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Dan Hope and Andy Anders of Eleven Warriors bring you inside the Ohio State beat every Wednesday with a podcast covering everything you need to know about the Buckeyes.
Note: This transcript was AI-generated and has not been edited for errors.
[Dan Hope]
Welcome into Real Pod Wednesdays. I'm Dan Hope joined by Andy Anders as Ohio State gears up for its second big game of the season as it travels to Penn State this week for a number four versus number three matchup in Happy Valley. We've got a lot of good stuff to come on today's show.
We're going to be breaking down every angle of that matchup. We also have a special guest picker joining us for the end of a show in the spirit of Halloween. So we are excited for that, but going to start out by talking a lot of football, a lot of Buckeyes versus Nittany Lions and games don't really get much bigger than this.
Yet the vibe in Columbus right now feels more like a nervous one than an excited one. And that's because of what happened this past weekend where we thought Ohio State was going to take care of business easily against Nebraska, but instead the Buckeyes had to fight until the end, scraping by with a 21-17 victory over the Cornhuskers.
[Andy Anders]
Yeah. One score game. And looking back, I wanted to confirm this.
This was the first time Ryan Day has only won by one score against an unranked opponent. And when you consider the scope of his tenure, all the criticisms that have been levied his way about, you know, not fixing this, that, or the other, about the persistent offensive line issues the last couple of years, which had kind of been fixed until Josh Simmons's injury. We'll talk about that more later, of course.
One thing that he'd always done throughout his tenure is handle these games. And there were exceptions. You know, Northwestern a couple of years ago comes to mind, that windy day in the Windy City.
Well, not in the Windy City, but close to the Windy City there at Evanston. The thing about this game is, you know, not only was it a one-score game, it was a one-score game that very clearly was a play or two from going the opposite way. Dylan Raiola misses on a couple of open receivers where defenders slipped and really could have gone for touchdowns, and he just misses those throws, or, you know, a play here or there.
Nebraska was ahead in the fourth quarter. Ohio State had to drive down the field to take the lead at the end of the ball game, or close to the end of the ball game. Then the defense had to come out and make two more stops after that, one on Nebraska's following drive, and then another after the offense went three and out again.
So there's a lot to be concerned about coming off this game. There is something to be said for winning in the fourth quarter, and there is something to be said about how well the defense played. But when you talk about a team that lost 56-7 the previous week, and neither of us expected it to be that bad again for Nebraska, but there's a lot of, I think, much less optimism now that Ohio State is going to win this game Saturday, a game it needs to win to keep Big Ten title hopes and CFP bye hopes alive, a lot less confidence just around Columbus that they're going to go get this done on Saturday, because it's just a lot, especially on offense, that popped up as a concern this week.
[Dan Hope]
Yeah, we set it on after Carmen, but I felt worse about the way Ohio State played against Nebraska than I did the way Ohio State played against Oregon, even though Ohio State beat Nebraska and lost to Oregon, because we knew Oregon was going to be a tough game. We knew it was going to be a very tight game, and Ohio State didn't win that game, but it was very close. I mean, it had opportunities to win that game if it had executed a little bit better down the stretch.
Ohio State could have won that game in all things considered when you really step back and take a big picture look at it, like losing by one point to a team that we talked about last week, Oregon clearly being the number one team in the country. They've really entrenched themselves there now this past weekend with how they played against Illinois, for Ohio State to lose by one point to the number one team in the country on the road, it's really not a bad outcome as much as it might feel that way to people in Columbus. Like, it's really not a bad loss.
It's like those games are going to happen, but this game against Nebraska, I think what really makes it bothersome to me is, you know, every team has clunkers, like every team has games that they're supposed to blow the opponent out and they don't. And as long as you win those games at the end of the day, it's not that big of a deal. But I think what makes this one feel a little more stark than that, for one, it's what you said.
I didn't even realize that staff at Ryan day had never been in a one score game with an unranked opponent. Like we've seen Ohio State comfortably take care of business in those kinds of games dating back to that 2018 loss at Purdue. So it was shocking to see Ohio State in that situation where they really had to fight for a victory in the end.
But I think what really makes it bothersome to me is the fact that you had two weeks to prepare for this game and you were coming off a loss. You would have thought this was going to be an Ohio State team that was going to be really locked in, really geared up to make a statement. And that just didn't happen.
Now we can talk about all the intangible stuff and all, you know, where they, where they prepared or, you know, where they focused, whatever that stuff, we can all speculate about any of that and make our opinions. We really don't know. Like we're not there.
I'm a building every day. We don't really know what's going through a player's mind. I think what we can say tangibly is the Ohio State offensive line is officially a problem again.
And we thought it certainly could be when they lost Josh Simmons for a year of a season ending injury. I mean, you said it in your score prediction last week, you were taking a touchdown off a board from what your prediction would have been for Ohio State because you thought that, you know, there would be some growing pains there with Zen Mahalsky stepping in at left tackle, but you didn't take three or four touchdowns off the board, which is really what it ultimately became of Ohio State scoring 21 points.
And I mean, really some of the stats even look worse than the amount of points they scored. I mean, they went one for 10 on third down. They went an entire quarter without getting a single first down that being a third quarter.
That's what allowed Nebraska to take the lead in the second half. And because they were not able to sustain drives, it just never felt like Ohio State was in control of this game. I mean, even when they were leading, it never felt that way because they just couldn't put drives together on a consistent basis.
They did have a couple of big hits through the air, which is good to see because that's something Ohio State wants more of, but you project forward to a game like this week against Penn State. Ohio State has to be able to pick up those tough yards on the ground. Ohio State has to be able to sustain drives.
It has to be able to win the field position battle because to your point, the defense played well. Like some people might look at it and go, well, this is a Nebraska team that scored only seven points against Indiana. You gave up 17.
I mean, Nebraska is only averaged 18 points per game in big 10 play. So like the number on the scoreboard isn't that impressive, but the defense had to deal of short fields pretty much the whole game because Ohio State was not putting together drive on offense. I mean, they had back to back drives that started in Ohio State territory and they didn't give up a touchdown on either one of them.
So I give a lot of credit to Ohio State's defense for going out there, winning the game in the fourth quarter, which they were not able to do against Oregon. So I give them a lot of credit for that. But the offense and particularly the offensive line, point blank, has to be better this week or Ohio State will not beat Penn State.
[Andy Anders]
Yeah. And to your point about the defense there before I do dive into some offensive line talk is this is a defense that did it without Latham Ransom. And similar to tackle on offense, safety depth wise was the biggest question mark we had on defense coming into this season.
And to see, I thought Jordan Hancock played a whale of a game, obviously had the game stealing interception, but was a good sweeper on the back end too. I mean, we know he's not afraid to stick his face in the fan in the running game, but he was able to play that role of cleaning it up when it kind of broke through the first couple lines of defense there. Collected five tackles and he was our first star of the game.
So obviously we thought a lot of how he played in this one. So I think this was the response you needed to see from the defense. Offensive line wise, Zin Mahulski, yes, had a lot of lapses in the first half, especially you expected that kind of continued into the third quarter, but he wasn't the only problem up front in this game.
I thought our, again, our film expert, Kyle Jones, does a great job of breaking this stuff down. You know, there were a couple of other positions that were real, had a lot of lapses on Saturday. I think when, like I've said before, when you have that one guy, you go from the guy, Josh Simmons, I think we would both say was probably playing the best of anyone on Ohio State's offensive line before he went down with that injury.
Maybe you could argue Seth McLaughlin. But you go from that to, you know, a not an Ohio State starting caliber backup, at least not as he played on Saturday, right? And you go, that downgrade kind of reverberates down the offensive line because Donovan isn't as certain as of the guy next to him as he was previously.
And so he's maybe got to help out more. It just, it kind of has this effect down the line. And also you can't maybe help out pass protecting other places.
Like if you were going to have a tight end chip here, maybe he's got a chip to Zen where he wouldn't have had to, to Josh, all these sorts of things, right? How they kind of compile. That said, I do think that Te'e Grishabola, there were a few very noticeable lapses on film where even missed assignments, whiffs and things, and this has happened in the past, but I think those growing pains that seemed to be a little bit out of the way for him earlier in the season re-emerged in this game.
And for me, it's a collective thing. The entire offensive line needs to elevate itself going into this game against what is a really good Penn State defensive front. I think that also Donovan Jackson at tackle is a little bit concerning for me.
I wonder how he would adjust that role, assuming he's in it. Ryan Day did say on Tuesday that Zen Mahalsky made it out more like he's questionable Saturday rather than fully confirmed out. He said they're basically evaluating his status as the week progresses here, which is surprising to me because I was down on the sideline at the end of that game and Zen Mahalsky was on a pair of crutches, putting no weight on his legs.
I mean, he was just leaning completely on the crutches. It looked like he couldn't put any weight on his lower body. Obviously had to be assisted off the field by trainers, everyone saw that.
So it would surprise me if he plays on Saturday. Day made it sound like there's a good chance, at least, because he kind of backed off saying that he will be the starter if he's healthy. He kind of said it's, again, evaluating, right?
I think the most likely option, though, is that Donovan Jackson is at left tackle for Ohio State Saturday, all things considered. And as much as we've talked about in the past, Donovan Jackson has the ability, at least at the college level, to slide outside and be a serviceable, at least serviceable, tackle. It's not where he's been practicing all year.
It's different when you would have had an offseason to prepare for that if that's a direction you needed to go as Ohio State versus having a couple of weeks, maybe he's been repping there right behind the scenes, especially after Josh Simmons' injury, just because they knew that was a contingency plan that had to be in place. But even if it's been a few weeks, it's so different, the timing of how you have to block rushers on the outside versus the interior. It's a new position with new assignments, of course.
It's different, just athletic skill set that's required. And Donovan's a good athlete, but I have reservations about, A, we saw how Zinn played. If the Donovan moving outside to tackle option wasn't a better option than that, concern about what it looks like, and again, just new position for him, how's it going to look out there?
So then you have that coupled with, Tegra's got to play better, whoever fills in at guard if you're kicking in, kicking Donovan outside, and I would expect, I mean, you'd probably think Austin Saravel, but of course it was Luke Montgomery who came into the game when Donovan kicked out after Zinn's injury. So whoever that second guard is with Tegra has to be also elevating his play. There's a lot of questions entering a game where it's not a good time to have these questions.
If this had happened in September and you had time to figure it out, it's different, but you have to shuffle the offensive line a second time in as many games if Zinn can't play, and it's just how is the chemistry working? How are all those guys fitting together? And now you're possibly playing a guard at tackle.
So just a lot to be concerned about and a real test of where Justin Fry's broom is.
[Dan Hope]
In my mind, Donovan Jackson should be an upgrade over Zinn-Maholsky at left tackle because I just think he's a more talented player. I think he's a better athlete. I think he's more powerful and he has a lot of experience that Zinn-Maholsky does not.
And so I feel like if Donovan has to go out to left tackle, I feel like that could be a good thing, at least for that position. But the fact that Ryan Day came out on Tuesday and said, at least initially said, if Zinn's able to play, would he be a starter? He initially said yes.
Then he got asked about it again and then he kind of backtracked, like maybe I shouldn't have said that outright. And maybe this is all just gamesmanship. They may know that Zinn-Maholsky can't play and they just don't want to say that right now.
But the fact that they are not committed to moving Donovan Jackson outside, the fact that when Zinn was clearly struggling against Nebraska, they didn't go to that option until they absolutely had to. All of that tells you that Ohio State is not super confident in moving Donovan Jackson to left tackle. And that might be partially about Donovan.
It might be partially about the guards because like you said, I don't think Teguashabola played particularly well against Nebraska. I think Austin Searvelt looked good in the non-conference games. I don't think he's looked as good against better competition when he's got in there.
And so if you have to move Donovan to left tackle, then you also weaken yourself at guard. And you talk about a team that's really struggling to run the ball right now, ran for just 2.1 yards per carry. Now if you take your best guard and you move him out of the interior offensive line, is that going to make things better or is it going to make things worse?
You know, I think, you know, no matter what, there's not an ideal solution here. You'd like to have a better tackle to plug in at left tackle and keep Donovan Jackson at left guard. But because you lost Josh Simmons, because you didn't go get anyone else in the transfer portal, now you're in this situation.
You know, the coaches said it on Tuesday. There's no waiver wire in college football. You have a transfer portal in the offseason, but there's no midseason transfer portal.
So you've got to work with the guys you have. And I cannot sit here objectively and say, based on what we've seen, that I have a lot of confidence in this offensive line being what it needs to be for this Ohio State team the rest of the year. Now, granted, it's just one game.
I think the hope would be that, you know, in whatever alignment you've got to go with, as guys get more experience in those roles, things will get better. There'll be more cohesiveness across the unit. But again, they had two weeks to prepare for that game, and that's what the output was.
Now you've got one week to prepare to go play in one of the most hostile environments in college football, likely with two or three guys playing new positions, because we've heard that if Donovan moves to left tackle, Tegra Shabola might end up moving from right guard to left guard, you know, giving some reinforcement there on that left side. And then you'd have Austin Sierreveld, who's played a good amount at right guard, but now making his first start at right guard after playing left guard earlier in the year. So you could really go into next week's game potentially with three guys starting in spots they have not started all year.
And this is a tough first test for a new-look offensive line, if that's what you end up having to do.
[Andy Anders]
Absolutely. I mean, again, you talk about this defensive front for Penn State with Abdul Carter, with Zane Durant, who's been an awesome defensive tackle, pass rush option for them, getting after the quarterback from the interior, and a defensive front six that knows how to create different pressures and get after the quarterback in unique ways, but as Chip Kelly pointed out on Tuesday, also can get pressure just fine rushing four guys.
And so it's going to be a test of both the run blocking and the pass blocking in this game, but I think especially can you protect Will Howard better than you did against Nebraska? Because contrary to what Will said post-game, I do think there were times in this game where he got a little sped up. Not that Will didn't play great outside that one throw into double coverage.
The last two games, really, he's been awesome, despite the overall outlook of Ohio State going down the last two games here against Oregon and Nebraska. Will Howard has been right around 80% completions in both of these games, went 13 for 16 on Saturday but had 221 yards, that's over 13 yards per attempt. Got the ball pushed downfield, and I've said it all year, I don't think this offense needs to be launching a deep ball every drive, but hitting one or two a game just to have that threat for a defense and make sure those safeties know, hey, if I come up toward the line, Jeremiah might hit a home run kind of a thing, and he did.
Carnell got really involved in the passing game, and that was something I'd been looking for for a few weeks. I'd pick Carnell, Tate, as my player to watch in the Oregon game because I thought Oregon's a good defense, they're going to try and scheme to take Jeremiah into Mecca away, and then that's going to let Tate have some opportunities. He really didn't do a whole lot in that Oregon game, but this game, 100 yards for the first time in his career, and got going down the field.
So I think the passing attack that Ohio State is presenting is still really ferocious, and I thought maybe they leaned on the run a little too much on Saturday when it clearly wasn't working, although I will also say there were times where there was one play in particular where it was 3rd and 2, and you talk about going 1 for 10 on 3rd down, right? It's execution, but it's also scheme. There's a 3rd and 2 play where Nebraska at one point only had four guys in the box, four in the box on a 3rd and 2, where Ohio State, I believe, had a tight end in the formation, and you just had such numbers.
They walked a 5th guy in pre-snap, but assuming you have some sort of checks, and we've seen Will Howard check the plays plenty of times in the line of scrimmage, there should have been some sort of communication there to check to a run, I think, as much as that wasn't working. That's a little bit of a side note, I just think they leaned on the run a little heavy in this game, a little heavier than they needed to, and that passing attack maybe is the direction to go, although you worry about protecting Will Howard, if you're not clearing out the space to run the football, and it's getting you behind the chains, then I don't think it's worth it. So a lot of things to consider schematically in terms of how do you improve that 1 for 10 on 3rd down number?
That is a number that cannot happen Saturday. You need to be moving the chains and progressing drives, even if you're not necessarily scoring at the end of them, because I do think Ohio State's defense in this matchup can keep it in the game, especially if Drew Aller isn't fully healthy or out entirely. The defense can keep you in this game, but you cannot keep putting them in these types of short fields like you did against Nebraska.
I think Penn State will make them pay for that, unlike Nebraska was able to in certain settings, you have to be able to at least flip the field, pick up a few first downs before you punt the football, if that's the route it's going to take. And maybe they do get the running game going again, and you don't need to lean heavy on the passing game, but if that's the direction the game takes you, you have to be willing to go that route, I think. And I think we've also seen Chip Kelly be willing to lean on the things that are working more in the pass than I think he did in this game.
And like you said, outside of one drive in the second half, the offense never had a long sustained touchdown drive in this game. That's another thing that kind of floats in the back of your mind, is like, they hit a 60-yard touchdown pass to Jeremiah, they hit a 40-yard touchdown pass to Carnell Tate, the 8-place 75-yard go-ahead touchdown drive was really the only sustained scoring drive that they had. So all these things, or at least touchdown drive, all these things are kind of in the back of your mind as you're evaluating this game from an offensive perspective, and how do you improve on that third down number because it's going to be critical in Happy Valley.
[Dan Hope]
You mentioned how good Will Howard has been in the last two games. He's actually had a completion percentage of 80% or better in four of the last five games, and so Will Howard is really playing at an elite level for Ohio State right now. I don't know if that's really been talked about enough just because of some of the issues that have popped up elsewhere for Ohio State in the last couple of games, but his completion percentage for the season of 74% would be the best in Ohio State history.
His quarterback rating of 183.9 would be the second best in Ohio State history, behind only C.J. Stroud's first season as Ohio State's starting quarterback. And so what Will Howard is doing in the passing game has really been impressive. Obviously the big question going into this game for Ohio State in the passing game is going to be the pass protection and whether Ohio State can consistently keep pressure off of him.
But the way that he's playing and what we've seen from these receivers, especially with Carnell Tate having the game that he had against Nebraska, I do think that the passing offense is likely to be Ohio State's best path to success offensively in this game, though the running game certainly needs to be better than it was against Nebraska and really even against Oregon. You know, Ohio State in those short yardage situations has to be able to pick up those tough yards on the ground, and we'll see if the Buckeyes are able to do that. Flipping back over to the other side of the ball, it's going to be an interesting equation there with the quarterbacks between Drew Aller and Bo Pribula.
And there's a part of me that honestly thinks that it might be a tougher matchup for Ohio State if they have to face Bo Pribula than Drew Aller, because while Drew Aller is the better passer between the two of them, Bo Pribula is the better runner. And one thing we've seen Ohio State struggle with in these last couple of games is allowing quarterbacks to step up through the pocket and take off and make plays at their legs. And that's something that Bo Pribula is really good at, and I thought he played really well in that game against Wisconsin.
And so it's something Ohio State's going to have to prepare for either way, because Penn State has shown that even when Drew Aller is fully healthy, that they will bring Bo Pribula in as kind of that changeup to give them a running threat from a quarterback position. But, you know, not knowing who that quarterback is going to be this week makes it even more of a challenging preparation for the Ohio State defense.
[Andy Anders]
Absolutely. And we talked earlier about Dylan Raiola and how he was able to step up in the pocket and scramble up the middle at times and how that's been an issue with it. It all comes down to that rush lane discipline, right?
And I think Ohio State, what happened last week is you have a situation where you want to get after the quarterback because of all the criticism that was levied at the defense off that Oregon game. No sacks of Dylan Gabriel. Really he had a lot of time to throw on certain key passes.
And the emphasis of getting after the quarterback probably preaches aggression to the defensive lineman and trying to pin your ears back. And the reason that's a saying, I think that saying gets thrown out a lot when you're talking about pass rush and third and long, pin your ears back. Everyone's heard that if you've watched enough football games.
The reason that gets said is because normally you have assignment football on pass plays. The defensive tackles have to stay in a specific lane where they have a specific target on the quarterback to prevent him from taking off and running as Dylan Raiola and others have done against the Ohio State defense. And I think you circle back to what Jim Knowles was saying in his press conference.
I think it's a symptom of leaning a little hard on that aggression and wanting to get after the quarterback, which Ohio State did very successfully in the Nebraska game. Part of the reason they had a lot of success or a lot of improvement on the defensive end, I think now you kind of balance that. And if it's Bo Pribula, especially, I think it needs to be the focus is more on containment than actually getting after the quarterback, at least on the interior.
You play a little more straight up and collapse the pocket, right? A little more of a bull rush to kind of constrict the space that he has and allow the ends to be the one to generate the pressure or sending it up from a blitz. That's, I think, the tactic you adjust because Bo isn't, like you said, the same passing threat as Drew Aller is.
That is how I could see the tactics shifting for Ohio State when Bo Pribula is in the game. But again, the pass rush, the biggest trend from the Oregon game to the Nebraska game in terms of a positive trend for Ohio State was how this pass rush mixed its fronts, three man, five man fronts. We'd been calling for that.
We'd been calling for stunts on the D-line. They did that. Calling for more creative pressures, like you, again, said this before, you don't have to send more than four to get pressure on the quarterback and do a creative blitz package.
You can send, you know, Ohio State did this where you show a blitz in one area, then you send two from another and you drop a defensive lineman into coverage and you're only rushing four. But because of the different looks you show the offensive line pre-snap and where the rush is coming from post-snap, guys end up blocking air and you get pressure that way. That's how you can only send four and still get home and be creative about it.
Ohio State just wasn't doing that enough against Oregon. They did it against Nebraska and I think it's a big reason why they got the pressure they got. Look, JT Chui-Molawau and Jack Sillier are great players and I think they've played really good on a lot of stretches this season.
They've both had games where maybe they disappeared a little bit, but to me, I thought the issues were more schematic in terms of why Ohio State wasn't pressuring the quarterback, Oregon was keeping extra blockers in to deal with Jack and JT on some plays. And so seeing all those different looks mixed in, huge positive sign for the Ohio State defense and I think that's the number one thing that if you're a fan of the team, you can sit back and say, okay, well they did get better in this area going into what is now the most important game of the season.
[Dan Hope]
If you're looking for players to potentially step up in this game, I think certainly one of the first guys you look at is JT Chui-Molawau because you think about what he's done specifically when playing Penn State, particularly that game the last time Ohio State went to Happy Valley. I mean, he just had an unbelievable game against Penn State in 2022. He had six total tackles, three tackles for loss, two sacks, two interceptions, and he also had a forced fumble and then he also had a tip that also led to another interception.
And so JT Chui-Molawau, I mean, you're talking about best games by a defensive player in Ohio State history, JT Chui-Molawau had one of those games against Penn State in 2022. And it's almost kind of been a cloud over JT Chui-Molawau for the rest of his career because it's kind of been the expectation that like he should play like that every week and nobody's going to play like that every week. But he did play really well again last year against Penn State.
And I think these are the kind of games he's tended to thrive in. And I know from talking to people on the Penn State side of things, you know, we're looking at it from the Ohio State perspective, and I think we certainly feel like the biggest mismatch that could work against Ohio State in this game could be Ohio State's offensive tackles, particularly at left tackle against Penn State's pass rushers. But I think Penn State's got concerns about that as well, because their starting right tackle, Anthony Donko, he suffered an injury last week.
Nolan Rucci, who's a former five-star recruit, went to Wisconsin, transferred to Penn State, but hasn't really played consistently at either place. He stepped in there at right tackle for Anthony Donko, but I think that defensive end versus offensive tackle matchup could potentially be an advantage for both teams in this game. And so you definitely want to see Ohio State's pass rush continue to make waves in this game.
Ohio State cannot afford another game like they had at Oregon, where they didn't get a single sack and they allowed Dillian Gabriel way too much time in the pocket. To your point, they have to stay disciplined, especially if Bo Perugial is the quarterback. They have to stay disciplined.
There may be times where they don't go quite as aggressive on the pass rush side of things as they did against Nebraska, because they need to make sure they don't give up those rush lanes. And, you know, this is a Penn State team that, you know, is really good at running the football. But you talk about best running back tandems in the country.
We've talked about Ohio State having that with Travion Henderson and Quenshawn Judkins. But Penn State certainly has a case for that as well with Nick Singleton and Katron Allen. And so Ohio State's run defense needs to be strong in this game.
And then I think the guy I really circle on Penn State's offense as a big threat that Ohio State needs to contain in this game is Tyler Warren, who may be the best tight end in the country. He already has 47 catches for 559 yards and four touchdowns already this year. Really, I think the only other comparable tight end that Ohio State has faced this year would be Terrence Ferguson at Oregon.
And this is somebody who can really stretch the field, you know, over the middle of the field, be that weapon in the middle. And it'll be interesting to see what Ohio State's plan is for defending him, because Ohio State's coaches did express optimism on Tuesday that Leif and Ransom will be able to come back this week. He typically mans that strong safety spot, but you mentioned it earlier, Jordan Hancock played really well at that safety position against Nebraska.
And so if Leif and Ransom's healthy, will he be the primary guy covering Tyler Warren? Could it be Jordan Hancock, whether he's playing at safety or nickel? You know, how involved will the linebackers need to be in that?
I think that's going to be a big key for Ohio State's defense in this game is keeping Tyler Warren in check.
[Andy Anders]
I agree, and this is a guy we've seen can take over games. I mean, that performance he had at USC, 17 receptions for 224 yards and a touchdown, tied for the most receptions in a game ever in the NCAA history, pretty nuts, and the second most receiving yards regardless of position in a game in Penn State school history, only exceeded by Jahan Dotson in a performance back in 2021. So he is capable of doing that sort of thing, and he's had his second 100-yard performance on the year.
What I think the difference here is Oregon had weapons all over the field. They had three great receivers and a really good tight end in Terrence Ferguson. I think if you're Ohio State's defense, you say, okay, someone else is beating us in the passing game.
You scheme it up to take Tyler Warren away. If you've got to bracket him, so be it. Have a linebacker and a safety on him if you need to.
Someone else is beating you on the outside because Penn State doesn't have a receiver who averages more than 50 yards per game. They don't have those weapons on the outside like Ohio State does, and I think it's one of the weaknesses of their offense that you can exploit is maybe, hey, you're comfortable leaving, maybe your corner's on a little more of an island against these receivers, and whether that's doing that to keep more focus on Warren or maybe sending more pressure after Aller or Pribula, that's an advantage, I think, that plays to Ohio State's defensive favor.
Of course, you've got to keep the focus on the running game, too. The linebackers have to be wary of Katron Allen and Nicholas Singleton, as you mentioned. Those are both guys that, you know, they bring some really good things, complimentary to each other, and that part of the offense, the rushing attack, is I think an area that Penn State overall has improved from last year.
And they're overall more creative, too, able to kind of change up the looks and show you different things, with Andy Kotelnicki doing the things that he's done as offensive coordinator. So that to me is, it's got to be the game plan for Ohio State to take away Tyler Warren in the passing game and just force someone else to beat you through the air while also keeping those two running backs bottled up.
[Dan Hope]
If you go into this game and say, we're going to force Penn State to beat us by throwing to their wide receivers, I think that is a good game plan. And people may not think so because of what happened against Oregon. You know, seeing, you know, the struggles that Denzel Burke and some of the other corners had in that game may not make people want to see a game where Penn State airs the ball out to the outside a lot.
But I do think that Ohio State should go into that game plan of, we're going to force you to beat us with the outside passing game because Tyler Warren is their best receiving threat. Their running game is their most reliable offense, especially if Bo Pribula ends up playing at least part of his game at quarterback. And so I do think Denzel Burke and Davison Igbenosin and Jordan Hancock should have the advantage over Harrison Wallace and Liam Clifford and Julian Fleming.
They should. That's not to say that those guys can't make plays. I think Harrison Wallace is a pretty good player.
Julian Fleming is obviously a guy that Ohio State fans are familiar with. You know, still kind of like at Ohio State has not really found his stride there, but he is a guy that, you know, has the ability to make some plays. So, you know, you certainly can't ignore those guys on the outside.
But I do agree with you that I think Ohio State's DBs are good enough that you should be able to win those one-on-one matchups on the outside and be able to focus more on taking the middle of a field away. And I would think, you know, that's going to be a part of Ohio State's defensive game plan for sure. If we kind of just zoom out and look at the big picture storylines of this matchup, certainly one of the big ones is Ryan Day versus James Franklin.
And really, both of these guys are entering this game with kind of the same narrative about them. And that's the question of, do they get the job done in big games? But if you look specifically in this head-to-head matchup, Ryan Day has owned that matchup.
Ryan Day is 5-0 as a head coach versus Penn State. James Franklin is just 1-9 as a head coach against Ohio State. And so Ryan Day has typically gotten the best of James Franklin in this matchup.
James Franklin is also just 1-8 against top five teams. And so typically, James Franklin's teams have not done well in these kind of games. Yet, I think there's still plenty of pressure on Ryan Day to perform here because of what happened at Oregon.
That narrative continues to surface around Ryan Day, that he needs to win more big games. And certainly, if he doesn't get the job done in this one, those voices are only going to grow louder.
[Andy Anders]
James Franklin has the big-game James reputation. You've got Ryan Day coming in with that. It's been touted about his record against top five opponents and how he's failed to win several games of consequence, obviously, at Ohio State.
Hasn't achieved those Big Ten title, national title, even beating Michigan goals the last three years. And so these are two coaches with bad big-game reputations going at it on Saturday. James Franklin has some narratives to rewrite about himself in that regard.
Not just the 1-8 against top five opponents, 3-17 against top ten opponents in James Franklin's tenure at Penn State. So Penn State has consistently been in that kind of B tier of Big Ten teams, where they're the next wave after the teams that are actually at the top of the conference. That's kind of where they've been stuck to since, really, 2016 when they won the Big Ten title of that 10-2, they'll have a really good season, but they can't beat the big boys.
And so this is a chance for, if you're James Franklin, you knock off Ohio State at home, all of a sudden, there's a good chance you just roll through to a Big Ten championship game in that instance. And then you have your shot to beat Oregon, and you'll certainly be a playoff team at the very least in that regard. I think if you're Ohio State, you lose, you're out of the Big Ten title race.
I mean, there's some craziness that can happen, I guess, to get you there with two losses in conference play, but it's very, very likely not happening. If you lose this game, Penn State itself would have to lose twice, and then there'd have to be a multi-team tiebreaker with some different factors, and there's just a lot that would have to go right for Ohio State to get to the Big Ten title game with two losses. So this is a really big game, and I don't think, if Ryan Day does ultimately go on the road with the shuffles that have happened on the offensive line, as bad as things looked against Nebraska, he should get a lot of credit for bringing Ohio State to a win in this game.
Because I think there is going to be some underselling that happens if Ohio State goes out and wins Saturday. From certain voices around the team, from certain fans, it's like, oh, it's James Franklin, oh, they've beaten Penn State in the past, it's like, well, this is a top five game. You complain about him not winning games that consequence top five games, this is a game they need to get to the Big Ten title game.
I think there should be equal praise as there would be ridicule if Day goes out and gets this done, and Ohio State goes out and gets this done on Saturday. Not that it accomplishes anything, ultimately, in terms of the Big Ten title, because you've still got to go beat Indiana, beat Michigan, then make that game, but this is one of the big games that's been said that Day supposedly can't win.
[Dan Hope]
And I do think this Penn State team is better than most of the ones that they've played in recent years, that Ryan Day has beaten now. I say I think, not that I know, because Penn State hasn't really played anybody great yet. This is by far the best team that Penn State will have faced so far this year.
They beat Illinois, USC's a team that, by the time Penn State played them, did not look as good as we thought they were going to be, at least early in the year, and Penn State needed overtime to beat that USC team. Wisconsin's had a pretty good resurgence, Penn State was trailing at halftime against Wisconsin, but finished strong, ultimately won that game 28-13. I think this Penn State team is better than a lot of the other recent Penn State teams to where I think they are a legitimate Big Ten, college football playoff contender type team, but this is also the only real test for Penn State in the regular season, because they don't play Oregon, they don't play Indiana, so they have, Penn State's schedule is set up very well.
If Penn State wins this game, they should be in the Big Ten championship game. It would be a big letdown for Penn State if Penn State wins this game and it doesn't make the Big Ten championship game. Penn State, for both these teams, it's really all in front of it here, major Big Ten championship game implications, and without a doubt, like you said, if Ohio State wins, there's going to be some of that, oh, it's just James Franklin can't win the Big One type narrative.
But, no, I mean, this is a really big game, and whichever team wins this game deserves a lot of credit afterward, and I think they will get a lot of credit when the first college football playoff rankings are released next week. Andy, who are one or two players that you would identify as the X factors that Ohio State really needs to step up to win this game?
[Andy Anders]
I mean, I don't think, the number one answer has to be Donovan Jackson, right? This is, or Zinmichalski, I guess. Again, I don't think he's actually playing on Saturday.
I think it's gamesmanship and a smokescreen from day to say that he could potentially be the guy at left tackle, but that's just what, again, I saw him on a pair of crutches with no weight on his feet. To me, that image is maybe too prevalent, I don't know. But if it's not Donovan Jackson, then it's Zinmichalski, but I'll say Donovan Jackson, you need that guy to be serviceable and keep Will Howard upright when you're facing down Abdul Carter in this Penn State defensive front.
They're going to do, they know the weakness that's there. They're going to try and attack it. They're going to try and get pressure on Will Howard.
They're going to try and get penetration and disrupt the running game and make it a null factor again for Ohio State. How do you respond on the offensive line? That's all, I'll leave it at that.
Left tackle, to me, one, two, three is the biggest position to watch for Ohio State in this game.
[Dan Hope]
What kind of play Ohio State gets at left tackle and as an extension of that, the offensive line, I think that will make the difference in whether or not Ohio State wins or loses this game. Would you agree?
[Andy Anders]
Yeah, I would say that's the number one difference is how the offensive line performs as a whole.
[Dan Hope]
Beyond that, in terms of players that I have an eye on, certainly JT Tuamolo is another one, an obvious one, I think. Another one that certainly comes to mind is Jeremiah Smith, just the things that he does and again, obvious answer, but there's a very good chance that on Saturday, Jeremiah Smith will break Ohio State's single season freshman records for receiving touchdowns, receiving yards, and receptions all in the same game. If he has a productive game, he will likely get all three of them on Saturday.
That's the kind of season he's had and these are the kind of games where you need your stars to step up and take over and we saw Marvin Harrison Jr. have really big games against Penn State the last couple of years. I think if Jeremiah Smith can do the same in this game, that certainly would go a long way toward Ohio State's chances of winning this game.
[Andy Anders]
Jeremiah Smith and Emeka, I mean you could name any of the three receivers, especially after the game Carnell just had, I think. Penn State's secondary hasn't seen a group of weapons like this, you know, and they've been good in pass defense this year, 18th in yards allowed per game, 6th in yards per passing attempt against the defense, but Ohio State can space you out in ways that no other team can in college football, or at least few others can, there might be a few arguments there, but it then comes down to protection, right, and do you give Will Howard time to work through his progressions to find that guy over the middle to hit a deep ball, it's how well the offensive line protects him, and I think I also would like to see other reporters have pointed out, and I think it's true, Ohio State got a little bit away from some of the horizontal passing game that's an extension of its running game, some of those screens, the bubbles, some RPO stuff, throwing off of run reads, those kinds of things that I do think could help open up the run game just by stretching the defense horizontally again, so I'm interested to see how the receivers get involved as weapons in that respect, you know, seeing maybe a screen pass to Jeremiah, seeing, just mixing in those kinds of things to give the defense different looks, make sure their eyes are having to check different areas of the field, because then you create mistakes that way. I think another X Factor player, a guy that could, with a big day, really elevate Ohio State in this game is Sonny Stiles, I think that matchup with him at linebacker and possibly covering Tyler Warren in space, but also using his athleticism in different areas of the field, I mean, if Penn State's gonna dress up and do all these different things to try and confuse you and then run the ball, whether Beau Prebuehler or Drew Aller is a quarterback, you have Cate Tronall and you have Nicholas Singleton, he's gotta be, if he can be a force kind of like we saw in the Iowa game, attacking the line of scrimmage, making plays in the run game, and then also be a coverage option on Tyler Warren, I think a really good game from Sonny Stiles could kind of elevate Ohio State defensively, and also, when you get home on a blitz, I think we saw the linebackers whiff on some things against Oregon in particular when they've gotten home on blitzes this year, need to see the linebackers and the defensive backs too, when they come, finish on blitzes more. I think you get home, make the tackle, make the sack, so I really think for me, I look at Sonny Stiles and maybe Cody Simon too, the linebackers as, if they play well and the defensive front rises to the location, that's when Ohio State can really smother this Penn State attack.
[Dan Hope]
Well, we've reached the point of a show where we typically do our score predictions, and we are going to do that, but we are going to welcome in a guest picker to join us for that part of the show, so let's get him on here. And we are now pleased to be joined by the Pop-Tart Bowl mascot. Is that your name, or you have a Pop-Tart Bowl mascot, Strawberry, what do you want us to call you?
[The Pop-Tarts Bowl Mascot]
I go by anything that makes anyone's dreams come true, fellas. So if that makes you happy with Pop-Tarts, you call me whatever you want.
[Dan Hope]
It is certainly an honor to have the greatest mascot in college football bowl games here on the show for us, Prince Chedward being an honorable mention here, but you have certainly taken the world by storm here since last December, the Pop-Tarts Bowl, just, I mean, what's it like for you? I mean, you're getting just a couple months away from that game. What's the preparation like of preparing to be the most beloved mascot in college football?
[The Pop-Tarts Bowl Mascot]
Well, you've got to work with the marketing directors, you've got to make sure that everyone has the right amount of s'mores, the right amount of brown sugar, the right amount of strawberry, of course, that's my personal favorite, and you've got to really get them prepared to be eaten, because that's every Pop-Tart's dream. That always will be our dream here at Pop-Tarts Corporation, or whatever the heck my corporation name is, I don't really know, because I'm just here to be a Pop-Tart and be someone's breakfast or lunch, if that's what they prefer, and be someone's just scrumptious pastry. That's just what we're here for, and we're all about making dreams come true, so whatever I can do to make someone's dreams come true, that's what the hell we're going to do, fellas.
[Andy Anders]
Don't knock Pop-Tarts for lunch and for dinner now. I've enjoyed the occasional dinnertime Pop-Tart, just can I ask you, what is the most difficult part of being a sentient pastry with arms and legs?
[The Pop-Tarts Bowl Mascot]
Well, I'd say nothing outside of how much space we take up, because we've seemed to have quadrupled in size, at least. I mean, normally we got scrunched in this little box in this tiny packaging, and then we had to adjust our body temperature to go from almost frozen to just in a toaster oven, and then just kind of take that and be prepared to be fresh and eaten, but other than that, we're just taking up a lot of space. You've seen my mascot brothers, they're all over the place, and we don't really know what the hell's going on outside of we're just here to be prepared and make someone's dreams come true.
[Dan Hope]
Yeah, the free shot here on the camera is not ideal for a Pop-Tarts mascot, because it's a little bit wide, but we're getting most of your body here in the shot. All right, for those who aren't in on the joke, this is actually our 11 Warriors recruiting analyst slash college football playoff guru, Garrick Hodge, and Garrick, what was it that compelled you to buy a Pop-Tarts Halloween costume?
[The Pop-Tarts Bowl Mascot]
Well, I was hoping to keep the jig up a little longer, but well, I wish I could say it was something more responsible than impulse buying, but I just more so saw it come across my Amazon feed, and I was like, yes, insert, put into the cart, and then I think it was also kind of the pressure of seeing how many were left available in stock, and there was, I literally got the last one in stock on Amazon, although I think that was probably more of a Bezos scare tactic than anything else, because I clicked onto it, and then like 20 minutes later, there were somehow more available in stock, so there must have been, you know, a bunch of Pop-Tarts reborn into the universe just like that, but anyway, yeah, I just saw that, I was like, this is really stupid, but YOLO, this is my mascot bowl, I'm going to pull the trigger, I think it was the first time I dressed up in Halloween for like 10 years or something like that.
[Dan Hope]
Are we going to see a Pop-Tart trick-or-treating around Columbus tomorrow?
[The Pop-Tarts Bowl Mascot]
You know, I can't confirm nor deny that, I can tell you that the Pop-Tart has made an appearance at a Halloween party, and it could make it at another one to be determined.
[Dan Hope]
All right, back into character, the thing everybody's talking about in Columbus right now, give us your expert Pop-Tart opinion, what does Ohio State need to do to fix its offensive line?
[The Pop-Tarts Bowl Mascot]
Well, I would like to tell Ryan Day that I am available to play left tackle or on the interior if needed, I can't say that I won't be eaten by the opposing team, but I do know that it is unethical to eat your opponents, and that will at least draw a 15-yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty, and possibly even an ejection if it's too graphic for the children. But the best I can do is, you know, you just got to get up and frosty with them, you know? You just got to use your gifts that your pastry maker made you, and you got to get in there and just really get frosty with it, I guess.
That's the best advice I can give to any wannabe Pop-Tart playing offensive line.
[Andy Anders]
I mean, if you can get Abdul Carter ejected, I think that'd be a big win for Ohio State. Maybe just make yourself so appetizing that he can't resist but eat you.
[Dan Hope]
We saw an Oregon player get ejected for spitting on Davis and Igbenos, and maybe now we will see a Penn State player get ejected for eating the Pop-Tart.
[The Pop-Tarts Bowl Mascot]
Well, I don't encourage spitting on Pop-Tarts, I mean, we're here to be eaten, but that's just playing with your food at that point, that's just rude.
[Andy Anders]
Before we dive into score predictions here, we got to answer, I think, the question that's at the top of everyone's mind here as Trick or Treat approaches. What is the best Halloween candy?
[The Pop-Tarts Bowl Mascot]
Well, I guess Pop-Tarts can't be classified as a candy, so I'm banned from saying that. So I would have to go something that has a strawberry filling of some sort. That just resonates really well with me.
Under those circumstances, I'd just have to go with maybe a stuffed Twizzlers, I still make those. But Twizzlers are close enough, they make the sense that it just makes you feel like home. It's really a high floor candy, if we're being real.
[Dan Hope]
I think I got to go with Reese's. That's definitely a safe high floor answer, but they're the go-to. What about you, Andy?
I love Reese's.
[Andy Anders]
I'm a huge Reese's guy. I think any other time of year it's my favorite candy, but you can't beat a Butterfinger for me at Halloween. You know, just the crunch and the different layers and just the Halloween of it all.
I feel like Butterfingers are iconic. Butterfingers are solid. You're not going to go wrong with a good Butterfinger.
[Dan Hope]
I think a Butterfinger would be better if it wasn't so hard for me. For me, I need them to be a little bit softer. They're just a little bit too crunchy and messy for me, if that makes sense.
[Andy Anders]
The crunch is perfect. Don't you knock the crunch of a good Butterfinger.
[The Pop-Tarts Bowl Mascot]
Well, better if they're toasted.
[Dan Hope]
Well, we know that you are, Pop-Tart. We know that you are always better when you've been toasted before consumption. All right, now it's time for our score predictions.
Andy, you're up first. What is your prediction for Ohio State versus Penn State?
[Andy Anders]
I've been weighing this back and forth for a while now. I think, again, it's going to come down to the offensive line. I also wonder just how complete Penn State's defense is.
Because, again, they haven't seen an offense like this yet, at least on paper, if the offensive line is serviceable in this game. I have it 28-24 Ohio State. And I think the difference in this game will be Ohio State's receiving core and how much better it is than Penn State's receiving core.
Obviously, those two units don't match up with each other. It's just where I see Ohio State having the advantage in this game. For me, I go Ohio State 28, Penn State 24.
An all-out slugfest that lives up to the billing of another top five matchup, much like Ohio State's game with Oregon did.
[Dan Hope]
I'm going to go Penn State 24, Ohio State 21. I just think the offensive line, particularly this conundrum at left tackle, and even just being there on Tuesday and hearing that the plan might be to go with the guy who struggled at left tackle last week and is now injured, just doesn't project a lot of confidence in whatever the plan is going to be for Ohio State's offensive line this week. And that just gives me concerns about how effectively Ohio State can sustain the drives it's going to need to win this game.
And so I could easily talk myself into Ohio State winning this game. I won't be surprised if Ohio State does. I still think Ohio State is the more talented team.
I think its defense, if it plays up to its ability, is certainly capable of controlling this game and leading Ohio State to victory, even if it doesn't have a great day offensively. But my gut has told me since Saturday, if you had asked me a week ago, I definitely would have picked Ohio State to win this game. But seeing the way Ohio State struggled in that Nebraska game, seeing Penn State really respond to adversity better than Ohio State as it was able to beat Wisconsin fairly convincingly in the second half without its starting quarterback, whereas Ohio State seemed to crumble, at least on the offensive line, without its starting left tackle.
That just has my gut telling me Penn State is going to win this game. I went against my gut last year with Michigan. I talked myself into picking Ohio State.
I went against my gut before the Oregon game, even though I had picked Oregon to win that game before the season, and I ended up picking Ohio State. So this time, I'm going to go with what my gut tells me, and I've got Penn State winning this game. All right, Pop-Tart, you get to break the tie.
What's your pick?
[The Pop-Tarts Bowl Mascot]
You know, I've heard a lot about the coaches in this game and their inability to win big games. Well, I say to hell with that. Neither of them have played in a big game because neither of them have played in a Pop-Tart's Bowl.
And there is no bigger game on the planet than a Pop-Tart's Bowl. So I can't quite accurately assess these rosters because I'm only looking for teams that are going to be playing in that, but I can tell you this. I can tell you that they've nicknamed him Big Game James and that he is one and nine against Ohio State.
And while the offensive line is very shaky and very not trustworthy right now, and you don't know how it's going to look, we don't know what combination they're going to roll out there. Outside of Seth McLaughlin playing center and Josh Fryer playing right tackle, who knows? But I have more faith in Ohio State in a situation like this than I do in Big Game James when, I mean, you don't know what quarterback's starting, his quarterback's a little banged up, and you've never seen the backup quarterback for four quarters.
So when push comes to shove, I cannot take James Franklin to beat Ohio State until he does it.
[Dan Hope]
And do you have a score prediction?
[The Pop-Tarts Bowl Mascot]
Oh, why, yes. We're all winners in our hearts, but I will go 31-27 Ohio State.
[Dan Hope]
There you have it, folks. The Pop-Tart is picking Ohio State to beat Penn State in a top five showdown on Saturday at Beaver Stadium, noon on Fox. All of us will be there in State College on Saturday.
We can only hope that the Pop-Tart will be in full costume to shoot some great photos for us on Saturday while Andy and I will be up in the press box. And so we are very much looking forward to that. Please stay tuned to 11warriors.com for full coverage all week of Ohio State versus Penn State. And we'll catch you next week.