272: The Cold Pitch That Landed JoAnne a $7800 Freelance Project

What if you could skip the job application—and still land the client? That’s exactly what JoAnne Hopkins did when she spotted a job post on Indeed, did a little sleuthing, and cold-pitched the founder directly. The result? A $7,800 freelance project doing what she loves most: tech design. In this episode, JoAnne shares how she turned burnout from running her own brand into clarity, confidence, and a booked-out freelance business she actually enjoys. If you’ve ever questioned your niche, your path, or your pricing—this episode will give you real talk, real strategy, and a whole lot of permission to do things your own way.

Resources:
266: From Self-Doubt and a Factory Job to Freelance Biz Owner: Caroline’s One-Year Transformation

About JoAnne:
JoAnne is an apparel technical design leader with over a decade of experience specializing in men’s swim and surf, as well as women’s swim, surf, activewear, resort, and lifestyle apparel. She has collaborated with both established brands and start-ups to bring exceptional products to market, with a strong focus on achieving the perfect fit.

Connect with JoAnne:
Email her at [e-mail] 
Follow her on Instagram

Connect on LinkedIn  

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Creators and Guests

Host

Heidi Weinberg {Sew Heidi}

Heidi (aka Sew Heidi) is a self-taught freelance fashion designer who built a six-figure business without a degree, portfolio, or industry connections. After years of burnout in the fashion industry, she went freelance—and never looked back. Now, she helps other designers ditch toxic jobs, land better clients, and build flexible careers they love. Through her podcast, courses, and resources, Heidi has helped thousands of designers take control of their fashion path and finally get paid what they’re worth.

What is Fashion Designers Get Paid: Build Your Fashion Career On Your Own Terms?

This is a show for burnt-out fashion designers (and TDs, PDs, patternmakers, textile designer and beyond) who want more flexibility in their career while still doing work they love.

You'll learn how to build a freelance fashion business, so you can do the work you love on your own terms. Freelancing in fashion is the only way to get freedom in your day (instead of being tied to a desk).

Whether you want to earn extra money on the side, fund your fashion brand, or replace your salary, the FDGP podcast will help you get there. Listen in for actionable tips and strategies to kickstart or grow your career as a freelance fashion designer, build your confidence, and create the life you want.

Hosted by $100k+ fashion freelancer Sew Heidi, the show features interviews and strategy sessions with successful freelance fashion designers from around the world who've ditched toxic fashion jobs and taken control of their own destinies. This is the only place to get REAL insights from REAL freelancers who have built REAL careers on their own terms. (Formerly the Successful Fashion Freelancer podcast.)

Heidi [00:00:00]:
What if you could spot a freelance opportunity hiding in plain sight and turn it into a $7,800 client? That's exactly what Joanne Hopkins did when she saw a brand looking for help on Indeed. Instead of getting lost in a thousand of the one click applications, she did some smart sleuthing and pitched herself directly. In this episode, she shares how she used clarity, confidence, and decades of experience to land the project on her terms. And when she's finally building a freelance business that works for her, Joanne's story will inspire you to stop playing small and start getting paid for what you're actually great at. You're going to love this episode. Let's get to it. All right, welcome to the podcast, Joanne. Let's talk about you landed a $7,800 project with a brand who posted on Indeed as like a job, which I never see these things turning into freelance.

Heidi [00:00:52]:
And you actually like went around the Indeed job posting, found the guy, and sent him arguably a cold pitch to which he responded epically. You shared the response with me. So let's talk about the opportunity and how you landed it and dig into all of that. Sure.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:01:12]:
Like you said, there was a job posting for an Indeed job, and I do see a lot of independent people posting jobs on Indeed. And I'm pretty high discernment. I've been in the industry a long time and for me it's very easy to see if I'm really looking at a job posting or if I'm really looking at a freelance opportunity. And I noticed this read more like a potential freelance opportunity. And the gentleman didn't have his name in the post, but he did post it under his company. So I did a little CIA work that so many of us ladies are so good at, and I looked up his company, I confirmed his name and just did a little research in general. And then instead of responding to the Indeed job posting, I just sent him an email with the same the subject line had the name of the Indeed job posting and I referred back to the Indeed listing and I called, pitched him and he responded within 24 hours and was like, holy cow. First of all, stalker much.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:02:28]:
Second of all, way to cold bitch me. Third of all, let's talk. So and it all went very quickly. We had a discovery call within a week and he had signed the contract within 10 days and he had paid a 50% deposit. I think within that same time frame.

Heidi [00:02:46]:
Oh my gosh. Now I just want to throw the disclaimer out there for people listening. It hardly ever happens this smoothly and this quickly.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:02:53]:
Very, very true. Yeah.

Heidi [00:02:56]:
But I love that you skirted around Indeed because there's so many and I think if they've got the one click apply and it just. You get bombarded. Cause I've posted job listings to hire not for freelance but for full time on Indeed and on LinkedIn and you get bombarded with applications and the one click applies. So you really stood out by going around and taking the extra effort to find out who he was and pitch him.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:03:24]:
Yeah.

Heidi [00:03:25]:
Do you remember what you wrote in the email pitch to him?

JoAnne Hopkins [00:03:29]:
I think it was pretty straightforward. I just referenced the Indeed post and let him know I thought he was looking for more of a freelance opportunity, that maybe he was a startup and just any additional touches I can make it personal. I acknowledged that I was going around the Indeed post and pitching him cold and thanked him in advance for any grace he could give me. It was pretty quick and to the point.

Heidi [00:03:53]:
Okay.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:03:54]:
Yeah, it was nothing special. Just kind of like if you were having a conversation and you bumped into somebody on a sidewalk, you might touch them on the shoulder and be like, I'm so sorry, I didn't mean to. It was just very, very sort of casual like that.

Heidi [00:04:06]:
Okay, gotcha. And then how did you. Did he like have a set budget or how did you ultimately quote the project and what was the 7,800 for?

JoAnne Hopkins [00:04:15]:
He is sort of in process. So he had something that resembles a working sample and he had been wear testing. He had a contact who was interested in apparel and had some sewing skills. So he had something of substance to work with and he just needs end to end design. So design and development. There are pieces. I was very upfront with him. I told him I'd help guide him, but there are areas that I really just don't enjoy doing.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:04:45]:
So he could hire out for those and I could give him guidance as to who he could hire in the process, but that I would tackle. I love td. TD is my jam. So that I didn't want him to hire an outside TD because I would like to take on that piece. And I basically wrote him. I don't know, it was like a six page proposal. We broke it down into stages because he kind of had like four or five styles he thinks he wants to develop. But he's also new to the industry and I told him to dial it down to 1.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:05:12]:
We would perfect his P0 sample and would go from there because, you know, there's a lot of education that needed to happen. He didn't count or anything. I just you know, I know my workflow and how fast I work and what's involved. So I was just very articulate about what my fees included and what they don't and just laid it all out and sent it over, and he was like, sold, to be clear. I think he's originally in the real estate and restaurant industry, so I think he's used to seeing very high price tags for things. He's an entrepreneur himself already in other industries, so I do think that that helped. Okay. And so my scope of work is basically anything I want to tackle, and then I'll help him find experts for things I don't.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:05:58]:
We've already contracted with members inside the community, so shout out to Caroline. She made our first sample. We just got it back with Beautiful look.

Heidi [00:06:08]:
Caroline Coleman.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:06:09]:
Yes. Yes.

Heidi [00:06:10]:
Amazing. She is awesome. I worked with. I worked with her hands on inside, fastrack Turbo, and she is phenomenal. I'm glad to hear that. She's great.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:06:18]:
Yeah. Lots of fun. Lots of fun. So, yeah, we're just working through the process, you know, from where we're at. We just got her sample. It was very good. Lots of things to be happy about. We're going to do some iterations in 3D before we take it to another sample, and I think that we'll get an approval on that.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:06:35]:
And, you know, we need to find him some vendors. I think he wants to manufacture in the US which is good for the process he's been on. And, you know, we'll go from there. Eventually, I'll probably pass him off to somebody else, because I really love to do td. I don't mind doing other things, but. But I'm a td, girly.

Heidi [00:06:51]:
Yeah. Okay, so what exact parts of the process? You said I really want to do all the td. Like, what parts did you tell him? You know, this is not my expertise or my zone of genius or my biggest interest, but I can help you find other people. What exactly was that sourcing and then these early rounds?

JoAnne Hopkins [00:07:07]:
Sourcing is pretty easy because I worked in athletic apparel, so I know the fabrics, and he wanted something very specific. He obviously needed low MOQs, and he wanted us, you know, fabric suppliers. So that narrowed it down to two. So that was easy. But when it comes to, like, I do not. I didn't want to sew the sample. I mean, I have a complete setup to do that. But I.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:07:31]:
The thing. The bargain there for me is I really hate cutting, and, like, I really, really, really hate cutting, and that will keep me from sitting on my sewing machine. So, you know, we hired obviously out for that and I'll probably help him hire out for any production piece of it. And then like the sourcing from factories, he's really, I think, far from being able to hire a factory. And so in that piece, I'll probably, you know, have him, you know, hire that out mostly. But a lot of the front end stuff, you know, to even get a factory vested is TD stuff. You have to have a product in hand, especially if you're going to manufacture in the mean a good tech pack, which we know. I also really would like for him to just manufacture the one short, not the five style.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:08:22]:
I really would like that for him. But we'll see where he lands. He's. He wants to do like, you know, six colors and five styles. That's like slow your roll.

Heidi [00:08:32]:
I love that you're acting as a consultant to him too. Right? Like not. Yep, I can do all this and let's just do all that. But you're really trying to advise him on the best path for success. And I do agree it's starting small and starting slow as you learn the ropes and figure out the market.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:08:46]:
Yep. I definitely thought about that when I pitched him, you know, when I said to him, you know, the proposal, knowing I have to hold his hand and teach him some things and also sometimes have uncomfortable conversations. And we were there a little bit on the fabric aspect because, you know, he has a lot of expectations which very much narrow his options. But he didn't want narrow options. And I was like, well, you know, your reputation matters here. You can't get a reputation for being difficult as a new, you know, entry. New. New to the industry because you won't get, you know, good partners that will go the distance with you.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:09:23]:
So you kind of have to choose your battles. He chose to battle with me on that. That's better to battle with me than, you know, a different kind of vendor. So we had a couple, under a couple of uncomfortable conversations since then, but it's been really, really good. He's been a really good client.

Heidi [00:09:37]:
Yeah, that's amazing. So you're doing TD and helping with initial sampling and development with a little bit of sourcing. It sounds like for one short style.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:09:52]:
Well, he wants all of his styles in the same fabric, just different color because they're running shorts for men.

Heidi [00:09:58]:
Okay.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:09:59]:
So we. He's got several selections from one fabric supplier because he's only two fabric suppliers he could possibly choose from given all of his list of conditions. So he sent me his like pre. Pre Pre. Almost not a sample, proto sample. And I recreated a production pattern or, you know, a pre production pattern to work with so that I could send it to Caroline and for the sample maker. So I did a td, I did the sample or the, the pattern and then I'll go through all the fit comments, I'll get the product as ready as I can to the point where, you know, he's ready to pitch, you know, his work to different factories. But that's documentation.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:10:48]:
So that's, you know, the tech pack. And you know, I think we're kind of working on. We're going back and forth about grade rules and things like that, but that all falls under, under td. So, yeah, I think a lot of this project is. The bulk of it is td. I think the sourcing aspect and the finding the right vendor for him are going to be easier than this TV part. Just because he's new and he needs to understand what he is making.

Heidi [00:11:15]:
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so you were really transparent with him initially about the stuff that you do and don't do and what you would outsource. How are you handling some of that outsourcing? I know you said you're finding people in the fast community, but are you like, are you managing that and getting a separate price and then kind of bundling that in or are you just connecting him with the person and then they're directly working with him one on one for pricing? Because a lot of people have these questions about how to pull in other freelancers with their clients.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:11:43]:
Sure. In this case, I would say it's a little bit unusual. I'm keeping him away from costing and pricing at the moment because he keeps saying wild things like, I don't care what the shorts cost, we'll just, you know, change the retail price. And I'm like, that's not untrue and wildly untrue at the same time. And so I'm just sort of stripping away anything that's going to confuse him in the process. But in terms of finding partners for him, one, I've done a lot of US manufacturing, so I have some people I might connect him to. Of course, there are other, you know, there are members of the community that might be interested. So when we get there, when I feel like he has a product that a factory would pick up and it wouldn't be a headache to anybody, we'll start.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:12:29]:
I'll tap my individual resources, I'll tap the community and I'll have to present options to him because he does like options that's just his nature. And then we're just going to get real about cost. Right. We know what the sample will cost, and I can give him an idea of what his factory costs are going to be. But ultimately, if he picks, I want to potentially work with three vendors, and he's going to have to roll out some dough to get that done. It's going to be up to him. So I let. I try to let him guide the process as much as possible while not letting him go too astray, if that makes sense.

Heidi [00:13:05]:
Right.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:13:05]:
Yeah. We're gonna have our hands in a lot of buckets for a minute.

Heidi [00:13:09]:
Yeah, for sure. So, like, for example, Caroline, who did the sample sewing.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:13:15]:
Yep.

Heidi [00:13:16]:
Yes. We love her. She's been on the podcast, too, you guys. Everyone listening would love her episode. We'll link to that in the show notes. But did you just connect him directly with her and then she put a proposal together for him independent, or she kind of work under you and then you manage that?

JoAnne Hopkins [00:13:35]:
I gave her the option. So I initially reached out, advised her what we were looking for, asked her if she was interested. I let him know what my recommendation was, and based on conversations, I tapped a couple other sample makers. But I thought Caroline would be not only a great person, but a great personality fit if we did need to loop him in to the process. Ultimately, Caroline decided it would be better for the pipeline for her and I work together, and I could just report back to him kind of in a PD function. So essentially, she wrote me the proposal. He, you know, made those payments, I think, actually, via Venmo. And then I just made sure everybody, you know, everybody paid with their hate.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:14:13]:
And. But I'm the one. And I signed the proposal from Caroline, Carol and I. And I did let you know. And I can work both ways. I don't really mind. I think that everything comes out in the wash eventually. And having a good vendor, they want to work directly with the client.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:14:29]:
I'm okay with that. If they want me to be the intermediary, I'm okay with that. So I try to be flexible because I think both can work.

Heidi [00:14:35]:
Yeah, absolutely. Well, thanks for sharing that. I just. It comes up a lot. So I was curious how you. For this project.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:14:40]:
Yep. Now you.

Heidi [00:14:44]:
I know because you've told me an email you have done a lot of permalancing or you've been in the industry for a long time. Where do you live?

JoAnne Hopkins [00:14:52]:
I'm currently in Tampa, Florida. Originally from Chicago, lived in Columbus, Ohio for 15 years, Louisiana to Tampa. I've been I've been everywhere.

Heidi [00:15:02]:
Okay.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:15:03]:
I've been in Tampa for 10 years now.

Heidi [00:15:05]:
Okay. Yeah, you've done a lot of permalancing and if I'm not mistaken, it's more recent ish that you're leaning into more of the real freelancing, where you're working independently with clients, when and where you want, you're putting proposals together, setting the prices, et cetera. Can you talk a little bit about your past and permanencing and how you had to phase out of that and into freelancing?

JoAnne Hopkins [00:15:36]:
Sure. It's really convoluted for me because there's a lot of pieces and parts that sort of fit together like a very unique puzzle piece. And I have done a lot of permanency, but I've also done a lot of, I guess what we would call OG freelancing. So especially like when I was in Chicago and when I was in Columbus, I did work with a lot of indie people developing, you know, specific products here and there. I worked on contract in, you know, in bridal, I've done alterations, I've worked in tailor shops. I've done a lot of different things. I have some celebrity clientele. I've worked as a costume designer at a couple of films.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:16:14]:
I mean, I've been all over the place and everywhere since I've been here in Tampa. There's a transition period because in the middle of my career I launched this swimwear brand. And so I had my own swimwear company for about, I don't know, eight, nine, 10 years. I did pretty well. You know, I was selling to 14 countries. Not my bad. Yeah, I really did. Like, I.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:16:42]:
We launched on Instagram. I think we were like one of the first 10 companies to actually build a whole pipeline on Instagram. And within six months I like, I had like more than a quarter million dollars in sales. It was a whole thing. My company grew too fast. Like there is. That is a thing I couldn't scale appropriately. I burned out really quick.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:17:04]:
And then when I came to Tampa, I was like, I'm taking a break. A well earned break. It was like a life break, you know, without getting too nitty gritty with like, I put my business on pause. A very long term relationship ended. We were just like resetting the universe. And when I got to Tampa, I was like, oh my God, I never want to own my own brand ever again. I don't want to do that anymore. I don't want to go back to that.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:17:29]:
So I had to reinvent what I wanted to do. Because I love apparel and I wanted to have the same power. So for a while I just like did this like really cool, fun thing. So here in Tampa they have something called Gasparilla. It's a series of parades and you can think of it like Mardi Gras but for pirates. And it's like been going on for like 120 years and there are almost 100 different crews and they all wear these wacky, crazy costumes. For the first few years in Tampa, I designed small collections for these crews. They all have themes.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:18:06]:
And I did genuine contract work through an organization that's here local in Tampa. And so I did everything from sourcing to sewing costumes like literally end to end. And that took its own course. But I had an opportunity then to work Permalance for Nike and Fanatics. So it was there that I learned a lot of things as we do in between. I'm always working in small projects here and there. But it was right before I spent the year at Ike or at Fanatics on Nike's jersey team that I actually invested in your program and right sized myself, if you will, and was like, oh, okay, I've been working upstream all these years. Shame on me.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:19:00]:
And through that I started reorganizing and refining what I wanted to do and who I was. This is where I accepted that I love tv, that I literally can give design away. I could give sort of thing away. I could everything away but greatest effects and patterns. And so I stripped that away and then just started. I don't know, I feel like it was a really like personal journey. It's not like I went out into the world was like, find contracts, find customers. I think it was a really strong refining process for me, learning myself again after all these years in the industry.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:19:42]:
And I think that's really important. I think you talk about mindset and clarity and I think that mindset and clarity have taken me far and away, farther than any other hard set skill that I might have at Apparel. But I. People have this really weird way of finding me. So I haven't done a whole lot of marketing in the traditional sense. But you know, while I was at Fanatics, I was working with a couple of different agencies in Los Angeles as a, like an individual pattern maker for people that were, they were producing their garments domestically. And so I mean, just like weird little side projects here and there. And then, yeah, my contract at Fanatics and Nike ended.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:20:32]:
And since then it's been a focus on, you know, again, what do I want to do? Who do I want to be. And we just get refined. I kind of feel like in my freelance work, I want to do men's swim or men's active. I don't want to do women's swim or women's active. I want to do TV for men's swim. So it just. It keeps. I feel like every day is evolving.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:20:57]:
Every day I get a different opportunity to decide whether, you know, yes, this is in alignment. No, this is not in alignment. And I think I gave you a very vague, scattered answer, but I think that's the best I could do.

Heidi [00:21:12]:
I think you did great. I love. I mean, I hear you kind of thinking out loud and processing through the steps and the journey you've been through, as well as the personal development you've experienced along the way of finding what you want for your life and what you want to do in this industry. Side note, I love this niche of technical design for men's swimwear. Like, it's so beautifully niche. I am booming here with this idea.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:21:49]:
Yeah, no, I worked. So I did between somewhere, like, right after the pandemic, I did work for a swimwear company that is local here in Tampa. They produce their vertically integrated. So they do all their manufacturing right here in Clearwater, and that's where I first got my hands on them. And swim. And when I say get my hands on, what are you talking about? Itty, bitty, teeny, weeny, tiny men.

Heidi [00:22:17]:
Little banana hammocks.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:22:19]:
Yes, yes, absolutely. Sometimes not even a banana or a hammock.

Heidi [00:22:24]:
Okay. Gone.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:22:25]:
Got it.

Heidi [00:22:26]:
Got the memo, Got the visual.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:22:28]:
Yeah. Sorry about that. But it's. It's, you know, it's a. It's an engineering challenge. Right. So. Yeah, yeah.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:22:38]:
I love. And I. I love men's. Men's swim. I don't know. It's. It's really fun. And actually that pairs nicely towards, like, men, like, things like the running shorts that.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:22:47]:
Products that I just recently got. Because, yeah. I mean, it's not their sisters, our brothers, if you will, you know, or maybe even cousins. They're not identical, but they are adjacent enough that you can, you know, I can tip my feet in the pool and feel like I'm going to deliver a good work product, so.

Heidi [00:23:03]:
Totally, totally. I love that. All right. You said a couple things I want to really dig into. First. You said, you got to Tampa, and you said, I never want to have my own brand again. Talk to us a little bit about that, because a lot of people want their own brand. And I'm curious to hear more about.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:23:21]:
I'm Willing to get like a raw and give you like the full tea. So if I drop an F bomb here or there, you know, correct me if I'm not allowed to.

Heidi [00:23:30]:
Okay, you're allowed to.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:23:33]:
I had this really unique opportunity come to my front door initially as I was transitioning out of the first 10 years of my career, which was mostly in bridal, I had an opportunity to make something that stretched. And back then they didn't teach you pattern making in fashion school for stretch. So I had to learn that mix myself. I found a mentor and I found I really like that. So that sort of kicked off my journey into working with non woven materials, stretch materials in swim and athletic and that stuff. And my initial desire was to get more flexibility. I am a single mom, a three time boy mom, and my kids span millennials to gen alpha. So I had a lot of varied needs in my family.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:24:15]:
I couldn't. I really had a lot of people to think about, not just me and my career. So it felt like maybe I would have more control of my career if I just launched a brand. I really at the time, this is like, you know, way ahead of the curve. I really wanted to launch an all cotton athletic athleisure brand, which is starting to pop off now again. But so I started planning for that. You know, I partnered a little bit with, you know, some known industry professionals. I don't like to name drop, but you know, you've had some of these people on your podcast, Daniel, if you know, you know.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:24:57]:
And somewhere along that initial process, somebody else came to me and now very, very like famous brand. And almost anybody would know them if I said their name was like, I need this very specific swim product made for me. Can you do it? And we went on this adventure together and had this little like side business for a handful of months and I was like, I really like this. And then all of a sudden, people I did not know just started pouring on asking me to make things for them. And this is like at the dawn of Instagram, right?

Heidi [00:25:32]:
So.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:25:34]:
I had a couple of ladies in this niche industry. It was okay. So we were making swim for the stage for female bodybuilders as the bikini division was becoming a thing in the NPC and the WBFF and all of these. So that was sort of the niche. But then I had all these young ladies that were like, I really loved the way these suits fit me. I was like, okay, I'm doing something right. And so we sort of employed them in an influencer capacity. Before influencers were the thing and they went out and got orders and orders and gangbusters.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:26:17]:
And before, like, within three months, I was like in full business. And over the course of those 10 years, like I said, we were selling direct to customer. We had a full custom order system online. We were selling to 14 or 15 different countries. And with the speed that it happened, it was virtually unscalable. I know that now. I learned the pieces and parts of the apparel industry I absolutely can't stand. And so my big sticking point was I don't want to talk to customers.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:26:51]:
I know that sounds like a really crappy thing to say, but I just don't want to interface with the public because I found myself getting really frustrated when they didn't understand my jargon. And that is a me issue. I take accountability for that. But there were a lot of heated discussions that probably did not need to happen. But then you add sort of additional layers for the particular niche client because they're very driven, they're very focused. They have spent thousands of dollars on trainers and meal programs. They have virtually no carbs in their body. Nobody is patient.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:27:27]:
So there was a. There was like a big problem bubbling in my organization that I just could not solve. And so it wasn't the apparel aspect that burnt me out, it was customers. I'll give you an example. And no shade to the person that was on the other end of this, but I had purchased a brand new car. I had been driving it for a month. I had all of my packages in my car to go to the post office to deliver said packages. And I got rear ended.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:28:02]:
And that wrecked my day, obviously, and it delayed my getting to the post office, especially because the car had more damage than I initially thought. So the next day I. I redid those same packages, but I sent them overnight. The customer also essentially was going to get those packages at the same time the extra was on me. But I had a bad day. I didn't communicate that to anybody because I really didn't think it was anybody's business whether it was a car accident that disrupted my day. But I had a customer who called me a lot of colorful names saying that I was dishonest because I told her my package was on its way to her. Because I told her the package was coming to her.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:28:48]:
Because I was on my way to the post office not having any idea that my car, I mean, she came with receipts and a lot of heat. And it was sort of that incident that I felt like, I was like, first of all, I don't need to share my life with my customers and they should be able to understand that life happens. I didn't like the dynamic and I kind of, this is where I started. Like, I need a change of pace, I need a change of scenery. I need a change of life. Dear Lord, help me. And then I had the opportunity to move. It was a win win for me and my kids.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:29:21]:
We did that. And then I arrived and I was like, yeah, I don't need to do that. I don't need to interface with people who are not able to maintain their sanity for whatever reason. And if I ever find myself in that position again, then I just need to be able to hire somebody. A very high rate of pay. Who wants to do that? Because I don't. But my business grew too fast to me. I could not structure it in that way.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:29:45]:
There was no, no way to do that. So the big sticking point was just not wanting to interface with people who were not apparel in apparel industry insiders. Because I could not deal with the high level explanations or the judgment. So yeah, it's on me. It really is on me. So yeah, 0 out of 10 I do not recommend.

Heidi [00:30:06]:
Well, as someone who also had their own brand, I can fully attest to sometimes the pain of dealing with the general public in that capacity. And you know, I think you think, oh, I would outsource that. And yes, that's very possible. But you grew too fast. My business and my personal experience, I didn't have the financial resources to outsource it.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:30:30]:
Yeah.

Heidi [00:30:31]:
And it's just, it's much easier said than done. It's really, really learning experience for you.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:30:38]:
Oh yeah, it was refining. I don't regret any of it. Like, I mean my, my work graced the pages of Sports Illustrated online, which is about as like high an honor you can get in a swimwear industry. So I peaked. You know, I just would never do it again. Yeah.

Heidi [00:30:57]:
So then you went to some flavor of permanencing ish. There sounds like there's some other contract true contract opportunities in there. But you made the comment that you, you decided finally to invest in yourself and you right sided your, your trajectory. Uh, before we hit record, you made the comment that you've been on my email list for longer than you maybe haven't been on it for many years.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:31:23]:
Yeah.

Heidi [00:31:24]:
And these were your words. You converted a bit too late. So I'm curious to know like first, what was the tipping point in you, I guess not only deciding to invest in fast, but more in you deciding this is the path that I wanna take my life and really do this real freelancing business style.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:31:54]:
That's a great question. I always been really top notch at connecting in local community. So a lot of the genuine contract work, like the non permanence contract work that I would get was local. And I was always able to find a lot of independent creators who needed help. But what I hadn't been able to do was sort of reach across the digital space. And I didn't think the thing that got me was I didn't think that my technology skills were up to par. I didn't know what I didn't know. And I went to school and worked in early industry, not necessarily before CAD or Adobe or anything like that, but at the advent of using PLMs, the advent of using, you know, Adobe or, you know, Gerber, you know, I learned these things superficially, you know, when I went to school, but I didn't use them in the industry because a lot of the companies I was working for, a lot of the contracts I was working, we did everything on paper.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:33:04]:
And you would be so shocked to know how many people still work on paper even in 2025. I get clients, like potential clients all the time that are like, oh, I don't know how to match what you're doing because I would do everything on paper. The, the swimwear, the men's swimwear company, they, they do 23, 24 million dollars a year in sales. They're small company, but very stable. They've been around for 35 years. Everything's still on paper. They don't use any. So I mean, that seemed like the hurdle.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:33:36]:
And I felt like, and this is, again, this is on me, this on my mindset. I felt like I didn't, I didn't know how to do that. And I can't really pinpoint the exact moment when I converted because I know prior I was like, who's doing that? Who's doing that? I really, really think that I've been on your email list maybe since like the first six months you ever had an email list. I really think it was that long.

Heidi [00:34:03]:
Wow.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:34:06]:
And so I think there was something about maybe that round when you were launching F, you had, you were starting to do like live calls and you had added a bonus for the Adobe Illustrator class. And I was, that couple of months, I was working a lot on the sewing line because I was doing like a QC project. It took me like six months to do and I needed something to listen to. My ears, was listening to your podcast. I was, you know, and then it just. I was like, I'm gonna do this. You know, what is it gonna hurt? I call my bestie. I'm like, alice, I feel like I really need to invest in myself, but I'm really scared.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:34:47]:
She was like, well, you know, you do your best work and you're uncomfortable. Just do it. And I just did it. And I still, to this day, the full transparency. I've not worked the full list of all the courses, but just here, just in Adobe Illustrator class took me so far. It did two things for me. One, it cleaned up my own skills, but also two, it proved to me that I was not as far behind as I thought I was. And since then.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:35:11]:
Since then, I have onboarded 2D CAD, 3D CAD. Like, I'm working in all of the technology. I literally traded paper for technology. I don't ever want to see a paper pattern ever again.

Heidi [00:35:25]:
180 over here.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:35:27]:
Oh, 180, indeed. So it was a very interesting journey. And I really like every. You know, every step of the way, it was like, why did I do this sooner? What's wrong with me? Like, what. What was it? And it was just myself. It's just fear, right? It's just like, you know, the mind killer. Like, it. You know, it was too much in the driver's seat and not enough in the backseat.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:35:46]:
So. Yeah. But I guess everything also happens the way that it happens and the time that it happens. So we have to sort of, you know, parse that out too, like.

Heidi [00:35:55]:
Absolutely.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:35:56]:
Yeah. I.

Heidi [00:35:57]:
Every big leap in my life that has felt a little bit scary, whether that's a big decision, whether there's a big financial component attached to it or not, like those big, scary decisions, taking a risk on yourself, making a big move in any capacity. For me, I've looked back on, I would say, 99% of those and thought, gosh, I wish I actually did do that sooner. And it's a lesson I keep learning, and I slowly am learning more and more, and I. I feel like I'm slowly acting sooner than I did when I was younger. But it's a lesson that I think we all continue to learn. And I hear that from many people who join fast, from a lot of people. I really wish I did this sooner.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:36:42]:
I think I learned to ask myself. And I'm also neurodivergent. I've got another layer. I have a sensory processing disorder, and I have very high pattern recognition, but I have no attention span for the life of me. So I have to find unique ways to get Things done in my house and for my kids, in my job, like, it is, like, literally a process. So I learned to ask myself when I, you know, there's that feeling. I think we all get inside of ourselves when we're not. We don't think we're where we're supposed to be.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:37:13]:
It can feel like panic. It can feel like fear. It can feel like a lot of different emotions. But for me, when I identify anything that's other than calm, I just ask myself, what would it take me? What kind of conditions would I have to create in order to get X, Y and Z done? And for me, I get a lot of clarity asking myself that, because then I'm able to make a list of crap I am not doing and be like, can I do this right now? And if the answer is yes, that's great. I mean, I'm not over here berating myself, because sometimes we do need a little grace, and there is. There are budgets and, you know, there's a lot of things to, you know, to think about. But I find that very clarifying. Maybe somebody else would find that clarifying as well.

Heidi [00:37:53]:
Absolutely. I think so. Thank you for sharing that. So what is. It's December of 2025. What are you thinking about for 2026 with your freelance business?

JoAnne Hopkins [00:38:05]:
Oh, my gosh. I have the coolest opportunity. It's gonna look like a wild ride. Because I do plan to continue to niche down into men's swim and tv. Yes, I do intend to continue to do that. I sort of done some of the pre work and the number of brands. There's a lot of brands, a lot more brands than you think out there, but they. A lot of them just fall under surf rather than marketing themselves as, like a men's swim company.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:38:32]:
But very, very cool. There's a lot of them. There's a lot of, I think, work to be had. But in October, the universe delivered me a really, really interesting nugget. I've always wanted to work in a particular category that I had no. No experience in outside of understanding the mechanics of us stretch fabrics. And so I just accepted a contract. It's not her reliance.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:39:00]:
It. It's really hard to explain. And I did send an NDA, so I can only say so much. But basically, I signed a contract with a global seamless intimates company for technical design that pays all my bills. Wow. And it is a renewing, an ongoing renewing contract. It is what I think is pretty good pay, which will create enough space for me to focus on such a niche. It's going to take a minute to get Menswim to buy into me.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:39:35]:
And I've always wanted to learn seamless and this very small team of global go getters for. Yeah, we like you. And I was like, I like you too. And so now I'm on this journey that I get to do, you know, learn something new, which is really amazing. And then also just sort of take my time to decide what I want to do with menswear. I think there's a. It's a category that needs a huge overhaul in general, and I think that could affect some change. Call it crazy.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:40:04]:
So 2026 will be continuing to learn in this, like, new. This new category, but also sort of continue to refine. And with this contract, it is fully remote. So, like, I mean, I don't have to go anywhere, do anything. So it's not really permanent. Like we are considered remote contributors.

Heidi [00:40:22]:
Is it full time, like 40 hours a week?

JoAnne Hopkins [00:40:25]:
Yeah, it is. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's also flexible. You know, I have, I felt like since I started this, I've had plenty of space to like, take care of my other clients. It's been a non issue, but I think it's a really wonderful gift. I realize how unusual it is, but I think it's something we would all want, right? We want a big, stable, solid contract so that we can then take the time with these little baby projects that like, really mean something to us. So I think 2026 is going to be pretty fantastic.

Heidi [00:40:55]:
That's amazing. Good for you. Joanne. I'm so excited for you and to hear where you are over the coming years. You made a comment that men swim is going to take a minute to, I think, accept you. And I was like, I think you're.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:41:14]:
A little bit wrong. Well, okay, so like I said, it's. Well, it's a culture thing, right? So men's swim, there are some, like, you know, for instance, Chevy's. This is a really cool brand out of Austin. That day I almost took a strap with them and moved to Austin because I love them so much. They're just really wonderful people. But there are not a lot of companies like that. Most men's swim come alongside a bigger surf category.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:41:46]:
And the decision makers in these surf companies are very different kind of people. And that's okay. I just going to take a minute. I think they're used to doing things the way they do things, and it's just going to take a minute for my pitch to settle in and for them to understand that I might be able to show them the way that one can help produce a superior product, maybe save them some money in the long run. And I think anytime change. But there are some niche industries, like bridal is one of them, that's really hard because it's very regimented. But also surf is another one. It's very cool.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:42:24]:
But the mentality is very specific. The way they do things is very specific. And so that's just for me. I'm confident in my skills. Like, I can break through for sure.

Heidi [00:42:35]:
Well, I hope you prove yourself wrong, that it doesn't take a hot minute. Although I know you have this other great project lined up, which sounds like it's a really phenomenal setup and foundation for you to build your freelance business alongside.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:42:49]:
Yeah, I'm super excited.

Heidi [00:42:51]:
Yeah. Now I'd love to ask you, it's not all rainbows and roses and amazing. What do you feel like Some of the big challenges along the way have been.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:43:03]:
My biggest challenge, to be completely honest, has been communication. I'm a very direct, blunt, straightforward kind of lady, and I prefer it that way. And I do not like to speak passively, and that is not always received well. So learning, you know, teaching myself to be more flexible in my communication style and then also finding ways to be receptive has been a really big challenge. And then also, you know, I think the one that gets us all is time management and then boundary setting. Right. I think that. I think anytime, you know, especially as women, as we become moms and then we age and then our kids grow up.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:43:56]:
And my youngest has just matriculated to the University of South Florida. So he is now a newly minted adult and a newly minted college kid. And I am a. I am free of. For the first time in 30 years, I'm free of raising, being responsible for minor children. I think the thing that comes to my mind a lot is about boundary setting and what that means and knowing that, like, boundaries really are designed to keep you in and keep you safe, not others out. And then how we communicate with others is intermingled with those boundaries. And conflict resolution is really, really important in this industry because, like, there's no such thing as perfect.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:44:42]:
Like, there are more mistakes and more errors and more fires than there are pure winds. And sort of living in the nest of that messiness and being okay, like self okay, business okay, life okay. There's a lot of layers and boundaries are really important. I think that's. Some people are really good at it, but most people aren't. So I think These are just the things that they take, the time that they take to develop. And I think that's why the mindset piece is. And the personal growth piece is almost more important than the hard skillset across the board.

Heidi [00:45:18]:
Absolutely.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:45:19]:
Yeah.

Heidi [00:45:19]:
I mean, I'll just say, for me personally, I think that communication and boundaries are lifelong skills that you're continually learning.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:45:30]:
Yeah.

Heidi [00:45:30]:
So I was definitely on the.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:45:33]:
I took me a long time to get on that party pony. I'm not gonna lie, because like I said, I am blunt and I'm direct, and I've always believed that that is the best way forward. Like, you can't solve a problem you can't identify. If I tell you exactly where you stand, then everybody's good. What's the problem? Not. It's not always the way you and.

Heidi [00:45:56]:
I get along real well because I operate the same. And I'm partially like, if that doesn't work for you, then I'm probably just not your person.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:46:04]:
Well, and that's that last p. Being okay with you. I'm probably not your person. And that could be really hard, I think, because we. We tie. We have to tie that to sort of, you know, the actual end piece, which is money. Right. And so our brain tells us, well, I have to be for everybody.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:46:22]:
If I'm not for everybody, I'm going to limit my money options. If I limit my money options, what? And then you start getting scrambled. You can dig yourself off. I've dug myself so many holes, gals. So many holes.

Heidi [00:46:33]:
Right. Back to the mindset thing.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:46:35]:
That's right.

Heidi [00:46:35]:
That is the foundation of all of it, truthfully.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:46:38]:
Yep. Yeah, I agree.

Heidi [00:46:40]:
Well, Joanne, this has been a lovely conversation. I'd love to end with the question I ask everybody at the end, which is, what is one? People never ask you about being a fashion freelancer that you wish they would.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:46:51]:
Not just a freelancer, but an apparel professional in general. I wish people would ask the question, what does it take to bring a product to market? Or some variation of that. There's just lots of fans in the air. Oh, you must look at fabric swatches all day. I do math all day. Yeah, ma'. Am. Thank you.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:47:11]:
But I wish people understood what it took to bring a product to market and just how many personalities there are along the way and how hard it can be to battle through, you know, the factory issues and the fit issues. And I feel like if more people knew that, maybe they understand why they're always complaining about fit, because I think that's the, like, a foundational issue. Everybody's like, nothing ever fits well, I mean, you really can only fit one body and one style at one time. Yeah.

Heidi [00:47:48]:
So good. I love it. And where can everybody connect with you and find you?

JoAnne Hopkins [00:47:51]:
Online on LinkedIn.

Heidi [00:47:53]:
Awesome. All right, we'll link that up in the show notes. Thank you so much, Joanne. It was lovely to hear about everything you're working on in your story.

JoAnne Hopkins [00:47:59]:
Thank you so much. I appreciate you.