Healthy co-parenting strategies for divorced parents

Johanna Lynn, a relationship specialist and founder of The Family Imprint Institute, has over 20 years of expertise in resolving inherited family patterns and helps her clients dismantle unhealthy patterns, restore relationships, and create resilient boundaries. In this episode, they discuss common relationship issues couples face during and after divorce, including money matters, different views on parenting, infidelity, and the role of in-laws. They also delve into co-parenting and how to get both parents on the same page to ensure children don't feel the stress or tension from their separation.

Johanna explains that separating the pain of the separation from the co-parenting relationship is essential, and the foundation of healthy co-parenting is acknowledging that both parents love their children and want the best for them. She also suggests that looking at their relational family history and understanding each other's reactions can be helpful in trying to maintain a healthy relationship with their co-parent for the sake of their children.

Need help from Johanna? Contact her by visiting www.johannalynn.ca.

While the information presented is intended to provide you with general information to navigate divorce without destruction, this podcast is not legal advice. This information is specific to the law in North Carolina. If you have any questions before taking action, consult an attorney who is licensed in your state.

If you are in need of legal assistance in North Carolina, contact us at Gailor Hunt by visiting www.divorceistough.com.

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Creators and Guests

Host

Jaime Davis

Family Law Attorney, Mediator, Author & Podcast Host

What is A Year and a Day: Divorce Without Destruction?

Board-certified family law attorney Jaime Davis and her guests provide information and tips for getting through a separation and divorce without destroying family relationships or finances. From marriage therapists and financial planners to private investigators and parenting coordinators, learn how to navigate divorce without destruction.

JAMIE: Welcome to a year in a day. I'm Jamie Davis, board certified family law attorney

at Gaylor Hunt. On this show, I talk with lawyers.

JOHANNA: Psychologists, and other experts with

the goal of helping you navigate divorce without destruction. In this episode, I'm talking with Joanna Lynn, relationship specialist

and found of the family imprint institute.

JAMIE: With over 20 years of expertise in.

JOHANNA: Resolving inherited family patterns,

joanna helps her clients dismantle unhealthy patterns,

restore relationships, and create resilient boundaries.

JAMIE: We're going to talk with Joanna about.

JOHANNA: How you can get on the same team with

your co parent.

JAMIE: Thanks for joining me, Joanna.

SPEAKER C: It's so great to be here, Jamie.

JAMIE: So what are some of the common relationship

issues you see between couples who have gone through

a divorce?

SPEAKER C: Well, I think we all know money issues

don't. They say it's the number one reason why

couples come into some friction and challenge,

and sometimes it means the end of the relationship.

Some of the things I see in my practice are different

views on parenting. Different values start to

emerge a couple of years into the relationship. Certainly, infidelity is a top one. Broken trust. I think

the inlaws come in a lot, and we joke a little

bit in the work we do. We start calling them the

outlaws. That a lot of times they can cause all

kinds of challenges inside the family unit that

is present. And there can be some negotiation

that needs to be talked about, and I think that

leads right into healthy boundaries. So it can

be a mix of one or two top themes or all of the

above.

JAMIE: And so when you are working with couples

who have experienced a divorce or going through

a divorce, how do you get the co parents on the

same page?

SPEAKER C: That's a big one, because our kids

feel the stress, the tension, whether it's something

they overhear or something they just feel between

us. And I think a big part of the work that I

start to do with couples who are trying to figure

out this whole co parenting dynamic thing is to

really come into that space where if I look at the other person, I'm really acknowledging that without them, my children, who

I love so much, wouldn't be who they are. To really

acknowledge that that other person that's caused

me heartache and difficulty and all the things

I'm still processing is half of my children. And

so to really kind of come from that foundational

place first and to begin to look at, it will always

be for the love of these children that we're going

to share. And so that's something that we can

meet on the same page about and the commitment,

in a way. And even if you're the only one that's

starting, someone's got to start to find that

resolution that the hurt from the relationship

is now over. So we separate out the relationship

hurt from the co parenting choices and begin to

look at how we can come forward from here, keeping

the love of our children as sort of the guidepost,

as the way we can look forward together. I think

a big part of looking at ourselves, because it

sounds easy, okay, let's separate my relationship

hurt from my co parenting choices. But I think

the biggest empowerment can come from our self looking at, well, who am I

now after really loving this person? What have

I learned about myself through how things got

really sticky or the final separation of this

relationship? And the big one is, are there any

gifts that I'm taking with me? Who am I after

spending all these years with this person? And

sometimes the gifts are looking right back at

us through the eyes of our children.

JAMIE: That's so interesting. I feel like I say

this to my clients all the time. They really do

tend to have a very hard time separating the pain

of the separation and the end of their marriage

from this co parenting relationship that they

have to have moving forward. We tell them all

the time it's about putting your children first

and making sure they feel loved by both of you.

And while it may be tempting in your email communications

with your co parent to respond to some of those

negative comments they may get, that's really

not furthering the goal of what's best for the

kids.

SPEAKER C: Not at all. And I think we can do all

kinds of things for the love of our children.

And I know I started to do a lot of my own work

once I became a mom with this feeling of, OOH, I don't want to repeat past

pain. And these are things I never looked at before,

Jamie, in all the years of just living life, but

something about for the greater love of our children.

And so I would encourage your listeners to really

consider, how do I drop some of that pain that

belongs between the two of us and protect our

kiddos from that as much as possible?

JAMIE: Absolutely. How do you get parents to understand

why their co parent may be doing what they are

doing or acting the way that they are acting?

SPEAKER C: Yeah, that can be super preventative.

We want to start to look at where their reactions

come from, and the strongest place to do that

is start to look at their relational family history.

So how long have you been married to this person?

You know their mom, you know their dad, or you

know, the stories that are held inside of your

ex about them and to recognize that what's going

to get played out has a lot to do with what's

unresolved back there. So a big place to be kind

of neutral is to understand a lot of the conflict.

A lot of the trying to negotiate and figure things

out is probably not even addressed to you. The

stonewalling, the withdraw, the criticism even

the name calling to be able to call it what it

is, which is almost like you could imagine turning

your ex back towards their family of origin as

a way to put them back in sometimes where they

could go with you from a relational perspective

and where they never could. And let's face it,

a lot of that is probably the reason why the relationship

has ended or the relationship has turned out the

way it has. So we've got to kind of accept that

what's unresolved between the two of us is now bleeding into the co parenting dynamic and we're back to it's time

to separate that out. Otherwise our kids are going

to kind of carry the weight of that. And so the

practice here is as much as possible not to take

it personally, to understand the full context,

to hear where it's coming from so that you can

stay centered and grounded. As soon as we take

it personally, we're pulled into reaction or defense

and then it's kind of all downhill from there.

JAMIE: So is the idea I just want to make sure

that I'm understanding here is the idea that the

co parent may have learned these patterns from his or her parents based

upon things that they have witnessed. Like for

example, is this them modeling marriage? Right?

Like were the co parents parents modeling marriage

and it's a repeat of that or is it more about

the co parent's relationship with his or her parents

and how they were treated?

SPEAKER C: That's a great distinction. And so

it's both. So the first thing to remember through

the science of epigenetics is that we are literally born imprinted with what's unresolved the emotional

hurts, the life experiences of our parents and

our grandparents. So it's even more so what was

modeled. That's one part of it. And the other

part is what is imprinted. And so we really want

to look at ourselves, our own marriages, our own

children in the context of the larger family system.

So that's why it's so important when we look at

this co parenting piece as oh my gosh, my gorgeous

son or my amazing daughter, they're half me and

they're half my ex. And so sometimes we might

see the traits of our ex coming out on our child

and we kind of cringe or we pull back and the

biggest gift we can give our kids is to say things

like, you know what? You are so funny, just like

your dad. Or when I first met your mom, that was

what we would laugh about for hours. And you've

got that same trait in you giving that gift of

being able to say the things I see in you from

your mom or your dad. I really appreciate and

love it's great to see them in you. The worst

thing I hear from many of my clients is my mom

used to tell me, you're just like your father

in that tone and we all know what that means. That's a pretty loaded conversation and so we want to

pull that back into understanding it's not just

the modeling, it's also what's been imprinted.

JAMIE: So once you've gotten to this place where

the co parents are hopefully understanding why

the co parent is acting the way that they are,

how do you create open communication with your

co parent? How do you get them to do that?

SPEAKER C: I think it's so important to stay present,

to stay with what is the decision we're talking

about today? Instead of bringing back the old

hurt from what might be unresolved, separating

it out, these various parenting decisions or showing

up present to the school appointment or to the

recital or the game for the children to really

be there and having conversations. Are we going

to celebrate the birthdays together? Are we going

to have some, I don't know, Thanksgiving piece

where maybe it's not the whole dinner together,

but we're going to get together and just have

a family moment that is it possible to hold how

I communicate with my co parent that of course

we are still a family and now it just looks different.

And what is that look different for us? That works

well as we're healing from the separation and

also models the best option for our kids moving

forward.

JAMIE: I really like what you said about being

present. That's something else that I try to stress

with my clients that once we've reached an agreement

about what the custody schedule is going to be,

there is no need to continually go back and rehash

all of the evidence that you were going to use

against your co parent in court. We're moving

forward and we're learning to co parent. We're

not keeping tabs for court.

SPEAKER C: Well, exactly. It's so much about I'm

still in a fight for what I didn't get enough

of in the marriage or I still need to be heard

for what went wrong here. And I think it moves

us further and further away from a healthy co parenting piece. It's almost like we

don't act in our marriage like we do when we're

dating and we don't act in our co parenting like

we did in the fight of the marriage. We've got

to be able to move that trajectory along in now

how we're.

JAMIE: Relating, how can co parents avoid unnecessary

conflict?

SPEAKER C: I think one thing to keep in mind is

to be very careful of our language. So watch the

statements like she always or he never does. We

get locked into these positions and we kind of

don't let ourself get to know this new relationship.

So what I mean by that is you were once my partner

and now you're my ex and now you're my co parent

and so how am I relating to you now? Differently.

I want to give up the fight for how things went

back then and I want to look at how we can be

constructive together. So coming from that place

that we both share this love for our children,

and how can we meet there? Let that be the guiding

principle.

JAMIE: How do you ever learn to rely on your co

parent?

SPEAKER C: That can be a really big one, because

the marriage ended for a reason, right? And a

lot of that was, I stopped relying on you. My

heart closed to you. We've got our own dynamic

in that. I think the foundational piece to that,

though, Jamie, is if I couldn't rely on my parent,

if that was my early life experience to recognize, oh, I'm playing that out again here.

So the first part is really the ownership of OOH,

that's familiar. That's my part. And that's actually

good news because it doesn't require the co parent

to be involved at all. It's the recognition that

I had a hard time trusting my parents to be there

for me. Oh, this not being able to rely on really

played out in the marriage and how might the co parenting piece look differently? And so

that might be some pretty honest conversations

about setting up realistic expectations. That's

sort of more logistical and practical. But the

biggest piece that moves the needle there is healing

at the origin. Otherwise it has no other option

but to replay in the present.

JAMIE: Why is it important for children to see

their parents getting along?

SPEAKER C: Well, the simple truth of that is that

our parents are the template for our future generations.

Our parents are the template for our future relationships.

So how we were loved as a child unconsciously

becomes how we expect love to go in our relationships.

So we're modeling to our kids even how to do conflict,

how to be kind, how to keep our heart open even

when it hurts, how to have boundaries, how to

negotiate difficult situations. There's so many

learning opportunities in this dynamic. It's very

important to know that if our child takes a side,

it hurts them. So one example is if I'm the daughter,

and I can only see my dad through my mum's eyes as the person who hurts

her, the person who makes her cry, I lose my dad,

I lose the ability to be the daughter, and I become mom's. Ally I

see mostly all men through the way she sees dad,

and that's probably not the healthiest way to

do it. And so a lot of what I'm working with, with my clients in their forty s fifty s?

Sixty s is this piece. Oh, gosh. Back in my teens,

when my parents separated, I went over there,

quote unquote, on Mom's team, and I ended up with

a very similar marriage to what I saw with my

parents. Keeping in mind this all happens underneath

the surface, this is all unconscious, but this

is what I mean by our sort of love imprint, or

the blueprint that we run from, depending on how

things went for us in our childhood.

JAMIE: This is also very interesting. And as you're

talking, I'm kind of thinking through similar

things that I say to my clients in my practice.

Someone comes in for a consultation and they don't

want to get separated because they don't want

their child to have two homes. And so as I dig

a little more into the marriage and the things

the child is witnessing in the home of these two

people who do not get along, they're very high

conflict. They're yelling in front of the child.

I say to the person, you do realize you're modeling

marriage for your child and your child is going

to grow up thinking this is okay either to talk

to someone this way or on the flip side, to be

talked to that way, depending upon which role.

And so it's very interesting to hear your take

on this as well.

SPEAKER C: Oh, and I couldn't agree more with

exactly what you've said. I think I say to many

of my clients, sometimes separation is the healthiest

way to show respect. Sometimes that separation

gives us almost the space we need to find it.

Because when we're in such close proximity, all

there is, is friction. And so sometimes it's the

separation that actually protects our kids and

models to them something that can again, we're

still a family, it just looks different. And what

else is possible?

JAMIE: Well, and the child is going to be better

off if he or she has two healthy parents. Maybe

they live in two separate homes, but they're both

healthy and have the opportunity to be happy.

And the child gets to see that.

SPEAKER C: Exactly that's what we want at the

end of the day.

JAMIE: Well, so let's say that you've gotten through

the separation, you've gotten through the divorce,

and you are ready to begin dating or searching

for a new relationship. How and when do you communicate

that to the children?

SPEAKER C: I think it's really going to be very

individual. There is no sort of formula to follow.

It takes time to get to know a new person. It

takes time to see how that dynamic is going to

unfold between two people. But I think a primary

thing to sort of use as a guideline is to keep our kids out

of our adult problems, our adult relationships,

our grown up decisions. And so that's our primary

role as their parent. And so we've got to know

as much as possible, is this person really going

to be a long term part of our lives. And so for

some of us, that takes four months, six months,

for others, it's well into a year. But it's deciding

for yourself first before almost doing like a

test run. How do the kids like him or her? Or

how does this all fit together, that you really

want to test out that dynamic for yourself so

that your kids don't have to go through yet another

separation in six months to twelve months time.

JAMIE: So let's say that you feel like you have

met the right person that's going to be around

for a while. What is the best way to discuss that

new relationship with your co parent?

SPEAKER C: Well, optimally, in an ideal world,

this conversation is part of the custody agreement

or sort of set forth as all of the main decisions

are decided. Because I think when the time comes

and we've met that person but our co parent doesn't

want that person to be around the kids or we can

just get into all kinds of challenges and conflict

when that arises. So if at all possible, plan ahead. If we're at that crossroads and it hasn't been discussed, I

think it's a great idea to have our co parent

out for a cup of tea or coffee without the kiddos

and just have an open conversation if that is

impossible because it's too high conflict. I think

it's important enough to bring in a mediator to

bring in some sort of relationship specialist

to walk through this and come to a very secure agreement that can be moved forward

from here. Like you say, you don't have to go back and forth

and keep having a decision on every little game

or night out.

JAMIE: So let's take things one step further and

complicate it a little bit more. Let's say that

you want to get involved with someone, you've

gotten serious with them and they also have children

and so you're trying to blend to families. What

is the best way to go about that?

SPEAKER C: I think, stepping in with very clear

expectations so that to recognize, okay, we're

a second relationship. We're getting together,

and he's got three kids and I've got two. That

we step in acknowledging we are both in fifth

place, meaning our children's needs come first

before the marriage, at least until they're off

to university or college or off in their next

phase of life, that this won't be like this forever.

But while the kids are young, this is kind of

the agreement or the rules of engagement of this

blended family that we've got to accept that we're

in fifth place with each other. There gets to

be all kinds of entanglements and complications when me, the new partner, is jealous of the time my

partner is spending with his daughter or son.

And so we sort of have to recognize that even

if I come in as a stepparent, I am my partner's trusted adult

friend to his kids, but I'm certainly not a parent.

That we really have to understand that they've

got a mom, they've got a dad, and we sort of separate

our place, which is, I'm a trusted adult. You

can come to me, and I want to be a good friend,

but I don't take the place of your parent.

JAMIE: Yeah. One of the issues that I see a lot when clients have exes who have started dating and relationships

are becoming serious and the client does not want

the new person around the children, even though

maybe this new person is now a fiance or a wife

or a husband. And one of the things I always say

is it's a good thing to have as many people love

your children as will love your children. That's

not a bad thing to have more folks who are willing

to be kind to your kids.

SPEAKER C: Oh, I couldn't agree more. And nine

times out of ten, Jamie, that goes back to that

parent and their own insecurity. Will I be replaced?

Will my daughter like the step mom more than me?

And the complexities that might go on as that

daughter gets a little bit older? And so we've

really got to be honest with ourselves. And look at OOH, is that my insecurity getting in

the way of inviting another person in to love

my daughter, to love her in a different way, to

give her new perspectives or experiences, to be

able to be whole enough within ourselves so that

we don't project that out onto our kids? Divorce

opens all of this up. It's not just a legal process

or just an emotional completion. There's so many moving parts. That's why I think your podcast

is so important, just to give information to those

people who are trying to reorganize their lives

and make it make sense again.

JAMIE: Absolutely. I could not agree with you

more about all of the moving parts and just trying

to get the legal and the emotional and the business

sides of things to all come together. If you could

only share one piece of advice with someone going

through a divorce, what would it be?

SPEAKER C: I think it's to really get honest with

yourself about how the relationship came to an

end. What were the factors, what was it really

about? At the end of the day, looking at what

you need in your loving connections. The more

you take time to review this and really understand

sort of the more subtle under the hood kind of

stuff that went on, it's less likely that you'll

repeat these patterns in your next relationship.

None of us get to be the way we are in relationship

by accident. And so starting to look at gosh,

what was my love imprint? How did I show up in

this relationship? What maybe unresolved pieces

did I bring? And of course, it's not taking it

all on for ourselves. There is the other half

of it, but I think many of those folks I've worked

with in their divorce, they're really in hurt

and blame. And I think blame is the cheapest hit of power going. We're just all fingers are out to

them. And I'd like to turn that inward to look

at what was my part, because we can only ever

change ourselves.

JAMIE: That is wonderful advice and I have thoroughly

enjoyed our conversation today. Thank you so much.

If one of our listeners is looking for help from

you in their divorce. What's the best way for

them to get in touch with you?

SPEAKER C: A great resource is to find me on LinkedIn under Joanna Lynn. I have a divorce recovery newsletter

that they can subscribe to and get all kinds of

information there. If they'd like to learn more,

they could certainly visit my website, which is

Triple, W, Dot, Joannalin, CA all kinds of podcasts

and articles there too, just to learn more and

gain some more insights.

JOHANNA: Thanks, Joanna, for joining us. And thank

you for listening. If you like this episode, be

sure to follow the show wherever you get your

podcast so you don't miss the next one. While

this information is intended to provide you with

general information to navigate divorce without

destruction, this podcast is not legal advice.

This information is specific to the law in North

Carolina. If you have any questions before taking

action, consult an attorney who is licensed in

your state. If you are in need of assistance in North Carolina, contact us at gaylorhunt by visiting divorcestuff.com. I'm Jamie Davis,

and I'll talk with you next time on A Year in A Day.