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RONderings is where meaningful conversations meet practical leadership. Ron Rapatalo talks with leaders, changemakers, and everyday people about purpose, career growth, wellness, relationships, identity, and the moments that shape who we become.
Ron is a business development leader, executive and career coach, author of Leverage the People Who Love and Care About You, and host of RONderings. Drawing on nearly three decades of experience across corporate, nonprofit, higher education, government, and mission-driven organizations, he believes the best leadership starts with self-awareness, authentic relationships, and the courage to keep growing - for ourselves and for those we serve.
What's up? I'm Ron Rapatalo, and this is the Ronderings podcast. Around here, I sit down with guests for real, unpolished conversations about the lessons and values that shaped them. And I'll be right there with you, sharing my own take, laughing at myself when I need to, and wondering out loud about this messy thing called life. Glad you pulled up a chair.
Ron Rapatalo:Let's get into it. Before we start this episode, I need to name something personal. As of the weekend I'm recording this episode, my nephew Arnold was laid to rest in Queens, a navy veteran, four years active duty, a sweet, generous young man who came home after his naval duty carrying a lot of mental health issues after his service. Grief is a way of sharpening conversations. Today's conversation with Craig Martin is about exactly that, what it means to carry weight and still choose purpose.
Ron Rapatalo:Craig is an educator, community builder, and founder of the Black Boy Joy Summit. He is also a black queer man navigating Boston's education system, fraternity spaces, masculinity, exclusion, and calling. We talk about depression, about being three hundred pounds and a hundred seventy five pounds of that being pain, about being excluded from rooms despite twenty years of excellence, about fathers learning to emote after forty years of silence. This isn't a polished leadership conversation. It's about loss, belonging, masculinity, faith, and taking l's on the way to elevation.
Ron Rapatalo:Let's get into it. Ronderings universe. I've got one of my favorite, favorite people on the mic with me here for Ronderings this afternoon on a kind of warmer Sunday here as we're filming this in winter. My homeboy Craig Aarons Martin is on
Craig Aarons - Martin:the mic. What's good, love? What's good?
Ron Rapatalo:You know, it's just balancing all the things, man. 2026 definitely feels a little bit better than 2025, and yet still a lot to have to get shit through, man. My god. Like, sick and, like, six weeks in, I'm like, oh, it has been there's been things.
Craig Aarons - Martin:So Lots. Yeah. Digging ourselves out of a melange of things, figuratively and literally.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. At the time of this recording, this is supposed to snow a little bit in the area. I'm like, I don't wanna shove on more snow. I'm like, come on.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Over it.
Ron Rapatalo:Come on. There's still enough, like, very icy snow, like, on my grass and, like, in patches in the neighborhood. I'm like, man, I have more I'm just I'm I was not in the mood.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Right. It is it's not sexy. It is not the same. No. Like, day after Valentine's Day, and you're like Word.
Craig Aarons - Martin:All of the movies you've seen on Netflix, you're like, oh, it's just mm-mm. No.
Ron Rapatalo:No. No home no Hallmark movies here. Well, Craig, I'm asking you to get right into it, man. What is your story?
Craig Aarons - Martin:Yeah. What is the story that I so I'm in I'm in the my journey right now is the journey of becoming. And and so, like, if there was a a term for me, it's becoming. I am a southerner from New Orleans, Louisiana. Depending on, you know, how good we get sauced up and if we have the right the right environment, child,
Ron Rapatalo:say, I'll be
Craig Aarons - Martin:out and just like, it's right.
Ron Rapatalo:Okay, now.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Sutherland, I'm a Southerner first. Went to a historically black university where education for us was sword and shield. Like, that's how we get to liberation. And everybody around me was like an abolitionist, in in in their practice because it's like, we are being taught how to shepherd young people to greater awarenesses of who they are to help deconstruct all of these these knowings and unknowings of like, what is history and our histories and how they're uniquely tied and how do we do that work of disrupting and and creating enlightenment in a way that I think that, are absolutely necessary in this work. And for the last twenty this is year 26 for me.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Now knowing that I hold the title of teacher, former school leader, author, coach, mentor, you know, CEO, podcaster, and more. So, like, there's all these new ones but I still hold on to my southern roots. I still am a southern one. Even I've been I can actually say this now. Oh, this is gonna hurt my my heart.
Craig Aarons - Martin:I've been in the North a lot more than I've been in the South.
Ron Rapatalo:I I've had that similar, like, counting, although I've been in the New York City Metro Area my entire life in terms of living at a home, apartment. I've had a New Jersey zip code for eighteen years, so more than a third of my life. So I had a friend of mine of kiddlingly going, well, you're in New Jersey. And I was like, no. What the fuck?
Craig Aarons - Martin:Like, go get going to New York. Through and through. New and you know
Ron Rapatalo:And if you watch this, this one Instagram handle that I watch, which is, like, so true to form. It's like, if you was born in New York, you're always in New York. It don't matter. Absolutely. If you was born someone else and you was six months and you came to New York, you're not a New Yorker.
Ron Rapatalo:You gotta be you gotta be born.
Craig Aarons - Martin:I I hear you.
Ron Rapatalo:I It's a very strict type of
Craig Aarons - Martin:thing. I like, look. I'm in Brooke Brooklyn. You know, best style, honey. They was like, nah.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Nah. I don't care how long you stay. Like, nah. You're not gonna be. I'm like, I heard you.
Craig Aarons - Martin:I hear you.
Ron Rapatalo:There are certain definitions that just go. People need to understand them. Like, you can understand the rules of engagement. We can get along. But if you don't you decide you wanna buck back as a transplant, it's a problem.
Ron Rapatalo:Facts. It's just a big problem.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Facts.
Ron Rapatalo:Well, Craig, I know before we got on, man, what I wanna put in terms of, like, you're becoming is that you just crossed to be a a sigma frat. So congratulations. But how does that feel? Tell me about that. I wanna learn a little bit about your journey to, like, to decide to to pledge and to become a brother.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Yeah. Honestly, it was not on my bingo card. I so at Dillard University where I was, in undergrad, I fought against it. I fought I physically fought the Really? Yes.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Yes. A a particular fraternity that presided in in my classes and the university, we went we went head to head. And I'm just like, I don't understand. Like, we talk like, we're in classes talking about liberation, freedom, civil rights movement, connection, movement making, you know, all these movement. And I'm like, we can't get along as black men at all.
Craig Aarons - Martin:And I'm like, there's a there's a variety of reasons why that may have played out. A very strong personality, I understand that. But I was like, I don't understand how the you have decided that there are echelons and hierarchies of, like, who we are and how we show up as men, and therefore, I don't actually, you know, rise up to that. And so, I wrote it off because I'm like, I'm all set. You know, me, five me, all day.
Craig Aarons - Martin:And so, I had some really transformative experiences this past summer where at Juneteenth, I did some volunteerism, and it was really great to be around and among, you know, folks who are part of the Divine Nine, part of sororities and fraternities, black sororities and fraternities. Yes. And the energy was just amazing. And it's at this Yeah. In my life, if I'm being honest, that I've done a lot.
Craig Aarons - Martin:I've built a lot. I've some really great folks who are in my village. Don't get me wrong. But for whatever reason, now that I've crossed, like, over the mid forties, I'm like, okay. There's a thing that I'm looking for.
Craig Aarons - Martin:And it's not because I'm having a midlife crisis, but it is an opportunity for me. I'm like, I wanna be part of something bigger.
Ron Rapatalo:-GIGI: Yeah. See that.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Most of it. I'm more part of, like, I'm not anchored to my building. I'm not anchored to my community in the same ways. And so I was like, Well, let me consider this. And so the journey itself has been I will say that one of the biggest things that I'm learning in this is, like, this unconditional love, this this this brave love, this desire to Yeah.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Lean into the uncomfortable, to hold and suspend judgment to the degree I care because we are very interesting people or Okay. In the in this life. But to create space that we always get to the right thing in the end. We might not like the way folks show up because we want them to show up in the ways they feel comfortable. Like, that's what I felt like I needed.
Craig Aarons - Martin:I need you to show up like this. I need you to do this in this way. And it's like, that's not happening. And that is now breaking down this it's breaking me down righteously to be more patient with
Ron Rapatalo:Mhmm.
Craig Aarons - Martin:In a way that I had not
Ron Rapatalo:That's powerful, man. When I've heard because the the experience I I've heard about joining grad chapter versus, like, under because there's a significance difference because of where you are in your life stage, right? You're not going through the same kind of experiences you would see in the yard or other movies, right? You know, versus like grad chapters, a much more, I think whatever, every chapter's different from what I've heard, right? Like, it's kind of a very abbreviated experience.
Ron Rapatalo:You're in a professional. Like, you ain't gonna get asked like, yo, you gotta stay up at, like, four I mean, unless that's what you went through. Right? You don't go through that.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Right? So I told them up front. I'm like, if y'all fight, I fight back. Like, I I'm too old to get it. I'm still busy.
Craig Aarons - Martin:I'm like, I'm too old. What we will not do oh, you that paddle's nice on the wall. But if you think I'm down with that, like, no. So, like, school days. I'm not.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Love the movie. Don't leave the experience. Word. That's right. Oh,
Ron Rapatalo:man. Yeah. It it just I find more and more in this day and age for our peoples. Right? I.
Ron Rapatalo:E, the global majority, that finding these spaces where we can connect with folks Where? In our particular identities matters. And so something I know in our kind of like green room conversation, I was talking about, you know, this weekend and, you know, celebrating the life of, you know, my nephew Arnold. And thing that made me really warm was going back home to the neighborhood I grew up in Queens and seeing diversity still very much at the center of it, at it, particularly for his family. It's like so if people don't know anything about South Ozone Park, Queens, it's like Guyanese, Trinidadian Central.
Ron Rapatalo:Okay. Like going back to like Little Guyana, like Little Whatever, know, Little Trinidad, right? And just the way that people mix together. So his side of the family, you know, because some of them, like, Arnold's mom works in hospitals, if you work in hospitals, like diversity, he's like, like, all kinds of people, right? And so there's a bunch of black folks there and brown folks there, right?
Ron Rapatalo:And the Filipinos, it was just like it just felt like home again. Right? And I find that in so many spaces, right? You seek out what makes you comfortable, right? You know, sometimes it's like, I wanna be around my Filipino people, so it's like, I'm just gonna go ahead and put karaoke spot at a restaurant.
Ron Rapatalo:Right? Sometimes I'd be around all my Asian American people. So I'm gonna go to, like, my my activist roots and go seek out those spaces. Right? I'm gonna be around my black folk.
Ron Rapatalo:Right? Depending on which one my African folk, my African American folks, my Caribbean. It depends. And so I might have to go in a different neighborhood, a different thing for, you know, be able to, like, experience those things. Right?
Ron Rapatalo:I think there's something, I think, so I think needed in 2026 about us connecting in these ways where I identity at times publicly, the government is trying to stamp it out. You know what I'm saying? And so I think we're redoubling down in a lot of ways saying, nah. We are not gonna allow our identities to be erased. And so we are seeking each other out even more is what I'm finding.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Yeah. No. It's a it's a it's a consistent conversation that, so many of us are having about there's such power in this. The thing that I have a concern about is, like, there is a young man who reached out to me. He's currently he's currently in undergrad.
Craig Aarons - Martin:And so he had sought me out. He was like, yo, I've seen you, and connected to, like, the Black Boy Joy Summit work that I've done. And Yeah. He was like, he was like, I really just need someone who I can talk to and connect with. And so, like, we started connecting, we met in person, he came out and hung out with me at an event.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Yeah. We did some, virtual conversations, and then he disappeared. And, you know, he you know, he's like, just just stay on me, just stay with me. And this is not someone who, like, I taught. This is not a student, like, someone who is a family friend.
Craig Aarons - Martin:This is someone who sought me out in the public sphere. And so, you know, some of the themes of his conversation just been about, it's been overwhelming for him to just be a young man who happens to be a young man of color, who have to be in the sciences, and he's one of only and few. And that community important, and he is expected to separate that, but then he doesn't feel like there is a level of regard for him in the community that he's kind of expected to hold because he's a leader in his particular organization as well as only. So he's got all of these layers and dimension. And when I talked to him and I talked to other educators about the young people who are coming behind us.
Ron Rapatalo:Yes.
Craig Aarons - Martin:There is a pseudo community that they latch on to socially, like, on social media. But I find that there's a lot of loneliness that they're also holding. There's a lot of effective psychosocial things going on underneath that I don't think we are preparing for, especially because they're gonna be taking, you know, taking over the world. Quite food. Yeah.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Tomorrow. Yes.
Ron Rapatalo:Next you know, the next academic year is not that far away, man. It's a number of months.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Look.
Ron Rapatalo:Summer boom, and then it's gonna be August, September. There you go the next school year. So wow. So let me rewind back. So one of the things around people's stories I get really curious about, especially educators like you, is what's your origin story to get into education?
Ron Rapatalo:Do you come up from a family of educators? Was it something you were around growing up? Is it something that you follow a different path than the rest of your family? I'm curious to see the trail for Craig to get to be an educator.
Craig Aarons - Martin:It was my so my father is always my father is US army and truck driver.
Ron Rapatalo:That's right.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Fifty year again. Word. Okay. Going to raise Mississippi all day. What a Woo.
Craig Aarons - Martin:From one of 12. Like, he and so, like, that that's dad's side. You know? We later found out he you know, on his side of family well, currently, it says according to African ancestry, Brazil, which means he was collared We're collared now. We wear a flag.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Know, and that's like Yes. It could have been the more it's bewilder. But that's my side. Mom's side, my mom has had several roles. So she's been in She worked for insurance companies, she worked for retail.
Craig Aarons - Martin:But my mom, landed during most of my childhood as adult educator, substitute teacher, and she did some, and she did like safe and drug free school. So she was like one of those people.
Ron Rapatalo:Woah, get out. Okay. Yeah.
Craig Aarons - Martin:But it wasn't I don't think that that was her. She was really good at that work, but that wasn't what she desired to do. It wasn't that when I decided to become a teacher. I became a teacher the moment that a T my summer school teacher, miss Madeline, I was 13, I was like 12 or 13 and she said, I want you to come and stand before this group of third graders and teach them a math lesson. And I'm like, excuse me?
Craig Aarons - Martin:Like, I'm only here to copy papers. I don't understand why you're not and she was like, I I just want you to come and teach your math lesson. So I went in. I was like, alright. Cool.
Craig Aarons - Martin:I gotta I built out a lesson, did a lesson plan, and I said, alright. Well, thing I know, man, I could do multiplication and division. So I did that lesson, that first lesson, and the kids were getting into it. They were excited. They were engaged.
Craig Aarons - Martin:I was like, what is this witchcraft? Like, y'all actually like me today. You hate me yesterday. Right. And so I found that it is very much an ego booster because I was transitioning into high school.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Okay. And because I was in a it was a very like, Louisiana is weird. We had, like, k six, seven, nine, and then you go to another school in ten. And then there were some schools that had nine through 12. So weird.
Craig Aarons - Martin:I wanted up figuring, okay. Oh. I love this experience. Let me let me shift from law, which was gonna be my track in high school to, you know, do, like, pre law and do all the programming to teaching. And so I wind up becoming a child development, specialist and Ah.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Through becoming yeah. It became That's amazing.
Ron Rapatalo:Okay. Like,
Craig Aarons - Martin:that was my track. And so Wow. I started with miss Madeline asking me to teach fifth grade, teaching, multiplication, and I I did well with it. And she wanted to
Ron Rapatalo:get that.
Craig Aarons - Martin:A lot more, and I became a teacher. So I became a teacher subsequently. I went to, yeah, find the Duluth University, got in. That was my program.
Ron Rapatalo:And then what brought you to the greater Boston area, Craig?
Craig Aarons - Martin:Oh, I wanna go to Leslie University. I wanna go
Ron Rapatalo:Word. Okay.
Craig Aarons - Martin:I knew I wanted to go. I was like, I wanna go to school because I'm a integrate art and I'm liberal arts educated. So I was
Ron Rapatalo:like Yeah.
Craig Aarons - Martin:What school is gonna do that? I wanna be Okay. But I didn't wanna be a curriculum specialist. I did not wanna create, like, curriculum and
Ron Rapatalo:Books.
Craig Aarons - Martin:And anthologies. I'm like, that is not me. No. No. No.
Craig Aarons - Martin:No. I
Ron Rapatalo:gotta ask you this question. Right? Because I think I certainly know I mean, like, no, like, urban cities that any of us are from or lived in or born in are perfect by any stretch of the imagination around race. Right? Because there's a lot of BS historically that's happened in cities.
Ron Rapatalo:But this is the native New Yorker and me being really curious. Right? As a black queer man that moved to
Craig Aarons - Martin:the
Ron Rapatalo:greater Boston area now twenty years.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Like Mhmm.
Ron Rapatalo:What was that experience bit like? What was that transition like, and how was it today? Who? Yeah. I know.
Ron Rapatalo:Loaded question. Like, do we have another fucking podcast episode to do that? I just asked this. Realized I asked the question, like, that's a question for, like, a whole episode.
Craig Aarons - Martin:It is. It is. It's cool. Yeah. Because I'm like, child, they are stories.
Ron Rapatalo:No. I'm oh, I'm I'm well, I'm sure. Alright. So let
Craig Aarons - Martin:me see how I keep this p v 13. Yeah. So when I came to yeah. Oh, gosh. There are stories.
Craig Aarons - Martin:I'm just sitting here like, oh, wow. There are these things. Okay. So came to Boston, and I knew I wanna go to Lesley University. Yes.
Craig Aarons - Martin:I there was no black and queer scene in Boston. My first family was my school family. Very diverse. Half of the people in my the first school I went, I taught at, the Nathan Hill Elementary School in Roxbury. Okay.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Most folks were, people of color and or people who were connected to the South in some way. Okay. So I was at home. So when I talk about grits and it's like, you put sugar on your grits, like, we can fight about that. And that was everything that comes in.
Ron Rapatalo:That's that's the vibe there.
Craig Aarons - Martin:I'm just saying. I'm like, where we at? Like, grit, sugar, salt. Like, what we doing? And they're like, Craig.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Anyway. But I was at home, but I wasn't at home in my body. So I was at home in the fact that, like, I'm working in my call. I know my gifting. I know how to teach all day.
Craig Aarons - Martin:You could throw me anything, I can teach it, and I will figure it out. That part wasn't a question. Showing up authentically is me. Coming into Boston, I was three hun over three hundred and some pounds. And so a lot of that was depression.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Agree. I'm like probably one hundred and seventy five pounds of depression, walking around and carrying that. Because the call of my life was at that moment was like, I know this is what I'm supposed to do. The divine like, god has me doing this.
Ron Rapatalo:But I was
Craig Aarons - Martin:coming from an I was coming from an environment where my parents still were reconciling with the me being gay. Like, that Yeah. You know, formidable sin. If you could commit one, being gay was one. Because now I ain't getting my grandkids.
Craig Aarons - Martin:I ain't getting no wife that I get to, you know, annoy, all the things. So this is what had been handed as the historical lineage of who we're supposed to be.
Ron Rapatalo:Anyway Yes. Yeah.
Craig Aarons - Martin:In Boston, being a queer man who was mostly closeted because I was like, well, what I don't wanna do is lose my license. I don't want someone to come in and take of, like, I know this is what I love to do. From a Yeah. Up the full, the fold. I'm a come in here and do my work.
Craig Aarons - Martin:I'm a work beyond me. I'm a outwork you, like Will Smith. I'm a outwork you, and I'm a prove that, like, these, regardless of situation, circumstance, or whatnot, are going to be amazing. Yes. But outside of it, like, my dating life was online and abroad and other places that weren't because people the circle is small.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. I
Craig Aarons - Martin:found that if you knew, you knew. And then I I got revelation of that in a book club where one of my former parents from the school was like, you know, we all knew. Like, we we knew, and we just loved you, and we kept moving. I was like, yeah, but that's not how that felt. And so I still got hit on by many mothers many times in a multitude of ways about I'm gonna be their child's father.
Craig Aarons - Martin:No. Yeah. You're cute, but that's not gonna be my life. And I felt and I felt a sense of disenchantment because I wanted to be a father so much. And the way that that played out for me was, like, it was the classroom.
Craig Aarons - Martin:It was never just the kids I served. Always had kids who came, who were from kindergarten, who were rec shopped downstairs. I'm like, you come up in here, I'm gonna shake your soul. You better sit down and do the I don't know what you I can't read. Well, one of them gonna read to you, baby.
Craig Aarons - Martin:But you gonna do this work because that's why you're here. You're here in my fifth grade class, and I don't care if you're fine. You're gonna read today. Right. Okay.
Ron Rapatalo:I love it. Yeah. Yeah.
Craig Aarons - Martin:I and I could say more. I'm like, it's it was not was not safe. I learned later, and it took a number of leaders to speak to me, like, why we having adult beverages in places that weren't the city to learn, like, no, it wasn't necessarily safe for me. For my white male counterparts, they could be gay and queer, do all kind of things, all kind of debauchery. For me, I had to be above the fold.
Craig Aarons - Martin:And even if people knew and they were like, yeah, like, Craig, that made sense. You know, like, you you know, you you drift. We we see that. But we love you and we love that you love this work. So we're we as long as you love this work, that's fine.
Craig Aarons - Martin:But it meant internally that I could never be I cannot bring that other element, that other -to me in the public light until I got to being a head of school at a charter community, and people wanted to leverage Black Lives Matter's principles in the in our approach to school. And they were like, well, how are you gonna feel about queer affirming? I'm like, well, what are you talking How am I? Me? Feel?
Craig Aarons - Martin:And they were like, well, like, where do you stand with this? I'm like, did you not see the pride flag in my office? And the pride flags that I put in the building, did you not know that the pride flags are me? And this one is me? Yeah.
Craig Aarons - Martin:And I'm like and I'm queer. They'll be like, you queer. You what? I was like, you don't
Ron Rapatalo:care. Okay. So I've actually called being a very very hetero man. Having gaydar, like, the the the gaydar on on heteros is quite low. I watch it, and it's like, there there are very obvious clues.
Ron Rapatalo:You didn't see you chose not to see it because it's not something you look out for when you live in this, we know, this very heteronormative world. Right? Everything is created with the conversation. I'm like, it's gonna be a man and a woman, a father and a mother. That's how what a fam it's just and so that's the default.
Ron Rapatalo:So that's what people see. They see a prideful oh, Craig is just representing. You know what I'm saying? They're not oh, but could that you know what I'm saying? And it just people don't want to seek it out or ask the question.
Ron Rapatalo:Right?
Craig Aarons - Martin:Yeah. I get it, and I understand why.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. Yeah. How's it today as a black
Craig Aarons - Martin:queer man in the area? Me, I'm I'm outside. So Yeah. What I what I will say that I'm wrestling with right now in the this fraternity, this particular chapter of the fraternity has really, shifted my perspective positively because I I'm like, well, I'm out. I'm queer.
Craig Aarons - Martin:I'm gay all day. I'm not, like, performative, you know, Bob the drag queen. I I love Bob. Don't get me wrong. But I'm like, I'm not expressive in that way.
Craig Aarons - Martin:But I'm like, that's a truth that I walk with. And so you have to figure out how you're gonna navigate that. And and Yes. One of my so my husband's one of his best friends is, like, one of their favorite people, and he's gay. Yeah.
Craig Aarons - Martin:And so when we had the conversation about whether or not I was going to apply and you know, for process, I was like, this is important to me because I'm like, there's no need for me to deal with you and try to go through a process where, like, that's an issue for you, And that's go I don't need that. I don't need that at this point in my life.
Ron Rapatalo:That's right.
Craig Aarons - Martin:There are organizations and groups in this city who are blocking and tackling and circling wagons so that I am not in the room, I am not in the conversation, that no matter how that two decades of work in research, development of programming Yes. Awards and distinctions, and all of my stated history. There's never been a rumor that Craig has done X and Y that has created a scandal. Like, the scandal is that we thought this, he was going to get a school that was going to close down and he transformed it and, you know, did things that we weren't planning for. Like, that's a scandal because you was planning for me to fail.
Craig Aarons - Martin:But for men who are cisgender and straight and many of them men of color, there is an issue that they won't sit in a room with me and talk about. And it's like, I need you to point to me what it is that I've said or done to you or in this community that has been of disregard to us, that has not contributed to the greater good or our advancement or what have you. Whatever you want to, like, challenge me on, challenge But me on I'm like, you I'm like, it's the only I'm like, it's the only other thing. But, except for the fact that I'll I I can't play basketball. That probably is also a contributor.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Yep. Malayic. I like,
Ron Rapatalo:you know, being Filipino and knowing how intense basketball culture is amongst Filipino men
Craig Aarons - Martin:Mhmm.
Ron Rapatalo:Back home and Filipino American men Mhmm. I mean, I basketball is not my best sport by any stretch of imagination. I'm, you know, I'm fast and I'm strong, but I don't have a left hand at all. My shot is sporadic at best. I can play my ass off playing football and other sports.
Ron Rapatalo:Right? You know? Because being fast and strong, football, you know, baseball, hand eye coordination, but you know, I'm I'm glad you brought to this a surface of of like what it's like today and what you're going through, which I imagine when I ask you about the creation of the Black Boy Joy Summit in a second, is I've been thinking a lot about, as a cis hetero male, how to have the conversation about masculinity, particularly the other cis hetero men, because it's something in like my experience of like watching the absolute discomfort of cis hetero men to even talk about anything that's not considered heterosexual. Just the the absolute just nature of well, I I don't talk you know, this, like, fear of, like, if I talk about it, I'm gonna become gay. I'm like, that's the dumbest shit I've ever heard in my life.
Craig Aarons - Martin:All that. You know
Ron Rapatalo:what I'm saying? And so it's one of those things that, like, I'm glad that we're talking about this because it's one of those things that so many, I think, cis hetero men, like, there's this fear of, like, I'm either gonna say the wrong thing or more deeply me talking about it, maybe there are things I have not reconciled around my own sexuality that I just don't wanna start bringing up by having this conversation
Craig Aarons - Martin:Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo:Is what I often find.
Craig Aarons - Martin:There's I I mean, there's a number of conversations I with trusted men in my life who are cisgender, who are free, and I appreciate their perspectives that have helped shape how I continue to, like, refine my engagement person to person. Yeah. A is different from person b. Yeah. And what I find is there's just a number of things that are in play.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Very much like what you shared, like, what has been your the way you've been socialized or the experiences you've had and Mhmm. How much you may have experienced in regards to, gender presentation, gender orientation, your own sexual experiences. There may be questions of, well, am I gonna be turned on by you talking about feelings and emotions? And I'm like, no. It's really like we have a commonality.
Craig Aarons - Martin:There's some things that we that resonate around navigating and managing trauma and anxiety and Right. You know, imposter syndrome. And, you know, regardless of whether or not it's your partner, your situationship, your spouse's, man, woman, like, call a commonality in trying to figure out how do we relate and connect to the next person. How do we feel seen and heard? How do we actually, you know, wrestle through some of the stuff that happened in the past that shaped our ideals, our beliefs, and the ways that we treat folks and how we treat ourselves.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Like, the lying trash that we hold from my dad holds some stuff that he can't unpack now because he is it's been ingrained for so long. So now we're having conversations today about the things he doesn't want me to hold on to because he doesn't want me to pass it on to the next generation.
Ron Rapatalo:And, like Oh, wow.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Like microdosing me on, like, yeah. Like, I had like, he's emoting now in a way that he can't emote. For forty years of my forty years of my life, he is emoting. Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo:I think you hit the core of it, right, because I think there's something you know, I have the privilege now of facilitating men of Colorfinity's space.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Mhmm.
Ron Rapatalo:And I'm not shocked, but I find the pattern of being vulnerable Mhmm. No matter where you fall on the gender spectrum and identifying as a man and some you know, on the the gender spectrum, that the idea of being vulnerable is really hard for men of color, generally speaking.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Mhmm.
Ron Rapatalo:And I think I rewind with my own experience. I know this for a fact. If I wasn't raised under the tutelage and brilliance of my sisters and my mom and so many women of color, particularly black women, I don't think I would have the emotional intelligence I have today. And I'm still a man at the end of the day, and so I have my biases. Right?
Ron Rapatalo:Because there's certain privileges and things I still take on with it that that bring some, like, spots in how I handle myself. I'm like, oh, hold up. Oh my god. I just oh my god. Jesus, Ron.
Ron Rapatalo:But the idea of being vulnerable and emoting like your father has thought it to do with you is is such a deep, like, pattern of, like, it is okay to showcase how you're feeling, and that in fact makes you more, quote, unquote, masculine.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Mhmm.
Ron Rapatalo:Right? Because I think that's at the heart of it. You know what I'm saying? It's just like, gotta be like this, and everything's tough. I'm you know what I mean?
Ron Rapatalo:It's like, that's I think when I enter spaces like that that feel very hyper masculine, especially where I work out, like gym culture is its own thing of, like, you know, guys being guys. I'm just like, I'm sometimes really thrown off because I'm like I actually have found that in my gym experiences, especially where I work out, most of the folks I work out and power lift with are women. Yeah. And I have to say it's an infinitely more enjoyable experience than if it was a bunch of, like, if I'm certain, like, grunting men. Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo:Because I've just found, like, the collaborators with being able to talk and, like, try to help each other out. Not saying that, you know, men wouldn't help each other out in those environments, a parallel thing, but I find it's a such a different dynamic. And I think I seek those dynamics because that's the what I've grown up in. And I think I'm curious about this because working in K-twelve education, so much of my experience has been working around women. So I think it also has doubled down on this view of wanting to be around women because I found, for me, a lot of just I found more in common oftentimes around emoting and being vulnerable.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would, what I would add is this is a it's a curiosity I'm exploring. Like, I in in my thread right now, I shared with my line brothers.
Craig Aarons - Martin:I said, look. I generally don't trust men like that. And I'm telling y'all and, like, I'm I'm I'm kinda breaking my code a little bit. But I said, look. I wanna do some things that I I that are uncomfortable for me.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Generally, when I go to the gym, I go and do what I need to do. Even my best friend who is, one of my best friends, straight guy, you know, lifts, does all the things. And he's like, Craig, like, we can go to the gym and do the things. Like, we've been we've been best friends for, like, over a decade.
Ron Rapatalo:Right.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Craig, I will show you how to do a and y. And I'm like, yeah, that's cute. I don't know how I feel about us Right. By doing this thing. Yeah.
Craig Aarons - Martin:And there's layers and levels to this.
Ron Rapatalo:Like, in
Craig Aarons - Martin:a way, is we're not a threat to each other. There is a regard of respect and love for one another. We've talked about some deep shit, some some stuff that is hard things. We have talked about some of the toughest things in regards to relationships, showing up, intimately in ways that we we desire with partners or situationships or whatever we're doing. We talked about health related things that are going on for us, stuff that's going on in our bloodline.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Like, have talked about these shit. And all seeing each other in in ways that are, you know, most embarrassing for, you know, most other folks, but we Yeah. Create a space. And I think that at least the way I'm unpacking it in a way that is I'm trying to free myself from this dogma that I have digested is if I hold if I center on, like, I am opening myself up to someone helping me to be a better person because they're invested in the way that I'm invested. We both are trying to do the thing to see to maximize the best the best parts of ourselves.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Mhmm. And we are making a decision to do that together. Fail forward in whatever ways. And we leave we leave the other stuff to the side, or we address it if it's like, it's awkward as shit to actually, you know, do this or see this or whatever the thing is. And then we break down whatever that is.
Craig Aarons - Martin:But because we, as men, of or, you know, sexual orientation or whatnot, don't necessarily make that space and grace for each other to say, Hey, you might be you may be able to lift a 100 more pounds than I can or bench more than I can. -That that means that I'm less than because -They get right. This I can do. And instead of us just addressing and saying, hey, I would love to figure out, like, how what has been your journey to get to raising this amount of weight or doing this? We shy and say, like, no.
Craig Aarons - Martin:I'm all set. Like, I'm not going to. Which means we lock out of an opportunity to build relationship. We lock ourselves out of getting the knowledge that could be helpful to us, and we were and we find ourselves, like, shying back into, like, our childhood selves versus getting the wrong work.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. It makes me think. I'm not going to dive too much into this topic, at least for the duration of this time. But it makes me think, what does an inclusive space look like for fitness? Right?
Ron Rapatalo:And I've seen that when spaces often get built, it's like yoga can feel very, quote unquote, dominated. And so to have brogue or something for men to feel comfortable in, that's like you know meeting them where they are quote unquote right? And the same for like women who are like lifting weights right? One of my home girls who was on this podcast is like episode three, Tina Tang, does a like you know a women's fitness class for like weight lifting Right? Because oftentimes, like, you know, I think you know, the thing I've seen across lots of fitness classes is, like, you know, it's easy for quote unquote the bro culture to infiltrate said class, which is the grunting, the be you know what I'm saying?
Ron Rapatalo:That stuff the very sometimes I even hit, like, the performative stuff. Like, I've been that dude in the summer. If, like, it's hot, the shirt comes off. Yeah. Because because it's hot.
Ron Rapatalo:And so also I wanna show off my body, but, it's hot now, like sticky clothes on me. We're like, oh, damn. Okay, Rami, didn't go through this finisher. What what now? What now?
Ron Rapatalo:Hey.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Love it. I love that.
Ron Rapatalo:Hey. You know what I'm saying? But it's nice to sometimes, I think, you know, have a class where, like, people show up as they are. You just do what you do, and people just gonna be like, do it. It's okay.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Yeah. Well, you have to set the tone for that. Right?
Ron Rapatalo:That's that's really what it is. Yeah. Yeah. But I wanna transition, Craig, and talk to you about the creation of the Black Boy Joy Summit.
Craig Aarons - Martin:So Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo:I'd love for the audience to hear a little bit about that and what's going on with it and, you know, what you're trying to achieve with it.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Oh, wow. Yeah. Full Joy Summit was the experience that ultimately, it's like, I wanted to create something from for the sons that I would have at some point. And Oh, Beautiful. I'm I'm getting emotional about it right now because, like, there's more it's been a full it's been a full day.
Craig Aarons - Martin:So, Kurt, I I don't have sons. I that I know of. And if one exists, like, you know, it'd be nice for them to show up. But, you know, have it there.
Ron Rapatalo:Oh, is it gonna be a little Maury conversation? You know, read the back like Craig Aarons? You are the father. Hulk.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Look. Look. We'll we'll have a part two. So, yeah, this experience was like, this is the this is the love offering I wanna offer to, boys, specifically boys of color, to curate this experience where they get to interface with folks who have figured it out and whatever that looks like. I'm And not talking about people who are, like, 7 figure CEOs of, like, these major brands, but I'm talking about our unsung heroes of, hey, I was homeless, and, like, I now have this really dope business of doing, coaching, or I am actually, you know, I have this fitness studio that I run or, you know, I am doing this really interesting work about bias and AI and I would love to, you know, have you experience this, technology in real time.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Talk to me about this app that I've developed. And what I found was I wanted to put young people in front of folks who were doing this work. And I wanted to offer like workshops, I wanted them to be affirmed and see themselves in particular ways. So like the the the the, swag we give them to some of the exhibits that are present, that they get to have a new narrative, that they have a bigger you a bigger network, and that they're in proximity to people who also didn't have all their shit together, who are still trying to figure it out today, but are folks who are in the community who are doing incredible work. And I want you to ensure that we had a space like that.
Craig Aarons - Martin:So partnering with people and organizations from across the city in Boston. I've done this now two years. This is gonna be year three. Okay. And then this point, we're, like, expanding.
Craig Aarons - Martin:So, like, now we have a digital universe because what I found
Ron Rapatalo:was we
Craig Aarons - Martin:got people from Chicago, DC, Pittsburgh, Georgia Atlanta, Georgia, Chicago. Like, we've had folks fly in this year to this event. So we're like, okay, how do we expand this so people still have access to what we're doing? And so now we have a digital universe. So like I'm doing a live at five later in a in a few minutes, and I'm doing, we're doing masterclass and stuff like that.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Because we wanna just make sure that, again, from, for mothers and fathers and grandparents and caregivers and organizations that hold spaces for boys and men, that you have a place to that can be a hearth, for nourishment, but it's also a space that, you can connect, you can build. You can say, hey. I got this wonderful project that I'm doing. I would love to see if anybody from the universe wants to come partake, be a part, be in the ecosystem in whatever ways. And I just want us to continue to be a connected hub.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Like, we're not trying to replace anything. We're just trying to say, hey. Y'all are doing this dope work. We still have people on the ground who don't know you exist. Let let's plug you into the the offerings that you got.
Ron Rapatalo:I love the connectors. This is why you and I get along, Craig, because I think what you and I enjoy doing is connecting disparate spaces and bringing it together in one place so that people could be connected in ways that they may not have ordinarily been as easy to connect to. Yeah. I love that you're doing that, man. Well, I'm cognizant of time because I heard the cue about your live at five, and and my watch, I'm like, it's about five minutes to five, and I still gotta ask you the question of the damn podcast.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Yes.
Ron Rapatalo:What is your Ronderings? What's the lesson or value you wanna share today? The
Craig Aarons - Martin:lesson I'm sitting with right now is is connected to what I wrote about this week about, you know, taking l's. And, the l is necessary for elevation. Like, I I stand on that and believe that. There's so much that I I I keep telling people, like, I yes. You see me outside.
Craig Aarons - Martin:You see me in different cities and states and doing all kinds of things, and a lot of that is me subcontracting and working for a company that has me going out places. And I'm I'm saying this, and I'm I'm not gonna name the company, but I'm like, I am not working at my value. Like, I'm not getting paid what I'm valued. Like, I know. Mhmm.
Craig Aarons - Martin:But I offer, like, pre like, you are going to have a a really great experience, and I keep getting, like, like, Craig, we want you in our ecosystem. We love what you're doing, and people are, like, re upping on what I'm doing for this company. And so it looks great outside. You know, fraternity. Craig is doing that.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Craig's got a book out. Oh, Craig's got two books out. So it looks great. But I'm like, you don't know that I have also had, like, a 100 outreach emails, text messages, DMs, and heard nothing and got nothing. You don't know that I got I've put out 25 proposals for sponsorship dollars for Blackboard Joy Summit and no one is answering.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Like, you don't know how many referrals and warm leads I've hit, and said, hey, friend, can you just connect me to somebody? And people are like, Craig, I don't even know who to connect you with because, like, it's really it's really crazy right now. And so what I am holding onto is I'm staying centered on what I know is called to do, and I'm still building forward. And I believe that who needs to meet me at whatever point they are in their life and where I am at my life is intentional. And that at some point, while it may feel like a valley moment, it's absolutely designed for me to rise.
Craig Aarons - Martin:And I'm supposed to hold on to this as I'm rising because, ultimately, it may be a testimony for someone who's going through their own task. And they can't they won't be able to achieve the breakthrough they need until they experience the breakdown. So, like, I've experienced a lot of breakdown. Yes. But my breakthrough is that at some point, all of this will foster and flourish and harvest in the ways it's supposed to to meet people where they need to be because my my my work and my role is to help cocreate spaces where folks can thrive.
Craig Aarons - Martin:And
Ron Rapatalo:that's I love that. I'm taking l's in order to elevate. I mean, makes it's, it's super catchy. I love that as your Ronderings Craig. Well, before we go Yes, sir.
Ron Rapatalo:How do people find you? What would you like to promote?
Craig Aarons - Martin:Oh, I am I'm on social, so I'm like, I you know, I am Craig Aarons Martin is probab that's my Instagram and my TikTok, and I'm on LinkedIn, Craig C Martin. Find me if you want. If you used to put in, like, Blackboard Joy Summit, you're gonna see me. Yeah. I'm just saying.
Craig Aarons - Martin:So and and, you know, for anyone who hears this, like, I am a servant. So, like, I will make space and take time for folks regardless of what it is because it's important for us to do that.
Ron Rapatalo:And so I want
Craig Aarons - Martin:people to know that, like, I'll do this to be performative and flashy. Like, I understand what it means to be behind the scenes and not know your next step. And if you need somebody who can just sit with you and sit in it, I'm your guy.
Ron Rapatalo:That's one of the things I love about you, Craig. I know you're one of the people that tend to gravitate towards people who act like us Mhmm. That if asked to have a conversation about what's next in life or career, we don't say no to those conversations. And I think it's one of the things that allows us to be in the center of lots of things, but also it's the very small behind the scenes way to be of service to people.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate that that you've done that for me. Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo:You're good people, and the end of it all, like, it it pays itself forward. And to know that you do that for people a ton, for me, that makes me, like, even feel warmer inside. Right? Because, you know, it's about we're always each of when we're in the roles that we're in, we need support too, and at the same time, people like us also gonna pay it forward a good deal, so it's good to see we do both ends. Yes, sir.
Ron Rapatalo:Well Craig, I appreciate you so much for being on the Ronderings. So in the words of one of my favorite sports people all time, Dion Sanders, we always come hot.
Craig Aarons - Martin:Okay.
Ron Rapatalo:Amazing guests like Craig Aarons Martin. Peace, y'all. Craig said something that stirred me in every ounce of my body. Taking l's is necessary for elevation. 100 outreach emails, 25 sponsorship proposals rejected.
Ron Rapatalo:Rooms he should be in, closed. Work he knows is worth more, undervalued, and yet he keeps building. The Black Boy Joy Summit isn't just an event. It's for the sons he hopes to have one day. It's for boys of color need more see need to see more than celebrities and 7 figure CEOs.
Ron Rapatalo:They need to see unsung heroes who survived, struggled, and still showed up. In a week where I buried my nephew, I'm reminded how fragile life is, how urgent our work must be. We're in the valley season, doors aren't opening. If the world's applause doesn't match your calling, stay centered. Breakdown often precedes breakthrough.
Ron Rapatalo:This is Ronderings. Peace. Thank you for listening to today's Ronderings. I enjoyed hanging out with me and my guests, and I hope you leave with something worth chewing on. If it made you smile, think, or even roll your eyes in a good way, pass it along to someone else.
Ron Rapatalo:I'm Ron Rapatalo, and until next time, keep pondering, keep laughing, and keep becoming. Podcaststhatmatter.org.