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It’s a common belief in Indonesia, as it is in many parts of the world that young people don’t care about politics, but maybe they are just trying to grapple with the political sphere they have often been left out of by the generation before them. As two young Australians, Ashlynn Hannah and Sofia Jayne set out to learn from and listen to the stories of young Indonesians, our neighbours. We hope by sharing their stories, we can welcome conversations across borders and young voices will be brought to the front.
SOFIA JAYNE:
This podcast was produced in Melbourne, Australia on the lands of the Wurundjeri and Boonwurrung people of the Eastern Kulin Nations. We pay our respect to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Elders past and present.
VICTORIA WINATA:
Indonesians and Indigenous Australians have a shared history of intergenerational trauma, as a result of colonisation and state violence. We would like to acknowledge this history in solidarity.
Sovereignty was never ceded. It always was and always will be Aboriginal land.
ASHLYNN HANNAH:
This episode contains discussions on PTSD, rape, violence, abuse and kidnapping with the depiction of traumatic events through sound. We know these topics can be distressing so please look after yourself and reach out for support if you need to.
Audio excerpt — Protester at Aksi Kamisan in Jakarta:
[Chanting in Indonesia]
SATYA AZYUMAR:
“I think it's hard to live as a young activist in Indonesia right now because we have very low expectations. In fact we didn't have any expectations at all to our government, but they always success to disappoint us.”
SOFIA JAYNE:
Twenty-four-year-old Satya is an Indonesian activist and the coordinator of a youth organisation called Social Justice Indonesia, also known as SJI. For the past year, they have been trying to bring together a community of young people who share a vision for a more progressive Indonesia.
Audio excerpt — Protesters at the Indonesia Consulate General Melbourne:
[Chanting in Indonesian]
PIPIN JAMSON:
“We have to be the watchdog of that. Like the civil society, the people, the workers, the students, the lecturer and everybody's here in Melbourne.”
ASHLYNN HANNAH:
This is Pipin Jamson. She is currently completing a PhD at the University of Melbourne and organised a rally delivering a letter to the Indonesian consulate, calling for an end to the political dynasty of Indonesian President Jokowi’s leadership.
Audio excerpt — Pippin Jamson:
[Singing in Indonesian]
PIPIN JAMSON:
“Basically, in the current situation in Indonesia, the democracy is in jeopardised, especially with at the end of the Jokowi era, he started to manipulate the Constitution so that his son could run for the presidential election alongside with his previous opponent Prabowo back then.
“And then they won because like lots of research and indication, and from so many resources that conclude that they actually curang - like cheating? Yeah the process and hijack the Constitution."
SOFIA JAYNE:
Earlier this year in 2024, a major election was held and former army general, Prabowo Subianto, was voted in with 58 percent of votes. Known for his dance moves and track record of human rights abuses, many have been worrying for the future of Indonesia.
Alongside him as the vice-president, is the outgoing president Jokowi’s eldest son. And in August this year, ahead of the November local elections, the government tried to make changes to election laws to put Jokowi’s youngest son in a strong position to take the role of governor of the capital city Jakarta.
ASHLYNN HANNAH:
What halted these changes were acts of protest by the Indonesian people. In Jakarta, the largely peaceful nature of the demonstrations were met by police who used tear gas and water canons.
Satya and his friends experienced this first-hand.
SATYA AZYUMAR:
“The protest escalations were very fast. The police were very brutal. They shot tear gas to the mass and also my friends got abducted I guess. And yeah, we cannot find him.”
SOFIA JAYNE:
Satya’s friend has a large social media presence, which helped them find him, but not before he experienced violence and sexual abuse in police custody.
SATYA AZYUMAR:
“I think around 7:00 PM or 8:00 PM in social media, my friend who got arrested posted a face, where his face got a black eyes. And also got beaten by the police and it went viral and people were searching for him. And yeah, thankfully he got released.”
ASHLYNN HANNAH:
Indonesia has a history of students and young people leading movements for change.
As young Australians who studied in Jakarta, we became fascinated by this history and the ongoing movements led by students and young people in Indonesia, one of Australia’s closest neighbours.
SOFIA JAYNE:
When we came back home to Melbourne, we realised just how little Australians know about Indonesia. As young people, who have begun to grapple with decisions of who to vote for in elections and what narrative to believe amid headlines of corruption, wars, pandemics, protests. And as soon to graduate journalists, heading out into the minefield that is the media, we feel that it is more important than ever to connect with and learn from our neighbours.
[Theme Music Starts]
ASH:
This is Tetangga, a podcast where we hear the stories of our neighbours. Where we welcome conversation across borders and young voices are brought to the front.
[Theme Music Ends]
ASHLYNN HANNAH:
Social media can be a powerful tool for digital activism. In August this year, young Indonesians led the sharing of a blue emergency warning sign that found its way to the screens of Indonesians around the world. The post was a response to the government’s attempts to keep the Jokowi family in power, declaring a state of emergency for Indonesia’s democracy.
SATYA AZYUMAR:
“The ongoing emergency warning protest is also a sign that there are still a lot of young people who care about our country. Because people from surprising background, maybe like workers, middle class, they also joined protest.”
SOFIA JAYNE:
Satya and his friends at SJI are trying to keep this momentum going. They host regular meetings and study groups where their 17 members get together to openly and critically discuss politics in Indonesia.
SATYA AZYUMAR:
“I don't think that Politicians in Indonesia have that kind of ideology right now because they are all very conservative, whether it's nationalist conservatives or religious conservatives. But there are no rooms for progressive people in Indonesia to enter politics.
“We want to create a safe space for all Indonesian young people especially for marginalised groups and vulnerable groups like LGBTQ people. And then yeah, people from different kind of backgrounds to discuss together about social and political issues, but from more critical perspectives, more ideological perspectives.
“So there is the first step. We create the discussion, a series of public discussion and also we kind of create like a study group to discuss about books about issues from critical perspectives.
“But I don't know in the long term we're trying to maybe connect people from different kind of progressive groups into one larger, bigger group to maybe start a political party or political movement or political organisation to seize the power. Because one of the biggest criticism to Indonesian civil society movement is, yeah, the social movement always fail to transform to political movement, and that's what we try to achieve.”
ASHLYNN HANNAH:
Satya is no stranger to standing up for what he believes in. He has been active in movements for change over the last few years, taking part in the 2019 protests that followed the government’s attempt to introduce a new criminal code.
SOFIA JAYNE:
These 2019 protests were led by students and resulted in President Jokowi delaying the introduction of the new code. It was eventually passed in December of 2022, but will come into place in 2026. This code will replace the current criminal code which was developed by the Dutch when they colonised Indonesia from the years of 1816 to 1941. This new legislation was sold by the Indonesian government as a means to step away from their colonial past. Instead what it will bring is restrictions on protesting, freedom of speech and cohabitation laws, preventing non-married couples from living together and particularly putting queer communities at risk.
ASHLYNN HANNAH:
The 2019 protests were the biggest since May 1998 when student-led demonstrations forced the resignation of President Suharto who ruled Indonesia under an authoritarian regime for three decades.
Audio excerpt — Archival audio:
[Crowd of student protesters 1998]
ASHLYNN HANNAH:
Students protested at universities over cost of living prices and the lack of employment opportunities. Then on May 12 1998, security forces shot and killed four students, known as the Trisakti tragedy, which set off riots around the country resulting in more than 1000 deaths.
Central to the tragedy of May 1998 were also attacks on Chinese-Indonesians.
ASHLYNN HANNAH:
Prejudice towards this community predated Indonesia’s independence but accelerated during Suharto’s regime. As much of the population struggled with the economic crisis of the time, a few Chinese-Indonesians gained prominence, holding positions of wealth and authority in the government. Some Indonesians began to associate ordinary Chinese traders with these elites, looting and destroying their homes and businesses.
Audio excerpt — Archival audio:
[Crowd looting Chinese-Indonesian shops and homes in 1998]
SOFIA JAYNE:
At least 400 Chinese-Indonesian women were raped. The attacks are largely believed to have been orchestrated and participated in by soldiers of Suharto’s regime.
However, the demonstrations went on calling for Suharto’s resignation, with more students and pro-democracy activists injured and many kidnapped.
Audio excerpt — Satya Azyumar and SJI member at Aksi Kamisan rally:
[Speaking in Indonesian]
SOFIA JAYNE:
At least 13 of these people are still missing, but their families have never forgotten. This year in 2024, marks the 17th year of Aksi Kamisan which translates to Thursday Action – a weekly protest led by the families of victims of 1998 and other human rights violations. Dressed in black, holding black umbrellas, these families and the crowds of students and activists who stand with them, come to remember the victims and demand justice.
SATYA AZYUMAR:
“Ironically, those who drafted these bills is the one who protest in 1998 when they were students and now they become the politicians and in government. But they're now making laws to attack freedom of speech, freedom of expressions.”
SOFIA JAYNE:
In Indonesia since the tragic events of May 1998 which saw the deliberate targeting of students and Chinese-Indonesians, young activists like Satya deal with the memory of that year by attending Kamisan protests and organising SJI meetings.
Audio excerpt — Victoria Winata performing May 1998:
“I hear the sounds distinctly. The sounds of suffering as women scream from the distant town…”
ASHLYNN HANNAH:
In Melbourne, a young Chinese-Indonesian woman deals with the intergenerational trauma of May 1998 in a different way.
Introducing Victoria Winata, who at the end of 2023 wrote and performed a one-person play at the Motley Bauhaus Theatre in Melbourne, titled ‘May 1998’. Born in Semarang in Central Java, Victoria moved to Australia when she was 13. After completing her secondary schooling, she began her studies at the University of Melbourne, where she first learnt about the events of May 1998 and the effects it had on Chinese-Indonesians. But for her, this realisation only further deepened the emotions attached to her identity.
VICTORIA WINATA:
“So I would never call myself a victim of 98, for example. But however, as a Chinese Indonesian person, this event is quite meaningful to me and my family because we feel the collective trauma of it, you could say, which is what I tried to show in the play. And my mum and my family still struggle with the effects of racism because, I mean, my mum experienced quite a lot of racism in Indonesia, and I guess, that type of intergenerational trauma has made me feel even more connected to that event.”
Audio excerpt — Ashlynn, Sofia and Victoria:
[Laughing over coffee the first time they met]
SOFIA JAYNE:
The first time we met Victoria was over coffee and hot chocolate at the University of Melbourne. From our conversations about art as a form of activism to the disappointment of close friends not being able to relate to her or understand what it means to have experienced intergenerational trauma. It was apparent her resilience and connection to her identity were intertwined.
ASHLYNN HANNAH:
Victoria, could you tell us what it was like to grow up Chinese-Indonesian in Indonesia?
VICTORIA WINATA:
“My mum, she raised me with the mindset that, as Chinese Indonesians, we would never be welcome in the country. So since I was young, I was very much aware of my identity as a Chinese Indonesian because my mum kept emphasising it. And she taught me a lot about the kind of racism and the lack of belonging she felt in the country. So, I didn't feel shocked. However, it got to a point when it was at the beginning of 2023 where for some reason, this big wave of sadness came over me. There was this one week in 2023 where I felt like I cried almost every day because I was thinking so much about ‘98, and I thought too much about the issue.”
Audio excerpt — Victoria Winata performing May 1998:
“I am about to tell you a story. I am about to tell you a history. A story about my life; a history about my country. Those two are intertwined…”
SOFIA JAYNE:
The process of learning about the tragic events of May 1998 transformed into writing a play for you. We know the main character is an eighteen-year old girl. Can you tell us who she is?
VICTORIA WINATA:
“And we know that she was in Indonesia during these riots, obviously. But I never mentioned the city. I never mentioned the name. And that's because the more I looked into May 1998, the more I realised there's a real diversity in experiences amongst the victims. You know, there were rape victims who committed suicide. There were some who got pregnant.
"There were some who got exiled from their own families. There were some that recovered. There were some that didn't, and so many cities all across Indonesia, not just Java, but in Sumatra, Kalimantan, Sulawesi, they all got affected by the riots. So I thought, I can't and I'm not an expert. And I wasn't alive then, so there's no way I could just tell a single story.”
ASHLYNN HANNAH:
It’s a common belief in Indonesia, as it is in many parts of the world that young people don’t care about politics, but maybe they are just trying to grapple with the political sphere they have often been left out of by the generation before them. Here we have a young Indonesian woman trying to create a path forward from the events of 1998 by processing it in the only way she knows how – through performance.
SOFIA JAYNE:
Victoria, how has this play helped you in coming to terms with this history?
VICTORIA WINATA:
“So the process of writing it and the process of performing it, I would say it's really cathartic. So I really enjoyed performing the play because I think that it helped me reach a point now where I feel like, okay, I don't have to be obsessed over this event anymore, because like I said, I kept obsessing over it last year and I just kept thinking about it. I even cried over it.”
Audio excerpt — Victoria Winata performing May 1998:
“I don’t want to talk about the riots, the protests; the politics, the burnings…”
VICTORIA WINATA:
“But now I don't feel the same way. I don't feel the same obsession. I guess it's because I can just accept it as an event and I can move on. And of course, I mean, moving on isn't as simple as that.
“Of course, I still need to talk about it. Of course, I don't know everything about it, but yeah, I would say writing it and performing it was a big help for me to process it, but it was also really exhausting. You know, it took a lot of emotional energy out of me."
Audio excerpt — Victoria Winata performing May 1998:
“Suharto has stepped down. Reformasi has occurred. The politics, the protests, they are all over!”
VICTORIA WINATA:
“I don't feel the need to talk about it constantly because, yeah, it's just so tiring that with issues like these, you can't talk about them all the time, or else it just takes a toll on you.”
Audio excerpt — Victoria Winata performing May 1998:
“I remember that day, the 21st of May. Suharto’s speech when he stepped down…”
ASHLYNN HANNAH:
Victoria, from our conversations, you’re clearly someone who pays close attention to politics, and social and cultural issues, but you’re also critical of certain movements and their approaches to activism. Can you tell us more about this?
VICTORIA WINATA:
“The reason why I disagree with some movements and organisations is because I think they can get into a sort of black and white mindset where they decide, no, this is what's right. No, this is what's wrong.
“I mean, you see social media posts, for example, which I don't know if they have a caption or they have a post saying ‘if you don't get involved in this, you're complicit. If you don't demonstrate, what excuse do you have?’ I really hate that. I don't like it at all because as a person who has had lived experience with intergenerational trauma, I know what it's like to be a minority. I know what it's like to feel oppressed. I know what it's like to be discriminated against. And I really don't appreciate those kinds of posts because I personally don't demonstrate, I don't get involved in protests, but that doesn't mean I don't care.”
SOFIA JAYNE:
As someone who has experienced intergenerational trauma, Victoria is strong in her statement that this does not make her a victim.
VICTORIA WINATA:
“I don't want to be considered a victim. And I think this is something that gets missed out on in UN human rights discourse and activism. Which is when you're talking about people who've been oppressed, you immediately associate them as victims. I mean, when we see the Palestinians, for example. But what I like about Palestinians is that they've also worked very hard to show the world that they still experience joy and happiness, despite the suffering they've gone through.
“And that's something I really respect, because I think it's important to humanise people who've gone through these issues, which is another reason why I've written May ‘98. It's important to show that we have interests. It's important to show that we're human beings because feelings are not, you know, they don't go in a straight binary, in a straight line or anything.”
ASHLYNN HANNAH:
With this podcast, we hope that people in Indonesia and Australia will listen and learn. That together, we can share stories between neighbours. So, Victoria, what would you like to say to everyone who’s listening?
Victoria WINATA:
“To everyone who's listening, whether you're Indonesian or non Indonesian, I want you to be critical. I want you to be open minded. I want you to be respectful of other people's opinions, to be aware of stories. And I also want you to perform activism in your own way, in a way that feels right to you. You don't have to demonstrate. You don't have to write a play. You don't have to perform. You don't have to do any of those things unless you want to.
“Because, believe me, I've tried to demonstrate. I've tried different forms of activism. It's not that I've been too lazy to do it. I have tried those things, but I've never felt satisfied, and I just feel like I'm forcing to do it. And if you feel like you're forcing yourself to do something, then it's not a good idea because it's not coming from a good place. It's not coming from an honest place, because I won't protest if it makes me feel like I'm forcing myself. Because it's unfair to the people whose lives are in actual danger. Those people who are suffering, so I would prefer to do it in my own way, in the way that I like, in a way that feels true to myself. Because if you're true to yourself, it means that you're being honest to other people as well.”
[Theme Music Starts]
ASHLYNN HANNAH:
You’ve been listening to Tetangga, a podcast released with Melbourne-based magazine Inside Indonesia. I’m Ashlynn Hannah…
SOFIA JAYNE:
…and I’m Sofia Jayne.
Next episode we’ll be discussing issues facing women and LGBTQIA+ people in Indonesia, focussing on the work they’re doing to create change in their communities. We speak to Desi Sentuf, a young Papuan woman who founded Atap Papua, an organisation to help young people in her community gain access to education. We also talk to Naila Rizqi Zakiah and Australian activist Kate Walton, who worked together at Jakarta Feminist, an organisation that seeks to improve gender equality and combat gender-based violence in Indonesia.
ASHLYNN HANNAH:
As two non-Indonesian people sharing stories of Indonesian communities, we’d like to make a disclaimer that we are not experts. In fact, we’re also learning, which is the aim of this podcast – we hope that you’ll learn along with us and that by facilitating these conversations, we can learn from each other.
SOFIA JAYNE:
We hope you’ve enjoyed listening to these stories and if you have a story of your own that you’d like to share, please reach out to us.
ASHLYNN HANNAH:
You can contact us via Instagram @tetanggapodcast. If you’d like to learn more, you can also visit the Inside Indonesia website. We’ve compiled a list of resources where you can go to keep learning. If you have a suggestion of something you’d like to add to this list, please let us know. We’re always looking to share more resources.
SOFIA JAYNE:
This podcast is produced and hosted by us.
Our theme music is from the album Saudara by Joelistics, Komang and Gamelan DanAnda.
We have used audio sourced from community and news broadcasters. And the sounds you hear during our interview with Victoria Winata, are from her play ‘May 1998’.
Thanks so much for listening,
ASHLYNN HANNAH:
We’ll talk to you again soon.
[Theme Music Ends]