Not About Autism: A Refrigerator Moms Side Chat

Kelley Jensen and Julianna Scott launch a new segment called Not About Autism, built on a simple idea: parents managing complex mental health challenges need real breaks, not more algorithm-fed autism content. To kick it off, they dig into a 2006 email thread from back when they first became friends, revisiting early medication decisions, a beloved longtime psychiatrist, and a very of-its-era debate over The Devil Wears Prada. Along the way they talk reality TV, online shopping in its infancy, the Anne Hathaway-led Yesteryear adaptation, and Emily Wilson's Odyssey translation. 

Key Takeaways:

• A new recurring segment, Not About Autism, is designed as an intentional break from autism-focused content
• Kelley and Julianna read from an actual 2006 email exchange between them
• The email covers an early medication decision, including a diagnosis and a first anti-anxiety prescription
• They both still recommend the same psychiatrist referenced in that 2006 email
• Their paper "A Tough Pill to Swallow" covers how they evaluate whether a medication is working
• The conversation drifts into The Devil Wears Prada, both book and movie, and its sequel
• They recommend the documentary The September Issue as a companion watch
• Book chat touches on Yesteryear, the trad-wife novel Anne Hathaway is adapting
• They also discuss Emily Wilson's translation of The Odyssey
• A future Not About Autism episode will cover the Jane Austen Society

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

A Tough Pill to Swallow — a Refrigerator Moms paper on medicating autism and how to evaluate whether a medication is working. (https://refrigeratormoms.com/a-tough-pill-to-swallow-medicating-autism/)

The Devil Wears Prada — the novel and film referenced throughout the conversation, along with its upcoming sequel.(https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0458352/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_3_tt_7_nm_1_in_0_q_the%20devil%20wears)

The September Issue — a documentary about Anna Wintour and Vogue, recommended as a companion watch to The Devil Wears Prada. (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1331025/)

The Run-Through with Vogue — hosted by Chloe Malle, mentioned in connection with behind-the-scenes stories about Anna Wintour and Vogue. (https://open.spotify.com/episode/5h0FDZsFjP3DOuvia003mB)

Yesteryear — a novel about a trad-wife influencer, being adapted into a film starring Anne Hathaway. (https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/780686/yesteryear-a-gma-book-club-pick-by-caro-claire-burke/)

The Odyssey (Emily Wilson translation) — referenced in discussing Anne Hathaway's performance in a related adaptation. (https://wwnorton.com/books/9780393356250)

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00:00 Introducing Not About Autism
00:24 Why parents need a break from autism talk
01:10 Life before phones, email, and social media
01:44 Pulling up a 2006 email thread
02:31 The email topic: medication
02:54 A first psychiatrist visit and diagnosis
03:10 Starting buspar, an anti-anxiety medication
04:00 Emoji habits then versus now
04:45 Brain Performance Technologies sponsor message
05:06 Managing medication with Jamba Juice and yogurt
05:44 Devil Wears Prada plans, twenty years ago
06:13 Tough Pill to Swallow, their medication paper
06:39 Back to Devil Wears Prada talk
07:07 Confessing a reality TV addiction
07:20 Real World before Real Housewives
07:31 The book's first hundred pages verdict
08:06 Coordinating babysitting and free weekends
08:25 Early days of online shopping
08:57 Whether they ever saw Prada 2
09:25 Comparing the movie to the book
10:08 Frustration with endless remakes and sequels
10:34 The Vogue Runway podcast comes up
11:24 Brain Performance Technologies sponsor message
11:45 The September Issue documentary recommendation
12:23 Asking for a new book recommendation
12:30 Introducing the novel Yesteryear
13:19 Anne Hathaway's Odyssey performance
14:00 Emily Wilson's Odyssey translation
14:13 Teasing the Jane Austen Society

Creators and Guests

Guest

Julianna Scott

Guest

Kelley Jensen

What is Refrigerator Moms?

Born from 20 years of friendship, during which they navigated the trenches of autism parenting and advocacy, the Refrigerator Moms is Kelley Jensen and Julianna Scott’s way of reaching out to parents waging the same battles they were.  Their purpose with this podcast is to clear the fog, silence the noise, and find a path through neurodivergence for parents that are stuck between bad choices. They tackle parenting topics such as mom guilt, tantrums, pathological demand avoidance, siblings, medication, comorbidities, social media, and much more. 

Kelley Jensen 00:00
This is the Refrigerator Moms. And today's episode is not about autism.
Kelley Jensen 00:09
Welcome to the Refrigerator Moms. I'm Kelley Jensen. I'm here with my friend Julianna Scott. And today we are starting a new segment. We're calling it Not About Autism, because one of the things we really believe is: to go the distance in autism parenting,
Julianna Scott 00:24
you need a break. You need a silly factor. People who deal with very complicated, hard mental health challenges know how to get silly, know how to have engaging conversations, know how to take a step away from that with which they ail. And one of the problems that we have with social media groups and social media silos, as we call them, is that the more groups you turn to for support, for ideas on how to parent your autistic child, the more the algorithm sends you autism, when what you really need is an algorithm that takes you away from autism. And that is us.
Kelley Jensen 00:59
And we have been parenting for a long time.
Julianna Scott 01:00
We have.
Kelley Jensen 01:00
And way back in the day when we met, we did not have our phones in our hands. We did not have access to email. We didn't have social media.
Julianna Scott 01:11
So we had email. We did have email, but we didn't have it on our phones.
Kelley Jensen 01:19
Oh, that's true. So I'd wait till the end of the day and check in with you. And some of those conversations are laughable because they were so engaging, and they would often veer off of the hard topic of parenting autism.
Julianna Scott 01:29
So we want to bring that to the table. We want to encourage people to join the conversation. Not About Autism.
Kelley Jensen 01:36
That's right. So I went to the archives, and this goes back to June of 2006.
Julianna Scott 01:44
Wow, 2006. Which is when we kind of started to become friends. I think we were friends a little bit before this.
Kelley Jensen 01:52
We were, but maybe we didn't even have email when we first met at the My Gym. I don't know.
Julianna Scott 01:58
This is my Pac Bell account. It's not my Hotmail. I had a Hotmail one before this, but I had to change my Pac Bell one, because, you know, kids now don't even know what Pac Bell is, or Hotmail.
Kelley Jensen 02:13
Or Hotmail. I do see a Hotmail account, I'm like, I know how old this person is.
Julianna Scott 02:20
And that could have been me. So I pulled one that kind of has a little bit of everything in it. So usually our emails would start with something autism. Okay, so what is this one?
Kelley Jensen 02:31
This one is: light topic, medication. So I apparently had asked you for a recommendation for a psychiatrist, and our long-used psychiatrist, that we still collaborate with to this day, we both agree that she is the greatest of them all.
Julianna Scott 02:47
Yeah. So I started this one with "would call," but boys were around, because we still called back in the day.
Kelley Jensen 02:54
Back in the day. Yeah, exactly. Oh, my God. Who makes phone calls now?
Julianna Scott 02:58
No, I know. And I remember it's like, ugh, there's no way you could have a phone conversation. Never. So I had gone to the doctor that morning, and then she had diagnosed him with anxiety disorder. She called it OCD.
Kelley Jensen 03:10
There's all this stuff. She's giving him Buspar, an anti-anxiety med, and I'm like, oh, baby's first medication.
Julianna Scott 03:19
So it was pretty mild. So I was kind of going through, like, well, I thought we'd move past this.
Kelley Jensen 03:24
And I was kind of interested. I'm like, move past what?
Julianna Scott 03:27
I mean, right, honey, you're just getting started.
Kelley Jensen 03:30
I know you are. Literally, like, your first medication. I shouldn't be surprised. So a fresh look is always good. Think about still.
Julianna Scott 03:37
How much is still to be done? Argh. Argh. Argh.
Kelley Jensen 03:43
This is before emojis.
Julianna Scott 03:45
I had to write, I had to write A-R-G-H. Argh.
Kelley Jensen 03:53
What is the argument? I don't know, he's there.
Julianna Scott 03:56
I mean, I know he's there. So, God, how emojis have made our life easier.
Kelley Jensen 04:00
I know. I wonder what my go-to emoji would be. It would not be a heart.
Julianna Scott 04:07
My go-to is thumbs up and heart. What's yours?
Kelley Jensen 04:11
I like the heart exclamation point, when you let me use it, because you really limit my ability to use exclamation points. You hate them.
Julianna Scott 04:14
I do. But I've learned, I've tried.
Kelley Jensen 04:17
You can emoji it, that's okay.
Julianna Scott 04:19
It's a heart emoji, a heart with a little, like, it's a heart exclamation. I like that one. I think it's, use that.
Kelley Jensen 04:24
But I don't have a lot of use for that one.
Julianna Scott 04:27
Well, that's because you have the weird Android. You never know what emojis show up.
Kelley Jensen 04:32
Yes. This episode of the Refrigerator Moms is brought to you by Brain Performance Technologies. Brain Performance Technologies is a specialty mental health clinic that offers magnetic e-resonance therapy, or MeRT, for autistic people aged three or older. MeRT is a transcranial magnetic stimulation protocol that utilizes an EEG diagnostic to deliver personalized magnetic pulses to stimulate the brain and build neural pathways, effective in managing autistic symptoms.
Kelley Jensen 05:06
How did I respond to yours? I told, said, told him that he had to take a vitamin to help him worry less.
Julianna Scott 05:12
And he said he'd like the vitamin, but he's still gonna worry. And so I said, how was the weekend? So then your response was, you had a paragraph of what you were doing to medicate Beau, and there was Jamba Juice involved, and opening up a capsule and putting it in yogurt, and there was a lot of stuff, and you were worried that you were gonna be on camera recording you doing these things.
Kelley Jensen 05:27
Opening a capsule and putting it in a Jamba Juice, things we did. But you say, "anyway, have a great week, let's get the kids together soon. It's relaxing to know that fits don't matter when we're together."
Julianna Scott 05:38
Maybe it is relaxing for them, too.
Kelley Jensen 05:40
So maybe next week let's do something without them. I want to see The Devil Wears Prada, are you in?
Julianna Scott 05:44
Did you read the book, The Devil Wears Prada?
Kelley Jensen 05:48
Okay, so, and this again, people, this is 20 years ago.
Julianna Scott 05:51
20 years ago. This is Devil Wears Prada Two.
Kelley Jensen 05:56
This is, did you read the book? Because, you know, we still read books.
Julianna Scott 06:01
Well, you still read books, but you were, like, such a snob about book reading. It had to be a great book.
Kelley Jensen 06:07
I'm still a snob. So I want to say, if you have questions about medicating your child, this is proof, we've been there, done that.
Julianna Scott 06:13
We started this in 2006.
Kelley Jensen 06:15
Check out our paper, Tough Pill to Swallow.
Julianna Scott 06:19
Yep, all about medicating autism, and find out how we got through it and what we recommend in that paper. And the trusted doctor that is the basis of a lot of our opinion, that paper taught us about ways to evaluate whether medication is working and whether it's worth it or not.
Kelley Jensen 06:39
And back to The Devil Wears Prada.
Julianna Scott 06:40
Yeah, because the theme of this is Not About Autism.
Kelley Jensen 06:44
So back to the Devil Wears Prada. So, yes, my response was very validating about your stuff.
Julianna Scott 06:46
Yes, again. And then I said, I definitely want to see the Devil, publishing and Vogue.
Kelley Jensen 06:50
I'm in. I haven't read it, should I?
Julianna Scott 06:52
You hadn't read it. And what did I say?
Kelley Jensen 06:55
You know why I wasn't going to read, you weren't going to read The Devil Wears Prada, because it was not sophisticated enough. But I want to interject before people hate on my snobbery, that I watch reality TV, and I'm addicted to reality TV. So this was pre reality TV.
Julianna Scott 07:07
Well, Real World.
Kelley Jensen 07:08
Okay, so we had Real World.
Julianna Scott 07:10
And then after the Real World, I wasn't, Real Housewives yet, was it?
Kelley Jensen 07:14
No, no, Real World was, that was during the glut of, I was all in on Real World.
Julianna Scott 07:20
Oh, oh, I know. So I believe I said that The Devil Wears Prada, that the book was only good for the first hundred pages.
Kelley Jensen 07:29
The book was not nearly as good as the title.
Julianna Scott 07:32
Right, the title is the whole thing. Right, so, I mean, it's great for about the first hundred pages, because she's this girl just like us.
Kelley Jensen 07:39
I don't know, is she a girl just like us? Not really, we were older than that.
Julianna Scott 07:44
But I was being generous, maybe just like we were, maybe our first job, you know?
Kelley Jensen 07:47
Your first job. Yeah, that's true. We did have lives before this.
Julianna Scott 07:52
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Girls Just Like We Were would have been more accurate.
Kelley Jensen 07:54
She works for an absolute maniac, the stories are classic, and you just know that they're all true. Plus, it's great to hear about the clothes, but then it loses luster fast.
Julianna Scott 08:06
So then we try to coordinate, there's a lot of babysitting. Eric is going to go out of town, so you have some leverage to get some babysitting.
Kelley Jensen 08:13
So, yes, we were planning it, and I had nothing planned for the long weekend. Let me know. And then we start talking about the Neiman Marcus site, about discount clothes, because that was the first time I had online shopped.
Julianna Scott 08:26
I mean, this is it, this is the OG story of Kelley's online shopping. And it was back when Neiman Marcus was just starting to tiptoe into online stores, and so that you could get really good deals. They were just trying to see what they could, you know, trying to get a following.
Kelley Jensen 08:48
The good old days.
Julianna Scott 08:49
I know, I know. So did you see The Devil Wears Prada Two?
Kelley Jensen 08:57
I did not. And why is that?
Julianna Scott 09:00
Yeah, I just haven't gotten to it, to be honest. I will.
Kelley Jensen 09:03
Do you want to see it? I feel like I'm a little bit of a completist, so I think I need to see it.
Julianna Scott 09:06
And I did enjoy The Devil Wears Prada.
Kelley Jensen 09:11
You know, honestly, I don't know, I mean, in all these emails we don't talk about actually going.
Julianna Scott 09:15
I think we actually did.
Kelley Jensen 09:16
I know I saw it. I think we saw it together, didn't we?
Julianna Scott 09:20
We must have. But I liked it.
Kelley Jensen 09:22
Oh, I thought the movie was, did you ever end up reading the book?
Julianna Scott 09:25
No, you told me it wasn't that great, that's why I didn't read it.
Kelley Jensen 09:28
I think it was one of those rare incidences where the movie was better than the book.
Julianna Scott 09:33
Okay, because the book was all about the title, and, you know, the title was great, and in a movie, it was great, all those great actors and actresses that brought it to life, they did a better job.
Kelley Jensen 09:45
But that's one of the reasons why I didn't want to see Two. Because, first of all, I'm kind of done with, I feel so sad that everything is a remake or a lame sequel. Where's the, you would think in the age of AI we could have some true creativity, but all we really have is a sequel, a remake.
Julianna Scott 10:08
I'm bored of that.
Kelley Jensen 10:09
I'm going to watch it, it's on my to-do list.
Julianna Scott 10:11
Because you're less of a rebel than me. No, I will not watch it.
Kelley Jensen 10:15
No, I want to watch it. I want to see the clothes, I know, I'm an old publishing professional, so I know there's some publishing stuff in there, and I'm curious. And there's a podcast, the Vogue Runway, do you listen?
Julianna Scott 10:34
No.
Kelley Jensen 10:35
Oh, so Chloe Malle, who's now, well, she's not Anna Wintour, she's still there, but she's kind of slotted into that spot. So Chloe Malle, she was talking to some of the interns, and asking, you know, what was true, what was false.
Julianna Scott 10:52
And quite a bit of it is true, of course.
Kelley Jensen 10:56
No, it's true. Back in the day, when you could be an Anna Wintour, you could be ruthless.
Julianna Scott 11:05
Even now, though, like, people now, it's just updated, like, they do text, like, oh, she's in the building, and they all scurry around and they do all those things, but it's the same gag.
Kelley Jensen 11:12
Isn't that the same gag?
Julianna Scott 11:14
Yes, yes.
Kelley Jensen 11:16
So, but if you are curious, it was a good episode of the Vogue Runway podcast.
Julianna Scott 11:20
All right, I will check it out.
Kelley Jensen 11:24
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Julianna Scott 11:45
One of my favorite things to come out, and I know we saw this together, this not on the email thread, but after we saw The Devil Wears Prada, you know, there was this whole rehabilitation tour that they did for Anna Wintour, because, you know, she was, and the September Issue, do you remember that movie, the September Issue, we watched?
Kelley Jensen 12:06
I watched that.
Julianna Scott 12:07
Remember that movie? We loved that movie.
Kelley Jensen 12:09
So good, it was so good. So that's one we recommend if you're going back into the archives, and if you were a person that loved The Devil Wears Prada One and Two, and you never saw the September Issue, it's so good.
Julianna Scott 12:19
Well, back to the books. Are you reading a book that you recommend that I read now?
Kelley Jensen 12:24
I can't think of anything I would recommend.
Julianna Scott 12:26
Did you read Yesteryear?
Kelley Jensen 12:28
No. Although today I was, I do have some book recommendations for you, but I don't have my phone with me, so I cannot, I took pictures of a bunch of stuff too.
Julianna Scott 12:34
You should read Yesteryear.
Kelley Jensen 12:36
What's it about?
Julianna Scott 12:37
It's about the trad wife, actually, speaking of Anne Hathaway, she bought the rights to the book, and she's gonna star in it. Yesteryear.
Kelley Jensen 12:45
Yesteryear.
Julianna Scott 12:46
So she's a trad-wife influencer, the whole thing, and she, this doesn't spoil anything, Yesteryear Ranch, and she is back in, like, 1883, on the farm, doing the things in real life. And so it's kind of like a little bit of a mystery, like, what happened, how is she, okay.
Kelley Jensen 13:05
Oh, I'll have to watch that.
Julianna Scott 13:07
But it's, I mean, she's a very unlikable protagonist. So, you know, you can dislike her all you want, but it's kind of an interesting social satire.
Kelley Jensen 13:19
All right, I'll check it out. And maybe it'll be a topic on our Not About Autism episode.
Julianna Scott 13:24
We'll have our first book club, our Yesteryear book club.
Kelley Jensen 13:28
I will say this in closing. When we talked about this a little earlier, Anne Hathaway just absolutely slayed the Odyssey. She was amazing.
Julianna Scott 13:36
Incredible. And one of the reasons why I don't wanna watch The Devil Wears Prada Two, is that woman is going forward, she's not going backwards. She is so grown so much as an actress.
Kelley Jensen 13:47
I know, but she really enjoyed being in The Devil Wears Prada Two.
Julianna Scott 13:49
She probably got some good clothes out of it too, I'll bet.
Kelley Jensen 13:54
Oh, my God. No, I, I know. No, Odyssey was amazing.
Julianna Scott 13:58
Incredible.
Kelley Jensen 13:59
Don't hesitate. Are you gonna read the Odyssey?
Julianna Scott 14:01
No, I don't think I'm gonna. I read an Emily Wilson translation that everyone's talking about.
Kelley Jensen 14:07
You see how she is, I'm gonna get off.
Julianna Scott 14:09
You're just gonna see the movie.
Kelley Jensen 14:11
If I kept my Cliff Notes, I might have read.
Julianna Scott 14:18
I had plenty of Cliff Notes, too.
Kelley Jensen 14:20
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I loved literature and stuff when I was in school. I did enjoy it, not as much as you, but.
Julianna Scott 14:25
And in one of our next Not About Autism episodes, I'm gonna let you talk about the Jane Austen Society.
Kelley Jensen 14:33
I'd be happy to.
Julianna Scott 14:34
Thanks for listening. Tell us what you talk about when you're not talking about autism. And if you liked what you heard here, again, go back to refrigeratormoms.com, where we are talking about autism, and like, subscribe and follow, and do all the things.
Kelley Jensen 14:50
And don't forget to take a break from autism every once in a while.
Julianna Scott 14:56
Absolutely. Bye.
Julianna Scott 14:57
Thank you for listening to this episode of Refrigerator Moms. Don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. You can also find episode notes, resources, and any refrigerator paper connected to today's discussion on our website at refrigeratormoms.com, where you can sign up for our newsletter. We'd love to hear your questions and future episode ideas. Reach out to us on social media or through our website. The information shared in this podcast is meant for informational and educational purposes only. It shouldn't be taken as medical, psychological, therapeutic, legal, or professional advice. If you have questions about a diagnosis, treatment, intervention, or any medical or developmental concerns, please consult a qualified healthcare or service provider. Don't rely on this podcast in place of professional guidance, and don't delay getting help because of something you heard here. The views and experiences we talk about are our own, and those of our guests. They're not meant to serve as personal recommendations for any individual or family. Listening to this podcast does not create any kind of professional relationship between you and the hosts or guests. Any choices you make based on the information here are completely your own, and we are not responsible for any outcomes that result from them. If this episode includes a refrigerator paper, you can find all sources and citations, along with additional notes, on our website at refrigeratormoms.com.