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Creativity isn’t tidy—it’s risky, chaotic, and full of surprises. It’s full of breakthroughs and breakdowns, moments of flow and moments of doubt. Join Mishu Hilmy for unfiltered conversations with artists, filmmakers, musicians, and fearless makers who thrive in the unknown, embrace imperfection, and create at the edge of possibility.
This is your front row seat to the self-doubt, unexpected wins, and messy emotional work of making something real. But craft isn’t just about feeling—it’s about problem-solving, process, and the devotion behind mastery.
Subscribe now for weekly episodes that celebrate the unpredictable, the playful, and the deeply human side of making things. Join the mailing list at mischiefpod.com
Email anytime at podcast@ohhmaybe.com and follow us @mischiefpod
Mishu Hilmy (00:03)
Welcome to Mischief in Mastery, where we embrace the ups, downs, and all-around uncertainty of a creative life, and that steady, and sometimes not-so-steady journey toward expertise. Each episode, we talk candidly with people I know, people I don't know, folks who produce, direct, write, act, do comedy, make art, make messes, and make meaning out of their lives. You will hear guests lay out how they work, what they're thinking about, where they get stuck, and why they snap out of their comfort zones and into big, bold,
risky moves. So if you're hungry for honest insights, deep dives into process philosophies and practical tips, plus maybe a little mischief along the way, you're in the right place. For more, visit mischiefpod.com.
back today, we're talking with Emma Palizza and Emma and I, go back and we met at the second city training center music conservatory. Yes. For a brief period, they had a music conservatory. Maybe they're still doing it. I don't know, but we met singing and dancing and doing comedic songs. I actually wrote her a song about the donuts in the office break room where she sang an aria about donuts and almost choked on stage eating the donuts we would provide every show.
So Emma is an actor and sometimes writer. She's out in Connecticut right now, but before that, she honed her skills in Chicago doing theater and improv, working with different folks and fun theater companies like the Steep Theater, the Gift, Death and Pretzels, as well as studying at this school at Steppenwolf and Second City. Right now she's out in the East Coast theater scene and continuing on her own with her rom-com podcast called Go Get Your Girl. Yeah, we get into it.
We talk about a lot. We talk about changing drives in the creative career, dealing with burnout and redefining success on your own terms. So if you're into that stuff, stick around. Yeah, you can follow Emma at Emily Pizza on Instagram, as well as find her podcast, Go Get Your Girl. She's also in The Ferryman at the Hole in the Wall Theater in Connecticut, opening March 28th. And I'll add more details in the show notes. So here it is, me and Emma. Hope you enjoy.
Emma Palizza (02:19)
The end of 2023 was sort of the end of 2022 and the end of 2023 were both sort of very not great for my mental health. I was in Chicago and I love Chicago. I love all my friends there.
I mean, obviously you and Audrey and everyone. And I just, I was getting really, really burnt out on the theater scene there. And I was getting really, really burnt out on just the constant expectations of like having to network and having to like constantly be on and constantly be doing something. And so I was just not great. And then I got dropped by my agents in February of last year. And Charlie, my husband was like, well, I want to buy a house. And I was like.
Great, okay, cool. And the market was terrible. And so we sold our condo and the market was terrible. And then I think I had gotten COVID and I was not great. So the end of 2024 has been really, really amazing. In contrast, because we up and moved out of Chicago, we moved to a small town in Connecticut. I like to call it, we live in Watertown, which is.
Basically, if Gromo Girls was written by Stephen King. It's like my big way to describe it. Yeah. It's like cutesy, but like everyone's a little weird. Like the bar that we go to is in between a gun store and a cigar store. Everyone's weirdly aggressively Italian, but also very nice. It's very bizarre. It's very, very bizarre. And so we moved here and just sort of, because Charlie can work from home and I just sort of like started from fresh. And I think that my goal for
2024 was just to sort of like go back and like find the joy of like, what do I enjoy doing, you know? And so I just sort of did that and I got the pretty much the same jobs back in Chicago, just here in Connecticut. And so I senior nice patient at a few different schools, which is acting for hospitals for people that don't know. And also I work at a bridal store, which is what I did back in Chicago. And yeah, and then eventually I got up the nerve to just sort of be like,
do I want to continue acting? Where is this sort of like leading me creatively? Is that really fulfilling me? And I guess it was yes. I think I just got burnt out on the hustle. And so I'm doing a Christmas show, which is absolutely delightful and wonderful. It's on a train, which is magical and stressful at the same time. And I'm doing this play in the new year that I told you about. And I was supposed to do a Shakespeare in the summer, but the company lost their funding. But like,
I'm working way more than I did and it's fulfilling me a little bit more because I'm picking and like doing stuff that I actually really like instead of just doing jobs just so that I can work with that theater company and like work my way up and do stuff like that, you know?
Mishu Hilmy (05:14)
So how did you go about your thought process of, I'm thinking about getting back into acting. How much of your approach accounted for the risk of burnout? What were you doing or what were you thinking about to say, you know what, I'm just going to take a swing and jump back in now in this community than say, you know, Chicago.
Emma Palizza (05:32)
Yeah, I think it was just sort of, mean, technically I never stopped because standardized patient is acting. But I, it was, I just asked one of my fellow standardized patient coworkers what the best theater companies to work for in Connecticut were, just like, just sort of dipping my toes in, just to sort of like see. And she told me about this holiday job, this holiday train job. And so it was like that.
and going into the rehearsal room again and then being like, yeah, I actually really miss this. I actually really love this and it does fulfill me creatively and I'm tired all the time, but in the best way. And I think that the big thing was as soon as I realized that, I miss being in the rehearsal room, was like, okay, I think I should keep doing this.
Mishu Hilmy (06:27)
perspective shift like what what made you notice you know the the difference from say being at a rehearsal in chicago versus being at a rehearsal you know where you're at now
Emma Palizza (06:38)
I mean, a rehearsal room is a rehearsal room and this is like such a big production. There's so many people, but I think that there's like a little bit less stress, a little bit less like this has to be perfect. mean, there is some level of that because it's sort of like this big tourist attraction in Connecticut. It's the Essex steam train, which is.
a steam train that has been in a Hallmark movie and also was the train in Indiana Jones. I've learned so many facts about trains. Me too. But I think the biggest part is like the enthusiasm and the inclusiveness of everyone that I'm working with. It was kind of a revelation of everyone was like, well, you do what works for you creatively because you're essentially by yourself and you're doing this one person show for 90 minutes. So every single one of your like
Castmates is there to like help support you and help you to learn how the train show goes. But at the end of the day, it's what works for you. So I think it was just like all the supportiveness of everyone was kind of like a nice little shift. Not saying that actors and cast people and theaters in Chicago are not supportive. It was just sort of like, it took me a while to get to a point where it felt like it was okay to do the process that I wanted to do.
If that makes sense.
Mishu Hilmy (07:58)
What shift in motivation might have happened that say motivated you to go out and audition in book rolls in Chicago versus what shift in motivation happens in Connecticut and then like yeah, how how is your process change at least internally like what's yeah, what's been that change? So I guess I'll do two questions
Emma Palizza (08:14)
The biggest difference was when I moved to Chicago, it was right out of college. And it was that mindset of I majored in theater and I knew that I've always known that this is like a part of my life. It's who I am as a person. I'm an actor. And so it was that big sort of competition. I don't know if you experienced this when you graduated college of like who can get successful the fastest, like who can move out there and like book all the roles and like.
be the person that's gonna go back to school and be like, let me tell you kids how it is in the real world. And so it was a lot of what was expected and what I thought I should do and what I thought I should, how I should be acting and like what audition pieces I should be doing and things that I should be doing to be successful versus like when everything blew up in my face and I moved out here and I just sort of like decided that like.
actually, I just want to do the stuff because I was lucky enough to do some stuff in Chicago that really did fulfill me creatively and made me really happy. And that's the stuff that you just sort of hold on to. And that's the stuff that you just sort of like that you dream about and that you think about in the stories that you tell as well as like the really shitty ones too. But like it's it's that sort of feeling that you're constantly chasing of.
being able to just sort of like flourish as an actor. And I realized when I moved here that I have the agency and the ability to just do stuff that like brings me joy. Cause if I'm gonna carve out time in my schedule and from my day jobs and you know, make it a rehearsal schedule, work into my schedule and make a show work into my schedule. I'm, I want to be happy doing it. I want to have fun. You know, I don't, I don't want to constantly be like, my God, I can't with this play.
Like there's so many shows that I've been a part of where I've been backstage and I'm just like, I feel like this is torture, you know? Like it's three hours of torture and I don't want to hear these lines ever again. But I've also been in shows where I'm just like every single night it like felt like it was opening night. Like it was like brand brand new. So it's, it's just all about taking the agency and doing what brings me joy.
Mishu Hilmy (10:30)
I think there's that unexamined motivation because what got me started, say, in theater, it's like the tracks were laid based on those motivations. But the problem is getting in it and it's like, I'm just riding this ride. But five years later, you're still on the same tracks versus shifting off because the motivation, you never examined it, right? You're like, yeah, fresh out of college, just want to high art grouply, rise up, go back to my alma mater.
mentor and tell them how hard it is like that's what used to motivate you but then like four or five six eight however many years in you're like shit why am i
Emma Palizza (11:06)
Why am I still doing this? Why am I pretending to be nice to people that are terrible to me? Like why in order to get a job? Like why am I going to see all these terrible plays just so that I can get some face time in with like other industry folks? Like I just got so sick and tired of doing that. And it wasn't like year after year, it was the same thing. And I would have these breakdowns just like, I don't understand what I'm doing. Like what?
I'm doing, what am I doing here? Like I should be doing more and I'm not. And I feel like I should be doing more work and I'm not, but I'm doing all the things that they told me in all the classes that I paid for to do and it's not working. And so at some point I just decided I'm going to use a little philosophy reference here. but I just like, I wanted to stop being Sisyphus. I wanted to stop.
pushing that rock up the hill and I wanted to push that rock down the hill and not just down the hill but like out of the field and like into a whole new scape and maybe not even have a rock. Maybe I have, I don't know, freaking pumpkin. I don't know, I say that because there's like a pumpkin coaster above me but like anyway, I'm so wise.
Mishu Hilmy (12:28)
Yes.
Emma Palizza (12:28)
Yeah, but like doesn't he realize that like it's sort of you're doing the same thing over and over? You know?
Mishu Hilmy (12:35)
Yeah, right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah,
but I think it's like the arguments like the effort is the reward like oh, yeah, your mind off of this eternity It's like, you know the effort being present in the moment of lifting the rock makes you forget you need to lift the rock for
Emma Palizza (12:51)
Yeah, different takes, different takes.
Mishu Hilmy (12:54)
have you found basically a new motivating principle than say what might've been like, I used to classify my hustle as insecure ambition. Like I was just compulsively ambitious and pursuing opportunities out of like deep insecurity and fear. And like I went through, you know, probably a decade of that motivation or that motivational principle. But now that you're in Connecticut, do you have a discrete or like a well-defined principle or philosophy on like how or why you're
taking on the work you want to take on, like a specific type of motivation.
Emma Palizza (13:27)
I think that it's less success-based and more just happiness-based. I think that a lot of my motivation in Chicago and a lot of my motivation for years was like to make this my full-time job. And it's hard. It's hard to do that. And if that happens one day, that's great. That's awesome. But I also learned from being in Chicago and through all my years as an actor that the people that you think have it all together.
still have 80 day jobs. Nobody has this fucking shit together. Like unless you're Ryan Reynolds, everybody has a day job and nobody knows what they're doing. And sometimes you just look into it because of how you look and how you sound and you just fit a box and that's awesome and that's great. And I'm so very happy for their success because those are some, I've met some of those people and they are very lovely and wonderful. I'm like.
Other times it's just like you went to school with the right people and those your friends became successful and therefore you become successful and again those best of success to them because everybody is super talented in Chicago but like just was the realization that there is no fucking retirement plan.
Mishu Hilmy (14:43)
The nature of the job is a lifetime if you do pursue like a lifetime of like gigs. Like there's not much by way of security. What is it like five less than five or 10 % of the sag make over $20,000 a year or something like that. So it's like really bleak numbers at the data level. But if you're paying your identity to your financial success, then it's probably a lot of misery versus this. If you love if you love the kind of the craft.
Part of the price of the craft is like it's a gig. It's gig. It's you know gig basis job base
Emma Palizza (15:18)
Exactly. It's a job. It's a gig and it's going to go away when ends and you know, nothing, you know, something happens from it and that's awesome. But like at the end of the day, like there's a deadline and there's a timeline on that job and it's never going to be forever. And I, and then I started going down this rabbit hole of like super, super six. Have you seen Joan versus, my God, it's the
It's the Ryan Murphy show about Joan Crawford versus...
Yeah, yeah, it's like, Crawford versus Davis or Joan versus Betty or whatever. it's Joan versus Betty. There's a really great scene in it that I think was sort of the beginning of my eye opening to this whole realization, which was, I think Joan Crawford, there's a scene where she just like,
has no money and she's like basically she has to get back into acting because she's broke and that was so true of so many like 40s movie stars like they just could not financially support themselves and it's still true to this day like you might have been a super popular actor in like 1999 but you be super broke today yeah it's your job
And just sort of, think that sort of broke my brain. And I was like, there's no end game.
Mishu Hilmy (16:45)
No, that's why you see some of these sort of like really celebrated folks creating their alcohol lines, right? Whether it's yeah, Cooney or Tom Holland. I'm always surprised like every once in a while. I think variety or something will release like here's the top 10 celebrity alcohol brands. And I'm just like what you have your champagne line, especially it's like there's a lifestyle trap to you. And I think athletes also deal with it as well. You have a very small window where cash is coming in, but cash only comes in if you're working or lucky enough to say have like
you know residuals from a writing gig or a which I think is probably not
Emma Palizza (17:19)
That's
no longer a thing! That used to be a thing! No longer-
Mishu Hilmy (17:22)
You
got Netflix snucking under the radar because Spotify was like, yeah, we'll pay musicians. And Netflix was like, we're not going to do anything.
Emma Palizza (17:29)
With this I'll give them 20 bucks for their movie.
Mishu Hilmy (17:32)
Yeah, there's a bit like what I would judge is like, or not judge but project out as a kind of a identity death or an ego death when it comes to your relationship with say, you know, acting as a job. So how is that for you thinking about where you fit within the lifetime of what this job could be and what your new relationship to it is?
Emma Palizza (17:56)
Yeah, it's sort of, it's an entire personality flip. It's a reevaluation of who I am as a person because for all of my twenties and for a huge chunk of my high school years, being an actor and knowing that I will be a successful actor, I will be on TV, I will be in the movies, that was my personality. That was my entire personality was being an actor.
It just sort of like, now that I've come to terms with the fact that like, that doesn't have to be my whole personality because I, when the acting dries up at one point, which it did, who am I as a person? You know? Am I, and so it's just sort of getting back to the core of what brings me joy. so, especially like during COVID, I'm sure you also experienced the whole identity crisis, but I got into a lot of crafting. Yeah. yeah.
I got really into knitting and sewing and cross stitch and embroidery. And then also like reading and like, just sort of reevaluating that like not every single hobby. Like here's the thing, there was a huge chunk of my twenties when I wouldn't pick up a hobby unless I thought it was going to assist me as an actor in some way.
Like, can I put this on my resume? Like, that's how my brain works. And I remember, my God, bless Charlie. I remember there was this one time that like I was at an audition for, I think it was for some sort of like second city student improv show. And Charlie was like, I'm not feeling not well. I'm going to walk myself to the hospital. And I was like, I'm at an audition. I can't handle this. He was fine.
He was fine. He's British. He thinks everything meets the hospital. But it was that sort of mentality of like, can't, I'm auditioning my entire day is just this audition and this is my whole personality. And so just sort of, again, getting back to what brings me joy because at the end of the day, who, what's the point of life if you're not happy?
Mishu Hilmy (20:04)
Ultimately, and psychologically self-defeating to have like those extrinsic goals that are so completely out of your hand, right? To spend 10 or however many years being like, need to get on a TV show or any of this. It's like, all you can do is, I happy? Like, I auditioning? And while I'm auditioning, am I enjoying auditioning? While I'm rehearsing, am I challenging myself? While I'm on stage, am I taking perspective swings and risks? And if you're not enjoying any of that or you're not doing that, but it's still like...
Well, I need
Emma Palizza (20:36)
get on.
Mishu Hilmy (21:01)
nine, 12 year old is like that. That's a fine motivation and enthusiasm initially, but going to break your heart if you still hold on to like this needs to happen.
Emma Palizza (21:10)
Right? Oh my God. then you get a little bit jaded too. There have been so many people here in Chicago that... I am or not in Chicago, in Connecticut, that have asked me, they're like, so you lived in Chicago. Did you do those improv schools? Did you do the improv stuff? And I had to, at first I was like, let me tell you a thing or two about those schools. And then I had to watch myself because I was like...
And not just because you experienced something doesn't mean that they're gonna experience it. So you need to stop bad-mouthing everything.
Mishu Hilmy (21:45)
Like you said, agency, right? You're at a position where you've done some thought and redefined what success is for you and made it more a joint driven process rather than an outcome driven process, which I think takes courage because whatever societal or even personal beliefs you had or have held of what success means and to retool them so it's completely individually your own.
Emma Palizza (21:56)
the
Mishu Hilmy (22:11)
rather than like, well, mom or dad will be happy or my inner child will be happy because I got this show.
Emma Palizza (22:18)
Exactly. Because at the end of the day, I'm the only one that's doing this or that's going to get anything out of us. Right. You know, I mean, my husband, he won't get anything out of it except for having to sit through a play or sit through a thing that he has to go to.
And regardless, at the end of the day, he's going to tell me I did a good job.
Mishu Hilmy (22:38)
There is that part that is the financial component and traditional quote-unquote success does at least outwardly point to ease or financial comfort, but it also has prices that you might not see or might not know of there as well. So like, you still working on your podcast? Like how does that sort of integrate at your creative expression as well as like the tools you use to stay kind of creative and express yourself?
Emma Palizza (23:02)
Totally. I think that also helped me to sort of like bridge into what brings me joy because I started doing the podcast because with my friend Katie and it's a podcast called Go Get Your Girl and we watch rom-coms and then we talk about them. And it was just sort of something that I wanted to do to just sort of fulfill me myself creatively. And I wanted to do it with someone that I love and that I have fun with. And now it's just sort of like something that just brings me joy because I get to.
see my friend once a week and just like it's ended up just being a bunch of just us like chatting for an hour sometimes an hour and a half and it's still it is a creative outlet in a different way because there's no acting involved and it's literally just talking to my friend and then recording it but i did learn a lot about marketing and i learned a lot about like the upkeep of podcasts which sometimes it's hard spoiler alert you have to do stuff but
At the end of the day, again, it's all about, you know, if it stops being fun for her and I, then we're not gonna do it anymore. But it continues being a bit of joy and it gives us an excuse to force the other one to watch some really insane movies. Like we did Hot Frosty. Rishu, I What? What? Yes, it is that new-
He's basically like Buddy the elf but a snowman come to life. Like you will think from the title that it is going to be terrible. But me too. I dare you to watch it and not be charmed.
Mishu Hilmy (24:38)
Yeah,
no. WeeDogs, you're watching Charmed right now. my god! I'm in the mood to be charmed.
Emma Palizza (24:43)
like old one from the-
I rewatching that because I was like in sort of like that feel I rewatched Buffy, I rewatched Angel. I was doing all of those and I was like obviously Charmed. I loved Charmed as a kid. But like I couldn't get over how much they overly sexify them so hard.
Mishu Hilmy (24:53)
Yeah
It's, I'm like, who's gay? Like it just, the first three episodes were like all men are trash, or feminists, you know, move. And then it's just like, no bras, wear the small.
Emma Palizza (25:13)
What is happening? The tiniest little crop tops of all time and just like wearing around the house.
Mishu Hilmy (25:16)
What are you?
Like I can't look. Yeah. And then it's like the softest brain rot I've watched.
Emma Palizza (25:26)
Love
that. I love that. Maybe I should give it another watch. Charlie and I have been watching, we started Poirot, a little bit more high brow. And by high brow, I just mean it's British and they make jokes and there's murder. We're officially in our old person.
Mishu Hilmy (25:29)
No, I'm gonna
How do you navigate the challenges of learning a new medium and learning a new publishing model? you know, it's totally I'm completely unaware of it. I'm just recording. No, I know. What like what what was your approach to go to YouTube University? Like what have you learned? Which parts do you like the most? Which ones do you like?
Emma Palizza (25:59)
University was definitely a big help. Also, like Reddit, I hate to say, there was a lot of me just scouring Reddit of like, what is the best way to do this? And like, there's a lot of, you know, tools of Google how to start a podcast, which I did a lot of in January, I'm sure you've also done. And then, you know, I got really inspired. I'm even staring at my like my podcast schedule, which I have not kept up with. I need to keep up with more. And like,
things to do, but like it's challenging in and of its own right, but it's, it's fun. And I think that when I first moved, cause I had nothing going on, it kept me busy, which was nice. and, and I mean, the parts that I really enjoy are the content creating parts, because I love talking and I love talking about myself. Yes. And then there's a whole part of the podcast where we just like make fun of my husband.
Mishu Hilmy (26:49)
Yeah, that's it.
Nice.
Emma Palizza (26:56)
in his taste in movies. And so there, that's always really fun. But I also really love the engagement because it's super fun whenever, whenever he's listening to it and he goes, actually, I have some corrections here. Or my mom will be like, Emma, I feel like I'm getting to know you so much better. Because I'm talking a lot about, you know, x rated things that I don't talk to my mother about. I found out what my mom's body count is. Yep. Because we did What's Your Number.
And so Katie and I dared each other to ask our moms, we guessed what our moms' nips were, and then we asked and we were both wrong.
Mishu Hilmy (27:34)
yeah, pleasantly surprised, I hope.
Emma Palizza (27:37)
Pleasantly surprised shocked is one way to put it. Yeah, it's a great time I think that that's that's always the fun is it is like connecting with people and like Getting text messages from friends that I haven't talked to you in a while them being like it's like listening to you You know at work and it's nice to hear you every week and I miss you and it's like my god I miss you too. Thank you for listening
Mishu Hilmy (28:02)
You had your motivations for when you first started say, you your acting career and because like podcasting is fairly new, like how have you found alignment with like what's motivating you to do this and stay consistent? Like how are your goals internally based or how are they externally based? Like what's your definitions for success at least currently?
Emma Palizza (28:22)
Um, my definition for success for us is that we keep going. And I mean, I think that at the end of the day, my inspiration for this podcast is that I'm workaholic and I can't not be doing something. So even at the end of the day, if I have nothing, at least I have this wonderful podcast with my friend Katie and also the
Mishu Hilmy (28:28)
Mmm.
Emma Palizza (28:51)
discussion of the screenplay that we wrote that we need to edit that will eventually happen. was first draft was like two or three years ago, but we're getting to it. We're getting to it.
Mishu Hilmy (29:01)
Yeah, yeah. The master wastes nothing.
Emma Palizza (29:04)
Exactly, exactly. All the time in the world. And so it's just sort of, it's that. again, it's a wonderful way for me to like see one of my best friends every week and just talk about movies and also force my husband to watch the movies he would never watch. Like Hot Frosty.
Mishu Hilmy (29:22)
Have there been any sort of like technical skills or perspective shifts that you've been surprised that you've gained from say like going into a new medium or trying to have a different
Emma Palizza (29:31)
I think that like not looking at numbers was a big thing. It's always fun to look at numbers, but like also you don't want to disappoint yourself. And so just remembering that you're doing it for yourself and you're not, you're not doing it for other people. You're doing it for yourself. That was a big perspective change. And, and also like not caring if people like it or not, because we end up talk the way that we started was like, so
just dipping our toes in the water and like seeing where it goes in terms of format and in terms of what we talk about and stuff like that. But the way that Katie and I are is we are two over sharers and it just turned out to be us just everything is on the table. Like we can talk about anything and everything, whether that be about like sex or talk about like.
you know, bodily functions or anything like that that Emma in her twenties would be horrified to talk about and afraid that other people would listen to. But now it's just sort of like you can listen if you want or you could not. But like, I think it's funny. And so that's all that matters.
Mishu Hilmy (30:33)
curious like how many conversations did it take to come to that discovery and then the other question is like how has it helped sharpen say your like your personal point of view in terms of like what you want to
Emma Palizza (30:45)
Yeah, I think it's definitely opened me up as a person because you get really comfortable with everyone hearing your views on certain things. it's also helpful. mean, because I have a co-host, we just sort of egg each other on. And so I'm like, well, if she's willing to talk about it, I'm willing to talk about it. And anything that we talk about that we want to cut, like we'll talk and we'll be like, can we actually, can I edit this episode? Because there's this one, but I don't want my mom to know.
And so it's like made me way more open as a person. And I feel like I, I feel like it's important to be open because then other people can feel like it's safe to be open as well. Cause I think that for a long time, I felt so stifled as a person and I don't know if it was just like, you know, the way I was grown up or the way I was raised or the way that like society was with women on the early thousands, you know, you're watching Tarn.
Mishu Hilmy (31:40)
Yeah
Emma Palizza (31:43)
But like, it was just a huge part of it where I was afraid of normal things that happened to talk about them. And I was afraid of like my feelings. Like I didn't realize that I was, I had high functioning anxiety until I was in my thirties because nobody talked about it. And I was just like, well, I guess this is just the way everyone functions is they're just hyper, super obsessive about things.
Mishu Hilmy (32:09)
Right.
Emma Palizza (32:11)
And finally, like getting to talk about that in therapy and then talk about it on the podcast made me feel like, hey, if I talk about it with other people, someone in this group of friends that I'm talking to might have something similar going on and want then get the courage to talk about it or at least acknowledge that something, you know, that they might need help in some sort of way.
Mishu Hilmy (32:33)
Like what's your editing process? You do you pass it between each other? It's like, hey, I'll take this one. Are you on an audition? Are you using an integrated browser like the app? Like how are you currently editing? And like, what's your mental state like while you're editing? it an enjoyable experience?
Emma Palizza (32:49)
It is. I will say when I started, was so much more like hyper like diligent about it, like every single little and stuff I would want to take out and it would take hours. And then I was like, this just isn't sustainable. Like we can't I can't do this. And so we do we pass it. We do one episode one week. I'll edit one episode the next week. Katie will edit and and then vice versa, unless some one of us like is sick or like has something going on and like, can you
do this and we just sort of like flip flop that way. Now I will like put it on and I'll listen to it like a podcast. And so like, I'll like have something else that I'm doing. Like I'll be like doing the dishes or I'll be folding laundry or sewing or something. And anytime I hear a bit that like, I'm like, this is a little unnecessary. Let's cut this bit out. Then I'll go back and cut it out because I think that we've gotten a lot.
better as podcast hosts of self editing. Sometimes we go off the rails and we'll talk about nonsense for hours. I always think that some of the best content, Charlie will disagree, but, but Charlie's opinion doesn't matter anyways. Charlie hates the princess bride, so he can suck it. But so like now it's like a little bit easier to edit and then just like tag on our theme music at the beginning and at the end. so like, it's just.
Mishu Hilmy (33:57)
If.
Emma Palizza (34:10)
become a little bit more streamlined that way and it's easier to get it out. And I do it in Audacity, Katie does it in GarageBand. Just cause I learned Audacity before I tried doing it in GarageBand and was like, this is a nightmare. I can't do this. And again, YouTube university helped me with that. And just sort of like going through and just messing around and figuring out, know, does this make it sound good?
Mishu Hilmy (34:34)
I don't really have like, I like editing videos, but I don't like sound mixing because I just don't think I have the air to like, have that patience of, it's too mid or it's too trebly or like, I over amped the noise reduction. So now it just sounds like everyone's underwater. Like after a while, like I just don't notice it. So then I'll sound edit and then I come back a day later and I'm like, my God, this is almost unlistable. So we'll see how I feel about that editing process.
And for you, do you find that like the sheer volume of kind of your release has like alleviated what like a sense of perfectionism? Like how has your relationship with either perfectionism or publishing changed with the podcast and like how has that potentially impacted your acting?
Emma Palizza (35:20)
I think that definitely it's a lot of, hold on tightly, let go lightly. It's something I learned at the school at Stappalaw. I'm gonna name about that there. But it is something that I think has been very core in my acting career and in now my podcast, lack of a word, career. In my creative career. It's a lot of.
Do what you want to make it as best that like makes you feel like you're putting out a good product. But at the end of the day, you need to do what's safe for you mentally, time-wise. You cannot over obsess. You have to just sort of like let it be its thing. And if it's not perfect, it's not perfect. And here's the thing, the little things that you think make it un-perfect, no one's gonna catch, except maybe your husband. A few times that he's just like, Emma, I need you to back off off the mic.
I'm just like, you're not in the room, Charles. Get out of here.
Mishu Hilmy (36:23)
Yeah, I was talking to someone recently about perfectionism and it's also like this complete and total lack of trust in the other. You know, you're sort of projecting this story of how they're interpreting your work, but it's also like if you put something out there that they're not interested or don't like, like let them walk away. It's not your responsibility. They don't want to, if they see flaws and they're not into it.
Okay, but the perfectionist is like, no, I need to control every single thought or attitude about anything I make.
Emma Palizza (36:53)
And that's the thing, and that you can't make everyone love everything. And you just have to do the best job that you can and hope that people like it. And if people don't like it, well, you did your best. Performing for kids has sort of been a little humbling in that way.
Mishu Hilmy (37:08)
Yeah,
so is this a new thing or where does this kind of come from?
Emma Palizza (37:11)
The Christmas train, the way that it is, it's on a train. Obviously, it's the Christmas train. It's the Essex steam train. Polar Express. And each, it's a steam train and each train car has a different character. And basically you go in in October for the beginning of rehearsals, you come up with a character and what your role is to the North Pole and to Santa and what you do. And then you have to write the sort of like, it's called the first 15 minutes, which is.
There's two songs in it, in between that, have to sort of like build in like, this is who I am character wise and this is my job. Also, here's all these puns and blah, blah,
Mishu Hilmy (37:48)
You're crafting you're like writing you're writing on this like a 15 minute set piece. Yeah.
Emma Palizza (37:52)
And then, and the show itself is 90 minutes, because you were going 90 minutes to the North Pole and then back. And the first 15 minutes is the only scripted part. The rest of it, you're just sort of going off of what the train cars vibes are. And so you're playing improv games. Sometimes like some people have other like what's called parody songs, which are like they take Shake It Off and they make it about Santa. I don't know. It's like Santa off, Santa off. That actually sounds wrong. I know.
And, and it's a lot and then like, the last 10 minutes, you're singing carols and stuff, and you do like a farewell song. But it's most it's 90 % improv. And you have to just basically, you have to entertain these kids, and they have to be on board and they're right there in your face. They're like, they're they sometimes they want to play along. Sometimes
Mishu Hilmy (38:36)
Yeah.
Emma Palizza (38:49)
they just want to look out the window and you just have to, you know, read the room and vibe with it and also be okay with, you know, the fact that sometimes nobody wants to listen to your first 15 minutes. They just all want to talk amongst themselves.
Mishu Hilmy (39:03)
Like, there's so much there. like, how did, at least in terms of the craft process, how much has your time at like Second Cities Training Center helped contribute to a confidence or proficiency in-
Emma Palizza (39:17)
absolutely
like foundational like the huge thing that gave me a leg up to other newbies and why because like I wasn't able to go to like every single rehearsal because I just didn't work with my schedule and I was just like I was like I'm a director now and the director was like I'm little nervous to be it's a little overwhelming and then I get in there and I learned that 75 % of the rehearsals after you
before like around learning the first 15 minutes and like building your first 15 minutes is basically streamlining all of that improv training as much as he can into these like newbies that have some people have done improv, some people haven't, but like, you know, it's just all about there's so many games that we played at Second Study that like he introduces and he's explaining and he's just like, we're going to play yes and I'm like,
Mishu Hilmy (40:01)
.
Emma Palizza (40:12)
Super duper. my beer. But like a lot of the games and stuff, it's just, he's, it's cause he loves Viola Spoolin. And so he's just taking all of these from her book and teaching them. And so everyone's like really interested and like hungry for all this information. And I'm like the Jada chick in the back is just like, I know this already. But it was very like, like important. And I think that I wouldn't have been able to do as
of a job and wouldn't be where I am in the process without all of my second-degree training. I mean, like, it's just sort of the basis of just, you know, going with the flow. You just gotta go with the
Mishu Hilmy (40:56)
So it's like, you know, there's the ego of the performer. You're a human being and you might see, you know, a car where half the people are just chattering, kids are looking out the windows. So like, what tools do you use when you're there and you're going like, all right, this is this car tonight. Like what ways do you kind of roll with the punches?
Emma Palizza (41:19)
It's a lot of reevaluating the tools in my toolbox. Being like, okay, well, this is gonna work tonight, obviously, with them. Nobody's paying attention. So let me try a game where everyone has to participate and see if that'll work and that'll get everyone on board. And if that doesn't work, then, you know, maybe we're just gonna do a bunch of like trivia games and see who wants to participate then until Santa Claus comes along. Cause yeah, Santa Claus comes. And yes, Santa's there.
I work with Mr. and Mrs. Claus. It's fine. Don't worry about it. that's- It's very impressive. You should be very impressed by me. I have not yet met Rudolph, but I talk about him a lot. But I think that just sort of the thing that kept me going with the show, because at first it was just like, wow, this is like really exhausting. you know, people aren't like paying attention, but then you'll get the cars where like, I've had cars where sometimes the little kids will follow me around, even though I go, you should be sitting in your seats.
Mishu Hilmy (41:52)
That's impressive.
Emma Palizza (42:18)
while the train's moving. But I had one where we were doing carols and this little girl just wanted to sing carols with me so bad. And so then because she wanted to sing carols with me, all the other little kids started coming up to me and I was like, well, the train's moving and this is hazard. So I sat down on the floor and we all sat in this little semicircle and we just sang Christmas carols. It was really sweet and wonderful. And then I had another little girl, because my whole thing was I'm a Christmas tree topper come to life. And I'm Claire Maple, the Christmas angel.
I'm a Christmas tree topper come to life. And my job at the North Pole is to keep track of all the tremendous Christmas traditions. Because everyone celebrates Christmas just a little differently. Right? I was like, what can I do that builds in a job for me? Going around asking people's favorite tradition. And then also something that can like feel inclusive and make everyone feel like my Christmas is just as valid as your Christmas or my holiday is just as valid as your holiday.
Because I have had some non-Christmas celebrators and I was like, what's your favorite Christmas tradition? And they go, we don't celebrate Christmas. They go, Holidays! Hanukkah? And I heard, and the mom goes, nice save Clara, exactly.
Mishu Hilmy (43:22)
This is it.
That's great. That's like, yeah, it's just seems like there's a lot of joy there. Do you think two questions, one is like from the start of this process to where you're at today with it, like what, what have you learned and like, how would you use that to improve? then the second thing is, would you do this again, say like next?
Emma Palizza (43:44)
Yeah, I think that in terms of my process, what I've learned is that I still take things way too seriously. As an actor, I've had many breakdowns around this. And it's just like, at the end of the day, I was like having a breakdown after my first show and the company manager and I were like chatting and she was like, here's the thing, Emma, this is just a Christmas show. Nobody knows how the show is supposed to be. And I was like, I was so particular about, I was like, but this didn't happen, that didn't happen.
And I was like, and I just feel like I did the bad job. And she's like, did they have a good time? I was like, yes, they all said they had a great time. They thanked me. She goes, then they have a good time. And that's all that matters. At the end of the day, we're not brain surgeons. so it's like, again, like having to just remember that it's not life or death. You're just performing. You can do the best of your ability. And you know,
that's all you can do at the end of the day. Because I learned that there is no way to do the show without doing the show. Like rehearsing is, for people that haven't done improv, it is very valuable and it is very important to be at all of those rehearsals. And especially like for building that first 15 minutes. But then you get to a point to where you can only run your show as many times as you can without, you know, having the train moving and having the like the clauses and like the like.
elves and stuff coming into your car and like being there in real time, there's no way to rehearse it without doing it because you're also dealing with a live audience that's different every time. You just, have to keep doing the show. And, and so the everyone's first show is a hot mess because it's not going to go as perfectly planned in your brain. There were moments during my first show that I was like, this is, I'm dying. I'm done. This is death. I, this is, I hate myself and I hate my life.
Mishu Hilmy (45:40)
Okay.
Emma Palizza (45:41)
But then I did the next show and the next one and it just kept getting better and it kept getting more sharp and it kept, my character kept getting more fleshed out and it's just sort of that reminder of just keep going. You know, you're gonna have a first pancake, it's gonna be shitty, but you learn something from it. You learn something from every failure. And yeah, and then, and so I think that for sure I'm definitely gonna do this again next year. Cause it's just a really lovely group of people. I mean, it's a huge group. There's like 70 plus actors that do this.
Mishu Hilmy (46:11)
Bye.
Emma Palizza (46:11)
Yeah, it's a huge group, but the money's really good and it's a lot of fun. it's the seeing the kids when I watch walk off the train and they recognize me and they go, Clara, make-bel, Clara make-bel. You know, as an actor, we all just want recognition. But it's like those moments where they're just so happy and I've made their Christmas and they get so excited when they see Santa and there was this one little girl, cause like,
My whole thing as a character is that I got so excited when I came alive, I forgot my wings at home. And it was also a way for me not to have to build wings and have wings on the train. So sometimes I'll like slip in a thing to a kid and I'll be like, Hey, can you me a favor? Can you put in a good word with Santa? I think this year is the year that I'm going to get a brand new set of wings, but I need you to put in a good word for me. And one girl who did it and she came up to me after she said, no, I was standing right there when Santa goes through. She goes, Clara, day,
new wings and we want them to be purple!" And I was like, nice, that's magical. That's very sweet.
Mishu Hilmy (47:17)
Any one thing like creative process wise that you've started doing that you've noticed has had a big impact, whether it's like a small change or perspective change or an actual tool you've been using, like what's one thing that is somewhat new to you but that has had like an outsized impact on your creativity this year? Yeah.
Emma Palizza (47:36)
I think sort of re-evaluate, or not re-evaluating, but re-utilizing something that I was always told to do and never really did, like, because it's hard to do when you're super, super anxious and super, super, you want to plan everything. But it's going before you're ready. Like, doing stuff before you think that you're ready and like, just doing it. And again, like, giving yourself that...
support and comfort to know that like, it's gonna be bad. And that's okay. That's okay. It's gonna be shitty the first time my first episode of our podcast is the most listened to. I think it might not be the best. It's about an hour and a half long of us talking about when Harry met Sally and it is a lot of just nonsense. Even my mom was like, Emma, you need to like, just talk about the movie. I was like, but people want to hear my story is about me.
Mishu Hilmy (48:34)
hehe
Emma Palizza (48:35)
But yeah, it's going for your ready and like being able to take feedback, being able to like listen and learn from every single failure that you do and then not taking yourself too seriously.
Mishu Hilmy (48:48)
Thank you so much for sharing. It's been an absolute delight.
Emma Palizza (48:51)
As always, Mishu, as always.
Mishu Hilmy (49:01)
Before setting off with a little creative prompt, I just wanted to say thank you for listening to Mischief and Mastery. If you enjoyed the show, please rate it and leave a review on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts. Your support does mean a lot. Until next time, keep taking care of yourself, your likeness, curiosity, and sense of play. And now for a little Mischief motivation.
All right, here's your creative prompt. Take, I don't know, 60, 120 seconds, one, two minutes and write five to 10 creative activities that genuinely bring you joy, regardless of industry validation. And then pick one. Do it for a couple minutes today, maybe five, 10 minutes and see if that helps. I think research does show that reconnecting with intrinsic motivation reduces burnout and boosts long-term creativity. So give it a shot, give it a shot. List some things you like and love and
Do it for a few minutes, listen to an album, write, draw, dance, what have you. All right, hopefully this is a fun little exercise and I'll see you next time.