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Work-life balance isn’t a myth—it’s a mission. At The Double Win Podcast we believe that ambitious, high-growth individuals can experience personal and professional fulfillment simultaneously. Hosted by the creators of the Full Focus Planner, Michael Hyatt and Megan Hyatt Miller, The Double Win Podcast is your go-to resource for unlocking secrets to productivity, wellness, and work-life balance.
The Double Win Podcast features insightful weekly conversations with thought leaders, executives, and entrepreneurs sharing fascinating personal stories and actionable ideas for balancing professional success with personal well-being. Whether you're looking for motivation to achieve your goals or strategies to harmonize your career and life, The Double Win Podcast provides the perspectives and tools you need.
Michael and Megan focus on the nine domains of life—body, mind, and spirit, love, family, community, money, work, and hobbies—offering practical advice to help you thrive. Discover how to integrate purposeful productivity and overall wellness into your daily routine, stay motivated, and experience a life of joy and significance. Hit subscribe and embark on your journey to winning at work and succeeding at life.
[00:00:00] Michael: The ability to do it even when you're afraid is the mark of maturity and so I think that whatever it is that life calls on us to do, I think that we've got to step into it. And when we do, those feelings disappear.
[00:00:13] Megan: Hi,
[00:00:16] Michael: I'm Michael Hyatt.
[00:00:17] Megan: And I'm Megan Hyatt Miller.
[00:00:18] Michael: And you're listening to The Double Win Show.
[00:00:20] We believe that you can both win at work and And succeed at life, that's the double win
[00:00:25] Megan: today. We're having a great conversation with our friend, Grant Baldwin, who is a nationally recognized speaker, podcaster and author and the founder of the speaker lab, which helps people start and build speaking businesses.
[00:00:39] Guys, get this. He has spoken to over 500, 000 people in 47 states over the last 13 years. He's also the author of the successful speaker five steps for booking gigs, getting paid and building your platform. And he's the host of the speaker lab podcast. He's been featured in Forbes, Inc, entrepreneur and the Huffington Post.
[00:00:59] And [00:01:00] he's an avid pilot. I'm laughing because he's also a pool enthusiast. I don't really know what that means, but I'm excited to find out. And he's a cyclist. He lives here in Nashville, Tennessee with his wife, Sheila, and their three daughters. And he strives to live his life, get this, like Chuck Norris.
[00:01:18] Michael: Without further ado, here's our conversation with Grant.
[00:01:25] Grant, welcome to the show. It's an honor to be here. And we're doing it in person too. We're
[00:01:29] Grant: just talking about how like this is way more enjoyable. So much more fun. A virtual world that we've all been living in. Thanks. all for joining us. And I look forward to seeing you all on the next episode of the Beyond The Last.
[00:01:34] Michael: Let's start with the most important question. Okay. Why Chuck Norris? I'm dying
[00:01:39] Megan: to know this answer. I do not know the answer. And I'm like,
[00:01:41] Grant: I feel like this is going to be a really disappointing answer. So when I was speaking full time, I was doing 60 70 gigs a year and was doing a lot in the education space and doing a lot with high school students and colleges, a lot with teachers and educators.
[00:01:53] And so one of the things I noticed when I was speaking is I had this like pre prepped, Intro that you wanted them [00:02:00] to read. And sometimes people would kind of get up there and wing it. And they're like, no, no, just read it exactly as it's written.
[00:02:05] Follow the script.
[00:02:06] Grant: Like when, when the, whoever's speaking up there reading through the intro and then you follow, you want whatever the last thing is that they are going to say to lead well into you.
[00:02:17] So it's not just like, please welcome, you know, it's just like, so one of the things I've started playing with is I put this line in there of yada, yada, bio, bio, bio, but the last line was, but ultimately he wants to grow up to be like Chuck Norris. And that's not actually true, but it always got a good reaction.
[00:02:31] I got, I got a great reaction from it and it caused people to laugh. Please welcome Grant. You come up as people are already kind of in that state of mind, they're laughing, they're having a good time. So I know very little to nothing about Chuck Norris. I have no desire to actually be like him, but it worked as a line that worked well to start to build some type of connection and resonance with that.
[00:02:50] Well, it worked with us. So congratulations. It's an open loop there. There
[00:02:55] Megan: has to be a Story here. Like, I've met Joe Flex. What, what is it? You know, there there is, [00:03:00]
[00:03:00] Grant: there is nothing there. It's very a camo. It's like very anticlimactic story. So you need to make up
[00:03:04] Megan: a great story about that. I need to come up
[00:03:05] Michael: with something, uh, a little stronger there.
[00:03:07] So we've known each other for, I don't know, maybe a decade. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. And we're not. Great friends, but
[00:03:14] Megan: I'd like to be, you're kind of mediocre friends. So
[00:03:17] Grant: I was explaining this the other day to my daughters. Uh, I have all girls, as you know, three girls. Yeah. And so we were talking about how I was referring to someone.
[00:03:28] I said, Oh, I have this friend or I have this bud or I have this pal or I have this. And they were like, what's the categories? Like what's the, what is this person versus this buddy? You know, I'm like, But what is a buddy and how is that different than a friend? So I'm sorry to interrupt there, but what would I fit into your schema?
[00:03:43] Megan: Oh, wow. This is a lot of pressure. Michael's
[00:03:45] Grant: going to be, Michael's a friend. Yeah. Yeah. I think you're, you're for now. I'm going to go, I'm going to go buddy category. Okay. He's a buddy. Yeah. Good. Okay. Which
[00:03:52] Megan: one's better?
[00:03:53] Grant: I think
[00:03:54] Michael: a buddy.
[00:03:54] Grant: Yeah. Now you're going to put me on this one. I got to
[00:03:56] Michael: analyze it. Yeah.
[00:03:57] Well, I mean, we're going fishing this fall [00:04:00] together.
[00:04:00] Megan: I know.
[00:04:00] Michael: And so I recently went flying with you. And so, you know, this really does lead into the double win because I feel like you're living it. You've created a, a work life balance that few people enjoy. And I suspect that was very intentional in terms of the way you built your business.
[00:04:19] Was there ever a story where you didn't have that, where you were working like way too much and you just said, this is something that's got to change?
[00:04:26] Grant: Yeah, very much so. One was, if we go way back in time in high school, I was really involved in my local church. Um, my youth pastor had a big impact on my life and I was like, I want to do that.
[00:04:34] Like that seems really fulfilling, gratifying, rewarding. And so I went to Bible college. That was the kind of the path that I was on and, uh, became a youth pastor and there were parts of it I liked, parts of it I didn't like, but one thing I really enjoyed was speaking and felt like I was decent at it. I wanted to do more of it, but just didn't know like, but how do you book gigs?
[00:04:49] And how does this, you know, how much you charge? What do you speak about? Who hired speakers? How does this work? And so as a youth pastor for a couple of years, Part of the nature of being in ministry is like you're always on. It's not like [00:05:00] you clock in and you clock out and if someone needs something or you're always kind of accessible.
[00:05:04] And so I remember at one point my wife and I, we'd been married for just a couple of years. I came home, she's kind of in tears and she's just like, I don't feel like I have a husband. I feel like I have a roommate. And I just felt exhausted and mentally tired. And I think for so long, you look to this career, you know, it could be anything.
[00:05:20] I'm just like, Oh, this is the thing that I want to do. And then you get into it and you're like, This isn't the thing that I thought it was from the outside looking at. I thought it was going to be amazing. I got into it. It wasn't necessarily the case. And so I think that was a big thing that just caused me to think about like, what is it that I really want to do in life?
[00:05:34] And so speaking was a thing that I kept coming back to. And so the second part of that was that I eventually got into speaking and became a full time speaker, was traveling all over and speaking as a high paying manual labor job. And that you get paid really well to stand on stage and run your mouth.
[00:05:48] But the nature of it is you got to get on a plane. You got to leave your family, got to go somewhere, do the thing. It's like a surgeon, surgeon makes really good money to do what they do, but you got to show up and do surgery. You have a job. You don't necessarily have a business. I [00:06:00] remember I was, um, at a point where.
[00:06:01] You can only do so many gigs in a year. You can't do a thousand gigs. You know, you want to go home. You want to see your family. You want them to recognize you. And so, uh, eventually got to a point where I just felt tired. I kind of felt worn out. I was like, well, now what, what do you do from here? You kind of reached the peak, so to speak.
[00:06:15] And I remember talking with a friend, kind of mentor. And he said, you have to regularly find things where the challenge exceeds the skill set, where the challenge exceeds the skill set. Meaning when you first start doing something, you feel way over your head. You know, the first time you speak, you just feel like, I have no idea what I'm doing.
[00:06:29] But over time is it flips and the skill set exceeds the challenge and you feel bored and you kind of feel like you're going through the motions. It's like, I just, I'm kind of on autopilot. This is, you know, this isn't as exciting or thrilling as it once was. Is this the kind of life that I want to have?
[00:06:44] And if I continue down this on the trajectory, it is, is this play out in a way that is satisfying or gratifying to me? And so from that standpoint, it's going like, no, no, I want to, you know, have a business. It's not dependent on me. And it's not dependent on me getting on a plane or going somewhere. And so very much like in terms of business, you know, [00:07:00] we, we've been very intentional, like, what do we want this to look like in our family and our marriage, the same sort of way of, you know, Uh, in terms of travel or homeschooling or moving to Nashville several years ago, we had no reason to of saying like, no, no, this is what we want to look like.
[00:07:13] And we're in control of that, just like anybody and everybody else is. So making hard decisions in order to have the type of intentional life that you want to have.
[00:07:21] Megan: Yeah, that's amazing. You know, as I was thinking about kind of what you do in this world of speaking and so forth, If someone were to ask me, what are the top jobs that would make it really hard to have the double win?
[00:07:32] I mean, speaking would be at the top of the list, you know, ER doc would be up there. Politician would be up there, you know, I mean, there, I think there are certain industries or jobs that you can have or businesses you could build that would be more difficult than others. So I'm so curious, how do you think about speaking?
[00:07:50] Both for yourself and the people that you train in a way that ultimately enables you to have the kind of freedom to live in alignment with your values, which I feel like is kind of what you're saying, you
[00:07:59] Grant: know, even if you were, [00:08:00] uh, you know, a full time speaker, I think again, one of the things is whatever you do as an entrepreneur, again, you get to design what you want it to look like and what makes sense for you.
[00:08:08] So we all know speakers who are killing it do a hundred gigs a year. And those who on the other end of the spectrum do 10 gigs a year. It's not that one is better or worse than the other. It's just, you got to decide what makes the most sense for you and what. May make sense for you, may not make sense for me and what the season of life is that you're in may be different.
[00:08:25] So when we had young kids, it's different than when we have teenagers versus it's different when you're an empty nester. And so what is all these factors combined to look like in a way that makes the most sense for you? And so I did have some reservation about like, boy, the more you're traveling, the more you're just gone, the more you're missing things.
[00:08:40] But also it meant that I was home a significant amount. So if I was going to compare, contrast being on the road all the time. Relative to someone who just had a nine to five gig and was commuting to the office every day. I would have made the argument that I was probably seeing my family significantly more interesting because it's also Like speaking can be very cyclical and seasonal and so you may [00:09:00] have seasons where you're busy.
[00:09:01] You're gone a lot But then you may have like december There's just not a lot of gigs that are happening And so you may be home for a week after week after week eventually my wife's going like Do you have anything you
[00:09:11] can
[00:09:11] Grant: go do off you go, please. And so then you might have a stretch where you're just home all day, every day for a week and week a week, which is another and kind of a related topic of we've homeschooled our girls for several years.
[00:09:24] And so part of the intentionality behind that was just being together as a family a lot. And so I work from the home, my wife, homeschools, our girls, and so on. On one hand, it's like, Oh, this is awesome. We're all together all the time. And on the other hand, you're like, Oh yeah, but we're all together. You know, like we love too
[00:09:41] Megan: much of the double way.
[00:09:42] Absolutely. Like you
[00:09:43] Grant: need a little bit of breathing room there, but again, the point being is like saying, Hey, we want to, we want to value our time together. We want to value the type of what the business looks like and what my responsibilities are as a part of that. And so how do, again, we're all together.
[00:09:55] We design in a way that makes sense to say, no, no, you can have your cake and eat it [00:10:00] too. What you're going to know is ultimately what the double win is. And I
[00:10:02] Megan: like that. That's a creative way that you're thinking about. It doesn't have to necessarily conform to instead of working a 60 hour a week, your goal is to work a 40 hour a week and be done every day at five.
[00:10:12] Like it can have ebbs and flows in it. When these more unconventional industries or jobs, and I think that's helpful for people to hear because sometimes people think, well, if only I was in a regular job, then I could have the double win. And actually with some creativity, it can work. Well, let me give you some
[00:10:27] Grant: other like practical examples specifically with speaking.
[00:10:29] So you know, mutual friend of all of ours that I know has been on the podcast, John Aka, he doesn't do gigs in July. And so he just says, I'm traveling with Jenny. We're going to go do this thing. And like, I just don't do gigs in July. Like he gets to choose that, you know, someone else would Maybe like, but you can't do that.
[00:10:43] You got to, what if you get an invite? It's like, yeah, he turns down gigs in July because he's put those parameters in place. Right. I have another friend who, uh, they don't do gigs on the weekend. Cause they're like, my kids are home. I'm just not gonna, if it's a Saturday, Sunday, if it requires me to travel on a Sunday, I can leave Monday [00:11:00] morning to get to your gig.
[00:11:01] And so if that. You know, logistically works out great. Otherwise I won't be there. Other people who say I do gigs in this radius, whatever that radius may be. But again, like you get to decide, you can't be like, you know, it can't be like this open ended thing of like, I'll do anything for anybody anywhere.
[00:11:16] No, like you get to choose what it looks like for you. So don't act like you're a victim and saying like, In order to be a speaker, in order to be an entrepreneur, in order to fill in the blank, I have to do it this way. No, you absolutely do not.
[00:11:29] Michael: That's where I think also constraints are our friends. Yes.
[00:11:32] Yeah. Because, you know, the most creative people I've found are the people that embrace constraints and not resent them. And so are there some non negotiables for you at this season in your life when it comes to work?
[00:11:44] Grant: Yeah, there are a couple of things that were really intentional about, you know, several things I've learned from watching you guys is that you want to be cautious and making sure that the thing is not overly dependent on one individual.
[00:11:54] And so, so in my case, there's a lot of things I don't do. And so there's a lot of like social media [00:12:00] things I don't do, or there's a lot of webinars I don't do. Even within the podcast, I'm probably doing 50 percent of the interviews now. And we have other team members who are doing other parts of it. And so I never want to get to a point where it, again, it's just way too dependent on like.
[00:12:14] It's gotta be grant, you know, just like, well, then again, you kind of painted yourself into a corner and created like a, a job and you're this dancing monkey that has to constantly be able to perform, right? Regardless of what you want to do with the business or, or anything, like, I just don't want to be in that spot necessarily.
[00:12:28] So a couple of things related to that, um, basic constraints on just a day in and day out of how I spend my time or meetings or when I'm done and I'm not doing meetings at this time. Time. And it's not going to be interrupting my family when I'm on vacation. I'm away from slack. I'm away from email and we don't do calls.
[00:12:43] And so for you and the same thing that we enforce for the rest of the team. So it's not like there's a set of rules for grant and then there's a different set of rules for everyone else. So we've had team members who would say, Hey, Rant will be more annoyed if you're on vacation and check slack. If someone checks in like, Hey, I was just like, what are you doing?
[00:12:59] You're not [00:13:00] supposed to be here. Get out. Like, I like you, but I don't want you here right now. You know, I'll talk to you on Monday, putting those parameters on people of saying, no, no, no. Like this, if we're going to run a marathon, if we're going to do this for the long haul, then we've got to make sure that we're taking care of ourselves.
[00:13:12] And then we do have those constraints and parameters on ourselves.
[00:13:15] Megan: Yeah.
[00:13:15] Grant: That's
[00:13:16] Michael: really good.
[00:13:16] Grant: How does the
[00:13:17] Michael: airplane, um, Fit into all this. You're like, you're one of the few friends I have. I have a few friends that have airplanes, but I think for the average person listening to this, that sounds like an enormous.
[00:13:26] Luxury, but what was your thinking about it? I mean, cause I, I suspect that there was probably the business argument, but then there's the real argument, which is you just want to learn how to fly.
[00:13:36] Grant: Yeah. So the nutshell was how he's kind of been intrigued by it. And you're always kind of wondering like, what are they doing up there?
[00:13:44] How's this work? You know, and I'd always kind of been on my radar and just kind of more of a bucket list type deal. I could be really cool to know how to. Fly a plane, you know, like, no, I don't want to be a commercial pilot or anything. I just thought it'd be kind of interesting. And so I was at a dinner a couple of years ago with some of our, our team and our CFO [00:14:00] had just started taking flying lessons.
[00:14:01] And so he was kind of telling me about it. I was like, wait a second. You can just take flying lessons. Like that's a thing. Like I haven't. I didn't know that that was a thing. And so literally after that, I talked to, there's a neighbor of mine who's a pilot. I reached out to him like, okay, how does this work?
[00:14:13] Signed up for what's called a discovery flight where they, they take you up, kind of show you some stuff similar to what we did and kind of let you try some things and some basic maneuvers and like, Hey, you want to take lessons? Here's how this works, you know? And so I was like, I think I want to do this.
[00:14:26] And so for the next about nine months or so, it was doing multiple lessons a week, learning to fly. And honestly. I got super discouraged towards the end, really, really, really close to the finish line there. And I think where I got really discouraged was learning to fly is incredibly hard. They don't just pass out a license to anyone, uh, which is a good thing, uh, and, uh, but as we were getting closer there, I was just having to put so much work and study and prep into this.
[00:14:52] And I was just kind of like, Why am I doing this? Because I'm not trying to go to the airline. I'm not trying to, there was no plan to buy a plane or anything. So you're just kind of like, [00:15:00] all of a sudden there's no goal. You're running this thing and there's no like defined finish line. And I remember I reached out to a friend of mine who's a pilot.
[00:15:08] I want to quit right now. Can you talk me off the ledge? And he's just like, yes, you absolutely have to finish this. You have to do it. You'll kick yourself if you don't. And so finished it, got the license. And even then, like, there was really no plans to buy a plane. I was just renting the one through the school where I took lessons.
[00:15:25] And then, uh, eventually I was talking to, uh, another mutual friend who had a plane and he was kind of explaining it to me of what it's like to own a plane. And so kind of got the wheels spinning on that, kind of talked to my wife about that. And, uh, so yeah, about a little over a year ago or so we got a plane and it's been awesome from like a personal standpoint, from a satisfaction fulfillment standpoint, from a business standpoint, we're a virtual company all over the place.
[00:15:45] And so our, our marketing team was having an in person meeting in Atlanta yesterday. And I said, I'll be there. So I flew down yesterday afternoon, an hour flight, had dinner with him for a few hours. I was like, all right, I got to go. I'm back to the airport, flew home, was in bed [00:16:00] by nine. It was great.
[00:16:01] Megan: No, no,
[00:16:03] Grant: no.
[00:16:03] You hop in your plane
[00:16:04] Michael: and you take off. It's amazing that you were able to pick up that F 16 and set your bargain base for the price.
[00:16:09] Grant: Yeah, it was on sale. Cash in some, uh, Chase ultimate reward points.
[00:16:14] Michael: There's something about airplanes But a lot of guys, I don't know about women, but a lot of guys like, like I've, I've got one of my clients, his name's Sean Walsh.
[00:16:23] Who just retired from the Air Force and he was an F 16 pilot. So he started from zero on social media two months ago. And now he has on his, on TikTok, I think, or Instagram, he has 150, 000 followers. And all he talks about is sort of leadership lessons from a fighter pilot. Yeah.
[00:16:41] And
[00:16:42] Michael: I mean, he just said, people are different.
[00:16:44] Fascinating. Yeah. But the question I have is, what kind of plane do you have? I've been up in it recently. I'm gonna tell about that trip in a second because it was so fun. But it's a beautiful plane.
[00:16:52] Grant: Yeah. So it's the Cirrus SR 22 Turbo, which means nothing to 99%. I dunno what that means, but of time.
[00:16:58] Sounds impressive. This is a lovely plane. Yeah. [00:17:00] Yeah. Seats, uh, five people. And so most of the time it's me and maybe a, a co-pilot. Sometimes it's the family. And so we can have, you wouldn't necessarily want to put three adults in the back there. Weight and balance becomes a real issue, but for our three teenage girls, we can wedge them in the back there for, you know, about a two hour flight somewhere.
[00:17:16] I had this friend who said like, it's like having a time machine and what it opens up, that's right. It's amazing, you know? So what would be a seven, eight hour drive down to Florida from here, you know, as a two hour flight, or what would it be? My wife and I went to Chicago a couple of weekends ago and it was again like an hour and a half, hour 45 flight.
[00:17:34] And so just to have the freedom, the flexibility, you don't have to go through security, you don't have to check bags, you get in the plane and you go and you know, you get,
[00:17:41] Michael: it was really fun. I did. So we flew from Nashville to Knoxville and so by car that would have been what? Three hours?
[00:17:47] Megan: Yeah. Three, three and a
[00:17:48] Michael: half, three and a half.
[00:17:49] And we were there at, I mean, yeah, 45 minutes or so.
[00:17:52] Megan: That's amazing.
[00:17:52] Michael: And all we did was we went down there. To eat at the Lonesome Dove restaurant, which is one of my favorite restaurants. Wild game. Amazing. [00:18:00] So we had dinner and we came back, but the cool thing was on the way back, Grant let me fly it. And now I wasn't doing that.
[00:18:08] Megan: I would have been
[00:18:09] Michael: extra scared. His barrel rolls were spot on. Watch some YouTube videos. He was ready to go. The
[00:18:14] Megan: life insurance policy, you
[00:18:16] Michael: know, to tell you the truth, it felt like I was on a video game because you're looking at a screen. More than you're looking outside. And you're looking at a screen and it's telling you everything you need to know.
[00:18:26] And so I did that for probably about 10 minutes. And then we have a lake house not too far from Knoxville. So. We flew over there and we picked up my wife, Gail, and then we flew around the lake house several times. So we saw it from the air and the rest of the family was there because we were going to be there that weekend.
[00:18:43] And they're out on the dock waving up at us and, you know, we're signaling to them that we're up there. And they, they love that. We love that. I tried to get your mother to fly. But she had nothing to do with it. She didn't want to do
[00:18:54] Grant: the experience. She enjoyed the experience. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I also get like, it's a, it's a daunting thing and it's kind of an [00:19:00] intimidating thing, you know, cause there's a lot, there's a lot of friends who are like, I really like you, but I'm not getting in a plane with you.
[00:19:04] It's like, what? Even like my wife and girls still get nervous. And I think some of it is, well, When you know someone prior to becoming a pilot, you know, if you know someone, they're like, they've always been a pilot. I don't know any different if they're a commercial pilot, but when you know someone like you didn't used to be a pilot and now you are, are
[00:19:19] Megan: they like holding a driving record against you kind of?
[00:19:22] I don't know about that. I think it's
[00:19:24] Grant: just a, it's a big deal. You know, I've always found like people are really nervous about the idea of it and then you get up there and you realize like, Oh, like this is pretty, I feel pretty safe and this is not as big a deal as I would have thought it would have been.
[00:19:35] And it's all intimidating upfront. And then All of a sudden you start coming back to earth and you're like, okay, we're getting closer and closer. We're going pretty fast. Are you sure? You know, we're good with this. But it's a cool experience. And I think also, you know, one thing that we talked about was from a relationship and a networking experience.
[00:19:49] It's, it's one thing if you and I go to coffee or something or go grab lunch, it's something else of like, Oh, we went flying. That was really cool. You know? And it's a very just unique, memorable type of [00:20:00] experience that not a lot of people
[00:20:00] Michael: can provide to someone else. Tell me if I'm wrong on this, but statistically speaking, you have a much higher chance of being in a car wreck.
[00:20:06] Yeah. Yeah.
[00:20:08] Grant: Yeah. So there's different categories of that. And so
[00:20:10] Megan: commercial fender benders, actually not really,
[00:20:13] Michael: but
[00:20:14] Grant: there's parts of it that are very much true. Like actually commercial flying is way safer than jumping. And so what they've always said is like general aviation, what we're talking about here, kind of a smaller plane is more similar to like a motorcycles.
[00:20:26] And so they, they, I wish I'd known that, uh, well, hang on, hang on. However, now that's the overall general aviation. So Cirrus, the manufacturer of the plane that we fly, um, one of the things that they are known for is being one of the safest planes out there. And so a lot of that's the technology, but the big thing that we talked about was there's a parachute built into the plane itself.
[00:20:45] What? Which sounds like, wait a second, you mean like for the person? No, no, not for the people, for the plane itself. There's literally a, a ballistic rocket built a parachute in the back of the plane that if you pull this handle, it shoots a parachute out the back. And so they have documented [00:21:00] hundreds and hundreds of lives that have been saved from the parachute.
[00:21:03] And so that was a deal breaker for my wife was I explained the idea of us getting a plane. She's like, absolutely not. That's ridiculous. And I said, well, this one has a parachute. And she's like, okay, maybe. So then I was like, well, what about this one? She's like, does that have a parachute? No, but it's like, I don't want to hear about it.
[00:21:18] It's got to have a parachute or nothing. And so there's also just that from like a safety perspective, that worst case scenario, I pass out, if something happens to me, I know that my wife says, all I got to do is pull this handle and there's a good chance that we'll be okay. So that carries a lot of weight as well.
[00:21:34] I'm not quite sure what this has to do with the double win, except that I'm just absolutely fascinated by it. You know, here, here's part of it is I think it kind of speaks to, again, kind of designing the kind of life that you want to have. Yeah, there's no practical reason that I need an airplane. There's no reason that I needed to get my pilot's license on one hand.
[00:21:50] It's just kind of cool. You know, on the other hand, it's just like, yeah, but I get to experience life in a different type of way that most people wouldn't. And so again, going back to, you know, what's the point of becoming a [00:22:00] speaker? Because I just thought this is the kind of life that I want to have.
[00:22:02] What's the point of moving to Nashville 10 years ago when I wasn't moving for a job? We didn't have any. We didn't have any family here. We didn't have any friends here. There's no reason on paper to move. Everybody's questioning. Wait a second, why are you going there? What is this about? It was like, we just think it'd be a cool place to be, you know, and why did we homeschool our girls years ago before a pandemic, you know, forced a lot of people into it.
[00:22:22] It's like, no, this is the kind of life that we want to live. And so same thing with a plane. Like, is there any practical need for it? No, like we can survive just fine without it. But from a life design standpoint, it's been a huge, huge win.
[00:22:34] Michael: Well, the other thing that I think is a huge win about it. is you're essentially buying back your time.
[00:22:39] And, and I think for, for many people, you get to a certain level of income and more income is not going to solve any problem, but more time would solve problems. Yeah. And so when you can fly somewhere faster than you could drive, and like, I've literally never met anybody that says, I want to spend more time actually traveling.
[00:22:57] No, you travel to get there, but [00:23:00] it's the getting there is what's important. So the fact that you have a plane. Yeah. So yeah, that's really cool.
[00:23:16] Megan: So I'm hearing this thread in your story about living in congruence with your values, about personal freedom, about life design. I mean, these are big concepts that feel like they're innate to you, but I'm imagining our listeners and they probably don't feel innate to everybody listening today. I mean, they're probably like, wow.
[00:23:38] You know, who's this guy? So where does that come from for you? Like, were you, were you thought to yourself? I can design my life in a way that works for my family, that works with the values that I had. I mean, most of us, we don't kind of come into life with a growth mindset of, you know, things are flexible.
[00:23:56] We kind of come in with like, this is how it works. Maybe what we saw our [00:24:00] parents do or whatever.
[00:24:00] Grant: And my childhood and teen years, my dad was an entrepreneur. had some, he worked from home. So he had some flexibility there.
[00:24:07] Yeah. So it was pre internet.
[00:24:09] Grant: Yeah. Way back when, and so. I do remember seeing that and seeing like, okay, he could, you know, he could stop what he was doing and hang out with us or interact with us or whatever that may be.
[00:24:18] I don't know if there was any like one moment or instance as much as again, like, Well, we all get to design this, you know, like just because I'll give you one example would be like when we started, um, my wife started homeschooling our girls. I remember one time they were real little, they came in and they said, Hey, if we do tomorrow's work today, does that mean we can play more tomorrow?
[00:24:36] I was like, yeah, because that's the way it is. For all of us, right? And it shouldn't just be that we, you know, you work eight to five or nine to five, Monday to Friday. And that's the way it is for life. Um, because that's the way it's been done for decades and generations. It's like, no, no, like you can design the things in a way that makes sense for you.
[00:24:53] And again, what may make sense for you may not make sense for someone else. So we may look at someone else's life of, Hey, here's a family who travels around the [00:25:00] world all the time. And, you know, this is the way that they choose to live life for this family that chooses to live out of an RV or this family that chooses to live off the grid or, or Whatever that, that may look like that makes sense to them.
[00:25:11] And it's also realizing like you're not making a permanent decision. So I remember for example, whenever we moved to Nashville and we had a lot of well meaning family and friends who are like, have you thought this through? Like what happens if, what do you, what happens if you get there and you don't like it?
[00:25:25] And I remember telling someone like, Well, we'll just move back, you know, like, yeah, like it's a more deal. You're not going to Mars. Yeah. Like it's not like we're making this permanent decision, you know, and so you get a choice. Let's say we buy the plane and we have it for a little while and we don't like it.
[00:25:42] Well, then we sell it. You just move on with life. And again, there's like transactional costs associated with these things, but it's not like any of these things are permanent decision. So one of the things I would say would be, yes, we can talk about it as if it is, you know, these are like normal common things.
[00:25:57] And part of it may just be like, We don't know any [00:26:00] other way to live, but also some of this is, I think, is like incremental steps of bravery, where if we go back for any of our lives, years and years and years, like we have that kind of life that we have now. And so it was like making micro steps along the way of.
[00:26:14] Why do we live here? Or why do we choose to school kids this way? Or why do we work in this way instead of that way? And it doesn't mean, again, like you make this conscious decision on a Friday afternoon and then Monday morning it's like, okay, it all worked out. But saying like, okay, if that's the kinda life that I wanna live, and this is where I'm at today, just like on a map, what's the best possible way to get from point A to point B?
[00:26:34] Mm-Hmm, . And what are the steps I need to start taking in order to move toward that, that direction?
[00:26:38] Megan: Mm-Hmm, . So how do you get the courage. When you're thinking about something, maybe being a pilot, for example, how do you convince yourself to do that?
[00:26:46] Grant: So I think there's a couple ways to look at it. There's, you know, one of them is going to be the regret side of things.
[00:26:50] You know, what are the things that you did that you wish you hadn't done? And what are the things you didn't do that you wish you had tried? And so I felt like, I felt like, um, Through the lens of like entrepreneurship, it was one of those things. So going, okay, [00:27:00] if I start this speaking business, what if it doesn't work?
[00:27:03] You know, it's like, well, I can live with it not working, but I don't want to get to the end of life and be like, I think I could have made that work, but I'll never know. Cause I didn't try. And the same thing was true with like being a pilot of going like, maybe I do that discovery flight. Maybe I do a couple of lessons and decide this isn't for me and that's fine.
[00:27:18] I can live with that, but I don't want to live with it's going like, I just didn't even try. You know, because I was scared or I was worried or anxious or costs or whatever. Like these are all real things. So I don't want to just like downplay them or minimize them. They're absolutely things that you got to factor in and consider.
[00:27:33] But at the end of the day, like I want to look back and be like, I lived life really, really great. So let me give you a quick story. Last year we do this a houseboat trip with a couple buddies Brian. We have heard about this We've done nine years of this house Amazing and so we have four guys that go every year and we have two new guys that come every year and just get to Know some other guys and so last year one of the guys that came one of the new guys that came two or three days before [00:28:00] Uh, the houseboat, his mom passed away, like just suddenly out of the blue.
[00:28:03] And so we're talking to him before the houseboat of just like, Hey man, if you're not able to come totally fine, if you've got to deal with, you know, funeral preparation, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta like totally get it. You know, they're like, this is a major, major deal. And so I remember he's like, no, no, I want to be there.
[00:28:16] I've been looking for this coming. He comes and we were kind of talking about it. I'm like, man, you're like, your mom literally died a couple of days ago. How you doing? And he's like, honestly, like I'm doing really, really well. And he said, people oftentimes talk about regrets. It's like, Oh, if I could just hug my mom one more time, you know, if I could tell her I love her one more time, he's like, I did those things.
[00:28:34] I hugged her. I loved her. I told her like we just went on a trip with her, you know? And so I feel like that oftentimes with my own life, that if something were to happen to me, I don't want to look back and be like, man, I, all these things that I left undone or unsaid or unaccomplished, like, no, I've had a really, really great life.
[00:28:53] continue that life. But I also have been intentional to say like, no, this is a, this is a good life. I got one shot at this thing. And so I want to make sure [00:29:00] that I lived a well, and I was satisfied with, with what I did. What is your typical week
[00:29:06] Michael: look like now
[00:29:07] Grant: and your typical day? Most mornings I'll start with some type of exercise.
[00:29:10] And so a lot of times I'm getting up at like 445 to go to the gym at 530. Either a couple of days a week, I lift with our mutual friend, Brian Harris. Oh yeah. We lift heavy things and pretend like we're strong. A couple of days a week. Are you a
[00:29:22] Megan: crossfitter?
[00:29:23] Grant: No, no, that's ridiculous. So, uh, I'm a pilot. And so I have to tell people I'm a pilot in the same way that a crossfitter has to tell people that they're a crossfitter.
[00:29:31] So I'm doing It's something that I feel like obligated to let everyone know just to work on the
[00:29:35] conversation. So
[00:29:36] Grant: similar, but uh, yeah, so we'll work out a couple of days a week, play pickleball quite a bit. Uh, yeah. You guys getting into that?
[00:29:41] Megan: No, but we want to. A bunch of my sisters have, and I was just talking with my husband the other day.
[00:29:47] We were on a walk and I was like, babe, we have got to do pickleball.
[00:29:51] Grant: It's a
[00:29:52] Michael: lot of fun. I had a friend yesterday. I mean, we're
[00:29:53] Megan: over 40. So I feel like it's a fling at this point. Let's go.
[00:29:56] Michael: I had a friend yesterday. He was talking about pickleball. He said, you know, pickleball is [00:30:00] made tennis. More accessible to more people, you know, it's like, it's like an improvement on dentists.
[00:30:04] Yes. And he said, what we need. It's pickle golf because 18 holes is too long to commitment. He said, we need 12 holes. And he said, we just need to take the existing golf courses and divide them into three, you know, 18. So you could play this six or this six and then you're done. I love that idea. That's a treat.
[00:30:22] There you go. That's a pickle golf. Yeah, yeah.
[00:30:24] Grant: So, uh, either lifting with Brian or pickleball, uh, walk the dog a couple of days a week. And so something to get the blood pumping in the morning there. A lot of times I'm at my desk by seven 38 at home and I'm, I'm ready to get going. Like I genuinely enjoy what it is that I do.
[00:30:38] So it's nothing that you're like, You know, you're, you're dreading or like, Oh, this is awful. This is miserable. Like, well, if you're living that kind of life again, you're the one that can do something about it, you know? So you need to change something about that setting or the environment or whatever it may be.
[00:30:51] So a lot of times I'm at my desk, seven 38 and getting after it. And so, like I said, because my, my wife homeschools, the girls, like when they start to make their rounds [00:31:00] and then I want to go out and see them, hang out with them for a few. But I'm most days I'm working three, four, five o'clock or so. It kind of depends.
[00:31:06] Normally like you start the beginning of the week. Working till four or five and then as the week goes, it kind of trickles down and maybe by Friday afternoon, it's kind of a half day of that, but I try to have some, you know, freedom, flexibility there. A lot of times in the evening, hanging out with the family, doing something with them.
[00:31:21] And so I genuinely really, really enjoy my life and I enjoy the life that I get to live and that people I get to live with and I get to do life with.
[00:31:30] Megan: Okay. So I feel like we have to ask you some questions about speaking because you're the guy.
[00:31:34] Grant: That's
[00:31:35] Megan: right. And we have a lot of speakers who listen to our show and a lot of aspiring speakers.
[00:31:41] How do people get over the anxiety of speaking? So I don't know if you know this, but I had A debilitating fear of public speaking.
[00:31:49] Grant: Not uncommon. Like,
[00:31:50] Megan: but I basically got into a situation where I couldn't say no anymore. And so my very first speaking event was a keynote in front of 800 people. Okay. So, you know, the deep end, [00:32:00] uh, and actually really well, it was, it was, it was really fun.
[00:32:04] And the six weeks leading up to it were not fun. They were the opposite of getting ready, but I don't think that's an uncommon experience. And I had a professional reason that caused me.
[00:32:13] Yeah.
[00:32:13] Megan: to have to do it while I'm speaking again. I've spoken since then, of course, but I'm speaking again next month and it's been a while and I'm feeling a little bit of nerves and that's not debilitating.
[00:32:23] I'll be fine. But for on the spectrum of, of, I feel anxious to, I would rather die. Yeah. Like what can you tell us? So
[00:32:31] Grant: first of all, I think it's important to acknowledge that those feelings are normal, natural and okay. If anything, I think it means that your body's telling you like, Hey. This is important.
[00:32:41] Like this is a big deal. Like you should pay attention. You know, I'd be more concerned about the people who are just like, I don't feel anything. It's like, well, does this even matter to you? Like why are you doing this? You know? And so you think about like big moments in life where you've had something similar, right?
[00:32:54] You know, if you had a big job interview or when you were getting birth, wedding, got engaged, any of those type of like [00:33:00] really big moments, like, Oh, I felt similar things. And it wasn't like, Uh, when I was proposing to my wife that I thought she's probably going to say no or this is going to be a disaster.
[00:33:07] It's just like, no, it's just your body's way of saying like, Hey, this is a really big deal. Like you better lock in right now. Right.
[00:33:13] Yeah.
[00:33:13] Grant: So if anything, I would say like, well, if we know that that's an okay feeling, that's a normal natural feeling, then what do we do to minimize that or control that? So it doesn't become overwhelming or debilitating.
[00:33:23] I think one of the best things that any speaker can do is really spend significant time putting behind the scenes practicing and preparing. So by the high, but time you step up there, you know, like, okay, I still feel all of that, but there's also a level of confidence and calm. So an example would be, if you think back to high school or university or college, and you remember taking a test or an exam and you have a choice, like if you knew the exam was coming up, you could, I'm just going to wing it.
[00:33:47] I'm just going to show up and like, eh, we'll just kind of see how this goes. And now I feel really nervous and uncomfortable because I don't really know what I'm getting myself into. Or it's like, no, no, I'm really going to spend the time to practice, to study, to go over practice exams, to [00:34:00] have a study group or whatever it may be to review my notes.
[00:34:02] So by the time I show up, I may still feel some of the butterflies. I know this is a big deal, but there's also a level of confidence. Like, no, I got this. Like, bring it on. Let's go. It's similar to like plot flying a plane. You know, you don't just get up there and be like, I hope this works. Take the whole
[00:34:15] Megan: family up for my first night.
[00:34:17] I
[00:34:17] Grant: still feel like. Okay. Like this is a big deal. Like pay attention, you know, but I also feel a level of like, no, no. Like I've spent a lot of time and energy and effort preparing for this moment to take off to fly somewhere, to do it safely, effectively and confidently and land and it be a good experience.
[00:34:34] And so same thing is true of going, like, when you feel those things, it's okay. It's a good thing. It's a normal thing. And also know that like, I can spend some time behind the scenes practicing preparing. So by the time I get up there, it's like, no, I got this. I'm ready.
[00:34:46] Megan: Yeah. I used to think that people who are good speakers and they seemingly weren't nervous that they just didn't deal with that.
[00:34:54] There were like the people like me who had all those feelings and felt sick to their stomach and, you [00:35:00] know, sweaty and whatever. And then you had to wait until that went away to sort of qualify to get on stage. And what I've realized since then, Is I mean, that's just going to happen because it's a big deal.
[00:35:11] Like, that's just part of it. Now it won't be debilitating once you know, you'll be fine, but that that's part of it. And you don't have to wait until those feelings go away to do it. I actually worked with, um, a speaking anxiety coach. I mean, that's, that's how I was like, listen, we got to bring in the professionals here.
[00:35:26] This is a nine one one. And he said, you know what? You can totally feel all that. And you got to go to work.
[00:35:32] Yeah.
[00:35:32] Megan: And I was like, In my mind it was so black and white that it had to be either, if I was that nervous, I couldn't speak. Yeah, or if I was finally not nervous than I would, you know, whatever. And it was so freeing to realize, Oh, I can just coexist with these feelings.
[00:35:47] And of course the truth is they just blow off the back after a minute or two on stage. It's so true, I was
[00:35:51] Michael: gonna say, you know, like I'll have all those feelings too. that I've spoken hundreds and hundreds of times, but when I step on stage. Once I get past about the first 15 [00:36:00] seconds, then I'm totally in it.
[00:36:02] But nobody
[00:36:02] Megan: tells you that. And
[00:36:03] Michael: I'm loving
[00:36:03] Megan: it. So we're telling you right now. That's right. Now you know. You just
[00:36:06] Grant: gotta get through those first 30 seconds or so. But you think about like other professions, industries where that's the case. If you watch athletes playing in the Super Bowl and you think, well, they're professional athletes.
[00:36:15] They've played this game their entire lives. Of course they're not nervous. No, they're absolutely nervous, right? Because it's just that moment of they've practiced, they've prepared, they've gone through drills, they've gone through training for years. But it's still a really big moment. I'd be more concerned about, like, the athlete who's like, I feel good.
[00:36:31] I didn't feel anything. Like,
[00:36:32] Megan: really? Like, it's the Super Bowl, Patrick Mahomes. Come on.
[00:36:36] Michael: It's kind of cliche at this point, but the whole adage. Yeah. Is really true. Not just in speaking, but in everything. Totally. And I think that the ability to do it, even when you're afraid, is the mark of maturity. And so I think that whatever it is that life calls on us to do, I think that we've got to step into it.
[00:36:56] And when we do, those feelings disappear. [00:37:00] And Dan Sullivan makes this really interesting distinction between courage and confidence. And a lot of people think, well, I've got to feel confident before I can speak. He said, no, confidence comes after you exercise courage. Yeah. It's like the reward. Yeah. You don't need confidence.
[00:37:16] What you need is courage. Right. Which just means the ability to do what's required, Even though you have those feelings of anxiety. Well, I think you can,
[00:37:24] Grant: there's also situations where you can borrow that courage or confidence from other people. So you were talking about like with your coach, of you're feeling like, I can't do this.
[00:37:32] And your coach is like, no, no, you're good. You know, and you're like, you're not just saying that. And so the same thing I think about, like the first time I did a solo flight by myself, you know, you have a, I have this young instructor, he's like 20 years old. He looks like a child. And at some point after flying for a few weeks, he's like, okay, you got this.
[00:37:47] And he gets out of the plane and he says, okay, here's what you're going to do. And you're going to land and they'll see you back here and you're going like, are you sure? Yeah. Should we talk about this? Let's do one more practice, you know? But his confidence, you know, [00:38:00] his courage is like, okay, he's not going to get out of the plane if he doesn't think I'm confident and ready for this moment.
[00:38:05] So borrowing that confidence, that's a really good lesson.
[00:38:08] Megan: And that's why coaching, I think, is so helpful. I mean, I think we all have coaches in our lives. And the reason for that, the reason we're willing to invest in that is because the value of other people believing you can do something and helping you with the preparation for sure.
[00:38:23] But man, you will do so much more in that context than ever.
[00:38:27] Michael: If somebody's an aspiring speaker, What would be your advice to get started, particularly I think people that are at mid career or maybe late career and they're thinking, I want to do something different and I'd really like to be a speaker, but they don't even know where to start.
[00:38:41] Grant: Yeah. One of the things we do inside the speaker lab, our training company for speakers is we teach what we call the speak framework. Basically what this is, is an acronym for speak, S P E A K. And so the S is selecting a problem to solve. I think this is the most difficult part. Part of the process for people is because we just say like, I want to be a speaker.
[00:38:57] What do I speak out? I don't know. What do you want me to speak about? And [00:39:00] who do I speak to? I don't know. I speak to humans. I speak to people. I speak to everybody. Right. And so the analogy we always use is you want to be the steakhouse and not the buffet going to be the steakhouse and not the buffet.
[00:39:09] Meaning if we're going to grab a bite to eat and we're looking for a good steak, like we could go to golden corral where steak is one of a hundred things that they offer and they're all mediocre. Or we could go to a steakhouse where they do one thing and they just do that one thing really well. So they don't do tacos, they don't do sushi, they don't do spaghetti.
[00:39:25] Like we just do steak. And so if you're a vegetarian, if you're looking for something else, like that's just not us, you know, as we get it whenever it comes to that. But for some reason we think whenever it comes to being an expert or a speaker or whatever it may be, or starting a business, I want to solve as many problems as I can for as many people as possible.
[00:39:42] I want to spread the net as far and wide as possible. And it's counterintuitive, but the more narrow, the more. focus you are, the easier it is to actually build some momentum. So that's the hardest part for so many speakers is we just think through all the different passions and interests and experience and knowledge that we have.
[00:39:58] We go, but how do I take all of [00:40:00] that and narrow it down to like, no, I can best help you with this. And that, again, we're not making a permanent decision. It can iterate and pivot and change over time, but we've got to pick some starting place versus trying to be, no, no we're golden corrals. So whatever you want us to talk about and whoever you want us to speak to, We can do it.
[00:40:16] Well, nobody's hiring that kind of speaker.
[00:40:18] Megan: So does your framework help people to zero in on that?
[00:40:22] Grant: Yeah, absolutely. Because it's, it's, you know, we've heard the expression before. It's hard to read the label from inside the jar, you know, and also realizing that just because you're, you're passionate about a topic, knowledgeable on a topic, interested in the topic, doesn't necessarily mean that organizations, groups, conferences, events, are hiring speakers to talk about that.
[00:40:39] So there's, there has to be some type of overlap here between, yeah, just because I'm interested in it. And this is what organizations hire speakers. Like, what is that Venn diagram where I know like, okay, here's where I might fit into that mix.
[00:40:50] Michael: And I think this applies to kind of all of life. Like if you're starting a business, the more narrow you can be in terms of the problem you solve, the more successful you're going to be, the faster you're going to get [00:41:00] traction.
[00:41:00] If you're starting a social media account and you're trying to get traction there, the people that are uber successful. Are the people that take a stand for one thing and people know him for that one thing.
[00:41:09] Grant: Yeah.
[00:41:10] Michael: And the more you broaden that, the more difficult it is for people to find you.
[00:41:12] Grant: Yeah. And we can see this in other elements of life.
[00:41:14] So let's imagine that God forbid you had a, well, let's use an example. Like, um, you've talked about this a little bit, that you had a heart issue, you know, a few years ago, right? With a heart issue, you could go to your normal family medical doctor and they probably know something about the heart probably more than any of us do.
[00:41:30] But like, they're just kind of a general family doctor, right? I can tell you something. There's only so far I can go. Or you can go to a cardiologist where it's like, you have a broken leg. I can't really help you. You got a headache. There's nothing I can do for you. You got a bad cough. I'm sorry. Like you got a heart issue.
[00:41:43] I got you. Yeah. And this is the thing, you know? And so, you know, I'm not looking for a buffet doctor. I'm looking for like, No, the specialist who's really, really good at this one thing. And it makes it a lot easier to attract the right type of client or customer, whatever it may be, and repel the wrong ones.
[00:41:59] Cause you know, I [00:42:00] know exactly what I'm looking for and you're exactly the person that can
[00:42:03] Michael: solve that problem. It seems like when it comes to speaking and this is what I think people have to consider. There's sort of the art of speaking, you know, creating the content. Focusing on the delivery, all the things that make it work on stage.
[00:42:16] But then there's the business of speaking, right? So those are two separate things. And I think
[00:42:20] Grant: this is where, again, a lot of speakers make the mistake of, well, I'm just a good speaker. So now I, I just sit back and I wait for the phone to ring. It just doesn't work like that. Like you're speaking is a great marketing tool, But also there's an element of, I have to like reach out, I have to follow up.
[00:42:35] I have to do the hard things that a lot of people just don't want to do. And so people kind of naively assume if I just post something on social media, if I put up my website, if I put up my demo video and I just wait for the phone to ring, like. If you build it, they will not come. And so it's a, speaking is very much a momentum business, like a lot of businesses.
[00:42:51] And so the more you speak, the more you speak, but you got to do the work to get that flywheel and that momentum going. So a lot of people just assume, I just want to be a good speaker and I'm [00:43:00] neglecting the business part of it. But I would argue that the business part is as if not more important than the art of speaking.
[00:43:05] And do you help with both of those at speaker lab? Yeah, the majority of what we do is on the business side. But how do you actually find and book a gig? And what do you speak about? How much do you charge and who hires speakers? Yeah, that's so helpful. It's like this mysterious black box because for a lot of people, when you know, you get invited to speak to 800 people would just assume like, okay, I just, I guess I just wait for that email to come for me, you know, and I just, I've done some speaking before and I just kind of word of mouth or referral or friend of a friend type deal and like, yeah, that can happen.
[00:43:32] But if you wanted to do this, On a bigger level and do not, you know, a few gigs here and there, but you want to do it as a big part of your business or career, whatever it may be, you know, there are systems processes to go about that to actually consistently be able to find a book gig. So that's a core part of what we do.
[00:43:48] Megan: That's awesome. And, you know, we're big fans here of. Just as Dan Sullivan says, find the who, don't try to figure out the how on your own. And I think in this world of professional speaking, you're [00:44:00] the who, and it's just such a shortcut and such a hack. You know, you could spend 10 years trying to figure out the business of speaking or waiting for the phone to ring.
[00:44:07] And get nowhere. And get nowhere. Exactly. And you don't have to. So that's really cool.
[00:44:11] Michael: Yeah. I'm impatient with results. And that's why I hire coaches and why I hire people like Grant to accelerate the process.
[00:44:17] Yeah.
[00:44:18] Michael: And so if you're a speaker and you want to go further, faster, Grant's your guy when it comes to public speaking.
[00:44:30] Megan: We always ask our guests three questions. And so are you game for this?
[00:44:34] Fire away. It's kind of like
[00:44:35] Megan: a lightning round, but the questions are kind of deep. So the first one is what is your personal biggest obstacle in getting the double win, winning at work and succeeding at life?
[00:44:44] Grant: I would say. Focus. Um, because there's a lot
[00:44:48] Megan: of things
[00:44:50] Grant: that we can fully focus on this.
[00:44:51] Um, there's a lot of things on the menu that you're just like, Oh, I want to do that. Or I think I could do that. Like my biggest fear is I [00:45:00] know we're all people of faith. And so I don't want to get to the end of the game. And be like, ah, you kind of phoned it in or you went through the motions and stuff.
[00:45:06] And like, we've all been given a certain level of talents. And I really want to do something. Well, I want to live my life really, really well, where again, at the end, I know that I, I steward and manage my life really, really well. And so that means like of all the things that you could do. Yeah. It's trying to figure out, like, how to get those things done and also not miss the most important things, right?
[00:45:28] I heard, um, from the book Die With Zero, I heard about this concept. You can make a list of everything you could possibly do in life, and you can do all those things, but you have to get the order right. And you have to know how to sequence and write, right? Meaning that like, you may be interested in learning to fly a plane, but maybe now's not the time.
[00:45:43] You got to do this, this and this first. You just had a new baby.
[00:45:46] Megan: Don't sign up for this.
[00:45:47] Grant: Totally. Right. And so starting a business, moving, whatever, and then also recognizing like there is never a perfect time for any of these things. But so figuring out like that, the priority and the focus of going like, okay, I want to do all these things, but like, here's what I have to [00:46:00] do
[00:46:00] Megan: now.
[00:46:01] How do you know when you've gotten the double win?
[00:46:03] Grant: I think it's a reflection of the quality of your relationships and the people that matter most. So one thing I, I talk a lot about, um, with our team internally, I talk about with others is that who you are is more important than what you do. Yeah. Who you are is more important than what you do.
[00:46:18] Meaning if we are great entrepreneurs, if we're great speakers, we're great authors, if we're great, fill in the blanket, the thing that we do, but we drop the ball as husbands, wives, moms, dads, if we're a shell of a human being, We're doing it wrong. And so how I know that I'm winning is the quality of my marriage, the quality of my relationship with my girls, of the people that matter most to me.
[00:46:37] I can drop the ball in a lot of areas, but I know I'm doing well. If the quality of the relationship with them is strong.
[00:46:43] Megan: That's really good. That's good. Uh, okay. Last question. What is one ritual or routine that you rely on to do what you do? You've told us a few, so.
[00:46:52] Grant: All right. Ritual routine. So I'm going to go back to one thing we've kind of touched on a little bit here, and that's rely really heavily on coaches.
[00:46:58] Yeah. I think
[00:46:58] Grant: coaches are [00:47:00] incredibly, incredibly helpful, incredibly, incredibly valuable. When you're able to talk with someone who is a step or two or light years ahead of you in a certain category, whatever that may be work, personal, whatever it may be, but seeing able to kind of like see around the corner.
[00:47:13] And so, you know, in many ways, Yeah. When, when we went flying, we talked about work and, but I also talked about like, okay, Gail still likes you most days. And so what's that like, what are you doing? You know, and like your girls still seem to get along with you and with each other. So I'm a step or two behind in terms of girls, but like, how do I make sure that they still like me and respect me and we have a good relationship.
[00:47:33] And so talking with those people who are a step or two ahead of you, learning from them, benefiting from their experiences, their mistakes, their failures, their shortcomings. I'm like, okay, what are the things that I need to apply in my own world? So really utilizing coaches has been a big thing
[00:47:47] Michael: that I'd highly recommend.
[00:47:48] Megan: That's fantastic. Me
[00:47:49] Michael: too. Anytime you're, you're trying to learn something, the coach is just usually the best example to get there. faster. As we said before.
[00:47:55] Yeah.
[00:47:55] Michael: So good for you. Well, Grant, this has been deep and rich.
[00:47:59] Yeah.
[00:47:59] Michael: [00:48:00] Thank you for joining us. Particularly coming into the studio today. It's always much more fun in person.
[00:48:03] Grant: Way more fun. Yeah, yeah. This is awesome. Thanks for the opportunity. And I
[00:48:06] Michael: can't wait to go fly fishing here in a few weeks. That's going to be a fun experience too. It'll be great. Okay, buddy. Thanks. Thanks for being here. You bet.
[00:48:23] So Megan, that was a fun conversation.
[00:48:24] Megan: It was so fun.
[00:48:25] Michael: But time went faster than I thought. I know. It would. Yeah. I looked up and we'd already been in like almost an hour. So what were your, some of your key takeaways?
[00:48:33] Megan: Number one, flying in a private plane is a little more dangerous than I've been led to believe because I don't do motorcycles and I won't be doing private planes.
[00:48:41] So that's my first takeaway.
[00:48:46] No, I'm just kidding. You know, I think the thing that was amazing about that conversation was just seeing somebody who, frankly, in the An industry in a world that's not really thought to be conducive with a double win [00:49:00] has been very intentional about designing his life so that he can win at work and succeed at life.
[00:49:06] And I think that's hopeful for everybody because, you know, we hear a lot that I couldn't do it because I'm in some government contract field or whatever. I mean, it's certainly. Shift work might be an area that would make it really difficult. But the truth is, there are creative ways to solve that problem, no matter what your context is.
[00:49:23] Michael: Similar to that, I think I came away with the sense that he has a deep sense of personal agency.
[00:49:31] Megan: Yeah.
[00:49:32] Michael: He doesn't have to take life as it's been prescribed, but he can rearrange things and create a life he loves, and he's certainly done that. You know, the way that he conducts his life, the way that he's able to spend time with his wife and his daughters, you know, I really admire all that.
[00:49:49] Megan: And I
[00:49:49] Michael: think that that's like a fundamental assumption that you have to have is that you have agency. Not all of us have the same level of agency, but I think it's a fundamental belief that we have to adopt that we've got the [00:50:00] ability. to design our lives.
[00:50:01] Megan: Yeah,
[00:50:02] Michael: we've got the ability if we have the courage to make the changes.
[00:50:06] Megan: Well, part of the reason that we have shifted this podcast to this format is because we want to introduce you to people who are living the double win. Not perfectly. Cause you know, that's never going to happen for any of us, but real people who are living the double win. Because I think if that's not something we had modeled for us, it can seem impossible or it can seem maybe challenging to figure out how we would do it.
[00:50:28] But when you meet people in different industries or different spheres of life, then all of a sudden it's like, okay, well, if they could do it, then maybe I could do it. And I think that is powerful. Even though you may not know grant personally, you get to know him through the podcast conversation. And I think that's powerful.
[00:50:45] I, um, I was leading a conversation with my women business center mastermind earlier this morning, and we were talking about the value of friendship and peer group and all of that. And they were talking about how. knowing each other had challenged them to grow in ways [00:51:00] that they just wouldn't have otherwise.
[00:51:01] And just how powerful that is. And I think that's one of the great things that Grant brings to people he knows in person, but also people who follow him and follow his work. And obviously listening to the show is being an example that is worth following. And I just love that. We need more of that in our world.
[00:51:19] Michael: I liked that you asked him the question about fear when it comes to public speaking.
[00:51:23] Megan: Yeah.
[00:51:23] Michael: Not because It's only applicable to speaking, but it's a metaphor for life.
[00:51:28] Megan: Absolutely. And I
[00:51:29] Michael: think the single biggest barrier for most of us. in terms of getting what we want is fear.
[00:51:35] Megan: Yep.
[00:51:36] Michael: And if we can somehow learn how to process fear in a powerful way and get past it, then literally anything's possible.
[00:51:45] You know, so many things are possible if we would just have that conversation with the person. You know, it's kind of like the first time I asked your mom out, you know, I was scared to death. I was trembling to do that, but boy, am I [00:52:00] glad I did it. You know, here 40 years later now, we've been married for 46, but uh, 48 years from our first date.
[00:52:07] And that was amazing. But I had to get past the fear.
[00:52:11] Megan: Well, you know what I think it is? I don't think you have to get past the fear. I think you have to learn to live with the fear.
[00:52:16] Michael: Yeah. Or get to walk through it.
[00:52:18] Megan: To experience fear. Because I think so much of what we don't do in our lives is in an effort to avoid the feeling of fear because it's not a pleasant feeling.
[00:52:27] And when you can learn So let yourself experience it and do the thing that you want to do and that it doesn't have to go away for you to do that thing. That's freedom.
[00:52:35] Michael: Well, it's kind of why I also brought up the whole flying thing. Right. I mean, I know that, you know, private airplanes are not everybody's jam or most people's jam.
[00:52:43] I don't have a private plane, uh, and don't intend to, but I do think his story about, you know, overcoming the fear of that.
[00:52:50] Megan: Yes.
[00:52:51] Michael: Cause that would be scary.
[00:52:52] Megan: It would be very scary. Like I,
[00:52:53] Michael: it was one thing for me to fly with Grant when he was right there next to me, And I knew that if at any point I got in trouble, Grant was there to take over.
[00:52:59] Megan: [00:53:00] Yeah.
[00:53:00] Michael: But if Grant had landed the plane and said to me, great, now it's your turn. Take her up and bring her back. I mean, I would have just been like.
[00:53:06] Megan: Quaking in your boots. Yeah,
[00:53:07] Michael: I wouldn't have done it.
[00:53:08] Megan: I
[00:53:08] Michael: would have bailed.
[00:53:09] Megan: So interesting. Well, hopefully this was as inspiring to you guys as it was to us. And if it was, and we hope it was, we would love for you to leave us a Five star review.
[00:53:19] And the reason it's not our own vanity on that, that we'd love, you know, hearing from you guys, we want more people to experience the double win. In fact, our company's mission is to make it nearly impossible for you not to get the double win. And you got to know about it first. And this is one of the best ways to do that.
[00:53:36] So leave us a review, subscribe to the podcast, and that'll help us get in front of more people that need the double win.
[00:53:42] Michael: See you guys next week.