Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
A daily podcast delving into the biggest stories of the day throughout the sports betting and igaming sector.
Charlie Horner (00:09.438)
The debate around financial risk assessments is heating up as the Bettin and Gaming Council is leaving nothing off the table in its opposition to UK Gambling Commission's new measures. The DCMS's Select Committee also has questions. And in other news, the Social Markets Foundation has more recommendations for the UK gambling sector and fit in its new proposals around incoming Prime Minister Andy Burnham's devolution project. So on today's iGaming Daily, we played.
Ted Orme-Claye (00:09.56)
debate around financial risk assessments is heat-filled as the better-enabled council is leaving nothing off the table in its opposition to UK gambling commissions with new measures. The DCMSE Select Committee also has questions, and in other news, Social Market Foundation has more recommendations for UK gambling sets left and fits in its group proposals around the incoming Prime Minister and the Bernese devolution project. So on today's iGaming Daily, complete one regular day.
Charlie Horner (00:37.102)
One regular day of UK gambling. That's all we ask. Will it ever happen? Welcome back to iGaming Daily, supported by Optimove, the creator of positionless marketing and the number one player engagement solution for sports betting and iGaming operators. I'm Charlie Horner and today to dissect all of this with me is SBC News editor Ted Ormclay. Ted, how's things?
Ted Orme-Claye (00:38.486)
of UK gambling. That's all we know. Will it ever happen? Welcome back to I Get UK,
Ted Orme-Claye (00:53.038)
All of this is especially news editor Ted on the play. Ted, how's things? Pretty good. Thank you, Charlie. Yeah, back on for the second time in a row. Yeah, like I said, it's an interesting question. You pose the start of will we ever see a normal day for the industry in the UK? My answer to that is not anytime soon. Good. That's a nice theory to start. The biggest new story of the week last week.
Charlie Horner (01:14.034)
Good. Good. That's a nice cheery note for us to to start on. look, w it was the biggest news story of the week last week and it's rumbling on as we thought it might do, but the financial risk assessments storyline is not over and the Bettett and Gaming Council is just one of many parties to outline its opposition to the the the rollout of the checks. I guess the fur the first question is, Ted, what what's the premise of the BGC's opposition to
Ted Orme-Claye (01:46.609)
It's not really anything new in this sense, you know the betting and gaming council
Charlie Horner (01:49.164)
And you know, the betting and gaming council
Ted Orme-Claye (01:51.759)
which our listeners may be unaware is the main trade body for UK regulated betting. A lot of the country's biggest betting companies are part of it. It also calls itself a standards body for enforcing certain best practices and things like that. The BGC has been long opposed to these affordability checks going way back to the early stages of the gambling act review in like late, very, very late 2020 and early 2021.
Charlie Horner (01:55.403)
For UK regulated betting, but they'll do a lot of the country's biggest betting companies are part of it. it also calls itself a standards body for enforcing certain best practices and things like that. The BGC's been long opposed to these affordability checks, going way back to the early stages of the gambling act review in like late, very, very late 2020 and early 2021.
Ted Orme-Claye (02:20.95)
Financial risk assessments are one of the proposed solutions to the UK's affordability problem, the debate around affordability that has been going on in this country, but again, since that gambling act review started five odd years ago. The BGC and also
Charlie Horner (02:20.99)
Financial risk assessments are one of the proposed solutions to the UK's affordability pro like problem. Th the debate around affordability that has been going on in this country, well again since that gambling act review started five five odd years ago.
The the the BGC and also its kind of historic allies in the in the horse racing, in the sport of horse racing, have been arguing for a while that it will be detrimental to the regulated market, that it that they will push customers away from the from the regulated market without being too overly intrusive. The argument is that people are not going to want to share their bank statements and and personal details around financial yeah, f finances and so on.
Ted Orme-Claye (02:46.51)
It's kind of historic allies in the the horse racing in the sport of horse racing Have been arguing for a while that it will be detrimental to the regulated market that it that they will Push customers away from the from the regulated market by being too overly intrusive the argument is that people are not going to want to share their bank statements and and personal details around financial finances and so on
Charlie Horner (03:12.576)
with with bookmakers or with any other major sort of third party for that matter and then they will just simply go to online companies that don't offer that where they which and and which also don't have you know we're very familiar with the argument and you know black market illegal gambling companies who don't have protections in general you know the the the white paper on the gambling act review was published in April two thousand and twenty three as I said in the lead up to that the
Ted Orme-Claye (03:13.13)
with bookmakers or with any other major third party for that matter and that they will just simply go to online companies that don't offer that and which also don't have, we're very familiar with the argument and black market illegal gambling companies who don't have protections in general. The white paper on the gambling act review was published in April 2023.
As I said in the lead up to that, the topic of affordability was debated very heavily. The white paper's response to this was to suggest what were then called finance risk checks. The commission has been very adamant over the years that they don't like these being called affordability checks. That's something that a lot of opponents of them, that's the term that tends to get used. These checks have now kind of been divided into two really. You've got the financial vulnerability checks, which are the
Charlie Horner (03:42.649)
The topic of affordability was debated very heavily. The the the white paper's response to this was to suggest what were then called finance risk checks. the commission has been very adamant over the years that these aren't that they don't like these being called affordability checks. That's something that a lot of opponents of them that that's the term that tends to get used. These checks have now kind of been divided into two, really. You've got the financial vulnerability checks, which are the the more light-touch ones. I think they're in place.
Ted Orme-Claye (04:09.74)
The more light touch ones, I think they're implemented after a customer has had a net loss of 150 pounds in 30 days and they just use public data, like, you know, details around bankruptcy and things like that. And then, much more easy going.
Charlie Horner (04:12.352)
Implemented after a customer has had a net loss of £150 in 30 days, and they just use public data, like you know, any details around bankruptcy and things like that. and and and then, yeah, much more easygoing. The financial risk assessments have still not been implemented, they're much more stringent, they're the ones that will require people to share data via credit reference ratings agencies, reference agencies, and so on. the commission was meant to make.
Ted Orme-Claye (04:28.706)
The financial risk assessments have still not been implemented. They're much more stringent. They're the ones that will require people to share data via credit ratings agencies, reference agencies, and so on. The commission was meant to make a decision on when to implement these about two months ago, I think, but then delayed that. It has now said that it definitively has a roadmap to roll these out.
Charlie Horner (04:42.312)
decision on when to meant to on when to implement these about two months ago I think but then delayed that it has now said that it is definitively has a roadmap to roll these out the BGC said two months ago that it was looking at it you know it it it was still very very much post them was even considering potentially legal action and it seems that they that they they may still have that on the agenda. The commission has said here's what we're going to
Ted Orme-Claye (04:54.99)
The BGC said two months ago that it was looking at it, you know, it was still very, very much opposed to them, even considering potentially legal action. And it seems that they may still have that on the agenda. Now the commission has said, here's what we're going to do. But as we're going to discuss, the BGC isn't the only one who's got some concerns about these FRAs.
Charlie Horner (05:12.272)
But as we're going to discuss, the BGC isn't the only one who's got some concerns about these these FRAs. Yeah, we we we should say as well that the FRAs are gonna be implemented in in a phased approach and I think they're designed to to be triggered as as little as possible, particularly to begin with, in terms of the thresholds are quite high to to trigger a an FRA. And the the gambling commission would also say that
Ted Orme-Claye (05:21.79)
FRA are going to be a phased approach. They're designed to be triggered as little as possible, particularly to begin with, in terms of the thresholds are going to trigger an FRA. And the Gatlin Commission would also say that they are designed to be as frictionless as possible. We can debate that as well. You mentioned that the...
Charlie Horner (05:41.235)
They are designed to be as frictionless as possible. we c we can debate that as well. you mentioned there, Ted, that the BGC's considering legal action. I know it's it's sort of speculative at this point because th they've just said nothing's off the table and that's just indicative of legal action. But that would be a significant move. The BGC, as w as we said, are not the only body or not the only party who are opposed to
FRAs. Even the DCMS's Select Committee is is sort of in opposition. Or th they've at least written a letter asking the the gambling commission to to clear things up. What were the concerns that the committee had? And we should say actually that the Select Committee are are groups of backbench MPs who aren't part of the government. They're cross body cross body group of MPs who are who are there to sort of scrutinize the the
Ted Orme-Claye (06:20.366)
asking the Gatwick Commission to clear things up. What were the concerns that the committee had? And we should say actually that the Select Committee are groups of Black Bench MPs who are part of the government, they're cross-body, cross-body group of MPs who were there to sort of scrutinise each government department. that's the nature of what the committee does. What are the concerns that the committee has today?
Charlie Horner (06:40.336)
each government department. So that that's the the nature of what a select committee does. What what are the concerns that the committee has, Ted? So I think they they're kind of they've they've echoed to an extent some of the concerns set out by the by the by the industry itself, by horse racing and also by very interestingly by some advocates for gambling reform.
Ted Orme-Claye (06:48.642)
So I think they've echoed to an extent some of the concerns set out by the industry itself, by horse racing, and also by, very interestingly, by some advocates for gambling reform. So obviously, I think we've discussed this on the podcast before, but Dr. James Noyes, who was quite a prominent supporter of measures like affordability,
Charlie Horner (07:04.04)
So obviously w I think we've discussed this on the podcast before but Dr. James Noise who was quite a pr a prominent
supporter of of of measures like affordability checks again you know I know she doesn't refer to him as that but we'll just use a quo collo colloquial term for for a moment. he stepped down from his government role a few months back because he was concerned about the way these FRAs were being rolled out and and and wasn't entirely sure that the the the you know adequate research and so on have been done beforehand. so that's that's a concern that we've seen shared by a lot of different stakeholders in
Ted Orme-Claye (07:14.584)
checks again you know know the Commission doesn't feel something like that but we'll just use a colloquial term for a moment. He stepped down from his government role a few months back because he was concerned about the way these FRAs were being rolled out and wasn't entirely sure that the adequate research and so on had been done beforehand. So that's a concern we've seen shared by lot of different stakeholders in this and I think that's something that the CMS committee might have taken on board.
Charlie Horner (07:40.367)
This and I think that's something that the CMS committee might have taken on board. so the the the the chair of the committee, Dame Caroline Dinyage MP, has set out five questions in a letter to Sarah Gardner, who is the acting CEO of the Gambler Commission. One of those is asking whether the commission is planning on publishing the full data set, evidence base, and methodology that's informed its decision to proceed with the FRA.
Ted Orme-Claye (07:44.688)
So the chair of the committee, Dame Caroline Diniege MP, has set out five questions in a letter to Sarah Gardner, who is the acting CEO of the Gamland Commission. One of those is asking whether the commission is planning on publishing the full data set, evidence base and methodology that's informed its decision to proceed with the FRAs. Obviously that kind of relates to these concerns we've had about...
Charlie Horner (08:10.24)
Obviously that kind of relates to these concerns I've had about whether they've been whether there's a full amount of research behind them, whether we've got a full picture of how it will play out. the the the committee has also asked for an estimate of whether
Ted Orme-Claye (08:14.317)
whether there's a full amount of research behind them, whether we've got a full picture of how it will play out. The committee has also asked for an estimate of whether changes will lead to more or fewer recreational betters being asked to provide documents and other financial information. Obviously that's something that people are concerned.
Charlie Horner (08:31.262)
cha changes will lead to more or fewer recreational bettors being asked to provide documents and other financial information. Obviously that's something that people are concerned concerned about that customers will see these as too intrusive.
Ted Orme-Claye (08:43.175)
Concerned about the customers will see these as too intrusive They have asked for details on the consultations meetings and pilots that were taking place against relating to the idea of want to make sure that this has been fully for album got all the evidence they want to know how the next phase of delivery has been planned and the decision-making involved in that and last but not least
Charlie Horner (08:49.416)
They have asked for details on the consultations, meetings and pilots that have taken place, again sort of relating to the idea of want to make sure that this has been fully thought out and we've got all the evidence. they want to know how the next phase of delivery has been planned and the decision making involved in that. And last but not least, they have asked to be given an idea of how the views of the horse racing sector have been taken into.
Ted Orme-Claye (09:12.033)
they have asked to be given an idea of how the views of the horse racing sector have been taken into account during implementation. I'd imagine that was something that was raised by conservative party MPs on the committee because we've seen as kind of like some political battle lines have been drawn around the gambling sector over the past year, as we discussed a lot last year in the conversations about taxation and so on.
Charlie Horner (09:19.4)
Account during implementation. I'd imagine that was something that was raised by Conservative Party MPs on the committee because we've seen as kind of like some political battle lines have been drawn around the gambling sector over past year, as we discussed a lot last year in the conversations about taxation and so on. The Conservative Party seems to have been positioning itself as a bit of an ally to horse racing. Obviously, the party's always had quite historical links to rural communities and so on, so it might be because of that.
Ted Orme-Claye (09:38.032)
The conservative party seems to have been positioning itself as a bit of an ally to horse racing. Obviously the parties always had quite historical links to rural communities and so on. So it might be because of that. And we did also see during the gambling review, the conservative MPs are often some of the ones who talked most about what's the impact of affordability going to be on horse racing due to the knock on effect of if bookmakers lose money, horse racing loses money.
Charlie Horner (09:49.233)
That and we did also see during the gambling review that conservative MPs are often some of the ones who talk most about w what's the impact of affordability going to be on horse racing due to the knock on effect of if bookmakers lose money, horse racing loses money. so yeah, not I'm not not won't be too surprised if that was to do with if if that if that request regarding horse racing was something that conservative MPs would call for. Although we have also seen a lot of Labour MPs, you know, the the the the Labour
Ted Orme-Claye (10:05.455)
So yeah, I wouldn't be too surprised if that was to do with, if that request regarding horse racing was something the conservative MPs had called for. Although we have also seen a lot of Labour MPs, know, the Labour Party seems to be a bit divided on this because you do get some MPs who have a bit, I guess you could say, like a softer approach to the industry, more open to looking at some of the concerns around it. And then we have others who have been very historically vocal about wanting to see more restrictions on it.
Charlie Horner (10:19.216)
party seems to be a bit divided on it 'cause you do get some MPs who are have a bit I guess you could say like a softer approach to the industry and more open to looking at some of the concerns around it and then we have others who have been very historically vocal about wanting to see more restrictions on it. Mm-hmm. Well I think that that's partly expla explained by the the the result of the last election and the la the Labour Party won a lot of those rural seats that the Conservatives usually would have and
Ted Orme-Claye (10:35.087)
Well, think that's part it, to explain by the result of the last election. The Labour Party won a lot of those royal seats that the Conservatives usually would have. therefore you've got MPs who are forced to represent areas that aren't traditional, like the Highlands, and that's causing a bit of a chasm, would suggest. But with those five questions from the committee, I think you can compare them.
Charlie Horner (10:49.202)
Therefore you have MPs who are are forced to represent areas that aren't traditional Labour heartlands and and that's causing a little bit of a chasm I would suggest. but those those five questions from the committee, I think you can compare corp compartmentalise into two categories. I I guess one is about the openness and transparency, which, you know, analysing the data and wanting to see the full data and then the implementation and
Ted Orme-Claye (11:04.654)
compartmentalizing two categories. guess one is about the openness and transparency which you know, analyze the data and wanting to see the full data and then the implementation and the knock-on effects of that implementation in terms of are we going to protect the horse-riding sector? Are we going to make sure that we don't send a bunch of players to the black market and the illegal gambling sector? So I think those are the two main
Charlie Horner (11:15.29)
the the knock on effects of that implementation in terms of are we going to protect the horse racing sector? Are are we going to make sure that we don't send a bunch of players to the black market and the the illegal gambling sector? so I think I think those are the the two main forms of opposition that we're seeing across the board really. But one thing I can't really help but think is you know th this this issue of affordability or financial risk assessment.
Ted Orme-Claye (11:33.114)
forms of opposition for wasting it across the board really. But one thing I can't really help or think is this issue of affordability or financial risk assessment, it was a key part of the white paper and the review. was included in that government white paper. Therefore, do you think that a rollout with FRA is sort of inevitable and any challenge to that is just pushing back what is already inevitable?
Charlie Horner (11:45.407)
It was it was a key part of the the white paper and and and the review. It was included in that government white paper. Therefore, do you think that the the the rollout of FRA is is sort of inevitable and any challenge to that is just pushing back what is already inevitable? I think some form of them, some form of a
Ted Orme-Claye (12:02.871)
I think some form of some form of affordability measure probably is going to occur. think the thing that the industry wants to do is to push back on the extent of it and try and mitigate the impact of it. think probably a middle ground will need to be found eventually. know, during that gambling act review, a lot of the people calling for reform, calling for reform of UK gambling laws.
Charlie Horner (12:08.024)
is going to occur. I think the thing that the industry wants to do is is to push back on the the the extent of it and try and mitigate the impact of it. I think probably a middle ground will need to be found eventually. You know, during that gambling act review a lot of the the the people calling for reform calling for reform of of UK gambling laws. The affordability issue is very, very central. So really from what I remember the
Ted Orme-Claye (12:30.479)
The affordability issue is very, very central to it. Really, from what I remember, the three biggest talking points during that time was affordability and making sure that there were measures in place to know whether a customer can afford to have placed a bell to gamble or whatever. The second one was marketing and sponsorship, visibility in sports. Again, something we've talked about very extensively. And the third one was looking at research and treatment and how to overhaul that.
Charlie Horner (12:35.506)
three biggest talking points during that time was like the affordability and making sure that there were measures in place to custom to to know whether a customer could afford to to place to bail to gamble or whatever. The second one was marketing and sponsorship visibility and sports, you know, again something we've talked about very extensively. And the third one was in looking at research and treatment and how to overhaul that, you know, which then led to the implementation of the statutory levy. I believe we've also talked about quite a lot on the podcast.
Ted Orme-Claye (12:57.849)
You know, which then led to the implementation of the statutory levy. I believe we've also talked about quite a lot on the podcast. I think, you know, if, if, if the commission wasn't to, to go ahead with the, the white paper recommendation that there's these like financial checks, it's just going to be a talking, a continued talking point. People will be calling for something of it. The industry will always be pushing back. I think it.
Charlie Horner (13:05.44)
I think you know, if if if the commission wasn't to to go ahead with the the white paper recommendation that there's th th of these like financial checks, it's just gonna be a talking a continued talking point. People will be calling for something of it. The industry will always be pushing back. I think it it does it it ju I just don't see how this is gonna go anywhere. I guess the only the only way maybe it could go anywhere would be if these were implemented and
Ted Orme-Claye (13:27.063)
It does, I just don't see how this is going to go anywhere. I guess the only way maybe it could go anywhere would be if these were implemented and it was completely disastrous and that would make the government and the commission think right, we need to take another look at this and yeah, either get rid of them or look at how we can redo it. But at the moment I think it does look like they are quite set on going ahead with it.
Charlie Horner (13:35.393)
was completely disastrous and that would make the government and the commission take think right we need to take another look at this and and yeah either get rid of them or look at how we can redo it. but at the moment I think it does look like they are quite set on on going ahead with it. No, I I totally agree. I think they're they will be implemented in some form in in the coming months.
but I don't think that will close the the debate at all and we'll we'll we'll continue to monitor how that debate is re litigated in the in the months to come. But Ted let's take a quick break and then we'll leave the FRA debate for now and we'll talk about some new proposals from the Social Markets Foundation.
Ted Orme-Claye (13:57.922)
I don't think that will close the debate at all, but we'll continue to monitor how that debate is relitigated in the months to come. But Ted, let's take a quick break and then we'll leave the FRA debate now and we'll talk about some new proposals from the Social Markets Foundation.
Charlie Horner (14:17.618)
Welcome back to iGaming Daily. Now the SMF is no stranger to the gambling sector. The high profile and influential Westminster think tank has claimed that gambling is slipping through the cracks and the early signs of problem gambling are being missed by public health authorities. Now, Ted, I don't think many people would necessarily disagree with that diagnosis and and that identification of a problem. I think
Ted Orme-Claye (14:17.635)
Welcome back to iGames today, now the smf is no stranger to the gambling sector, the high profile and influential Westminster think tank has claimed that gambling is slipping through the cracks and that early signs of problem gambling are being missed by public health authorities. Ted, I don't think many people would necessarily disagree with that diagnosis and that identification of a problem, I think.
that's a reasonable claim. But what is the F &S actually prescribing? What is it recommending that the authorities do to go on top of this? So, you know, I think it's important to note that the Social Market Foundation has been one of the most vocal bodies calling for reforms to UK gambling. Over the past few years, they were very vocal during the Gambling Act review.
Charlie Horner (14:46.29)
That's a a reasonable claim. But what is the SMF actually prescribing and what is it recommending that the authorities do to to get on top of this? So, you know, I think it's important to note that
Charlie Horner (15:07.806)
He's calling for
to UK gambling over the over the past few years they were very vocal during the gambling act review. in fact, you know, relating it back to the topic we just talked about. They've all they've been very vocal supporters of affordability measures and so on. last year as well they were obviously quite notable for probably being the voice that called for the most extensive tax increases on the industry. their proposals were taken up by Gordon Brown, the former Labour Prime Minister.
Ted Orme-Claye (15:15.615)
In fact, relating it back to the topic we just talked about, they've been very vocal supporters of affordability measures and so on. Last year as well, they were obviously quite notable for probably being the voice that called for the most extensive tax increases on the industry. Their proposals were taken up by Gordon Brown, the former Labour Prime Minister, who, he was a big, what's the word I'm looking for?
Charlie Horner (15:39.777)
who he was a big what's the word I'm looking for? I I don't wanna keep saying vogal proponent. I feel like I s I use that phrase far too much.
Ted Orme-Claye (15:44.624)
I don't want to keep saying vocal proponent. feel like I use that phrase far too much. But you know, I'll just say again, he was on those vocal proponents of increasing gambling tax to pay for cutting the two child benefit cap, the welfare cap. That was an SMF proposal. So they're very vocal, very vocal in this. They've also a very vocal proponent of a public health approach to gambling, something that a number of Labour MPs
Charlie Horner (15:50.619)
But you know, I'll just say again, he was on those vocal proponents of of increasing gambling tax to pay for cutting the two child benefit cap, the welfare cap. That was an S SMF proposal. So they're very vocal, very vocal in this. they've also a very vocal proponent of a public health approach to gambling, something that a number of Labour MPs, green MPs as well, are big supporters of.
Ted Orme-Claye (16:13.635)
Green MPs as well are big supporters of. They've set out some recommendations for how they think gambling should be treated similarly to how alcohol abuse, substance abuse and tobacco use are treated, are identified and treated in public health. There's five main points that they've called for. They want NHS England
Charlie Horner (16:17.886)
they've set out some recommendations for how they think gambling should be treated similarly to how alcohol abuse, substance abuse and tobacco use are treated, are identified and treated in in public health. there's five main points that have called for. They want the they want NHS England and the Department of Health and Social Care to ensure there's ex accessible gambling treatment.
Ted Orme-Claye (16:42.819)
and the Department of Health and Social Care to ensure there's accessible gambling treatment nationwide. I guess this is something that actually those departments are already working on because of, know, we mentioned the statutory levy earlier. They're taking on very important functions within that and are deciding on where money from the gambling statutory levy should go. The NHS is taking on a lot more responsibility on that regard.
Charlie Horner (16:47.68)
Treatment nationwide. I guess this is something that actually those departments are already working on because of you know we mentioned the statutory levy earlier. They're taking on very important functions within and they're deciding on where where different where money from the gambling statutory levy should go. the NHS is taking on a lot more responsibility on that regard. secondly, the SMF is arguing that questions on gambling should be included in patient questionnaires as standard of it.
Ted Orme-Claye (17:09.455)
Secondly, the SMF is arguing that questions on gambling should be included in patient questionnaire as a standard, bit like similar to, know, when you'd fill out a form to sign on to a GP, you'd tell them about your weekly alcohol intake or whether you're a smoker or not and if you are a smoker, how much you smoke.
Charlie Horner (17:17.62)
like similar to you know when yeah when you I guess when you'd fill out a a form to sign on to a GP you'd tell them about your weekly alcohol intake or whether you're a smoker or not and how if you are a smoker how much you smoke. they want they would they would like to see a national gambling database created where gathering data from integrated care boards on the current state of gambling harms and then there are two measures that are called for which are to do with local authorities. They would like
Ted Orme-Claye (17:31.524)
They would like to see a national gambling database created, gathering data from integrated care boards on the current state of gambling harms. And then there are two measures they've called for, which are to do with local authorities. They would like to see councils legally mandated to address gambling harm in public health policies. And they would like local authorities to embed gambling prevention as a local health priority.
Charlie Horner (17:47.473)
Like to see councils legally mandated to address gambling gambling harm in public health policies, and they would like local authorities to embed gambling prevention as a local health priority. I think these are quite interesting points because they relate to again another topic we've talked about quite a lot lately, which is the the argument the discussion around local governments and their powers around gambling in the UK. This is something that is related quite often to licensing and the
Ted Orme-Claye (17:59.054)
I think these are quite interesting points because they relate to, again, another topic we've talked about quite a lot lately, which is the discussion around local governments and their powers around gambling in the UK. This is something that is related quite often to licensing and the aim to permit rule where local councils are encouraged to lean more towards permitting a license application for a local gambling venue.
Charlie Horner (18:17.426)
aim to permit rule where
local councils encouraged to to lean more towards permitting a licence application for a local gambling venue rather than rejecting it. there's been a lot of calls again particularly from Labour MPs here for that to be to be to be scrapped. And there's also you know we we've heard a lot of conversations from public health professionals and researchers over the past year or two who are calling for more of like a localized approach to gambling arm and recognition
Ted Orme-Claye (18:28.387)
rather than rejecting it. There's been a lot of calls, again, particularly from Labour MPs here, for that to be scrapped. And there's also, you know, we've heard a lot of conversations from public health professionals and researchers over the past year or two, calling for more of a localised approach to gambling on and recognising the regional differences that you get across the UK with
Charlie Horner (18:50.76)
The regional differences that you get across the UK with how gambling harm manifests itself in different localities. So I think the SMF's calls there are quite topical in that regard, relating to these different discussions. Yeah, it's it's a wide-ranging set of recommendations for changes on both the national and local level. I think that there's there's a you know a
Ted Orme-Claye (18:55.539)
how gambling harm manifest itself in different localities. So I think the SMF's calls there are quite topical in that regard relating to these different discussions.
and that's
I think this is an aspect of communications about the SNF. They're going have to put this report out now. And we've just had confirmation that Andrew Burden will become Prime Minister and Labour leader on Monday after he's secured way more
Charlie Horner (19:18.994)
An aspect of savvy communications about the SMF in in terms of putting this report out now, when we've just had confirmation that Andy Burnham will become Prime Minister and Labour leader on Monday, after he secured way after he secured a vast, vast majority of Labour MPs supporting him to be the next leader. And he's coming in and he's told the the country that he's coming in to devolve a lot of powers to local authorities.
Ted Orme-Claye (19:35.792)
After he took over, the vast majority of Labour support him to be the next leader. And he's coming in and he's told the country that he's coming in to give all the power to local authorities. So do you think that this is a way for the SNI to sway influence with the new bird administration that's going to come in next week or do you think that this is just a part of their approach to how it probably goes?
Charlie Horner (19:48.467)
So do you think that this is a way for the SMF to you know, sway influence with with the new Burnham administration that's gonna come in next week? Or do you think that this is just, you know, a part of their approach to how problem gambling should be tackled? A bit of both really. I mean, I think these are these are opinions that the the SMF has had for quite some time. As I said, you know, last year with like last year and
Ted Orme-Claye (20:05.615)
A bit of both really. mean, I think these are opinions that the SMF has had for quite some time. As I said, know, last year, like last year and going back even further, we've seen a lot of conversations about local government in particular, local authorities and how they deal with gambling harm and their powers relating to the industry and its general operations, general business in their areas.
Charlie Horner (20:17.064)
Going back even further, we've seen a lot of conversations about local government in particular, local authorities, and how how they deal with gambling harm and their powers relating to the the industry and it's s sort of general operations, general business in their areas. So I don't think that's anything particularly new, but it's certainly I think it like I say it's very topical for them and and like how you like what you said, it it may be well timed with Andy Berner.
Ted Orme-Claye (20:35.663)
So I don't think that's anything particularly new, but it's certainly, I think it, like I say, it's very topical for them. like how you, like what you said, it may be well timed with Andy Burnham coming into 10 Downing Street because of this, this, this quite strong viewpoint he's got that we should see more local devolution of powers across the different English regions in particular. Obviously he is, he's a politician with a very deep connection to.
Charlie Horner (20:47.008)
Coming into 10 Downing Street because of this this quite strong viewpoint he's got that we should see more local devolution of powers across the different English regions in particular. Obviously, he is he's a politician with a very deep connection to where we are active from Greater Manchester as the former mayor of the county. and he was you know, if you if we go back quite far here, back to the 2000s, he he had quite a key role at
Ted Orme-Claye (21:03.823)
where we are active from Greater Manchester as the former mayor of the county. And he was, you know, if we go back quite far here, back to the 2000s, he had quite a key role at DCMS at the time when the Blair government was considering kind of setting up a casino sort of strip in Manchester, right, centered around like a big mega casino and then having small ones, the super casino, yeah, that was it.
Charlie Horner (21:16.958)
DCMS at the time when the when when the the Blair government was considering kind of setting up a casino sort of strip in Manchester, right? Centred around like a big mega casino and super casino. Super casino, that was it. Conversations with the team, whether it'd be Manchester or Blackpool, I think were the two big contenders to host that. And he ultimately wasn't, I don't think I don't think Andy Burden was too in favour of that because of his concerns around societal impact. He's also over the past year.
Ted Orme-Claye (21:33.018)
conversations with the team, it be Manchester or Blackpool, I think were the two big contenders to host that. And he ultimately wasn't, I don't think Andy Burnham was too in favour that because of his concerns around societal impacts. He's also over the past year has lent his support quite vocally to the calls I mentioned earlier for a reversal of the AIM to permit rule. He's definitely more in favour of regulating the industry more heavily.
Charlie Horner (21:46.901)
Has lent his his support quite vocally to the the calls I I mentioned earlier for a reversal of the aims to permit rule. he's definitely more in favour of regulating the industry more heav heavily. and yeah that coupled with his his his belief in more power for local government and kind of like de a bit of decentralisation of the way political power in the UK has been structured.
Ted Orme-Claye (22:02.767)
And yeah, that coupled with his belief in more power for local government and kind of like a bit of decentralization of the way political power in the UK has been structured. Because to be fair to him, think he's very right that it's been, know, political power in the UK has been centralised very heavily in London. I think that has had a bit of detrimental impact on the rest of the country on a topic completely unrelated to gambling here.
Charlie Horner (22:16.704)
be fair to me, I think he's very right that it's been you know, you pa political power in the UK has been f centralized very heavily in London. I think that has had a bit of a de detrimental impact on the rest of the country, on a topic completely with related to the angle here. you know, so and and he he's very keen to press ahead with that and I think that will yeah y as a result, yeah, that probably makes SMS proposals quite topical here and they could they could be tapping into something. Mm-hmm. Yeah, look as as Burnham comes into to office next week and he's he's sort of
Ted Orme-Claye (22:30.927)
You so and he's very keen to press ahead with that and I think that will as a result Yeah, that probably makes sms proposals quite topical here and they could they could be tapping into something Yeah, as Bernie said to office next week, he's of a gun on the position, unopposed. From an editorial perspective, Ted, I'm just so eager to see how you view that. Ken's another guy, and Bernie said that he's kind of going to stick to the 2020 format of federal law.
Charlie Horner (22:46.85)
gonna win the leadership unopposed. From an editorial perspective, Ted, I I'm just sort of eager to see how you view that sort of changing of the guard. I think Burnham said that he's kind of gonna stick to the twenty twenty four manifesto. But there will be diversions from it, I'm sure. So from from an editor's perspective, what what are you expecting to see from Burnham's government when it comes to gambling regulation? Do you think he's gonna be influenced by proposals from the SMF or
Ted Orme-Claye (23:01.007)
But there will be guidelines throughout, sure. from an editor's perspective, what do you expect him to see from the government when it comes to gambling regulation? Do think it's going to be influenced by polls from the SNF? Or will gambling regulation even be on his desk when he takes the job? We often think that the gambling is the most important issue because it's most important issue for us. I don't think it's ever that important, does it?
Charlie Horner (23:14.61)
Will gambling regulation even be, you know, on on his desk as he takes the job? You know, w we often think that the gambling is the most important issue because it's the most important issue for us, but politically in the nation, I don't think it tends to be that important, does it? But w wha generally what are you expecting to see?
Ted Orme-Claye (23:30.831)
generally what the US has to see? Yeah, I obviously we talk about it a lot because it's our jobs, right? Yeah, I think that for now he'll probably just stick with what the previous administration's, the KS-TAMA's approach was, which was just to see out the recommendations of the Gambling Act review and get that implemented. As you say, you know, we might deal with it quite a lot, for the country at large...
Charlie Horner (23:36.796)
Yeah. I think
just stick with what the previous administration's the the Kirstarmer's approach was which was just to see out the recommendations of the gambling act review and get that get that implemented. as you say, you know, we might deal with it quite a lot but for the country at large
Ted Orme-Claye (23:58.242)
It's not huge top priority. People are more concerned about general economic growth. Obviously, topics like immigration have been huge talking points at elections for some time. National defence is a really big one at the moment. We've seen some fallout in the Labour government lately about having to move resignations. Just international relations with the EU, climate change. There's a lot of huge issues that are going to be on his agenda that gambling reform will ultimately be secondary to.
Charlie Horner (23:58.266)
It's not a huge top priority. People are more concerned about yeah, just general economic growth. you know, topics like immigration have been huge talking points at elections for some time. National defence is a really big one at the moment. We've seen some fallout in the Labour government lately about that, haven't we? With resignations. Just international relations of the EU, climate change. There's a lot of huge issues that are going to be on his agenda that gambling reform will ultimately be secondary to. So I don't think he's gonna be getting into down.
Ted Orme-Claye (24:25.987)
So I don't think he's going to be getting into Downing Street and that's going to be, you know, top of the list. However, he is very clearly a politician who I think the gambling reform lobby, if we want to refer to it as that, will probably have a sympathetic ear from. So I wouldn't be surprised if he leans towards passing some more regulations or implementing some more restrictions.
Charlie Horner (24:28.22)
Street and that's going to be you know top of the list. However, he is very clearly a politician who I think the the the the the gambling reform lobby if we want to refer to it as that we'll probably have a sympathetic ear from. So I I wouldn't I wouldn't be surprised if he leans towards passing some more regulations or implementing some more restrictions, but that is not that is gonna be far from a top priority for him.
Ted Orme-Claye (24:53.123)
But that is gonna be far from a top priority for him.
Charlie Horner (24:57.746)
Well, I think one thing is for sure. we're not gonna have nothing to write about or nothing to talk about on this podcast because as I said at the top of the show, I don't think we're gonna get one regular day of UK gambling for the foreseeable future. But yeah, we'll we'll see how the Burnham government decides to approach gambling regulation in the weeks and months to come. But for now, Ted, thanks very much for joining me and dissecting all these stories t today. thanks to Optimu for supporting the show as always.
Ted Orme-Claye (25:05.211)
As I said, we're going to get one regular day of UK gambling for the foreseeable future. We'll see how public decides to approach gambling regulation in the weeks and months to come. But for now, Ted, thanks very much for joining me and I've seen all these stories today. Thanks to Optimoo for supporting the show as always and to our listeners. Thanks so much for tuning in to today's episode of iGame Daily and come back tomorrow to keep up to date with all the latest.
Charlie Horner (25:25.887)
And to our listeners, thanks so much for tuning in to today's episode of iGaming Daily and come back tomorrow to keep up to date with all the latest global gambling news.
Ted Orme-Claye (25:33.018)
global completeness.