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Interested in conversations about the nature of reality, multidimensionality, truth, being, religion, spirituality, life, love, consciousness, and language?
Wondering how to thrive in an uncertain and rapidly changing world?
Do you want to learn about things you've never experienced or heard of?
If so, we might just be for you!
Wendy Frase 0:00
Welcome to wake up call for the soul with Bill and Wendy. Hello Bill.
Bill Frase 0:07
Hey Wendy.
Wendy Frase 0:09
Well, in today's episode five, we are going to talk about no progress without practice? I guess that's a question. So now Bill is making me do these questions at the beginning of each episode, which I really like, because what did you say about questions, Bill?
Bill Frase 0:29
Well, questions are an invitation. They're well, they're actually a coaching tool, something that's used to invite us into new or different possibilities or perspectives.
Wendy Frase 0:41
I like it because that's what we are hopefully doing on this podcast, is inviting people to different perspectives or possibilities. Love it, but we did want to clean up a little bit from the previous episode. You wanted to talk a little bit more about sacrifice, once again,
Bill Frase 0:58
In a way, it's sort of clean up for episodes two, three and four at this point, you know, as I've been thinking about this word, and I've been thinking about how people use it, and looking at the definition, I'm thinking that maybe I left out a few, a couple of really important words in that definition. So I've updated this in the show descriptions, but I just wanted to put it in the podcast verbally here to provide a little bit more context, because sacrifice is a word that is used in a lot of different contexts with a lot of different things going on and people applying this label to them. So again, I'm really narrowing this definition for for our purposes in this ongoing conversation. So here's my revised definition of sacrifice, sacrifice, the violent death, exile or diminishment of someone or something by others as an offering to or for something greater. This may be perceived in real time or through retrospective reinterpretation, and so that by others part is really important, because a lot of people, when they think about sacrifice, they think about self sacrifice, and I'm that's not even on my radar here,
Wendy Frase 2:06
and that came up in a conversation we had with a group yesterday. So I think that's helpful, because they their focus was more on self sacrifice, or their questions were more on self sacrifice when you brought up this new idea,
Bill Frase 2:18
yeah, yeah, And so making it really clear that this is the issue that I have with sacrifice and in this entire model that we've gone through over now an arc of several different episodes, it's the issue of people thinking that it's okay or necessary to sacrifice someone or something else for the greater good. That's That's where the issue is, and that it's flowing from this lie of separation, which then leads people into perceptions of fear and anxiety, then leads them into perceptions of lack, disconnection from our own deep desires, leading us to copy other people's desires through this process of memetic desire, which leads to rivalry, which then leads to violence, which leads to blame, scapegoating, murder, aka, then retrospectively, because people have had this, oh, we're all good now experience calling it sacrifice and saying that it's sacred. Sacrifice is at the end of this very long process that begins with separation and and by calling attention to it, though, I feel like it's important to call attention to the entire paradigm that that feeds this idea that there is no progress without us taking out someone or something else through violence, control, domination. So I have a couple of dueling headlines here. You know, self sacrifice motivated by pure love may promote unity and harmony. Sacrificing others motivated by separation and fear promotes even more separation and disharmony, despite temporary appearances to the contrary.
Wendy Frase 4:01
And what comes to me there, too, is it's not even just about when we think of religion and the past. Sacrifice isn't just murder. We can sacrifice, and we do every day, human beings or groups of people or whatnot, to make progress. We think is progress, but it's not really. But we think sometimes even Wars is a sacrifice. Our our soldiers and our people go off and it's a sacrifice, even if we don't plan on them being murdered, they're sacrificing.
Bill Frase 4:37
And the big one for me, why I include in here this idea of others, not necessarily human, is the idea of our planet and all the life she supports that so much of what people on this planet consider to be progress has been through the sacrifice of the life of this planet.
Wendy Frase 4:58
I think it is helpful for you to keep saying these things on each episode, because this is an ongoing conversation, and I have heard you speak of these things over the years, and it takes me even time to digest this, because I'll say again, well, what was that you said before? So you think it is very helpful, and listeners, if you continue listening, you will hear Bill bring up these ideas over and over. And I think it is helpful, because the more we hear something, the more we hopefully, if we don't understand, perhaps question its truth or its reality for ourselves.
Bill Frase 5:35
Yeah. I mean, the power of paradigms comes from the fact that we don't even know they exist. So a big part of this podcast for me is pointing out that we have this paradigm of separation, which then leads to all of these awful processes and dynamics, and it doesn't have to be that way. And this podcast, for me is one of my efforts to attempt to help awaken people to the truth, to the fact that this paradigm of separation is ruling the planet and destroying life as we know it, and pointing us toward a different direction. Not just saying, well, separation isn't true. Well, no, but then for me, it's the very opposite that is true, unity, oneness. This is where we are headed as a species.
Wendy Frase 6:22
And you have been talking about separation and also resistance for a long time now with me, the sacrifice thing, though, it's a little bit new. So even I'm trying to soak in and get used to this new idea that you're bringing forward,
Bill Frase 6:36
It's new for me, too, and that's part of the reason why I'm doing what I'm doing here, because I'm clarifying, right? You. You, dear listeners, are getting to listen to Bill clarify his his languaging and his thinking about these things in the flow of the actual process.
Wendy Frase 6:53
Okay, well, perhaps we better move on, because otherwise this episode will turn into sacrifice part two. But we're really talking today about no progress without practice. So let's dive right into that. I know you probably will once again, give a definition of your definition of practice, but other things you want to say leading into
Bill Frase 7:18
This, yeah, just to remind listeners, in our last episode, we talked about these two different kinds of love, natural love, and source love. And like I said in the last episode, there's a lot of methods out there already to help people purify what I would call their natural love nature. And so I just direct people to all those resources out there. They won't necessarily be called natural love purification, but lots of forms of meditation and prayer and activities, service, all of these things can help people to purify their natural love nature. So I'm not interested in talking about that. What I am interested in talking about is my particular practice for seeking to bring into my being more of this source love, this divine essence, into my being, for the transformation of my being from a natural being into what would technically be a supernatural being, gradually over time. And I share this with listeners because I don't think that this practice just is for me. I think that while everyone's practice would be unique, their experience would be unique, that perhaps if people see what I'm doing or gain some awareness of it, they might say, Oh, well, maybe I could try that.
Wendy Frase 8:38
Sounds good. So why don't you define practice for our listeners as you see it,
Bill Frase 8:45
Yeah, so for me, practice are things we do repeatedly to make progress.
Wendy Frase 8:50
Well, that's a simple definition. I love it. I can understand this one. So Bill, why don't you tell us what is your practice then?
Bill Frase 8:59
Yeah. So when I thought about this conversation, it seemed to me to maybe start with what is not essential to it, because I think when people think about spiritual practices, they have all kinds of ideas and images in their minds of what you do. So I thought, well, maybe we can strip away that stuff first and then talk about, for me what it is
Wendy Frase 9:23
That sounds great.
Bill Frase 9:24
Okay, so for me, my practice does not require verbal formulas. It does not require verbal expressions in any way, shape or form. It does not require me to engage in any hand gestures or physical postures. I can do it with my eyes open or closed. I don't have to do it at specific times or for any specific duration of time. I don't have to do it in special places or under any particular type of circumstances. As far as I know, this practice doesn't really require concepts, because concepts are a mental phenomenon, and I'm inviting people to a much deeper aspect of our being that exists way beyond the plane of the conceptual. It doesn't require words, which maybe I've already said, in a way, doesn't require thinking. Actually, it doesn't even require silence or silencing your thoughts. And a lot of these things I've shared here have come about because I've seen people who think that these things are essential to the practice. They may be important to them as a unique being, but for me, I have not detected that they are essential for me.
Wendy Frase 10:32
And I think even right away, we train people young, close your eyes, fold your hands, those kind of things. Listen to the words, those kind of things. So you're saying none of that is needed, essential, important?
Bill Frase 10:47
Exactly. Yeah, and if people incorporate these things into their practice, I don't have any issues with that. I mean, obviously I'm incorporating a lot of these things into my practice. They're a part of it, but I again, I don't consider it essential to it or required. And I think another thing that I just want to put in here too is that I want to be able to do my practice whenever and wherever and with whomsoever I desire. And so what that means is, that I can't have all those requirements. If I have those requirements. And I've seen people who have this, they're like, Bill, I can't do my practice without this. I said, but what if you really need to do it and that's not available? Do you really want to put yourself in a prison of, oh my gosh, if I'm not at my special place, I can't do my practice? That to me. I don't want to have any limits on my practice.
Wendy Frase 11:45
It sounds to me like you've simplified it for us, which I'm all about simplicity, so yay. That sounds good to me, and I agree with what you're saying, because even just an example, if you have to do it, even at your place of worship, say, and what if it burns down, if you have to do it with a certain person, and what if they're not available or around? What it is not is sometimes even more important than what it is.
Bill Frase 12:08
What's most important to me is the orientation of my core self toward divinity, source ground of being. And so that's the next thing I'm going to move into here. What do I consider to be involved in the practice so this orientation of our deepest selves toward the highest this to me, I consider to be essential, because if I desire source love, then I need to orient my deepest aspect toward source which I consider to be The highest, expressing my deepest desires for that which brings everything I desire and require. So instead of copying other people's desires, which we've talked a bit about on this podcast already, instead of looking to other people and saying, what do they want, I look deep within myself and say, What do I deeply desire and require? And for me, this practice of going directly to source with these desires allows me then to receive this source love, this higher energy and essence which then brings me everything I need to manifest all of my deepest desires through desiring this one single thing. And I put this in here expressing as much trust or faith as we can, because for me, I have the experience now where, when I go to source, I know I received the response. I know that source responds to my deepest desires and yearnings. But for people who haven't had a conscious experience of that yet, it might be helpful to, at least for a while, say, Well, someone like Bill or someone else has said that this could be a thing. So I'm just going to do my best to trust that this response is there until I know that response is available to me, and so I put that in, because again in trust and faith, I'm taking this again to my deepest part of myself, like, can I dig deep within myself and feel okay? I'm expressing this, and I'm doing my best to trust that source is is responding even if I can't perceive it in the moment. Another thing is that I find helpful is softening the mind in general, and it's really helpful to release our expectations of what we are looking for. For example, someone might look at Bill's practice and say, Oh, Bill says, Well, if I go for this source love thing, then you know, I'm going to get the money I need for my car. Well, I'm not saying that that that can't or won't happen, but the changes that are happening within us are more subtle than that, and it's possible thatou could get ideas, or you could get insights into something that changes that whole situation at a much deeper and more subtle level, and you might not even perceive through your mind that this has even happened. And so again, I just really encourage people to soften their expectations, to be more open and to just say, what's better generally? And I'm inviting people to expand their vision, to take their blinders off, to to have a broader perspective, to say, hmm, maybe this cool little thing that happened, this little synchronicity, this relationship, this thing that I wasn't anticipating, that seems to be for my benefit. Maybe it's connected to my practice. Maybe. The next thing is repetition, which is the definition of practice for me, something we do repeatedly. Discipline is for me, encouraged, meaning that doing this practice even and maybe especially when we don't want to or don't feel like it, is something that I have found to be critical for my own journey. And the more that we can take our practices and apply discipline and turn them into habits, I think that's really encouraged, because the more it's a habit, then the more we do it, the more we're receiving of this essence for the transformation of our beings.
Wendy Frase 16:23
Okay, thank you. That is a lot to think about, and I just want to recap it a bit for our listeners. So you talked about the orientation of our deepest selves, expressing then our deepest desires, expressing as much trust and faith as we can, softening the mind, repetition, discipline, habit. So when I think of these things, first of all, easy to me, seems to be repetition, discipline, habit. We've heard that a lot, and you've included that in yours, but going back to this first one, the orientation of our deepest selves with the highest how do we orient ourselves? I think that this one might be the biggest question I have of all of your I don't want to say steps, but suggestions, what it is, what a practice is.
Bill Frase 17:23
The most important thing in that item, in that first one, is the recognition that the practice that we are engaging in has to do with our deepest selves. It's not about our brain. It's not about our mind. I'm not saying that these aspects are not involved in it. What I'm suggesting is, is that I am inviting us into a deeper aspect of our being, what might be called core self, deep self, soul, something that I experience to be much more in my abdomen than I do in my head, and so this aspect of myself is what I am orienting or it's probably more accurate to say that I am recognizing that this is a real and true part of me, even if I'm not sure that it even exists at this stage. Because I'm guessing a lot of listeners might be hearing this and saying, Do I even have this thing? All I know is my mind and my body. Maybe they don't even know they have this part. And so I'm inviting us to consider the possibility that I have this deeper aspect that I may just be barely aware of, and that I am looking to orient this to to invite this aspect of myself to point in the direction, like orienting has to do with what which way you're headed. What direction are you heading?
Wendy Frase 18:49
So because that's even different than focusing, or maybe focusing is the same.
Bill Frase 18:54
See, when I focus, I think about, I think about the mind.So I'm talking about like the soul has this multi dimensionality. It has all these different ways that it can express itself. And so for me, it's more of like putting it all out there, but putting it all out there towards source. Say, Hey, source, towards
Wendy Frase 19:15
the right direction, which to you is source.
Bill Frase 19:17
So Right. So orienting that deepest aspect of myself towards source, so that I then am expressing the desires of my soul or core self towards source with this faith or trust that a response may come.
Wendy Frase 19:32
Now that makes a lot of sense. Actually, I think oriented towards source, because then the next thing is that deepest desire when I think about expressing our deepest desire in your steps here, I after we think about oriented, orienting ourselves to source the deepest desire would really for me be this source love entering my soul and changing me.
Bill Frase 19:58
Yeah.
Wendy Frase 19:59
Okay, okay. And then the trust faith part, you say, expressing as much trust and faith as we can, that seems to be a mental construct, but in our world here, we have the our soul, body, our mind, body, our we can't get away from our mind, we get stuck in things. So is that the trust and faith more of a mind thing?
Bill Frase 20:27
I'm inviting people to just do their best, if you think, because, again, a lot of us, we are meant to be these whole, integrated beings, but because of the false paradigm of separation, we have become alienated from our own parts and aspects the fact that we have to have this conversation where I have to talk about our core self as something other or different than who we really are. On other planets in the universe, this is an insane idea that they would never even think that this was possible, but we have done it on Earth. We human beings, have taken aspects of ourselves and fragmented them so much that we don't know so when it comes to trust, trust and faith, that's why I just have expressing as much as we can. What I want to invite people to do is to do their best to move their trust and faith from their head down closer to their heart, if they can. And heart is great if you're expressing some kind of faith or trust from your heart. Awesome. If you can take it even deeper and go beyond the heart into the soul, the core self, to express this trust and faith, then you're into really big money there.
Wendy Frase 21:45
And you and I, we like to talk about this idea of experiment. For me, experiments are fun because you never know what's going to happen once you've concluded your experiment, and you can make anything an experiment. So maybe we could fit this in with an experiment.
Bill Frase 22:05
Yeah, I consider my practice usually, when I'm inviting people to consider something like the practice I've been engaging in, I will sometimes frame it in the context of an experiment. And I like experiment, well, for a couple of reasons. The first reason I think I like it is that the very nature of science is the replicability of experiments. So you run an experiment, you see what the result is. You keep running experiments, and other people run those same experiments, trying to see if they can replicate your data. The other thing about it is that in an experiment, it's all about experience. The result of every experiment is some type of experience. There's some kind of data coming through some data collection device, whether it's a person's eyes or an instrument of some kind, some kind of data collection device that lets them know, well, what are the results of this experiment? Now, one of the differences, though, is that I'm inviting people to do these repeated experiments where they are both the they are the scientist and they are the test subject, all rolled into one. So this may muddy things a bit, but I don't know any other way to do spiritual practice except to be the scientist and to be the test subject. And what I'm inviting, like I said before, the softening of the mind and expectations is that I don't expect people to do this practice for a microsecond and then say, oh wow. I don't expect these kinds of results. I'm talking about drops of water in the ocean,
Wendy Frase 23:50
tiny steps.
Bill Frase 23:51
Tiny steps, yeah
Wendy Frase 23:52
I like that idea of tiny steps, because sometimes we need to even simplify it more, even when it comes to say, an exercise routine. If you decide I am going to do a tiny step of 20 minutes of walking a day, well, maybe that's even too much for you. Maybe you need to just do two minutes one minute. Maybe you just need to get a habit of putting on your tennis shoes every day because you think about taking a walk. So really, it is tiny steps and your your practice here can even be simplified more like, I guess, you could practice just orienting yourself, or silencing yourself, sitting in silence, or anything you want, really,
Bill Frase 24:36
any step in the directions of anything we've talked about here. Yeah, I consider progress
Wendy Frase 24:42
because I like making things simple, and we do over complicate things in our lives. I mean, let me just even throw in what I've learned in my upbringing in the church. Here some of my favorite scriptures, Matthew, Seven. Seven. Ask, see. Seek knock that really does fit in with what you're saying here. And then also Jeremiah, 29:13, you will seek Me and find Me when you seek me with your whole heart. That just sounds so simple to me. And I've always loved those scriptures, and they fit in so well with your steps here or your practice,
Bill Frase 25:24
and so I just want to mention again this idea of the softening of the mind and the releasing of our hardened expectations of fast results. We're dealing with very subtle things that are very powerful, but when things are operating at subtle levels. Oftentimes, our minds are not capable of being aware of those changes, because they are so gradual and they feel so natural to us that it could take us days, weeks, months, years, decades to realize, Oh my gosh, this is all different for me now. Wow. And so that's, that's why I'm really heavy.
Wendy Frase 26:03
That can be discouraging, though, too, what you just said, but it is.
Bill Frase 26:09
But what's the alternative, sacrifice?
Wendy Frase 26:12
Right.
Bill Frase 26:13
I mean, if I have this and I've got taking it out on other people for some supposed higher purpose, I'll take this every day, because I have control over it and I don't have to hurt anyone to make progress.
Wendy Frase 26:31
That's right. I mean, our lives are so full of distractions. You mentioned even taking it out on someone. But I mean, there's TV, there's shopping, there's scrolling on our phones and or there's your practice.
Bill Frase 26:50
Yeah, it's a choice, right?
Wendy Frase 26:52
And an invitation, right?
Bill Frase 26:55
Everything is offered as an invitation. This is an opportunity for people to exercise their free will choice in a direction other than what is most typical in this world at this time, that's what I'm inviting people to do. And again, right? It's an invitation. I'm sharing this because I've found it helpful, and my sense is that it may be helpful to others as well. And again, I'm interested in a whole new world here. So my focus is also on this planet being very different from what it is. But the only way this planet changes for the better is if we change. And this is, this is my way of changing. And again, there's lots of other ways to do these things, but in terms of this deep inner transformation. That is my way of seekingthat
Wendy Frase 27:45
You talked about an experiment, and in an experiment, we do measure progress. So is there a way that you measure progress?
Bill Frase 27:57
Measurement is a form of observation, and so as we observe our lives, if we engage in this practice with discipline repeatedly, these are the kinds of things that people that I would invite people to be open to being aware that might be changing or might have changed in their lives through their engagement with this practice so things like healing, physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, greater Peace, increased joy, patience, kindness, love, compassion, gentleness, spaciousness, allowance for myself and also for others as well.
Wendy Frase 28:49
So the bottom line is, you're not knocking other people's practices. You're just offering an alternative. Or how is your practice different or is it not?
Bill Frase 29:02
I can't claim to know anything about anybody else's practices. I don't know what other people are doing. I know what I'm doing, and my sense from what I see on social media, the people I come across, the places I hang out, is that I don't perceive many people engaging in this particular practice, I do see people engaging in different practices, the ones that I'm aware of mostly from social media. They don't look or feel anything like what I'm up to, as far as I can tell. And that's why I'm sharing this, because I do perceive it to be a legitimate alternative, especially if someone has tried one or more spiritual practices and given them a real shot, and you still feel like something's missing or off, then I'm inviting you to to engage with this practice, to see how it might help or support you again. It requires time to stick with it, to get a sense that something may have changed or shifted.
Wendy Frase 30:00
Yeah, okay, so I understand orienting ourselves now based on what you said, expressing as much trust and faith as we can. Got it, softening mind, repetition, discipline, habit. So it almost seems like the key is expressing our deepest desires for that which brings everything we desire and require. Can you speak once again, just more about that, just to hone that in?
Bill Frase 30:27
Again, you've talked about how much you like simplicity, as do I Yes. And so instead of me expressing again, I can express a gazillion desires to source from the depths of my being. And source will, in source's, own way, respond to those desires I'm suggesting. And maybe this is where you talked about focus before, maybe by focusing on this one thing, this source essence, this source love, by focusing on that singular power, primarily from deep within. It's that the power of that blessing is so great that it will change us in ways that make it possible for us to attract, manifest, co-create everything we deeply desire to experience in our lives, in our existence, and so it's kind of one power that brings everything?
Wendy Frase 31:30
Yeah, I think that makes sense. And I think for me, I have heard about your practice. I have I do my best to practice your practice. But for me, I think the easiest thing, if I'm just going to say it, I'm going to sit in silence, I'm going to orient myself, and I am going to desire source love to enter my soul and allow me to be changed. That's for simplicity sake. That's what I guess, when I really feel like I get into your practice, that that is what I'm doing, because through me, my life will be changed, and then I can change people's experience in this world, my relationship with my family, my friends, my community. So if I can be changed with from within, with this source love that I can receive into my soul. That's kind of what I think of, and I've always thought of when I think about your practice,
Bill Frase 32:33
makes sense to me. That's pretty much what I do. It's different words to talk about the same thing.
Wendy Frase 32:34
Okay. Good. I just maybe need to do the habit practice. What are some of these others here? That's what I got to work on. But as you said, we can do this anywhere. You do this often, taking a walk, laying on your yoga mat, sitting in a car, sitting in a place of worship,
Bill Frase 33:00
recording a podcast.
Wendy Frase 33:02
Ooh, well, I'll have to think about that one.
Bill Frase 33:06
I'm doing it right now.
Wendy Frase 33:08
Oh oh. Okay. And you often say too driving, and that scares me a tad, but I guess I haven't gotten there yet.
Bill Frase 33:24
We were born to do this thing. We just don't know it, because we have been so indoctrinated in a paradigm of separation that we don't even realize that this is what we were born to do. We were meant to be one with source from the beginning. But again, our species on this planet made a different choice. We perpetuate that choice on a moment by moment basis as a species. And this practice is me inviting humanity to make a choice in the opposite direction, to move away from Separation from Source to union, unity, harmony with source.
Wendy Frase 33:58
So it's about reconnecting to source because we were connected, or as children, as infants, as babies, and that's another conversation. But we have grown up we talked about before we're grown up in this world
Bill Frase 34:12
Who we were before we incarnated was in a type of at-one-ment with source, when we come into this pseudo reality, we are assaulted, and that assault leads us to start to accept the separation paradigm as reality for ourselves, even though this deepest aspect of ourselves knows that we are meant to be one with source, we take on all these things that are the opposite of that.
Wendy Frase 34:39
And you always talk about the most important thing about a practice is to engage in it. You can start it anywhere and and often it does not progress in a linear fashion either. It sometimes weaves around. We're not going to get it perfect every time.
Bill Frase 34:59
Yeah. But the thing is, is that you know when you when you graph out a discipline. And people have these expectations. People think in lines, but life doesn't work in straight lines. So mathematically, it's not a straight line on the graph. It is an exponential curve, which, if you think about an exponential curve. They always they hug the zero line on a graph forever. It seems like, When will this thing ever take off? And then it starts to take off. It starts to go vertical. And that's how this practice works. You will wiggle around that zero line. You'll feel like you drop below it. You'll go slightly above it for a long time until, oh, this is okay. It's starting to take off now, but it's for most people that take off is going to take longer than they think. Because think about it, if you took, let's say, 25 years getting where you are, well, how much do you think you got to practice to reverse the trend that that you have established in the first 25 years of your life? I mean, I should expect it, even with the power like we're talking about this divine essence, I would expect it to take a number of years and that, and that also, by the way, aligns with my own personal experience. It's not just mathematics I'm talking about. This is my own perception of my own trajectory of progress.
Wendy Frase 36:21
It's not just sense in your mind, but soulful sense.
Bill Frase 36:25
Yeah, and it's possible that my soul's made even more progress than I am cognitively aware of.
Wendy Frase 36:32
Well, you have given us a lot to think about. So I think we really have covered your practice, and we invite listeners to give it a try. Certainly, there are lots of practices out there, and we're not going to agree or disagree with any of them. We are just inviting you to think about and to experience a new practice.
Bill Frase 37:01
It's all an invitation.
Wendy Frase 37:03
Thanks, Bill,
Bill Frase 37:04
Thanks Wendy,
Wendy Frase 37:05
Until next time.
Bill Frase 37:06
Until next time. Thank you so much for listening to wake up call for the soul with Bill and Wendy, we hope you'll join us next time.