Body is a fabulous starting point for a fun build.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It starts with the Italian flag on the back left corner- Yeah ... and then you go. Yeah. You do E- Ecam- Yeah ... and a P1SC. E33 303- Woo ... and Flowmasters, baby. Yeah, dude. Let's go. That's it. Running bigs and littles- Yeah ... on the Belt Parkway. Slicks and skinnies, bro. You gotta, you gotta have the, the Weld Draglites.
Fuck yeah. Of course. Dude, American Racing. Yeah. Yeah. Five stars. Dude. Yeah, you got- I was there- Yeah ... running 15s, [00:57:00] bro. Yeah. I got my very first street race, my only street race, really, got lined up on my fucking SN95. My mom wouldn't let me have a Fox Body. She made me get Mus- uh, air bags. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My friends all had Fox Bodies.
I lined up, had never really heard much about the Eclipse GSX. Hell yeah. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Hell yeah. Learned what its tail lights looked like. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Nah, yeah. Yeah, that, that thing was impressive in that era. No, but the Fox Body is w- is good objectively because it is the smallest muscle car. And having a car that's physically- I still-
small but, but sounds like a muscle car, and that you mod like a muscle car, is objectively good. I will say- You know what? ... a toxic trait of mine is finding clean, either Calypso Green- Yeah, of course ... or- Of course ... or that, that ugly-ass tan notchback Mustangs and, like, asking them if it's still available. So for, for me- 'Cause I [00:58:00] want one so bad, but, like, I can't bring myself to buy it
Calypso Green, for me it's Calypso Green, uh, GTs or, uh, cop spec Notches. Yeah. Yeah, mature ones. Yeah. So mine was a, mine was a real SSP. Your car was so cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, someone tries to sell it back to me about every three years for more than I paid- I love that. Yeah ... so before. I mean, hey, everything goes up, you know?
Not back. Not back. I think the problem for me, though- No ... is... Uh, but you know what? That's a really good, like, kind of way to think about it. It is the last of the original muscle cars. Yeah. Which is, like, base, they're not that good. Yeah. But they're a good platform to throw a ton of money at. Yeah. Like, that I, that I'd buy.
It's... Yeah, it's like a Lego car. Yeah. You know? Yes. Like, you're... Yeah. You, you have to mess with it for it to be good. Yeah. But- Honestly, and I know you said you had a category, so the... Every '90s JDM hero car sucks stock. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Modified, cool. Stock, sucks. You and I... The RX-7 FD is, like- Yeah ... pretty good stock.
I, I would actually. Yeah. But it, it, it livens up a lot with success. The rest of them would... Oh, for sure. The, the Mark 4 Supra was this close to being on my list- Yeah ... because I [00:59:00] drove- Mine too. Yeah ... I drove it for the first time in, like, I don't know, 2000. I have a bone stock one right here. And, and I just, I just was so unimpressed by it.
That's- And I, and I thought it was gonna be- Yeah ... like, a hero car that- No, I don't know ... I didn't respond to. I have a 100% stock Mark 4 Supra twin turbo. Yeah, and it's brilliant. And it was automatic at one point. Yeah. And it... Like, automatic, it was a... not a car. It wasn't even worth- It's a Lexus, actually. I, I cleaned it up.
I, like, restored this thing, and then I never drove it because the automatic was so trash, and now it's V160, and it's Which one's the V160? Is that the- The, like, OEM six speed. Oh, it's, that's the good- Yeah, yeah, yeah ... that's the hard to get one? The, yeah, yeah The good one? The very expensive one, yeah. Random, random hot take, the best of the golden era JDM cars are all the front-wheel drive cars.
In terms of- Hmm ... in terms of the experience you expect versus the experience you get. Like, like- I disagree. The Skyline is- I disagree too ... like an integ- and an, and an- The Sky- the Skyline is the shit, dude ... let's maybe remove that one, 'cause I think- 'Cause that, no, 'cause then, and that's gonna get into my- Okay
that's gonna get into my R35 conversation. But maybe say US- Okay ... the cars you could get. Sure. [01:00:00] The Japanese '90s era cars. Yeah, the sport compacts were dope. The super was expected to be, like, I think all of those cars, the NSX, we've already talked about that. Yeah, I think, like, DC2 Type R out the box rules.
But, like, the Inte- I was gonna say, the Integra Type, the Integra Type R- The Civic SI '99 rules too ... that, see, that's my point. Yeah, yeah. Like, you get into those cars, and they're actually really, really good, because I think your expectation for them isn't to be what you- Yeah ... thought a super was gonna be.
Yeah. I, Supras weren't anything to me until Fast and the Furious. I had rich friends in high school that drove Mark IV Supras- Hmm ... brand new. Wow. And, like, they were nice cars, but it wasn't, they weren't the thing- Yeah, wow, that's interesting ... that they are now. See, for me, super was, like, the first big horsepower car- Yeah
that I was seeing in New York. Like 500- Yeah ... horsepower Mark IV Supras. Same. Yeah. It's like, so those were the first really fast cars I got into. I think I was just probably focused on Mustangs at that time. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, it's just like, who are your friends- Yeah ... and who are my friends, and whatever.
They- So obviously my friends were trashier than yours. Let me, let me, let me rewind back to the R35. So, and you may not remember this as much, Vin, 'cause you were a [01:01:00] bit younger, but, like, the buildup and the hype for the- Yeah ... GT-R, the new GT-R coming, and the first GT-R that America was ever going to have was Like just, it was, it was massive Yeah It was massive.
And then it finally landed, and I got flown out to Reno-Faehly to drive, to do the first US launch at- Reno-Fernley ... Fern- yeah, yeah, yeah. Wrong name for it. Oh, RIP. By the way, what a fantastic racetrack. RIP to a- It was, it was built- ... no longer with us ... it was really a m- a motorcycle track. Yeah But it was super tight, really fun, had that banked section.
Yeah Um, and it was right outside of Tahoe, and it was- I did my first ever wheel-to-wheel race there Oh, really? In 2010, yeah. You know the track still exists and it's for sale? No way. No way. Or it was for sale for a while, yeah. Let's fucking go. Let's get in on it, yeah. Let's go. But, um, amazing, amazing, fun, like, technical track.
But anyway, they did the launch there, and I've never wanted to like a car more and not like it. Like- Yeah ... uh, it just felt heavy, it felt big, it felt everything. And then I had only, I had driven an [01:02:00] R33 at that point. I guess I'd driven an R32. I'd driven Suppy had an R33. You remember Suppy? Mm-hmm He's at AI.
Oh, he's lovely. Yeah, and like, those were, like, I had driven all of those and I was expecting this to be the spiritual successor, and it wasn't. It was like- No, it's a totally different car ... it couldn't have, it couldn't have been as far from that car as possible. That's not making the R35 a bad car, but I feel like it was put on this massive pedestal and it j- it just did not deliver t- for me.
I never had an interest in driving one again. I got to drive it on track. I got to street drive it. I had one for, like, a week, but, like, a- after that I was like, "Okay, I'm good." And, like, occasionally I'll see one pop up and I'm like That'd be like a good daily. Like, like, like- Nah ... but, and I get- It's funny, 'cause I just saw-
if you can do 2,000 horsepower with them- Yeah ... like, they're great, like- It's funny, 'cause I really want one as a daily. No you don't. I've only driven an R35 race car. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, never a street car, and I still, like, I need to get a daily, and I was thinking, I was like, "Oh, maybe I'll just get a R35." Yeesh.
Like, that'd be cool. I would not. There, so here's the problem, huge on the outside- Small in ... small on the inside. Yeah. [01:03:00] Yeah. And then they, they drive, like, real clunky. Yeah. Mm. Like, it's a lot of, like, bangs, and clunks, and shit. Steering's really disconnected. Engines sound good, and, and I, I've seen this a couple times where they're so boring that people will do- Yeah
the 800 kit, then the 1000 kit, the 1200 kit, the fif- I met a guy who was at, like, 1500 horsepower, and I drove it, I was like, "This is a psychotic car." You know, it was- It was- It was getting one gallon, one mile per gallon on E85. And he's like- You're literally- ... "I think, I'm thinking I'm gonna get the 2000." I'm like, "This isn't enough for you?"
It auto-asphyxiates you while you're driving- Like, yeah ... just so you feel something. Like, how boring is this car that, like, 1800 isn't enough? Yeah. Like, what the fuck is wrong with you? Um- I think I- And then I drove a 997.2 with PDK. Turbo? Just- Incredible ... once Porsche figured out the... I went, as soon as I drove a Porsche dual clutch gear box, I went, "Well, there's Nissan's first mover advantage.
That just wiped that out." Yeah, I drove a 997- Well, and that was the original selling point. Yeah. Yeah. I drove a 997.2 Turbo [01:04:00] S, stock. Mm-hmm. The tits. In-cred-ible. The tits. Holy, also, that car will mop up just about anything on the road still. Yeah. Yeah. Like- Yeah ... so sick. So- But, like, I just feel like the GT-R, the, whatever, the R35 GT-R, only holds its status because it holds the GT-R name.
Yeah. Like- Yeah, it's not a Skyline- Yeah ... for sure. It does- the things that I love about a Skyline are not present in that vehicle. I don't know, 'cause, I mean, now that I, I've been dailying an R33 GT-R, um, it lives exactly like what you said. Like, it's massive on the outside. Yeah, I mean- I park it in my garage, and my garage is small.
I hit my, like, Viper chair- every time, 'cause I'm like, "Am I in all the way?" It's so big. It's a sedan that's as big as my station wagon, but small on the inside. That's funny. Like, I don't think someone could sit behind me. That's like the Continental GT- Yeah ... road origin. Remember that? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It was like, it felt like a compact car inside- Like, if you, if you-
even though it was massive ... when we go outside, you, like, take a step back and look at the size of the R33. 33 is a big- [01:05:00] 32 is not so much- Yeah ... but 33s are big. But 33s and 34s are- Yeah, 33s are good ... massive cars. Yeah, they're big. Yeah. But they, I th- there's, I think there's so much to be said, I'm sure you fucking know, for driving manual.
Like- Yeah ... the, the 34 does have that semi-active all-wheel drive. It's got the rear steer. It's got the Gran Turismo gauges. Like, a lot of that same shit that's in the later car, like, is there. Yeah. But the fact that it's stick keeps it honest. Alive. I mean, the thing for me for the R35 is it looks like it was carved out of granite, and it feels like driving granite as well.
Like, it's just way too heavy. I, I, I don't know. But I wanted to, it's one of the few cars I really, really wanted to like and just couldn't convince myself to like it. And that's literally what I've heard from everyone. Yeah. Which is crazy. They- It's amazing that it then lasted for, like, what feels like 50 years.
They've made the same- '07 to '25. Yeah. The same- Crazy ... pretty much the same exact car. Yeah. And what's crazy is some of them are somehow, like, investment grade- I just saw Doug- ... which I don't understand why ... did something where it's like that's one of the, like, least [01:06:00] appreciating cars. 'Cause at one point I was like, "Oh, I'll buy an R35 'cause they have to be, like, dirt cheap by now."
No. Right. They have a floor. They all have a- They've made- They made- They've made, like, a million of them. They made enough It's like just the right number to where they'll depreciate to like 55,000 bucks- Yeah ... and stay there for eternity. Yeah. They're never gonna be cheap. Yeah. But which is weird, is I still don't see them a lot.
That's- Like, it's not like something I just see cruising on the highway a lot. No, when I, when I do see one being driven around, like in normal traffic, it definitely makes me turn my head and be like, "Oh, cool." Oh, look. There's one. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. We saw them more a few years ago- Yeah ... and I think the ones that are left have been put away.
Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. But they just, I, I, I found them to be, driving them is a forgettable experience to me. That's- It's effective. I love that phrase. It will put down a lap time- Yeah ... get out of it, walk away, and go, "Yeah, okay. I'm done, done with that now." Yeah. I mean, I had an amazing day with that car, 'cause I spent the day with Steve Millen, and it was one of those days where all the other journalists are like, "I'm gonna go eat the cold chicken."
And I just had like an open track day with him. Steve Millen and a racetrack is- Which was super [01:07:00] rad ... yeah. So the ex- and even in that, even having one of- If that was a Sentra, you would've had a good time also. Well, and that's the point. Yeah. Like, it, even that day was so... I was put in a picture perfect world, right?
It was the comedy club moment- Yeah ... for that car. Yeah. And I still wasn't sold. Yeah. Sure. Which was like, oh, what a depressing moment. And I still see people put that car on this like second, like- You know what I'd rather drive, straight up? I just went on the launch for the new Z Nismo with a stick. Yeah.
Lovely. Oh, really? Insane. It's just lovely. I wouldn't even think... I don't even, I forget that that car came out. Yeah. Right. You don't, you don't see them. You never see them. Yeah, you don't see them. Like, talk about a car that had such fanfare in the 350, 370 world- Yeah. Yeah ... and then literally- It just took them- I can't remember the last time I saw a 400Z.
It took them too long to deliver it. Yeah, yeah. I felt that way about when the- I think you can get them now, but people have kind of mentally forgotten or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. But the, the, the z- the z- uh, the Nismo version, steering wheel to tires, ass to tires- Huh ... I mean, dialed- Nice ... really nicely. Like a proper driver's car.
Ni- I tested it at Sonoma. Lovely. 'Cause we keep having this conversation, is like what [01:08:00] is a modern driver's car? There's not a lot of these left, dude. Right. I mean, this thing is under 70 grand. G- G- GR86 or 370, or 400Z. Well, the Nismo- Yeah ... is, is more Is mid The Nismo is like 68,000 bucks Is it much better than like a GR86 though?
I, the Nismo is like competes with like an M2. Oh, wow. Ooh, okay. And I'd rather own and drive the Nismo than the M2. Wow, okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool. Wow, that's big. Something to put on the list. Yeah. The M2 is like hellaciously powerful. Yeah. Yeah. But- I don't like it ... I don't really like using it that much unless I'm drifting or something.
Yeah. Speaking of M products, um- M3 ... yeah, E30 M3. So- Yeah ... just to start, I'm not a big BMW guy. I think the E30 M3 is one of the coolest looking cars of all time. 100%. Sure. Like, like it is just there for me. Homologation cars are- I would- ... objectively good ... I would, I would go buy one. Arguably, its homologation is what makes it suck, right?
Yeah. Because they had to have a- The four cylinder ... a four cylinder, high revving, which means that like normal driving is kind of painful in it. Yeah. Because if you're not over four grand, it doesn't really do much. 50 to [01:09:00] 80, it's a great time. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great time. And like I'm, and if you're only driving by yourself on track, I'd imagine it's really fun, but it's definitely slower than everything else that's kind of out there now.
I just had an E30 M3 last year, was it? Yeah. I think it was last year. Not, not even that long ago. The white one, right? Um, absolute, like driving it- felt cool, 'cause you're like, "This thing is the coolest looking fucking car." Yeah. Take it out to dinner, and you're like, you feel classy in it somehow. Yeah. Yeah.
Like, it's cool. Driving it was the most boring experience ever. Yeah, they're dull. And because it's not like... Look, I like slow cars, but it had no theater. Yeah. No induction noise, no exhaust noise, no anything. Which is weird, 'cause the S14 does have, like, ITBs- Like, you can make it do stuff ... like, it has ITBs.
Yeah. Like, it looks the part. Yeah. Like, when you pop the hood, everything visually checks... It checks every box you want. Yeah. Yeah. The dash is perfect. Like, everything, the- I think, I think you could- ... the box flares are perfect ... you could make it pretty exciting. I did one major thing wrong, but if you did, like, an intake, like- Yeah
carbon air box, you did a good exhaust, do a quicker ratio steering rack, and a [01:10:00] smaller steering wheel- Yeah ... I think you can make it work. The one thing that I screwed up that I would've never thought about was, I was telling someone, I was like, "This thing s- just, like, sucks. Like, even in the canyon, it's, like, so boring."
And they were like, "You got two new of tires on it." Yeah. They're like, "You're running Yokohama AO52s," like, one of the greatest street track tires right now. They were like- It's too much tire ... "There was too much tire." They're, these cars came out running bullshit. Like, you need, you need a little bit of, like- Uh-huh
slip. Yeah. Like, it needs to be a little looser. I could see why- More compliance ... somebody would say that. H- what happened? Oh, it was just so boring. Oh, do you... Oh, I thought you were gonna tell me that- No, no, no ... no, just to make it a better car. I just felt, I felt like it was so boring- Oh, yeah ... 'cause it was, like- Yeah, but-
low powered and amazingly hooked up. Right. So you're just like- Sure ... like- So I- ... you couldn't get any drunk driving ... no mileage. That makes sense. Yeah, yeah. The best, I mean, i- i- you know, talk about back... It's, like, it's too valuable to be in the same world as the Fox Body, but, like, I've... If you're driving one with, like, an S54 in it- That's my dream build
the, the E30- My dream build ... with an S54- Mm-hmm ... and a six speed is top three driving cars I've ever driven. I'm so upset, 'cause somebody reached out to me on [01:11:00] Instagram and offered me a E30 M3 roller in red, and I was like- Yep ... "I will wire you the money tomorrow." Yeah. Tomorrow came, and he was like- Was sold
"Oh, I'm sorry. I put it on Facebook Marketplace last night-" Yeah ... "and someone offered more." It was gone in two minutes. 'Cause I was gonna S54 swap it- Yeah ... 'cause that's, like, 330 wheel horsepower in a... I, you don't need- What? ... to use an M3. You- You can use any- Yeah, yeah ... decent 3 Series chassis. Totally. It's like, it'll be fine.
Yeah, yeah. It, it is the most perfect front engine, rear drive- Yeah ... just enough, too much- Yeah ... kind of fucking, you know, vroom. Yeah. So the greatest. Yeah. I mean, the greatest. Packaged in something that looks incredibly cool. Yeah. Yeah. I think, actually, the biggest issue I have with the E30 today is the price versus fun version of it.
Sure. Brutal. When it was a $10,000 car, it was amazing. Sick. Now it's, like, a 70 to $80,000 car. Yeah, I sold mine for $75,000. Wow, which is crazy. Dude, I just sold for a client a really nice 325is, the six cylinder. Yeah. Black, black. It had, it had m- Late model, like, plastic bumper car? It was, [01:12:00] yes- Yeah, yeah ... painted bumpers.
Nice. Painted bumpers, IS. Yeah. And it was, it had miles on it, over 100,000 but less than 200,000. 20, 24,000 bucks. Sick. Yeah. That's, that right there is like- Even still pretty expensive, but like that's like a nice car. Yeah. That's a really cool car for the money. It didn't need anything. Nice. I mean, that, if you, if you, but it, let's say you wanted one to do an engine swap, you, 13, 15, I mean- Yeah
it's more than you wanna spend- Yeah ... but it's not like, you know- Yeah, it's not that crazy. Speaking of Lexuses, the LFA is a car for me that belongs on the list. Like, because I've never driven one, but yeah I, I drove it new, and it was, like, a little bit better than the GTR Mm-hmm Right? And now people sh- p- put it in this halo, 'cause I think- Million bucks
no one owns one. All right And it has become this crazy car, and I guess, like- Counterpoint No, no, I'd love to hear it. I just was not that impressed by it, and all of a sudden, like three months ago, I realized that everyone thinks it's the coolest car that existed in the period of time. I have a buddy that has two, and he thinks they're incredible.
They're- But- I think they're cool. So here's the thing. The, the tech that went into it- Yeah ... the carbon loom and all that shit [01:13:00] is wild. Mm-hmm. The, the sound of that engine is- It's inc- it's incredible. It's incredible. It's incredible ... very, very special. Yeah. And although the single clutch gearbox is not great- Mm-hmm
it's not as bad as Ferrari or Lamborghinis, actually. That's true. That's true The- and they're super, super dependable. Those cars really work. Of course, it's just, it's a Toyota They work really well. And honestly, sound is such a big part of it. It is 'Cause, like, I had said the, the R33 I have has, like, a bunch of mods and stuff.
Yeah And I had to, I've been, I drove it a lot before we tuned it, uh, 'cause it came from high altitude, and I fell in love with it just 'cause of the sound. Yeah Like, so I could imagine driving the LFA, even if, like, it lacks a lot of chassis dynamics that aren't good- It just sounds so crazy ... like, just hearing a V12, you're like, "This is fucking cool."
Yeah, yeah. Yeah The chassis dynamics aren't bad. It's front- No ... mid engine. It drives pret- it, you know, it drives as good as- Ooh ... a nice Corvette drives. Like- Front mid engine Yeah. I like that. The whole engine, the whole engine's behind the front axle. Yeah, that's sick. Technically what it is, yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's what Astons are too, right?
They, like, fall into that. Yeah The DB12 is. I don't [01:14:00] think the Vantage- Yeah ... quite is- I don't think the Vantage is ... but the Ferrari- Yeah ... 12C is front mid. Yeah. Uh- Cool ... and the 812 is front mid, yeah. An AMG GT was front mid. Yeah. 2000. That's 2000. The Hu- the Hoonicorn was front mid, by the way. Yes, it was.
'Cause we moved the engine back far enough to make it front mid. Pretty cool. Yeah, it was. Yeah. Yeah. All right, and then lastly, as we mentioned, I don't really have much to say on it other than I grew up absolutely loving the Ford Cosworth, and I thought it was one of the coolest cars ever. And then I drove it, and the all-wheel drive actually made it worse.
Wait, hold up. Who? Hold up. Did you get four? What? Did you get four? No, no, no. I w- I said, "Look, it's either the Fox Body or the whatever." We took, we, we, we went, we talked about the Fox Body- Oh, okay, okay ... even though it didn't make it. Yeah Honestly, ho- honestly, I didn't have, I, I, I thought you would pick the E30 M3, so I figured that was gonna get knocked out.
It was so close So I walked out with that. It was so close to being on my list, but I didn't. Yeah. Yeah. I got to drive, Ken ordered one, came from Italy, showed up, and I'm like, "I get to drive this car?" It's like this dream moment, and it was at Hoonigan. And I drove it, like, four blocks, and I was like, "I don't wanna drive it anymore."
Like, like, like, like I didn't [01:15:00] wanna know how much worse it could get. Yeah. Like, I was just like, "Hmm." Every block, your opinion of it just gets worse. Yeah. It's like, like it made the noises. Like, psh. Yeah But then I'm, like, looking and, like, the Altima's passing me. I'm like, "Okay, it's not fast." Yeah It was just kind of clunky.
There's nothing worse than- The steering felt disconnected. Like, nothing about it was that great So I've driven a, an Audi S2 Quattro short wheelbase. Yeah, yeah Zuckerman's car. Yeah One of the weirdest, most terrible driving cars you've ever seen. Yeah. It was like, he sold it for $450,000 or something- Yeah
and it drove like straight trash. The, the Ur-Quattro was, like, almost there on the list for me- Yeah ... but I think the other ones were worse. Man, I get so bummed thinking about, like, driving the hero cars for the first time and realizing they suck. But that- Like, that's like, that's like, it's like, is like a huge buzz kill.
Okay, so he- I, I drove an incredibly disappointing Lancia Stratos too once. Ah. It was, it w- Don't, don't- It wasn't, it didn't ruin all Stratos's- It's all- ... but this one was as, as raced in the Monte Carlo. Mm. It was a race car. I think- As raced in the Monte Carlo Rally. Ooh. So the, it was a quick change rear [01:16:00] end, so top speed, red line, fifth gear, 78.
Love it. Probably so, probably a riot. All right. And we gotta do an episode- So- ... that's like the opposite of this, which is, like, cars that look whack but are insanely fun. Oh, yeah. Like, that would be great. I totally would do that. Yeah. A million of those, yeah. It's a more positive episode than this one. Yeah.
So, um, all right, so this is now the point in the show where we, uh, we go check on the Patreon list. So this is basically cars that they mentioned that maybe, like, you know, we've, uh, we've looked over. Should we just thumbs up, thumbs down those real quick? Whatever, yeah, what- how- however we wanna, however we wanna go about it.
So, um, just we got IROC Camaro, yeah, that's definitely there. This one, the bug eye STI No, it's a good car I think it's a great car First off, all STIs drive the same, so- Yeah. Yeah, yeah ... it's, you can't single out the bug eye as being better- No, they're great The bug eye had a little bit less power, but, like, not- But that's not like a-
negligible. Yeah. They're also- It was still a great car. Yeah. Yeah. Why? Since all STIs drive the same- Yeah ... then you c- Nine- '90s MR2? I never drove one. The rounded ones, those are actually quite [01:17:00] lovely. Yeah And you can do a lot with them. I've driven some set up ones. Yeah. I said '95 Mustang. I think actually they're, I think they're...
If you, if it's, if you view it as a hero car, sure, it's disappointing. If you view it as a cheap used car- Yeah ... that you're gonna buy- SS95 is not a hero car ... they're not that bad. He also had Fox Body and AE86 Corolla. I don't put that as a hero car. It's not a hero car. That's a, that lands in the same world as like a GTI- Yeah, yeah
or like a- Yeah ... like a, like a Civic. For sure. And like, sure, you could have wanted a Civic or that, but it's not a hero car. You could argue, though, that, that the IROC-Z and the Fox Body also are that, but just American versions. Yeah, that's true. It's, that is true. I, I, I don't know. I think a, I think to a particular group of young kids, like because of Initial D and, you know- Okay
drifting, the 86 was definitely put on a pedestal. I have driven multiple 86s- I have only driven modified ones ... that were set up for drift c- and for s- Yeah ... set up for dr- Yeah ... and they were awesome. Yeah. Yeah. I think they, I have one. They did not disappoint at all. I think the 86 is great. They were, they were fucking great, dude.
I think it's great. Was it a bla- a black top? Is that the right [01:18:00] engine you want, or a silver top? What's the good engine? No, the, the good engine you want in those is the BEAMS. Yeah. Oh, the BEAMS. Or like a 20 valve 4AGE- Right, right ... or like a 4AGE or something. Yeah, the 4AGE. No, but within- The BEAMS ... the 4AGE, there's, what, the black top- There's the black top
and the silver top- Yeah ... and one has the better head. Yeah, yeah. I don't fucking remember, but they rip. Yeah, they're fun. Yeah. Dodge Viper? Low experience. Well, here's the thing. A, a V- I kind of love the Dodge Viper, but I also know what it is ... it's not a Do- It, it, it is exactly the thing that everyone fucking tells- Yeah.
Nobody should be surprised by a Viper at this point. Yeah. They're exactly what everybody- Yeah ... says they are. You know what, though? If an asshole was a car, it's a Dodge Viper. I think a Dodge Vi- It's great ... I, I have no experience in them, so I can't say, but I always joke that I'm like, "Oh, a Corvette is not a, not a sports car, and it's not like a supercar.
It's a Corvette." Yeah. Like, it lives in its own world. And I completely disregard Vipers in, in existence 'cause I don't consider them- A Viper is more supercar than Corvette- Hmm ... because it's ergonomically worse- Yeah ... and just, like, stupider in all these ways, right? Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Um- Interesting But it's also way more raw.
Yeah, it is. Like, a, a Viper [01:19:00] is if, like, a bunch of old guys who sit around with muscle cars was like, "We're gonna build a race car"- I wanna drive a- ... it's like that's what they would build Yeah. I wanna drive a Viper. I've never- Have you never had dr- never? Never driven a Viper. So they're really int- so the early, early cars are- Which, which is your favorite gen of the Viper?
So I have a, a very specific taste. Can I, can I, can I pause you and just say- Yeah ... that I hope that the only Viper that is your favorite is the guy in Venice Beach? Oh my God. Oh, that guy. Dude. With the, with the bicycle in it? Yeah. That is- Is that guy up to, like, 220, 230,000 miles? I s- I saw that car at 197.
Yo, like, my favorite guy. My favorite guy in the industry. Hold on, just for the audience, this guy had a Viper. He would leave the top off. He would just leave it parked at the beach. There would just be, like- Matt would, Matt would post it, like, once every other year ... I know this guy. You know him? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah. It's a '92. He's had it since new. It is the biggest pile of shit. It's his only car- Yeah ... and it has, it is returning to the earth in real time. It, it is basically- Yeah. It's probably what Hank Moody's 911- Yes ... was based on. Yes. It's pr- probably. I love it. You know, he, you know, he had the interior redone, like, two years ago.
He needs to. So the seat, he definitely called Cat Skin. It's like that Cat Skin- Yeah. Yeah, yeah ... interior. [01:20:00] But he drives it. It's not like this thing just sits. He drives it daily. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. The headlights are so faded- It's stout ... that they definitely can't let light out of them. No, it's stout. Like, it's...
He has the softbox edition headlights. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, early cars are raw as shit, no windows, no AC. I mean, the, and they drive like garbage. Yeah. They're really bad. The, the gen one and a half is where I like. Ooh. That's a '95, and that's where they went to the rear exit exhaust instead of the side pipe. Mm.
Yeah. They sound more like Gallardos or R8s than they do UPS trucks. They also added glass windows, a hard roof, and air conditioning. But they're still pretty raw. Like, they, they also added three things that come in almost every vehicle- Right ... on the planet. Right. You added glass windows? Yeah. I was like, "This man is crazy."
Glass windows, yeah. And- And you don't get your calf burned- Right ... which is, like, a real thing with Vipers. No, it actually is a real problem. Like, you really get burned. Yeah. And then, you know, a- a- and they get newer. The, the, the 2015 to 2019 era, they're, like, almost nice- Yeah ... but they're [01:21:00] still pretty raw in terms of long throw clutch- Yeah
you know, big Tremec shifter. Those, like, ACR Extremes are trading for crazy money now. So I don't really like the... They're a lot. Like, they're just a lot to- Look at, yeah ... you know, to, to, to be around and to be in and, you know, things. Have you driven one on track? Yeah, I have. They're, they're f- They're fun.
They feel like closer to a race car- They do ... than a lot of street cars. But, but I dr- I, here's the mistake, I did it back to back. It was Shelby GT350R versus- Uh-huh ... Viper ACR, and if I didn't care about the ultimate lap time and I just wanted to have fun at track day- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah ... the GT350R sounded better, it was more playful, it was much more comfortable, and I'd rather spend time lapping a track in the Shelby than the Viper.
But if someone tells me they got a Viper, I go, "Yeah, okay, I get it." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. This one, back on the show again, Mitsubishi 3000GT- Yeah, they kind of suck ... VR4. They kind of suck. They look so cool. Yeah. They were like a Gran Turismo icon, but- How about this? They're also really heavy- Team, Team Dodge Stealth
and don't handle well. Team Dodge Stealth RT. Yeah, yeah, [01:22:00] same thing. Yeah. I know, but I like- Yeah ... that wing they did, the sick little wing. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay. I like that. I can see that. I can see that. Um- That's like, that's like the Clark Kent glasses. I thought they were different cars for a couple years.
I mean, that whole DSM era was so confusing. Yeah. 'Cause you're like, "Wait, I don't get it. Like, that's American, but that's not." Yeah. And that was also, like, during the era where people- He fucks an Eagle. Yeah. I forgot about Eagle. Eagletown. Oh, yeah, the Eagletown. Yeah. Which was basically- An XD ... it's an Eclipse
TSI. Yeah. It's an Eclipse, yeah. Eagletown TSI. I got a, back in the day in high school, I took whatever I was driving, I guess it might've been my Subaru, to the dealer for service, and I got a Plymouth Laser as a loaner. Mm. Insane. Which is the, the Mitsubishi fucking Eclipse- Yeah ... but as a Plymouth. Do you realize, like, how many- Wonderful
do you realize how many cars just got sold to us as Japanese? 'Cause, like, we'll just rename it something American. It's like coming here and being like, "Your name's now Johnny." Like- My first car- ... there's like this, the sidekick ... was a Mercury Villager Nautica Edition. Which is a minivan Sounds rich There was [01:23:00] the Mer- was the Nissan Quest- Must be nice
but with a Mercury badge on it Oh, interesting And it was those fashion house collabs where it was- Oh, of course ... Nautica clothing The Eddie Bauer era Right. So I had, I had blu- it was blue over white Ooh. With Nautica crests on there That's kinda hot Couldn't tell me nothing It's kinda hot. Yeah. That sounds pretty sick My first car was a minivan, too I was flat people.
Yeah. This is the, this is some seriously- Yeah, I had a, my parents gave me a hand-me-down Dodge Caravan that had gotten rear-ended and was just taped closed on the back Oh, dude Yeah, that I would, that I loved 'cause I could throw my BMX bikes in it and head to the hills. That's all that really mattered Yeah But, uh, yeah, I, uh, minivans are like a weird first car in that era I, I loved it Honestly, I would say- I loved it I would, I would say a minivan's more reckless than like a ki- like I had a hot hatch as my first car- Right
I had a Mark III GTI. But, uh, like a minivan's almost more reckless 'cause like that's like, yo- 'Cause you could kill- You're the dude who's- You could kill seven people in that car You're packing all your friends in that and doing degenerate shit 100% I was that guy- Yeah ... 100%. [01:24:00] Like I, I went from the, I was, I ended up- Yep
in my mom's minivan, but from there I went to sports car Yeah I was much more dangerous as a human- In the minivan ... in the minivan 100%. For sure. Yeah. In the mi- for sure. So the rule for me was I was only allowed to have two friends in the car Yeah I couldn't pack it out, which of course I never listened to.
Yeah, I didn't- Yeah ... I didn't pay attention- All right ... to anything like that. Mo- all right, mo- mo- moving on on the list, we've got, um, Jaguar XJ220. I don't know. I drove that. It was pretty cool, but it like fits that time period for me. I, it- I don't know, just look at it. It's sick. Yeah. I think they're pretty awesome.
I can't, that, I've never driven one, but I th- think they're awesome. Somebody just wrote '60s, '70s Chargers. I, muscle cars fit in their own category That's its own category Muscle cars is- It's its own category I remember the first time driving a stock, um, it was like, I guess it was a Chevelle SS or whatever, at Englishtown Raceway, doing the quarter mile.
It belonged to Funkmaster Flex- Fuck yeah ... and he threw me the keys, and he's like, "Take it down, go have fun." And we were do- Was it actually stock? No, stock. Yeah, it was stock. Wow After, I don't know, 50 miles an hour, it was, like, the scariest [01:25:00] experience of my life. 'Cause it was just floating all over the place.
It felt like the steering was doing nothing. Yeah. I was afraid to come out of the throttle 'cause I wasn't sure what was gonna happen, and I got out of the car being like, "Nah, I never want that experience again." Dude, you know what? The first, I don't know, five, six years of my driving life, early career, whatever, the oldest cars I had driven were all American cars.
Yeah. Couple muscle cars- Yeah, yeah ... couple whatever. The first time I, when I came out here and, uh, Dieter Heinz- Mm-hmm ... let me drive his 1955 Gullwing, threw it over. I was like, "What the fuck is..." I had driven a Bel Air and shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, "This is the same year?" What? And then I drove a Porsche 356.
I was like, "Real brakes?" Wow. Like, precise steering. Like, what the fuck? Did nobody ever leave Detroit and try? And the answer is no, they never tried any of this shit. Well, okay. When I- That's insane ... when I, when I, when I first moved to California, I was like, "I need a American car." Yeah. Right? And I'd only driven German cars, so I had- mine's the exact opposite.
I'm like, I'd only [01:26:00] really driven European or Japanese cars at that point, and I'm like, "All right. I'm gonna get myself this cool old..." And I found this, like, it was, like, an old Pontiac. It was a station wagon. I don't even remember what it was. It was, like, a '50, '60s era wagon, and I go to test drive it, and I bring it back to the guy, and I'm like, "Hey, dude."
It's broken. There's something wrong with the brakes. Like, there is something seriously wrong with the brakes. Like, you need to get that looked at. Like, you shouldn't let anyone else drive it. I eventually just realized that's how the brakes work. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, but the, having gone from what I was used to- Yeah
to like that era car, I was like, "This is horrible." This car is garbage. Yeah. It's like people just dealt with that forever. I know. It's crazy. You ever read unsafe at any speed? Yeah. I real- If you haven't, I really recommend it. It's wild. Yeah. Very hard to find right now, actually. Wait, really? I had to spend $200 on a copy.
Wow. You can get it on a e-book. I have, I have- You can down- you can download a digital version ... I have it, I just didn't know it was like a hard book. It's worth a lot of money. Really? It's very hard to find. Yeah, yeah. Who's w- What, what conspiracy theory is trying to keep that off the shelf right now? I don't know.
I don't know. Damn, Nader. I had to set eBay alerts and pay a bunch of money for one. Do you remember when he just ran for president every year? Yeah. Yeah. This man ran for [01:27:00] president every year for, I don't know, forever. He probably was on... He probably was running for mayor this year. You make a lot of good points, honestly.
He really did. His arguments have really held up. Ralph, Ralph Nader made good points, but as a car guy you, like, have to hate him. No, but if you read unsafe at any speed, you're like, "You have to hate GM." Well, he went after the, he went after the Corvair and was like, "This thing's really dangerous." Dude, the Corvair, the Corvair is like 25 pages of a 200-page book, all of which is bananas.
Yeah. Like, the number of people that died in the late '50s by being impaled on the fins of Cadillacs was, like, a lot. Like it was more- At the same time- More than you'd think. Yeah. At this era, kids going for footballs that ended up with a tail fin to the gut, like a bunch. Yo, but this is the same era where they offered a basket that you would put in the back window- I know
to put your baby in above the engine of the Corvair. That's crazy. Like, no one thought about safety back then. Yeah. Like, like- That was sick. What a time to be alive. I know ... American car company cars from 1950 to 1975 underneath were exactly the same. Yeah. There was no development- [01:28:00] Yeah, yeah, yeah ... going on whatsoever.
I mean, I remember we used to sit in the jump seat of like- Yeah ... fucking, uh, of station wagons. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Like, that was sick. My parents would just take out the backseat of the minivan and just let me play Legos on the floor and just drive me around- Bronco. Hell yeah ... like the LIE, like nothing bad happens there.
That's sick. I love that. No one ever crashes on the LIE. All right. Back, back to the list. Mid-2000s Pontiac GTO. Nobody thought those were that. Oh, yeah. It was never- Who's dreaming of those? I think, no. Whoa, whoa, whoa- What, what fucking hero car is that? I think if you thought Holdens were cool because you followed, like, Australian supercar, the...
That was pretty cool. The subbest of sub variants. Yeah, really. Okay, that might happen to be a sub I belong to. Reach. Uh, I would say, and- You're a sub in more than one way ... that car, that car is as good as it looks. Yeah. Supra's on this list a lot. A lot of people dropped the Supra on here. Um- I'll tell you, I'll say, I'll say a nice thing about the GTO- Man, so we threw a T- talk about a sub list- The GTO- TVR Tu- Tuscan.
That's, that is on a sub list ... the, the GTO was built better than the F body cars or the Mustangs- Sure ... [01:29:00] of that particular time. That's what I mean. I think we should- 'Cause it was Australian, and they gave a fuck more ... I think the GTO is as good as it looks. Yeah, it's fine. Like, it's, like, fine. And it looks fine.
Yeah. Like, it's all just, like, like, it's as whatever as whatever could be. Yeah. If they just called it the fucking Commodore or the Monaro or whatever- Yeah ... the Holden was, and you didn't think of it in, as a GTO- It would've crushed, yeah ... it would've been, like, better. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is that it? That's all you got?
Uh, then we also have C4 Corvette. C4 sucks. Sucks. They s- they do suck, except they almost universally drive better than they look. Like, later cars, like, if you drive a later C4, like a '95 or a '96, the steering is, like, really good. I gotta say, I would buy a C4 ZR1. The st- the steering is- What is- ... shockingly good
what is the throttle body injection thing called again? TPI. Tuned, tuned port injection. Yeah. TPI. That's from the era where they would put things like intercooler or, like- ABS ... yeah, like on the, on the- On the badge ... Pontiac Bonneville, it had the ABS- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah ... on the wheels. So sick. Tuned port injection.
[01:30:00] You could do a whole show about cars named after places they'll never be. Yeah. Which we did back in the day, too. That's a good one. But, uh, so early C4s were pretty fucked up. By the end, they were, they put up numbers. The ZR1s for fucking 25 grand used are a serious performance car. That's a cool car. It is.
I would buy a C4 ZR1 for 20 grand. They're, they're pretty cool. That's a sick car. Yeah. Engine developed by Mercury Marine and Lotus, like, pretty rad. Yeah. For, for that kind of money. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I think time will probably be reasonably kind to the later ones, actually. But I drove a Callaway twin turbo, like an '87 C4.
Yeah, yeah. It made 475 horsepower and 600 pounds of torque- Wow ... at 5,100 RPM. The redline was 5,300. It was like a diesel. It was the weirdest... Doug Nash 4+3. Hell yeah. Oh, yeah. The st- it was like driving a semi-truck. It was so odd. That's sick. I wanna do a whole story on Callaway, 'cause I think it's pretty incredible the- Have you met Pete?
No. He's all right. I, it [01:31:00] was like- Yeah, Pete's a good time ... just the, just the wealth of what they've worked on was just great. Yeah. So. Yeah. All right. So we- we're moving into the next, uh, round, which is where- Hurry the fuck up. Let's go ... we basically break this list down. We've got, coming from your list was the Corrin.
Corrin. Your list- NSX ... my list, did we ever decide on that? We didn't vote. Oh, yeah, so what was it? So wait, wait, Cosi, um, E30 M3, and, uh- The R35 ... the R35. Can't say. I think the R35... Oh Hmm. I think the R35 is loser shit What do you mean? Like, I think that go- I think that moves on to the most disappointing because- Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
because it's just, it, it, it's a, it's, it's, it's the car that is for chasing numbers at the expense of feel, and that is loser. It's full mum. I will say I agree. Having not driven a stock R35, I have never heard a good review. Yeah. I've never heard of anyone- But, but it- ... be like, "They're sick" ... but it has [01:32:00] a massive fan base.
There's a massive fan base around that car. Is it just drag racers who are into it, like Mac and all those guys? Certainly runway, runway guys are into it. They love that. Some, some track rats- 200 mile an hour kind of- ... are really into it ... big horsepower. If you really care about your lap time, like s- you could be into it.
Doesn't seem like a car I would wanna drive on track. I know you drove a race prepped one. That was cool. No, it doesn't do it for me- Yeah ... on track. I don't really care. Yeah. I don't find it inspiring really. Yeah. So, so that's what, that would be my vote. Okay, that works. Okay, so now- Okay ... are there two others, either from one of our lists that we feel like we wanna put forward, or from the Patreon list that we would go there?
So like for example, your SL, like does like the SLR move forward? Does the, like, we keep bringing up the Supra. Does that move forward? Does- Yeah, I would s- yeah. What's our list of five? We, we got the three. You got any other two? I mean, you could, you could put a Mark IV Supra in there, but, but- I think all [01:33:00] '90s JDM cars are boring As a whole group They're so boring That's when you get into categories But the GT-R doesn't fit in there, so you, North America- What do you mean?
No, the, oh, North America only, yeah All right, how about this? I would also advance the E30 Well, do you think the GT-R fits in that boring category? No. My GT-R makes 600 horsepower and rules. Um- But- But stock, I, I mean, I've driven stock GT-Rs. They're pretty whatever I've driven a stock one. They're nice.
They're pleasant But they're not, like, amazing No, but they're pleasant They, yeah, yeah Um, I think the E30 deserves to move on, E30 M3 As well? Okay. Yeah. All right. That's a good one. 'Cause there's not e- No, no, I agree ... it's, it's sort of beyond hope once- It's also- ... unless you change the entire engine Yeah I think right now too, it's peak hero.
Yeah. Like, it's a peak hero car Yeah, look at the prices Yeah, they're like $100,000- Yeah ... and, like, not interesting to drive Uh, mine, yeah, I sold it for 75. It had like 150,000 miles on it That's wild Yeah Yeah, like it was not a low-mileage cream puff Yeah It was nice, but it was- It doesn't, like, look or drive like that type of money at all Yeah.
Yeah. That's like, I mean, I have that gripe with 911s. I was just talking to a buddy about- Yeah ... like McLarens this morning, [01:34:00] and you're like, you could buy a McLaren, like a 675LT for $225,000, and that thing looks like a fucking video game. Yeah. Like, it looks like a hypercar. Or you can buy a GT3 that looks like a $50,000 car for 400,000 bucks.
Yeah. And you're like, it's kind of a crazy- Yeah, yeah ... like- Well, air- air-cooled 911s is the best 250 grand you could spend than $125,000 driving experience. Yeah. You know? It's- $125,000? For a great, for a, for a great one I would say $50,000 driving experience Well, I used to, I used to love your thing about E36 M3s They're all worth $8,000- $8,000 driving experience It's an $8,000 driving experience, yeah Yeah, yeah It's my favorite thing People yell that at me out of car windows Yeah.
By the way, by the way- It's, it's my favorite take because I always was like, certain cars, like, do not meet the expectation. Yeah Like, you could be like, you know, your Spider RS and stuff, like, drives like it's worth every penny. Yeah The 360 drives like it's worth $80,000. Yeah Like, it's so fun. E36 M3, 8,000 bucks.
Yeah, the best one He says it so much- The very best one ... that I thought he was the one [01:35:00] that came up with it. And I, I said that, and he's like, "No, no, I gotta give that. I gotta give that to Matt Farah" Yeah, no, I said that, I said that all the time because I drove the best one. I drove BMW's museum-kept and prepped- Competition
lightweight. Yeah It had 915 miles on it, and it felt like a car you'd find on Craigslist. Like fully. The headliner was fucking saggy. Oh, no It smelled like, you know, fucking crayons. Wow. Like, the door card fell out a little bit. The brakes were mushy. I was like- When I- ... "This sucks, dudes. Like, what the..." Yeah, yeah When I, when I was, when I was at the Audi museum, they let me drive a car, and the head, the headliner was sagging, and I was like, "Wow" Happens to the best of us.
It's horrible It's like, yeah, good. Yeah. Oh, yeah. All right, so you got your five. No, we have four. Oh, shit. We need, we need to add one to it. What al- what, did something almost make the cut for you? Was there anything from the list of, that the p- anyone else brought up? No. I'll br- I'll bring back the SLR. I, I think S- for me, SLR or Super are two ones that could come up.
'Cause that was $450,000 [01:36:00] new, depreciated down to about 250 for five or seven years, and is now back to above where MSRP- I forgot that car existed. Yeah, it's a forgettable car Like, when you said, when you said the word Mercedes McLaren, I was like, "Oh, right, I forgot." That was like a big deal when it came out.
It was. Yeah. It was, and it stinks. You know what I, you know what I wanna point out? elephant in the room. Nobody put, like, air-cooled 911s on the list. I was, I thought you would, 'cause I know you have a feeling about early 911s. Even the shitty ones are kind of fun to drive. Yeah, no, I think- They're not worth the money, but they're, like, not bad.
I think a, an air-cooled 911 of any air- year offers a unique driving experience compared to anything else that isn't an air-cooled 911. Yeah. Last night- I was just surprised no one brought it up- Last- ...'cause they are a bit, like, overpriced. Last night I had a dream that I traded something for a 912, and I woke up disappointed.
And the 912 is the least exciting- Yeah ... of the- Yeah ... air-cooled 911s, and I was still [01:37:00] disappointed that- Yeah ... that hadn't happened. You know? I've driven a nine- couple 912s. They're not great. Yeah. Yeah. They're not, they're not great. Just save a little extra, save a few extra pennies. All right, so what's, what's our fifth, what's our fifth piece here?
What do you want- SLR. You wanna throw the SLR in? I feel, I mean, it's that or the Supra. Yeah. I don't know. I haven't driven an SLR, so I can't comment, but I have driven many Supras. Have you driven a, a E55 Mercedes? Yeah. Imagine that, but you're sitting on the rear axle. That's what it is. That's literally- Yeah, that's a really good example
that's basically what it is. Like, like, Shaq bought an E55 and then took it to West Coast Customs and had it modified so he actually sits on the back seat with a extended column. I love that. And they used that as the prototype for the SLR. That, that is an SLR. Ah. Yeah. That's how it drives Being a non-Mercedes fanboy except for, like, four cars, uh, I, I, I'll agree.
It's the only car Gordon Murray's ever worked on that isn't good. Did, did you... Ooh, that's a good one. Hell yeah. That's a factoid. It's Gordon Murray's one bomb. Yeah. Like that sells. Everybody gets a brick, and that's his. Yeah. Yeah, that is definitely... Wow, that's a, that's a good selling point. Have you always been a Mercedes guy?
[01:38:00] I'm not a guy. I like Merc- I think Mercedes- No? ... makes a... I think, I think Mercedes, uh, in all of its existence up until recently made exceptionally well-made cars. Well, I'll say this, I like sports cars. I think Mercedes are cool cruisers. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I would love a SL, you know, coupe Merc- uh, you know, whatever.
I had a 129. It was cool for a daily. Nice. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was all right. Yeah, I feel like my penchant for, like, really appreciating, accepting Mercedes in my life comes with lower back pain. Like, as I get older, I'm like, "Oh, that looks really... I never noticed that before." Yeah. I mean, the other day I was just shopping 123s, which is just insane.
I mean, if you're talking about lower back pain, sidebar, old guys, you need to have the seat rebuilt because it's, it'll be like this. 'Cause they, they, they get a little sloppy Every car my grandfather ever owned, he would rip out whatever interior was in it- Yeah ... and just stick in Recaros. Yeah. Which, like- Smart guy
is, which is cool- Who's, who's your grandpa? Which is cool on certain era cars- Yeah ... but he would do it to, like, a LaSalle. Like, like, he did not care. [01:39:00] He was like, "I just wanna be comfortable." He would go from, like, a bench- "I don't care." To, like, a DT- He's like, I... Yeah, he would do that, and he would stick a good radio in, and my dad would just be like, "Oh, grandfather's so, so trashy."
Oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like that, though. That rules. Yeah. Yeah. 'Cause, like, I don't drive my GTI that often 'cause the seat hurts my back. Yeah. Yeah. By the way, my, my- I, I replace seats in cars a lot. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I, I do it a lot, yeah. My grandfather's the reason I'm into cars. Oh. Real qui- he- Oh, yeah, he had a E-Type
rag- rags to riches story, and he spent all of his money on cars, didn't pay any of his taxes, and then the IRS took all his cars. That's pretty much the story. Nice. No kidding. Hell yeah. What a G. Something like that. Yeah, you know, Italians. Yeah, he- It's how they- That's all I remember about him ... it's how they ride.
Fucking b- b- So ... live hard, live hard, crash out, you know? Yeah, pretty much. Do it right. He only had money for 10 y- They don't know what they don't know, you know? He only had 10, he only had money for 10 years of his life. So he was poor his whole life, and then he made money for 10 years, and when he was, when he was gone, he left none of it.
Like, like- Wow ... he was just like, "I'ma use all of this." That's good, though. Let's go. That's, I mean, that's economically- Yeah ... efficient. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, not a, not- Keeps it going. Yeah. [01:40:00] Keeps the wheels greased. Yeah. That's why I don't have kids. Yeah. Burn right through it. Oh, yeah. Baby, let's go. Yeah, exactly.
Just use, use it all up. Got a trust fund for the cats- Yeah ... and we're all good. All right. All right, so we're moving forward. We got our five cars. Take a little quick break. We'll come back and rank them. Okay. Heat Wave just created my favorite sunglasses of all time, the Easy Rider Photochromic. Maybe it's 'cause I'm getting older, but I've learned to really value what yellow lenses can do for your vision when you're driving at night in your 40s.
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Let's start by ranking them. I think we'll- we'll start with fifth place, 'cause [01:42:00] it's just more exciting that way for me. DeLorean's in fifth place. All right, we need to, we need to re- relist the cars. DeLorean, E30 M3, SLR McLaren, NSX, and- R35 GT-R ... R35 GT-R. I'm putting, bottom of the list means it's, like, not as bad.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Fifth place means- I'm, I'm going, I'm going, I'm going DeLorean in last place because no one expected it to be that good. Sure. I- I- Expectations are pretty low ... I don't, do you? But that's because you grew up after the expectations. I feel like when I was a kid, someone handed me that car and they said, "This is a Ferrari/- Right
Lamborghini competitor, and it's made by the Irish." Right. If- For all- And then if you had, like, more than two brain cells bouncing around, you're like, "That's not good." So you're like, "They're gonna suck shit." I clearly didn't as a kid- Yeah ... 'cause I'm like, "The, but the doors do this." Yeah. For the over 50 audience, the DeLorean will be more disappointing than for the younger than 30 audience.
Yeah. For sure. Yeah. But I'll, I, yeah, I mean, the other cars on our list are probably more disappointing. When you owned yours, did you enjoy [01:43:00] ownership? Because I still want a DeLorean. I lied to myself for a long time. Yeah. I liked a couple things about it, but I mostly lied to myself about it. I like that for you.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I appreciate that. I like that you're honest to yourself. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Why, why not be honest? Yeah. Like, but- You made money- I made money, you know, I made money on it. Like, not that that was the point, but I actually- No, no, no ... I s- I'm like the only person to ever make money on a DeLorean.
I think it's really important if you like cars to also be honest that the car you like isn't the best. Like, I- Sure ... really like Audis. I know they're not that great. Yeah. But I really like them. I don't know why I like them, but that's just what I'm into. Sure. You know? And it's a fucking journey or whatever, right?
Yeah. You move on, like, fuck it. Yeah. You know, buy, sell. Yeah. The problem is- I don't ever sell ... what you never wanna do is publicly, if you're a, a figure, publicly say, "I'm gonna keep this forever." Yeah. 'Cause then they keep giving you shit- Yeah ... until you sell it or blah, blah, blah. Mm-hmm. Like, nah. Yeah. I'm ke- I'm gonna keep this car until one day after I'm bored of it, and then it will be on fucking Bring a Trailer.
Yeah, 100%. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That could be tomorrow or it could be in 10 years. I probably live in, I live in a different world than the two of you guys do. I mean, I've owned that 911 now for almost [01:44:00] 20 years. I get it. I had my C5 Corvette for 18 years. Yeah. Like, I get it, but I just am not gonna... If I keep the car for 18 years, I keep it for 18 years, but I'm not gonna, like, publicly commit to it.
Yeah. I didn't publicly commit to it. I said, "If I ever sell this, check on me," 'cause, like, I probably needed the money for something. Well, you shouldn't say that shit. Yeah, n- I probably would need the money for something. Have you seen me? He'll never, he'll never sell stuff, though. Yeah, if, if life is good, I won't sell it.
Fine. 'Cause, like, my thing is if I don't use stuff, I sell it. Me too. Scotto c- will go, I mean, shit, the last time you drove that 360 was probably when we did that episode. Yeah, 'cause I lost the key for three months. Yeah. But I'm just saying, like, you're, like- Although I did move it the other day, but- ... you're, you're, you're more collector mentality than, like, user.
Yeah. I'm like, if I don't use it, I get, I just fucking get rid of it. I don't, if I don't drive a car for three or four months, it's gotta go. Yeah. I just own too many cars. I own enough cars to almost drive a car every day of the month. So it's like even when I try to drive my cars a lot- Yeah, it's too many
there's always a problem. So it's like I was driving the RS2 the other day, and then I was like, "Oh, shit, there's an issue." Or then I'm like, "Oh, I need to drive this." Yeah, it's a whole reason to not have that many cars. Over 10, 11 cars, you need a guy- [01:45:00] Yeah ... at, at least. Yeah, you need a full-time employee- A staff, yeah
to get your cars running. That's, yeah, I know a guy who's got a place that can help you with this. But, uh, the- No, my, between my wife and I, we have eight, and that is the hard max. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We cannot- It's at, it's at, it's honestly, like, too much, yeah ... we can't... It, it, it is... It, I'm not complaining, but it is- Yeah
actually work to drive all the cars when you have eight. Yeah, you... Yeah, I do the same shit, and the problem is you need, like, a logistics coordinator- Yeah ... at that point. I have a staff. Because- I have a staff. Yeah, yeah. See, 'cause I'm like with my dealership, I can't wait to hire a mechanic- Yeah ... because then there's just, like, little bullshit on my cars- Yeah
and I'm like, I, I've needed to change the front tires on my car just 'cause, like, sizing wasn't correct- Mm-hmm ... forever. But I just never have, like, an hour to sit at the shop- Yeah ... and swap tires. Like- Hence the tires still on my Ferrari. Yeah, right. So okay. All right, let's get into ranking this list. Oh, yeah.
So you think the DeLorean's at the bottom. All right. We shouldn't debate this much about fifth place. We should just- But I'm, I'm pretty- ... accept that we're all- I'm pretty, I'm pretty hungry, so I could be s- like swayed on pretty much anything. The, the, the- I think the DeLorean lives, like, dead smack in the middle for me.
All right, so what's at the bottom? I [01:46:00] think it's, I think it's number three for me. What's at the bottom? All right. Somewhere in that area. What's the least disappointing of your disappointments? I would go R35 then 'cause, like, it's fine. It's just, like, a fine car. Mm. I think it's the... That could be in the middle for me because it does the thing they s- no one ever said this is the most engaging car ever.
They said this is the Nur- It does what it does ... this is the Nürburgring-assaulting- When, when it was c- when it was coming out, though, it was put up against the 911 It no longer is Yeah It's no longer compared to that. But when it came out, everybody- Yeah, and that was their benchmark. Yeah ... everybody was benchmarking against the 911.
Yeah. So I think from my perspective, I always saw that as a 911 fighter, and it was- And it's just not ... it couldn't be farther from it. Yeah. To me, it's, like, closer to, like we said, a Bentley Continental GT. Right Like, it feels more like that, just big, it drives, it's kind of quick. Like, it is what it is. Yeah.
Like, I wouldn't go... I wouldn't pick it to go on track or to go rip around a windy road. I mean, to me, the SLR is the most disappointing, because it was the most expensive, the most [01:47:00] exotic. Right It had McLaren in it. They were, at the time, you know, not making road cars- That's a strong argument ... but they were making the F1.
They made, they made the F1- Yeah, yeah ... they did the Formula- they did Formula 1. I don't know, I ex- I had a lot of expectations dynamically for that SLR, and as it turns out, it was essentially a drag car. Yeah. And s- Having not driven one, I'm just gonna- It was. I was- and I took it drag racing. It was kind of fun- Yeah
except for the overheating part. Uh, having not driven one, I'm just gonna agree, because I feel like at a certain price point, a car should deliver exactly- Yeah ... what you expect. Yeah. And that- Personally, like, magical to drive a 400- So here's a question- This was more expensive, okay, than a Carrera GT- At the time
new Yeah New. Yeah. So fuck that, put it at the end. Well, shouldn't that be number one, then? Yeah, yeah, that would be number one. That's what I was saying. I'm al- In other words- I'm arguing it for number one ... I, I think it's, I- What else would be tied for number one? Only the E30 M3, 'cause it drives like it's 12 grand, then it costs 10X that to get a good one.
Yeah. Yeah. I think E30- 'Cause E30- Yeah ... I think the E30's number one for me. 'Cause it's so slow. 'Cause it's, it's so... It's not even just slow. It's like- Here's, here's why it's, here's why it's high on the list But [01:48:00] if it was still 12 grand, it wouldn't be on it, but right now, it is the car that people think is the greatest car from that era.
Here's why it should be high on the list, is because, as Matt said, you can get a nice 325is, which is essentially the same exact fucking car- Agree ... for 25,000 bucks. With more torque So you're just spending more money for bodywork. For the cool part. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. Yeah, that's a good point. So- And I love them.
I still love them So if that, maybe that's number one, the SLR is number two. No, I'd do SLR number one. Oh, SLR number one- SLR number one- ... E30 number two ... E30 number two. GT-R number
three Or DeLorean The NSX, though. Oh, I forgot about the NSX. I think NSX, I think NSX should be number three. I actually think NSX should be number two. I think NSX should be number three because it is a really great car. Uh, uh, uh- It's a great car, and it's actually, like, I would... If I had an NSX and an E30 M3 parked in the garage together, I would drive the NSX more.
That's true. Because it's a better... Like, the E30 feels buzzy on the freeway. It's not good at high speeds. Mm-hmm. Like, it's [01:49:00] not overly comfortable, whereas the NSX is a fucking legendary car to just, like, drive up the 405 without traffic. It's just not good at the thing that you think it's gonna be good at.
Yeah. It's good at something different. By the way, both of you, if you, if I was to close my eyes and you were to explain to me the NSX, you're basically explaining the Lincoln Town Car. Yeah. You're like, you're like, "It's really good at just cruising up the highway." No, no, no. It's good at cruising up, like, um, like- Like the 101- Like the 101
like open sweepers. Like, it's got some sweepers, and, like, you might- Let's take it East Coast. It's a good Merrick. It's a good, uh- Yes, Merrick Parkway ... Merrick Parkway car. Merrick Parkway. Yeah, that, that. It's a Merrick Parkway killer. Yeah, yeah. Merrick Parkway banger. Which, like, if you think about Japan, like- Mm-hmm
highways with turns. Yeah. Nice car. Yeah, not exactly canyon roads, just flowing roads. Yeah. Yeah, you're not taking it to the touge. Blue Ridge Highway. I mean, if you compare it against all the other 91s, it's fine. It's just that if you revisit it with today's eyes, the slow steering and all that kind of stuff is, like, more antiquated than people talk about.
Yeah. Mm-hmm. So I would go NSX number three, for sure. Okay. So then we just... We went backwards, but let's... What do we got? All right, [01:50:00] so- Four, five. So it's e- it's basically DeLorean or the GT-R. I think the DeLorean is more disappointing than the G... The GT-R put up a fucking number on the Nürburgring. I would say that's where I do...
I think the GT-R's- The GT-R's still very good at some things. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's why I was saying GT-R- All right ... is number five for sure because it's a, it is a good car. It just is, like, not as visceral as everyone- Yeah ... wanted it to be. All right. And it do- it can handle 2,000 horsepower, so that does count for something.
And it could go fast around a lap. It could be daily drivable. All right, so- It's just, like, compromise ... so let me get, let me, let me, let me lay this out here. And coming in in fifth place, the R35 GT-R. Yes. Coming in in fourth place, we have the DeLorean. Yes. DMC DeLorean original. Coming in in third place, we have the Acura NSX.
Yes. Coming in in second place, the BMW E30 M3. And coming in in number one, the Mercedes-McLaren collaboration, the SLR. The only car Gordon Murray's- Sounds pretty good ... ever built that he didn't ruin. I'm okay with that. Yeah. I, I'm okay with that. There's a world where I [01:51:00] could almost flip the whole thing on its head and say, like, DeLorean maybe belongs in number one, but I think that's my age group.
Nah, I mean- Sure ... the only way you could really continue to argue this is if we had all the cars here to drive them and, like, really come to a conclusion. Yeah. But, like, you know, just based on sitting around a table, uh- Yeah ... it sounds pretty good. Trying to remember stuff that we drove 10-plus years ago.
Yeah. Yeah, I- When was the last time you drove an SLR? I mean, I haven't driven one since 2008 Pro- probably 10 years. Yeah. Yeah, probably 10 years. But it was shitty then. Yeah, yeah. No, it was. It hasn't gotten better. Yeah. You've driven more cars that were better. Yeah. By the way- Have, have five speed automatic Mercedes- By the way-
gearboxes gotten better since then? So that day, that- It actually slips worse now. By the way, that day I drove that and a 360. Ah. And I went h- I eventually bought a 360. Bought the 360, yeah. Which was, at the time, a fraction of the cost of the A- of the SLR. Yeah. Like, drove both those for the whole day doing the exact same thing.
It's still a fraction. There's still a quarter of the price- Yeah, yeah ... of the S- an SLR, and you're getting a much better- Way better car ... driving car. And way better sound, too. We used to rent them at Gotham Dream Cars. Yeah. Ah, yeah. The SLRs. I drove them a lot. Oh, [01:52:00] wow. Yeah. That f- first to get a ticket video with me and Rob Ferretti back in the day- Oh, I remember that
I'm driving an SLR. SLR. And in the full video, we choose which car we do, and I, this is '06. Yeah. I go, "I'm gonna take the SLR 'cause I fucking hate that thing." I remember that. I love that. It's the, it's in the full Super Speeders video that never makes it around. Yeah. Just me and the sideburns, dude. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, anyway. All right, well, boys, thanks for coming on- Thanks for having us ... and making the list. Nice little time. Yeah. The five most disappointing- Yeah, I don't know disappointing, most over-hyped. Yeah. Yeah, over-hyped is- It's just an over-hype ... 'cause none of them with the- And by the way, in five years from now, we could do this exact same show, and I think only a few cars would show up on it.
Yeah. 'Cause they're just, I think the perspective always continues to change. That's why I'm happy you brought the SLR out, 'cause I forgot about that car. I didn't even think about that. Yeah. I completely forgot about it. Like E30 M3 I feel like is in the conversation. People are talking about it right now because it's a peak car.
It's, like, probably on more T-shirts for sale right now at Zumiez than, other than Skylines, you know? So- Frank Ocean and- Yeah, exactly ... like, Travis Scott [01:53:00] are fucking with them. Right. It's become culturally really, really cool. Yeah. Yeah, didn't someone just, like, give, uh, what's his name? Oh, yeah. Uh- The- DJ Khaled was it?
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He just got one or something. Uh, Jay- Jay-Z- Yeah ... redid his original or something like that. Something like that, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Here, just to, to, to, to throw out one at the end, con- the contextual conversation of driving a car at the launch versus later- Yeah ... the current Supra, the Mark 5 Supra- Mm-hmm
I went to the launch. It was at Summit Point. I was like, "Oh, this thing's pretty cool." Yeah. "Eh, it's nice. Not bad. Yeah, it's a, you know, goes, stops, and turns okay enough." Yeah, yeah, yeah. Two months later, Road & Track Performance Car of the Year, 12 car comparison test, heinous. Really? It was heinous when you drove it back-to-back with a bunch of other stuff.
The back-to-back thing- It was completely uncompetitive. I was- Interesting ... I was never, like, a big Corvette guy, and then I got to drive a Z06, um, a C6 Z06 back-to-back with a bunch of different 911s, and I was like, "This thing's really good." You know what I was gonna say? Like the, you said the, talking about cars that you drive for the launch versus, like, [01:54:00] like, having for a bit.
Yeah. I think the C8 Corvette lived that for me. Mm-hmm. Like, when I drove it, I was like, "Meh, whatever." Yeah. "It's fine." Yeah. And then we had one at Hoonigan, so I got to, like- Yeah, yeah ... drive it often and keep it for a couple days, and I was like, "Wow, I really like this." It's a great car. It's awesome. Yeah, it's a great car.
I don't love it. Like, it's not a car I would buy, but I'm like, I find it great. It's definitely a car I'd recommend, though. Yeah. If someone was like- So- ... "I wanna buy a car for under 100 grand that's a lot of fun, and I can also, like, drive to the movie theaters," like, that's a good- Yeah. Last year Performance Car of the Year we had the Mustang GTD and the ZR1.
How is that thing? Insane. The, uh, same as the Supra, by itself it's the c- it's crazy. Compared to a ZR1, garbage. Uh, yeah. Oh, interesting. Yeah. I mean, really- Well, the ZR1 is a- Like, like embarrassingly bad ... the ZR1 is a fucking weapon. The Z- It is a, it is a weapon ... the ZR1 is one of the nuttiest cars ever built.
And the, and the, the GTD feels heavy. Yeah. The ZR1 is like a McLaren 750 with better rear traction. Mm. Which one might argue is worse, but, like, like, it's fucking madness. I got to drive the ZR1 at COTA- I think you- 176, [01:55:00] 77 on the back straight in it I did 181. Did you really? On the dash- Wow ... not GPS, but 181 on the dash.
So in a McLaren 750- Every, every lap ... I saw 176 on the dash. Wow. Fascinating. I wanted to throw up. Yeah. That car made me want to puke. It's so fast. The ZR1 is insane. I, I, I texted him, I'm like, "How is it?" He's like, "I almost vomited." Well, there- And I was like, "It's that good?" He's like, "No, I don't know if that's a good-" It, it, actually the Z06 is the one to have.
I like the Z06. It's enough power where you really feel like you're going, but it's not- Yeah ... like that, "Ah!" Yeah, the ZR1 is- You're riding a rocket ... is like one of those things where you're like, "Why do you make this?" Yeah. I took- Like, no one needs this ... so I took, you know, when we d- Performance Car of the Year, they'd sent, um, Multimatic guys came with the GTD.
Of course. And they were, you know, kind of like bumming out. Their boss was down on them, whatever, the Z... And I go, "Have you guys been in a ZR1?" They go, "No." I go, "Get in." And these guys, I hit it, and they both did one of these, you know, where they press their hands. Yeah. And they're like, "Fuck me." And I go, "Yeah, dude," you know?
But also, but also let's think about that, right? Mustang- Yeah ... versus Camaro, not Mustang versus Corvette. Yeah. No, no, no. They d- You know? Yeah. They've done- So it's like- Yeah ... they've done as good a job- But you know what I mean? Like- ... as [01:56:00] they could do- Yeah ... given, given starting with a Mustang. Yeah. It's not like their fault.
It's not they bring the Ford GT- Yeah ... out for that. Yeah. Yeah. But it's just like, you know, you need w- i- i- if you had a day with a GTD in a racetrack, you'd go, "This is awesome." A blast. This is a blast. Yeah. It's amazing. Yeah. But if you have it with both of those cars, you go, "Hmm, well, mm, yeah, not so much."
Yeah, I got to say, I made the mistake 'cause I drove it at, the ZR1 at COTA, and I did not practice on the sim. So it was like- So you're also learning the track in a- I was learning the track- ... too much of a car That's too much car ... in a car that is entirely too much. Yeah. Too much car. Yeah, like that- If you're gonna drive a car that fast, you have to know the track like the back of your hand.
Yeah, yeah. I could take that thing to Buttonwillow or Streets or something like that, Laguna, and pound some laps in it, but like- Yeah ... it's too fast to fuck around. Yeah. Yeah, it is. Like, you can't, you can't fuck around. Yeah. Let, all right, so p- producer Nick asked me this question before you guys got here, "Is there a car, a hero car for yourself, that is so hero, so heroic, so just, like, GOATed, that you actually don't wanna drive it because you know it' [01:57:00] Yeah, no, but- No, there's no car where I would be so afraid of it disappointing me that I wouldn't want to try it.
So I walked into this conversation having the Countach be that. That was the car for me as the kid, and everyone's like, "Ah, you..." Everyone I've mentioned it to is like, "Oh, the car's not really that good," but now you have changed that for me. I mean, look, you just- I'm too tall to ever really drive it properly, but- It's a old-ass design.
It's a, it's an '80s car that was developed in the '70s. I mean, like, it's, it, it has its quirks. Yeah. It's not, it's not- Yeah ... designed to be super user-friendly. I love quirks. I think it, I think it's all very subjective, too. Yeah. 'Cause if you talk to, like, a Huracan owner who- Yeah ... they might be like, "Oh, I drove a D- the, a Diablo or a Countach.
Garbage." Yeah. Yeah. 'Cause, like, they- Yeah ... they're driving, like, a, you know, like, a modern, daily-able supercar. Yeah, yeah. But if you're, like, a dude like you, I would say you're probably a perfect candidate for a- Yeah, you, you would think- ... for a Countach ... a Countach was fine. If you could fit. It wouldn't bother, it wouldn't bother you at all.
Yeah. 'Cause you're like, you're like... Like, you're not trying to go set lap records somewhere. Yeah. You're just trying to fucking have a sick car to cruise. Have fun. Yeah. You know? It's, it's a, it's a very nice thing. It really is. Mm. 'Cause, like, for [01:58:00] me, it's the F40. Just not for everybody. But, like, if I drove an F40, and I just heard it pop and bang and fucking make noises- Uh, you, like, there's just the experience part of it
I'd be like, "This is the sickest thing ever. I don't give a shit." Yeah. I can guarantee you, you would not be disappointed- No, but you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. I think that there's certain cars like that, and I think that's where your issue with the, you know, modern Lamborghinis are, where, like, the experience of just being in it is enough.
Yeah. Like, Pagani Zonda was one of those cars for me. Like, I just got to street drive it, and I was like, "This is sick." I drove, I drove the Utopia last year for Road & Track- Yeah ... the new Pagani. Dynamically, it really isn't all that. Yeah. It's just about... It redlines at 6,200 RPM if we're fucking- No. It does.
It's the AMG twin-turbo 12. It's got no redline. Bunch of torque. That was my problem with the Lotuses. Yeah. The Evora and the whatever the modern one is. This is that, but, but- You're like- ... but worse ... the speedo moves faster than the tach. It does. Yeah, it does. You know? And it's like, we, I mean- ... it's not even a sports car that revs to 6,200 RPM.
It does, yeah. I'm like, "Get me out of this thing." Yeah. The Pagani is, it's a, it's a steampunk thing. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's just about being in this weird- Yeah ... you know, [01:59:00] submarine-y thing. All right. Well, boys- Thanks, buddy ... thanks for coming on. That's it. Nicely done. Nicely done. Shit on some cars. I'll be back.
Yeah.
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