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Beyond The Message is a weekly podcast that dives deeper into the weekend’s teaching. Released after each Sunday service, it offers thoughtful conversation, added insight, and practical reflection to help our community process and apply what they heard. Whether you're revisiting the message or catching up, this podcast is designed to help you go deeper throughout the week.
Welcome to Beyond the Message, the podcast where we take the weekly teaching at Christ Community Chapel and we bring it into your week. Each week we sit down together with my friends, and we take time to laugh usually a little bit, to reflect, and then to talk about how we're going to live out what we are learning. If you didn't hear the message, that's okay. Drop down to the description, take a look at the link there, watch it, listen to it, and then come back and join in on our conversation. My name is Stacey, and I'm joined today by Ken Prabucki. Hello. By Sara Koons. Hello. And Lana Chilton. Hi. So good to be together with you guys. Uh, so we're going to have a little icebreaker, as we typically do, as we do. Today, we, well, in the teaching this week, there was a lot of talk about the metaphor of a flag bearer. Okay. The flag bearer. Going into battle. Waiting to see how you're going to segue into an icebreaker from that. Go ahead, please. Very easily. So if one of us were to be a flag bearer, who would you pick to be the flag bearer going into battle? So this isn't like a marching band of flagship. Wait a minute. No, this is like Zach talked about. This should not be a surprise. Let's talk to. This is easy. Wait. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I just want to make sure I understand. There's only one. Didn't Zack say that the flag bearers get shot? Perhaps. Well, then I have. They are the inspiration. They are the rallying. Easy question. They don't carry a weapon and they die. Okay, Sarah, listen, I feel I. Like, I'd be great at this. Are you? Yeah, I think. I think you would. I just think I could be, like, I have a lot of enthusiasm. Um, I would not be afraid to go out first and, like. Are you campaigning for this? Yeah. Okay, well, then I'm gonna throw my hat in the ring as a former field commander. Drum major. For yourself. You're not picking someone. I actually have pretty more than average, like, above average shoulder strength to hold things like batons. I did think about that. Like, man, that would get really tiresome. It would get tiring. I mean, I think a lot of factors could go into this. Who out of the four of us, do you not want to actually have a weapon? Maybe that is the determining factor. Again, I think it's still fair to say me. Lana. I would vote Lana. Not Daniel. You're a prosecutor. She's inspirational. Yeah, well, you're A pacifist. Okay, so Sarah nominates herself. Oh, I'm sorry. Uh, nominated. I was thinking about a very. Can you have small children? Well, Ken just nominated me. Oh, you guys were thinking. I thought he. Not really. This person will die, I guess. Way too subjective. That's on me. I had a heart of sacrifice in this. You nominated me a second ago. I wasn't thinking about the death part in that. I just was saying, who do I not want to have a weapon? Oh, I immediately thought the death part when you asked the question, who does Stacey think should be shot first? That's right. You could have picked me. You could have said, Stacy should go into battle. We want. You know, you didn't have to say it. They can't see you, Ken. Most of us. I'm looking at Stacy right now. He's insinuating many things. Okay, well, appreciate that discussion. I do think that was good. Ice has been broken. Ice m. Has been broken. Great metaphor, though, for us to probably talk a little bit more about in a few minutes. But let's recap the sermon, recap the teaching. It was pastor's act this week. This is week seven, I believe. And we are in 1 Peter 3:13-22. And Pastor Zach had three points, and the first one was the need. And in. In the past, verses 13 through 16, 13 through 17 that he referenced were point two. He kind of went back to those. And it speaks a lot about, um, a life that is good, lived in the goodness of righteousness, um, blessing others. And the point being that there is a need for us to live in such a way where our lives are an example of living a good life, living in the goodness of who God is. The second point was that there's a cost. The cost and the fact that in that living that way, there can be a cost and probably will be a cost for each of us in that. And then lastly, his third point was the question. And that question being, is it worth it? Um, is suffering is, uh, yeah. Living your life in such a way where you will experience suffering in some ways, is it worthwhile? So that's the starting point for us. Uh, hopefully that'll jog your memory if you listened a few days ago. But why don't we start by seeing if there are any just takeaways that you had, things that stood out, uh, for each one of us. Lena, wanna start? Sure. Why don't you start us off? Uh, I think my takeaway was in the second point on the cost and just the cost of suffering, that if we are gonna live lives of obedience, then we will suffer. But how good of God that he prepares us for that? You know, I mean, Jesus John 16:33, you know, in this world, you're gonna have tribulation, you're gonna have trouble. Right. He wants us to know, this is the life I'm inviting you into. But suffering is never the end of the story. And, um, something that Zach said just kind of reminded me, too, that that suffering, for me, this was my takeaway, that the suffering that I do experience as a follower of Christ is. It's a spiritual battle that we're in and to fight with spiritual weapons. Right. So we've talked a little bit about a flag bearer. We're talking about weapons a minute ago. But in all reality, the spiritual life that we're called to is one that has spiritual weapons. It's a spiritual battle. My suffering is not gonna be at the cost of someone opposing me. It's not gonna be at what somebody says to me. It's not gonna be, uh, at what I. Flesh and blood might experience as suffering. But there's always a spiritual component to that. But it can feel very cool. It can feel very flesh and blood. Flesh and blood. But again, the Lord knew that. And multiple times throughout, the scriptures points us to what the bigger picture is, who we are becoming in Christ, and that that's so much more than that. And that that can point others to Christ. Yeah. That is a great compliment to Zach's point about insecurity and how it plays in. Right. It's just a good reminder that, um, the suffering is not like when we are attacked, when. When there's pushback. It's not really about us. It's about. It's about the other person. And unfortunately, that's true for me, too. Yeah. Um, I love the illustration that Zach used. Right. But I think on top of that, too, it's another reminder in what you just said that, again, it's not even about us. It's about. There is this spiritual battle, a very real. It transcends kind of even the pushback or even the other person. This is bigger. Yeah. And I think the point that Zach made that really resonated with me is the fact that suffering is never wasted. It's not meaningless. Which is really hard to feel that in the midst of suffering. Um, but I was reminded of these verses in Second Corinthians 4. It's 16 through 18. And it just articulates really well many of the points that were made. Um, it says, so we do not lose Heart. Though our outer self is wasting away, our inner self is being renewed day by day. For this light, momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, as we look not to the things that are seen, but to the things that are unseen. For. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal. Yeah. And it was just such a good reminder of, like. Yeah, I mean, they're all battles we will fight here on Earth, but it's not without meaning. Um, and it is something I think the watching world is watching. And so I think our response to that is crucial. Yeah. And he doesn't tell us to minimize our suffering. No, no, but he point. I mean, I'm just thinking of psalms and different things that I've been running to and have been pointed to and going like, oh, no, this is what he. You see, he uses it. And part of the process is expressing even suffering that you are enduring. So, anyway, yeah, I think for me, it was baked in a bit to, um. I think maybe the first point that Zach made that I, uh, want to suffer for the right reasons, and so often I can suffer for the wrong ones. So if I were to paraphrase, don't suffer for being an idiot. Right. Because to your point, Sarah, the world is watching. And there's, I think you'd mentioned before we started recording, a curiosity with which they're kind of regarding us. And I would love for them to be curious about why we zig when they would zag, but only in the best of ways, only the most positive. Why are they more forbearing? Why are they more patient? Why are they kinder? Why are these Christians willing to want to restore and to give and to sacrifice not. Why are they the angriest, the most stubborn, most opinionated? Opinionated, I would say judgmental. Right. And I would just love for that to be said of me, for that to be said of us. Let's suffer for the right reasons. Yeah. Well, let's go ahead and take a look at a clip. This was, uh, part of Zach's message that really stood out to me and I thought was pretty powerful. And I want to say this in all love, so please hear my heart in this. But if you're a Christian who goes to church and thinks of yourself as a Christian, but you're not actually following Jesus and your flag is laying on the ground, you pose no threat to the enemy, he will not shoot at you. The best thing he can do is leave you alone because you're Contributing nothing. But if you begin to pick that flag up, what do you become a rallying point for other believers? You become the young adult who says to every other young adult, it is actually possible to date God's way. And Satan says, well, I don't like that. Or you become the family that says, actually is possible to pursue success at work and still teach our kids the Bible. It is actually possible to be a driven man or woman and still chase after my kids. Or it is possible to tell my kids no and still love them. You begin to raise that flag, and all of a sudden you become something that might be contagious. And the enemy knows if you want to confuse the troops, you gotta shoot the flag bearer. So I found that to be really powerful in, first of all, addressing the fact that as Christians, sometimes it can be just. We just say, that is what we. We are. We are a Christian by name only, though, and aren't actually living out a life that is in obedience to Christ, but also one that. Where we are gonna. In contrast to the world around us. And so, uh, just to start things off, where have you seen maybe examples of seeing in your own life or in someone else where you've seen them pick up that flag, that shift has maybe happened in our lives in a life of somebody that you've seen where it went from, okay, nominal Christian, not really looking different than the world to, wow, now I look different. And how have we gotten that right? Yeah. So I'm happy to go. I think, let me just say in that clip, uh, just hearing that again, just being reminded we're of no threat. I would like to be dangerous. Yeah, I would like to be dangerous. Um, I don't want to be a comfort to the enemy when I wake up in the morning knowing that I'm just neutral. I love that. As though neutrality even exists. Uh, so I think in my own life, uh, well, you all know here, and many of the folks watching listening, know a bit of our adoption story. And so, um, there's so many elements to that, so many aspects to that, but in particular and relevant to that question, uh, I spent most of my life, I was growing grown up. I grew up in a Christian family. And, um, you know, we were a family that were unapologetically pro life. That's, you know, and so, uh, whatever that means, uh, we were that in so many ways. Uh, and then, um, I remember the first time I met an adoptive mother. And, uh, she was just, uh, like in her late teens. And so Jamie, my wife Jamie, and I are meeting her and we're nervous and this and that. And uh, it's kind of being facilitated by the social worker. And so she's asking some questions. And so she asks this mom, m hey, why did you choose to place your child for adoption? She's still pregnant, hasn't even given birth yet. And she said, I'll never forget this. The mom said, uh, well, I had a lot of people in my life tell me that I should get an abortion. I just didn't want to do it. I didn't want to do it. And I remember in that moment I'm realizing, oh, for me this is what it means to be pro life right here, right now, in this moment is to whatever else I could do, whatever else I could say, I'm going to pick up this adoption paperwork because that's what it means to pick up the flag, to use that language. And uh, it was just for me it went from concept to reality, from just an idea, uh, to application to practice. And again, that's me. And this isn't a call for everybody to adopt, but it was incredibly. No, but that's a formative, powerful way for me. A shift in your life where you went from, here's one thing, just to be passive in this. And now it's going, no, this is what God's calling me to and I'm going to pick it up. I know, I just was thinking of this just today I was talking with a gentleman in the atrium who was telling me about a brand new Christian that's a friend of his that he didn't know she made a decision for Christ except because of her life. And he said, I finally went to her and I said, wait a minute, uh, do you, did you. Are you a follower of Christ? And she's like, yeah, it's changing everything. And I think, you know, we see that sometimes. And the other step that I think it took me to as I was thinking about it just today was saying, man, we see that often with new Christians and where is it along our way as we've lived out our life with Christ that things can then feel stagnant or stale? Um, is it connected to the fact that it just becomes a moral thing and not a Christ following thing? And I, I don't know, there's, there's lots in there. But I think that's a really good point. I mean I was, I wasn't thinking of an individual, but I was thinking of characteristics of people that I have seen in them of uh, being a flag bearer and One of those things is they are magnetic people. It's like you want to be around them and you're not necessarily sure why. M. But it's almost that curiosity thing of like, okay, they're living their life in a way that invites that. One of the things I've also noticed is they aren't necessarily loud. Yeah. So meaning they're not someone necessarily out on the sidewalk with a big sign doing that. I love that story that you told. Because he noticed just because of things that have changed in her life. It wasn't like she was going around going, guess what happened? And not that that would be bad. No. But I think often those people aren't necessarily the loudest on social media. They're too busy doing the thing. Right. They're too busy living life, being a life that shows it, and you want to be around them. I think those are like two very distinctive characteristics of people who are, um, you know, putting up their flag. Yeah. I do think to your point, uh, if you look at the very first church in Acts 2. Right. Um, Acts 2, 42, 47. Right. And it ends with a good reminder that God's in it. It's not us, but. And God added to their number, day by day, those who were being saved. But it came m on the heels of all of those describing what the church was, who these people were, how they conducted each other, serving each other, giving, generous, being generous, showing up. And I think there was. To your. I think that's a great word. There's a magnetism. People were curious, saying, oh, what? What's with this? And they leaned in. Right. Uh, yeah. It's really good. We live in a hostile culture. We do not need Christians to be hostile in the wrong ways. Adding to that, just hostile in the right ways. Well, no, I'm kidding. I mean contrasting and contrasting. As he pointed. You talked about it earlier. It can present. Mhm. Bringing out other people's insecurities because they see pain points in their life. Right. But, um, quickly, if we can just touch on like that. I loved that, uh, Pastor Zach talked about a life of goodness will be missional. A life of obedience will be missional. Um, and it made me think, like, is there a shift that happens in mindset to make that happen? Or is it an automatic thing that when you are living a life that is obedient to God, it automatically will be missional? Maybe that's just more of a discussion point. But the way he presented it made me think. I was like, wow, I don't always think My. I am on mission as I am living out obedience. Right. I don't think it's automatic. You don't think it's automatic? No, I don't think it's automatic. I think if we answer that question with, yeah, it's automatic. I almost wonder if we're confusing obedience to Christ's mission with good morals. Cause I think you can get to the point in your Christian walk where, by the Lord's help, you have said no to certain things, yes to certain things, in keeping with what God's word says is good, you know, and. And would reflect him. But I think you can get to the point where you're like, uh, I'm pretty cleaned up. I think we're. And we're really missional living is. What's your mission today, Jesus? Where is your spirit leading today? Who are you leading me to? What is it you're calling me to sacrifice? What is you're calling me to do? To say. To not say, where do you want me to show up? Like, that takes such an intentionality. It doesn't happen on autopilot any more than it does for, like, I think about the things I do on a daily basis as a wife and a mom. None of them get done on autopilot. I have to get up and do the thing and. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. True obedience to Scripture. Wouldn't it be that. Sorry, maybe I'm overthinking. Well, here's for me, anyway. And, uh, I don't think you're overthinking. I think it's actually really. It's a good question to kind of tease out. But, uh, um. When Peter says, always, always be prepared. Right. To have an answer, uh, for the hope that is within you, I think, what is the hope that is within us? That that actually is the. And that hope is written across the pages of Scripture from beginning to end. It's what distinguishes Christians from moral people. I think we can probably all think of people who are naturally or dispositionally generous and kind and magnetic and all of those things. Um, whatever their hope is, it's not Jesus. It's not Jesus. And so the key to missional living is being reminded why we do what we do. It is. Again, uh, you could have a really big. To go back to the Venn diagram, which I just keep going back to with Zach, because it was so good. You could have a natural overlap that is really big. It says nothing about who you are as a follower of Jesus necessarily. What is the hope that I Have within me? And am I prepared? When people ask why this, why not that? What am I pointing to? Well. And am I living in a way that somebody would actually ask? Yeah, of course. Right. So, like, we're called to be prepared. And I think missional living is. We're living in a way. That's why I think it's like, uh, a. Both. And yeah, your answer. Because I think it's like, well, missional living is a. Hopefully a result, a fruit of the Holy Spirit living within you. But I think there is an intentionality. And for me, how I define it is missional living for me is being able to be empathetic in a way that I could walk in another person's shoes and kind of understand where they're coming from and what that looks like for them. Because I think a lot of times for us, whether it's how we're raised or the life we live, it's hard for us to look at someone else who might be living life differently or have different thoughts and not be able to interact with them well with the gospel. Because you're not making that intentional choice to, like, live missionally in a way to say, like, hey, I wanna listen and hear you and respond well with the truth of the gospel. Yeah. I also would just say this, that in the rhythm of the New Testament in particular, when you think about the word itself, evangelism, it is a proclamation. It is a proclamation. So there is a telling. Evangelism does not exist within a code of conduct only it exists within a proclamation of the gospel that I hope that we hope aligns ah. With the way we are living. Such that when people hear it, they're not wondering, why would you say that when you're living the same like that? I think there is a telling necessarily. It's part of what it means to evangelize. Yeah. Yeah. No, that was really good. I wasn't trying to contradict you, Lana. I really was trying to pull it apart. Because I do think it is a good thing to think about being truly obedient and how that. But yeah, everything you guys said is great. So let's just pivot a little bit to talk about, uh, really that last point. And, um, the statement of just God does not waste suffering. So we go through this. We live lives that are obedient to Christ and that will should bring on levels of suffering. It can be small things. You know, we're not sitting here around this coffee table as. As people that are experience intense persecution. Right. And I don't want to pretend that that is what our lives are like. But by being obedient, by being a contrast to the world around us, there should be some suffering. So how. What does, I think, Jesus suffering teach us? How does that help us or encourage us? Um, as we think about what it looks like to live in such a way where you're going to experience a cost, anything. So I don't know if this, this is what came to my mind. Stacy and I thought, I won't share if others have something that they. But I, I just. This is how it relates to me. I. I was remembering last week, Pastor Joe talked about how if husbands are going to be the husbands, God's calling them to be wives are going to be the wives. If the church is going to be the church, it's all going to be about becoming more like Jesus. And that's what's coming to mind as I think about. It's becoming like Jesus in. In surrendering and committing to the bigger plan of the Father. And when you asked this question, what came to my mind, it's almost 10 years ago, and it's kind of personal, like your adoption story, Ken. But it's so pivotal in God giving me a perspective that really changed everything. So I can still remember the worship service I was in. It was almost 10 years ago. The worship leader, she's, uh, the wife of the pastor of the church I was at. She's leading worship. And I happened to notice that she was pregnant again. She hadn't announced it, but I'm like, she's pregnant with her fourth. And here I was, still longing for a second child. Secondary infertility. Our foster boys had gone back to their dad, and I was aching about that. And I don't remember the song, but I remember in the moment that envy started to creep up, seeing that she was pregnant again. And she's a good friend of mine. But I was fighting this spiritual battle on the inside, and I felt the Holy Spirit say, this is an invitation for you to suffer with Jesus. And I was like, I don't even like how that sounds. Like I remember this conversation. So I cried and I prayed. And then the sermon started, and our pastor took us to 2 Timothy 2. And in 2 Timothy 2, Paul calls Timothy to be a soldier for Christ. He says, to suffer as a soldier who does not get entangled in civilian pursuits, but aims to please the one who enlisted him. And Paul goes on to share that in suffering for Christ, he was able to share the gospel with others, that in dying to himself, he found True life in Christ. So for me, that day still is a time where I realized, no, it's not the persecution that a Christ follower on the other side of the world, but it was the moment in time where Christ was asking me, will you let this lack, this perceived lack in your life actually, uh, be a part of you experiencing m. Satisfaction in Christ and submission to the Father where I could do something on the inside of you that's better than what you think you want for yourself. And the testimony out of that is something that I've been thankful for. So I don't know if that answers your question, Stacey, but for me, that it has been worth it. It has been worth it to see Christ in that. Okay, so there is a. This, like, aligns beautifully. Oh, good. With what you said. Uh, but Keller has a quote that says, you don't know Jesus is all you need until Jesus is all you have. And I think probably each of us have a moment in our life where really it felt like everything was stripped away to the point of where we are just left with Jesus. And the good news is that is like, he is enough. That's right. Yeah. And I love what. How Pastor Zach talked about, like, hey, Jesus went before us. That's right. Yep. And experience suffering in a way that none of us will ever experience. So he can say, I get it. Yeah, I know. And I. And, and. And it just. It's just such a good reminder because, like, you're gonna experience it in some. In some way or another. Maybe you'll even experience in the life of a child or a family member. Yeah. But it is like, you have to remember, like it is worth it. Yeah. Because he's enough. And he paved the way. And we have the hope of Jesus. So like, I just. I just. And we probably need to remind ourselves of that pretty often. Amen. And we have the hope that this suffering is not the end of the story too. Yeah. I think the lie that has ensnared us from our first parents onward was that God wasn't enough. Mhm. Right. It was a lie that autonomy is the win. Right. And I do think that there's often a tie between autonomy and suffering because before it becomes external people pressing in on us, we have to wrestle with that question. Is it worth it? Is it worth it to lay down our preference? Is it worth it to lay down our comfort? Is it worth it to lay down this and pick up that? To pick up the cross of Christ? Like, that's what we have to ask ourselves. And I think for so many of us. Maybe if you're listening right now, you can't identify areas where you're getting, um, a ton of pushback. And maybe it's because you need to pick up your flag, but also to maybe make it more real for some of us. Concretely, maybe the fight is in your own heart first, before it manifests in an external zig or zag. To say, hey, where am I fighting for autonomy? And where am I asking, is Jesus enough? Is he enough? Do I really believe that? Let me just end this. Just popped in my mind. I had another conversation today with somebody at church that said, hey, I need to tell you that today is the anniversary of being three years sober. And he said, Stacey, you know, when that happened for me, you know, that whole first year, I didn't ever think I would get to year three. But again, like, it was in that moment going like he was, took that step and laid down and said, no, Jesus is more. Jesus is what I need. Mhm. And I can set this aside and I think we all are gonna have different things. But even the beauty, I mean, even as you say it, the impact that it had on you as a fellow believer, to say nothing of what it means for an unbelieving world to see the power of Christ's transformation in us and why it's because of him. Yeah. And is it worth it? Yeah. Because the gospel goes for that proclamation goes in our stories, in our testimony. It's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Well, out of all of this, um, I feel like we've discussed enough. We always want to encourage people to think of one thing to pull out. That can be a challenge for this week. And it might be. You know, in the many examples given today of ways that we're picking up a flag, realizing it's okay to say Jesus suffered. I can endure what I'm going through. I can be different in this world, um, because of Jesus. So find that one thing to pull out of here, uh, to live out this week and live out that challenge. But thanks so much for joining me today, guys. Thank you. Thanks. Yeah, thanks so much for tuning in to Beyond the Message. Before you go, just make sure to, to subscribe so you don't miss out on any content in the future. And also we have content for you all week long on our CCC app, YouTube channel, or even on our website so that you can grow where you are all week long. Share that with friends and with family. Until next time. We'll see you soon.