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S6 EP1 | With the likelihood of a fourth a final Chris Pine led Stark Trek becoming slimmer and slimmer, the studio demands a blow-out exit for the Kelvin Timeline, taking the Enterprise where no one has gone before. Fatherhood, Klingons, and Picard... oh my.
Two screenwriters attempt to recreate, reimagine, or flat out fix, existing film franchises when 'the studio' demands...MORE FILMS! It's an exercise in creative thinking where they will challenge themselves to conceptualize, pitch, and craft a film based on the stipulations of a hypothetical Hollywood overlord. | Sixfive Media
Hello, and welcome to the studio demands that an exercise in creative thinking where we will conceptualize, pitch, and craft a film or series based on the demands of one of you listeners acting as a hypothetical Hollywood overlord. Overlord. As professional screenwriters ourselves and massive cinephiles, we talk movies all the time.
Jim:All the time.
T.C.:And we'd like to believe that we could meet any demands thrown at us. Welcome, everyone. I am fuck. No. No.
T.C.:You you know. No. I I just did. You're doing well. No.
T.C.:You did you were right there. I was right there. I, What's what's your name? TC. Oh, we will damn it.
T.C.:You're so good. It was yours. It
Jim:was right there. I had
T.C.:the most You're doing great. You did. And roll it. We will be your screenwriters for this episode as oh my god. My screen is all screwed up because I still have it set for the end of season 5.
T.C.:So I'm seeing we will be your screenwriters for this episode. I am TCD Wade, and joining me as always is Jim, season 6 Berzalek. Hello, Jim. Hello. Oh my my god.
T.C.:I had the My
Jim:middle name finally makes sense.
T.C.:It's we've waited Jim, we've been doing this for this is our 6th year doing the show.
Jim:That's weird.
T.C.:Yeah. But I knew we had to get this far with a name like that.
Jim:With c with season 6 is my middle name. Yeah. It had
T.C.:to get there. Yeah. I have the whole script. Not the script, but just my notes my intro notes for the last episode we did, which is the end of season 5. And I didn't change it for today.
T.C.:I I did change it to say January 2025 opening, but I did not edit anything else. So it's a that's a trip me up there. So hello, everyone. I'm TC, and this is Jim. And and we are back for another season of the show.
T.C.:I a great time was had by all. I wanna Blade's doing great right now.
Jim:Good.
T.C.:And
Jim:I don't I don't I don't I'm not on Internet.
T.C.:You're not on then who's monitoring the Discord?
Jim:It's a it's a ship sailing itself. Oh my god.
T.C.:It's the Demeter, and it's just rolling into the harbor and it's gonna Yeah. That makes sense. Thank you everyone for giving Blade the numbers. It's been getting it's been getting some great feedback. We've gotten lots of comments.
T.C.:I released a portion of the opening segment to TikTok, and that blew up.
Jim:TikTok loves it.
T.C.:TikTok loves it. And, yeah, it's just it's just cool to see. Like, I'll be I'll be honest. I was a little nervous about about it because we did not talk about this on the air, so it's worth just kind of talking here, is we love Mystery Inc. Our season 5 finale Mystery Inc or season 4 Mystery Inc.
T.C.:And Threshold of Chaos. Mhmm. It really, really set a high bar for me in my head. Yeah.
Jim:And I
T.C.:had when we went to record Blade, I was like, okay. It's not gonna be mystery ink. It's a completely different movie. Just let it go and just let have some fun with it. And it turned out great.
Jim:It did.
T.C.:We are going to be doing a essentially, a commentary track for Blade as in its entirety. We'll do a in-depth conversation about the writing of it and the production of it and so on and so forth over on Patreon if anyone's interested in that. That's something you can go check out. Yep. Yep.
T.C.:There you go. But, Jim, are you ready for season 6?
Jim:Yes. Well, no. But I'm gonna say yes to TC. Just here's nothing but enthusiasm.
T.C.:Wait. Wait. Why aren't you ready?
Jim:Because I'm nervous, and and I've never done an I've never done anything this long.
T.C.:Oh, oh, it's a commitment issue. Yes. Oh my gosh. Do you, do you need to go out and buy some cigarettes? Is that
Jim:I'm gonna be left alone here.
T.C.:No. I'm gonna go get some milk.
Jim:Yeah.
T.C.:No. I mean, this is great. We Yeah. We've reached a point now where like, looking at the demands we've been getting in for all these years and curating them to to know, similar to what we did last year, picking topics that will coincide with some of the stuff that's coming out. We're gonna have a little more fun this year and stretching and and doing some more of our oddball episodes because those do just as well,
Jim:like
T.C.:our movie based on a song title or what have you. But we have started to get demands from people asking us to do sequels to the stuff we've pitched previously.
Jim:So yeah. So I'm not ready. I'm scared. It's it's frightening.
T.C.:You're just upset because that means you have to go and listen to an episode.
Jim:It's true. We're at the we're at the precipice of of of anticipation. Mhmm.
T.C.:Well, it's gonna be okay, Jim. We're gonna we're in this together. He's leaving, though. He got he's he's out. Don't don't tell me you're getting milk.
T.C.:Don't give me that I'm getting milk. Look. Get back here.
Jim:But I'm getting the cigarettes.
T.C.:It's a bad habit. But for today's episode, we've actually chosen a demand that as, like, long time listeners of the show will know is pretty appropriate. We decide to kick off season 6 with with a demand, that's linked to the conversation that started the series, that started this podcast. Right, Jim? What are you rubbing your temper?
Jim:Are you are you No. I was I
T.C.:don't do It looks stressed. It looks stressed. You look like
Jim:you're maybe I am. And don't don't bring attention to it. I've already brought too much attention to it. Tried making jokes about it, now it's real.
T.C.:Oh, no. They can hear the quavering in your voice. What are you getting over here? Anyway, Jim, our listeners have given us demands from studios literally all over the world. And you listening right now, you can send us any demand you like, and we will have to meet it right here on the spots.
T.C.:We we literally pull it out of a hat. We open up the paper. Mhmm. That's the sound of paper.
Jim:We've we've received all all of your slips of paper.
T.C.:Yes. Yep.
Jim:And And we put them in a in a big tumbler.
T.C.:Bingo, bingo ball, roll it.
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:Pull it out. We meet your demand here on the spot. And when we reach the end of the episode, if we've done our jobs, we will have pitched a full script and story meeting or even exceeding those demands. And when the end of the season comes, your demand could have helped us craft the film that will be greenlit by the fans for a finale just like Bladeheart of darkness or Mystery Inc and the Threshold Chaos or The Amazing Spider Man 3 or Justice League 1995. So, yes, thank you to everyone who has submitted.
T.C.:Please keep them coming. Today's demand comes from Nicole at seti alpha 5. Seti alpha 5 Studios. Is that a reference? Oh.
T.C.:Do you not get it?
Jim:No. I don't get that.
T.C.:Oh, that's a kick out.
Jim:I'm a bad person.
T.C.:I'm gonna stick a I'm gonna stick a a little, eel in your ear and it's gonna wrap around your brain and we'll be able to control you.
Jim:Yeah. I get that reference.
T.C.:Kill him, Terrell. Okay.
Jim:Was it an eel? I thought it was more like a slug.
T.C.:It's like a slug but they call them eels.
Jim:Oh, did they?
T.C.:Canonically they're called
Jim:heck yeah. I actually they looked like, there there's actually a weird fish that it looks like, but it looked like a combination of a slug and an earwig.
T.C.:It oh. Yeah. Like They're called settee eels. Like, that's that's what they're called in they don't look like eels. Eels, I think, are like water snakes.
T.C.:But
Jim:Search for extraterrestrial intelligence eels?
T.C.:No. What's the e e eel sound of it? Extra extra look out. Slugs. Slugs.
T.C.:Yeah. Nicole is waiting to hear a demand. Red on the air. Here we go. The likelihood of a final film in the Chris Pine Kelvin verse is slimmer and slimmer, but not impossible.
T.C.:The success of Strange New Worlds and the final season of Picard, good specification, suggests that there are plenty more world plenty of more worlds to seek out. But what is a story worth putting on the big screen? The studio demands that Chris Pine's captain Kirk take a final voyage, but with this idea in mind, continue the Kelvin verse beyond Kirk. But do not just bring together the TNG characters and do it all over again. Before it before it became clear that there would not be another Next Generation movie after Nemesis and the Kelvin timeline began, Brett Spiner, Data, made his own last ditch effort to continue the TNG franchise by pitching what he envisioned as a Justice League of Star Trek, a movie that would have united an all star lineup of popular Trek heroes from across the various movies and shows.
T.C.:Spiner and writer John Logan developed a story where Picard would assemble characters from all the various shows and to combat a threat no single generation could have faced alone. Pine is your protagonist. Use this idea as inspiration. Boldly go, gentlemen. Thank you, Nicole and seti alpha 5, studios.
T.C.:Jim, we are being a demand has been put on the table to get one more Chris Pine Captain Kirk Star Trek movie.
Jim:Okay.
T.C.:And Nicole has offered up an idea that Brett Spiner of all people offered up and tried to develop. It and all star it's sort of what Picard did. Right? Because Picard had 7 to 9 from Voyager. Rafi and, from this Mhmm.
T.C.:From Picard season 1 and 2, and then and then the TNG folk. Right? Yeah. So it
Jim:I didn't see all of the last season that
T.C.:It's the only good one. It's the only good one worth watching. That's okay.
Jim:I saw, I know it. I was it the 3rd season where Riker had, pizza ovens?
T.C.:No. No. That was
Jim:That was really good.
T.C.:In the future
Jim:I don't I don't think I've started season 3.
T.C.:Okay. It's very good. It's a it is it is quite good. It's the it is okay. There's a point in the 3rd season where they
Jim:Like, I just it's important to me. Yeah. Do the pizza ovens come back?
T.C.:The pizza like, they are a central key pivotal nonentity.
Jim:That's all I needed to know.
T.C.:It's in the hearts of Ryker the entire time.
Jim:Wait. They put a they put a stone fire pizza oven in his
T.C.:in his body? They shrunk it down and put it in in it's like a bow.
Jim:So he can, like, make pizzas on the go?
T.C.:He opens his mouth and they shoot out of him like a Ninja Turtle toy. Where are we? Where are we?
Jim:We're in Star Trek.
T.C.:Oh my god. There's a moment in Picard season 3 where they they say, the Borg? We haven't had contact with the Borg in decade decades or whatever. When literally the previous season, that was the main antagonist. As if to say, even we are gonna ignore everything that came before this.
Jim:Interesting.
T.C.:Okay. So we're being asked to do a Chris Pine. No. There's been there's been more than words of that.
Jim:Crossing the the the multiverse of Star Trek.
T.C.:There's a I I I love Star Trek. I I've I've recounted the tale before. I did not know I was a Trekkie until I was in Star Trek Into Darkness watching people enjoying the movie and being mad at that. That's when I was like, oh, shit. I should have realized I was a Trekkie before that because I was in 6th grade.
T.C.:I wrote fan fiction where I was a captain in Star Trek. Yeah. The I actually lost my thread here. The the the pine the okay. I know.
T.C.:There has there has been development on multiple movies
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:In the Calvin verse. At one point, Tarantino pitched a movie Mhmm.
Jim:That he
T.C.:would direct. His 10th movie in the end of his career would be the 4th Chris Pine.
Jim:Oh, and that was supposed to be a Calvin verse movie?
T.C.:Yeah. Yeah. He was gonna bring back the cast. It would would have been the 4th Chris Pine, Zachary Quinto, so on and so forth movie, and then, that obviously didn't happen. He said, at least, it doesn't seem like it's gonna happen.
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:They were developing one that got furthest along, I I seem to recall, was they were gonna bring Chris Hemsworth back because he played George Kirk
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:And have a time travel scenario where Kirk and his dad would have to team up or fight or something like that.
Jim:Sure.
T.C.:Time travel plays more a part in Star Trek than I think it should.
Jim:I agree. It's it's, it's a big turn off for me for Star Trek. Star Trek turns me on in so many ways. Oh, I can
T.C.:see it. So he's taking his sweater off both.
Jim:But then we start getting into time travel and it just it it it cools the whole situation down for me.
T.C.:It's not to say that the time travel stuff hasn't yielded some really great results in Star Trek.
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:All the way back to TOS, there's the,
Jim:It's entirely responsible for the Kelvin verse.
T.C.:Yeah. Yeah. The the very existence of this is is based on, a time rift from Nero, and Spot coming through. Voyage Home is time travel. It's one of the best ones.
T.C.:It was for a time the highest grossing Star Trek movie. Mhmm. The City on the Edge of Forever, which is one of the original series episodes, is one of the best. Harlan Ellison wrote that episode and it's it's incredible. It's it's a great it's a great, look at, like, questioning, like, the the, like, this needs to happen so this doesn't happen kind of thing.
T.C.:Like, what do you have to sacrifice knowing the future and all that. So time travel has has worked in in Star Trek. But it it does seem like it starts it starts reaching a point of being, like, why is it always have to be time travel? Like, even First Contact is the best of the next generation movies, and that's a time travel movie.
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:Sector 31 section 31 is the Star Trek movie dropping on Paramount plus
Jim:plus
T.C.:this month. Yep. That's Michelle Yow's character Mhmm. From Discovery. And section 31 is the clandestine time travel y Mhmm.
T.C.:Star Trek Discovery. Let their characters a 100 years into the future to get away from the timeline and, like, use time travel and then didn't do anything beyond that. Goddamn.
Jim:Oh, I got a Discovery rant in me.
T.C.:You know I I have my feelings about discovery. And and it's a shame because there's so much about discovery that is good and and could be better. And then everything that's wrong with it just is frustratingly wrong.
Jim:Sure. It's like,
T.C.:it's right there. What are you doing? Let's not do that. Let's not make this a rant about discovery.
Jim:No.
T.C.:Having this right here in front of us, this demand saying, bring together an all star collective of characters for Kirk to deal with. Sure. It does suggest time travel would have to be Well involved.
Jim:We live in the, the age of the multiverse Right. Which doesn't require time travel. Yeah. But time travel can be a part of it. Yeah.
Jim:The first thing I think of is actually a next generation. It's the the last next generation episode. That's the first one I think of because unknown like, a plethora of, enterprises Yeah. Comes together.
T.C.:Three three time periods all have to work together to stop the big the big bad in the end. I think there's a way to do this without time travel. And if and if we're gonna do time travel as limited of time travel as exists in Star Trek 2009, which would be number 11. So the, the first Chris Pinell.
Jim:Mhmm. Okay.
T.C.:That's a limited amount of time travel. It's just one pocket rip open and create a new Sure. New, timeline. You clear my throat. Sorry.
Jim:I made sure to be extra quiet so that
T.C.:would cause you
Jim:to make yeah.
T.C.:Is it possible for us to do this without time travel? I'm wondering. Because here here's a thought. Going going advancing in the in the Kelvin verse timeline to go from TOS to next generation was a 100 years. So the only the the way they got characters from TOS into TNG was based on a couple of things.
T.C.:Spock, being a Vulcan, could live that long. So he just happened to still be alive. Bones, being one of the greatest doctors in the galactic history, took care of himself to the point where he is in the first episode of TNG as a 100 plus year old man. Mhmm. Scottie, beamed himself into a transporter buffer Mhmm.
T.C.:And existed on repeat for a century until they got him out. The, Nexus wave from, that hit Viridian in generations is how Kirk and Picard got to team up.
Jim:Okay.
T.C.:They went into the the wave. I think that's it as far as, TOS characters that got to make it to TNG.
Jim:Okay.
T.C.:So not all time travel. Right? In fact, only one time traveler, and it was Kirk.
Jim:Well, there's always the old fashioned way of of, one day one day passing for every one day that passes. Age. I'm making a dumb age joke.
T.C.:Slap. That's what Spock did. That's a
Jim:Yes.
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:Yes. Spock and Bones did that. Yes.
T.C.:Now let's let's take pineapple equation for a second here. Because if the idea is or the demand is to get to TNG's characters and continue the Kelvin verse with them
Jim:That was not the demand.
T.C.:Well, no. It it's it didn't say don't don't
Jim:don't jump to next generation but pass the torch.
T.C.:Right. Right. So we're putting on the big screen. The final 4 of these ideas, maybe we do not just bring the TNG carrier before. Okay.
T.C.:Here's a thought. Because I think we could use the TNG characters. We could re we could soft well, reboot. I don't know if that's the right word. Extend the Kelvin verse and hand it off to Picard and the gang and anyone else we want.
T.C.:Tian'jiv, Deep Space Nine, and Voyager all exist at the same time. All those characters exist at the same time. Mhmm. So we could use the idea that Brett Spiner and this John Logan, which is the rogue's gallery of Trek characters.
Jim:Sure.
T.C.:We could potentially put together a cast using TNG Voyager and Deep Space 9, not bringing back those actors, like recasting just like they did in 2009, and have our choices of our favorite characters from those three series put together a crew that somehow involves Pine's crew, Kirk.
Jim:Again, maybe I misunderstood. Did it not say do not jump to the next generation characters?
T.C.:No. It says do not just bring together the TNG characters and do it all over again. I'm interpreting that as don't just put Pine aside, go to TNG, and just start from there. Oh, it's Picard and Riker and Troy and Worf and Data. I think that's how I'm interpreting that.
Jim:Okay.
T.C.:Don't just bring together particularly because we just had Picard season 3, brought all those characters back together anyway. I wouldn't want to just reboot TNG. Okay.
Jim:And I
T.C.:think that's what Nicole here is saying. Don't just I wish she would have worded it that way, but don't just reboot TNG is how I'm seeing reading this.
Jim:Okay.
T.C.:But using she says use the spiner idea, as inspiration.
Jim:Okay. So
T.C.:I'm sort of putting the 2 together saying, like, let's can we draw our favorite characters or or great characters from all those three shows, put a crew together that teams up with Pine Pike, Chris Pine? Sure. Okay. Because alternatively, which I think you're leaning towards was actually do bring back all those actors and, like, what were you thinking?
Jim:I, a, heroes of tomorrow in Star Trek.
T.C.:The like the DC legends of tomorrow.
Jim:Legends of tomorrow. Yeah.
T.C.:Do would you actually bring together those actors?
Jim:That was that was that was my initial thought.
T.C.:My I hate to be ageist, but all the actors of TNG and Voyager and d Space 9 are 50 plus years old. Yeah. Even Wesley Crusher at this point. Yep. I'm I'm being ageist by suggesting this, but I don't know if that's the right way to build a a film is to have a bunch of old people running around.
T.C.:I'm sorry to say it. I sound like an ass. I'm sorry.
Jim:Look. Yep. If there's anything the last decade of sequels have taught me Mhmm. Is that peep people love seeing geriatric versions of their heroes come back to throw one last punch.
T.C.:Oh, god. It's not the miles. It's the years, honey. Don't get me wrong. I love Indiana Jones.
T.C.:Top Gun Maverick proved proved the exception to be like, oh, you
Jim:can You know whose fault all of that is? Whose fault is it? It's Liam Neeson.
T.C.:Damn it, Liam Neeson.
Jim:With with his 80 Taken movies. He just somehow Come on, guys. I just wanna talk about basketball.
T.C.:That's a real deep cut reference to the first Taken, Jim. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Let's let's set this aside for saying, and let's just focus in specifically on Chris Pine and what we've gotten from those 3 films.
Jim:K.
T.C.:So in 2009, we got the young, brash upstart captain Ensign Kirk, who is promoted to captain by the end of the year.
Jim:His first name's Ensign?
T.C.:Ensign. Oh. James t Kirk. Didn't realize that. He was destined to never get promoted.
T.C.:God, I just had a core memory unlock moment. Yeah. The show Family Matters. Carl Winslow was a cop. Yeah.
T.C.:And his his boss was lieutenant something. And, they had, like, a stakeout and Carl was like, I don't really know. Like, what's your first name? And he's like, lieutenant. He's like, your first name's lieutenant?
T.C.:Yeah. Whenever I get promoted, I legally change my name to my rank. Stupid that I remember. So stupid that I remember that. 2009, we kicked off like a young, cool, super kinetic JJ Abrams style, like, insert.
T.C.:Lights
Jim:shining in her eyes the whole time.
T.C.:Boom, boom, boom. We don't have time to think about the logic of this. Let's get to the next thing. And it was fun and cool.
Jim:Like,
T.C.:I I think that 2,009 1 is a great example of how to truly inject new life into a franchise.
Jim:So literally an adrenaline shot? Yeah.
T.C.:Like, that's
Jim:a fair idea.
T.C.:Well, that's what the 2009 was. It was like I I mean, it it it it's in the same it's not the same ballpark of quality at all. Like, Mad Max Fury Road is is is a is one of the best movies of the past decade. Right?
Jim:Okay.
T.C.:But that movie's I remember seeing someone's review of it was like, I sat down in the theater, someone grabbed me by the front of the shirt and shook me for 2 hours and then let me go. That's kinda how JJ Abrams produced that 2 1009 Star Trek. It's just boom boom boom boom boom. Action action action move. It's cool.
T.C.:It's fun. It's dumb. And then we got Star Trek Into Darkness, which was that but gritty. Mhmm. Spock is screaming and punching Khan in the face.
T.C.:Mhmm. And, they foolishly tried to recreate Rapi Khan,
Jim:which
T.C.:they shouldn't have done. We can talk about that on the commentary track. Okay. And then that one critically didn't do so well. So there was a little bit of languishing before they got that third one out, which was Star Trek Beyond.
T.C.:And thank god Simon Pegg came along and wrote the damn thing Mhmm. And paid honor to what is and was for Star Trek. And Star Trek Beyond is a great Star Trek movie.
Jim:Mhmm. But it
T.C.:was too little, too late because that movie did not do well enough that they continued on with the series, which is why we're here now. So just with that said, if if you were to just do a 4th Chris Pine in Star Trek, what would you do? Is there anything that springs to your mind? Because, obviously, this is something that I think about often.
Jim:2009 was when he was an ensign, when he was basically a 20 something. Mhmm. In real life, we are now in 2025. Mhmm. So we're 4 4 wait.
Jim:14, 15th 16 years later.
T.C.:Yeah. What what's wild is that So
Jim:he's only in his thirties?
T.C.:Right. In the the beginning of Star Trek Beyond, he, Chris Pine is is having a bit of a they've been out on their mission. They've they've they're about to wrap it up. He's successfully been seeking new worlds and new lives and civilizations. But he's coming to terms with the fact that he is now a year older.
T.C.:It's his birthday, and he will now be a year older than his dad was when he died. And and he's thinking about life and the time we have and legacy. It's a little odd for a 30 something year old to be thinking that, but it makes sense in the context of a man who lost his father and his entire existence is and his timeline was built upon that. A lot of destiny and fate and Mhmm. Legacy is all addressed in there.
T.C.:And it's and it's it's it's done appropriately. So so now that was in 2016. So we're 7 years after the fact. So now we're we're looking at 40 something Kirk.
Jim:Okay. Do we make backstory? Do we wanna do a father story? Does he does he have a kid? I know I know, William Shatner Mhmm.
Jim:William Shatner's Kirk had a kid Mhmm. At some point. And, like, I I don't remember it well enough, but I I know he had a kid and I know his marriage went wrong. And then I know in one of the movies, his kid died and
T.C.:then his wife also died. No. No. No? Sash, you're doing great.
T.C.:You're doing great. No. No. I'm not gonna I'm actually through this. I'll just just clarify.
T.C.:Kirk does have a son David with, with his with,
Jim:Kirk. And even as a kid, I remember not liking David. Yeah. Yeah. I remember him being whiny like, your dad's captain Kirk.
Jim:You you should be so lucky.
T.C.:Be cool. Goddamn it. No. It's a doctor Marcus. It's Carol in the original series.
T.C.:It was, Alice Eve played her in Star Trek Into Darkness. Carol and Kirk were a couple. He got her pregnant, and she said, I don't want you to be a part of this kid's life. I'm asking you to leave. You are you are destined to be out in the stars.
T.C.:You will be a bad father. Get out of here. Not in so many words bad as Century is the case. They agreed to that. That.
T.C.:So David didn't know like, David didn't have a fondness for Kirk at all. Mhmm. When he finally meets him, which is in which is in Wrath of Khan, in, Search for Spock, the klingons kill David. And that's leads Kirk to have, like, a pretty good already a grudge a cold war galactic grudge against the klingons made all the worse by having this helicopter fly over us. Right?
Jim:Yeah. Yeah.
T.C.:That sounds incredibly low. Yeah.
Jim:Incredibly low. Yeah. There was a there was a helicopter movie
T.C.:Jesus.
Jim:Starring Roy Scheider
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:Blue blue fox, something something like that. I can't I can't remember what it was. But the idea was this new helicopter, was, like, near silent. They were able to, like, hover outside an apartment window and spy on people in an apart in a in a in a cheeky little scene. You
T.C.:tell me Blue Thunder's out here right now?
Jim:I'm telling you you, the opposite of Blue Thunder just passed by.
T.C.:Blue lightning.
Jim:Yeah. They they want red red light.
T.C.:Red light.
Jim:They want you to know it's there.
T.C.:I'm here. Anyway, David was killed by the Klingons. There you go. So he'd Kirk had a son that was killed by Klingons. And the Klingon bastards, you killed my son.
T.C.:And he held that grudge, which comes back in plain undiscovered country, and they use that against Kirk to make him look like a bad guy.
Jim:Have we seen Klingons in the Kelvin verse?
T.C.:Yes. Yeah. Yeah. They had, like, really tight ridges. They redesigned the ridges so they were like like And
Jim:then and then they redesigned them even worse in Discovery. Stupid Discovery.
T.C.:They tried it.
Jim:Discovery's stupid.
T.C.:There's good in it. There's good in it, Jake.
Jim:There yeah. Yeah. There's nuggets of good just like
T.C.:oh, god. Go ahead.
Jim:Just like kernels of corn in a poop.
T.C.:Wow. The corn's still good. Yeah. We've been doing this 6 years now. People are gonna start putting our quotes on pull quotes on posters.
T.C.:Do you see what's on the back of the Blu ray for discovery? It's from Studio Demands. Jim Berzelik says this show is like a nugget of corn in poop.
Jim:I I said that. I said that, and it's recorded.
T.C.:That's going out all over the world. Anyway I
Jim:I wanna clarify. Yes. I don't eat poop corn. No. Good.
Jim:Oh, thank you.
T.C.:That was the thing that needed to clarify. It was. Anyway, yes. In the original canon, Kirk had a son, David David Marcus, who was killed. In the in Strange New Worlds, Kirk has been introduced in the series.
T.C.:He's a recurring character in season 2. Carol Marcus has been mentioned that he's in a relationship with her. I I believe the way they're structuring Strange New Worlds, it does exist in the TOS timeline. So they are fulfilling some destiny, which is a lot of what that show is about. And as much as we wanna sit here and rag on discovery for its fallacies, Strange New World is perfection.
T.C.:It is 99% perfection. Your suggestion that we take Pine and his Kirk and potentially give him a father son story?
Jim:Yeah. Okay.
T.C.:Go on. That's it.
Jim:Then the movie ends.
T.C.:That's it.
Jim:I I was hoping that might be, like, a diving board that leads somewhere, but it it might not be. It might just be a dead end alley.
T.C.:One of my biggest issues with Star Trek Into Darkness was that they with the introduction of 2,009 Star Trek timeline, they had an opportunity to do anything and everything, and they decided to just repeat what they'd already done.
Jim:Sure.
T.C.:That's negating the entire idea of rebooting this universe. They're like, oh, we're just gonna do the same shit again.
Jim:Sure. This is
T.C.:why Star Trek
Jim:But faster with adrenaline.
T.C.:Yeah. And spot punching and screaming. Yeah. Whereas Star Trek Beyond did finds it found some new aliens to play with, some new characters. It didn't repeat anything.
T.C.:Mhmm. They found some cheeky references and with troubles and whatnot. That was fun. But it it gave its its own story to tell as opposed to just replicating something that had already been done. Yes.
T.C.:I did smirk
Jim:Yes. Because I
T.C.:used the word replicate.
Jim:Yep. You did. I was gonna let I was just gonna let that People need to let go. Okay.
T.C.:That I was so proud of myself. So what what I would wanna do with Kirk having a son is something new. I wouldn't just wanna be like, oh, guess what? You have a son you didn't raise. Correct?
T.C.:Like, you didn't know you or didn't know you. You're a bad dad. Now here's your son. He hates you. I wouldn't wanna replicate damn it.
T.C.:I didn't wanna repeat that stuff.
Jim:Sure. Well, I I wouldn't wanna do it the way Star Trek did because, right, his son was grown.
T.C.:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Jim:I would probably make him an an adolescent. Middle middle school age, maybe high school that even that might be too old, but middle school
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:Is what I'm thinking. It's he's estranged. He doesn't know his dad. He doesn't resent him. He doesn't do anything like that.
Jim:Mhmm. And maybe maybe, right right, you you said he already had his his crisis Mhmm. Of I'm older than my dad was, so maybe this is not the thing to go down. But, I'm thinking Kirk Kirk is struggling with his career, the thing that, and even even pitch it. Not not pitch it, set it up so that Star Fleet keeps saying, okay, Kirk.
Jim:You you have more. Like, I don't know if we'd wanna go as far as to act make him an admiral already. Mhmm. But, like, you have a lot of responsibility here. A lot of starfleet is sitting on your shoulders.
Jim:You're not doing your 5 year, exploration anymore. You're now you're a career military man. We need a lot of stuff. We need this stuff from you.
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:Meanwhile, he there's this kid he wants to be a father to because he never had a father. Mhmm. He had his uncle who loved beastie boys Mhmm. But clearly, he did not like him. And so he wants he wants to be a better dad, doesn't necessarily know how to be a better dad.
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:And then drama and action. Action.
T.C.:Okay. I'm I'm a I'm a throw some of that because I kinda like what you you're you're you're in a good realm here. I think that we could play with this. So I'm gonna throw a suggestion here and tell me what you think of this. Bay based on the idea that, the longevity of these characters in this future world can get us a bones McCoy who's a 100 plus years old when TNG launches.
T.C.:Mhmm. Having a storyline that takes place in two different periods of time. We have the what will ultimately be the final voyage of Kirk and the star Starship Enterprise with his crew and this kid in one part of the story. The other part of the story, and I don't mean, like, first half of the movie, second half of the movie. I mean, literally jumping narrative between 2, is the very adult son of of Kirk, who David, who has survived to the TNG era interacting with the young, and what will ultimately be that crew.
T.C.:Now that's that's really rough, and it and it sounds a little dumb. But much like Kirk stumbling upon Scottie and and all his crew members piece by piece in the first one, there could be contrived reasons how David Marcus Kirk interacts with Young, Picard, and Ryker, and those crew members to get them together.
Jim:I'm I'm getting weird frequency feels from this.
T.C.:I yeah. And and I'm I'm I'm I am kind of suggesting that that we have some sort of villain or threat that exists in Kirk's last mission and what would be the first mission sorry. Kirk's last mission and what would be the first mission of this new next generation of characters. And the link between them is David, who is a kid here and a very elderly man over here. And Oh
Jim:oh, you don't I I wouldn't wanna put it here here's what I would do. To to not just to again, not just have it be. We're gonna meet all the TNG characters. The problem is they're all they're all different ages, so we can't have we can't really do a 2009 for TNG.
T.C.:Right. And I don't I'm not necessarily suggesting that.
Jim:What if David is not necessarily a very old man?
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:What if he has a young Ensign named Jean Luc Picard?
T.C.:Okay. That's that's
Jim:So I don't know if we'd meet any of the other next generation characters.
T.C.:But we at least meet him.
Jim:At least yeah. We'd meet him as as this this young upstart.
T.C.:That's not it? That that and then the threat He
Jim:puts it at what? 70 5?
T.C.:Yeah. He's like a he's like an 80 year old man. And then and in Star Trek terms, that is still a futile, let
Jim:me tell you.
T.C.:I mean, Picard in the Picard series, he's still maging out.
Jim:It's true. He's still
T.C.:he's still you know, he's Kirk Kirk's out there philandering. Mhmm. I the some threat that exists for Kirk in his last mission that I do think probably should kill him. I think that there'd be something in in seeing Kirk die.
Jim:We're gonna we're gonna do a little tangent real quick here.
T.C.:Okay. Alright. Strap in folks.
Jim:I wanna talk about killing characters. I think I I think in general, audiences, fans, don't like it. Mhmm. I think it's a like like and and I think there's something that us English majors, us writers, we do. We do like killing it.
Jim:There's a finality. There's a and the the scene is complete. The curtain has dropped. We like it.
T.C.:The final punctuation mark.
Jim:But that's I I think, for for the most part, in general, I think it's bad.
T.C.:To to kill off a character? Yeah. Okay. I I don't agree nor disagree. I totally will be willing to continue the the discussion of it because you you are you're right.
T.C.:Yeah. Killing killing off a character sometimes feels, weird. Like, for example, killing James Bond in his last film
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:More more felt like we're gonna obliterate Daniel Craig because he does not want to do this anymore. It did feel appropriate to the character. It felt very much like, I want out. Vaporize me.
Jim:But, like, even even thinking about something like Sherlock Holmes. Mhmm. People were so mad when he died at the waterfall. Yeah.
T.C.:Because because people love
Jim:the character. And it's a great ending. It's a great ending for that character, but that's so I I feel killing Kirk even if we did it great Mhmm. If we did it great, it could be a tearjerker. It could be nice, but there will be even in people who like it, there's there's still gonna be that that that tug of, did you have to?
Jim:Yeah. Wow. Maybe that and maybe that's something to ignore and and to just rise above fandom Mhmm. And just say, no. Characters must die.
Jim:Maybe that's our responsibility
T.C.:You're right.
Jim:As story story right, creators, storytellers.
T.C.:But To to counter the point, though, you and to not kill the character, the farewell of Kirk and of William Shatner and that group in Undiscovered Country is bittersweet and damn near perfect. Where where Kirk is doing his final log and he said it's time to hand this off to the next generation. And William Shatner delivers life beautifully. And it's a it's a farewell to these characters where they go, well, let's just do one more trip. We're just gonna take a quick spin around here.
T.C.:Like, let's let's take one more zip out and zip back. And they and they zip off into the sunset and none of them are killed. Mhmm. And it's beautiful. It's a it's a beautiful farewell.
Jim:I also thought of another reason that we shouldn't do that.
T.C.:Yeah. Kill a character.
Jim:Kill Kirk. Kill Kirk. Okay. Is because, it tells it even if it's in the line of of saving David, it still tells us he chose career over being a father.
T.C.:Oh, yeah.
Jim:Whereas if he lives, we can at least insinuate with some sort of denouement, some sort of epilogue, that he went on to be a father to this character.
T.C.:He he said he said goodbye to okay. Yes. I agree. We're not gonna kill Kirk. We there may be other characters that need to go that we could find sacrifices for, and I don't wanna blow up the ship.
T.C.:Because that's another thing that they do a one too many times where it's starting to lose its effect.
Jim:Sure.
T.C.:Where it's like stop blowing up the enterprise. It doesn't even matter anymore, damn it.
Jim:In fact, I want that to be a line. The bad guys are shooting at it. Parts of it are getting blown off and and Kirk says stop blowing up the enterprise.
T.C.:Either him or Scotty. One of them is gonna say it. Yeah. I agree. Let's not kill Kirk.
T.C.:Because because there yeah. There there's something really sweet about him
Jim:walking away. Because essentially, he there there is a death there. Right? The the death of captain Yeah.
T.C.:Kirk. He he retires the title. Yeah. And yeah. I like him.
Jim:And he's going to become father, dad I'm just gonna dad Jim Kirk.
T.C.:Just call me Jim. Yep. Captain, just call me Jim. Ah, that could be a line in the movie. Having him say goodbye to his career to focus on his child.
T.C.:Yeah. I think that's great. And and having the risk of of young David like, I'm not saying he should be be kidnapped by by the villains by any means. Okay.
Jim:There is there is a shorter, punchier, action packed way to do this. Mhmm. Like, the that that's still his the, his character arc that he's trying to do. He's he wants to get home to be a father. Mhmm.
Jim:We fling Kirk into the future. So it's time travel Mhmm. But it's the other way. He, he's been thrown into the future and he has to find a way back. Mhmm.
Jim:So Kirk and maybe a full away team. Maybe maybe the the, a bunch of the crew. Yeah.
T.C.:We can kick Spak in a hurry.
Jim:They're all in this in in the Kelvin t TNG future Mhmm. Having to deal with, like and and we can do we can make the knobs to in TNG, like, here, so and so. Yeah. Yeah. No.
Jim:Get us home and and, kinda do all that stuff.
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:And we can we can even because we can say, right, it's not necessarily a fixed timeline, so we can have things be wobbly Mhmm. Because they're like, they get there and, like, you guys disappeared and so and so. No. Well, this is where we appeared. You need to get us back, but you were never found again.
Jim:Well, we're you're gonna we're gonna find us. Mhmm. Something something like that because Kirk needs to get home. Ultimately, his character arc is he needs to get home to his his son. Mhmm.
Jim:And and there could even be something about that, like
T.C.:Oh. Where Kirk
Jim:looks to see what happened to his family. Yeah. Yeah. So so almost, we're we're almost doing a Christmas carol.
T.C.:A little bit.
Jim:For, for for Kirk or at least the the the the ghost of Star Trek future.
T.C.:Star Trek future. The notion that Kirk would oh, this is sort of a needs of the men, needs of the few, scenario, that okay. He gets to a future. He's confronted by Captain Picard. Like, the enterprise d
Jim:Sure.
T.C.:Gets the crew and they're like, you're Jim Kirk. You dis you and your crew disappeared over almost a 100 years ago. We don't we don't even believe that you're him. Yeah. You're do you think you're the first people to pose as Kirk?
T.C.:You're under arrest or whatnot.
Jim:And he opens he opens a secret panel in the enterprise to pull out a bottle of scotch. Like, I put this here.
T.C.:Like, it's you. How did you get it in the d? You were in the a. It doesn't make any sense. And how many times have they blown up the enterprise?
T.C.:The basically, setting them up as the bag as the as the bad guys in this scenario where they show up and they're like, we need to go back.
Jim:Oh, they're they're the time criminals.
T.C.:They're the time criminals. And then the the d group, the Picard and his crew are like, no. We're gonna stop you. Because Kirk's notion is, however we got here doesn't matter. We need to go back in time to the point where everything got screwed up and go back there.
T.C.:If you do that, Kirk, you are going to do exactly what killed your father and created a whole new you timeline. He wants to do he wants to basically do what Nero did in the first movie. He's like, I'm not going back to destroy anything. I just wanna go back to where we belong and my son and my family. Right.
T.C.:That's not how time travel works. If you go back to that point, you will erase everything that followed. And and he and Kirk is basically gonna have the mentality like, I don't care. I'm going back. Maybe there's a a better way to do it.
T.C.:But if it's that stubborn, I don't believe in a loseage scenario. Sure. But the we need to go back. And there could be a MacGuffin.
Jim:This might be too, cheesy, not cliche, too too hokey. Mhmm. For either version, for whether we do the frequency flipping between the past and the the the the future, or this version, what do you think Mhmm. About a Kelvin verse version of q being the bad guy? Oh.
Jim:He doesn't have to be as present and flamboyant
T.C.:Mhmm. As As John Dolancy is.
Jim:John Dolancy. But what what do you think about it? Because and and, ultimately, in the end, like like and he doesn't even have to show up too much. He can he can sort of be this background anomaly. Oh.
Jim:So then at at the end, when when Kirk does finally get there Yeah. It was q who who set this up, and he's like, interesting.
T.C.:Yeah. I'm doing this as a test of community. And you've done something you've created something that will actually help is a character who can contrive time travel and comment on it. Yeah. A character like Q who exists at all times in all times can can somehow make the reference of of, you know, like, if Kirk discovers him, if they if if it's if if it's some away mission where q confronts Kirk out of curiosity, like, I've dealt with many captains, and they're always so much fun.
T.C.:And and give them that little bit of
Jim:But no but no one's ever made it out. So so or or like like like like like like and and I it just if that's what we do, I like the idea that there there's sort of a final conversation between Kirk and Kyu, and Kyu says something to the effect of, I think I'm gonna go back and mess with that Jean Luc
T.C.:before. Yeah. It's funny because John De Lancie does appear in Picard as well. And and that's fine because there's not a single bad Q episode. I I that might be a hot take and there might be some Star Trek fans out there who's like, the the
Jim:There are some that are lesser. Right. I can't think of any that are no good.
T.C.:Right. The my my favorite thing about Q is that he had one episode on d s 9 and Cisco had none of that shit. And Q Q was like, I'm not coming back here. I'm gonna go romance captain Janeway. Like so having Q come in and be, like, essentially testing Kirk, being fascinated by him, being interested in studying him and and cornering him and going, I'm curious how you'll handle x y.
T.C.:What an interesting life and existence you shouldn't even have because of shenanigans. Mhmm. I'm wondering, you know, I see a man who wants to be a father who's who could end his career now at such a young age and have a whole life at like, just Mhmm. Bit saying a lot of the text out loud and then going, I wonder how you're gonna handle this. And just sends them to the future.
T.C.:There's no
Jim:Oh, I would rather contrive an anomaly that like like, they don't like like, it's not, I'm the villain and we have the and we choose some scenery. Like, I I like the idea that that Kirk answers a call or gets embroiled in a mess that flings him, and he's like, no. I was 3 days to retirement kinda kinda thing. And then through that finding out like like like having seeds planted that Kirk, some someone, one of one of our protagonists, because it doesn't necessarily have to be Kirk, figures out that there is a sentience that has caused this, not not just not just an anomaly, not just a rip in space time.
T.C.:And it's cute. Mhmm. The the the hardest thing here, and it's a challenge I'm willing to accept, is we we verge into a it's an all it's all a dream territory. Sending him to the future and then sending him back. That we verge into that, like, well, none of that mattered.
T.C.:So making it really matter that Kirk is willingly choosing to destroy an entire timeline to get to get back where he thinks he belongs or he believes he should be, that's that's a fun challenge to overcome.
Jim:Is that that's where we can start leaning on q for exposition.
T.C.:And he
Jim:can be like, no. It's not destroyed.
T.C.:It's it's how the multiverse works.
Jim:It's nudged Yeah. But it's
T.C.:Coming up with Q being a presence that's observing this Mhmm. But not the threat. So now let's we what we need is how how and why does Kirk get launched a 100 years in the future. Okay?
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:And what we can do is we're gonna take a break right here. Okay. And so we have a moment here to kinda give us a couple minutes to sort of digest these thoughts. I I do think despite our protest as a time travel, I'm okay with this so far.
Jim:Well, because we're we're going the opposite way. I don't I don't know of any Star Trek where they went to the future.
T.C.:Discovery went to the future. They stayed there. Discovery went to the future.
Jim:TV show. That's Yeah.
T.C.:We're talking about the movie. Who watches these shows? These these very devout fan based shows. Okay. Let's take a break here.
T.C.:We'll come back and let's what what we need to think about, we'll take on our break. We'll think about the villain, like what's the bad guy here? What's the what's the reason this happens?
Jim:Oh, I think I have it.
T.C.:Okay. Good. Hold on to that. And also, let's start thinking about our other characters. Because Kirk's not the only one who deserves an arc.
Jim:Well, and and that's why I said he's not, that's why I was thinking he's the one who figures it out. Spock Yeah. Could figure it out.
T.C.:Yeah. The other characters are involved here. So let's, let's take a break here and we'll come back. Alright. Here's some words from 65 Media, everyone.
T.C.:Well, and we're back.
Jim:Okay. Welcome back.
T.C.:Do you have, you have some you you said you thought something. Okay.
Jim:I So Yeah. I know, like, you mentioned how, the Kelvin verse was an opportunity to do new things, introduce new stuff, and not just repeat all the old stuff, but you wanna hit certain familiar things.
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:I think Q is ultimately is responsible for whatever the anomaly is that the time tunnel essentially. What do you think about the idea of the the the borders with the, the Klingon empire are getting hot
T.C.:Okay.
Jim:With Star Fleet. And that's a reason Kirk, as as a super captain or admiral or Mhmm. Just cap what what whatever rank he is.
T.C.:He's captain.
Jim:He's captain.
T.C.:He has
Jim:to has to go out there.
T.C.:If one thing Kirk learns in every version of himself is he belongs in that chair, don't take him out of the ship.
Jim:Okay. Well, but it might even be he was, promoted out, but he because the war is starting up, he is like, nah. Get me out there. Something something like that.
T.C.:They did demote him in the original part of the movies as well where they got the admiral and put him back. Like, your punishment is your captain again. Here's a ship.
Jim:But essentially he goes out there and, chases a Klingon through it or gets chased by a Klingon through it. So there's also a Klingon in the future. That's that's our bad guy. Mhmm. When they get there, they make contact with the Klingon Empire and find out that there is a peace, you know, pretty long standing peace at this point with the with Starfleet with the Federation, and, they're not about it because they're from when they were very much aware.
Jim:And so he's instigating war. Like, he's he's drumming up Mhmm. The the the the Klingon empire like like saying that that, like, you've been put to sleep and and, I'm gonna wake you up and and so they're they're doing that. So that's what they have to contest Mhmm. Within the the future.
T.C.:Okay.
Jim:What do you think of that?
T.C.:That that's that's good. I like the I like a Klingon being the villain in this. It does touch on some undiscovered country echoes
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:Because the the idea in undiscovered country is the the final peace treaty between Klingons and and Starf, and the Federation is gonna be signed. Mhmm. And there's an assassination attempt that the klingons perpetrate in order to keep the war going.
Jim:Sure. And and I feel like it's like an inversion of Nero in the the the 2,009 one where he came back in time and was like, murder them all. And then this guy goes to the future where peace has been had. He's like, no. Murder them all.
T.C.:I want there should be a war. What what what's the what's the this peace is not our our people are kinda like, we need to be fighting. Now
Jim:How do any of you die with honor?
T.C.:Oh, yeah.
Jim:Right? That kind of thing.
T.C.:The the question then is why go back? Like, there there's there's no agency for Kirk to go back now.
Jim:But he well, the agency is to get to his son.
T.C.:Right. Okay. If that's the only reason. Like, if if Well,
Jim:also they don't belong there.
T.C.:Right. Right. But if a 100 years of peace has existed, what Kirk's risking by going back and I'm playing the ad I'm just being devil's advocate here. By Kirk going back, he's risking that 100 years piece being erased. The the Klingon Empire and Star Fleet have been fine for all these years.
T.C.:If he goes back, that timeline erases, and now it's it's it's up to like, how do you maintain that?
Jim:Oh. Oh, well well, I think that touches on what you were saying. Right? So, Star Fleet, the the, Picard Mhmm. Is like, no.
Jim:We can't let you go back. Right. Right. He would be the one voicing. That jeopardizes the peace that we've had.
T.C.:Okay. Good. Yeah.
Jim:Like, if you if you wanna put the peace actually being on that event where this Klingon ship and this Federation ship disappeared and they're like, that's weird. Let's be friends now.
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:I I that feels a little too,
T.C.:Lynchpinning.
Jim:Yeah. But we can do that. I I think But the thing is, I think what that does is that does what you wanted is Mhmm. That's where it pits Picard and crew against Kirk.
T.C.:Yeah. Well, yes. So you've you've addressed what I was what I was asking. It does make Kirk's choice rather selfish. Spock even being like, logically, Picard is right.
T.C.:We shouldn't go back. Mhmm. We're risking everything. And Kirk's like, no.
Jim:But what if we promise? But what if we promise?
T.C.:We the future is not written and our future this isn't our future. I feel like there can be some moral quandaries happening here, which whether Q's involved or not is is something that'd be very deeply fascinating to him.
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:I I wanna add this element. I want Kirk and a way team crew, whatever the case, when they're flung forward, it's with the Klingon, not the Enterprise. Like, our Enterprise a stays back in time. So David is still on the Enterprise. And though we will not see him, Chekhov is left in command.
Jim:Okay.
T.C.:That's that that honors Antonio can not be no longer being with us, but keeps Chekhov alive in in Sure. In universe and gives him something rather cool that he's he's captaining the enterprise. And any anything we see in present time is through David's POV, if we go back at all. If we just Sure. If we just go with with, Kirk to the future and then it's him desperately trying to get back to his son, that's fine too.
T.C.:But I I yeah. I think that
Jim:I think that, the the latter, the, I think makes for a cleaner movie
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:Than than hopping back in the past. I
T.C.:agree. I agree. Yes. Those see those are cutting room floor scenes. Yeah.
T.C.:They shot a lot more scenes with young David. They're okay. Do does what's the final like, does Kirk finally make the decision to go back because David's dead? Like, whatever the case may be, the loss of his father, David led, like, a bad life, and
Jim:and he's Oh, maybe.
T.C.:And he's like, I need to go back. David died without me. Well, people die, sir. Captain, you don't know you being back there won't stop him from joining Star Fleet, from experiencing that war or anything. It's like, I don't care.
T.C.:I'm going back, and I'm gonna I I need to go back. That I think that's motivation enough and and deals with
Jim:the consequences of choosing
T.C.:one life over multitudes. Mhmm. Kind of
Jim:Does Q being kind of, cavalier and and like, no. Don't worry about it. Didn't you didn't erase timelines. Does that undercut?
T.C.:I'm well, I like Q being involved as it is right now. He doesn't need to be. I don't I don't see it necessarily a reason why Q needs to be involved unless he's the
Jim:To me, that that's that he's the cause of the anomaly.
T.C.:Okay.
Jim:He he he is the impetus for the whole thing.
T.C.:Is it is it kinda like in a a demolition man when Wesley Snipes wakes up and he's been programmed to be like a super terrorist? There was the the actual puppet master orchestrated the whole thing.
Jim:Yeah. Yep. Yep. That's a weird weird weird, reference for you to
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:To do. But yeah.
T.C.:Q's bad. He's so puckishly bad. He is. Yeah. He
Jim:he always has been. He's just
T.C.:mixing it up. I know. He's one the best villains. Yeah. He might be the best villain.
T.C.:Okay. I I like this. And I I think what's fun is pitting Kirk against Picard, and neither of them are bad. They're they're antagonistic to each other.
Jim:From their own perspective, they're from Picard's perspective He's absolutely being incredibly selfish.
T.C.:Yes. Yeah. He's he's a villain Yeah. To Picard. Kirk, you were you I I
Jim:He's he's doing exactly what Nero did. He that could be dialogue. You can call him out on it.
T.C.:Yeah. You are doing what the
Jim:the The the man who killed your father put punches. Oh, shit.
T.C.:Kirk punching Picard? Yes, please. Hell, yeah. The 2 completely different philosophies of how they captain, because Picard is a company man. Picard is Picard is objectively the best, the Picard series aside.
T.C.:Picard, through through TNG as a series, is the best starfleet captain because he is so by the book, and and and bends the rules when absolutely necessary. Whereas Kirk was at the forefront of developing star fleet. So he was such a cowboy that a lot of the things he was choosing to do made the rules that they had to follow. Sure. Putting those 2 against each other could be a lot of fun.
T.C.:And then even if in the end, Picard decides to let Kirk go to to finally see it his way, Some some some sort of confrontation where it's the 2 of them and our Klingon enemy. And Kirk even being that going so far as like, I'm not killing this guy. I'm bringing him back. That could be something too. To not kill the Klingon, to, like, drag his ass back to the the 23rd century and face justice.
Jim:For sanctions. Yeah. Or no. That's not what it'd be. Sanctions is what you put on a Yeah.
Jim:Alright. Whatever. Yeah. For punishment. For crimes.
Jim:For crimes. For space crimes.
T.C.:Space crimes. Is and and on that trip back when they finally have, like, how like, that's that's the question. They slingshot around the sun,
Jim:so I'm trying to
T.C.:calm style.
Jim:My thought is they go back through the time tunnel. Like, they do something to open it up. Maybe even one of the the subplots is Spock trying to suss out q from, like, the there's this background radiation this whole time or actually maybe that's that's for Scotty. There's this background radiation. It's it's moving.
Jim:It's moving in a per particular peculiar way.
T.C.:The the person who's who would who we've never seen interact with Q who would have the most interesting confrontation with them is Spock. Sure. And and having some echoes to Star Trek the Motion Picture where Spock speaks to V'Ger. Like, it there's there's some fun echoes of callbacks in there, I think. Sure.
T.C.:To have Spock be the one who susses out Q. I mean, like, you. You're you're one of the most fun ones. I've been avoiding you, if I'm being honest. The thinking of the other characters now.
T.C.:So the, Uhura, Scotty.
Jim:Bones.
T.C.:Bones, and Sulu.
Jim:And, I really wanna include, I don't remember his name, Deep Roy.
T.C.:Of course. He's he's he's, he's,
Jim:he's, he's Scotty's
T.C.:buddy. Yeah. Get down. Get down from there. Sofia Patel was Jalen in in the, Star Trek Beyond, and they suggested that she was gonna join and whatnot.
T.C.:But I don't I don't think we need to have her return. Deep Roy plays keen Teenser. Teenser? Teenser. Yeah.
T.C.:His little weird eyes. Having a okay. So there's I think we have our main main plot pretty nicely worked out. The question of what to do with Sulu, who has a family back home as well. They established that in Beyond that he's married with a kid.
T.C.:Scottie Uhuru Uhura. Does anyone stay?
Jim:Because In the in the future?
T.C.:In the future. Because there there is something to be had there with, with a character arc to be had. Like, is if, if McCoy stays or if he feel if if, Spock feels his place is to stay.
Jim:I don't think Spock should stay.
T.C.:Yeah. It's not logical. Uhuru. Uhuru. Uhura.
T.C.:Uhura. Yeah. I'll just call her Nyota.
Jim:Okay.
T.C.:Zoe still so Jesus Christ.
Jim:I think you're done with names for the
T.C.:I'm done with names. Does the girl stay?
Jim:Because if she Based on personalities, based on I feel like bones would like, I can I can see him saying I, I time traveled once? That's more than enough for me.
T.C.:Enough. Yeah. Giving him a well, to complete the circle Mhmm. When bones joined starfleet, he did it because his wife left him and all she left him was his bones. If he falls in love in some capacity, him and Wes him, you know, doctor Crusher's a widow.
T.C.:Just saying.
Jim:How dare you take that ship away from Picard?
T.C.:You know, imagine Karl Urban just going out of love triangle.
Jim:Wait. So in our in the Kelvin verse, is Bones McCoy Wesley Crusher's dad?
T.C.:Yeah. No. Jack Crusher is still can still be a character. I like I think there's some there's something interesting in that of Bones. We could create an arc for him of why he would stay behind, even if it's a matter of someone has to, like, someone has to sacrifice themselves to stay behind.
T.C.:Like, I'll keep this
Jim:thing
T.C.:Scotty? Scotty makes sense too. And if and if anyone in Star Trek in that cast is willingly gonna stick around to make cameos and everything else, it's Simon Pitt.
Jim:It is gonna be Simon
T.C.:Pitt. Yeah. Scotty, the one that needs to stay behind. You're right. Here
Jim:we go.
T.C.:You got it. You got it. Him and Jordy LaForge just becoming friends and and and and that that happened on DNG anyway. So okay. Yeah.
T.C.:So Scotty stays behind, Uhura, and Bones.
Jim:Well, so based on what was set up in the previous movies, Uhura wouldn't stay behind because well, basically, are you wanting to break up the couple of
T.C.:They broke up
Jim:in Spock and
T.C.:Spock and Uhura broke up in
Jim:Did they? I don't remember. Yeah.
T.C.:They're they're done. They're Oh, okay. I there's a whole deep subtextual conversation I can have about that, but I'm not gonna they broke up. They're not a thing anymore. Gotcha.
T.C.:I'd like to see for the legacy of Uhura as a character to see her become a captain. Like, I'm not saying it needs to happen in this movie, but it could be suggested. Like, her
Jim:For sure.
T.C.:Her her destiny even could be if Kirk's discussing leaving
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:And he's been given the task of when this mission is over, you can pick your you can pick your, your successor. It could be that's who he's who he believes is right. So putting her in a leadership role that proves she's the one who should be the captain of the enterprise going forward. I think there's some fun to be had. Sure.
T.C.:Don't don't do don't make a Michael burn him. Burn. Don't burn Michael by saying O'Hara would be a better captain than her.
Jim:Well, I mean, now you said it.
T.C.:I didn't. I didn't. I held myself back from
Jim:doing it. Okay.
T.C.:There there there's something in that, I think, having her having because something that always strikes me when I go back and watch the original movies Mhmm. Is pretty much all of Michelle Nichols' lines are, can you hear me? Hello? Hello? I can't get through.
T.C.:Hello? This is the enterprise. Hello? It's like, get this woman more to do. For Christ's sake, she's an icon.
Jim:She did a fan dance. Hell, yeah.
T.C.:Hell, yeah. That can be suggested of Zoe Saldan. Like, do a fan dance and distract him. Yeah. I really like the idea of of Spock.
T.C.:His subplot is finding q Okay. To be like, he's the one who created the anomaly in the first place. Right? So do they have
Jim:One might even say he is the anomaly.
T.C.:Do they have to convince q to send them back then? Is that the final like, in the final battle sequence?
Jim:Well, what it is is I think Spock convinces or, like like, maybe it's almost like a real of the sphinx kinda thing. Like, he finally gets Q to show up and he's like, well, convince me to let you go back or something like that.
T.C.:While the while the ships are fighting and
Jim:Oh, maybe. Yeah.
T.C.:Having, and this is a throwback to voyage home and search for Spock where they use a Klingon battle cruiser. Having Kirk fighting the enterprise in an ancient, a 100 year old Klingon battle cruiser, like Kirk versus Picard. Sure. Because what I I don't want to send enterprise to the future. I'm gonna leave that behind.
T.C.:Yeah. Just because we so that we can't blow it up. You I don't wanna blow this shit up ship up. It's not fun. It doesn't mean anything.
T.C.:Here we go. There's gonna build another one. Plenty of letters in the alphabet.
Jim:There are. I mean, if we can't kill characters, let's at least blow ships up.
T.C.:Fine. We'll blow up the t. We're gonna blow up a card's enterprise when he's just getting started.
Jim:Well, no. No. If we're gonna do this story, we can do the the he can already be in it. He he can already be we can do the full next generation crew
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:Unlike what the demand
T.C.:It said we didn't have to. Wait. No. No. No.
T.C.:Actually, let me look at the demand specific. Don't just
Jim:jump to it.
T.C.:Do not just bring together the TNG characters and do that all over again. We're not.
Jim:I
T.C.:I what I what I'm reading here is that it's just don't do what the 2009 Star Trek did. We're not doing that. Yeah. We are jumping forward with our crew. We're doing it a little bit because Kurt not not exactly.
Jim:It's it's we're doing it but we're making, like, that entire crew like, a a guest appearance.
T.C.:No, though. They're central to the they are, like, the main antagonist superhero.
Jim:But what I mean is, like, it's not like this is the launch of Star Trek The Next Generation, Kelvin verse. It's just it's it's a special one off episode. Yeah. The idea we come back well, although, I guess it's just not an introduction to them. Right?
Jim:It it's suggesting they've already been
T.C.:a crew.
Jim:Yeah. Yeah.
T.C.:I think that's great. I think Okay. And and funny enough, the first experience of, Encounter at Farpoint, the very first episode of TNG is a Q episode. So in including Q in this and having the appearance of TNG characters, a lot of echoes happening here that I think are are fun, and not obnoxious. Okay.
T.C.:I don't think they're obnoxious. Someone listening might think this is obnoxious. But
Jim:so, I re I'm thinking I don't think it was specifically set in the demand to craft a movie to allow the franchise to necessarily continue.
T.C.:Yeah. It's just because
Jim:I think what we're doing, we're kind of having our cake and eating it too. To me, I'm That's how cake works. I'm approaching it like it's not how Yeah. I'm approaching it like this is the final one. Mhmm.
Jim:But also, we I I feel like we've planted enough seeds that you could continue.
T.C.:The studio demands that Chris Pine's captain Kirk take on a final voyage, but with this idea in mind, continue the Kelvin verse beyond Kirk. That's the that that is the demand.
Jim:See, that sounds like continue in the age they're in. Do a Saved by the Bell, the college years kind of thing. The the well, no. Even that that would be the next generation. I don't know.
Jim:It just sounds like continue continue in that that age.
T.C.:It we could. I I this would leave the door open if Paramount was like, you know what? This worked. Let's get this group of TNG characters together and keep doing these movies. We have Skipping the Origin, which I feel is becoming more and more popular Mhmm.
T.C.:To just say, like, if this was a success, that Paramount would say, cool. We have our actors already. Let's let's do more movies with them. But if not, having having an epilogue where we get to see one final moment with Picard and his crew, if maybe, I don't know, I'm I've ever had Sure.
Jim:I think maybe another thing I'd I'd like to do to to I wouldn't how how to how to do it because you're showing these characters for the first time. So how do you show them not being the sort of official ones? Right? Like, I'd because because Kirk and company are gonna go back in time Right. And the timeline will be changed.
Jim:Mhmm. It'll be as as I want Q to suggest. It's not erased. It's just nudged. Mhmm.
Jim:So whatever they witnessed in the future, that's not actually how it is.
T.C.:Right. But we could with the line of it's not erased. It's nudged.
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:However, Kirk ends with his final farewell right off into the sunset moment.
Jim:That's actually that's actually a reason that no one should stay in the future because this whole thing was a cute cute, experiment anyway.
T.C.:We can we can split hairs on that. And Okay. I I like the idea of Scottie staying but
Jim:Well, we all there there would be a really fun gag of Scottie and Kienzer Mhmm. Just just pocketing as much technology as
T.C.:they can. Kienzer's just stealing shit the whole time. Scott's like, hey. Hey. Hey.
T.C.:That's a
Jim:good idea.
T.C.:It's like more subtle.
Jim:More subtle. Hey. But then on the way back because they're being sent back in time by a sentient being Mhmm. All the stuff on them just evap like like dissipates because because Q because q knows better.
T.C.:Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That does create an argument of why they shouldn't stay. But to my point of showing the nudge of having Kirk in his final moments, whether it's a, like, a photo finish kind of moment where we see the the characters altogether last time with the what could essentially be a photo, and they go off in the sunset with a fade out and a fade in back in the Kirk's sorry.
T.C.:Piccard's, office ready room, and there's, some sort of plaque or image or hologram or, item that shows what was that he is still the captain of the ship. There was some nudge in the timeline, but essentially, everyone lived happily ever after. They didn't erase the timeline.
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:There's some minor change. And even even even allowing a character to have consciousness of, like, Captain, are you okay? Yeah. So oh, oh, like, whatever the moment is just before Kirk arrives, if we replay that moment and it doesn't occur like it did in the movie and having someone having
Jim:a Sure.
T.C.:Picard having a moment of I just had a just had a strange feeling. What are sensor readings showing us? Nothing. The anomaly's gone, sir. Alright.
T.C.:Let's move on.
Jim:That's not that's not bad. I was thinking if there was something just different enough in this that that way if Paramount wanted to start a TNG Mhmm. They actually could do an origin movie of of, the first day everyone gets on the Enterprise d or whatever Yeah. And it's because it would it would be different enough. These characters haven't met each other and the history is now different.
Jim:Mhmm. Even oh, we gotta make one movie before we make another, but now now I'm already the the Kelvin versus TNG begins with David who followed in his father's footsteps and, joined Star Fleet because he was there to raise him
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:Who is now an older man him himself. Mhmm. He's he's giving a speech about how the the d is open for business. That's a terrible phrase.
T.C.:Oh my god. What's the the weird tagline on the poster for the TNG show? The d is open for business. They've gotten so edgy over at Paramount with the Star Trek franchise. Listen, Kurtzman, don't take notes from us.
T.C.:Please don't.
Jim:Just hire us to do it. Yep.
T.C.:Kurt could even make an album.
Jim:I'll make a Star Trek where that's the tagline.
T.C.:The d is open for business. Lower deck should totally do that. Yeah. Loving myself and very appropriately so. I think Kirk could even have a moment of saying, I I wanna go back and be with my son.
T.C.:I don't want I I will do everything in my power to ensure that this timeline is sustained, but I'm going home. And maybe not that those words exactly, but but, you know, the nudge I think that Q is suggesting is is more than enough to say to say these characters still exist. And if we succeed in this and Paramount wants to do, we'll solve that problem later. It's Kirk getting back and and embracing his son and just saying I'm I'm I'm oh my god.
Jim:Daddy's here.
T.C.:Come on.
Jim:It's too late. I'm gone.
T.C.:But getting getting a farewell to these characters of, yeah, giving Uhura the enterprise, I think, would be really cool. Sure. Keeping Bones Bones having some new, like, medical ideas that he borrowed from the future. Sure. One of my favorite characters in Star Trek, in all of Star Trek is the doctor.
T.C.:He's the holographic medical, the medical doc the holographic
Jim:From from Voyager. From Voyager.
T.C.:Yeah. And they kinetically used him in first contact when
Jim:Okay.
T.C.:The enterprise and crusher's like, I swear I never used one of these before. Activate the emergency medical doc medical, and then he appears and he's like, what seems to be your area? Bones being, like, the forerunner for that is I I don't know. It's it's some sort of fun to be had, and everybody saw something in the future and it's like Scottie and Bones and, like, you know, they had some good ideas. I I kinda took notes.
T.C.:Or or if, like, Scottie tried to steal everything
Jim:Yeah.
T.C.:And failed, but Bones managed to, like
Jim:To get something?
T.C.:To get something. It was like, hey, Scotty. I got away with some stuff. And then him and him and Bones were like, what?
Jim:Maybe. Maybe.
T.C.:Yeah. Giving them a a a ride off into the sunset. Sure. And our Klingon facing justice. Like, not killing not killing our villain, not blowing up the ship, I'm happy.
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:And we
T.C.:didn't kill and if we don't kill any of our main characters too, I think that's, it's something Guardians of Galaxy 3 did so well. I thought every single one of those characters was gonna die at some point in that movie.
Jim:Yeah.
T.C.:The tension worrying about all these actors and characters really mattered. And I think there's there's probably a way to pull that off in this as well. Mhmm. Those listening to the episode now know we're not killing anyone, but in the execution of it
Jim:and screenplay. In the watching of a movie?
T.C.:Yeah. Yeah. To sit there and go like, oh my god. Who's gonna make it back? Who's gonna make it out of this?
T.C.:Especially if Kirk is being so reckless to be like, I don't care about this timeline. I'm getting home.
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:I am I'm I'm getting home.
Jim:I don't
T.C.:care of the logic. I don't care of the consequences. The right thing to do is this. Mhmm. And then having Nero be thrown in his face and all that is is cool.
T.C.:Yes. We did it, Jim.
Jim:I think we did.
T.C.:Yeah. Alright. Is there is there any, like, hanging things here that we wanna, like, address? I I'll go back and look at the demand itself. Likelihood of filing slumber and slumber, stranger ones, Picard, etcetera.
Jim:I don't I don't think so.
T.C.:Story worth putting on the big screen, the studio demands Chris Pine, Captain Kirk take a final voyage if they did continue to count on versus beyond Kirk. We kinda created a a way to do that, to not just bring the t and g characters together, do it all over again before I was in Brett Spine in Justice League. Yeah. That I think that idea was a good jumping off point, Nicole. Thank you for that.
T.C.:I think the idea of of finding a way to bring the characters together
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:In the original script that eventually became generations before they made that, the idea was that Picard would, go to the holodeck and talk to Kirk Mhmm. To just bring a bring up the original, bridge
Jim:Yeah.
T.C.:And talk to Kirk there, and and they would disagree. Like, that was just the idea. It wasn't gonna actually be using the nexus to get Kirk to the future. I wanna, I don't know. I generations, I it's it's I hold a spot in my heart for it because I did see it in theaters as a kid, but it's not great.
T.C.:It's it's a little messy of a movie.
Jim:I I like what we put together. Mhmm. If we wanted to do more of a Justice League type thing
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:I think it would be more what you were initially starting to pitch. Mhmm. I still think we fling Kirk into the future because all the other Star Treks are already in that time period. Yeah. And we do something there and they are combating it's right?
Jim:So then we get Kirk, we get we get all the captains. We get Kirk, we get Picard, we get Cisco, we get Janeway. Janeway. Yeah. And it and the bad guy is Q.
Jim:Like, it's it's Q playing. Right? Like like, time god.
T.C.:He's literally bringing them all together.
Jim:Yeah. And he and he's he's just playing around, and these are their lives. And, so they have to somehow defeat this omnipotent, being.
T.C.:What does God need with a starship?
Jim:I love that line.
T.C.:I love it. People can stick their nose up at that. Yeah. That movie is good. I don't care.
T.C.:That movie is bad, but it's also great. It's got some great stuff in it. Whatever. Okay. I think we're gonna wrap it up here.
Jim:Okay. I
T.C.:think we've done it. Okay. I I I think this does it for this episode. Nicole, I'd love to know if we met your demand today. Those listening, how did we do?
T.C.:If you agree with what we did, disagree? If we missed something here's a call to action. Who are if you could put together your Justice League of 7 the 7 your 7 favorite Star Trek characters and put them on a ship for an adventure together, time and space doesn't matter, who are your 7? Go ahead and think about it, Jim, because I think we'll go into bonus territory and
Jim:and Okay.
T.C.:We'll do that ourselves. But, let us know. You can message us directly at studiodemandsit.com or on instagram at studiodemandsit. Find this episode's post if you wanna comment about it. And if you're not already a subscriber, then you can do so on the pod catcher of your choice.
T.C.:And if you feel like giving us a little review, you can do that in your podcast help help app and that helps us get the show out there in the algorithm. You can also find us on YouTube and TikTok where we post video contact including material not heard on the show. We are gonna make an effort this season to have at least a commentary track a month, And I've said it lies.
Jim:You've said it lies.
T.C.:Now I've gotta do it. We've gotta do it.
Jim:Yep. Yep.
T.C.:So keep an eye
Jim:on this. Fine. I'll talk into a microphone.
T.C.:Jim, you've got something to say.
Jim:Oh, god. I don't. Oh, man. It's been so long since I did this. Come hang out on Discord, and Reddit.
Jim:Those are places we have. On on Reddit it's r r slash studio demands it. And on Discord, you can get there. You can get the invite to the Discord on our web page, the studio demands it.com. And at the top, there is a link to the Discord.
T.C.:Mhmm. And that's a great place to, Patreon's good for this too. Some of you who've messaged me directly over the seasons, Reddit, Discord, those are great places to start a communal conversation about your pitches for the demands as they are or demands that you'd like to see done on the show.
Jim:Or even telling us how you would do
T.C.:it. Yeah. Exactly. Massive thank you to 65 Media, for everything they do. Please check out all the other 65 shows, including another Zelda podcast and, the an artificial podcast, which is a lot of fun, with David talking to a robot.
T.C.:And as mentioned, we have a Patreon for a couple bucks a month. You can get episodes early as well as extended double length episodes where we have further conversations off mic. Well, they're on mic, but off episode. The commentary tracks as mentioned. And you can also subscribe for free if you just wanna show some love.
T.C.:And, Jim, unless you have anything else to say, season 6 is off and flying, baby. Yeah. Who's your favorite Star Trek captain?
Jim:I think it's Cisco.
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:But I never watched all of Deep Space 9. I remember I watched, like, the first 2, 3 seasons.
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:And then I life happened. And then I came back and I checked back in and I wasn't so crazy about what was happening. Mhmm. So I he he might fall off. Yeah.
Jim:Other otherwise. Mhmm. So the I I guess that's provisional. I I don't know if that's right. Picard.
Jim:Picard is is the
T.C.:It's hard to pick because they they are all great. Archer, Janeway, Cisco, Kirk, Picard, and Pine. Mhmm. And every captain that's Pike. Pike.
T.C.:Oh my god.
Jim:Yeah. Pike.
T.C.:Pike. Freaking best hair in the universe. Well, Picard was baldly going nowhere where where no one had gone before. Captain Pike is just ripping it up with Anson Mount's beautiful locks.
Jim:Yep.
T.C.:Alright. That's it for this episode. And we are we're yep. Season 6. Here we go.
T.C.:We will be back again to challenge ourselves to improve the world of cinema. IMTZ.
Jim:You are and I am Jim. Yes. You are. That was weird. I'm Jim.
T.C.:You made it weird.
Jim:I did make it weird. Do you do you wanna not do a weird, this season? No.
T.C.:This is how
Jim:it goes. The end. This is how we end it.