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Social Justice - A Conversation
Unknown Speaker 0:00
Hi, I'm Charles Stanton. I'm on the faculty of the Honors College of UNLV. And the Boyd School of Law.
Unknown Speaker 0:07
Hi, I'm Lana weatherald. I'm
Unknown Speaker 0:08
a third year law student and welcome to social justice, social justice to conversation conversation.
Unknown Speaker 0:13
Hello, everybody. And thank you again for joining us this Thursday night on social justice a conversation again, I'm Lana Weatherall joined by Charles Stanton. Tonight, we want to talk a little bit, of course, about elections. And we don't at risk of being one of those annoying, horrible political ads, you've been hearing ad nauseam. We want to talk a little bit more nuanced, and about some of the things we're seeing happening on the ground, especially where voting rights and issues concerning voting and accessibility to voting are concerned. So we're gonna have Professor Stanton open up with some issues going on in Tampa. And so in some voting issues there. Yeah. So
Unknown Speaker 0:53
there have been a number of things happening across the country. But we can start in Tampa, where a number of people had served their sentences in Florida prisons, they got out of the prisons, and they believed that they had registered to vote. They had voter ID cards. And lo and behold, last week and the week before that, the police show up at their homes, and they arrest them. And what was so what was, of course, it was mortifying to the people who are arrested, who, who believed and were told that they could legitimately vote was the fact that the police in a number of cases, didn't even know what the warrants were for. So apparently, in a number of those cases, once a court and the the arrests were thrown out, but I think this is just one part of a
Unknown Speaker 1:55
fear tactic. You know what I mean? This is a way that potentially not only are you scaring people into well, you register to vote, this could be you, right, they could show up at your door knocking asking about warrants, but then it shows that the fight is not necessary. I can't tell you on the ground, how many people I went to college, maybe about an hour outside of Tampa, and the fight to get that on the ballot, even the opportunity for, you know, low grade felons to then have the opportunity to vote once they finish their sentences. That was something that was fought for him tooth and nail in Florida, right? And they finally get this right. It's finally something they can do. They're excited to go to the ballots. These are people that did register to vote obviously, very quickly. And this is what they're faced with. I mean, come on, and then how does it look hopeful for other states that are you putting referendums on the ballot to potentially allow people like this to vote? Scary?
Unknown Speaker 2:46
Yeah. Well, you know what it is? It's, I call it the mythology. There's a mythology in our country, that we want to reintegrate people into society after they served their sentence in prison, but we really don't We don't know. We don't want to reintegrate them. And of course, of course, it's almost always disproportionately people of color,
Unknown Speaker 3:10
absolutely. And beyond reintegrating, then we don't want them to have a voice. God forbid you get reintegrated. We don't want to hear from you once you do. Just sad. And once like you say, it's not just Tampa. This is not something that's limited to Tampa. No,
Unknown Speaker 3:22
it's really what is happening in our country is going on all across the country. For example, in Harris County, Texas, there has been an appeal for federal election monitors. Because of all the funky things that usually go go on in Texas when people try to vote. Harris County, of course, is a predominantly black and black County, a large percentage of the voters are black. And this stuff seems to happen every election cycle. And the other thing that's really is kind of pathetic, too is Beto O'Rourke is running for governor. And he's really he's probably pretty much visited every county in the state, some more than once. He's running all over the state. You know, he was very much involved in the Uvalde. situation,
Unknown Speaker 4:15
right. I mean, swearing, I mean, getting up there and using diction you would never hear out of a politician to express his anger. He was I mean, he's outspoken.
Unknown Speaker 4:23
Right. And the crazy thing is that the governor isn't even campaigning. He's not even campaign does he have to, because he's got all this money behind him. Right. And he's got a coterie of voters who will vote for any Republican
Unknown Speaker 4:38
as long as they it's an R next to the name right,
Unknown Speaker 4:41
if there's an R next to the name, and of course, the racial component is there as well. The racial component is there as well. You bounce you bounce over from from that to basically a lot of the ads that are that are running in various states. Oh, whichever racial element Mandela Barnes is running in Wisconsin against Ron Johnson, and they actually have ads, where they make Mandela Barnes look blacker than he actually is, oh, my God. Yeah, this is what's this is what's going on because they the republican party knows, going back to Willie Horton that that when everything else has failed, we're gonna drop the racial politics work, right, we're gonna drop the race card into the deck, you know, and at the same time with all those things are going on. And of course, you know, Joe Biden being the Messiah of evil of the country basically, is like rudderless. Yeah, I, in my, in my experience, I've never seen so many people who believe in conspiracy theories. Joe Scarborough had a focus group last week. And he was like, astounded as to what the people were saying about the insurrection on January. So
Unknown Speaker 5:59
absolutely. I think MSNBC did one similar where they had a group of people from Pennsylvania talking about their experiences on January 6, than what they thought and just what these people believe, without unsubstantiated proof and what they're willing to then get on national television and say they believe without unsubstantiated proof, and then feel it you know what killed me and watching this video. And if you haven't had time, I would just, you know, throw on Google MSNBC focus group, January 6, Pennsylvania, this is something you really should watch, the body language professor was just so closed off. I mean, the idea that these people would be open to any sort of suggestion that this was verging on treasonous behavior, going into the Capitol throwing fecal matter at the walls, I mean, come on. And these people just they refuse to believe some of the things they are told they believe it's a constitutional right to take up arms at the Capitol truly, in these they're espousing these views. And then with the body language of you can't tell me I'm wrong about these things. I mean, just arms crossed, angry faces, you know, why am I even being brought here by MSNBC to talk about something that's so black and white, just, I would encourage you, if you haven't seen something like that, look at what your fellow Americans truly believe.
Unknown Speaker 7:02
When you say black and white, that's it, right? That's what it is. You know, it's we've discussed this in the past. It's a demographic thing. It's a demographic thing. And of course, what's adding validity to it is all the different people who are running for Congress, it reminds me of the movie on the waterfront, with a priest is down in the halls of the ship. And he says, you know, when you see a justice, if you don't speak out, you're just as guilty as the people who perpetrated and we see all the different Republican leaders, Kevin McCarthy, Mitch McConnell, the whole the whole crew. And if you've probably got them in private, and you ask them, What do you really think of 100%
Unknown Speaker 7:49
I mean, these people are legal scholars, at the end of the day, you don't want to pretend to they didn't receive the education they receive, or that they didn't serve the time they served. And because they did, and it's just that they're acquiescing to the powers that be in the party that believes such or are willing to allow people to believe they believe such heinous things. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 8:07
And of course, I think I think that, you know, they limit themselves to one form of media, yes, either one station or one website or one chat room, what have you, right? It's just like, it's just like with Fox News. Now, what's interesting about Fox News, of course, is that, okay, they have a conservative ideology. I'm cool with that. I have a liberal ideology, but we I respect people who want to, you know, believe what they want to believe. But it's interesting, they don't cover they didn't cover the hearings. Okay. They didn't cover the areas, right, they didn't cover a lot of the time. Most of the time, when Joe Biden comes in during the day and speaks, they don't cover that either.
Unknown Speaker 8:52
Right. And they will cover you know, never when the speeches are particularly articulate are never when they're talking about his successes, or any of you know, the clips that they're showing, right. And it just it doesn't, the fact that people cannot rationalize, why am I only being shown this on X day? Why am I only being shown this when it is of a certain nature? I gotta believe that people are better than understanding they're not being force fed misinformation, but it doesn't seem like they are, or that it's just identity politics, you identify so strongly with something that you're unwilling to believe that there is another side at this point. So you know, it has to be garbage on CNN, it has to be garbage at MSNBC, why would I bother to even look at it? Because it has to be that way. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 9:35
Well, it's interesting, you know, that they had a big article about this as to how Fox covers the dues. Right. And the the answer that they came up with, according to the people that run foxes, that we know, we know that it's news, I mean, in other words, if you have a hearing in the Congress, and you have a hearing having to do with an attempt to overthrow the government Arachnoiditis news. But they don't they they don't want to disturb their audience. Yes. And it's what's very interesting about this whole thing, in a sense, in a sense, like, you know, Fox News knows their audience. They know what the audience wants. But they also know they also know that as devoted as their audience seems to be to Fox, if they try to moderate, they'll find another hour, they'll
Unknown Speaker 10:28
go on and on. And yeah, I believe that exactly.
Unknown Speaker 10:31
And they'll go to another network. So in the sense that they're prisoners to 100% because they can't, they can't really tell the truth of what's going on, because they know the flock will desert them.
Unknown Speaker 10:42
And it is sad because I do think Fox News has lost some some talented journalists over the course of the past 510 years, it's been sort of overwhelming the level of talent they're willing to part with because they are not willing to go the impartial route. But this is not just Fox News. CNN has lost talent in missive. I mean, this is across the board. But it's just interesting, where I mean, where we've allowed journalism to corrode to entertainment now it's no longer journalism, it's no longer news based journalism. It's entertainment. Well, they
Unknown Speaker 11:11
that that that network was actually created by Roger Ailes. Right. And Roger Ailes, Roger Ailes had worked for Nixon. He had, he had basically humanize Nixon. And Nixon had run against Kennedy, he had run against Pat Brown, Jerry Brown's father, he lost both times. And then in 1968, they said, We're going to bring them back again. And Ailes was his immediate advisor, alles had actually worked for The Mike Douglas Show was a talk show. And he devised the idea of Man in the Arena. So he would bring Nixon into this almost like an arena like setting, right, and having field questions that were of course, that were related
Unknown Speaker 11:53
to exactly the kind of propaganda he wanted to get out there. Exactly.
Unknown Speaker 11:56
But but but he's hooked to that. And then, and then of course, and of course, he went on, he went on Fox, and he went on Fox, with the sole mission, that he was going to create a conservative network. But as it as it went on, as it went on it more from just conservatism and people coming in to talk about conservative issues. So like a complete intolerance, of the other side of the coin. And, and then, of course, while he was presiding over this, he was involved and a few other personalities were involved in a sec scandal on the Fox network, and of course, he had some he had to resign and others had to, and others had to leave. But that ties into that ties into the misogyny and that ties into, you know, what I think, are the main issues that people should be thinking about. Now, of course, people of course, vote about economics, they vote about their pocketbook. But to me, this is my perspective. There's there's only two issues in this election, women's rights, women's rights and democracy, right, the right to vote, right to be able to have
Unknown Speaker 13:10
a belief in our system, the belief and that we can have fair elections and that our elections are run properly. I mean, that is fundamental. If you don't believe that, what are we doing?
Unknown Speaker 13:20
Yeah, well, we'll see. And see the thing is, too, though, that it I think they have a plan to it's to change our way of government or change our way of life, for example. Now, the first step is, we want to limit people's right to vote, right, which has gone on in, you know, in the number of states, then the next step is to have people try to intimidate people from voting, even though they have the right to vote 100% Then the next step is, we're going to have all these, we're going to inundate the actual places where the votes are counted. to basically make
Unknown Speaker 13:57
it seem as though something has arrived make it seem as though there's nefarious things happening there, whether they are or not, they are not. Right. So
Unknown Speaker 14:07
and then then the other and then the other steps are, which I think you're gonna see a lot of in this election season is challenging the votes in the courts 100%. Let's say the race in Pennsylvania, the race in Wisconsin, the race in North Carolina, all these are going to be contested. The seeds
Unknown Speaker 14:25
are being planted already. Right. I mean, you see it on a lot of the social media platforms that are run by some of these candidates, especially candidates that have outright denied the election results. You are seeing them saying we will fight the fraud we will fight I mean and these are things that are starting before ballots are even gassed this sort of rhetoric. So of course, of course this is something we should fear that they'll take it to the courts immediately they're telling you they are right. They are telling us right now we are going to do that too. So be scared. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 14:52
but see the other thing about it is too though, that at least they're gonna they will be going to a court right seats. When when the ex president was was contesting the election and all these different states before all these different courts, the court system got it right. The court system got it. Right, right, unanimously. But now the case before the Supreme Court basically, is, we will will bypass the courts, that we will allow the legislatures in the states to make the final decisions as to whether the votes can be validated. And can you imagine that
Unknown Speaker 15:28
right? Well, that should be what we fear not so much that they can fear monger their way into the court system being completely derelict kangaroo court system. I don't think that's what's happening here. But correct, where this becomes something that's in the hands of the legislature, and all of a sudden, there's a loss of sense of control that we have in the court system. And then yes, things could get scary, very, very fast.
Unknown Speaker 15:49
And it's also interesting to see, particularly the race for the Senate, between Mehmet Oz and Fetterman, where basically, this man who was sick, he had a stroke is running against a man who was a doctor and a surgeon, and the level of like, intolerance to the fact that this man was recovering and right, you know, he's able to, you know, you know, get around now and, you know, basically be able to run for the Senate. He's looked down upon as like it's effective person,
Unknown Speaker 16:27
like people, Jewish people and disabled. It is there that
Unknown Speaker 16:31
lesson in it, too. They had a, they had a guy on this week from the ADL. And he was talking about the mammoth increase, and anti semitic acts in this country that have exploded
Unknown Speaker 16:45
there. I want to this goes beyond just the Kanye stuff you might be seen in the news, right? These are politicians. So I mean, you know, anybody who believes something coming out of Kanye West's mouth is entitled to their own opinion in that right. But no, these are our elected officials, or potentially elected officials that are espousing these views, not just major celebrities, right. And you have seen such an increase in this. I mean, I don't remember seeing anti semitic comments just flowing through the Twittersphere. From the side of politicians or the side of you know, people that are fans of celebrities, when I've never seen it at this scale, and that people are so brazen about it, right, that there's no humility and saying such horrendous things. Yeah, shocking.
Unknown Speaker 17:25
Well, I think I think that I think that Charlottesville was a landmark. Yeah, I think Charlottesville was a landmark because not only did you have the marching with the torches,
Unknown Speaker 17:39
their faces, they're out there in public. They don't
Unknown Speaker 17:41
care. Not only did you have David to not to have that you had that you had of the White House. legitimacy of their viewpoint. You see plenty of good people, you they're good. They're good people, good
Unknown Speaker 17:55
people Professor standards, you know,
Unknown Speaker 17:57
but the other thing about it. The other thing about the two is know that the campaigns have become tinged with that as well, in the case against Fetterman. First of all, they were saying, Well, he was insulting the rest of us, because he was sending his children to a Jewish school. And then they moved on from that to say, basically, that he's, he's, he's not a real Jew. He's a saint. He's a secular Jew, as as, as Biden is a secular Catholic, you have no right to question the person,
Unknown Speaker 18:32
the Jews, they don't understand. Right, the very same group of people they demonize and don't understand, then they're the ones that can adjudicate your level of Judaism, please.
Unknown Speaker 18:41
You know, it's it's kind of mind boggling. It's kind of mind boggling. Yeah. You know, so? I don't know, I don't know where, you know, I don't know what's going to happen in the election. I think. I think the main the main issue is, though, the main issue is that people have to vote. Yes. I mean, ultimately, the country is dependent on everyone coming together to exercise their franchise,
Unknown Speaker 19:06
let the numbers be so overwhelming, that there cannot be a doubt, you know, a lot that that mattered last week? No, truly, I mean, in there, it just, and then shortly it would show, maybe even to a lesser degree, if it does still end up going through the legislature or the court system got, you know, we don't know. But if you go out and vote, it shows that they're fear mongering tactics were not successful, right. The fact that they're going to have armed guards posted up in certain voting locations, the fact that they were showing up to arrest people that had active warrants once they registered to vote that show that that doesn't matter to you show that you the fact that your voice being heard matters so much more than the tribe, then the obstacles that are trying to be put in your way. Yeah, I think that's if nothing else. It will show the spirit of the American voter and the spirit of believing that democracy is something we're saving and that not only that it's there's ethics See there?
Unknown Speaker 20:00
Yeah. What's interesting too though as as the election has progressed, we're moving further and further away from fact back discourse and fact backed elections and fact backed results, and fact backed ideology. I mean, so much of this stuff that's that's out there on the various websites and chat rooms. Garbage is lunacy, garbage. How do people how do people how to people believe? And then part of
Unknown Speaker 20:29
me feels especially because I've been fortunate I have access to so many different databases, so many different legitimate publications, right? Does the average person just have access to a legitimate news source anymore? Are there any unbiased easily accessible news sources truly that exist? I mean, even the New York Times the Washington, I mean, these are trusted publications that still have a twinge to it. It doesn't. And they're all corporate owned it corporate meeting, it's just sort of I don't want to excuse believing in lunacy, and believing in ideas that cause a direct harm to people, right? It's you don't want to create excuses for bad behavior. However, where did these people turn to find the truth? If they're not offered some brilliant, you know, exceedingly focused on a diverse education kind of thing? Where are they going? They're going to Fox News. They're going to CNN, they're going to MSNBC, they're going to websites that may have and it's hard to blame them. Where else do you go? This is what we've made accessible?
Unknown Speaker 21:30
Yeah. Well, I think I think the ideal the ideal was that people try to choose a diverse group. Yes, news sources. So you, you look at, say CNN, MSNBC, but you can also look at Fox News or, or a Reuters or raw story or whatever it is this so many places out there, we have you know, what's sad, though, really wanna is that never in the history of the world, as far as we know, I don't know if they had something going on in the pre right prehistoric era. But
Unknown Speaker 22:04
I had visited billions of years prior, right? Yeah. But
Unknown Speaker 22:09
if you want really valid information, you can find it. But it's work. You see, that's the thing. We're, in many ways in intellectually lazy country,
Unknown Speaker 22:21
right. And, you know, what I'll give the public school system to a large degree does not teach you how to properly research anything, whether that be news, whether that be statistics, whether that be about your fellow neighbor, they don't, it's hard to find information sources, or know how to look right. So I think it comes from maybe a failure in education as well to show people how to look at things they should be part of your civic score should be, here's how you read an article and understand whether or not there's inherent bias to this article. Here's an article that's made me I don't feel like that's right, too much to ask, to make us a research illiterate to before we go out in the world when the internet such a pervasive part of everything we do.
Unknown Speaker 23:02
Yeah, I think I'm glad you mentioned education, because I think that education is one of the keys to informing people, not just about this election, but informing people about our history. Yep. I've been giving a lot of thought to this. I was what I was thinking over the weekend, I was thinking, you know, there's such a move in, in the school board elections and other elections, to eliminate, you know, basically teaching our history. Yes. 100%. You know, and I, and I've always said that, you know, the the ideal, of course, is is to educate people about these things. So anti semitism or racism or what have you, doesn't happen again, because people learn about how terrible it was and the disastrous consequences it had. But I think there's something else in there that came to me. They what they want to do, the people who are against this teaching, is they basically want to remove any obligation our society should have to do to correct it, including financial and otherwise 100%.
Unknown Speaker 24:14
Reparations has become a bad word, a naughty word, a buzzword they use to make you scared that they are going to take what you have and give it to them or not hold that really what it is. It's, it's they have used the idea of paying back for our sins, which is funny because they don't those sentiments aren't really held where Native Americans and American Indians are concerned but it is held where black people are concerned. And it is held sort of maybe even where gay people are concerned, but not so much American, but by and large. Yeah, we don't feel like we owe anybody anything. And if you don't know what we did, well, why would you owe anybody anything?
Unknown Speaker 24:48
Is it really it really is interesting because there have been a number of universities now that are that are moving away from diversity. There Moving away from diversity and since they still have it, but it's become more optional. And in the in the universities where it's optional. It's really cratered.
Unknown Speaker 25:12
Yeah, I'm gonna give a shout out to my university, I went to the new College of Florida where critical race theory is taught. It's interwoven, even in the science classes. I mean, it is a very, very liberal school, I would argue, I went to perhaps the most liberal school in the country. And because of critical race theory, these were not ideas I had held previously, I was forced to look at, hey, it wasn't an odd that there wasn't a lot of black kids where I went to school. Isn't that weird? And so then I wrote it, I ended up writing a 30 page dissertation on the fact that my hometown was using geographical barriers to then keep school districts in line with those geographical barriers, and then gerrymandering on top of those same barriers that were Hey, based on historical red lines. So critical race theory allowed me being taught critical race theory at a university allowed me to look at not only my past, but what was going on in the past of my own city, and then ask questions and look at actual policy and want to make changes to that policy, I would have never had I not been taught critical race theory, I would have never known the inner workings of why I didn't have black classmates. But now I do. And I get to understand that it was a lot more sinister than just no black kids live in your neighborhood, not quite the reality of the situation. Right. So I think if for some for children to not have the opportunity for college students not have the opportunity I was presented with to learn more about the horrors of our country and then find out more about yourself in turn is a disservice. Yeah, it is a disservice.
Unknown Speaker 26:33
Yeah, I was. I was. I was prepping a movie for one of my classes. Roger and me. About Flint, Michigan. Yep. And it's so mind boggling just to watch it because it was it was Michael Moore's first movie. Yeah. And this was 1989. And it had to do with the automobile industry. But then you move it, you move it ahead to today, and you had the huge water crisis in Flint. So it problems exacerbate themselves, problems exacerbate themselves. And the thing is that, that it's both white and black people who are affected in the case. And in the case, of course, Roger and me it was it was the mostly white workers who worked for GM, right, and while the factories were being closed, and then you move it ahead to last few
Unknown Speaker 27:29
years, and all the white people for left Flint, Michigan as it all turned down, right.
Unknown Speaker 27:34
And you have basically a black population 100%. And you have, you know, the situation where the water was poisonous. But I think what I've always marveled at, and not in a positive way, is the fact that the white middle class and the black middle class and Hispanic middle class are fighting each other at odds with each other. But the people at the top of the food chain, are making their
Unknown Speaker 28:02
marijuana as part of their own profit.
Unknown Speaker 28:05
That's exactly right. That's exactly.
Unknown Speaker 28:07
So I just think, I think we can we can do better. And it starts with education. So why do we the one way we can start doing better if we all say that's the one thing we say we can do better? We need change? Right? Well, it starts with teaching people what the change needed to be needs to be. And if we're refusing to even do that, I mean, come on.
Unknown Speaker 28:25
Yeah. Well, I'll just comment on immigration. So it's pro immigration in there for a second. Where did all these people who are living in our country come from, right? Because except for, except with the indigenous people, the American Indians, I guess, I guess, you'd have to say, the Indians that probably lived in Alaska, that sect of Indians, they were the original, the original people. And then everybody came, you know, and unlike, I guess what, I guess was it Ben Carson, who said that the slaves came here for opportunity? Yeah. But but they were they were original to train for servitude, but they were originally you know, so it's, it's, you know, there was a famous philosopher who said, the more things change, the more things remain the same. But, you know, people got to open up their eyes. They got to open up their minds, but most importantly, they could open up their hearts.
Unknown Speaker 29:23
I think. I think that's 100%. Right. And I think that is a good way to end the show. Now, I do want to remind everybody that's listening that you can send us emails and we're happy to answer questions or cover a topic that you're interested in. My email address is w e t h. E. l one@unlv.nevada.edu. We thank you so much for listening, and we hope you tune in again next week at Thursday at 630. Thanks, guys. Thank you. Thank you for listening to our show. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact us at weather one that's w e t h e l one@nevada.unlv.edu or two Contact Professor Charles Stanton contact him at CHA R L E S That's Charles dot Stanton s t a n t o n@unlv.edu CNN axon
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