Beyond The Job Title | Underrepresented Career Stories

Our conversation delves into an array of thought-provoking topics, including the profound impact of mentorship on young minds, the significance of role modeling, strategies to find exceptional mentors, and the revealing nature of seeking advice. We explore Albert's insights on fostering high standards for yourself, the transformative power of hard work, transitioning from education to the tech landscape, and the essence of effective leadership marked by humility. Embracing a mindset of constant learning and resilience, Albert's story exemplifies the wisdom gained from failure and the empowering notion that permission isn't a prerequisite for pursuing one's aspirations. This episode encapsulates Albert's journey and illuminates pathways to personal and professional excellence.

  • (00:00) - Intro
  • (02:03) - Who is Albert and What Is His Mission?
  • (03:52) - Guiding the Next Generation: Mentorship's Impact on Juvenile Students
  • (05:57) - What Kind Of Role Model Are You Being To Your Younger Sister?
  • (08:15) - How To Find Great Mentors?
  • (11:22) - What Asking For Advice Reveals About Someone?
  • (15:38) - Raising the Bar: Cultivating High Expectations for Success
  • (16:23) - Pivoting From Education into Tech
  • (17:10) - The Grit Factor: Hard Work and Its Role in Achievement
  • (23:56) - Aligning Commitment: Fostering Dedication Across Teams
  • (30:44) - Leading with Humility: Unlocking the Key Feature of Effective Leadership
  • (33:42) - Learning Mindset: Upskilling and Evolving as a Constant Journey
  • (39:47) - Lessons Learned From Failure
  • (53:53) - You Don’t Need To Ask For Permission
  • (58:57) - Outro

Albert’s Bio

Albert transitioned from being an award-winning teacher to becoming a prominent figure in the startup landscape, with a strong focus on operations and customer success. His entrepreneurial journey includes co-founding two tech startups and an e-commerce brand. In the realm of customer success, he has successfully built two customer success teams from the ground up, leading to remarkable revenue growth of 3x and 2x at separate startups. Albert's ability to achieve an impressive 125+% net revenue retention rate and significantly reduce onboarding time to value from 90+ days to just 14 days underscores his strategic and operational acumen.

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🎙About The Podcast

Join Cesar Romero, as he interviews entrepreneurs, creators, and ambitious professionals from various industries and explores their journeys, struggles, and triumphs. We go beyond the surface-level titles and delve into the passions, hobbies, and experiences that have shaped their lives and careers.

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Creators & Guests

Host
Cesar Romero
Helping startups and SMBs build strong customer relationships that drive product adoption, reduce churn, and increase revenue | Community-Driven | Podcast Host
Guest
Albert Chun
AI | Operator | Advisor

What is Beyond The Job Title | Underrepresented Career Stories?

The lack of diversity in tech can lead to imposter syndrome, bias, and a sense of isolation that hinders your growth and ambition.

Welcome to 'Beyond The Job Title Podcast,' where we shine a spotlight on the journeys of underrepresented tech professionals and allies within the SaaS industry.

Join us as we delve into the personal development and career insights that have fueled their success.

Discover the stories of trailblazing underrepresented SaaS founders, executives, and professionals who have broken barriers and achieved remarkable milestones.

Whether you're seeking inspiration, mentorship, or actionable strategies to advance your career, our podcast is your go-to resource.

Tune in to gain valuable insights, build your network, and navigate your tech career journey with confidence.

Subscribe now and take the next step toward your own success in the world of tech.

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Albert Chun | BJT15

[00:00:00] Albert: one thing that he said was, you know, what would... your sister thing. What kind of role model are you being to your younger sister? And that I think the reality of my behavior just saw just the impact, the depth of impact that might be behavior could offer was shown back to me in a very real way, more real than, you know, you know, get yourself grounded, whatever.
[00:00:24] Albert: You know, that's, that's one thing, but my tolerance for, for hurting my own family is like very low, I don't want to do it. And that, that I think was a turnaround time.
[00:00:36] Cesar: Hey friends, this is your host Cesar Romero. And you're listening to beyond the job title podcast, the show that explores the human experiences to shape our professional and personal lives. My guest for this episode is Albert Chun. [00:01:00] Albert transition from being an award-winning teacher. To building startups. Amongst his many accolades. We have been a two time co-founder of a tech startups. Co-founder of an e-commerce brand. Harbored venture fellow. He's built two customer success teams from scratch. and he's helped startups. Uh, Triple and double dare to revenue. and he's also being a teacher at number one, us school in the us. And many more. And in this episode, we're going to dive deeper into. Some of the lessons that he's learned on this transformational path of making the pivot from education into tech. And before we dive into the episode, I have one small favor to ask. If you find something valuable and if you enjoyed the episode, please make sure to describe. So that you don't miss out on any future episodes. Thank you so much for joining and here's my conversation with Albert.
[00:01:57] Cesar: Albert, thanks so much for coming on the [00:02:00] show and taking the time to share a bit about your journey with us.
[00:02:03] Cesar: We appreciate you. And while I was reviewing the notes, you know, one of the things that stood out to me, uh, that you wrote there was the relentless pursuit of the mission. And I figured, you know, I wanted to start with that. Um, if someone were to ask you, you know, on the street, like, Hey, Albert, like, who are you and what mission are you on?
[00:02:23] Cesar: Like what, what would come to mind and what would be the first thing that, that you would share with
[00:02:27] Albert: this person? Yeah, that's a great question. Now, I think for me, it actually started way back when I was in college trying to decide what to study. Is it pre dental? Is it education? I ended up being a teacher going from being a teacher to school leader and working in tech and customer success and operations.
[00:02:50] Albert: It's always been pretty simple. It's help others, right? I, I think, um, I actually think a lot about Toni Morrison. She has this quote that says [00:03:00] the function of freedom is to free others. And I, and I feel like, you know, similarly I've been helped tremendously. So many mentors older, my older brother, my family and all these people who my wife, all these people are such immense pillars of support for me, and it would, it only feels right and natural for me to provide that level of support and help to others.
[00:03:26] Albert: So whether it was in the nonprofit sector or in the private sector. I found that that has been the most. Um, central theme in, in my
[00:03:34] Cesar: career. I love that. Helping others always. Yeah. That's like the ultimate purpose, right? Uh, that's what we're here for. Yeah. And when you were deciding back in college, you know, what, what path to pursue, you know, what prompted you to go after education?
[00:03:52] Albert: Yeah, so when I was a student, I was a terrible student. Um, I was a huge troublemaker. Um, yeah, I [00:04:00] had gotten into so many altercations, suspensions, all of the things, um, definitely gave some gray hairs to my mother. Um, and what was Such a major intervention was, um, I had a whole group of mentors from Cal who intervened in my life, spoken to my life and, um, coached me, helped me develop not only academically, but personally, um, and I might argue the personal unlock led to academic unlocks.
[00:04:31] Albert: And when I. experienced that level of, it was almost a transcendent experience. Honestly, I almost, it sounds a little extreme, but I almost felt like an animal before I just had, I had like a lizard brain mentality, you know, reward, punishment, you know, operating at a very like basic binary level. And, um, I think, yeah, there was just so much that was unlocked for me personally.
[00:04:59] Albert: And [00:05:00] it led to, um, a series of. Subsequent wins that I, I can't help but attribute to that, that season. And so, you know, when I was in college, I had the opportunity to work with, um, like juvenile halls and some of the most troubling schools in the Bay area. And, um, some of the most troubling students. And I just threw myself into it.
[00:05:21] Albert: Um, like I, having been an intent, having, having been in juvenile hall when I was a student, going back, working with students, I was working with students, like 30, 40 hours while being a full time student awarded my own class, almost all, but one of my students got their high school diploma. These are like the kids were at the brink.
[00:05:39] Albert: These are the 17 year old kids. Yeah. You messed up, you're going, you're going, you're getting tried as an adult, like it was, it was tough. And like, so for me that there was nothing more rewarding than, uh, kind of going back and giving back in that way. Um, and yeah, and so that, that's what kind of, uh, pushed me to education.
[00:05:57] Cesar: I love that. So many questions I have here. One of those is, do you remember the specific mentor [00:06:00] or, um, the specific moment, you know, maybe a specific message that got through to you and that got you to woke up, uh, and change your behavior? Um, yeah, I was curious about that. Great question.
[00:06:13] Albert: So it was probably like the 10th fight I had gotten into when I was 14.
[00:06:21] Albert: Um, yeah, I, it was one of the last days of school. I, you know, get into this fight, run away from the cops and got pulled in the back seat. And the guy who pulled me over, um, was the school resource officer at my younger sister's middle school. So this officer, his name was Officer Harumaki. And at the time, I, you know, my sister meant the world to me.
[00:06:49] Albert: And, um, you know, one thing that he said was, you know, what would... your sister thing. What kind of role model are you being to your younger sister? And that I think [00:07:00] the reality of my behavior just saw just the impact, the depth of impact that might be behavior could offer was shown back to me in a very real way, more real than, you know, you know, get yourself grounded, whatever.
[00:07:17] Albert: You know, that's, that's one thing, but my tolerance for, for hurting my own family is like very low, I don't want to do it. And that, that I think was a turnaround time. And I, I'd be remiss to say, you know, I'm, I'm personally a Christian and a lot of things dropped in that moment, when I realized, uh, just, uh, A spiritual turnaround.
[00:07:38] Albert: And after that, just had a, a lot of mentors. I can name many of them. Daniel, you Daniel beyond Johnny Kim, Janice Kim, all these people, right? Um, and these were all people who are about five years older than me. They were like sophomores juniors in college, and they would spend so much time mentoring us, like on a week to week.[00:08:00]
[00:08:00] Albert: Phone calls, endless, like just one on ones coaching us through and, um, and that part, there's not one moment. It's probably just a general long term relationship, but that was a, the most acute point was seeing my own mess in the mirror.
[00:08:15] Cesar: I love that. And, you know, one of the questions that's. Uh, people ask often is how do I find mentors, right?
[00:08:22] Cesar: Uh, and I wanted to ask you in your case, was it something that happened by chance because of the environment and the circumstances that you were in, or at some point, were you intentional about, you know what, this person looks like they could be a great mentor. Let me reach out to them. Yeah. Well, what was the process for you like to, to find mentors?
[00:08:43] Cesar: This is such
[00:08:44] Albert: a good question. I didn't like. I will say one thing is I had always had mentors in my life, but it was never formalized or crystallized in the way that I Kept hearing people [00:09:00] talk about it. Everyone talks about mentors. It was like, Oh, he's my mentor. But while I have coffee with my mentor.
[00:09:05] Albert: And then I was like, Oh man, I want someone named the mentor. Right. Yeah. All
[00:09:09] Cesar: the while I'm
[00:09:10] Albert: like having lunch with like all these like road scholars and engineers and chemists and all these like incredible people, founders of startups and all these things, and then learning life from them. And I'm like.
[00:09:23] Albert: Wish I had a mentor. They're all around you, right? And so, um, that's one part. And I think I was just in a hub and a community, namely my church, where there were just so many generous people with people were generous with their time and, uh, significantly accomplished people. Um, but I think as I. grew, went on in my relationship, it was just, how do I maintain those relationships?
[00:09:46] Albert: It wasn't, I'll be honest, I didn't have a plan. I didn't have a, like a CRM, you know, what's my, my Rolodex looking like it was Salesforce. It was, it was, Hey, staying in touch, currently asking questions. Um, I think [00:10:00] that was, Like I have a just a general and insatiable curiosity, right? And I really love one on one conversations and I don't mind asking why five times to someone and digging through and struggling and following up and thanking them afterwards and keeping them up to date that that's just like my natural.
[00:10:20] Albert: And then when I went over into, I think the private sector. It was. Yeah, it was just, it's something I personally maintain on a quarterly basis, just keeping in touch with people who I admire at different levels of professional career, someone who's relatively my peers, some people are younger and more junior.
[00:10:42] Albert: I consider those You know, while I may be considered some type of a mentor, the lessons are, are everywhere.
[00:10:49] Cesar: I love that you mentioned being curious, and I think that's the key, right? If you're generally curious about someone's background, feel free to reach out and [00:11:00] ask like a genuine question, right? Most, most often than not, people will reciprocate and kind of see through, Hey, this person is actually being genuine, like they're actually curious about it.
[00:11:10] Cesar: Um, Because unfortunately, there's a lot of, uh, spam out there. So people have this guard, right? But I think as soon as you can show that you are actually curious, uh, that, that kind of opened doors. It's like magic.
[00:11:22] Albert: It's very true. Yeah. I think it's, I think deep down, like we like to help others. And I think, you know, the act of someone asking for that advice or help or counsel or what have you that signals.
[00:11:38] Albert: A significant, it signals a lot about you, right? What does it probably say? Sounds like you're probably not cocky or arrogant or proud or think you know it all, right? Like it probably shows you're a little bit extroverted. You're willing to put yourself out there, be vulnerable. It says that, I mean, we don't think about all those things, but it signals quite a bit.
[00:11:59] Albert: And I [00:12:00] think, you know, and I will say this. There are some people who do ignore you. I've, yes, I've certainly asked enough people to get rejected or be ignored. I've, I mean, I've talked to people where they're like, Hey, Albert. You don't know shit about this. I'm like, well, that, that hurt my feelings, but that's also feedback.
[00:12:18] Albert: Great. Everybody didn't ask you a great question there. Maybe you're right. Maybe, maybe I should not have asked a senior level person, this intro question that I could have probably gotten it from anyone or from the internet. Right. And so even though some of those things may be a bit prickly or uncomfortable, it's all good feedback.
[00:12:34] Albert: You know,
[00:12:34] Cesar: yeah, being open to feedback, right? That's, that's, it's super important. Now I want to flip it here and because I know mentorship is, is a big part of how you carry yourself professionally, personally. Is there an instance where you had a mentee? Where you got to see a transformation in them, um, you know, maybe something instead, or, or, or, or maybe throughout [00:13:00] mentorship throughout, uh, the years or the months, uh, you were able to see the before and after what was, what was that like?
[00:13:05] Albert: Yeah. Um, I'll be one. I'll be careful to use the word mentee personally, not on you, but on me because, um, you know, when it comes to these things, it's like I, like I offered earlier, it's like, man, I'm learning so much from you and it's just like two way relationship. But, um, one person on my team, they're multiple.
[00:13:22] Albert: I'll just choose one. Um, his name is, uh, actually I won't share his name. I don't want to embarrass him, but, um, he came in like with no customer success experience at all. Um, you know, he had a chip on his shoulder cause he was trying to finish his undergrad degree and a few years behind a bit older, and he just, um, He was such a relentless worker, great attitude, all the things, but they didn't have quite the framework, the North star, the guidance, the structure, the scaffold to grow.
[00:13:53] Albert: Right. Had a, had a litany of bad managers in the past, a lot of payments, a lot of small minded stuff. And, um, everything I [00:14:00] offered to that guy, he just took absorbed and ran with it. And it was smallest things, right? It was like, Hey, Hey, Albert, I spent five hours. Making this one pager instructional, look at this.
[00:14:14] Albert: And I looked at it, I was like, Whoa, this looks like shit. You know, I was like, wow, you spent, you wasted so much time and it looks like garbage. And I sent a note for every, I'm pretty candid with him. Uh, good, good. And, uh, I didn't say all of those things he'll laugh in hindsight, but, uh, I showed him this tool, um, called scribe as an example.
[00:14:31] Albert: He's like, Oh. I did what he did five hours. It took me like 30 seconds. And he's like, and, and it was little things like that. He didn't take it any type of way. It's like, Oh, well, that's great feedback. Great tool. Right. His, his decks transformed the way he showed up in meetings. He used to take up a lot of airspace, started asking better questions.
[00:14:49] Albert: He had no boundaries, started building boundaries, starting taking on more while doing less. It was fascinating. I mean, he got, he got promoted. Four times in [00:15:00] 10 months, um, started taking on, went from an IC to a manager, to taking on these different verticals and an absolute, the territory of absolute ambiguity, right.
[00:15:10] Albert: And building structure, making something out of nothing. The hardest part about getting something zero to one, right. Um, and yeah, not, I mean, there, and there are all of these different hygiene metrics where Double, triple, all the things immensely proud of him. And that happened to several people on my team in the last couple of years.
[00:15:33] Cesar: I love that. And I love that you're honest. So you don't sugarcoat things. It's either black or white.
[00:15:38] Albert: I mean, because there's, there is a, there's a balance to everything. Right. Right. There is a season of coddling hand holding a little bit. There's a season for that. Yeah. There's also a season of. Hey, like you can do more than that and expect a bit more.
[00:15:54] Albert: Oh, like if you're going to ask me for feedback, don't give me feedback at 60% done, get it to [00:16:00] 90. And then let's talk. Right. I mean, I hate to bring up a parent analogy here, but it's like that, right? Yeah. Yeah. Seasons of, of doing a little bit both. And then, and what ends up happening is. People surprise you when you have high expectations of them.
[00:16:14] Cesar: That's exactly what I was thinking. You, you read my mind. It's, you know, people rise to the level of the expectations that you set on them, right? Even your kids, right? If you don't expect much from your kid, then,
[00:16:23] Albert: you know,
[00:16:23] Albert: Um, all right. So
[00:16:23] Cesar: let's, let's Let's take it back to what was a moment where you feel like, Hey, I want to transition from education into into tech, right? Like why? What was the pivotal moment? What prompted that? Um, you know, what were some of the challenges that that you experienced? And, um, yeah, how was how
[00:16:40] Albert: was a leap?
[00:16:41] Albert: Yeah, great question. So one, I will say I I think I was practicing the skill of risk taking well before I was doing this. And before I was doing this, I was, I was thinking about a pivot for a long time, Cesar. [00:17:00] And I'll never forget what my, a friend of mine, um, a mentor friend of mine, he's a founder, um, of an ed tech company out in the Bay area.
[00:17:10] Albert: And he told me, he said, Albert, you know, no matter what industry or whatever you do, Like it will always be valuable to work really hard. Right. And I, he said, you know, technical skill, all these things aside, like you're going to, if you pivot over, you're going to have to run really hard and fast. So you should practice running really hard and fast now.
[00:17:30] Albert: And another way to put that, I think is the way you do anything is the way you do everything. Right. And so when I was a teacher, I thought, okay, I, I could, I am going to operate and do everything I can at the highest level possible. Because this is what's given to me one classroom go hard in the paint became a number one classroom in the school, we became the number one school in the city, county, district, [00:18:00] whatever.
[00:18:00] Albert: Right. And they're working at a school, number one school in the country. At the time, our classroom became the number one in Northern California. Right. And then you go and you transform that one of the lowest performing schools getting all that lessons and turning them into a spotlight school. Right.
[00:18:15] Albert: Right. And like, just, it was a, I've shared this before, but it's the relentless pursuit of the mission. What's your goal here? Hey, your, your goal is to help as many students as possible. Well, don't you dare, don't, don't you dare not take that with the utmost seriousness. Right. Because if you miss your, if you miss on that KPI, what happens?
[00:18:31] Albert: Oh, a kid doesn't graduate. May increase your chances of going to prison or not getting a job or being a high earner or not transforming the trajectory of their, their entire family. That's a huge weight on your shoulders, right? You better take that KPI incredibly seriously. And so for me, it was, it was, uh, I just had a, a relentless approach to the mission and it was whether I lost sleep or spent money out of my own pocket or whatever, like I was going to make that happen.
[00:18:58] Albert: Right. And so, and when I [00:19:00] decided to transition over to the startup world, the thing that was the moment of acuity was when I found out I was having my son and I realized, Hey, I got to provide with a capital P Right for my own. It's just, it is what it is. You become some nesting mode, whatever the hell it is, whatever biological trigger that was, but hey, it did something.
[00:19:21] Albert: And so, um, and then I, and I think the other part is, uh, part of that conversation with myself was one day I'm going to ask my son to go after his dream. One of the dreams I've always had and that kind of shut out because I was in my thirties at the time was to go to Harvard. So if I like, if I had a son and he was in his thirties and had this, you know, this, this dream out there, I would tell him to freaking go after it.
[00:19:48] Albert: Who cares? Just do it. Right? And so I decided to just apply it to myself. And, um, that's what Harvard was. That's what going after the startups. And, um, yeah, that was, yeah, that, that was
[00:19:58] Cesar: the impetus. That's a, [00:20:00] that's a great mindset to have in everything you do, you know, like whatever you're given, make the best out of it and, and more.
[00:20:06] Cesar: Um, now what does two, two questions here, what does hard work mean to you? Because I feel like that word gets thrown out a lot. And I think for a lot of people, it might mean. different things. Um, and I wanted to ask you what your definition of hard work is. And also, how do you get, you might be committed to the mission, right?
[00:20:26] Cesar: But in order to achieve great things, Most likely you're going to need to enroll other people into that same mission, right? How do you get them to commit to that same level?
[00:20:36] Albert: That's a great question. So hard work. One, I totally agree with you. It is so subjective. Right. I will tell you the picture that comes to mind when I think of hard work.
[00:20:48] Albert: I think about my... Non English speaking father waking up every morning at five in the morning to go, you know, fold socks and [00:21:00] sell clothes with my mom in inner city, Oakland, 5 for five socks doing that for 16 years. To provide for the family, you know, it's like, Hey, what are we all excited for first of the month?
[00:21:15] Albert: Why? That's when welfare checks come out. Oh, that's sick. All right. You're not going to school today. Let's go sell some socks. Right? Let's go out to freaking the McDonald's for lunch. Get the money out of our sock and check how well we're doing today. You know what I mean? Like that's and transforming the family van into a cargo van where we, you know, showcase all of these things, right.
[00:21:38] Albert: That it is, uh, that, I mean, that to me is. Like hard work. And so, I think with that paradigm, now what am I, a knowledge worker? Like some, I click and type stuff, and you know what I'm saying? So like, I know what physically difficult labor looks like, and feels like, and applying that to this white [00:22:00] collar world, um, it's a joke.
[00:22:02] Albert: Um, uh, what, what most, what I understand for most people, when I hear, Oh, this is very difficult. I realized I don't think we're playing with the same configuration. Um, and I think that's why I feel like I found some level of success because I've only been doing, I've only been in tech for two and a half years.
[00:22:23] Albert: Right. And in that two and a half years, well, if I'm putting in 80 hours, is it just two and a half years? Is that five years? Right. Right. I don't know. Right. And so, um, yeah, I think that's a hard work is really closely akin. to having a like, it depends on your tolerance for pain. And for me, I'm always practicing to increase my pain tolerance.
[00:22:48] Albert: Yeah. And then I think you asked this question, what was the
[00:22:53] Cesar: No, that's, that's a great answer about our work. And, you know, I grew up in not To the extreme, [00:23:00] but similar, um, where both mom and dad had to work, you know, they had like a, like a shoe store and it just, it gives a perspective, right? It, it, it lets you see that, hey, like, whatever you think it's hard now, like it's.
[00:23:14] Cesar: Compared to what your parents had to go through. Come on, you can do better. Right? Like, I know that's, that's what's going on in my brain.
[00:23:21] Albert: It's true. Like, I completely agree. I mean, one, it's like a, it's almost like a unit of measure. Right. It's like, would you rather do it for me? Was what I'd rather do. One box.
[00:23:31] Albert: Of bundle. Like, Picking up socks. For like an entire Saturday, right? I used to, I used to like Tom, sorry. I used to like call all my friends over, Hey, I'll get you pizza. And we'd like fold socks together in our little sweatshop garage. I mean, it was painful, right? But if that, if let's say that's one unit of work versus one unit of work here, Hey, this is create this deck and do that.
[00:23:51] Albert: I mean, just pales in comparison. And so it's. Yeah, anyway, that's, uh,
[00:23:56] Cesar: yeah, and then the other question, because, you know, you were talking [00:24:00] about committing to the mission about helping and serving people and you were given the example of the schools and how you were driven because you wanted every single student to succeed and you were committed to the mission.
[00:24:13] Cesar: But I was curious about how you get. other teammates to commit to that
[00:24:18] Albert: same level. Yeah. And, you know, it's, I think you have to one part, just, you just have to lead by example. If I'm being candid, like there's, there's only so words are talk is so cheap. You know, decks are cheap. Frameworks are cheap, all of that.
[00:24:34] Albert: It's all just generic nonsense until someone's actually, who's actually doing it. And so, yeah, and that's, I mean, that's the best way to galvanize the troops. Right. Do the damn thing. Um, and so that's the only thing I know is that like, when I, and that's the best teams I find. Why? Cause I'm not working face to face with you saying easier.
[00:24:54] Albert: How do I convince you to do this? Versus what if you saw me without [00:25:00] questioning or anything, you just see me always on. Right. And then as I look up, I look over to my right. Oh, Oh, it's easier. You're shoulder to shoulder with me. And we're headed in this direction. That I think is a better approach to work.
[00:25:13] Albert: It's not in this life. How many one on ones can you have? Right? How much work can we do together? Shoulder to shoulder towards the same mission. And I think when you're like, just relentlessly marching on, Hey, good day, bad day, you show up. Hey, whatever, whatever rain or shine, you just keep going. That I, that I find is, you know, there's, yeah.
[00:25:31] Albert: There's no real science to it. It's just show up and do it. And don't ask people to do things that you are not willing to do or have not done yourself.
[00:25:39] Cesar: How, how do you bring that into a remote environment? Oh, that, that visibility. That's a great
[00:25:46] Albert: question. Okay. So
[00:25:48] Albert: it sounds unhealthy and it is listen to here. Don't listen to learn, you know what I mean? But like, I'll give one example from my most recent gig where you're on teams, right? It's so interesting [00:26:00] how sensitive you get to certain signals. in the workplace, right? For example, how fast do you respond to your messages?
[00:26:09] Albert: Oh, does your, is your status green? Or are you weirdly yellow all the time over there? Um, are you available for one on ones? And listen, this sounds like, Hey, wow, that's like a little looking over your shoulder. It feels a little, all the things, but you get to a rhythm. You really get to a rhythm in, in, in that kind of work.
[00:26:27] Albert: So for example, I had teams in India. I know they were on two, three in the morning. And so when they see me working at three, four in the morning, they know, Hey, I'm at my fifth meeting by fricking 9am with the US team. Oh, you, Oh, you know, Oh, wait, I'm still calling Albert at 11 o'clock at night to start out some things.
[00:26:48] Albert: Cause these are like, whatever, uh, people on the East coast and they just, we work in those hours. Oh, and he responds and he like unlocks his constraint in the business right now. Awesome. Right. And if you do that [00:27:00] in a consistent enough time and you start building out those rhythms, one, dude, I will reiterate.
[00:27:06] Albert: It is unhealthy and I would not advise other people to do it. But I have found that that when I get into that rhythm, um, it is, uh, it is, it's just a pop. It becomes palpable, right? It's not just talk. It's, it's doing. Yeah,
[00:27:23] Cesar: no, I've, I've had challenges with the remote environment. Visibility, right? And the workplace expectations, you know, if your little green light on slack is, is off, you know, you get judged or, um, you know, yeah, no, it's, it's like real and, and I guess it really depends on the company and the company culture, right?
[00:27:44] Cesar: Uh, cause I've had places where they're laid back and, oh, you're green. But as soon as you're on.
[00:27:50] Albert: Okay. So I will say this. Okay. So that, I just say that more to say. Uh, there's like a, this weird tactical technical element [00:28:00] to, Oh, what, how do you get this sense of camaraderie working hard together? These weird signals that no one really cares about, but it's just like, Oh, like you're damp.
[00:28:09] Albert: You're always down. Let's go. Right. Like you clearly don't have another gig you're working on. Like we're, we can do this thing in real time. Like we're in the office. Okay. But I think the other part of like galvanizing and pushing people towards is it's like this, you go exercise, you go to the gym, right?
[00:28:27] Albert: You would likely get bored. Or not grow if you did the same weight, same rep, same intensity, same time between sets every week. Right. 10, 10, 10, 10, 10. But why do you keep going back? Hey, I went from 10 to 15 to 30 to 50 to 70 to 120, 315, 420, you know what I mean, four or five, whatever. Right. Why? Like, cause you feel like, oh shoot.
[00:28:50] Albert: I am, I am always pushing at my zone of proximal development, right? We all have that, like, healthy discomfort zone, right? Too far out, oh shoot, burnout, [00:29:00] overwhelmed, shut down, don't know what to do. Too close, eh, I do this in my sleep, not really engaged, okay, cool. Next, okay, is there a better job elsewhere?
[00:29:08] Albert: But if you get to this place of like, Oh shit. I am. I just learned something new. I got a little bit better at something I used to suck at, Oh wait, I can talk about this with authority and with confidence, right? Like I could teach someone else to do this thing now, but I actually earned that bullet point on my resume and I could, and it's not a, it's not a little honest lie.
[00:29:26] Albert: Like that thing that like that part, if you could get everyone on your team there, that's why I was, one of the things I want to mention was upscaling, right? If everyone is learning and growing. Like that, that is the healthiest culture possible. It's the healthiest culture possible, because what happens, what happens when someone is up for promotion, you need to, you need to hire someone.
[00:29:47] Albert: You have been upskilling someone and leading them to take your job. Right. And you've been shouting them out, giving them visibility to hire all this stuff. And you've been like selfish with the way that you're managing your team. Cause you're just. I'm freaking proud [00:30:00] of all the things that they've done.
[00:30:01] Albert: And so that, when you bring that level of culture to that team, Oh, it's, it's there, right? It's like, Hey, yeah, dude, you know, I named you off you all the time. Well, you know, I took no credit for all the work you did when I met with our CEO today. Hey, he actually wants to have a talk with you. He asked me about something.
[00:30:17] Albert: I told him you should talk to this guy because he's the one that actually owns it and does it that if you can get, when you get there and you start acting and behaving in a way that is actually others oriented to help them, you in a unwit, unknowingly, perhaps unconsciously, you're helping the entire team and actually yourself.
[00:30:38] Albert: Right? Cause I actually think the best kind of leadership is self forgetful. What do you mean by that?
[00:30:44] Albert: I think the I'll put it another way. I think the best leadership. The key feature in leadership is humility. Okay. And I think some people misconstrue humility to be thinking less of oneself. Let me [00:31:00] talk myself down. Let me say, Oh, I didn't really do that. And you know, you like suck at taking compliments or whatever.
[00:31:05] Albert: Okay. But that's actually, that's not humility. That's you're just like, it's kind of, it's not telling the truth. And if you actually did something, you're right, you don't need to talk yourself down. You just say it like it is, right? I actually think humility looks more like you're just not thinking about yourself as often.
[00:31:22] Albert: I like that. Right. And what are you thinking about? You're thinking about other people. Yeah. Did I do that? Yeah, I did do that. But you know, who else did that? This person did it. You know, she did something that we didn't talk about today. That person did that. Don't forget about that. Why are you talking about me right now?
[00:31:34] Albert: Okay. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. That's great. I did that. But look at what this person is doing with this direct report is doing. And that's, I mean, that, that I think is the, I'm not always there and I don't live there all the time. Um, but I, but I aspire to do so more and more each, uh, every time I leave. I love that.
[00:31:49] Albert: You know, if
[00:31:50] Cesar: we could do that more inside organizations and, you know, instead of being about you being about your teammates and like helping them get noticed, [00:32:00] man, the workplace will be much, much different.
[00:32:03] Albert: Yes. And this is actually something I learned when I was teaching, right, is that children are great at reading your bullshit.
[00:32:11] Albert: Oh, my God. Yes. Oh, they're the best. And they're even better because they just tell you like, Hey, looks like you didn't prepare today. Looks like whatever, like, they'll just, they see it. They see not what you say, but what you do. And guess what? We're all children in some ways, right? We don't outgrow that. We all sense it in some ways, right?
[00:32:31] Albert: And so it's, it's funny. I bet money, despite people not being in the calls with those higher ups, the executive leadership, why is it that we get a sense? Of what's being said when we're not even in calls. We're not a part of
[00:32:46] Cesar: right happens. I don't know. It happens
[00:32:47] Albert: all the time, though. I know because because there's it just it emanates right?
[00:32:51] Albert: You can't. It's like a it's like a aroma, right? Well, if I'm cook, if I'm cooking. Right. If you, before you even [00:33:00] step into my house, if I just cook for a few hours, you know, what the hell I'm cooking, you know, what's behind that door. I can't hide that. I can't hide that scent. Right. And I think it's the same way, even behind closed doors, like that leadership, the way that you command yourself and, and, um, yeah, just share what, whatever you're, you're doing, it emanates beyond those walls.
[00:33:19] Albert: And I think, and that's why I think it's so important to have that level of integrity, whether you're, Um, Visibly in front of the people you want to impress, or you're just, Hey, you know what, this is just the way that I operate all the time. I think that level of integrity is, is rare and I'm not always there, but it's, it's such an important ingredient to, to great leadership.
[00:33:41] Albert: Yeah, no, that's so
[00:33:42] Cesar: important. And, you know, with 2023, it's been an interesting year, lots of changes happening, disruption of AI, um, you know, the economy, and we mentioned upskilling learning and upskilling. I wanted to ask you like. How can we keep [00:34:00] up with all the changes, right? Like to be constantly learning and upskilling and what does learning mean?
[00:34:05] Cesar: Like, does it mean taking a certification and getting that diploma and, and, you know, Oh, I learned this because I have this certificate or how do you define learning and upskilling?
[00:34:17] Albert: Yeah, Cesar, I think learning is a disposition. Right. It's a mindset. It's a disposition. I mean, it's not a title. It's not a phase of life.
[00:34:31] Albert: We've been in classrooms and we're supposed to be learners. Students, learners, we've all been in those classes that were nonsense. We rolled our eyes, fell asleep, eyes glazed over the homework, whatever, right? But you're the learner. Wait, you were officially, there was a book in your face. You were doing the homework.
[00:34:47] Albert: You were totally disengaged. Your mindset wasn't there. And then there are those times, or maybe it's a season in life. Maybe it's a, maybe it's a particular subject where your eyes lit up. And you were engaged, you, you had a point of view on something and you were just in [00:35:00] it. And whether it was assigned or not, you went home and Googled it, you YouTubed it, what have you, right?
[00:35:06] Albert: And I think that is the approach. I think that's, um, you need to find out where you like, like the things that you like to learn and where you kind of thrive in. Right. And I think that's a super important. So I think it's a generally a mindset. And I think that the topic of study. can be helpful. And if you don't find yourself having that learner disposition, maybe you're, you're not studying or, or focused on the right thing, right?
[00:35:31] Albert: So there's generally that, um, I think, um, and so I think with that mindset kind of having this, I think part of learning is having a sober judgment, sober self judgment. Right. So, for example, I'll just, I'll just admit a weakness of mine, a weakness of mine is PNL fluency. Have I own PNL? Absolutely. Have I worked through a budgeting and revenue forecast, all the things I have for [00:36:00] multiple verticals?
[00:36:00] Albert: Sure. Like. I've done all of that presented to the board on these things. Yes. Right. But do I know that it's a gap in my game personally? Yeah, I think so. I can build more, be a little bit more fluent, go from the intermediate to maybe advance to like, you know, kind of native language kind of speak. And so like one way, you know, I'm going to enroll in a community college class online to take, uh, principles of accounting.
[00:36:24] Albert: Why? I like, I like that framework. I'm going to see if it works. Thanks. Other ways short is I know everyone can say, well, could you take a gumroad class? Could you get all these assets from, yeah, no problem. The motor medium is it doesn't, it almost doesn't matter as creative as you want. Go pick someone's brain.
[00:36:43] Albert: Go, go get a coffee chat with a CFO, find your finance friend and do all, all of that is the, the mode in which you do it is so not important, but like, if you want, if you have a sober assessment of yourself. You find out what your gap is and it's just [00:37:00] bridge the gap, find out the way, whatever works best for you.
[00:37:03] Albert: Um, and what I found is, and again, it's kind of like the, the way you do anything is the way you do anything is the way you do everything is yeah, we'll have a relentless approach to your learning, right? Like invest in yourself, like in a, in a really significant way. I think that is, it is shocking. You know, it's, you know, it's shocking Caesar.
[00:37:20] Albert: So many people read hundreds, thousands of pages because some guy or gal with glasses in the front of the classroom told them to. Has said, Hey, I'm gonna give you a letter grade and your parents are gonna reward you or not, or whatever. And you did all this stuff. You stayed up late, all nighters to get a little letter grade.
[00:37:40] Albert: And then when it comes to your own self-improvement, so many people are like in, in, in, in that room. They spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in student debt to learn all this stuff. Right. But it's kinda like in that goodwill hunting, uh, scene, you know, it's like, Hey, you dropped 150 grand on a. You know, in a book that you could have got an, uh, an education, you could have gotten a dollar 50 and late charge at the local library.
[00:37:58] Albert: Right. It's like, dude, like,[00:38:00] why is it, why is it so hard for us to learn when we don't have financial skin in the game? And let's, let's be honest, if that is your personality type where it's like, bro, I need financial skin in the game. Okay. Then pay a hundred bucks an hour to an executive coach and do whatever.
[00:38:16] Albert: Cause listen, some people can go to the gym and just go hard in the paint without a trainer. Pay nothing, 10 Planet Fitness, go to the park, free calisthenics. But other people need to pay for a personal trainer. I used to be one. It actually matters, right, in the way you do it. Figure it out for yourself, but whatever you do, just do it, right?
[00:38:35] Albert: You just got to get out there and, and, uh, relentlessly learn. Yeah, you gotta, you gotta
[00:38:38] Cesar: use what you have, right? If it's money and you don't like losing money because you're paying a coach, right? And that's going to drive you to that, right? Or if it's like, hey, you know, my parents grew up poor and I want the opposite of that for me.
[00:38:53] Cesar: We use that, right? Whatever it is that can drive you. Yes. And, um, keep you on that path of [00:39:00] continuous growing and learning. I think you start, there's, there's not one thing that
[00:39:05] Albert: you're going to use. Yes. But generally just knowing what this is, this is for myself is skin in the game matters. Right? Like you can have skin in the game.
[00:39:15] Albert: It doesn't always have to be monetary. It can be telling your group of friends, Hey guys, I'm going to take this course. Right. Check it on me. In a month, right? Post it on post about on LinkedIn have a little bit of social accountability, whatever. I don't care what it is, but I personally what I found is skin in the game is it's it's hard to replace that.
[00:39:36] Cesar: Yeah, no, you can have some, uh, some stakes in the game. Yes. One, one aspect I wanted to cover, um, cause you know, time is always against you. Um, but I want to make sure we, we covered this, um, throughout your career, right? Uh, Has there been a moment where you felt like
[00:39:47] Cesar: It was hard, right? And you feel like, hey, you know, you either failed or you, you, you, you were almost at that point of like, why am I doing this? Um, you know, do you have a favorite failure of yours that, that taught you [00:40:00] a very important lesson? Um, yeah, I want to, I want to, to touch on that because I think.
[00:40:04] Cesar: Learning from success is awesome, but I think learning from from failures is an even bigger, um, and more rewarding lesson, right? So I wanted to ask you if you had any moment in your career or in your personal life where a failure taught you a very valuable lesson.
[00:40:20] Albert: One more than I can count, right? When you said that thing, like a hundred of them just flash before my eyes, varying degrees of embarrassment and intensity, all the things.
[00:40:34] Albert: So, but that like, like you offer, that's part of the learning process. That's why you have to have a relentless mindset. Um, and have a long view of your career, otherwise, if you didn't, I think failures can shrink some people. And I think, but I also, you know, it's like, it's like, um, what is it? The heat that, uh, that melts wax is the same heat that bakes clay.
[00:40:58] Albert: Right. It's like [00:41:00] failure can harden you or it can soften you, right? Like, and I prefer to think that failure makes me stronger in that sense. Um, I think one significant failure, um, was when I was in the nonprofit sector. And. This is where integrity is very important. Um, I learned that, uh, senior leadership wanted to commit.
[00:41:26] Albert: They wanted to exercise a lack of integrity, and I'll just leave it there. And I was very adamant about about my approach. I was very firm in my stance. saying no, like won't do it. And I think at the time my, my skill set, the tools that I had in my toolkit, were too nascent. It was too raw. It was not refined.
[00:41:56] Albert: How do you raise the temperature? How do you think of a creative solution? How do you [00:42:00] build consensus? How do you, how do you negotiate? How do you figure these things out? In my, at the time, I think my world was black and white, this bad. And whoever thinks this way, also bad and all the things don't get me wrong.
[00:42:14] Albert: When it comes to issues of integrity, I actually still think it's a hill to die on. Okay. Because you only practice, you only get good at what you practice. Right. So if you practice, even like small levels of, of let's say, not being true to your morals or what is right, all these principles or legal, let's just be more objective.
[00:42:39] Albert: If you're like the law, you practice unlawfulness, like you're only going to get better at it. So I'd actually argue like, Don't let that even be a, uh, don't let it become a gray area when it comes to those things. And, um, and so don't get me wrong. I still think that there's, there's that, but yeah, how do you, how do you win people over?
[00:42:58] Albert: Right. Um, and when I look back in [00:43:00] hindsight, like the, the upside versus the risk reward, it was so easy to persuade. If I had my, if I had better persuasion skills of persuasion, like I, I felt like I could have kept the org on track, raising the temperature with the leaders while setting a good example and all the things.
[00:43:20] Albert: So that's one thing. And I, and I think it just makes, and I think this is one thing when you're especially a new leader is how important soft skills are. It is of paramount importance. It's almost, it's, it's easy to speak about in theory, strategy, negotiation, persuasion, all this stuff, building consensus.
[00:43:43] Albert: It's easy to say, but it is, it is supremely difficult to do. And what I learned the higher up you go, the further in you go, the more adept people are at that. And you gotta be able to, um, you have to equip yourself with those. Um,
[00:43:56] Albert: and then I'd say a more recent one was, um, well, actually. I'll leave it at that. That's, that's probably one of my, my most hallmark failures of my career.
[00:43:56] Cesar: So the, the, the failure was that you were not ready [00:44:00] to face that particular situation, you know, with the limited, uh, soft skills and toolkit that you had available at that
[00:44:06] Albert: time.
[00:44:07] Cesar: Yeah. I mean, sometimes we get put in situations where. Right. You don't have the toolkit, you don't have the, I guess, a skill set, but you have to try to figure it out. Yes. Uh, and one of the things I was thinking about was that, you know, there's a lot of people out there that, and I've been in this situation myself before, is, you know, when the organization does something that goes against your values.
[00:44:30] Cesar: Like what do you do? Do you suck it up? Do you speak up? I bet that a lot of people suck it up, especially in this very volatile environment, right? Because they don't want to lose their jobs. They don't want to repercussion. Right. But like, what's, what's the, I guess, what's the balance there when the organization goes against your values?
[00:44:48] Cesar: Like, do you just suck it up or like, yeah, what do you
[00:44:50] Albert: do? Man, that's such a great question. I will say you have to, one, I think people have their own set of [00:45:00] values, morals. But that has a little bit of an asterisk. I will share mine. I think there are tiers of offenses, but there's, I think, tier one, the majors, like ethical, legal, humane, all those things, like, that's.
[00:45:18] Albert: Sacred. That is, that is a, that is what I, that's a hill to die on. Right? I, I actually, you know, when I learned this lesson was a mentor of mine, one of the Berkeley mentors. Her name was Lynn, uh, Lindley. And, um, I remember I told her about a struggle I had in class. Here's my tutor. And about how I wanted to cheat on this test, but I didn't, but I didn't write and, but I told her about my struggle.
[00:45:43] Albert: I was like, Oh, it was so tempting. And I decided not to. And she said, she, she reasserted this point that she said, Albert, I would rather you fail with integrity and a, by compromising your morals. That is, that is never left me. Wow. And I think you have to operate in that. [00:46:00] You have to approach some of these issues.
[00:46:03] Albert: And I bring that up from, that was a high school lesson. I bring up that lesson from when I was a child. Because I think some, some values. If you cannot, if you cannot convince a child that this is. About your decision here, then you're probably making the wrong decision. Yeah, you have to make, you have to make all these justifications to be all long winded about it, dude.
[00:46:26] Albert: You're like, you have to ask yourself and, and here's, this is so interesting. Like we end up, sometimes we. Listen to the temptation to kind of compromise. It's so bad. It's so tricky. And I, I certainly figured I've certainly messed up many times when you go, when do you not that? And like you said, self preservation or what?
[00:46:47] Albert: Oh, it is remarkable. It's remarkable. And I don't want to understate it. It's so difficult. It is. Um, but here's, here's what I'll, here's what I'll lean on is often when these [00:47:00] things come up, people reach out to people, people reach out to their personal board of advisors, whether you have a formal one or not, it's like the mentor thing, right?
[00:47:08] Albert: Is your mentor or whatever. So yeah, talk to your friends, right? You're going to talk to your friends, people who may have been there, done that or what have you, and that's where, well, do you have a board of advisors who've been there, done that? Right. Because people are going to tell you things that are gonna be hard to hear.
[00:47:25] Albert: Yeah. Like you have someone who's going to say, Hey, I have an uncompromising view of morality. And someone might say, guess what? It was good that you got the job. It might be good that you left the job. Yeah. At some point. Yeah. Like, like how, how long can you be, listen, it's Not everything is forever. Right.
[00:47:46] Albert: And when you look and just at the end of it, like what's a, what's a metric that I like to use is would you want your child, like what decision would you make if your child is in that meeting or in the company? Yeah. And I mean that, that to me, and that was [00:48:00] actually the metric we use at school. Would you want your own, would you send your own child to your school?
[00:48:05] Cesar: That's a, that's a, that will make you think that's a big one. You
[00:48:08] Albert: know, what's crazy is there. I know some people who've done some morally decrepit things, even with their children at the company. Okay. But like, it's not, that's not a, it's not a foolproof way of seeing the world. Um, but that's, that's one that, that works.
[00:48:22] Albert: That's been helpful to me.
[00:48:24] Cesar: Yeah. I mean, at least for us parents and dads, you know, kids are the ultimate measuring stick.
[00:48:29] Cesar: Awesome, Albert. Well, I want to carve time to do what I call a rapid fire round, uh, where I basically ask your question and you give me your tough of mind, 30, 40 second answer. Uh, I know, or it's, these are easy questions, you know, but it's a fun way to, to wrap up the episode. Uh, the first question. I have is one book that has influenced your life, the
[00:48:54] Albert: Bible.
[00:48:55] Albert: Tell me more. Well, it's kind of like at the start of the interview, I mean, what [00:49:00] was, what made me go from almost like this knuckle dragging animal who thought, you know, with just, Punishment avoidance and, you know, trying to get a reward to something where, you know, I, I saw life at a, at a higher level. Um, and I
[00:49:17] Cesar: know this is rapid fire, but I'm curious at what point was the Bible introduced.
[00:49:21] Cesar: Your
[00:49:22] Albert: life. Very young age. Very young age. Um, like all throughout. But the coin didn't drop until I saw myself in the mirror. Mm.
[00:49:28] Cesar: Yeah. The Bible. I, I grew up with the Bible as well, and my, my parents were always like reading. Yeah. Um, yeah. You know, it's best book ever. Right. Like all the lessons in there. Yeah.
[00:49:37] Cesar: Um, Awesome. Well, next question. One of the most worthwhile investments that you have made recently, you know, and this could be, uh, financial, it could be a physical tool or a relationship.
[00:49:51] Albert: Um, I'll say three things. My wife coaching slash counseling and my fitness.
[00:49:58] Cesar: I love those. [00:50:00] Those are great investments to make, uh, especially number one, the wife.
[00:50:03] Albert: Uh,
[00:50:03] Cesar: all right. Next, next, next question. Is there a life model that you live by or perhaps a quote that you reflect on often?
[00:50:12] Albert: Um, one is, uh, live double portions. What does that mean to you? Yeah, when, uh, maybe 2009, um, my best friend was shot and killed just before graduation from Cal. And, um, a couple months later I went to this global leadership retreat and, uh, one of the leaders there when I was sharing with him, you know, about what had happened, he said this means that now you're meant to live double portions.
[00:50:41] Albert: Like one for him and one for me.
[00:50:44] Cesar: I'm sorry to hear about that, my friend.
[00:50:46] Albert: It's okay. Thank you. And
[00:50:48] Cesar: that's, that's, that's powerful. I love that. All right, next, next question.
[00:50:53] Cesar: Are there, is there a habit or a specific ritual that you have implemented you know, [00:51:00] within the last year that you felt like significantly contributed to your mental and physical health?
[00:51:07] Albert: Yeah, you know, I will say this. When you're in your mid thirties, man, start to, you start to feel that man. Um, and it's, it's real.
[00:51:15] Albert: Yeah. As a parent in the city doing a startup thing. I mean, it's just like, it really wears on you. And, um, I think this actually one relatively recently is, um, uh, yeah, just going out and running and doing calisthenics, um, like this morning. Do a couple hundred push ups, do a hundred pull ups, go for a run and go to work.
[00:51:38] Albert: Um, and then I think another, another one has been, um, my friend Steve said this, and this is our little, we have a little mastermind group we are a part of, and every week we share out our threes. So three things that we're working on or our goals for that week, just personally slash professionally. And that has kept me, given me that level of social accountability and give me direction for each week.[00:52:00]
[00:52:00] Cesar: Yeah, that's very powerful to have a mastermind group or a group where you share, right, what you're working on. Yes. We talked about accountability earlier on, uh, and what you mentioned too. It's funny because my concept of working out has shifted over the years. Before I thought it was like lifting heavy.
[00:52:18] Cesar: Now it's like running, stretching. Calisthenics. I just want to feel like I am functional. You know,
[00:52:24] Albert: that's very true. Yeah. No more ego lifting. Yeah. It's just, it's just functional
[00:52:30] Cesar: fitness. That's it. Like, yeah. Yeah. Can I lift 20 pounds?
[00:52:34] Albert: Um,
[00:52:34] Cesar: awesome. Is, is there outside of working out, is there any hobby or a particular interest that you, uh, Practice on a regular basis.
[00:52:44] Albert: So could you elaborate?
[00:52:46] Cesar: Yeah, no, if you have a hobby, you know, outside
[00:52:49] Albert: of work. Yeah, I love fishing. So that's a personal hobby of mine. Um, and yeah, just a bit of a green thumb. [00:53:00] When was the last time you went fishing? On Saturday. Nice. Yeah. Caught like five catfish with my son. It was nice.
[00:53:09] Cesar: Oh, man. Those are the best moments.
[00:53:12] Cesar: I love that. I love that. All right, Albert. So last question I have here.
[00:53:18] Albert: Um,
[00:53:18] Cesar: you know, you have such a diverse. Background and experiences, and I wanted to close off the episode. Uh, you know, if you were talking to your younger self or other younger, uh, talent out there, what advice would you give them in terms of how to approach their career?
[00:53:37] Cesar: Um, or maybe someone that's going through a transition, right? Like, well, I know you personally are going through one. What advice would you give yourself and, you know, as it relates to, to career, to pivots and all this constant change that we're, we're always facing?
[00:53:49] Albert: Yeah, great question. Um, there's actually a few things.
[00:53:53] Albert: Um, one is I, you know, partly what I'd say to myself and to others is that you don't need to ask for [00:54:00] permission. You can just do it. And I think oftentimes it can be intimidating because we feel like other people know better, but they don't. They sure. Wisdom counts. It does. Experience counts. All of that.
[00:54:16] Albert: Don't get me wrong. But generally no one knows what they're doing. You have to look back 30 years. How many contrary things were people doing 30 years ago, 40 years ago, 10 years ago, five years ago? Right. And guess what? We're doing nonsensical things right now happening right now. In a hundred years, someone's going to think you're a genius because you decided to do something some different type of way.
[00:54:39] Albert: Right. And so I think it's just, yeah, no, no one knows what the hell they're doing. Yeah. That's for permission and just do it.
[00:54:46] Cesar: I don't know what I'm doing with this podcast, but I'm doing it.
[00:54:49] Albert: I actually, um, I, I coach people all the time because I think it's so important to learn and do and get yourself. I think crystallizes learning, like teaching someone [00:55:00] else.
[00:55:00] Albert: I nothing better. Okay. And, um, probably the most teaching, most effective teaching method I've, I've accrued over, um, like almost a decade of, of being in schools. Um, but one of the things I met up with a few of my former students who are now like, in college and all these things. And it's funny, one of them, he goes to Cal and as she was sharing what she was doing, she's like, Oh, but she was qualifying why this particular class she was taking was not at the hard one.
[00:55:33] Albert: Right. And I just thought, who the hell cares? Right. Who, like, where is it that we thought that you're at the number one public university in the country are one of the top schools in the world. And you have to qualify this incredible class, by the way, that you're taking and to say and the, and the kind of cut yourself down a bit, right?
[00:55:54] Albert: Like, yeah, why did you have to do that? And you know, it's funny. I, I just, I recall that because that's what I did when I was [00:56:00] at Cal. And do it all the time. Yeah. And you're right. And you do it all the time. Like, for example, it's like in college, it's, Oh, you might not be taking calculus. You're doing, you know, something like statistics or something.
[00:56:12] Albert: Oh, I'm not doing that one or not the height, the, the human biology, but I'm doing plant biology. Or if you're at a startup, it's like, Oh, well. I met just a series a, not a series C and, oh, but I'm a, I'm, I'm this title, but it's just, we're not making as much revenue and, oh, it's not this investor. And we just, we do that to ourselves so often and we just find ways to kind of limit ourselves and talk it down and.
[00:56:36] Albert: And convince yourself to not just go for it and think we're not ready or worthy of it and it's just, you know what, no one is and just, just go for
[00:56:45] Cesar: it. Yeah, I think it's because we're afraid to disappoint people and then their expectations down right so we use crutches like, I'm just a podcaster, I'm just a teacher.
[00:56:57] Cesar: I'm just. Getting started with my [00:57:00] startup, but I'm just, and that just, man, it cripples so many people. Oh, it's a
[00:57:03] Albert: huge word. It's a deep word. And I think this is where being self forgetful is helpful, right? Because put that on the flip side. What if you are a series D C level Ivy league grad, blah, blah, blah, right?
[00:57:20] Albert: What if, or, Oh, I got acquired IP or whatever, whatever that metric is free. What if you do get there? Do you become an arrogant asshole? Right. Yeah. And all you're thinking about is yourself. You become this narcissistic power, hungry person. Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm stereotyping. Right. But I'm just saying, but like, but that's because like, when you're so mindful of yourself in your weaknesses or your strengths, it just becomes this like navel gazing thing, right?
[00:57:45] Albert: You just get so consumed in your own hype. Yeah. And the other side, it's like, would you get so debilitated by your own lack your own gap in skills? What if you just stopped thinking about yourself? You know what I mean? What if you just [00:58:00] thought about the mission? What if you just relentlessly went after it and didn't care about, Oh my gosh, how do I appear to other people?
[00:58:07] Albert: Right. And you just did the work. Right. And then it's like, well, we've all actually seen those leaders or, oh, you seem to kind of have it all. You're approachable. You kind of don't mind the title you're you're working with like the analysts and the interns and wait but you're the series d blah blah blah right like and and so it's just it i think it's one of those um yeah and anyway that's that's what i would kind of center it all back to is being so self forgetful I love that.
[00:58:31] Cesar: And that's a great way to wrap up the episode. Um, Albert, thanks so much for joining, for sharing a bit about your journey. We got so many valuable lessons in, in this episode. Um, and, um, yeah, you know what, if people want to reach out, they, maybe they listen to this and they want to reach out, you know, what's the best way for them to, uh,
[00:58:44] Albert: to do that.
[00:58:45] Albert: Uh, yeah, just LinkedIn, Albert dash S dash chun. And
[00:58:50] Cesar: awesome. Well, thanks so much, Albert. I appreciate you. And yeah, looking forward to catching up in a future episode. For sure. Thanks.
[00:58:57] Cesar: [00:59:00] all right. I hope you enjoyed this episode and thank you so much for listening all the way through. I appreciate you. And I hope that you get some valuable information that you can apply to our personal and professional life. If this story resonated with you and you would like to support the podcast.
[00:59:22] Cesar: Please make sure to subscribe. So you don't miss out on any future episodes. Thank you so much for the opportunity. I appreciate you. And I look forward to serving you in the next episode.