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In this episode, Elizabeth Stevenson and Ashley Oldham of New Direction Family Law discuss the crucial process of selecting the right divorce attorney. They cover essential steps such as the importance of initial consultations, building a trust-based relationship, understanding retainer fees, and ensuring transparent communication. They also emphasize the value of honesty and document organization in achieving the best legal outcomes. This episode provides valuable insights for anyone navigating the complexities of divorce.
00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:31 Choosing the Right Attorney
01:30 Initial Consultation Importance
01:51 Client Intake Process
04:33 Confidentiality and Trust
09:40 Financial Considerations
11:16 Document Organization
15:37 Final Thoughts and Contact Information
Creators and Guests
Host
Cameron Heinsohn
Marketing & Business Development Manager
Host
Guest
What is Ex-it Strategy?
Your no bullsh$t guide to divorce with experienced attorneys from New Direction Family Law and guests and professionals who have been there. Unfiltered discussions to help you move from victim to victorious and from bitter to better.
72 Exit Strategy
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[00:00:00]
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: Hi everyone, it's Elizabeth Stevenson, a partner at New Direction Family Law, and I have one of my, our other law partners here, Ashley Ham with us today.
Hi, thanks for having me.
Cam: Sure. Anytime. And Cam? Yes, I'm back again. Um, I think today we're gonna kind of talk about some stuff that falls a little bit more on the front end, you know, new client mm-hmm. Side of things where I live usually. Um, and talking about how to choose the right attorney right for you, like, and what all goes into that.
So, um, I know, you know, at least for me. When we get phone calls and um, when our intake specialist is working with folks, we find that a lot of times people have never done this before, right? Like, this is the first [00:01:00] time they've ever gone through a divorce, you know, most of the time. And they're just so nervous, right.
About making a wrong decision or going about things the wrong way. It's a big decision.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: It is, yeah. To, you know, I think the. Just overall, I think it's a, it becomes almost a personal relationship, so it's not, you gotta build that trust and you have to have. Um, you have to be able to work well and interact well with, with whoever your attorney is.
I mean, it's just a, a lot of it's about style, I think sometimes.
Ashley L. Oldham: Yeah. Just one of the reasons why the initial consultation is so important, I think. Right. You know, that's, you know, your full hour to sit down and really make sure that that attorney has the right experience for what you need and also that you're a good fit, um, that you have a rapport and that, that both parties feel comfortable.
Cam: Yeah. I definitely think, you know, consultation with an attorney is a great place to start and not, you know. Right. Just with whoever answers the phone.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: Right. So what ha So you are on the front. I always do an analogy that's like a restaurant. You're the, you're the front end of the house. Mm-hmm. You take the reservations, you get people in the door.
So when [00:02:00] people call, what happens?
Cam: Yeah. So I mean, we certainly, you know, typical, you know, standard customer service things, super warm greeting. Making sure that the caller on the other end of the line has got a little bit of peace of mind about, um, you know, that we, they can trust us with the details that we're gonna, you know, repeat back the email address.
Little things like that to show that we have. We wanna make sure that we have everything exactly right. And we also wanna make sure that they know the next steps and that they're very clear because it's a lot, it's very confusing if you're talking to other people outside of your attorney's office about this process.
Everybody's got an opinion, right? And um, or recommendations. And really just, it's a different scenario for everybody. And so when they call, we just wanna make sure that they. Feel confident in, we're going to walk them through the next steps and when they get to meet with their attorney, that they're gonna get their questions answered, at least to the [00:03:00] extent of what's most pressing for them, and, um, understanding the attorney that they're working with, if it's going to be the right fit for them.
Right. You know, personality wise and things like that. So, right.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: Do you know, it's hard because do you get asked person, you know, on the phone, I've never met you. I don't. And Alyssa is our intake specialist. Is she gonna ask me like, really personal questions?
Cam: I think it depends on what you consider a personal question.
We don't dive deep into finances or anything like that on the call. We just wanna hear mostly from you what your. Um, what your pain points are, what your goal is behind working with an attorney so that we can make sure that we can, um, appropriately assist you. And we also wanna make sure, or we also just kind of wanna check, you know, some technical details, right?
That. You're in a county that we practice in and some things like that, so, right. Yeah. It doesn't get too personal. People
Ashley L. Oldham: get concerned, um, because of all the names we ask for. Right, right. We're gonna ask for your full name. We're [00:04:00] gonna ask for your spouse's name, if there's a third party involved, if there's been an affair of some type.
For example, we ask that person's name, not because we're, we're gonna go look you up on Facebook or social media or, or, or spread your name around. Right. But it's. Because it's a requirement of the state bar. Mm-hmm. Um, and we have very strict requirements that we have to follow to keep our licenses, um, and to make sure we're doing the right thing and not meeting with you and also meeting with your spouse.
Right. Right. Um, so, so, you know, it's not 'cause we wanna get too much into your business, but it's because what we have to do to do the job. Yeah. Make sure there's no conflict
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: of interest. Right. And I actually had in one of my initial consults today, and people ask me this quite often. You know, if my, you know, ex or soon to be ex calls up here, you know, or do I need to tell them that I've come to see?
It's like, oh, absolutely not. You know? Even if they do call up here, we're just gonna say, sorry, unable to help. I'm not gonna say why never say you were here. Yep. You know, that's a, that's that's potential between you and me. So, you know, I wanna make sure that people understand that what you tell us stays with us.
But in [00:05:00] an initial consultation, I will always say, if you're not honest with us, we can't help you. Right. And, and you won't tell us anything that we have not heard before. I can guarantee you that. Correct, yes.
Cam: And, you know, coming into family law from another law area, my first, you know, 60 days or so, I was like, oh, really?
Really? You know, constantly getting new information and approached with different scenarios and stuff like that. But, um, as time has gone on, it's. Yeah.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: Right. And it's per, you know, and we hear it, but it is, but it is the first time that they're experienced, of course. Seen it. So it is a big pain point for them.
But, you know, between all of us, what have we got? I got 25 years of experience. What do you got actually? 15?
Cam: Yeah. You know, I did the math the other day. Whole attorney team Uhhuh, it's just a bit over 80 years. Wow. Combined. Combined.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: So, so. We've, we've heard it. We've been there. We've had that scenario, and we can help you, if you will, share with us all the, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
[00:06:00] You know, it's not, it's, it's important for us to hear it, to give you good legal advice.
Cam: Yeah, I think so too. Um, and you know, I think I heard, I sat in on a consultation with you and I heard you tell somebody, you know, as you think of these one-off little things, um. Write 'em down because you know, the consultation's about an hour and you know, certainly once we engage with someone, we're kind of on the clock, you know, for hourly billing and it's hard to remember lots of little details.
Um, you know, once you're. Sitting in an attorney's office and across the table from them, so no pressure. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so that's definitely helpful for us at least, you know, jot down the details as you think of them as, or questions as you think of them to ask the attorney. Right. And I
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: say, come in with questions.
Mm-hmm. You know, I always ask folks, you know, we'll walk through sort of what we're doing. Then it's like, what else can I answer for you today? Mm-hmm. And I love it when people have a list of questions. I agree. Yeah,
Ashley L. Oldham: definitely. We're done. Um, it also helps streamline the process even, you know, later on, once we get [00:07:00] past the consultation, after they retain, um, you know, because we do do hourly billing, it's gonna cost you a whole lot more if you send 10 separate emails with 10 separate questions, right?
Try to jo your, jot your questions down, jot your issues down, and let's set a meeting or, you know, let's set a phone call or have one succinct email. Um, we wanna streamline it as much, you know, as much as you do, right?
Cam: Yeah.
Ashley L. Oldham: And so in
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: an, in an initial consultation, once you talk to, um, Melissa or Cam, they'll set you time to come and, and talk to one of our attorneys.
Mm-hmm. And then I think we all have a different style of how that is. I sort of generally start introduce myself, but then I want some backstory. I wanna know, not only let's start here today. Mm-hmm. Back me up and tell me tell me about your marriage. Tell me about the parenting responsibilities and then.
How we got here today. And sometimes that's first time people have really talked about it. Or if we're talking about an abusive marriage or a nurse system, it's, so, it's overwhelming sometimes for people to talk about it. Yeah. So you sort of have to, to, to take the pace of the person that's in the, the room, you know, and, and [00:08:00] help them sort of walk through that.
Cam: Yeah, absolutely. And I've, I think, you know. One question that always tends to come up on an initial call is, um, well, I heard I was recommended to this attorney, or that attorney and I read about this person online. Can you tell me, you know, what they're like? And so we do our best on, in the intake side of things when we can to try to match.
You know, if somebody's really direct with me and says, listen, I need, you know, somebody that's gonna just give it to me straight and. You know, I don't need my handheld and I just, you know, need the facts because I'm trying to compartmentalize here. That's right. Then, you know, we try to get 'em with someone who can do that for them, so.
Right, right. And then some people are very emotional and need the extra handholding. Or want the extra handholding. Right. And, and they may start out
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: very factual, but as, as time goes on, they may need some more handheld. Yeah. So I think we're all sort of versed in. That this is really hard for people.
Mm-hmm. And that, um, you know, a lot of times we sit [00:09:00] in people's pain every day, you know, and, and, and that's just our job. And, and we'll take it, you know, and if it takes it off of you, we're happy to do that. And then, but you gotta be healthy too, to help us work through this process. Yeah. Right.
Cam: That's where the experience comes into play, I think.
You know, you said we gotta have
Ashley L. Oldham: all the information. Right, right, right. You know, you gotta be honest with us. And it may seem like we ask a lot of questions Yeah. In that initial appointment. But it's because not divorce isn't one side fits all right? Every case is different. You know, your friends, your sister's, whoever's divorced, Google's divorce is gonna look a lot different than yours, attorney Google.
Right. And we cannot give you the best answers for your situation if we don't have all the information.
Cam: Yeah. Right. I, um, I think one of the really common, you know, questions that comes up a lot, you know, when you're trying to choose an attorney and there's just a lot of uncertainty out there is, is financial.
Like, people want to know what is this gonna cost me so I can start preparing. They're like, want a number so that they can, you know, [00:10:00] kind of have something concrete to hang onto. And so we explain retainer fees a lot over and over, you know? Right. And kind of how that works.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: My general response is, um, do you know what attorneys on the other side?
Mm-hmm. And it depends on how cooperative your ex is, right? I mean, literally that's what, what it will on and how organized you are, you are. That's true. You know, am I gonna
Ashley L. Oldham: have to chase you down for documents? Are you gonna, you know, complain about producing six months, 12 months worth of your bank statements to the point that, you know, we have to send multiple emails, but phone calls about it.
Are you gonna produce 'em to me? You produce 'em to me in an organized manner, or am I gonna have to sit. Through paper copies and scan 'em in. Right. I
Cam: feel like we could do a whole nother episode on how to keep your bill down.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: Yes.
Cam: Well, I think that's a great, I
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: mean, I think, put me on that one. Yeah. And I think we should, you know, because I, I had somebody come in the other day with the big.
A case full of stuff, you know? Mm. But, but she wasn't in a place where she could do it. Yeah. It's, you know, early, so it was so overwhelming that she couldn't do it. So, you know, we're happy to do it for you, but it is [00:11:00] gonna cost you more for us to sit and do that. For sure.
Ashley L. Oldham: Yeah. My very first cases right out of law school with my first Ed case, the.
Guy brought in a trash bag full of unopened mail statements. I just dumped it all on, on my desk.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: That's
Ashley L. Oldham: where
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: we
Ashley L. Oldham: started.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: Yeah. But, but if you do have, especially if they're financial, um, support or, um, property division. It is gonna be document heavy at the beginning, even if you're not litigate. Like if you, let's say you file a complaint.
We we're starting a lawsuit for property division, alimony and child support. Mm-hmm. Our local rules provide that you have to provide certain documents to us and we have to provide 'em to the other side and vice versa. Mm-hmm. There are forms you have to fill out, so there is a lot of work that goes into the front end.
And, and I, I have, we all have a paralegal, but quite frankly, I want to, I need to look through your bank statements. I need to look through your credit card statements. That, that gives me a feel of what's happening. So it's just gonna be, I. If we quote you a retainer of $10,000, [00:12:00] $5,000, that doesn't mean that's what the case is gonna cost.
Mm-hmm. That means that's gonna get our up and running, get our feet on the ground, and get us a place where maybe we can sit down and do a deep dive and say, here's where we think we are.
Cam: Yeah.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: Here's how the property should be divided. Here's how much we think you should have for support.
[00:13:00] , back to your point, like the more honest, the person across the table from us or y'all.
Cam: Is the better, the more accurate we can be on this is how long things are gonna take or you know what not exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Or we may have to do some depositions
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: or we have to send out subpoenas or something like that. Mm-hmm. Or you know, you're sitting with me, you're the dependent spouse. We're talking about alimony.
We spent months and then I've had this happen two months. I need to tell you something. You know that I've had, that I, that I had sex, you know, I had sex outside my marriage. I had an affair. [00:14:00] Well, I'm sorry, then you were probably borrowed from, and we spent all this money trying to do support. Oh, shoot.
Yep.
Ashley L. Oldham: It's
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: happened
Ashley L. Oldham: to everyone happened to all of us. That's,
Cam: that's some shit. And that's some shit. That's,
Ashley L. Oldham: that's a hard thing to admit. Right. You know? Absolutely. No one you think no one else knows or you know, you're embarrassed it, you shouldn't be. But, but I can see where it's a hard thing. Talk about. I can,
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: but you know, that's gonna.
And that's time wasted that we could have focused on something else. And that, and I agree. That's why it's so important to just be honest Yeah. About it. Mm-hmm. We're in no judgment zone, believe me. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. We've.
Cam: Here quite a bit. Not gonna surprise us. Yeah.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: Other things for an initial consultation, if you have a separation agreement, if you have a prenup, if you have a postnup, if you have a court order, you, I can't give you legal advice if you're talking about modifying or changing those.
If I don't have those documents
Cam: right in front
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: of me, you know, and. I'm in the middle of a case now where I have a separation agreement, but nobody can find a sign signed copy [00:15:00] of it because it's, I mean, it's 10 years old, 15 years old. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And so that makes it difficult, you know? But court orders, we can certainly help you track those down and sorts of things, but that's really important to have in a consultation.
Cam: Yeah, I mean, I think legal document organizing is something that. Everybody should, should do, you know, if you've signed a contract or been pre presented with a contract or, um, you know, custody agreements and stuff like that, you should have a spot to put those things right,
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: but some people don't. So that can hurt your case.
I can't file a breach of contract on. You are posting up because I don't have a signed contract. Yep. Right. So it's really important.
Cam: It's, um, so for the two of you personally, anything else that you feel like would be important to share about, you know, selecting an attorney or, or a firm to go with?
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: I don't, you know, I don't, I've had clients where it's just like anybody else.
You don't get along, you don't like everybody. Mm-hmm. And I have had clients where, what you [00:16:00] just didn't, you weren't, you weren't a, a fit, you know? And I want people to go get the best results that they can. So if I'm not, if, if we. If I'm not it, I'm absolutely okay with this is a, you know, we're here for you, but if it's not a hundred percent what you want, you, you're, you're the person that's, life is being changed, you know, and we are here to help and, and it, we don't take it personally, you know, and people will come to us from other attorneys.
So it's not, it really is sort of an ongoing, you know, sort of fluid relationship for people,
Ashley L. Oldham: I think. Mm-hmm. And just be prepared. Take it seriously. Think you know in advance what you want to know about the attorney. If you have questions about their experience, how long they've been practicing. Have they done military divorce before?
Correct, for example. Or, um, something to the more complex, um, deferred benefits, RSUs, stock options, that kind of thing. Um, but also what you wanna know and what, what questions are important to you, you know, what do you wanna talk about? Giving it some thought before you just walk into the office can really make sure that you get the most out of.
That initial consultation. Agreed. [00:17:00]
Cam: Yeah. I, um, I think, you know, to, to your point, what you were saying, you know, when folks call us and we might. Figure out during the initial call, before you ever meet with an attorney, that you need something different. Um, and so I think it is really important to us, to our firm, to be a resource even when it can't be us.
Right? Folks call us and you know, they're looking for. Assistance in the mountains or on the coast, and we don't practice in those counties. So we're gonna refer them to somebody that we trust that does. And you know, as a follow up from a consultation, if there's, you know, more resources that they need recommendations for therapists or, um, absolutely interact or whatever it may be, like, we're gonna tee them up and provide them with that information.
So I think, and so after then a
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: consultation, what happens, cam? What can they expect?
Cam: Yeah, so, um, when you schedule your consultation. As soon as we get off the phone, they get an email with a additional questions to [00:18:00] help you. Two, our attorneys prepare for the initial consultation and then there's a spot to upload the documents that you were talking about.
So whatever you think that the attorney needs to see, and we try to help guide them through that a little bit, um, you know, on the phone. So we give them examples like. You said your spouse is stepping out on you. Send text messages, send things like that, that you have, like any kind of documents and we'll start adding it to your file.
Um, it may not be relevant for the first conversation, but we're gonna get it in your file and we're gonna get it going. Right. And then at the consultation, we're always gonna, you know. The attorney is gonna help guide us based on how that conversation goes on, what kind of additional resources you might need if you're ready to move forward or need a little bit more time to consider things.
And we'll follow up from there. And we'll check in periodically. And if at any point it becomes too much, we just take a step back. And you know, we definitely believe in that transparent communication and making sure that everybody knows what's coming next. Right? And a lot of people when they [00:19:00] walk
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: in for an initial consultation, are not ready to.
Move forward. They're just gathering information. Mm-hmm. And knowledge. And we always encourage people to, to come and do that. Even if it's six months down the road and you call us back, we're still here, we're not going anywhere. Yeah. We're happy to help.
Cam: Yep. Exactly. I'm one of those people I like absorb information and then six weeks later I might come back and be like, Hey.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: Right. Exactly. So anything else? What else? Anything else that we can answer that you hear
Cam: daily on initial consultations? You know, I think we've touched on on most of it. I just think, you know, if there's any, one big takeaway I think that I have from this conversation, and I hope everybody else that's listening does also is, um, you know.
We know that you're overwhelmed. We know that everybody's a little bit different and has a little bit different scenario, and so let us know what you need, right? And we'll support you in that way, right? If you need time, if you need resources, whatever it is you need. We can help with that. What's the best way to get an initial consultation?
Oh, yeah. Um, so we have a form on our website. [00:20:00] If you're kind of doing some stuff at night and researching all hours of the day, you can fill that out. You can always call us during business hours, eight 30 to Friday, um, at the office. Um, and the telephone number for that should be in the comments. Right? Um, so you can click there, um, and you can also send us an email team at New Direction Family Law.
Cool. Great guys. Thanks. It's
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: wonderful. Good information.
Cam: Thank you. Thanks. All right.