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💥 Ignite your company culture with the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast!
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[00:00:00] Announcer: This is the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast, your source for the strategies, systems, and insights you need to turn your dreams into your destiny. Every week we dive into dynamic conversations as our host, Nicole Greer interviews, leadership, and business experts. They're here to shed light on practical solutions to the challenges of personal and professional development. Now here's your host, a professional speaker, coach, and consultant, Nicole Greer.
[00:00:29] Nicole: Welcome everybody to the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast. My name is Nicole Greer and they call me the Vibrant Coach. And again, I know you're not surprised. Another amazing person is on my podcast today. It is Todd Davis and he has put together, don't miss this, a whole new program around a classic, the classic Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by the man we all know, love and miss Stephen Covey. Let me tell you a little bit about Todd Davis. He is a senior leadership consultant and a Seven Habits content expert. He's got this thing, dog eared and marked up like you would not believe. And he's thought leader at FranklinCovey, like Stephen Covey (are you putting it together people?) with over 35 years of experience in human resources, talent development, and executive recruiting as a former Chief People Officer and Executive Vice President. That is a tongue twister, Todd Davis, Todd Davis was responsible for the global talent development in over 40 offices reaching 160 countries.
[00:01:31] Additionally, he authored and co authored the Wall Street Journal best selling books, Get Better, 15 Proven Practices to Build Effective Relationships at Work, and everyone deserves a great manager. And isn't that the truth? Okay. So welcome to the show, Todd. I'm so happy to have you here to talk about this awesome book and thanks for sending this in the mail to me. I've got one upstairs, so got two now. I'm all excited.
[00:01:53] Todd Davis: Well, it's great to be here. I love that we're getting connected here, so thank you for the invitation.
[00:01:58] Nicole: Yeah. Yeah. So I just have to know 40 offices in 160 countries. What's your, what's the most amazing place you've been and you wish you could get back there as soon as possible?
[00:02:08] Todd Davis: Wow. Uh, that's a loaded question. That's so I've been able to visit most of them and I would yeah, I don't know. We have a great office in Japan that is always a pleasure to be with or to be at. And I would probably say our Japan office. I mean, we have an office in UK, we have an office in Australia.
[00:02:28] They're all great places around the world that I'm fortunate enough to have been in, but I would probably say Japan.
[00:02:33] Nicole: Oh, I just want to go there so bad. I've watched all of the Anthony Bourdain's, all the feed fills, all the show, all of the shows. Yeah. It's on the list. It's on the list. All right. Very good. Well, first of all, you know, thanks for being here. And so tell me, you guys have put together a course on the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People.
[00:02:52] First of all, what drove you to do that? And you know, what, what is the big attraction? Why have people for so many years loved this book and this content?
[00:03:00] Todd Davis: Yeah, thanks for asking. So the book was first published in 1989. Dr. Stephen R. Covey who wrote the book so, you know 35 years old now and not too long after that he put together the first lecture series on the habits. And so we've had a course or a work session for decades on the seven habits. And about every eight to 10 years we update the course to be as relevant as it can be for our times.
[00:03:26] And so we just relaunched the newest reimagined, it's Seven Habits 5.0 version. And again, the habits have never changed. The principles have never changed, but the application certainly changes in our ever changing world. And so we have this newest version that we're launching out these last couple of months and I've been traveling the letting people know about it along with a couple of other consultants.
[00:03:48] Nicole: Oh, that's fantastic. All right. So my people that are my age, all of you over the 50 mark, you're like, I know that book. It's on the shelf. We've all got it on the shelf. And I actually have had the privilege of teaching probably the 3.0 series, I had to, had to think about it for a moment, I got certified to do that. And I actually really believe in this stuff, people. And I have a little coaching methodology that's called SHINE and the H in my acronym is HABITS. And I always talk about Stephen Covey's work. So let's go, let's go through that. Let's go through that. So the first thing in here is it talks about the first habit, which is _Be Proactive_. And this is part of the private victory kind of part of the model. If you look at it, will you talk a little bit about what it means to have private victory? And then our first little habit there?
[00:04:38] Todd Davis: You bet. The whole end in mind, if you will, for the seven habits is to help us all become more skilled with our interpersonal relationships and become interdependent. So the first, as you describe it, the private victory involves habits one, two, and three that help move us from being dependent to independent. And habit one, as you cited, is to be proactive. It's based on the principle of choice. We all have the choice to determine what to do with our lives. Now, I want to be careful not to not assume what everybody's been through and what challenges people are up against. But for me and for people who read the book, they realize that they can, as Stephen says, choose their response to any situation. So while there's so many things we can't control or even influence, we can always choose our response, and that is a very empowering concept. And so that's what we focus on in Habit One, being proactive, saying, well, okay, I can list all the things I can't do anything about, but what can I do? What can I influence? Where can I make a difference in my life and in the lives of those around me?
[00:05:38] Nicole: Yeah. And when I think about that idea, you know, in our world, all these stimuluses come in and then we have a hot second to respond to what's going to happen. And another book for all y'all. So you need to read this one, Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. But there's another book by Viktor Frankl Man's Search for Meaning. And it is also a classic that must be on your shelf. And I insist that you read that one too. But he says, that there's just that small place between stimulus and response. And gosh, if everybody could just, you know, hold on right there a second.
[00:06:12] Todd Davis: Stephen got a lot of his inspiration from that book and talks about the very thing you're mentioning, Nicole, that as human beings, we can, it doesn't happen automatically, we have to act on it, but we can separate stimulus from response, where we have the freedom to choose; to choose our response, to choose the most helpful and effective way to respond, and once we realize that and get better and better at it, well, then we can make those choices that help move our lives in the direction we want them to go in.
[00:06:41] Nicole: Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah. And, you know, that, that response thing, the stimulus, it can hijack our amygdala, which is the lizard brain, you know, back of our head. And it's like, Oh, get ahold of the lizard and move to the prefrontal cortex. That's what we're trying to do here. And I love how Stephen Covey talks about it in page 79. He says we have the freedom to choose four things. We can be self aware, we can use our imagination, we can tap into our conscience, and we can use our independent will to choose a way forward.
[00:07:12] Todd Davis: Yeah, different than animals, we have those four gifts as human beings, exactly as you labeled them. And it's really, again, when we stop and think about it, it is so empowering. And it is, uh, it really gives us the inspiration to take charge of our lives instead of allowing outside people or circumstances to determine the course of our day or our week or our life.
[00:07:35] Nicole: That's right, that's right. And really, our life to your point earlier, is like the, the amalgamation, the creation of all of our little choices along the way. You know, when they put you in a box or a jar, they're going to be like, Oh, these were the choices she made. You know, everybody will be talking about it! Promise. Yeah. Okay. So the other thing I really like is in this idea of being proactive is the proactive focus. And so I, I was reading my email earlier today, and this gal had a little signature, Todd, and it said something like, you know, you happen to the world, the world doesn't have to happen to you. But, you know, Covey said that back in 1989. And he talks about this concept of a circle of influence. Can you tie together for us proactive and circle of influence?
[00:08:21] Todd Davis: You bet. Yeah, in habit one in the course, we talk about three practices or behaviors that we can all start to implement in our lives. And the first you've talked about separating stimulus from response, pausing before we respond. The second is to work within our circle of influence versus our circle of concern.
[00:08:38] So if you picture these two circles, the outer circle, our circle of concern, everything that we have every right to be concerned about. But if we spend all our time there, not looking at what we can do about things, We actually shrink our circle of influence, but highly effective people recognize this. And while they're concerned about things, they say, okay, well, what can we do about that? Maybe I can't fix it. Maybe I can't change this policy or this program or whatever, but what can I model? What can I start doing to influence things in the way that I think that would be helpful for the team or the company or the family or the organization. So working within your circle of influence versus Spending all your time in your circle of concern.
[00:09:18] Nicole: Yeah, I love that. And you know, just an aside I'm going through this coaching program with uh, Shirzad Chamine and his book is called Positive Intelligence. And right now we're talking about, you have a concern, you have a worry. And the first thing you can do is you, you can decide, can I just accept that this exists in the world and know that I really don't have any power? Except if something comes in my world directly where I can impact it, or can I take action? You know, like some things you have to concede, you know, like that, that's something I can't fix. I should put my energy somewhere I can. So I think all of these guys are on the right track. And you said there was a third thing. Did I miss it?
[00:09:59] Todd Davis: The third, yeah, the third practice that we teach in the updated course is using proactive language. And some people will hear that and say, Oh, okay, well, if we just talk nice about things, everything will be fine. Not saying that at all. What science has shown and research has shown over and over again is that the words we use, the language we use actually opens up the creative portion of our brain and shuts down the, you know, the less helpful parts of the brain.
[00:10:23] And and so the language we use in fact, in the new course, we do this really great exercise where people take a challenging situation and they have to write in the sentence. I may not be able to fill in the blank, but I can fill in the blank. And so maybe I'm in a role at work that I'm, it's kind of stagnant and the company's not going to change the role, but I'm kind of bored with it. So I may not be able to change my role. But I can look in other areas of the company to see what interests me. So it's just realizing that we have a choice in things. So they all work together, circle of influence and being proactive. And then the very language we use, using proactive language.
[00:10:57] Nicole: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Hey, it's semantics. Words count. They totally
[00:11:01] Todd Davis: That's right.
[00:11:01] Nicole: Okay. All right. All right. So that's habit number one. So let's go to habit number two, which he snuck in on us already. Rewind. He said, let's begin with the end in mind. See how, see how good Todd is. He knows what he's talking about.
[00:11:14] All right. So the second habit, again, this is part of your private victory. This is like, you're kind of getting your own self together. Right? So _Begin with the End in Mind,_ principles of personal leadership. Will you talk a little bit about that?
[00:11:28] Todd Davis: You bet. So begin with the end in mind, habit two, is all based on the principle of purpose. So if in habit one, I've decided, Hey, this is my life. I'm not going to give it up to somebody else. I'm going to determine the course of my life, well then habit two is, what am I going to do with my life? I like to think of it with habit one, I'm the captain of my ship. Well, habit two, I got to chart my course. I got to decide where is it that I'm going to go and take this wonderful, precious life that I have. So that's the principle behind habit two. And then the practices, there are two practices that we teach in habit two. And the first is to envision outcomes before you act. You know, everything has a blueprint, every building, every tangible thing we can hold our hands, everything has been created at least twice. And so why not make sure we do that for our lives too? So we have this visualization that we do before we start to march down the road with our lives.
[00:12:20] And then the second practice is to, and we do this in the course, we help people draft and create what we call a personal mission statement or a personal constitution. You know, what is it that I'm all about? What matters most to me? What are my deepestly held values?
[00:12:35] Nicole: Yeah. And I will tell you a personal mission statement. People be like, you know, my company's got that thing hanging on the wall. We don't even do that thing on the wall. You know, why should I, why should I have one for myself? And I really think it's a matter of integration and then you start to have integrity in your life.
[00:12:52] Todd Davis: Well, it's such a good point you bring up Nicole, and I ask clients around the world, the participants, I say, now, why do you think companies around the world pay thousands of dollars to bring in the seven habits? And yet we spend this good couple of hours in the work session on helping you create your personal mission statement.
[00:13:06] Why would they do that? And why they would do that is because in this world, when we address employees not as employees, but as partners, as whole people, and recognize that they're not just the project leader that we hire. They are a whole person with a family or with friends or with this whole outside life. And so as we help people become more centered in who they really are at their core, they're better in every part of their life, including their role at work.
[00:13:33] Nicole: Yeah, that's exactly right. And I think the thing about the mission statement is you're going to take a look at like how your core values show up in your work. You know, what kind of talents and skills, what issues you want to address in the world. And, you know, people sit around, Todd, I don't know if they sit around where you live, but sit around in places I live and people are like, the world is going to heck in a hand basket, you know, that's kind of what my daddy would say. And it's like, I know because. People need to be on mission.
[00:14:01] Todd Davis: Yeah, yeah. We have to decide what are we going to be about? What is our life going to be about? What difference are we going to make regardless of what our title in life is?
[00:14:10] Nicole: That's exactly right. That's exactly right. Okay. So that is the second habit, begin with the end in mind. And then of course, you know, that little phrase goes with so many things. It's like 2025, it's just right, right here. And so it's like, what are we going to do in 2025? Some people are haven't sat down and got that figured out. So let's definitely do that. All right. Third habit is putting first things first and don't miss this everybody: that's a different book too. There's a whole book. Right? Okay.
[00:14:38] Todd Davis: It's one of the most, yeah, one of the most difficult habits and so there's a whole different book and an additional course on this as well.
[00:14:44] Nicole: Oh, fantastic. Yeah. All right. So again, this is part of our private victory. We have to be personally proactive. We have to begin with the end in mind and then we have to put first things first. So this is a little bit about managing yourself. Okay?
[00:14:57] Todd Davis: It's the principle. It's based on the principle of focus and execution. And so again, back to my little analogy, if in Habit 1 I've decided that I'm the captain of my ship, and in Habit 2 I've charted my course, well, Habit 3, I got to set sail. I got to do something. I got to take action where the rubber meets the road. And so with everything that we all have on our plates, all good things. How do I prioritize? How do I make sure that I'm putting, as the habit says, first things first. And so in this habit, in the work session, in the book, we talk about first of all, I learn where do I spend my time? A lot of people think, "Well, if I had just another hour in the day, if I had more time," and I understand that, but that's like saying, "Well, I've got this garage that's all filled up with all this stuff. I just need another garage so I can fill it with more clutter, too," versus "No, let me take the garage I've got and let me organize it and decide what are the most important things?" And that's where I learned to spend my time and do that effectively.
[00:15:50] Nicole: Yeah, and what you're saying about the garage is so true about so many people's roles at work, too. You know, they're doing all these things and, like, are you supposed to be doing all that stuff? Maybe that was two leaders ago told you to do that. You shouldn't be doing that. You got to pull it out all out on the lawn and figure out what stays and what, what goes. That's so good
[00:16:09] Todd Davis: Yeah, so Habit 3, planning just what you're talking about planning is a huge part of that. In fact, I had the great pleasure of working with Dr. Covey for many years before he passed away. He passed away about 12 years ago, and I've been with the organization for 29 years and we were doing a filming one time with him and in between takes, someone in the group asked him, "Dr. Covey, if you could only remember one thing out of the seven habits to make you the most effective, what would it be?" And I remember him joking, saying, "Well, no, you've got to do it all." But then when we pushed him on it, he said it would be this: "Plan each week before the week begins." It was that simple and that profound and that's in Habit 3. It's to say wait a minute. Instead of putting off and "I'll get to this next month or next year, whatever," plan each week. Every Sunday night, I sit down and I map out, it takes me a half hour, I look through the week, and I decide what are my most important roles, or I reflect on my most important roles and my mission, and then I make sure that I'm putting in pieces during the week that really help me make progress on those things that are most important to me.
[00:17:05] Nicole: Yeah. And, and then you don't dread Monday.
[00:17:09] Todd Davis: I think that's a good point.
[00:17:11] Nicole: Cause you know, I think most people dread Monday because they're like, Oh my gosh, what is this week going to be like? I hope it's not like last week. You know, they're all in the past about things, but like if you sat yourself in a chair, like Todd Davis, the gentleman who's put this new course out into the world, 5.0 of Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, people! You'd be like, this is going to be a great week! I'm going to get these things done! You know, proactive.
[00:17:34] Todd Davis: It is. It is a lot more exciting to start the week off when you have that. And I want to be careful in one thing. You're very kind to say that Todd Davis put this thing out in the world. We have a wonderful innovation team that develop all the content. I just get to be one of the several consultants who gets to go out and talk to people like you about this and your listeners about this. So I want to make sure I'm giving them credit because I just get the blessing of being the representative.
[00:17:59] Nicole: Oh, that's so good. Well, I didn't know that you worked with Stephen Covey for 12 years. What was that like? Let's just take a little pause.
[00:18:06] Todd Davis: He passed away 12 years ago. I started with what was then called the Covey Leadership Center 29 years ago, and he was the founder, and his son, Stephen M. R. Covey, was the president, so I worked directly with both of them for many years, and then we merged with Franklin Quest, which was the, you know, Franklin Day Planner time management company. And then Steven remained one of our two co-chairmans of the board until about 12 years ago when he passed away. But it was wonderful. The man, again, nobody's perfect. And he was someone who always said he never perfected himself in any of the habits, but boy, was he a powerful model of these things that we're talking about. Very powerful model.
[00:18:42] Nicole: Yeah. Yeah. And there's a video on YouTube, everybody. We'll maybe put it in the show notes of- I don't know what year it is. It's like eighties, nineties. And he's on stage with a lady and she's got her jug and she's got her rocks and
[00:18:55] Todd Davis: Elizabeth and the big rocks.
[00:18:57] Nicole: Oh my gosh. Okay. Everybody go look for that video, Elizabeth and big rocks. And first of all, you'll just love it because you'll see his personality, but like just that little exercise is so...
[00:19:09] Todd Davis: So powerful
[00:19:09] Nicole: So good. Yeah. Cause it's like, no kidding. That's how I do things
[00:19:12] Todd Davis: Yeah, I actually, so that was a spontaneous situation. He called her up out of the audience. They had planned on him choosing someone else who they had kind of prepped a little bit, but Steven thinks his own way. So he called Elizabeth up and it was so spontaneous and so beautiful. And I actually got to meet her a few years ago. She came into town and came to the corporate offices. And of course, when that video was in play, or first made, she didn't have any children then or anything. She now has three children and it was really fun to reconnect with her.
[00:19:39] Nicole: Oh, that's so fantastic. All right. We'll put that in the show notes because you need to see that little video. That's fantastic. And you know, all these years I've been doing training and consulting, Todd, everybody's used that. I'm like, Oh, that's Covey's thing. That's Covey's thing.
[00:19:52] Todd Davis: Big rock.
[00:19:53] Nicole: That's right. The big rocks. Yeah. And then the other little time management thing, I don't want to skip over. It's on page 160, 161 and 162, 163. Is the time management matrix. I think that is so powerful for people. Will you talk a little bit about that?
[00:20:09] Todd Davis: You bet. So this goes back to the garage. Instead of getting a second garage, look in your garage, your first garage, and decide where am I spending my time? So the time matrix is made up of four quadrants. There's two continuums. The first continuum is those things that aren't urgent and those things that are urgent. If you can picture an arrow going from less urgent to more urgent, and then the other continuum is less important to more important. And so it forms these four quadrants. And quadrant one ends up being those things that are urgent and important. These are crises, these are things we have to take care of. We call that the quadrant of necessity. Quadrant three. Dropping down if you're picturing these four boxes, quadrant three are those things that are not important or less important, but they're urgent.
[00:20:53] And this is the real time robber quadrant because they're urgent, we think they're important. And we've convinced ourselves we have to act on them because they're urgent. Quadrant three is the quadrant of deception.
[00:21:02] If you move over to quadrant four, those are things that are not urgent and not important. We call that the quadrant of waste. And most of us think, well, I would never be there. But how many of us sit down on the couch and think, I'm going to watch 30 minutes of a _Friends_ rerun and all of a sudden four hours later, and I've gone through a bag of Hi Chews and I've just vegged out on the couch.
[00:21:21] And so anything to excess is the quadrant of waste. Now we all need relaxation. We all need to recharge ourselves. But that doesn't have to be a quadrant four, quadrant of waste. That's the last quadrant I'm saving, quadrant two. Things that are not urgent, but they're important. This is the quadrant we want to get more into our lives, where we have to act on it. We have to be proactive to move ourselves into quadrant two, including, "Gosh, I've got to recharge. I'm going to sit down, but not for four hours. I'm going to sit down and take a half hour and watch a fun show that I can laugh at and then recharge my batteries." And so quadrant two is the quadrant of preparation and really the quadrant of effectiveness. It's where we build meaningful relationships. It's where we work on things before they're due. It's planning, preparation, all of those things. So that's the time matrix. And that's what makes people so much more effective when they recognize where they're spending their time versus where they could be spending their time.
[00:22:16] Nicole: Mm hmm. Yeah. And just taking yourself through that exercise to see, like, just go back in your calendar, see what you did last week, see where all your stuff lands. Yeah. I think it's really good. So, like, if you want to write the book, you know, you want to find the love of your life, but you're never, you know, going out to meet people or whatever. I mean, that's your quadrant four stuff, right? So it could be anything.
[00:22:38] Announcer: Are you ready to build your vibrant culture? Bring Nicole Greer to speak to your leadership team, conference, or organization to help them with their strategies, systems, and smarts to increase clarity, accountability, energy, and results. Your organization will get lit from within. Email her at Nicole at VibrantCulture. com. And be sure to check out Nicole's TEDxTalk at VibrantCulture. com
[00:23:04] Nicole: And the thing I love too, Todd, don't you, is like, this is very businessy, but just do this in your life. Just in your life life.
[00:23:11] Todd Davis: It impacts every part of your life. Now don't get me wrong, Nicole, I've got a long ways to go, but I think about who I was as a partner or a spouse as a father, as a friend, as a neighbor 29 years ago, when I started with the Covey Leadership Center and who I am today. And again, I've got a long ways to go,
[00:23:29] Nicole: Yeah, we all do
[00:23:29] Todd Davis: It impacts, it impacts every part of your life for the good.
[00:23:33] Nicole: Yeah, I agree. Okay. So again, the model has the first three habits where it's your private victory. Like you got to work on yourself first. First one was be proactive. Habit one. Begin with the end in mind. Habit two. Habit three. Put first things first. But now we're going to move into our public victory. So now we're out in front of people and we're interacting with folks and this is- If we could get the Middle East to do this. Habit 4: Think Win Win. We could have a whole new world.
[00:24:01] Todd Davis: Really good point.
[00:24:02] Nicole: Yeah. So talk about that.
[00:24:04] Todd Davis: Okay, those first three habits, as you said, surround the private victory, and this is where we become trustworthy. Because we do what we say we're going to do. We take charge of our lives. It's how we become trustworthy, and it moves us from being dependent to independent. And then these next four habits starting with habit four move us from being Independent to interdependent.
[00:24:23] So _Habit 4: Think Win Win_ is based on the principle of abundance and it's focusing on not just what's a win for me, but gosh, what's a win for Nicole? How can we all win together? To some people who end up being doormats, not just what's a win for the other person, but what's a win for me. Sometimes we have to remind ourselves, Hey, you're in this too. We've got to make sure that everybody's winning together. So that's habit four. And it's based on this abundance mindset. People sometimes treat relationships almost like a buffet with a scarcity mentality of: my favorite dessert's going, I gotta hurry and get my dessert before it's all gone. And that's true in a buffet, but it's not true in relationships. It's not true in life. There is more than enough recognition and credit and everything else to go around if we have this abundant mindset.
[00:25:08] Nicole: Hmm. That's exactly right. Yeah. And I love how on page 217 it says there's win win, which is what we're after. And then there's the obvious win lose. And then there might be the not so obvious lose win, which is what he just said. I might just give in, let the other person have it. I think I have to give up. Then there's lose lose, which I think is a real problem. And, and then
[00:25:30] Todd Davis: If I'm going down you're going down
[00:25:31] Nicole: That's right. Now, I, I hadn't heard this one and I guess I read it a long time ago, but if I forgot about it, but it was: Win.
[00:25:41] Todd Davis: Yeah, so it's there's actually six paradigms of human interaction. You've named the four, and then the fifth one is win. And win is just like, hey, I'm kind of about me. I don't care if you win or lose, it's just all about me. And then the highest form, what Stephen calls out the highest form of human interaction is win win or no deal. And I love that, because what he's saying, what we're saying is, look, go for win win. But let's agree that in our process, as we're going for win win, if all of a sudden I'm starting to have to sacrifice too much or you're starting to have to sacrifice too much, that's not what we were going for. We're going for win win. So win win or no deal. And I realized that, especially in business, there are certain situations where you can't just walk away. But I love the mindset of saying, hey, let's make sure that in our efforts to go for win win, if one of us is having to compromise too much, let's recalibrate. Let's step back and make sure it continues to be a win for both of us.
[00:26:33] Nicole: Yeah. Yeah. And that kind of made me think of another book by Covey. So that book is The Third Way? Isn't
[00:26:40] Todd Davis: _The Third Alternative_, the third
[00:26:42] Nicole: Okay. Okay. Help me. Help me, Todd. See people, this is why the expert's here. Okay, so talk about that book for just a second,
[00:26:48] Todd Davis: okay.
[00:26:49] Nicole: It's a cool, cool read. I'm gonna pull that one out, too.
[00:26:52] Todd Davis: Yeah, well, as we go through these three habits. So habit four, as you said, is think win win. It's based on the principle of abundance. And so I'm going to get to your question. So then habit five, if I want to make sure that we're in a win win relationship, I've got to find out what's important to Nicole.
[00:27:05] So habit five is the skill. Seek first to understand, then to be understood. And that's based on the principle of respect. And so we take time to understand each other. We have this attitude of win win, then the payoff is habit six and that's synergy, based on the principle of creative collaboration, and that's where I It's not your way or my way. It's a better way or a higher way. We call that a third alternative. So it's something that we both put our egos at the door and we say, let's work together. We don't care whose idea wins. We just want it to be the very best idea. And that's what the third alternative is all about.
[00:27:41] Nicole: Mm. I love that. Yeah, get that one everybody. I will put it in the show notes. Okay, the third alternative So you'll have to read, you have to get the whole suite of books. That's what you'll have to do. Okay, and then I'll just throw this one out there because this one also is part of this seek first to understand, then to be understood. There's _The Speed of Trust_. Isn't that by Covey's son?
[00:28:01] Todd Davis: Stephen M. R. Covey. Yes. He was the president. He was the president that hired me at Covey Leadership Center. We're still good friends. And he followed in his father's footsteps. He is the foremost authority on building trust in organizations. He's amazing. And he wrote the New York times bestselling book, the speed of trust. It's an excellent book.
[00:28:18] Nicole: Yeah. So don't miss that everybody. Okay. So back to, we're on, on our habit seek first, understand then to be understood, you know? So this one I think is, is, is about respect, but it, but also prompts the idea of communication.
[00:28:31] Todd Davis: Empathy and communication. That's right. Yeah. People ask me often for a leader because I've been, I've coached many leaders for a long time and I've been in leadership roles. What are the most important habits? And like Dr. Covey, I would say, well, they're all important, but if I had to pick two, it would be habits one and habit five.
[00:28:46] Habit one, first be proactive, realize that you have the choice, you have the influence, and then habit five, seek first to understand, then to be understood. Because in this habit, it's not agreeing with other people or disagreeing, but it's really as best as anybody can do putting yourself in the place of other people. I mean you think about our world, you think about our nation here in the U.S. Think about the Mideast, everywhere. If we could just stop and take time to understand the other person, fully appreciate where they're coming from. Again we don't have to agree with them. But boy, can we move mountains if we take time to understand each other. Dr. Covey talks about, we talk about how easy it is to listen with the intent to reply. We do it all the time. You know, we're not talking over someone, we're nodding and we're smiling, but we're already formulating what we're going to say instead of shutting that down and just listening with the intent to understand. So that's what habit five is all about.
[00:29:40] Nicole: Yeah. And you miss so much. You miss so much. You don't learn as much as you could. You don't broaden your ways of thinking. Yeah. I'm with you. One and five.
[00:29:51] Todd Davis: And you really have to be deliberate about it because I think listening with the intent to reply-- while it's not helpful when the deepest need is to be understood, it comes from a good place. We're all fixers. We all want to help and so you and I are talking and you're telling me about a problem and I'm thinking in my mind, oh, I know how to solve that. I know how to fix that. And i'm already putting together the solution. So that comes from a good place, but it's not helpful, because while I'm doing that in my brain, I'm missing out, like you just said, I'm missing out on everything that you're saying. So just suspend, and that's what Dr. Covey, the word he used, and I love it. Suspend your thoughts, your feelings, long enough to really hear the other person.
[00:30:25] Nicole: Yeah. That's so good. All right. So seek first to understand, then to be understood. Habit number five. We've got that one. This is part of, on the model, your public victory. And so now we have put ourselves in a position where we've got principles of interpersonal leadership, principles of empathic communication, and now we're going to synergize. Habit six. Talk about that.
[00:30:46] Todd Davis: So synergize, like I said, that's the payoff of these other habits because we've become trustworthy in the private victory, and now we're building trust with others. We have a win win mindset. We've taken the time to understand each other. Now we can start to creatively collaborate, synergize. We may not always get to synergy, which is a third alternative, but we can always synergize. If we're both willing to, like I said, check our egos and start getting ideas out on the table and be more focused on the end result instead of who wins or whose idea gets used, then we can synergize.
[00:31:19] And again, based on the principle of creative collaboration, this is where new ideas and relationships flourish and companies grow and you know, succeed and do more than they ever thought possible. That's habit six. And those three habits surround the public victory.
[00:31:34] Nicole: Yeah. And I was looking at the synergize because you know, that's what I try to do all day long with teams, you know, when I'm out there doing team building and leading leadership teams and the application suggestions for this chapter are so good. They say, number one, think about a person who typically sees things differently than you.
[00:31:52] And I don't think you ever slow down to do that. You're just irritated by these people who think differently than you. It was like, oh, him? I don't like him. You know?
[00:32:02] Todd Davis: Now, you know, it's funny in the course, we tell people, because it's all based on valuing differences and the point you're making. And so we ask people, we say- I just did this yesterday, I was teaching the course- think about someone who frustrates you, who really challenges you. You just, you know, you'd rather not work with them. And I want you to list all the reasons why they frustrate you. So people do that. And then you say, now, I want you thinking about the same person to list all of their strengths and their talents. And this one guy said to me, Oh, this will be a really short list. He was making
[00:32:31] Nicole: no, I want you to think.
[00:32:32] Todd Davis: Yeah. He was making the point like you just did that we don't often think about that. And we're not saying, Oh, we'll just think about the good things and everything will be fine. But it is emphasizing the fact that sometimes we get these paradigms and these mindsets around people or things and we forget that, Oh, no, wait a minute. Just because somebody thinks differently than I do doesn't mean that they're wrong. It can really help us generate something far better if we value those differences and bring them onto the table.
[00:32:57] Nicole: Yeah. I'm just sitting here thinking about my own marriage! I mean, seriously, because, you know, many, many times early on, when we were, and we've been married, Todd, a long time, 34 years.
[00:33:08] Todd Davis: Congratulations
[00:33:09] Nicole: it's a miracle. And so, and he, so he would say things to me and I'd be like, that's so irritating. But then the older you get, you're like, Oh, he's not doing that because he's, mean spirited or something, it's because that's his strength is to question and to be skeptical and to make sure I know exactly what I'm talking about. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so it's like, no. And so now when I have an idea, I'm like, what do you think of this? Poke a hole in this theory, you know, and he'll poke all the holes, you know, and I'm like, and that tells you right where to go back and build a little more. So I love that. And then the other thing it says in here, this is the fourth suggestion- I just think these are so important, because what gets teams sideways is conflict. Let's just be honest.
[00:33:51] Todd Davis: Yeah, for sure.
[00:33:52] Nicole: And so it says next time you have a disagreement or confrontation with somebody, attempt to understand their concerns that are underlying this person's position. Maybe ask them some powerful questions. Address those concerns in a creative and mutually beneficial way instead of getting mad. It doesn't say that part right there, but I'm just adding that my, for myself
[00:34:12] Todd Davis: You added that.
[00:34:14] Nicole: But I think that that's so true. It's like we're so stuck in the conflict. You got to step back. Gotta take a look at things.
[00:34:20] Todd Davis: Yeah, yeah.
[00:34:21] Nicole: All right. And so now here is just the best advice for everybody in our frenetic 21st century world. Let's go to habit seven, which is _Sharpen the Saw_. Okay, listen up everybody. Get your pencil.
[00:34:36] Todd Davis: So as you have helped us walk through these first six habits, if you can visualize them, they're in kind of a triangle format because the first three are surrounding the private victory, the next three are surrounding the public victory, and then surrounding all six of these habits is habit number seven, sharpen the saw. This is based on the principle of renewal.
[00:34:55] And it stems from the, I don't know if it's a nursery rhyme or a metaphor, but there's a lumberjack out cutting down trees in the woods And they've got to get these cut down before sundown and another Person comes along and says hey, you seem like you're in a big hurry. He goes, oh, yeah, the sun's going down I got 10 more trees to cut down. And the new gentleman says well, why don't we pause for a minute and sharpen the blades on your saw. And the first one says no, I don't have time, I got to get this done. And while it sounds foolish as we think about that story... well, of course you would want to sharpen the saw! How many of us are going 90 miles an hour in our lives and our careers, and we would be much more effective if we would each week, each day, take time to sharpen the saw. So habit seven is about renewal in four areas of our lives: the body, the mind, the heart and the spirit.
[00:35:41] And it's not like we have to take on this, Oh, I got to do something like in each of these areas every day. No, it's recognizing where do I want to, where do I need to get better and maybe have more energy and more resource. I think of it as the instructions that the flight attendant gives you when the plane's taking off and they talk about if cabin pressure drops that these masks will come down from the ceiling and you're to put your mask on first. And I'll bet, Nicole, when I first heard that, I'll bet, I thought, well, no, my mom told me you'd take care of other people. I put it on their mask first. But the principle of sharpen the saw is you put your mask on first, not because you're selfish, but because it empowers you, enables you to do so much more for everyone else. And so renewing yourself on a regular basis, both, you know, our physical, the body, the mind, the heart, and the spirit are critical to being highly effective.
[00:36:27] Nicole: That's right. That's right. And so many people, burnout, mental illness, mental wellbeing, all this stuff we're hearing everywhere. You know, COVID is gone, but it, but it's still lurking around literally and figuratively
[00:36:41] Todd Davis: Yes, it's right now.
[00:36:42] Nicole: Literally and figuratively people. And so I love what you said. It's four places. It's your body, the physical wellbeing, you've got to exercise, you got to take a vitamin. Can you work that into your schedule? Work on your stress management, then mental
[00:36:55] Todd Davis: Yeah, the mind. I've seen people, I've seen people in my career, really good people get passed over for opportunities because they haven't been staying current, investing in themselves, in the mind, you know, staying relevant with this ever changing technology and everything else. So invest in the body, invest in the mind. Invest in the heart, our relationships. I mean, I'm sure we've all seen that where people are not taking the time to make sure that they're making deposits in the emotional bank account, as Stephen calls it, making deposits in the emotional bank account of those people who are most important to us.
[00:37:25] And then the spirit and spirit means a lot of different things to different people, but whatever inspires you, whatever is at your core, your soul, making sure you're rejuvenating and renewing in that area as well.
[00:37:35] Nicole: Yeah, that's so important. And don't forget what we were talking about back on the private victory. The part about making sure that you plan your week before it ends, you know where, where are you going to read the the journal in your industry, and where are you going to go on a date night with your husband or whatever. Those are the things that, if you incorporate this full circle, you'll see how it all comes together. Yeah. So I'll tell you my favorite renewal thing is walking the dog.
[00:38:04] Todd Davis: It is, isn't it cathartic?
[00:38:06] Nicole: I, if I go get a good dog walk in, man, everything's better.
[00:38:10] Todd Davis: No, and the dog loves it too. You're helping them renew as well.
[00:38:13] Nicole: That's exactly right, and reading a good book. Absolutely. All right, so the final thing in here is I just want to talk about the upward spiral, because I had forgotten about that. It's on page 318, and he talks about, we learn, we commit, we do, we learn, we commit, we do, we learn, commit, we do. Because people are like, I'm on a downward spiral, you know, you got to flip it the other way. So this is definitely part of sharpen your saw. Will you talk a little bit about the upward spiral? How can I get my spiral going up?
[00:38:44] Todd Davis: Yeah, it's just all about how we develop habits. You and I have just talked through them and given your listeners a, If they haven't read the 7 Habits, the Reader's Digest condensed version of the 7 Habits. So we learn that, then we decide, Habit 1, we decide we're going to do something. We make a commitment, we're going to do that. And then we actually put it into practice. And we don't change overnight. But in that process of learn, commit, do, we start to make changes. And if we stick with it, And I've seen it. I've seen it in the people I've coached. I've seen it myself. I've seen it in the people I've worked side by side with. You absolutely can learn this and you can actually, no matter what your age, you can actually improve.
[00:39:21] That's towards the end of the book. Something we skipped over at the first of the book that I should have brought up is what we call the see, do, get model. For each of the habits, for each of the habits, we look at our paradigms because our paradigms drive everything, right? And the way we see things influences everything we do, our behaviors. And then of course we know our behaviors give us the results we get. But what I have to remind myself, and I teach this all the time, but yet I still have to step back and say, Todd, are you seeing this accurately? Are you seeing this completely? Is your paradigm of this person or this situation still true? Maybe it was true 10 years ago, but have you held on? Yeah. Have you held on to a paradigm that's no longer serving you well? So it's really important. We look at each of the habits you just talked about, or we've just talked about, Nicole, through an inaccurate or an incomplete paradigm, and then a more effective paradigm.
[00:40:10] Nicole: So good. This little thing is just so stinking good. All right. So,
[00:40:15] Todd Davis: It has sold 40 million copies.
[00:40:18] Nicole: Well, that ya something!
[00:40:20] Todd Davis: And I had a woman, I was in a hotel last week, we were setting up in the conference room, and she was a worker there, and she said, "You're with FranklinCovey?" She says, "I'll be right back." And she left. I thought, oh no, did we not pay our bill or what's going on?
[00:40:31] And she came back and I wish I had the picture here. She was holding up her, in Spanish, her version of the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. And it had been all tattered and worn. She told me for five minutes how this book had just changed her life and she used it to raise her kids and how great, and it just spoke to me how these principles and these habits, they are as relevant as ever. They are so needed. And, you know, they'll be, they'll be needed a thousand years from now because they're principles.
[00:40:57] Nicole: That's right. That's right. And so, so let's talk about that for one hot second, a principle. So I think too, that, you know, how are you going to lead your life? You got to believe in something. In fact I have this little diagram I use all the time when I coach and I train and it's, I call it You 101. And one of my circles is what do you believe? And it almost floors people cause they're like, what do you mean? And I'm like, I mean, what do you believe in? What do you think is true? And like principles are truths that you put into play. You know what I mean? Like, I believe a win win is good. I believe to seek to first understand then to be understood. I believe that's the way to live. So it's, it's got a little connection to beliefs. And I think we've got to figure out what the heck we believe.
[00:41:42] Todd Davis: Yeah, that's very true. What is true for us? And if we base it on principles, then we can ignore them, but they're still going to be there. They're still going to be true. Principles are true whether you believe them or not.
[00:41:52] Nicole: That's exactly right. And so, you know, when you're exposed to stuff like this, the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey and could be a program that comes to your organization and you could have the amazing Todd Davis show up on your front door. That would be fantastic in your life.
[00:42:08] Todd Davis: I don't know. I don't know how amazing he is, but we'd have a lot of fun.
[00:42:11] Nicole: Okay. All right. Well, that's all that matters really. Okay, so tell us how we can find you. Tell us how we can get this program. Tell us, tell us, tell us.
[00:42:18] Todd Davis: Very simple, actually. If you go to FranklinCovey's website, which is simply www.franklincovey, that's c-o-v as in victor- ey.com, there's a search engine there and you can look up anything you want. Programs in my area, more about Todd Davis, more about any of our amazing consultants that we have. Anything and everything that your listeners would like can find it there at franklincovey.com
[00:42:41] Nicole: Okay, and are you hanging out over on the LinkedIn? Can they find you over there?
[00:42:45] Todd Davis: And Yep. Yeah, and I'm on LinkedIn. Just under my name. If they put in or if you put in on LinkedIn, if you search Todd Davis, FranklinCovey, it'll pop up.
[00:42:53] Nicole: Okay, fantastic. All right, and don't forget Todd's got two books you also need. Maybe, maybe you should come back and we should talk about one of your books. I'm serious!
[00:43:02] Todd Davis: I'd love it.
[00:43:02] Nicole: Okay, 'cause I'm really curious about _Everyone Deserves a Great Manager_, because you know, Society for Human Resource Management, survey goes out every year: why did you quit? My manager.
[00:43:14] Todd Davis: My manager. Yeah. People leave their leaders. They don't leave their company. They leave their leaders.
[00:43:18] Nicole: That's exactly right. Okay, so let's play that party game like summer time. You want to do that, Todd? You want to come back and have another show? Okay. All right, everybody. It's been another beautiful, amazing, vibrant episode of the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast. Todd Davis, I'm grateful for you, your time, your energy, and your genius. Thanks for being here.
[00:43:37] Todd Davis: Thank you, Nicole. I appreciate it.
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