Star Trek and the Circle Method: A Game-Changing Roadmap for Sobriety & Breaking Bad Habits

🎙️ Episode 16 - Star Trek and the Circle Method: A Game-Changing Roadmap for Sobriety & Breaking Bad Habits

In this episode of the Lion Counseling Podcast, Mark Odland (Licensed Therapist & EMDR specialist) and Zack Carter (Counselor & Coach) reveal a practical, battle-tested roadmap to help men break free from addiction, compulsive habits, and self-sabotaging patterns.

Using a simple yet powerful visual framework known as "The Circle Sheet"—borrowed from 12-step traditions and infused with a healthy dose of Star Trek wisdom—Zack walks you through how to create your own personal sobriety plan. Whether you’re battling porn addiction, over-drinking, procrastination, emotional reactivity, or something else, this episode gives you tools that are simple, actionable, and grounded in both science and experience.

🔥 What You’ll Learn:

• What the Outer, Middle, and Inner Circles mean and how they relate to relapse cycles
• The psychology of triggers (a.k.a. “Yellow Alert”) and how to interrupt them
• How to replace destructive habits with purposeful actions
• Why identifying your personal heroes and values changes your recovery trajectory
• The surprising link between addiction and isolation—and how connection heals

Zack also shares his own method for integrating the "Pareto Principle (80/20 Rule)" into your recovery game plan—helping you identify the 2 most effective actions that keep you mentally and emotionally strong.

Oh, and yes… there’s plenty of nerdy Star Trek humor, Photon Torpedoes, and a spontaneous side mission to Comic Con.

🧠 Who This Is For:

• Men struggling with addiction, compulsive behavior, or bad habits
• Husbands, fathers, leaders, and entrepreneurs seeking freedom and clarity
• Fans of Jordan Peterson, Jocko Willink, or Dave Ramsey seeking faith-informed tools for healing
• Anyone curious about how EMDR and 12-step principles can work together for lasting growth

Click here to watch a video of this episode.’

🔗 Ready to Escape the Cage?
Book a free 30-minute consultation or learn more about therapy and coaching for men at:
👉 https://www.escapethecagenow.com

Creators and Guests

Host

Mark Odland

Founder of Lion Counseling, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, Certified EMDR Therapist

Host

Zack Carter

Zack Carter is a Counselor and Coach with Lion Counseling LLC.

What is Lion Counseling Podcast?

The Lion Counseling Podcast helps men escape the cages that hold them back and become the Lions they were created to be. It exists to help men obtain success, purpose, happiness, and peace in their career and personal lives. The podcast is hosted by the founder of Lion Counseling, Mark Odland (Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and Certified EMDR Therapist), and Zack Carter (Counselor and Coach with Lion Counseling). In their podcasts, they address a variety of topics relevant to men, including: mental health, relationships, masculinity, faith, success, business, and self-improvement.

Zack Carter: 00:00

And then we have that middle circle, that red circle, that's that red alert. You're you're in it now, man. You're doing it. And so we're gonna go through how to fill this out and how to work on this. But before we do, Mark, did you have any questions, comments, concerns?

Mark Odland: 00:14

You know, I just you had me at Photon Torpedo. Don't hang out, then you brought me back in.

Zack Carter: 00:21

Don't make me speak Klingon, bro. Dude. Can't speak Klingon. Can't. I can't.

Mark Odland: 00:31

I'm not sure if you're joking or not.

Zack Carter: 00:32

I can't. No. I no. I I I'm like I'm like mid tier dork. Like, I don't I I can't quite get myself to, like, showing up to Comic Con dressed up.

Zack Carter: 00:43

I'm not quite there, but, like, there's definitely a piece of me that wants to be that kind of person. Well,

Mark Odland: 00:50

we could do a live show, a live stream from Comic Con at some point.

Zack Carter: 00:54

Don't do it to me, man. And we could

Mark Odland: 00:57

do mental health assessments on the fly, judging

Zack Carter: 00:59

by costumes.

Mark Odland: 01:01

No. Like,

Zack Carter: 01:01

yep. Oh,

Mark Odland: 01:03

no. Impression. Oh, no.

Zack Carter: 01:05

Daddy issues.

Mark Odland: 01:06

No. Oh, no. Oh, no. We

Zack Carter: 01:09

might do an episode around Batman villains, and we can kinda do that. So this you're you're you're you're joking, but we could we could do that,

Mark Odland: 01:17

sort of.

Song Intro: 01:17

The cage now. Be the lion you was destined to be. Born ready for the war, now my effort is free. The level's been set, time to wrestle the beast. Testing my g is getting heavy indeed.

Song Intro: 01:30

The struggle I embrace now, never retreat. I see the test as a blessing indeed.

Mark Odland: 01:43

Welcome to Lion Counseling Podcast. I'm Mark Godland, founder of Lion Counseling and certified EMDR therapist.

Zack Carter: 01:50

And I'm Zach Carter, counselor and coach.

Mark Odland: 01:53

And our mission is to help men to break free, to heal deep, and become the lions they were created to be. Today, we're gonna teach you how to create a road map for sobriety. And make sure to hang on to the end because Zach's got some practical takeaways that you can put into practice right away. If you're looking for support, check us out at escapethecagenow.com, and we've got a challenge for you right away. Zach here, he doesn't think that you guys are capable of subscribing within the next three seconds.

Mark Odland: 02:23

No. He just has his doubts.

Zack Carter: 02:25

It's a physical impossibility. Yes. Physical impossibility to do it within three

Mark Odland: 02:29

some credit. Give these guys

Zack Carter: 02:31

these are actually men.

Mark Odland: 02:32

They're listening. One, time's up. We'll see what happened. Okay. We'll find

Zack Carter: 02:37

out. Alright. They're like, wait. I was distracted.

Mark Odland: 02:43

Alright. Alright. On that note, now that we're over that that genius ploy to to get more subscribers, you know, and all That's not

Zack Carter: 02:50

what we're doing.

Mark Odland: 02:51

Does help us. We're not doing that. We're No. We're not. Psychology.

Zack Carter: 02:55

We're not manipulating. No. We're not We would never do that. Never. Never.

Zack Carter: 03:00

We're counselors and

Mark Odland: 03:01

therapy therapists. We don't do that kind of thing.

Zack Carter: 03:03

We're professionals. Yes. We have we have no shame.

Mark Odland: 03:09

Joking aside, it does help us grow our channel. And we've got good steam, but we're we're still building. And we really appreciate you guys supporting. So with that being said, let's get into it. Zach.

Mark Odland: 03:21

Sobriety, that that's that's a something that's on most guys' minds even if they don't quote unquote have a a full blown addiction, most of us struggle with bad habits, for lack of a better term, that that get in the way of us being who we wanna be. And building a a road map for success to try to eliminate or at least reduce those behaviors seems like it'd be pretty helpful.

Zack Carter: 03:46

Yeah. Absolutely. And this is this is kinda my my bread and butter, my passion is helping guys Yep. With bad habits, with addictions. And so, you know, this is the second video we've done around it, and it works really nicely with the last video we did.

Zack Carter: 03:59

And and now we're getting a little bit more practical. We're we're giving the tool even more tools to help if you're out there and you're struggling with addictive pattern or a bad habit. So I do an activity with my clients. It's called the circle sheet. It's based in the 12 step program.

Zack Carter: 04:16

They they they originally created the circle sheet and so I've borrowed it and I use it oftentimes with my with my clients. And so to kinda like set the stage Okay. Of the circle sheet, I'm going to royally dork out right now. So growing up, I watched a lot of Star Trek. Too much Star Trek probably, if we're being honest.

Mark Odland: 04:40

You've got that look, Zach.

Mark Odland: 04:42

Like you watch

Zack Carter: 04:42

Star Trek. I do. I do have that look. Yes. And I've given this example probably a 100 times with lots of different clients.

Zack Carter: 04:52

And whenever I ask, did you grow up watching Star Trek? 98% of the time, they say no. To which point, I die inside a little bit. I'm like, well, in spite of that, I'm moving forward with this with this example. I don't care what you like.

Zack Carter: 05:13

This is what I like. So this is what we're talking about.

Song Intro: 05:14

It's not about

Mark Odland: 05:15

the client. It's about us.

Zack Carter: 05:17

That's right. So this is yet again me forcing Star Trek upon people. So, viewer, you are welcome. So before we even look at the the circle sheet, how does this tie in with Star Trek? So when when you're watching Star Trek, whichever series you like or even the movies.

Zack Carter: 05:41

Right? They hop in their ship. They're flying through space, going where no man has gone before. Right? And seeking out new life and new civilization.

Zack Carter: 05:50

Right? And so oftentimes in an episode, the ships like flying through space. Life is good. They're doing their science thing. And a ship will come up in the distance.

Zack Carter: 05:58

They'll see a ship far away. And so oftentimes they don't know if the ship in the distance is friend or foe. Is this an enemy or is this a buddy of ours? You know, potential buddy of ours. Right?

Zack Carter: 06:10

So the captain will say to the ensign, raise the yellow alert. Okay? And so suddenly across the whole ship these yellow lights start to flash yellow. Right? That basically just lets everyone know, hey, we're not in a battle.

Zack Carter: 06:26

We're not in the thick of it quite yet, but just kinda like be alert. Like, something bad could happen or it could it could be fine. Right? And so lights are flashing. If they pull up on that other ship and the other ship raises their phasers or their photon torpedoes, then suddenly the captain looks at the Ensign and says, Ensign raised the red alert.

Zack Carter: 06:47

Right? So now they're in battle. Now they've got a problem. Right? And so the sheet we're gonna go through I'll pull it up real quick so we can all see it.

Zack Carter: 06:55

So the sheet we're gonna go through is is kinda like this analogy where we have our outer circle. The outer circle is going where no man's gone before, seeking new life civilizations. Right? So this is purpose. You living the kind of life you wanna live.

Zack Carter: 07:13

You doing healthy activities that keep you away from that addictive pattern. The middle circle is gonna be like that yellow alert that I described that like you're not acting out, but you're setting yourself up to potentially act out. And then we have that middle circle, that red circle, that's that red alert. You're you're in it now, man. You're doing it.

Zack Carter: 07:34

And so we're gonna go through how to fill this out and how to work on this. But before we do, Mark, did you have any questions, comments, concerns?

Mark Odland: 07:43

You know, I just you had me at Photon Torpedo. Was zoning out and then you brought me back in.

Zack Carter: 07:50

Don't make me speak Klingon, bro. Dude. I can't speak Klingon.

Mark Odland: 07:58

Can't. I can't. I'm not sure if you're joking or not.

Zack Carter: 08:01

I can't. No. I no. I I I'm like I'm like mid tier dork. Like I don't I I can't quite get myself to like showing up to Comic Con dressed up.

Zack Carter: 08:12

I'm not quite there, but like there's definitely a piece of me that wants to be that kind of person.

Mark Odland: 08:19

Well, we could do a live show, a live stream from Comic Con at some point.

Zack Carter: 08:23

Don't do it, Tony. And and we could do

Mark Odland: 08:25

mental health assessments on the fly.

Zack Carter: 08:27

Judging by Oh, costumes.

Mark Odland: 08:29

No. Yep.

Mark Odland: 08:31

Oh, Depression. Oh, no.

Mark Odland: 08:33

Daddy issues.

Mark Odland: 08:34

No. Oh, no. Oh, no.

Zack Carter: 08:37

We might do an episode around Batman villains and we can kinda do that. That is you're you're you're but we could we could do that, sort of. But yeah, man. It's good. No.

Zack Carter: 08:50

I I I think

Mark Odland: 08:50

this is a really helpful tool. Mhmm. And I love I mean, that yellow alert idea is is really stuck with me now, and it it it kinda helps me conceptualize this. So I appreciate it. It.

Zack Carter: 09:01

Perfect. Well, so let let's go through each of the sections. We've we've got our graph up here in the middle, and let let's go through the different sections. And and if you were a client of mine, how would I work with you? So Right.

Zack Carter: 09:12

If you take out a piece of paper, you're gonna do it horizontally, you're gonna, you know, draw your circles, right? And so pause the video, do that real quick, and then we'll we'll start to fill it out. So you've got your circles going, you got your outer circle, your middle circle, your inner circle. Okay? Give yourself enough room to write.

Zack Carter: 09:32

What I recommend starting with is writing out 10 things that are healthy for you to do. Okay? So these, you know, in the example we have in the middle, we have things like exercise, meditation, calling your sponsor, writing in a journal, going to a meeting, right, going to a sobriety meeting. These are great. Mark, do you have things that you tend to recommend to clients as healthy activities that maybe they could do to keep them from moving into that yellow region?

Mark Odland: 10:00

Yeah, I mean, some of the basics, right? I mean, and these are right on your list there. I mean, activity, relationships, know, people have, you know, interesting things that calm them down that might be quirky to them, right? For one guy, might be going for a bike ride for another client, like some more female clients like, oh, it's just taking a bubble bath or like, you know, lighting a candle, reading a good book, you know, whatever, there's lots of things. And I think we forget sometimes that if we have a go to list and promise ourselves that like, hey, I'm just gonna work this list.

Mark Odland: 10:38

If I go for my walk, I call my friend, if I read the book and I'm still feeling a certain way, I'm going to keep working through my list. And so part of it is that commitment to yourself that like, I have the tools. Let's just stay in this outer ring and far gone, right?

Zack Carter: 10:59

Perfect. Perfect. Well, so if you're listening and you've made your list of 10 things, right? So like Mark said, relationships, hobbies, exercise, the variety of things that you can do. So you make your list.

Zack Carter: 11:15

What we want to do is we want to circle the top two. Why? Well, there's a principle called the eightytwenty rule, also known as the Pareto principle. And essentially the Pareto principle says that, you know, 20% of a certain population or a certain activity is going to produce 80% of the benefits. So, for instance, if you are a business owner, 20% of your clients are going to bring about 80% of the reward.

Zack Carter: 11:50

You're going see it in society, 20% of the people make 80% of the money. You know, and on your list, if you've listed out 10 things, this makes the math easy. So you pick two things and those two things are going to do 80% of the work for you, right? Maybe you're a person who really loves exercise and you're like, all right, I got to make sure I'm exercising. That's going to keep me healthy.

Zack Carter: 12:14

Some of you are like, I hate exercise. Like I hate it, right? And so like maybe it's a hobby for you. Maybe it's hanging out with a spouse. Maybe it's hanging out friends.

Zack Carter: 12:23

Maybe it's going to your meetings. Maybe it's calling someone, right? And so you pick the two things that are gonna do 80% of the work for you, but then you have the other eight things to kind of fill in that last bit to keep you sober, to keep you away from these problems, right? Now with this sheet, I encourage people to understand that this is an organic activity, that over time you add things, right? Sure.

Zack Carter: 12:50

I've got some people that have twenty, thirty, 40 things, right? And so you can continue to add things as you notice them over time, but starting with 10 is perfect. Any last thoughts before we move to the middle circle?

Mark Odland: 13:03

No, bring it on Zach. Let's let's hear it.

Zack Carter: 13:06

Cool. So middle circle is essentially the triggers. Like, what are the things that cause you to act out? So famously, 12 step programs will talk about HALT, hungry, angry, lonely, tired. And so one of if one of those resonates with you, write those down.

Zack Carter: 13:22

Isolation is big. Right? So there's a guy named Doctor. Doug Weiss who is an expert in pornography addiction. He says the opposite of addiction is connection.

Zack Carter: 13:35

And I think that's a really, really good way of thinking about it. And so notice, are you usually isolated when you're doing these activities? For some people, no. Some people, they do their addictive patterns in groups, But oftentimes for many people, it's a way to isolate. So is it isolation?

Zack Carter: 13:53

Is it procrastination? Is it stress? Is it loneliness? Like just there can be a variety of things to start paying attention to your life and say like, when I act out, what was happening in my life? Was work stressful?

Zack Carter: 14:06

Was I in a fight with my wife? Was I bored because I didn't have enough things to do that day? And so begin to list all the things in this in this yellow section, in this middle circle. Nice. Mark, let me throw it to you.

Mark Odland: 14:20

Yeah, no, that seems really helpful just to kind of know where, I mean, you're talking about creating a roadmap and in a way this this these kind of concentric circles are a way to kind of figure out where you are in the map, where you are in the journey. Are you how are you getting closer to, you know, falling in to that desire and in a way that feels good in the moment, but then later you feel guilty, feel frustrated, like here, I did it again.

Zack Carter: 14:51

And then

Mark Odland: 14:51

there can be ramifications for our health for our relationships with those behaviors. Right. But it just seems like for a lot of the guys I work with, you know, when it comes to addictive behavior and bad habits, there can be like an almost like a trance like autopilot quality to once they get to a certain point, whatever free will they felt like they had seems to like go out the window. And then they're just kind of their brain is hijacking the system. And it's hard at that point to say no to things.

Mark Odland: 15:26

And so it's almost like I get the sense by thinking about these circles, and being more self aware of where you're at on that roadmap. It's, it's almost like you have a fighting chance to move a new direction before you've kind of fall off the cliff, basically.

Zack Carter: 15:43

Exactly. Exactly. And so as we're moving in, so the last one is the center circle is acting out. So that's the easy one if you're listening to this, whatever bad habit, whatever addictive pattern that you may have, just plug that into that middle circle. So it's exactly right, Mark.

Zack Carter: 16:01

So like you said, that outer circle, what is the purpose of that? Well, you do these things to stay out of the yellow circle, the middle circle. Right. Right? If you then move into that middle circle, you have the outer circle activities that help to pull you out of that yellow circle.

Zack Carter: 16:19

Right? And so that's exactly right, Mark. So the roadmap is, hey, we're staying away from that center circle, right? In Star Trek, we're trying to stay away from that red alert, man. We're trying to stay away from battle.

Zack Carter: 16:29

Right? And so like, what do we got to do to move further and further away? And if we start to notice that we're moving closer towards it, right, we got our healthy activities to begin to move ourselves back out. We've got one more thing to cover that is my addition to the circle sheet that I think people are gonna enjoy. But before I do that, Mark, I think you had a couple words to say.

Mark Odland: 16:55

Yeah. I mean, I would just say as we're kinda closing down on our time, you've enjoyed our conversation, just know that we're always here for a free consult. We provide that for guys who are interested in getting some more support at escapethecagenow.com. And if you've enjoyed this conversation, free to comment. You have my permission to unleash yourself on Zach with your favorite part of Star Trek or or or how offended you were, that he didn't think you could subscribe by the by in three seconds, let alone by the end of the the podcast.

Mark Odland: 17:32

So prove him wrong. Prove him wrong. That's what I have to say.

Zack Carter: 17:36

Right. And I I will comment back. So I

Mark Odland: 17:41

think the only thing I'd say too, Zach, would it be fair to say that this last thing that you're gonna provide would be something that could help the listener to live long and prosper?

Zack Carter: 17:50

Oh my gosh, man. I feel so icky. I've had clients tell me that and I'm like, how do we define icky? We define it by how I feel right now. So, yeah, so kind of I think a nice addition to this, and it's it's gonna kinda if it feels kinda Jordan Peterson esque, it's because I probably stole it from Jordan Peterson, but I'm gonna take credit for it.

Zack Carter: 18:17

So what you're gonna do outside of the circle is you're gonna have a little category up at the top and you're gonna put heroes and in parentheses, why. Okay? What I encourage you to do is to think through the different people that you're drawn to for some reason. So it can be a family member, like it could be your dad, It could be an uncle. It could be a brother.

Zack Carter: 18:41

It could also be famous people. Like if you're watching, I know Mark has talked about Jocko Willink a lot. We've talked about Jordan Peterson. I have pastors like Timothy Keller who, you know, I've I've looked up to and learned from. So you you make your list of people.

Zack Carter: 18:57

It also they they don't also don't have to be real life people. They can also be Batman. Like

Mark Odland: 19:03

Right. Yeah.

Zack Carter: 19:04

You know? And why are you drawn to Batman? Why are you John we we had a video on John Wick. Why are we, like, drawn to John Wick? Like, what is that about?

Zack Carter: 19:11

Right. Right? And so you list the people that you look up to in some way and then you ask yourself why. So take out all the elements that you don't like about them, that you may disagree with them on their politics, you may disagree with them on their morals, but like, what is it that draws you to that person? Is it that they're good with business?

Zack Carter: 19:27

Is it that they are very moral? Is it their spiritual life? Is it they're a good father or good family member? Right? And so you ask yourself, why am I drawn to them and how did they get that way?

Zack Carter: 19:41

Right? So if you're a fan of Jordan Peterson, he's got a book list. He's like, if you want to know the stuff I know, here's the list of books. Okay. So now we take that book list and we put it in our outer circle activities, right?

Zack Carter: 19:54

So now you got a new activity. Read Jordan Peterson's book list. If it's a spiritual person and they say, well, the way that I got the spiritual is I pray in the morning for fifteen minutes, I pray at night for fifteen minutes, I make sure I'm reading at least a verse a day. You're like, okay, I'm gonna set that goal for myself. And you put in that outer activity, right?

Zack Carter: 20:12

And so you figure out what are the steps that this person became the way they are, this person you look up to, and now you have additional things to put in your outer circle activities. Okay? So what you're gonna do, right now, if you're looking to practice this, you're gonna get that piece of paper, a blank piece of paper, turn it horizontal, you're gonna draw your circles, you're gonna make your list of healthy activities, the triggers that could lead you to addictive patterns, you're gonna list your addictive patterns in the middle. And then on the outside, you're gonna list your heroes, why they're your heroes and how did they get there. Right?

Zack Carter: 20:44

And then you can continue to fill in that outer circle. There you have it.

Mark Odland: 20:49

That's cool. I love it. Zach, thank you so much for that's such a helpful, practical way to think about. Think about addiction, bad habits, building a roadmap, creating a roadmap to hopefully stay out of the yellow alert and then the red alert and to hopefully just live a live a happier, more peaceful, more purposeful life. I mean, that's what it comes down to right for for what we do, why we do it.

Mark Odland: 21:15

It just is such a joy to see other other brothers or fellow lions out there who are just wanting to be better husbands, better dads, leaders. And these little infusions of tactical wisdom that we try to throw out there every Tuesday. We just hope it's a blessing to you guys and hope you have a great week. Thanks again, Zach.

Zack Carter: 21:37

Sure thing. All right, bye everybody.