Mikkipedia is an exploration in all things health, well being, fitness, food and nutrition. I sit down with scientists, doctors, professors, practitioners and people who have a wealth of experience and have a conversation that takes a deep dive into their area of expertise. I love translating science into a language that people understand, so while some of the conversations will be pretty in-depth, you will come away with some practical tips that can be instigated into your everyday life. I hope you enjoy the show!
Welcome. Hi, I'm Mikki and this is Mikkipedia where I sit down and chat to doctors, professors, athletes, practitioners and experts in their fields related to health, nutrition, fitness and wellbeing and I'm delighted that you're here.
Hey everyone, it's Mikki here, you're listening to Mikkipedia and this week on the podcast I speak to physiotherapist, coach and plant-based advocate Brad Dixon about his philosophy on wellness. Brad and I discuss his background in triathlon, his career in physiotherapy and how his family history with his father and uncle forced Brad to think beyond the medical model when it comes to health and how his thinking has evolved over the last 10 years.
to where he now coaches and practices with a broader understanding of health beyond that which he studied in physiotherapy and the mainstream model. We discussed functional strength training, navigating being a parent and a role model, Brad's philosophies on nutrition and how he's evolved his thinking in that space, and how small habits can make big differences. And if you follow Brad, you know,
this is something he advocates all of the time he's very active on social media. This is such a wide reaching conversation and there is something for everyone here and I think you're really gonna love it. Brad Dixon is a sports physiotherapist, coach, writer and wellness advocate based at EverFit Physio and Coaching. His passion is helping people strive for their potential with promotion of enhancing daily habits. Brad's interest in a whole food plant-based
lifestyle started when his uncle was diagnosed with bowel cancer and started emailing and blogging about lifestyle links to disease. This started his transition in 2014 to move along to a spectrum to a plant-based lifestyle firstly for performance and health and then looking more widely at environment. I have to say Brad is a gunner of an athlete too and we discuss his performance here like it's so motivating to see. So Brad has also written a book.
and he is a prolific writer for the Trail Runner magazine as well. And he said that he wanted to put his 100 wellness articles in one place. So his book, Holistic Human, is that place where you can find all of Brad's tips and tidbits for living a healthier life based on these small daily habits. You can connect with Brad over at www.everfit.co.nz and he's on Strava, Instagram and Facebook.
at Everfit Coach, One Word, and I've also popped a link to Brad's book, Holistic Human, in the show notes too, so you can delve more deeply into some of the concepts that Brad discusses today on the show. Before we crack on into the conversation though, just a reminder, the best way to support the podcast is to hit the subscribe button on your favourite podcast listening platform. That increases the visibility of the podcast out there.
and the makes are literally thousands of other podcasts, so more people get the opportunity to learn from the guests that I have on the show. All right, guys, please enjoy the conversation that I have with Brad Dixon.
standing desk up, because I'm like, I'm speaking to Brad Dixon. So I'd better, I'd better be standing when I do it. Yeah, yeah, that's actually, that's really nice to hear. And I should be standing as well, except I just don't have the set up at home quite yet. So I have to sit down when I'm at home doing these. Do you know, it's funny, people are like that with me as well around with their food and stuff. They're sort of, they might, they don't necessarily change their behaviour, but they comment on their behaviour. Just think they're almost.
Preempting what they think I'm gonna be thinking about it, which is actually exactly what I just did. Yeah, that's good It's nice to know that you have having a positive effect on people's behaviors and that people are thinking about it So it's actually you know, I take that as a compliment and you should take it as a compliment as well No, this is good Brad. I am pleased that you think that now We've kicked off. I'm recording. I will of course do a very good introduction To for anyone who doesn't know Brad Dixon
But this is, I was thinking about you this morning because I was swimming and then saunering and you're a big fan of that temperature and health and that relationship. But I haven't seen you in my Instagram feed Brad, doing your Wednesday morning swims. Yeah, look, unfortunately my photographer, Anne Wallace has moved to Raglan. So I'm still doing Wednesday, my no wetsuit Wednesdays, but there's no photographic evidence of it, but it is on Strava.
So you will see me swimming around Leisure Island with a group of people on Strava, but there's no photographs anymore, unfortunately, until I can sort out another camera person. Oh, they were great photos, actually. I know. Yeah, Angie's great. Angie's fantastic. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, well, that's, although I'm happy to hear that you're still enjoying it. Like I haven't been doing as much cold water therapy for the last, up until about five months ago because of...
when I broke my leg, it just wasn't in my routine. But I've been making a conscious effort to get back in. You just feel so much better. Oh, absolutely. I think cold is one of the most underrated health tools there is. When you come out of cold water, you have this focus and relaxation feeling that sort of combines, it dovetails. And you don't really get that unless, meditation, I think you can get it as well.
But it's just such a great feeling, it really is. And I try to promote cold as part of people's health regime, for sure. So when you're talking to patients then, is this part of what you ask them to do or you suggest to them? Do you go that holistic? Yeah, absolutely. Like, I mean, people come and see a physio for a variety of reasons, but I like to go, I like to talk about their lives and what's happening and
A lot of the time, like for instance, I can give you an example. I had one patient a few months ago came in for a shoulder injury. I noticed his skin was really bad. He had really bad eczema. It was like peeling off him to the point where I couldn't actually do any soft tissue work on his back. I just said to him, oh look, can you tell me a little bit of story about your skin? And he'd been seeing specialists for 12 years. He was on prednisone and antibiotics and another quite nasty drug that was giving him some quite bad side effects. He was having a lot of trouble sleeping. I just said, hey, have you heard of cold showers?
He said, no, no one's ever mentioned that to me. So he went away for two weeks at a cold shower every day, came back and his skin was 50% better. He said, look, this is the best my skin's been for five years. Off the bed on his own, I'm sleeping better. Why has no one told me about cold showers before? And this is the problem with our health system. It's so reductionist. We have these skin specialists describing pharmaceuticals and not even mentioning some basic lifestyle changes that could.
help and like this same gentleman went away after that took up ice baths because he was really into it and he came back and his skin was basically cured so in six weeks his eczema had almost completely cleared up and he said that that was the best it's been for 15 years and he was off all his medications. That's amazing and how much do you see Brad of like one particular change almost like an anchor behavior?
How much does that then change other behavior? And maybe this is also aligned with the example you just gave me or another example. Like, do you see this a bit with the people you work with? Yeah, absolutely. If people are motivated and people are curious, you know, and they're not closed off, then absolutely, they'll sort of go in hard in one direction, whether that be yoga or strength or sleep or their diet. And then that opens up the pathway to other behaviors. And it just becomes this lovely forward momentum cycle.
And it's really fun to see. And sometimes you'll see that where the client will come in and you're just mentioning one thing almost offhand and they come back and they've completely changed. And it's just from that one little thing you said. Other people, you'll spend years working on stuff and it's just, the progress is really slow. So everyone's on a different stage of their journey and you just have to respect that and just do the best you can to prompt and promote that change. Yeah, it's interesting. Cause on the flip side, which is what I was...
sort of thinking about with myself over the last month or so was the things that I was doing that were attached to my running, which I hadn't realized that I was no longer, I hadn't even really thought about them. And then it sort of dawned on me that I was feeling a bit down and I wasn't running. I'm like, well, it's because I'm not running, which actually does make a lot of sense in my head. However, as well as I wasn't swimming, I wasn't doing cold water therapy, I wasn't in the sauna. And when I had that realization, I wasn't doing any hit either.
hip based training is just so good for getting you just elevating your mood and making you just, I don't know, making me feel awesome anyway. So when I'd worked that out, um, even though I was still like I'm running now, but it took another sort of four to six weeks to come right. Um, I was at least able to feel a bit better because there's other behaviors were in place. Whereas I see other people and they say,
What happened was because I wasn't doing this one thing, everything else just sort of slid away without me even realizing it. Yep, absolutely. That happens so much and it's happened to me before as well, but it's also can go the other way. Um, because eight years ago when I had my knee injury, that stopped me running for a year. I mean, at the same time, my uncle was very sick, um, with bowel, with bowel cancer. And this is what changed me because I was complaining about my knee and not being able to run and I was moping and...
sulking and my lovely wife just basically told me to pull my head in. Um, you know, my uncle was going through, he was, he was on, you know, he was dying and here I was complaining about not being able to run and she was. And, you know, she was right. And I can remember just changing in an instant and thinking, you know what? She's right. How dare I not be grateful for the fact I can still cycle. I can still swim. Um, I can work on my diet. So I threw myself into cycling and swimming. And.
cleaned up my diet and you know what I came back a better runner like after that year I came back and was faster stronger leaner than I've ever been and so sometimes it just takes a moment of pain to actually create a shift the seismic shift and the way that you do things. Yeah because Brad you're if we sort of take a few steps or decades back you've been an athlete from a quite a
I can't remember where I read this, but I remember hearing that you trained with John Hellermans in his triathlon academy in Christchurch. And I'm a big fan of the whole Hellermans family. Like I worked with En at Otago very briefly, and then I've just really respected her as a nutritionist. But of course, John Hellermans has been like iconic in endurance space. Can you tell us a little bit about that experience? Yeah, like absolutely. John Hellermans, I looked up to, I still look up to him.
He is a guru and I was wanting to join the Triathlon Academy down in Christchurch for a long time and I can remember going to see him and he just basically said, you've got to get a little bit better. And so I went and trained a bit more when I was about 15, I think. 15, I was able to join that group of triathletes. And look, I was training with people like Craig Watson and Ben Bright and Jenny Rose and Sarah Harrow and Brian Rhodes and John Usum.
There was this whole culture of amazing athletes and John was, he was a tough coach. But there was also this camaraderie and this fun in that group of athletes. I just loved it. I loved going to the sand dune running at New Brighton Beach. I loved going to the QE2 stadium and doing the track work. And it really helped me.
figure out what's needed in a successful training regime. And that is hard work, hard graph, but fun. And when you combine those two things, that's when the magic happens, it really does. Yeah, and did that inform you, Brad, as to your professional career? Were you always interested in physiotherapy or did that come later? I mean, obviously it came later, but did part of that experience help that? Yeah.
I think I did a little bit. Look, I wanted to be a fighter pilot. So I went through all the testing. I went to Purcell. I went to the camp. I went through all the stuff. And right at the end, this was in my sixth form year, I sat down in front of the board of the Air Force. And they basically looked at me and said, you know what, Brad, you've come through all the tests really well. You've come through Purcell really well. But you know what? You'll never be a fighter pilot in this Air Force or any Air Force anywhere in the world.
You failed the monkey box test. That's basically a, it's a coordination test. I failed it so badly I was off the spectrum. They said that they'll never, they'll never accept me. Don't bother coming back. And it was really hard at that time. That was a real, I wanted to be, I wanted to be, I wanted to be a pilot. I wanted to be a fighter pilot. And so that absolutely, I was gutted because people in that same group.
actually came back and became pilots. Others went to Australia and were flying the Hornets, the fighter planes there, but I was one of six that just wasn't even asked to come back. So Brad, can I ask, the monkey box test, I don't know if you can recall, and I'm sorry if I'm bringing up some bad memories. Hateful memories, yeah, painful. Yeah, looking back.
Could you have actually passed it? Do you think like, had you practiced? Like I have any, I don't, I would not know what was involved. Like how is it not trainable? Yeah, I think it is trainable. And look, so the monkey box test was basically sitting in a box, you had a dot and there was a box around it and you had to keep the dot in the middle of the box with some foot pedals and a steering wheel.
But you also, there was a light, I can't exactly remember, it was a green light or a red light. And whenever the green light came on, you had to take your hand off and you had to push the sleeve of Ford. And if the red light came on, you had to come take your hand off and push it back while you're trying to keep the dot in the box. Wow, yeah. So yeah, it's like I failed that miserably. And if I'd played more video games, and if I had made it, I would have passed it. But I just failed it so badly that I thought that was a lost hopes.
Oh my goodness. I can't imagine how devastating that would have been given everything. You sort of gave it your all over that year to be told that that was never going to happen. So yeah, but it looked like it's worked out for the best because look, I would have been a useless fighter pilot. My direction sense is horrific. So look, I would have been horrific. The funny thing is my wife, she went through the same thing and she was accepted. So she was accepted to be a pilot, but she turned it down because of her eyesight and she went on to be a doctor.
we went through the same sort of process, which was really interesting. Yeah, not together? No, no, different year, different year. Yeah. Yeah, so interesting. But no, look, I was really glad that I failed that miserably because an opportunity arose to be able to get into physiotherapy school from my sixth form grades. So from seventh form, which is year 13 for the younger listeners.
So after the seventh form year, we went straight into physio school. And look, it was really different to what I expected. I expected it to be really sport orientated, but it just wasn't. We did a lot of hospital work. I worked in a hospital, I was walking patients in surgical wards and orthopedic wards. To be fair, I didn't really like it. I thought a lot of it was just not me. I just didn't feel... I felt like...
part of a system that was broken. I think the health system that I was working in was broken. I just felt like there were wards with specific specialties and there were just people falling through the cracks. And that was back then, this was in the late 90s. And I think it's worse now. Yeah, did you have a sense of this kind of holistic approach to health then? Or were you just an active kid going into this hospital setting and thinking, oh my God, this is just horrendous?
Yeah, like I was an active kid. I didn't really have any understanding about holistic health at all. Okay, nothing. I just thought I had a very biomedical, biophysical medical model. You know, you had pain, it was because you had soreness there, that was it. Like I had no idea. And so it was only through a little bit of my probably chronic pain training that I did in my fourth year at physio school, a bit of cognitive behavioral therapy types up there. I started to realize that actually, hey, what you thought
has a bearing on your experience of discomfort. And I started to understand, I had a basic idea that there was a mind-body connection. So, and then that's really evolved. And then over the last eight years, it's just exploded for me. It's just like, oh my God, yeah, why haven't I, why couldn't I see this? I just felt like I was completely blind before. And if you're looking back at your, sort of the cohort that you went through in physio school,
Obviously you all did, I imagine you would have done the same curriculum with that mind-body, that chronic pain. Did others have a similar trajectory in terms of their understanding of the mind-body awareness? Is that something that's typical of physio or not? I think so. Look, I think a lot of my classmates have gone in the same direction. We all realize that basic physiotherapy is not.
one avenue to help people. And it's just important that you really look outside the box and understand that we are holistic beings, we are mind, body, soul, spirit, however you want to say it. And it's all enmeshed together, you can't separate it like the Western medical system has done. And that we need to treat people as whole people. We need to get to know them, we need to understand their context, we need to understand their relationships, their roles in life, what they think about things. And if you do that, you can be a more effective therapist.
So whether you're an osteotherapist, a physiotherapist, chiropractor, massage therapist, that holistic model, that mind, body, soul model should be foremost in your mind when you're treating people. Yeah, and I think about that in reference to nutrition and how everything's reduced down. And you talked about that sort of reductionist model at the start of our conversation. Everything is reduced down to a nutrient or an issue or something like that, whereas
nothing works in silo, it's all part of this complex system. So whenever you change something, there is something else in the area you might not even be thinking about that is going to be affected by that change. Yeah, exactly right. And that's why I really like your work because we have a lot of overlapping agreeance in terms of food. And that is we need as a society to eat more real food. Like it's...
It's like we just need to move towards eating more real food, more seasonal vegetables, more seasonal fruit, and just making sure that we are making choices that is going to allow us to be the best version of ourselves. And to do that, we have to choose food that doesn't have the nutrient content stripped away from it, and it doesn't have preservatives and chemicals added to it. We need, you know, and unfortunately, 60% of the food that we eat is quite highly processed nutrients stripped away.
And we wonder why we're having problems. We wonder why we're having gut issues, mental health issues. It's just food is a big part of holistic health. I remember you and I having a conversation actually back in maybe it was 2020 when it was after the first lockdown, it was lockdown. And then we got to level three and and people kept messaging me saying.
Mickey, you've got to, why aren't you saying anything about the government giving free donuts? I can't remember what the government did or people lining up to McDonald's or something. And it was that you couldn't possibly after a month of this absolute sort of bombshell had hit the entire world, be like, okay guys, what are you doing at KFC? That's not good for your health. It's having that.
There's a lot of mixed messaging, I think, out there in terms of health priorities, maybe, that come from the top. And knowing when and when to comment and how to comment and commenting on that stuff is, yeah, it's a constant sort of, I feel like I'm constantly navigating a certain space, I guess. Yeah, you're absolutely right. And I think...
We have, I think it's important sometimes to put things out there that are uncomfortable and will rock the boat. Because if you're not doing that, then you're not doing your job. Because at the end of the day, our society is broken and sick. And we have to try to promote simple, free changes to that. And sometimes when I put things out on social media and I get backlash, I now just think, well, look, you know, what I'm doing here is just, I'm just getting people
thinking. And if someone responds in a negative way or they attack me, I think, well, that's good. It means that I'm stirring something up. And then I usually always respond, but I respond in a positive, caring way because if someone's lashing out, well, there's something there that needs to be dealt with. And I think you've got to be careful not to try and please everybody with what you're putting out or what you're saying.
Trying to please people all the time. Well, that's very tiring and it stops you being who you are and who you are meant to be. So I think we all need to make sure that we that we, you know, communicate in ways that is loving and caring and to be loving and caring. Sometimes you have to say hard stuff. Yeah, is that tough love? Kind of, yeah. Basically, yeah. Hey, Brad, when did you... So you, I know, obviously you've written a book, Hallisakuman, and you talk about...
the health of your uncle and your father as being part of the genesis for a health transition for you. Do you want to fill us in on the on more of those details? Was it around the same time that you also had your knee injury as an athlete? Yeah, so look, it all started way back when I was 12 years of age. So the origin story starts there. My grandfather, who was the fittest, kindest, most lovely man that I knew, died of a massive heart attack.
quite suddenly. Like he had one heart attack and then he was debilitated for a few months. And then I had a chest pain when he was pulling weeds, went inside and died on the dining room table in front of my Nana. How old was he Brad? He was in his mid to late sixties, I think he was about 67. But he was a fit 67 year old. Like he was having running races with me, beating me. He was strong, lovely man. And that really hit me hard. I can remember.
just been so upset and just thinking this is so unfair. And then 10 years after that, I was at physio school and I came home from physio school to visit my parents and I took my dad to the gym because I'd learned all this cool stuff about exercise. And my dad was really short of breath on the rhyme machine. I said, dad, you need to go get yourself sorted out with your GP. I think you've got asthma. I looked three days later, he was having an emergency quadruple bypass because his arteries were so blocked that he would have been
Within three months, the specialist was saying he would have died of a heart attack. Goodness. And that was at 58. And the funny thing about that is his bloods were fine. His cholesterol was fine. There was nothing to show that he was that blocked up, like 95% blocked up in some of the main arteries. And so that got me thinking as well a little bit about lifestyle choices. Then my uncle, later after that, was diagnosed with grade four bowel cancer.
And that's when I had my meniscus injury. And that's really what sparked it about eight years ago, where I just thought, like I've got to dive into some lifestyle stuff because one selfishly, I don't want to die early. I want to do everything I can to minimize that risk. And I think what I learned, and I'm sure what you understand and talk about a lot as well, is epigenetics. You know, we can dial up and dial down, turn up, turn down our genetic expression with lifestyle choices. And that's so powerful. And people need to know this.
I agree. It's not written in your genes. If your dad and your grandfather died of a heart attack, it doesn't mean that you have to. If your mother, if your grandmother has type 2 diabetes, it doesn't mean that you need to follow that path. It might mean you might need to work harder at some things, but you know what? Lifestyle out of the way, what we do, what we think, how we move, what we eat, that all sends messages to our genes to express in a slightly different way.
And people need to understand this because it empowers them. Yeah. It gives them power to make changes with simple daily habits. And that's what gets me really excited. You must hear it a bit, Brad. I certainly do when I'm talking to an individual about their health history, because that is, you know, that's certainly one of the biggest risk factors if I'm thinking about.
cardiovascular disease and diabetes, just, you know, what's actually gone on in your family. But they almost say it like it's a foregone conclusion, you know, oh, my cholesterol's high but I mean, my parents also had high cholesterol. There is nothing that they can do about it. And sometimes, and this might ruffle a few feathers, but sometimes people, and I don't
you know, like, oh, there's nothing I can do about it. So I'm not even gonna try. And that's when having the message that they can actually do something about it is really, I mean, it's important all the time, but actually, like for them to feel empowered rather than frustrated at the idea that they can't do anything about it, I think is super important. But some people don't necessarily take the opportunity. Yeah, absolutely. I think a lot of people are scared. And a lot of people.
just almost put their trust in doctors in the pharmaceutical industry and think I've just got to take these pills. My doctor said I have to be on these for life. And sometimes with lifestyle changes and choices, sometimes those people with the doctor's involvement can titrate off some of those medications, don't have to be on them for life. No, there's always an exception, but people need to understand that.
cholesterol lowering medication, blood pressure medication, a lot of the time people can reduce those meds and maybe even come off them with the right support and with some simple lifestyle changes in terms of movement, exercise and diet. But I don't know if it's promoted enough because my wife's a GP, the system isn't set up for people to spend time with people. The GPs only have 10 or 15 minutes. They're chasing their tail. They're all burnt out.
They don't have time to sit down and go through food diaries. And, you know, and so that's where I think they have to learn to refer to a nutritionist that is able to do that and able to speak to making those lifestyle changes. So Brad, what were the big, so obviously you were already somewhat active when you had a transition in your health. What were the things, well, first, where did you start to look for information to make these wholesale changes? And then what were the changes you made? Yeah. So.
The first thing I started doing was listening to podcasts. Rich Roll? Absolutely. So Rich Roll was the first guy I listened to in 2014. And I started listening to him and he had some really cool guests on and they were really inspiring. And they were saying things that I just didn't understand. And so I just started looking into that a little bit more and then more podcasts. So I started looking and listening to Peter Artia and...
and even Joe Rogan and just different people, Andrew Huberman lately as well and Dr. Rhonda Patrick. And you just listen to all these people and get all this amazing information. And then you start to think, hey, I could maybe apply that. And so what I did in that first year when I get my knee injury and I changed my diet. So my first inn was changing my diet. So I basically changed to a plant-based vegan diet. So I went all in. So I just cut.
all meat, all animal products out, just smashed back as much vegetable and fruit as possible and went all in. Was Coral in the same boat as well? Yeah, look, she was. So our whole family back in 2014, 2015 transitioned to basically a vegan diet and predominantly whole food. And that was cool, you know, because as a family, if you've got people in your family that aren't wanting to do that, that makes it really hard.
I was very fortunate that my whole family were really keen to go on this journey. So back 2014, 15, 16, we were predominantly vegan whole food. But look, now things have changed a little bit. As we've moved on, my wife now eats a little bit of fish. My girls eat eggs and they have a little bit of dairy. They love their cheese. So look, things have changed. I couldn't say that we're a vegan family anymore. Predominantly, yeah.
but not fully. That's where I think it's nice to not put yourself in a box. It's about finding your own way and not being scared about not fitting into a label. And so for me, I'm now, yeah, look, I'm 95% vegan, 5% vegetarian, mainly whole food, but look, I have treats now and then. I'm just not as...
not as sort of black and white as I used to be around my nutrition. And that's, I'm in a really good place with that and feel really happy that I've found something, a lifestyle, an eating life so that I can do for the rest of my life. Sometimes I feel Brad that people need to go to extremes to find balance. And like, cause I certainly did. And you know, you go from one end of the spectrum to the other and then slowly sort of move back to some sort of.
middle ground where you realize that you're healthy and you're happy and you're not overly stressed about what you're doing and you're able to recover properly and things like that. So I appreciate what you're saying and I do, but I wonder how much, and I don't think everyone has to do it, but I do think some people almost might be in a similar position that they almost have to be extreme to find that balance because finding balance.
outside of sort of knowing where the edges are might be a little bit challenging for some people. I don't know. Yeah, I think so. I think sometimes people get stuck in tribes and tribalism. And so they become part of this tribe. They find new friends in that tribe and they want to belong. And so they kind of just stick to that rhetoric. And they're almost afraid, you know, just like, you know.
I mean, now I'm quite happy to say, hey, I eat the odd egg every now and then. I have cheese as a treat on pizza every now and then. Not all the time. But I'm not afraid to say that. Maybe back in the day, I was so black and white about it, and probably a little bit of annoying preachy prat, actually. Oh, no, I was the same. But now I think, look, I'm just happy doing what I'm doing. And I really like my eating regime, and it serves me really well.
and my family have found out, found what serves them well. And now actually the eating thing is, that's been done. I'm now working on other stuff and playing around with other things, you know, because there's so much more to holistic health than just diet. That's definitely a good part, but it's not the be all and end all. And I think it's about looking at the other stuff and making sure that you're working on those other pillars and those other facets. Yeah, and you know, you've got great messaging around food
or the way that you're portraying your approach now is very, it reminds me of what Rich Roll, or how Rich Roll sort of also talks about it. He's like, hey look, I'm an extreme vegan endurance athlete. If I can move just one person slightly across the spectrum to be slightly closer from the other end of the spectrum, then I have done my job. He's, he and you, and a lot of people in your space who I also really...
I'm inspired by, it's not about perfectionism. It's about being able to put across positive messaging, as you say, that encourage people to be curious about what they do and find the thing that works best for them. Yeah, absolutely. I think it's really bad when people shame others to try and create change. You can't shame people to change. What you need to do is create curiosity.
and put out information. And I think we've got far too much division in the world generally anyway. And so we shouldn't be having division over what nutritional tribe you're in. We should all be coming together and trying to promote a better way of living for our society because our society is sick and broken. We have a reflective health system of that that is sick and broken. We have a 20...
billion dollar a year health industry. 80% of it is from lifestyle disease and we're not promoting lifestyle changes first and foremost. And so we all need, any health practitioner, any therapist needs to make sure that we have that in mind when we put information across. We need to shift the needle because our society desperately needs it.
It's I had a chat to someone last week on sedentary behavior. And I thought about that this morning as I saw the news report come out of the most recent research showing that kids who watch a lot of TV, then go on to develop more metabolic syndrome, um, as adults and metabolic syndrome is that cluster of blood sugar, blood pressure, waist circumference, um, the whole host of things and it's, and that's just really telling of.
society really that we live in. We also discussed last week with this professor who works in Centrally Behaviour, the physical activity guidelines actually. I don't know how many people have good knowledge of them, and I certainly know less than half of New Zealanders actually follow them, but they're not even that, extreme's not the word. They're not...
They're not that hard to meet actually. And the fact that 50% of us don't is not just the individual's fault, it's the way that society's set up. Look, I agree totally. And I've talked about this with a lot of people. We need to challenge people to be optimum, not recommended. Yes. And it's the same with eating. Maybe five fruit and vegetables a day. Look, we need to be smashing back as much nutrient rich food as possible.
And exercise, look, we should be saying to people, look, we need to aim for an hour of activity daily, and that can be made up of cardiovascular exercise, a little bit of strength, maybe some flexibility. But look, we need to be aiming for way more, because at the moment we are so sick that you're five times 30 minutes a week of walking briskly, I'm sorry. Yeah, if you're not there, great, aim for that, but then we need to push further. Yeah, yeah, yeah, set limits high, totally.
So Brad, how did you change your, or did you change your physical activity habits at the same time? Obviously you were already physically active, but did you start to approach activity with a different mindset? Yeah, absolutely. So what I, the biggest change I think I made was, I learned that micro chunks of activity were really beneficial. Like I had that mind, I had that mindset back in 2014 that unless I could get out for an hour, it was a waste of time. So if I couldn't get out for an hour bike ride or an hour run or do an hour swim,
well then it was not worth it. So I just wouldn't do it. But after 2014, 15, listening to different podcasts, different people, I realized that, you know, just doing 90 seconds of pushups, so beneficial because of the after effects basically. So I started to understand that, you know, just having not only your maybe half an hour run, but maybe doing a 15 minute micro chunk of some kettlebell work, five minutes of yoga, and it just all added up. And I started just looking at
The three pillars I believe of physical prowess is your cardiovascular fitness, your strength, your core strength, full body strength, and then your flexibility, mobility that control through range. And once those three things in place, that really allows you to build a really great platform for that physical resilience and robustness. So I started to just be maybe a little bit more holistic in my physical approach to exercise where it would be cardiovascular stuff.
strength stuff and that stretching mobility stuff. And I probably try and do bits of it every day. And I found that that really just improved my running performance. I was able to come back from that first knee injury and basically get personal best times in half marathon at the age of 42, compared to 25, I thought I'd never be able to beat that again. And that was just due to lots of consistent daily habits. And that really fueled me with a lot of passion to say, hey,
in your 40s, you can actually do more. You can actually be fit and be strong and still actually be able to run fast. And I wanna try to carry this on into my 50s and into my 60s, and I think it can be done. Yeah, and did that change how you were practicing with your patients as well? Yeah, absolutely, I just gave them more to do. So when people come and see me,
They get a sheet basically with five facets on it in terms of postural, strength, flexibility, cardiovascular fitness and then lifestyle stuff down at the bottom with it was with eating and cold and yoga and meditation. So they get given a whole host of things to do on their first visit with me. Because I say to them, look, it's not what I do. It's not how laying hands on your behalf now here once a week. It's actually what you do every minute, every day outside this clinic.
You are the alchemist. You are the power behind the change. I can give you all this information and I can do a little bit of hands-on stuff and support you, but really it's about you. And so I'm just trying to empower people to make that change. And it's just been so much more fulfilling over the last eight years as a physio because of the changes that I've seen. And it's just fun to empower people to make change. It's not been all on me.
It's actually a collaboration. And it's actually putting some of the onus and the responsibility on the client, on the patient. And I think that's where our problem is in our health systems. I think people come and wanna be fixed. They wanna be fixed by surgeons. They wanna be fixed by GPs. And you know what? I just wish the GPs had the time to say, look, I'm sorry, but you need to go away. And I'll give you this medication for that, but you need to actually go away and start a walking practice.
go to bed earlier, you need to stop eating that crap and maybe swap up for this, but they just don't have time to work on the big blocks of that wellness water, the stuffing around with the pebbles. And this is what gets me really upset. I just feel that people are blaming our health system rather than maybe looking at themselves. Yeah, interesting. Yeah. And is that a popular message, Brad? Oh yeah, so popular. People love to hear that they're the architect of their own.
People love it. Yeah. I'm very careful how I say it. No, I know you are. Because you're right, it can be really upsetting. But it's just about, you've got to empower and then help people to move towards that. And I've got a saying saying, you can't drive a 10 ton truck of truth over a one tonne bridge of friendship. You do need to build that rapport.
you do need to build that relationship and then you can drive more information across. And so you just have to do that in a loving way. Like I love you, I want the best for you so therefore I want you to be the fittest and healthiest you can be so that you can feel amazing and be of service. I don't want you to feel like this. And so it's coming from a place of love. And I imagine that if I go back to your example of the man who had the skin condition which
after just some small advice from you completely cleared up. I mean, you've got that person's trust, you know, and then the people that he talks to about his experience, they'll also, that will get attention and trust as well. So sometimes it's, so you're right, actually just small little nuggets can really start building that. Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's just really nice when people get massive change from something so simple as a cold shower.
or so simple as a daily walk in the sunlight as the sun is rising, as they get light into their eyes and they just feel like they can then sleep better at the other end of the day. Like just these little things that we know that the science is proving now, like the research is just out there. I think we're drowning in research now. We're drowning in information and we just have a real lack of application. So it's our job and I'm saying, you and me, it's our job to...
distill this information into easy bite-sized chunks of application. And we just have to keep putting it out there because if we can keep putting it out there and change one person's life, well, there's going to be a ripple effect and they're going to talk to their family and friends. And then we can create a tidal wave of change for our society and we can move people in the right direction so they're fit and healthy and strong and vibrant. And I really, so I believe that. I believe that that's possible.
But there's a lot of barriers in the way. There is, and it has to come from, and that, you know, the bottom up really, doesn't it? Because there's nothing that convinces me that it doesn't matter which government is in and which, you know, who is sort of leading sort of policy and stuff. Like, this has never been on the agenda of any government in any meaningful way that's made any sort of difference. So it absolutely has to be at that population level.
Yeah, you're absolutely right. You can't change the heart of men and women with policy. No. It's never happened. So policy is three, four year cycles. It's basically to get tick boxes. What we're talking about is lifestyle change. It's in the long run. So governmental departments, I don't think are grabbing hold of this sort of stuff. And health departments.
Unfortunately, don't put this preventative medicine, this functional preventative medicine as high priority as it should be, because $1 invested in prevention will save you $16 down the line. The trouble is that down the line is 15 to 25 years. Yeah, it's too long. It's too long for people to invest in that. So it's our job as practitioners, as therapists, to make sure that we educate people
this long term approach and putting these daily habits, simple daily habits, starting with where you are now and just be consistent with that and then build from there. So Brad, where are you at on steps? How many steps should we be doing in a day? Yeah, look, I think there's pluses and minuses for this kind of thinking. I always say to people, look, if you're not doing 10,000 steps a day and you're not doing any other exercise, then great, that's a great way to start. You get up to there, fantastic. But you know what?
That's your first step, practically. I think we should be doing 10,000 steps a day and doing an hour of exercise on top of that. So that's the first step. So I get a lot of people saying, oh, I've done my 10,000 steps. And I say, great, hey, good on ya. What else? It's hey, I'm really proud of you for doing that and you've done that for a week or two now. Great, well, let's push on. What can I say? Maybe, do you wanna go for, do you wanna start a bit of a, some cycling?
some rowing, you like swimming, let's get you on a pool, let's get you on the water. What about your weights? Are you doing any weights? Yoga, have you started your yoga journey yet? Hey, we need to say, yeah, great, but what else? Let's move on, let's move on. Let's just not stay at 10,000 steps. Yeah, yeah, no, that's great. I actually, I speak to a number of people who are at well below and we start by going, I'm like, okay, so 10,000's great.
10,000 is where you want to be, you're at 3,000. Can we get you up to 4,000 in a couple of weeks? Like that's that sort of slow, yeah, yeah. No, don't worry about going from zero to hero. Yeah. Let's climb it, you know, climb that staircase much more sort of moderately. But I appreciate your sentiment with that. Yeah, absolutely. I think we have to, you know, it's important to talk to people about the body can only absorb so much load before it breaks down.
So it's really important to take things slowly because our muscles will adapt quickly, but our tendons, which have lower blood supply, and our ligaments and our joints, need time to adapt, to load. So it's really important to build up slow. This is a long game. This isn't an eight week boot camp. This isn't a 12 week diet. This isn't a cleanse. This is creating habits for a lifetime. And I talk to my girls about, you know, find a craft and graft on it. Graft on your craft. And we've got a...
We've got a graft and a craft, you know, and so my girls play guitar, they're really musical. And I say to them, you've got to be on that guitar every day, even if it's just five minutes, 10 minutes, but graft on your craft. You want to get good? You just, just work at it. Just keep working at it. Show up. My kids don't listen to me, by the way, they don't listen to me ever. But I'd like to continue to say stuff. So I feel like I'm at some sort of value here in my household. Oh, I understand.
And the thing is that they'll look back and they'll remember. This is what I think when I'm thinking about how I'm putting together my meals and I'm encouraging certain things which are just completely dis. I'm like, you're going to look back in about 10 years time and go, oh, she was smart. You know, she did tell me about that. So this is that's what I sort of live in and hope for. And so Brad, diet, physical activity.
Talk to me about your meditation and yoga recommendations or practice yourself. Do you have a regular practice and what difference or change have you noticed with that? Yeah, look, I found this quite transformational. When I first started this journey in 2014, I thought yoga and meditation were a waste of time. There's no way you'd get me doing yoga. No way. And meditation? What a...
It's just the worst thing I can imagine. But there were so many people talking about it on these podcasts, like the podcast's hosts would have these guests and they'd be bringing out this research, talking about the science, then they're talking about their experiences, and it's like, oh, I better give this a go. So I downloaded the Headspace app with Andy Petticume, and I did it for a hundred days. And I felt like you needed to do a habit for about a hundred days before you could feel whether that was gonna be
beneficial or not. So everything I did was probably 100 days. And that the meditation was mind blowing. I found I did five or 10 minutes every day for 100 days. And just coming out of that 100 days, I just felt so much, just more clear. I had more time, more space to react. I was more proactive, less reactive. I had a bit of mood. I was just a bit more calm. Like I could just feel it.
I didn't need the science to tell me that I could feel it. So the meditation, I would recommend that to anyone. If you are having issues with stress or anxiety, or you're feeling rushed, or you're feeling torn into one place and to the other, start some form of meditation. I think it's one of the best ways to get into the present, focus on the breath. That's a simple way to move from more of a sympathetic to a...
parasympathetic way of being and really powerful. So I can't talk about that enough. So meditation, incredibly beneficial. And then the yoga, yoga is just basically breath work with some movements and that's incredibly powerful as well. I did yoga, did a class once a week and then I did 10 minutes of yoga, three or four times a week for the first year. Now I just do yoga five or 10 minutes a day.
and I find it really beneficial after a run. I use it as a little bit of a primer before races. I find it, it's just part of my day. It's like brushing my teeth. I brush my teeth twice a day, and my yoga I do once a day at least, and I just feel it's helped. It's a big part of me being able to run well into my late 40s. The yoga is a major pillar of that, along with the...
the strength and the core and the structured training and everything else. But it's a major part of it. Yeah. No, that's super interesting. And particularly, of course, as we age, you do notice you need a lot more of that mobility stuff to even just sort of get out the door actually. Totally. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I like the way that you posit that Brad is, is not necessarily that you have to do.
three times 60 minute classes a week and find time for that, but just building it into your daily sort of practice. Yeah, and there's some good research to show that that's actually really, really beneficial. Five or 10 minutes of yoga a day is sometimes even better than one 60 minute class a week, even though it's less time in the week. Five or 10 minutes a day, it just keeps something, it keeps the tissue pliable. There's something called tissue creep. As we get older, our tissue becomes, I suppose, less resilient.
It's more injury prone, it's less hydrated, it's a bit weaker, connective tissue is not quite as good. So to do something daily in small amounts is very powerful, especially as we age. Yeah. And on hydration, do you give recommendations around that? Given you've got such a focus on the tissue in the body and stuff, like people always talk about, you know, there's no real research to show that you need eight glasses of water a day, like so therefore you shouldn't even worry about it. Well, that's certainly not.
the case. What is your recommendation? Yeah, look, my go-to is Dr. Andy Galpin. I really like Dr. Andy Galpin's work. He's got some great stuff out there. So I tend to recommend... So my recommendation is 33 ml of water per kilogram of body weight per day in the first 10 hours of waking. So the first 10 hours after waking is when your kidney is at its best for being able to filtrate and work. And so...
So that's a recommendation that I've stolen from Dr. Andy Galpin and Dr. Andrew Huberman. So they've both come up with their recommendations and I've just combined them. So that's the EverFit recommendation. And I think a lot of people are just under hydrated, especially in winter. People come and see me and I go through some food diaries with them and some of them are drinking under a litre a day.
And then they're getting injured and they've got brain fog and they're not sleeping. It's like, well, look, we've got to sort the hydration out. Like water's actually pretty important. You know, so yeah, so I do think hydration is a big part of that holistic health. Yeah, I completely agree. And people are often blown away when you point out how important or the impact, the negative impact that dehydration has.
on them when they're coming to you and they're like super tired in the afternoon and they've got headaches, a simple change like water and electrolytes can make such a difference. Yeah, it really can. Like I've had a couple of miracle turnarounds of people coming in with all this joint pain, headaches, lack of sleep, and I've just given them the hydration stuff. I come back a week later and go, you know what, I haven't had a headache since, so I'm sleeping better. Maybe it was the hydration.
Yeah, and I bet you'd notice that in their tissue as well, like a change in the tissue. Yeah, absolutely. You know, as you know, your muscles are what, 70% water. If you're dehydrated, you're just not as pliable and you can, and I'm sure there's good massage therapists that would be able to feel that in people that are dehydrated. So yeah, so hydration, water, you know, just a simple thing, isn't it? That it's a lot of something that people just don't think about. Yeah, for sure. So Brad.
To sort of close the loop if you like, and I wonder whether this will close the loop on the holistic side of things. Obviously we've got relationships and how you operate in society as a human. Sleep is there something else that you talk about? Yeah, absolutely. So sleep is one of those things that I really delved into in that first year. So I recommend to my clients seven and a half to nine hours a night, but if you're an athlete,
seven hours plus every hour that you train, you should sleep. So if you're training two hours a night, then nine hours probably is a minimum. But the big thing with sleep I talk about is consistency. And so I believe that one thing that really helps with people's hormonal health is their cementing and their circadian rhythm. So when you go to bed and get up at a similar time, week to week to week to week, your body, your system loves consistency. And when you get that
that hormone regulation, that sort of platform, it really helps with that hormonal health. You know, you get that little spike of cortisol in the morning, you get that nice melatonin release at the, you know, when you go into bed and then you get your growth hormone and testosterone in that first few hours of sleep. If we can get that all working really consistently, that can really help with a whole host of issues that I see. So I talk about that sleep consistency.
that planning, that boring planning and preparation. It's so boring. There's nothing sexy about it, but I'll tell you what, it just, it's gold. It's just gold. And so if I can get- And I think the people that do it really understand that. Like it's the pillars that they sort of base their entire week around. Yeah, absolutely. And it's just so important. So sleep is one of those things that it's the best performing.
Enhancing agent there is when you're well when you sleep well and your sleep quality is good man You know about it You know you just feel on fire and from a physical point of view and from that psychological point of view You know when you're feeling well rested you can just deal with stuff so much better You have far more space to make better decisions, and there's a real flow on effect there So yeah sleeps huge. I'm a big believer and in sorting out people's sleep patterns Yeah
And I think a lot of sleep for people I talk to comes down to discipline, actually. Like it's the end of the day, the kids are in bed, they've just finished folding all the washing, making the lunches. It's nine o'clock. They've just sitting down and actually it's probably time they went to bed to get the sleep, but they feel like they need a little bit of time to themselves. Yeah. In that moment, how do you respond to clients if they sort of share that with you, Brad? Like, do you?
in a different way or like how would you respond? Yeah, look, I say absolutely you deserve a little bit of you time, but you just have to limit that you time. So it's not two hours of watching Netflix. Maybe it's just half this. Maybe it's just watching half a show on Netflix and going to bed and reading a book for 10 minutes. So absolutely have the you time, but just don't overdo the you time. There's so many people that at nine 30 scrolling through social media, mindless Netflix and then binging another one on top and then it's 11 o'clock. So
that hour at the end of the day, if you can be a bit more disciplined, a bit more proactive about that, you can really make big gains. So I agree with you, I think people do need that you time, they need a bit of down regulation time, maybe some time actually speaking to their partner for the first time the whole day. But 15 or 30 minutes of that quality time then, rather than an hour and a half of just watching the box, you know, it's just about making some choices at the end of the day that's gonna serve you better.
Yeah, yeah, completely. And it's not until you try something different that you actually realize that you feel so much better either. And I really loved how you posited that 100 days to build a habit and to figure out if that's working for you. Like I think that's such, that's really good actionable advice for anyone sort of listening and write 100 days. It's not actually that long, you know, I think that's really awesome. Yeah, three months, you know, there's a lot of research suggesting that you do need that sort of 90 to 100 days, you know, that,
21 days, that doesn't develop a habit. That just creates a little bit of change, but no, that doesn't create a habit. So that hundred days, I think, it really helps cement stuff. And when you've done that, you really know whether it's serving you or not, and it's gonna give you a little bit more of a platform to really put that into your life. Yeah, for sure. Brad, I'm really keen to know whether or not you have a, obviously we...
started off by talking about your Wednesday swim habit, which I'm a bit sad that Anne is no longer there for her photography because I loved seeing those pictures. I found those pictures really inspiring, but to know that you actually do it anyway, that's good. Any other cold water therapy stuff that you do during the week? Yeah, absolutely. So I do, I mean, I do cold showers every morning. So I've been having cold showers every morning for about seven years. And even now and then I'll have a warm shower. That's like...
For instance, if I go out on a winter's run and I'm chilled and I come back, then I have a lukewarm shower as a bit of a treat. Because I think cold on top of prolonged cold actually isn't good for you. It's that short, sharp shock that's very useful health and wellness-wise. So yeah, cold showers daily, 20 minute swim on a Wednesday, a no wetsuit Wednesday, and then two or three other times during the week after a run, I will go to the beach, do some pushups.
and just get into the sea for three or four minutes up to my neck and just get cold and then come out and go from there. And then in the summer I have done a few ice baths as well. My mate's got a freezer set up in his garage. So I do a little bit of that sort of two, three degree water thing as well in the summer. But in the winter I've got the ocean right outside. So I just use that.
Oh, that's so awesome. I love being in the ocean, it makes it. Oh, I feel anxious at the idea of it until I'm in it. And then I feel amazing for like the rest of the day, because it's that whole idea of being cold. You know, it's going to make you feel really good. But it's you almost have to steal your mind towards it and not give yourself the opportunity to opt out, I reckon. Yeah, absolutely. And you're right. You know, sometimes it's those short term painful things that create that long term gain. And
It's about making sure that you're getting comfortable with uncomfortable and you're embracing that discomfort because when you do that from a physical and from a psychological level it's just so beneficial for us. Yeah and what about sauna? Brad, do you have the ability to do any sauna? Not really no but it's definitely beneficial. My wife loves saunering like whenever we have a chance she should love to have a sauna but I'm more of a cold person.
I don't enjoy the feeling after a sauna as much as I do with the cold. So for me, there's similar benefits with some of those shock proteins that you get with the extremes of temperature with heat and cold. But for me, I really like to dive into the cold and the sauna. Yeah, I'll have one every now and then, but it's not a practice that I do often. Yeah, no, that's awesome. And I know exactly what you're saying there because I love the feeling.
I love the feeling at the time of both of them, but I certainly love the feeling post-cold compared to the sauna. Brad, you've got a lot of great information on your website. You share a lot on social media and of course you've got your book. What is the best place for people to find out more about your recommendations, like the things that we've talked about, but also actually potentially...
if someone's interested in seeing you for a bit of a health overhaul slash physical therapy type analysis. Yeah, I think just heading to my website, so everfit.co.nz, also on Instagram and YouTube, Ever Fit Coach. And you can just connect with me there. You can buy my book from the website. So the book, Hellister Cuman is basically just a distilled version of about 150 wellness books that I've read over the last seven years.
And so it's just a book. It's a very small book and it has a chapter on each of the habits that we've discussed. And then it has references at the end. And it's just a really nice little health guide that I think is really easily digestible. It's not, there's not, no big words in it. You know, it's just, it's pretty simple, but it just, for me, it's almost like a manifesto of just trying to get this message of empowerment out there and embracing simple daily habits that light you up and make you a better human being. Because we need
We need more better human beings in the world at the moment. We really do. Yeah. No, I love that Brad. And actually, finally, just before we close off, like, are you building a solar power batch? Is this what I'm seeing on your, like, you're so passionate about environmental health and change. And I love reading your content around that. And I see you and your family out there building something. What's going on? Yeah, look, we, we have a little bit of land near the Rotorua lakes and we've spent the last year and a half.
clearing just a very small 300 square meters of it, which took a lot of family time with some chainsaws to get rid of some trees. And my wife, look, she's wasted as a GP. She should have been an architect or a builder or an artist. She's incredible. And so she took two weeks off work, and her and her dad and a builder that she found, they spent two weeks constructing this little cabin. Oh my goodness. So she's got all the power, like my wife's incredible. Like I can't rave about her enough.
She's bought all the power tools. She's got everything. She's got battery powered drop source. She's got skill source. She's got the nail gun. And she just wanted to go and learn a few tricks of the trade. And so she's, yeah, her and her dad and the other builder basically, yeah, built this little cabin. And so now we're just trying to put, as a family, just trying to put the finishing touches on. So we're just trying to actually do the painting. The windows have just gone in.
so it's closed in and then we'll fit it out inside. And then we've got a caravan and a little cabin on our bit of land and yeah, I'm really excited. We've got some kayaks and we just go there and yeah, Kyle and I are pretty excited. The girls, you know, the girls are in an age now, 13 and 15 where it's not as exciting as it was when they were eight and nine. But they still really like it. Like getting away into the forest, off the screens and just.
Just being amongst the trees and having that lake there, it's just soul enhancing. It's something that I crave and I want to move. I wanna live in that way. So that's kind of Coral and I's retirement plan. I think we'll definitely be living out there at some stage and hopefully using it as a bit of a holiday pad in the meantime. Oh, amazing. And I just love that for your girls to be living this with you because you're doing everything, your role modeling.
behavior that they'll be able to, that is part of their DNA basically. So despite the fact that they are still just teenagers now, like it's the same thing that we were talking about before, like they'll look back and they'll there'll be so many things that they've learned it'll take on into their adulthood and then you know affect change later and I just think it's awesome.
Yeah, cool. Thanks. Yeah, hopefully that's right. We'll see. We'll see. Remains to be seen. We'll see, yeah. Hey Brad, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it this afternoon and I'd actually love to have you back on and actually talk physio. Like I think that there'd be loads of things that we can talk about physio-wise at some point. So we will put links to your website, your Instagram and your book in the show notes because you're a coach as well, aren't you?
Yeah, yeah, I coach athletes, triathletes, and ultra runners, and marathon runners. Amazing. And wellness warriors. So yeah. Yeah. You cover the whole gamut. That's brilliant. All right, Brad, have a great rest of your afternoon. Thanks so much.
Alrighty team, hopefully you really enjoyed that conversation. So great to chat to Brad and it's so funny because people often pit us against each other because we're both wellness advocates, but as you know, I'm an advocate of eating meat and Brad is not. But you know, we've got so much more in common than what we do differ on. And the more you have people in this space talking around similar themes, just the more of an impact you can have. You can create sort of fires if you openly spat online about certain things.
but ultimately when you're singing from the same song sheet of just actually wanting to help people you'll notice that in loads of areas people are much more aligned than not. Okay team next week on the podcast I speak to Nicole Laurent about mental health in the brain and a ketogenic diet. Brilliant conversation you're not going to want to miss that. Until then though you can catch me over on Instagram, threads and Twitter @mikkiwilliden,
head to my website mikkiwilliden.com, you can book a one-on-one call with me. Or sign up to one of my meal plans like Mondays Matter. All right team, you have a great day. See you soon.