494 (2015) to 502 (2019) to 513 (2020) on the MCAT! (ft. Jennifer Nagel)

Show Notes

Today we'd like to introduce Jennifer Nagel, an MCAT top scorer, and our guest in today's MCAT Master Interview! Although Jennifer always felt confident with the sciences, the MCAT is enough to make anyone second guess their skills. Having taken the exam once in 2015, where she scored a 494, and again in 2019, where she scored a 502, she could have let her dream end there, but she didn’t... Jennifer’s story with the exam is one of overcoming test anxiety, cultivating persistence, and determination... All of which led her to score 513 on the MCAT on her third attempt! 🙌

What is MCAT Mastery?

From plateauing MCAT scores, and having to retake, to breaking down days before exam day, all 70+ MedLife Mastery Mentors suffered the frustrations and disappointments that come with MCAT prep. Yet we ALL ended up getting 90+ percentile MCAT scores and are on our way to (or already in) med-school! Now we want to help you do the same!

If you're struggling with the MCAT, need some extra motivation, want to know how top scorers before you studied and learn their best strategies, this show is for you. You have what it takes to beat this exam. We’re here to make sure of that!

Hi everyone, I'm Monica and welcome back to another MCAT Master interview. In the series we basically just talk with MCAT top scorers so that we can find out what strategies help them the most in their process and hopefully inspire you as you're studying too. Even top scorers have struggled with the MCAT but they managed to increase their scores to competitive levels so we want to show you how they did it so that you can potentially do the same. And with that I'd like to introduce you to Jennifer Mabel. Jennifer, welcome to the series and thanks so much for joining us. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, we're so excited to hear from you and get started but before we do, just a little bit of background on Jennifer. Although Jennifer always felt confident with the sciences, the MCAT is enough to make anyone second guess their skills. Having taken the exam once in 2015 where she scored a 494 and again in 2019 where she scored a 502, she could have let her dream end there but she didn't. As she'll tell us more about, Jennifer's story with the exam is one of overcoming test anxiety to eventually score a 513 on her tester. It's really easy to put pressure on yourself especially with an exam like this so confidence and positivity can be so much more important to success than people think, which Jennifer will expand on in this interview. So in addition to that, in this interview we're also going to dive into understanding exactly how Jennifer studied, what she did to increase her score, how she scheduled her prep and what strategies she used for each section and so much more. So with that, let's go ahead and get started. So Jennifer, why don't you just start by telling our listeners a little bit about you outside of the MCAT. Yeah, so I actually hold a master's degree that I got in the last year from the University of British Columbia and I've also continued to work in research where I study resistance in breast cancer. Aside from that, I am also involved in the arts a lot of the time. So I play piano, guitar, I love to draw, I love to read. So I really do love making time for those things in my life outside of my studies. Yeah, definitely. It's so important to have hobbies, especially when the MCAT and med school can be so much pressure. So it's awesome that you have such a wide array of things to be interested in. In regard to your path and what you're doing now, what inspired you to want to become a doctor in the first place? I think it was a few different moments. The first thing that came to mind for me was when I was in grade five, I had to do this project on the organ system of the skin. And so I just remember getting so into this project and doing so much research and getting really excited about how complex and exciting your skin can be. And I think that was very much a starting point for me in terms of the sciences. After that, when I was in high school, I did a co-op program in our local hospital. And I spent about four months in the radiology department in various specialties and I just couldn't get enough of it. Some people say they hate going to the hospital. I get excited. And that's a good sign because that's where you'll be in the future. So yeah, definitely. So in regard to the MCAT, that's a huge thing that you have to do before getting into all the fun doctor or hospital stuff. So where were you when you first started prepping for the MCAT and what was your life like at that time? So this is my third time that I took the MCAT. So really this whole journey started again in April, May of this year. And actually, I had received my rejection letter from the university I had interviewed at last year, which was a huge blow. And I kind of recognized that it was my car score that was holding me back and that I would have to rewrite this thing if I really wanted a shot at moving forward with medical school. And so I kind of took some time to grieve the rejection. And then I really decided that I'm not the only one who struggles with this. Whatever I've been doing to this day just isn't working for me. And I need to find some tools that will help me get there. Right. And that's so important. So you mentioned that you are a retaker. You've taken the MCAT multiple times. The fun that you had when you were at the hospital was that the motivating factor for you? Like what kept you motivated and inspired you to keep retaking? You know, the first time I took it, I kind of let it beat me down a little bit. And I didn't look at it for another four years. And that was because I was finishing my undergrad. And I decided to go to grad school. And I did love grad school. And I have absolutely no regrets about it. But as I neared the end of grad school, the medical school started seeping into my mind again because it was something that I kind of put to the wayside because the MCAT really had gone so poorly for myself the first time. And so it was kind of thinking, OK, I can do this again. I can try again just because I had decided to not think about medical school for four years didn't mean that it wasn't what I wanted to do anymore. Yeah. And if it's just the MCAT holding you back from this thing that you want to do, you should definitely keep trying. So that's awesome that you were able to motivate yourself to keep going with the exam. So yeah. So for this third time around, and I guess the first two times as well, was there a score goal that you had in mind when you first started? If so, how did you come up with that goal? I think the first time I took this test, my score goal was a 505. And I don't really know why that was the goal back then. And I didn't really take any full-length practice tests. So I don't even know if I knew what that meant at the time. But last year, my score goal was a 508. And that score for me was a really well-rounded score. I wasn't going to necessarily stand out, but it wasn't going to hold me back by any means. And when I got the 502, it was really disheartening, because I had been doing fairly well on my full-lengths. So this year, when I started studying, I didn't really have a score goal in mind at the start. However, when I started doing my AMC full-length tests, and consistently I was getting around an average of 510, realizing that, oh, wow, I can break 510, that became my goal was a 510 in the end. Yeah, that's awesome that you were able to come up with that after you were already there. That's so rewarding. So with these multiple retakes of the exam, did you have a study schedule that you were using for the first round, and then you adjusted for the second time and the third time? And if so, what adjustments did you make, and how were those study schedules different? Well, I think the difference between my studying, I don't necessarily think the amount of time I studied, or when I decided to study really changed. I always studied around 20 hours a week, and I was very flexible with myself in the sense that it doesn't matter when you do it, as long as you get it done, so I could do it in the morning, or I could do it in the evening, and I always made sure to give myself at least one day a week to just relax, because one of the things, if you're studying for four months for a huge test, if you burn yourself out two months before your test, you may end up not studying as effectively or not studying for a week or two. And so I always made sure to get my study time in, but make sure that I'm making time for the things I love so that I am in a good mental headspace. I think also a big difference between the first, second, and third time is how I was studying. They always say practice makes perfect, while someone else replies it's perfect practice that makes perfect. I was studying in a way that was effective compared to those previous two times. Oh, definitely. Like you can practice all you want, but if you're not actually learning from it, then you're not gonna get anywhere. So that's a really good saying, I like that addition. So for this third time, this is a question I've been asking a lot of people who've taken the exam recently. Was your test affected by COVID at all and how did you adjust for any of that that was going on? My test personally wasn't bumped by COVID or canceled by COVID the way some other people had experienced, which I'm sure was incredibly stressful compared to everything else. Scheduling got a little bit weird. I tried to schedule my exam in April, but everything kind of got shut down until the middle of May, I believe it was. And so we ended up all getting on the website and I think it took me almost two hours to schedule my exam. So yeah, it was so unlike anything I'd ever dealt with before. And then I rebooked my exam three different times just because the university deadlines kept changing. So that was, yeah, it was a little stressful, but I mean, it honestly didn't affect me too much. I think the biggest thing on test day that took me by surprise was really how different the shortened exam was. Yeah, did you find it to be different pacing wise when you were taking it from like the longer exam? Definitely. I mean, I always studied with the full length and in my mind, I was like, well, this is gonna be perfect because I'm ready for an eight hour exam and I'm going to have something shorter. But I absolutely lost my pacing because I was used to having a certain gauge on where I was in the passages at a certain point. And that kind of threw me a little bit. And so I wish I would have been a little more mindful of that. Yeah, that's good to know because students are still taking that shortened exam. And so knowing that practicing with full lengths might not translate to the day. That's definitely good to know. So when you were practicing, you did longer full lengths. Yeah, that's right. Okay, yeah, that makes sense because those are the most available, but you have to keep that in mind for the shortened exam. So that's definitely good to know. In regards to other resources that you use during your MCAT prep, what resources did you find to be the most helpful for you? I find generally, they're all pretty much the same in terms of content. I really liked exam crackers because they're more concise and I found their explanations for concepts, especially with physics, which is one of the ones that I was always nervous about, were really intuitive. And most what I found, such as with Princeton Review in the physics review, there's just so much information and they're almost teaching it to you the way you would learn it in a university class, whereas exam crackers was teaching it to you in a way that you could suss out the appropriate answer more quickly and more intuitively, which really is important when you're on a time crunch. Yeah, definitely. You don't wanna be wasting your time with anything that's not gonna be useful. So definitely, did you use exam crackers, practice tests as well? I only used their practice passages. I didn't actually do a full length with them. I really stuck to the AMC material because I wanted to have a certain expectation when I went into the real thing. Yeah, that makes sense. It'd be the most similar. Was there like a certain time that you took all of the full lengths? Like did you save them for the end or like do one at the beginning or any of that? I started doing them about eight weeks out and I did one every two weeks just to kind of track my progress and also see, is there something that I'm struggling and I need to focus on that area right now? And so it was not only a good way to gauge my performance in different sections but also it kind of acted as something that reassured me that I was doing something right in the weeks leading up to my exam. Yeah, like build that confidence if you're increasing your score, that's definitely good. So on your MCAT journey itself, what do you think were your biggest challenges and struggles with the exam and how did you overcome them? I think two sides to it. Cars was definitely one of those things that kept me up at night, especially when I started studying. And just my attitude towards the MCAT, I have experienced test anxiety for as long as I can remember. So I am really critical on myself and I have a lot of self-doubt creep in while I'm taking a full length practice test or when I'm studying and I'm just not getting something. And so I really had to change the channel in my brain on how I was approaching the MCAT from just a mental point of view and started focusing on building my confidence up as opposed to tearing it down. And that's so important. That's something like we really try to focus on too is like staying positive and like believing that you can actually do it because if you're like getting down on yourself that can actually have effects on your score that are really obvious and significant. So were there any like certain strategies that you use to kind of change your mindset, meditation or anything like that? Yeah, absolutely. In fact, I never even considered doing meditation as part of my study prep until I read the guide from you guys. And at first I kind of laughed at it. I was like really like meditation for the MCAT. You know, I started doing it whenever I was feeling more anxiety than usual about it. And I always meditated right before my full length practice test and my real exam because it just kind of brought me back down to this baseline level. And I definitely think the ability to be mindful of how you're feeling and being able to acknowledge these thoughts and then say, okay, it's there, but what about this? And I think on test day, that is what kept me calm when I was facing passages that frankly were scaring me. Yeah, and that's not, you know, the passages are really scary and intimidating, especially on the day. Like, you know, the amount of anxiety that you have when you're practicing is one thing but it's gonna be amplified obviously on the day too. So getting those strategies set beforehand is super important. So I'm glad that you bring that up, a testament to how important it is. In regard to your prep as well, we kind of just talked about things that you did that were really good. Is there anything that you did that you wish you hadn't done? I think there's some things that I probably spent more time on than I should. I spent so much time on physics and then I had very minor things come up. But I think that just comes down to the test I took because sometimes you hear, you know, they have loads of physics, whereas I had very little and I had a lot of organic chemistry. So I think it's good to be mindful that to not overstudy one specific area because you just never know what's gonna come up and to more have this wider understanding of a bit of everything. Yeah, definitely. You don't wanna neglect any of the sections by any means. They're all super important. On that note, talking about the individual sections themselves, so your high score was a 130 in bio-bio, which is awesome. So how did you study for that section in particular and what advice would you have for students who might be struggling there? So the biggest thing for me when I was looking at all this material was it was way more detailed than what you would need for the MCAT. The MCAT oftentimes in the passages will fill in the blanks with these really obscure details unless it's a discrete question. And so I really took all this material and I condensed it right down to the skeleton of what I needed to know, making sure that I understood something enough to be able to apply it. So not condensing it so far down that I'm not able to do that, but there was certain things that it's just you can't know everything. I think for myself, I have a master's degree in biochemistry. So it definitely is my strong suit. I don't think it's my strong suit because I know everything. I think it's because things like data analysis or experimental passages are something that I face in my work and during my degree. And this is a skill that people can learn and it's not really taught as part of the MCAT prep journey. And so I think it's really worthwhile for students to get comfortable with reading research articles and analyzing data and following along with the authors of that article to see what conclusions do they come to with that data because a lot of the passages do ask you to analyze and interpret data and sometimes even suggest a follow-up experiment. And this is a skill that can be developed and often undergraduates don't see it until they go to grad school. So I think that would be super helpful. Yeah, that's really interesting because that's like a more strategic piece. Like content is one thing for that section, like knowing how to actually move through the passage and you've got that experience in grad school which is so interesting and good. Like that's awesome. So for the psych social section which was in your next high section where you got a 129, also amazing. How did you study for that section and what advice would you have for students for that section? So I definitely think that psych and sociology is one of those where there's a lot of terms that you just need to know. So that was definitely more content heavy on my part but I also think that once again, students being able to move through the passages and be able to analyze and interpret the data is really important. I mean, the majority of my exam really was interpreting data. And so same thing, there are psychology and sociology papers online and often the AMC passages are pulled from research articles like that. I also think because the answers can sometimes just be so ambiguous, you often know the terms. So what I always try to do is look at the term, what does it mean? Is it in any way relevant to the scope of the passage? And if it wasn't, then I would eliminate it. Oftentimes I would come down to two answers that sounded good. And what I found was of the two answers, one was inherently true in terms of principle in the field but it wasn't necessarily the best answer for the passage because the other answer was more directly tied to it. So it's a bit of reasoning and sleuth work I found and I think that's something that comes with practice. Yeah, definitely. So would you say that for those two sections, you did a lot of practice questions and things like that to prepare for them? Absolutely. Yeah, that can be super important and in regard to you kind of mentioned before too, doing practice that's actually effective. So was there a certain way that you reviewed those practice questions that you might've gotten wrong and stuff that you found to be really effective? Yeah, absolutely. Not only did I look at my wrong answers, I also looked at my right answers. After I wrote a full length or even if it was just some practice questions, I would go through every single question to make sure that I got a question right for the reason that I had chosen that answer and if it wasn't, learn from that. And if I got a question wrong, I would write down the area that I was struggling with. So was it reaction and organic chemistry? If so, which one was it? Why was I struggling with it? And kind of go back and try and understand what it was about it that tripped me up. And so just really being mindful of the answers that I was getting right and wrong and trying to just further my understanding of the right answer in the end. Yeah, that's super important. And you can kind of fill in content gaps too in that way, which is also content strategy, both go hand in hand. So moving on to the chem-fizz section where you got a 128, how did you study for chem-fizz? And was it similar to the previous sections that we've been talking about? Chemistry was a little bit more intuitive in the end than biochem or psych. I think, yes, you need to learn the rules, the periodic table trends, all of that stuff. But then what I really sought to do was to understand why the rules were the way they were. And then it became much easier to apply it to difficult problems that I hadn't seen before. So if I knew the general reaction mechanism for an ether, let's say, I could kind of look at this new problem and reason my way through it, not just knowing that, yes, okay, in this reaction there's an acid workup. Okay, well, just knowing that isn't really going to help me on the MCAT, rather knowing why, why is that a step? What is the purpose of that? And that made it so much more easy to apply it to so many different problems. That's not to say that when I got to the problem I was like, oh, I know this for sure. It was more like I can immediately eliminate two answers and then reasonably reason my way through the rest of it. Right, using that strategy with your content background that you study and then using strategy from there to apply it, definitely. So lastly, we have the car section which you mentioned before you might have struggled with in the beginning. So how did you study there and how did you overcome your initial struggles with it? Well, I definitely think one of the biggest things that got in the way for me with cars was simply my fear of it, which sounds silly but I was terrified of cars. And so I kind of early on sat down and thought, well, the only way I'm gonna get over this fear is by doing a lot of practice. And so that was initially my strategy was every day that I studied I would do two passages. Now I also used exam crackers because they had a really nice stepwise way of breaking down the passages that I really liked. And I think the biggest thing for me was that you're reading for the purpose of the passage rather than reading to memorize and look at every key detail, which is definitely what I used to do. I'd be like, oh, 1978, gotta write that down when it's probably not even relevant. And so I think not only just, okay, you need to look for the main point but actually understanding how to do that. So that was really helpful. And then I really loved the MCAT mastery passage dissection because it really allowed me to see how people who are really good at cars thought about the passages and dissected them. And it made it easier for me to spot those same patterns after I was done with the question pack and also get a feel for what a good or poor car's answer looks like. Yeah, that can be so helpful. Again, practicing but also in an effective way. And I don't think it's really common for people to be really intimidated by cars. So it's not a bad thing that you are. In fact, like most students, like this is the hardest section for a lot of people. So it's good to hear that you were able to overcome that and you did it through practice and strategy. So that's hopefully gonna be really helpful to a lot of students. I hope so. Yeah. So for your actual MCAT day, how did you feel the morning of the exam and walking in and everything? Like how was that? The morning of I felt kind of strangely calm up until I drove to the test and then once I was in the parking lot, I was like, oh my God, the anxiety kind of came up. And so before going into the test center, I meditated, which helped ease a bit of that anxiety. And I went into the test center and just tried to keep this knowing that I had prepared as much as I was able. I knew more than I thought I did and all I could do now was to go in and apply all of that hard work into this one test in this one day. Yeah, nothing to add there. That's awesome. You mentioned before that, when you were taking this exam that you did have some struggles because it was shortened. So when you ran into like those pacing issues on the day, how did that feel and how did you kind of work through it? Well, so there are two different pacing problems that one was when I first started, I kind of let fear come up a little bit in the chem fizz section. And I kind of gave myself 30 seconds to do my internal freak out. And then I said, okay, that's all you get. If you continue to freak out, you're not going to do well. So you know this, if there's a question you don't know, flag it, move on. So there was that and that seemed to work pretty good. I definitely ran into pacing problems in cars because I found the passage is a bit longer. So I just had to move through my passages a bit quicker. I like to read a bit slower so that I can really digest everything a bit better. In terms of biochem and psych, I found that it wasn't that my pacing was off, but that I was being much more conscious and deliberate in my reading and the way I was answering my questions, which ended up taking me longer to get through it. So if I found I was really spending way too much time on a question, I would flag it and move on. And if I had time, go back to it because how I saw it was, okay, you're harping over one question, but if you spend too much time on this question that you might get right or you might get wrong, it's hard to know. You might risk other questions that you could get right. So I know it's hard. I feel for everyone, but just move on. It's one question. You gotta move on. You just gotta move on. I like that you did that. I like that you like made that adjustment and gave yourself a set time to like freak out and then you're like, it's over. And you have to do that. Yeah, it's kind of like mindfulness and meditation. Whenever your mind wanders, you're not meant to just be like, no, don't focus on that. It's, I acknowledge it, but I'm gonna move on and do this. So I think allowing myself that period of time that in no way was going to make or break my MCAT, I think was the right decision. Right, if you'd ignored it, it might've affected your entire section. So definitely, I agree. So after you finished the exam, what was it like waiting for your score to come out and how did it feel when you finally got it back? So the waiting period, I feel really bad for everyone that was around me because I went between. It was probably fine to, I don't know how I did too. I don't even know if I broke 500. It was definitely a rollercoaster ride for the two and a half week period. In fact, I was so nervous that the morning that I was opening my score, I got my best friend on the phone with me and I was like, you need to be here because I don't know if I can do it alone. So she told me, take a deep breath, now open the score. So I clicked on it and the first thing I saw was the total score. And I think I made this weird inhaling noise and my friend was like, I don't know if that's bad or good. And I just immediately started crying because five years after the first one, all the stress and the time and the money going into this one obstacle that was holding me back was done. And I think I was relieved and I was ecstatic. Yeah, that's amazing. That is awesome. And you are done. Congratulations again. That's, that must have been an amazing feeling. Thank you. Yeah, so going forward, what are your plans now and what's your vision for your next five, 10 years going from here? Right now, I have applied for this cycle of medical school. I'm a Canadian resident. So usually we only apply to a handful of schools. So I will be interviewing at two schools next month. And hopefully, if everything goes well in the spring, I'll get some good news. As far as five to 10 years, I definitely hope. And I expect to see myself graduating or at least being in medical school. And I definitely, you know, there are some things I want to do in medical school. I want to continue doing research. And I am very passionate about mental health just because of my own experiences with it, with other people that are close to me in my life. And so I definitely want to work towards destigmatizing mental illness and also making it more accessible to people, whether it be to people in rural communities or to people who just financially can't pay for those services. Yeah, that's so important. That's awesome. I was a psych major in college, so I'm right there with you. Like, let's do that, gosh. Well, that's amazing. Good luck with all of that going forward. I think that might be all that we have time for, but is there any final bit of advice that you have for people who may be listening to this and are doubting themselves and struggling with the exam? Absolutely. I never thought I could get a 513. And so I didn't get smarter in the last five years. There wasn't some magical moment where I became smarter, but I learned how to study in a way that was specific to me that would help with my success. And it takes time and it takes sometimes failure to figure that out. And I know that if other pre-meds are struggling with this and if it's something that you really want, then you can do it. I believe in you, even if you don't believe in yourself. Yes, we all believe in you. You can do this. Well, thanks so much for sitting down and talking with me, Jennifer. We really appreciate you taking the time to do this. That was my pleasure. Thank you for having me. Of course. And good luck with everything going forward again. And finally, thanks to all of our listeners for taking the time to listen to this. And good luck with the exam. Like Jennifer said, you can do it and we believe in you. So happy studying. Juan, this is Monica again. And before you go, I just want to remind you that if you're not receiving our daily free MCAT strategy and success story emails yet, definitely be sure to sign up for those at mcatmastery.net slash free course. In addition to that, if you feel like you might need personalized help with the exam and would like to have an MCAT mentor kind of look at your situation and help you identify exactly what's holding your score back, you can look into that too at mcatmastery.net slash MCAT mentors. And lastly, and most importantly, we just want you guys to know that you have what it takes to succeed on this exam. We know the MCAT is intimidating. And when you get a score that's lower than you expected on a practice or on the real thing, it's so easy to feel discouraged or frustrated or even hopeless about the exam. We get it. A lot of us have been there. So we want to give you the guidance that we wish we'd had when we were in your shoes. And that's what these interviews are for. That's what our emails are for. We want you guys to be able to feel confident again. And most importantly, be able to see that med school mission is possible and it's not out of your reach at all. So thanks again for listening. And remember that every top score, every med student and every doctor made it through this journey. So you can do it too. You guys got this.