DH - David Carofano
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[00:00:00] What I do is inconsequential. Why I do what I do is I get to shorten people's journeys every day. What I love about our hospitality industry is that it's our mission to make people feel cared for while on their journeys. Together, we'll explore what hospitality means in the built environment, in business, and in our daily lives.
I'm Dan Ryan, and this is Defining Hospitality.
This podcast is sponsored by Berman Falk Hospitality Group, a design driven furniture manufacturer who specializes in custom case goods and seating for hotel guest rooms.
Dan: Today's guest is a skilled branding and hospitality strategist. He's been in design and branding for nearly 20 years, working on restaurants, hotels, bars, private clubs, and even interactive museum exhibits. He's the director of strategy. And business development at crown creative, ladies and gentlemen.
David Carofano. Welcome, David.
David: Yeah, it's nice to be here. Thanks for having me.
Dan: So to all the listeners out there, [00:01:00] I've spoken to many, many people on this podcast. And, uh, I think what's super cool. I just met David through this podcast and he actually lives around the corner. So I have a new friend. neighbor. Um, it's very exciting up here in the woods and uh, to know someone who's kind of of the same ilk.
So welcome. It's so great to have you here, David.
David: Yeah, it is. It is nice to, uh, some folks, uh, in this area to, to know. And, you know, most of my contacts have always been in New York city or around the world. So, you know, my local contacts are minimal, so it's good to know some people.
Dan: Now been in and around hospitality in various different iterations for nearly 20 years. Um, and now as you're. At crown and focusing a lot on branding and branding is just such an interesting, um, space for me. And I think ascendant within hospitality. I think it's always been there and people talk about brands, but I [00:02:00] think, especially in the independent space, it's becoming more and more critical to the start of a, of a new project, a new development.
Um, In your 20 years of doing this and kind of where you find yourself now, um, what's guided you towards the hospitality side? Like, what do you love about the, what does hospitality mean to you?
David: Yeah. I mean, the hospitality for me is everything, um, in, in every sense of the word, uh, it's hard to pinpoint. Just one thing that I think hospitality is, but I think it's just, it's this collection of things. And I think from a, from a brand perspective, it's such an interesting space to be because branding is not just one thing.
And the same thing. Hospitality is not just one thing. Um, It's the food. Obviously, it's the music. It's the uniforms. It's the, uh, the design. Obviously, it's, uh, you know, everything. It's the service. It's the people. It's the collection of all these things [00:03:00] happening at once to create this experience that. Is intended to make you feel something, um, to make you feel like you're, you know, in the, in the coast of Italy or to make you feel like you are, um, you know, in a farm to table experience. Um, all of these different elements kind of coming together, working harmoniously, uh, to create this experience. So hospitality. Is, is really this collection of different things happening at once in unison and harmony to create something.
Dan: on your career journey, as far as like with your vocation and being involved in the branding, at what point did you, did the light bulb go off for you? And say, Oh, I love hospitality. This is the direction that I want to kind of go off. Or this is the path I want to follow,
David: Yeah. Um, I started working in a restaurant when I was probably 14 years old. I think I was supposed to be 15, but we won't, it was counting. Um, my, [00:04:00] my mother dropped me off at, at a restaurant. It was a, you know, a friend of the family and said, hey, you're going to go work. Um, and uh, I went into the kitchen, didn't know what I was doing. Um, And he sort of took me under his wing and I, and I learned everything there is to know about front and back of house really. And I just sort of fell in love with it. I fell in love with the, the people, the energy, the chaos, the, um, the camaraderie of it, you know, every bit of it. And it was funny. Like, I never really thought of it as a career path. Um, I knew it was something that I loved, but it was always just something I did. Um, yeah. Nobody really ever kind of guided me in a way as like, Hey, like, you could really make a career out of this. Um, you know, so I, I went, I went and did my thing. I went to college. I actually did music for a long time. Uh, and then I decided to go back to school and I went to the, um. School of visual arts, masters in branding. Um, and it was there that, that, that program really changed my life and I will, uh, sing its [00:05:00] praises and, and shamelessly plug it here. Um, it really changed my life and it opened my eyes to, uh, design, to branding, to, um, culture, identifying trends.
Uh, I always say it was sort of a mix of, um. An MFA and an MBA sort of coming together a business strategy, and it really. my eyes to a lot of things, but one of the things that I realized was, you know, we would always do a project or we would always have an assignment. And everything I kept doing was like a hospitality project. It was like a restaurant, or it was like a hotel thing, or it was like everything I did. And one of my professors at the time was, um, knew one of the managing directors at AvroKo And he, he was like, basically, you should really, you know, talk to this person. And, um, You know, this is, seems like it's right up your alley.
When I saw that, what they were doing in hospitality and design, that's when the light bulb really went off for me. And I was like, that's, [00:06:00] that's, that's amazing. Like I can combine these two worlds of hospitality and design and branding. Uh, I don't actually have to work in the restaurant. I could just design the restaurant and, you know, be outside of it.
I thought that was just really amazing. And, you know, that's kind of. You know where I, and I didn't, I didn't work, uh, at Abraco directly after that. It took me a few years to kind of get there, but, um, that's when I realized I was like, this is an amazing space that I really want to be in.
Dan: um, going back to before. What was your decision making process on going to school of visual arts? Like, how did you? Because it sounds like you were surprised once you were there, which is really cool. That's a really awesome moment of discovery. But what was, what was your thinking? What was your state of mind?
What were you doing as you were deciding to go there? Like kind of what, what pushed you towards it or pulled you towards it?
David: Yeah, it really was a little bit surprising when I, when I got there, I [00:07:00] didn't really know what I was getting into. Um, knew I wanted to go back to school, but I didn't know what for. And at the time I was taking some art classes. I was taking some design classes and I, I didn't really want to be a designer.
Like I didn't want to be like a graphic designer. Um, and then I was looking at MBAs and I was like, well, do I want to do the business route and then I, I really just happened to stumble upon this. This program at school of visual arts called the masters in branding. And it just seemed really interesting.
It was, it was really cool. It was really different and innovative. Um, I was the second class to do it.
Dan: Oh, um,
David: of them in the country. Uh, I think there's one in Virginia as well. It's like a similar program, but, uh, yeah, it kind of just took a shot. My wife, uh, really encouraged me to do it.
She was like, just go for it. It seems like this is really up your alley. And, um, Yeah, I kind of didn't really know what I was getting into, to be honest, and so it was a little bit of surprise. But in a good way, [00:08:00] it really changed my life.
Dan: and were you living in New York city at the time?
David: I was living in Westchester.
Dan: And Westchester. Okay. Yeah. Because I used to live right around the corner from there. And I just remember just seeing such awesome people go in and out of SVA. Um, okay. So you were in the second class. And then I guess they had a plan of what of what they wanted this masters of branding to be.
But, um, did you see it evolve? As you were in it and what were, what were some of those light bulb moments that you had once you were, once you were like knee deep and your, your sleeves are rolled up and you're doing the work and the study of a branding.
David: I think it was very, and I sort of tapped into this pretty early on. But to your question, like, it was very intentionally designed, um. Every course, every class, every professor, uh, you know, it was almost like a boot [00:09:00] camp of like real world experience, real life, working in an agency, um, surprises here and there, challenges, projects, tight deadlines, like, You know, it was a year program and it was really intense. Um, at the time I was, I was working, I was actually interning at a, at a, at a company. I would go in like take a nap before class and then go to class for the rest of the evening. Like it was just all out like intense. Um, but there was a few moments in that, in that program. One of the classes was, was at the second half of the year where. was a program, like a class as a program was called a brand called you. And it was really about defining like who you are as a brand and like really tapping into like your strengths, your weaknesses, um, how you present yourself to the world, how you speak. Um, know, there was like really emotional moments, like people breaking down.
And, um, [00:10:00] but it was all like this, like, you know, kind of out of body experience where like, you were just realizing things about yourself and things about the world and how you interacted with people and how you presented yourself. And, uh, Yeah, it was then that I kind of realized, all right, like, I see what they're doing here.
They're like, kind of, kind of break you down to build you back up kind of mentality and, and I, I really appreciated it. Like, I think in some ways it was hard for people, but was a little bit older because I had some years, know, between college and, and, and grad school. So I kind of got it, like I understood, understood like what they were doing and, and I, and I really enjoyed it and really appreciated it.
Dan: And then I always loved those, um, journeys of self discovery when you were figuring out the, the brand of you, what was your biggest kind of breakthrough or realization that you had there? Or, or surprise surprise, breakthrough or realization
David: yeah, there were a lot. I think one of them [00:11:00] was really just to be confident in who you are. Um, really be confident in your abilities. I think one of my, the professor, one of the, uh, the woman who ran the program, Debbie Millman, she said something to me that, that really sort of changed like everything for me.
She, she, she said, I want you to know that you're A lot smarter than you think you are. And it was just like one of those moments that like, I was like, okay, if this person who I respect and really admire is telling me, like, I have so much more to offer Like, why not? Like, why not just go for it and really put myself out there.
And so that was like really a light bulb moment for me too.
Dan: and and who was this person? Give him a shout out.
David: Oh, so yeah, it was Debbie Millman. She was, uh, she's a, you know, designer and strategist and she founded the program and leads the program. And I, I still, I think to this day she still leads the program. And, um, yeah, she's written books and she's great. She's amazing. Um, and [00:12:00] she's very instrumental in the design community and SVA.
Dan: the reason why I'm asking is that, um, I get lots of great feedback from doing this, but a lot of the, some of the most rewarding feedback is, um, when people are, well, sometimes later in their career path as well, but early on, they're like, uh, They're not sure of what exists out there. They're not sure of like what their interests may be and, or if they're doing one thing that's creative, but maybe they want to pivot to somewhere else.
And I just think that, um, hearing stories, especially like this experience you had at school of visual arts, I think it really can help and have a really big impact on a listener if they haven't considered, or did they know? Um, so thank you for sharing that. I, I appreciate it. Um, and I'm sure it will. Land with one of our listeners watchers.
Um, and, and that's great. That's one of the most rewarding things I'd love about doing this. Um, okay. So you finish up [00:13:00] that and then what you take us back to what year you were done.
David: Um, that was 2013. Um, and from there I, so I started working, I was actually interning there while I was in the program, um, at a place called local projects, which is a and digital design firm specializing in like museums and public spaces and, um, Yeah, it really, really interesting, interactive exhibitions, um, digital experiences. and at the time, like I didn't, I didn't have any qualifications to be there like at all. Like, I just thought it was like a really cool company and I thought what they were doing was amazing. And I was like, I want to be a part of it. Um, and I was learning all these things, obviously in the brand program that I thought that I could, um, apply to. You know, what they were doing at local projects from strategy and branding and trends and culture and [00:14:00] psychology and all these different aspects, uh, that go into designing an experience. And really, that's what they were doing. They were designing these, um, mostly museums, but really cool experiences. And, um. So, yeah, so I, I, I worked, um, influencing how strategy was being brought into that studio. I worked on the business development side doing pitches, uh, and I got to work really closely with the founder. His name's Jake Barton, who again was like a real big influence on on me and, and, to like work alongside him as an intern, uh, which was kind of unheard of.
You're working with the founder of the company. Like literally I sat next to him. Uh, and so like, I just got to learn so much about design and business and experience and, um, Running a creative agency and being in a creative setting and ideas and having ideas like it was like, that was amazing. And I ended up, you know, being from an intern to head of business development, um, you know, throughout that, throughout that journey over [00:15:00] four or five years.
Dan: And were you doing a lot of hospitality there? Or it sounds like you were doing a lot of other really, I guess, hospitality does touch everything. But was it anything Oh, yeah. Purely hospitality that you were working on there.
David: Not at that time. No. Um, I think they have gone on to do some, uh, hospitality related experience, but mostly it was in museums and public spaces, universities we worked with. Um, so it wasn't, uh, directly in the hospitality space at that time.
Dan: And then did you feel that that hospitality, even though I'm sure you accounted for hospitality and guest experience in all of those, um, installations you were doing, uh, was there something that drew you? Or redirected you to hospitality.
David: Yeah. So that was what I saw an opening at, at brand bureau and AvroKo, um, brand bureau is a division of AvroKo and it was for a brand strategist. And that's when, you know, that, that hospitality calling came my way. Um, and it [00:16:00] was just such a cool opportunity and such a great company with a great reputation. Um, it was a really hard decision because I, I really loved working at local projects. I love the people. I love the business. Um, it was an amazing company doing really amazing projects. Like we. We pitched for the Obama presidential library. Like, uh, you know, we did like these just unbelievable things. Um, but you know, like I said before, like that, that light bulb moment of hospitality and branding and hosp like coming together was like, it was just, I, I couldn't, I couldn't refuse it.
So I had to make that, um, I had to see for myself, I had to make that leap into the hospitality space. And, um, yeah, I'm really glad that I did.
Dan: Cool. Um, thank you for sharing cause they are pretty, um, inspirational. Everyone there over at AvroKo, I'm a huge, I'm a huge fan boy of theirs. Um, fast forward to now at crown creative. So [00:17:00] you've worked on some pretty great spots that I've been in and how has your idea of what hospitality is from, from a brand perspective evolved since you've been sitting in your current seat?
David: I think it's always evolving. Uh, this idea of brand in hospitality, uh, I think is, uh, to your point, you mentioned the beginning is really grown. Um, you know, it's, it's sort of like the last thing that comes into play, but more and more, we're seeing it as really the driver of, of. Of the project and of the experiences, um, you know, starting with brands, starting with that storytelling, um, starting with the concept, uh, starting with, um, the strategy of the space and what we want people to feel, what type of experience they want to have. Um, you know, when I was, I worked for Marriott for a little bit with a group called pure gray and our group, our division was specifically designated to, uh, hospitality, uh, food and beverage. [00:18:00] Design and bespoke experiences. We worked with the entire Marriott portfolio, but we kind of operated independently and did our own thing in New York, but, uh, the idea was really an investment on the Marriott side to really put branding and design and food and beverage as a priority in the hotel experience, because, you know, typically it's, it's sort of an afterthought.
It's sort of an amenity to the hotel or the traditional or old school way of thinking of it. Um, but now. The food and beverage is the driver often to the, to the experience, uh, that, that lobby space, that public space is everything to the hotel, not just for the guests, but for locals, um, you know, to bring people in to, to draw attractions, um, that, that food and beverage space and, and, you know, that experiential part of the hotel. the driver like that is, that is the experience.
Dan: I've seen that and I continue to see that evolution happening. But you know, if you go back not too [00:19:00] far, if you asked a general manager, you know, what's something that they could do to make their hotel more profitable, they would say, get rid of FNB, get rid of it because it's a drag or it can be a drag.
But I've seen some super innovative. Areas are projects that they lead with the FMB and when it's done well, it really has a meaningful impact on the overall performance of that hotel. Just from overall revenue, room rate, occupancy. It creates a buzz. And one of the ways to do that, I think also is just really connecting with the community around, um, what's your experience or opinion on that shift from kind of putting F and B in the background to really leading with it?
And what makes it most successful in the projects that you've worked on?
David: Yeah. The, the, the answer is that there's [00:20:00] not one answer for F& B. Like, I think that was the misconception is that there was only one way to do a restaurant and a hotel. It was 300 seats. It had a buffet. It had a giant menu with 200 things on it. And it was completely inefficient to operate. And the, there was no branding, there was no real design or thought put into it. And it was like, this is, this is what a hotel restaurant is. And I think that has been what's been challenged. So a hotel restaurant doesn't have to be a drain or it doesn't have to be inefficient or it doesn't have to lose money. It actually can only make money, make money, but it could be, uh, it can be fun.
It could be, you know, a driver. It could be for locals. Um. And it doesn't have to, there isn't just one formula for what the food and beverage could be. Um, it could be a pop up burger joint with, uh, burgers and fries. Uh, it could be a wine bar with some small plates. Um, depending on the market, [00:21:00] depending on the audience, depending on the brand of hotel. Defining what your food and beverage needs are and could be for that market in that space. That's where we come in. And that's where we do. Our job is to say, actually, you don't need this or you don't need a full on restaurant. You actually just need a really cool bar with some small plates and really great wine. And so just figuring out what. The needs are for that space is really what I think the difference is in the way that people have looked at hotel food and beverage in a different way, rather than the traditional way, which is like, ah, this place, this is good. This is just going to lose money. You know?
Dan: Well, I want to go into some of your good examples, um, of where that's really clicked. Like what you've set out with the intention and it, it helps the property or the business outperform leading with the F and B. Um, but before we go there, what's an example of, of a place that maybe, or, or a project you've heard of or [00:22:00] worked or even worked on where the intention was there, but the execution just.
fell flat and it didn't work out or it didn't work out for some other reason. And what, what's like the biggest reason from your experience that it, it might not work.
David: I think I'm constantly, it's a great question. Cause I'm constantly thinking about this. It's like, if I go to a restaurant or I go to a new place and I'm like, Oh, the. For whatever reason, this place doesn't work. Like it doesn't feel right. Or, you know, the food's good, but the design is maybe off. Um, we all work on a project right now.
I won't say, I won't say the name, but just kind of doing a lot of research and looking at some of their properties. And I'm just kind of, I'm looking at some of their spaces and like all the, all the pieces are there. Um, all of the elements are there, but there's just sort of that soul of, of some of the experiences that's missing. Um, You know, the, the places that really put all of those pieces that I mentioned before [00:23:00] together. Well, um, that's, that's sort of what I look for is like, is, you know, the lighting, right? Is the, the OS and E the plates, uh, are those right? Uh, is the service, right? Is it a two? Are they being too attentive? Are they not attentive enough? Um, you know, all of those elements that work towards making that hospitality experience really great. Um, I'm constantly like evaluating. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All of those elements and, and seeing, you know, if something's off, like, what is it? Why is this not working? It is kind of hard to pinpoint, but that's kind of where my brain goes every time I go to a restaurant, which is not fun for my wife, I will say.
Dan: Yeah. Well, I love how you brought in the word soul because it's kind of this nebulous, um, gray area, but like you just know you've, it's like culture, right. In a business that you just know it when you walk in, you just feel it. And it's just, it's all clicking. So do you have an example of a place where it just wasn't [00:24:00] clicking?
The soul was a little bit off. And what did you do to get, to create that grand alignment?
David: Yeah. I mean, there's, there's, there's lots of examples. Um, You know, one of the things, one of the projects that we have been working on over the last year, uh, is with the Dead Rabbit, which is, um, you know, famous bar in lower Manhattan. Um, and it's a, it's a great brand, a great establishment. Um, it's won best bar in the world a couple of times. Um, and, but been, it's been around for a decade and over. Over time, it just sort of kind of lost its way from a brand perspective. And, um, some of the messaging or some of the, uh, articulation of the brand was off. And so, uh, Jack, who's the owner of the dead rabbit came to us and really challenged us to think about, um, you know, I want to bring this back to really authentic, modern Irish culture and [00:25:00] really. You know, use that as a platform to really build around the dead rabbit. Um, this sort of dead rabbit 2. 0. Um, and so it's really about expressing all the, the great modern artisans and designers and tastemakers, uh, in that space and, and using that brand as a platform. So, I mean, everything in that bar is. Uh, is from an Irish maker, the glassware, the stools, the soap in the bathrooms, like you name it, the art on the walls, everything. And, and you start to feel this sense of when you're there, you start to feel this sense of that. Um, it's not your typical Irish pub with. You know, shamrocks on the walls. Like it's really, it's really cool.
It's really interesting. It's, it's design forward, but you're still in an Irish pub and, and it's, it's sort of this, this idea of challenging what an Irish pub really is. And I think that's an example of kind of taking something that, you know, maybe didn't feel right [00:26:00] or, um, you know, kind of had drifted a little bit and pulling it back into something that. Is really meaningful and really special and really tells a story. And I think you can see that you can feel it in the, in the experience today.
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Dan: it was St. Patrick's day recently, and I did a post out there and I, I I've used this a lot, but I've just found if I'm ever in a place where I don't know what's going on, like a different country, a different city, and I got some time, I was fine going to the Irish pub. There's always an Irish pub somewhere.
And then you just go and talk to the bartender and say, Hey, what, what's happening around here? They usually are [00:27:00] very clued in and they know. So that's my, uh, it's my life hack. So when I think his name was Jack, when Jack approached you, um, how did he. Describe like what the challenges are that he was having and then how did you formulaically or systematically kind of capture those things and then create a plan forward.
David: Yeah, um, this was about three and a half years ago. Uh, we had a meeting with him down in Miami, Ryan and I, Ryan Crown. Um, and you know, there were some changes going on in the business. There were some splits and partnerships. And, uh, he basically was like, this is really our opportunity to, to really make the dead rabbit what I had always envisioned.
And, um, really again, just express like what modern, modern Irish culture is. And, um, You know, there's just great, amazing Irish artists and Irish musicians and all these things that he wanted to express. Um, and so we went back to the drawing board, went back to the [00:28:00] storytelling, the mission of the space, the mission of the brand, uh, the positioning of the brand. Uh, we, we literally went back to square one and, and rebuilt the brand, uh, and rebuilt that narrative, uh, to be able to tell this story. And, um, And I think that's where strategy comes in and be able to help articulate that story. But then it definitely becomes about the execution, um, to be able to take that story, to take that mission, to take that philosophy and articulate it in the space, in the food, in the design, um, in the music, in everything that you do. Uh, our team at Crown Creative and Jack and his team at Dead Rabbit have done an amazing job of that. Like, I think it's probably the most, um, beautiful example of taking a strategy and articulating it in real life.
Like I said, everything that they do, every decision they make is rooted in this mission to promote. Modern Irish [00:29:00] culture. Again, if it, if it doesn't fit that, like then it, it's not, the decision is not made. Um, so I think that is really, I think sometimes strategy gets a little bit, uh, confused in terms of like, Oh, it's just a document or it's just words on a page. But when you take those words on a page that are really meaningful and thoughtful, and then bring them to life in the real world. That's when things get really, really interesting.
Dan: thank you for sharing that. Now, let's pretend. A bar or a restaurant or a hotel that you've worked with.
Um, and you've set them up right from the beginning. You get the storytelling, you're, you're getting the execution. The soul of the place is firing. Um, because I, I, I was a dead rabbit when it first opened. It was awesome. And I actually didn't realize that had left the way or lost its way or because I just wasn't going there anymore because I moved to Connecticut.
But, um, Let's pretend someone, you set them up on this path, [00:30:00] they're executing, the soul is there, what practices can a hotel, a restaurant, or bar, what are the most meaningful practices that they can implement to make sure that they're not, they don't lose their way and that they, that they, they continue to keep that candle of the soul lit up through the operation of, and the, and the changes that occur With staffing and team and I don't know, as neighborhoods evolve, like what, what, what are the best practices that an existing property can keep that flame alive?
David: yeah, I think it starts with the, the foundation of the strategy, um, you know, and having a document, a, a sort of brand Bible or Holy Grail, if you will, uh, that sort of is a living, breathing, Um, articulation of what the brand is and, and, and who it's for and what the philosophy is. Um, you know, we do this all the time is even with existing brands. you know, and often they don't have this, this [00:31:00] document. They don't have this, um, this book, this brand book or playbook that they can refer to or that they can share with staff members or that they can share with architects or designers. And I always say, even if you're an existing brand. You know, let's build that. Let's, let's build the foundation first. Let's build, uh, this brand book, this brand playbook that you can refer back to. Um, so I think that's always step one. Like I was having a conversation with a, uh, perspective client the other day and she's building a bar. She already has an existing bar.
Um, but when they went to design the new one, they there really wasn't a document that kind of shared the vision that she had. And she was like, well, why, why don't I have this vision on paper? I was like, we can help you build that. Um, so we want to be able to build that vision. A lot of times when we work with owners or restaurateurs, it's all in their head.
It's all in their, it's all in their brains. And sometimes it's just our job to help them articulate it and communicate it. Um, yeah. So that's that's really step one. I think the other thing is to continually push, uh, push the [00:32:00] brand in ways that it can, um, flex. So if it's, uh, with programming, uh, if it's, you know, doing activations, um, You know, looking at their social, does the social really reflect the way that they want it to and reflect the brand, the brand, um, you know, looking at different extensions of the brand.
Is there other places that this brand could live? Uh, could it, could we create a sub brand? Could we create a spinoff brands? Could we create, you know, when we were doing an Italian restaurant, uh, Uh, that we also created a slice shop as an extension of it. Um, you know, that could live outside the brand, uh, even with the dead rabbit, we're continuing to, uh, create new brands.
We have the Irish exit, which is, uh, a bar that's meant to live in more transit, uh, spaces like train stations and airports. Um, so always looking to kind of see where else that brand could live and in what form and in what shape. And so that's another way that we kind of help push brands and expand [00:33:00] them and, and keep people, uh, You know, interested in what that brand is doing. Um, just so that brand doesn't stay stagnant. It's always doing something. It's always pushing. It's always innovating. It's always doing something new.
Dan: love the Irish exit. That's like, if I'm ever at a party with anyone listening and I just am not there anymore, it's because that's my favorite move. The Irish goodbye. Um, it's a great way to get out.
So
I found that in businesses, um, you could put restaurants, hotels, bars in there as well, but just regular businesses.
Um, the way to keep the culture. And that brand alive and evolving, I find is like, is very values based, right? So if you get those core values down, and it's not like just something that is a poster up on a wall, but these are the four to six key values that make everyone that works there and visits there and all the different stakeholders, [00:34:00] it just, it's resonant with all of them.
And it's a thread that pulls them all together. And I find that the companies. Do the best of this are the ones that take those values and really make it part of their lexicon and put it into practice and give positive or negative feedback or just talk about things in the, in the terms of those values.
Um, what, what do you see from that from an ongoing operating business perspective?
David: Yeah, a hundred percent. Um, it, it starts with those brand values. Um, And the way that I like to think about brand values and is how can they, to your point, how could they actually have an impact? Um, how could they just not be words that live on a page, but how could they actually be implemented? How could they be actionable?
You know, one of the, the most important things I learned about branding was brand is not just what you say, but it's what you do. Um, and so how do you take those things that you're saying, uh, whether it's [00:35:00] you know, community or, Local or authenticity, like these words that you hear in these words that people use when it comes to branding and brand values. Um, but how do you take that and make it unique to you and your business? What does that actually mean for you? And then B, how do you implement it? How does that look in terms of your? Your procurement strategy, your sourcing strategy, um, you wear, uh, you know, the programming that you, that you do in your, in your restaurant. Um, how do, how do all these things ladder up to those values and making sure that those values again are something that's actionable? Uh, because otherwise it is just words on a page. And, and, you know, that's not helpful to anybody unless you're actually living them, preaching them, breathing them and doing it.
Dan: going back to that brand Bible, if you will, um, in a, in a perfect world for an ideal customer for you or an ideal client for you, [00:36:00] how often should they be looking at that? Brand Bible and refreshing it and stepping out and like, is this working or not working? What do we need to turn the volume up on?
What do we need to dilute? And so what's the perfect cadence if there is one. And then for those, uh, clients of yours that, you know, you haven't checked in with in a while, what's a good way to get them to remember to dust off that Bible and, and like continue to evolve.
David: Yeah, I get my biased answer would be all the time that you should be looking at it. I'm always updating it, always refreshing it, but I do think anytime, this is mostly when it comes up is anytime that there's a new project, if it's a new restaurant or a new hotel or, um. A new venture. It's always a good time to look at those, those brand values and, and those, those brand touch [00:37:00] points. Um, we do a lot of digital work as well. And folks come to us with websites and it's always hard to. Just do a website, We always kind of push the boundaries and a little bit to say, well, why don't, like, why can't we look at the brand a little bit? Because, you know, maybe the brand hasn't been touched in a decade. Um, that brand, that brand book hasn't been updated or, um, the brand feels a little bit outdated. How can we modernize it? Um, then we can take that and execute it in a digital form into your website. So I always think when you're. When you're going to spend money and you're going to, you know, put something new out there into the world, why not make it the best it can be? Um, and that starts with that, that, that brand foundation. I think that's really important.
Dan: so I love the success stories that you've shared with dead rabbit, but as you're out doing your thing and seeing what's resonant and I don't know what, what you're seeing in the marketplace, like what's [00:38:00] exciting you most about what you're seeing, um, in, in the future.
David: I think what's exciting me is that, well, from a couple of different perspectives, as we grow as a company at crown, we're sort of wanting to be that one stop shop agency for all things, hospitality, you know, from strategy and concept and brand. Interior design, digital, social, um, all of those pieces, we, we really want to be able to be a partner for our clients in a way that not a lot of other agencies could do, um, because we do so many different things.
And I know everyone says it's hard to do everything well, but we have a really unique strategy that we, we just want to be a good partner to our clients. Um, and if we do that and we bring in the right people and we bring in the right, um, People to do those different those different disciplines.
We think we can really add a lot of value to, uh, two different companies, especially hotels and big hotel companies. [00:39:00] You know, when I worked at Marriott, I saw a little bit of a disconnect in the way that they worked in the way that. Agencies worked and working with multiple agents agencies. And it just got really confusing.
And the process was a little janky and it was just always kind of chaotic. Uh, so I, I really liked this idea of just working with one agency and, and that's how I actually met. Uh, Ryan at crown as we started doing work together when I was, um, when I was with Marriott and we just had that same vision of, like we could just be a good partner to these hotel brands and, you know, the way that we can grow as an agency could only add more value to. To our clients and into the, to these hotel brands.
Dan: And if you were to look at the crown creative Bible, And say, you know, this is who we are as a brand. This is where we're going. This is kind of, this is our roadmap. Um, what's an, give me what's an ideal client for you and walk us through the [00:40:00] roadmap of, um, understanding their needs, doing your. Magic potion making coming back to them, adjusting and then rolling out and then making sure that it's always kept fresh and, and adhere to like what's, what's that dream client for you?
David: Yeah, I think that dream client is like I said, the, the ones that we could be a partner to like really get in deep with, uh, start at the beginning, start from zero, start from scratch, come up with the vision. Come up with the strategy, the concept, uh, the name, the brand, uh, the design, the execution, the rollout, uh, every piece of the, of the creative journey.
Um, those are the ideal clients for us and, you know, smaller independent clients are obviously ones that we get to work more closely with and. Um, spend more time with, obviously, personally, you know, we get to explore markets, we get to spend more time with them. [00:41:00] Um, some of the bigger companies, it's harder to do that sort of personalization to a project that we can bring. Uh, but I think that's where we really thrive is when we. When we get in with a client and really get our hands dirty and really dig in, uh, that's where we really succeed. And I think that's where the most, uh, the most successful projects, um, lie with us and, and to our brand Bible, like that is the, that is the playbook. I think there's a couple of things that we, that we put out there is one, just be really passionate about hospitality. And so that's, you know, what we preach is how can we show the world that we know this, uh, that we. Uh, we live, breathe, eat, sleep, hospitality. It's everything that we do and it's everything we think about. And then the second piece is how can we just be a really great partner? Um, how can we do really great work, but also be really great to work with? And I think that's the piece that sometimes gets missed, right? Is everyone kind of [00:42:00] gets caught up in scopes and budgets and timelines and, and all that stuff, which is important.
And you know, you have to follow, um. But at the end of the day, people are going to remember how you were to work with, obviously the work has to be good and all of the work, a lot of agencies do great work, like everybody, there's a million agencies out there, but I think it's the way that you leave people feeling when you're done working with them is, is the most, most important thing.
Dan: And then how do you, as you're going through these, you know, onboarding a new client, let's say this ideal client, you're working with them. How do you know when you're, When you're great to work with, like, how do you, how does that, how do you define that?
David: There's, there's one clear indication is they, they come back, uh, they come back and they bring, and they bring more work. Um, yeah, I think, know, other than that, like, I think that We try to keep people in our [00:43:00] orbit, right? And continuing to follow up with them and just sort of be on their team.
You know, even if we're not, uh, on the hook for something at the moment, you know, just checking in with those clients. Hey, how's this going? Hey, I noticed like, this isn't working. Like, how can we, how can we do it better? Um. know, there's, there's like, that client relationship is typically very transactional.
It's like, Hey, you know, we need this. You give us this, but I always try to make it so that it's more of a relationship. It's more of a partnership to say. You know, how can we help? How can we, how can we make your life easier? Um, how can we bring more to the table? Um, if something's off, like let's think about it, let's fix it.
If something's not working, let's go back to the drawing board. Um, you know, the type of mentality that I think makes for great relationships and in great clients and being a great agency.
Dan: how do you go out and what, [00:44:00] what's your process from like a business development perspective to kind of preach that gospel and get that passion out there, but also just find those potentially dream clients to work with so that you can wow them.
David: Yeah, I think the, the best way to do it is to, is to live it is to, is to, to do good work and, and be good to work with. And that leads to more work that leads to, uh, you know, word of mouth and networks and relationships and, you know, working with people who know somebody who you've worked with. Um, people seeing the work that you've done. One of the, one of the like business development things that I learned, uh, early on was have to ask, you know, it's like the most simple thing that, you know, we kind of forget about in business is, uh, Hey, you know, we loved working with you. We, we did, we, we had an amazing time. You know, who in your network would also like, really enjoy working with us, [00:45:00] you know, and we'd love an introduction. So like that, like just simple, like ask that you can have, and that may lead to five other connections and that may lead to, you know, one project next year. Um, just sort of like that easy bit of business development that, you know, you can do and you don't have to spend money on it's, it's really just a relation, a relationship building thing that you should be able to do with your clients and you should feel comfortable to do.
Dan: Yeah, I find it. It's like, it's often best to drill for oil where you've already struck it. Another thing that I would say on that, it's like, Being able to ask, even if you get, even if no gets said, that's great data too, because it helps you kind of refocus your efforts and find a different path and get more creative.
Um, no, I love it. Um, if you were to like manifest out there your dream, like a dream client that you would love to work with, who would that be? Like your ultimate [00:46:00] numero uno, big reach project or client?
David: projects like maybe, on the Amalfi coast somewhere that would be, that would be a dream project. We, we have done one in, uh, in Italy, in Lake Garda, Italy. That was pretty, pretty special and, uh, uh, pretty. Pinch me moment for sure. Um, but anything in like Southern Italy, Amalfi coast, Positano, uh, that would certainly be special, um, but a dream client, um, you know, again, like I think it's somebody who is really passionate, really somebody, uh, an owner developer or an owner group that has a really cool vision that has a really interesting, um, approach to hospitality that we get to be a part of and help bring to life and, and, uh, you know, help design and, and. I think it's a really special thing that we get to do when you get to help articulate something that's in someone's head, uh, and see that vision come to life [00:47:00] in a real way. Um, you know, that that's that's sort of a dream. A dream scenario for me. Any day is is working with somebody who's really passionate. Um, somebody who really has. Uh, vision and drive and being able to be a part of that and helping that bring to life like that. Those are the clients that I get really excited about. And, and, you know, I, will say that like, even it doesn't even have to be the most ideal project, but sometimes working with that person is just really inspirational.
Dan: that, um, a visionary or an ownership group that wants to do a project, um, branding, Is often not front of mind and at the beginning of the process. but I will say that I think the most successful projects and the ones that are the most fun to work on are the ones where that idea of the brand and the who and the what and the why are brought front and center.
And it's communicated out to everyone, even to me down [00:48:00] doing the custom furniture, um, yeah. If you had a magic wand and you could talk to those types of owners who maybe don't consider bringing brand to the forefront, how would you coach them? If you had their ear to say, have you considered doing this?
Like, what would you say to them?
David: Yeah. Like I, I get it. Like I understand all the investments and the investment side, and I understand. The real estate, you know, this is a real estate business as much as it is a hospitality business. And I think a lot of the times the focus gets put on the deal and the money and the transaction and all that stuff's important. But I think there's like a tipping point where. If you don't think about the brand and you just start designing and the vision isn't clear and you get too far down the road and, you know, everyone's sort of looking at everybody else to say, well, like, what's the idea here? Or like, what, what's [00:49:00] the vision or what's the brand like?
There's a tipping point. So I think there's, there's a spot, you know, somewhere. I haven't quite identified the perfect spot yet, but I think there is a spot where there's a moment. Yeah. Once the financing is there the, the, the property is there, uh, that there's a moment to say. I would say this to an owner is like, there's a moment to say like, what's the idea here?
what are we, what are we actually trying to put out in the world? Is it something new? Is it something revolutionary? Is it something completely, you know, never been done before? Is it something that, you know, seen before, but you want to do a little bit differently? Like what, what is the, what's the actual goal?
Like what's the, what's the intention behind what we're building here from an experience standpoint, from a brand standpoint? Um, And that moment is the critical moment that I would say and try to coach owners to be like, okay, we have all of our ducks in a row. We, [00:50:00] we, we've got everything set up. We've got all the general contractors, like all that's there before we start putting pen to paper. What's the idea here?
Dan: Yeah.
David: that that would be my moment, our ideal moment to have a meeting, sit down with those owners and be like, let's really think about what we're trying to achieve and what we want the experience to be.
Dan: Yeah. It's almost like a starting gate, right? You got all that stuff. You're in the starting gate and it's like, okay, let's Let's pause, take stock, and just really quickly have like a little, a gut check so that we get the soul of the project right. And I, I think that that part, because everything is so fast, um, that's the hard part to get everyone to take that beat.
and it, and again, it takes, A trusted relationship and, uh, and those are, those take forever to build. And I dunno, I feel like in that check in with those really great clients, maybe it's a thing to say when, when a project's not even on the line, be like, Hey, can we just talk about the overall [00:51:00] process?
And like, how can we, um, get this, get these projects that we work on, started off on a better footing right from the beginning, I've been thinking about that a lot, and thank you for like. Taking all these questions about that because I, I'm just, I'm, I'm pulling on this thread and like one of the things I get to do is learn a lot from the guests on, uh, on the pod and I just appreciate you sharing all of this because it's, it's helping me get a little bit more, um, firm and concrete in what I'm thinking as with my deliverables and how I increase client success.
So I just want to say, okay. Thank you.
David: Yeah. And I will say, too, that the clients who we have worked with and gone through this process of creating a brand book and creating the brand foundation of brand values, the next project that they come to us with or that they bring our way. It, it starts with that. It starts with, Hey, I have this idea, but I need to put a deck together and [00:52:00] we need to share it with investors or we need to share it with, um, a property owner and they don't even have a space yet.
They don't have a building. They don't have a space. They don't have anything. But that, that frame of mind has flipped for them where it's like, okay, if I have the idea first, I can go and sell that to anybody if I have the. You know, the piece that gets people excited, the piece that gets people really, uh, you know, inspired by what I'm trying to do, we can find a space, we can find a building, we can find a property. So it's almost like once they've worked with us and gone through that process, they now see the value in having that vision and strategy first.
Dan: Awesome. Um, this has been a fantastic conversation, David. I thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much, uh, for taking all my questions and putting yourself out there. And I'm also glad that you're a neighbor. So, uh, if people wanted to learn more, connect with you or crown, uh, creative, what's the best way for them to do [00:53:00] that?
David: Yeah. Check out our website. Um, we've just relaunched it, um, complete overhaul and design, which is, you know, labor of love, uh, crown creative. com. Um, my email is just David at crown creative. com. So, um, we'd love to, we'd love to work with you if, uh, there's a project that you're passionate about.
Dan: Awesome. Thank you. And, uh, thank you to all of our listeners without you and being able to impact you positively and help change your journey. Um, I wouldn't be here having all these conversations. So I just am eternally grateful to all of you. And, uh, thanks everyone. And we'll catch you next time.
