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The Psychedelic Psychologist is a conversational-style podcast hosted by Dr. Ryan Westrum with clients and guests who use talk therapy to integrate Psychedelic experiences for healing and personal transformation. Tune in to hear people’s experiences, breakthroughs and stories of healing addiction, depression, and trauma through Psychedelics. Dr. Ryan Westrum gracefully and empathetically narrates real therapy sessions with people in their most vulnerable and transformational moments.
I would like to invite you to
take a moment, a moment to find
center, a moment to breathe,
and a moment to ground, letting yourself
listen as you breathe in and breathe out,
identifying what it means
to you to have relationship,
relationship to self,
breathing in and breathing out,
taking this moment to identify
your relationship to self.
As you breathe in, and as you breathe out.
Well, let the magic unfold as you listen,
as you watch, and as you feel the depth
of relationship you have with yourself.
Continuing to breathe in,
finding awareness, breathing
out, finding understanding.
Start to recognize the deeper relationship
that you have with yourself starts to
expand out to the people that you trust,
the people that you connect with,
and the people that you have
faith in relationship with.
Witnessing gently and yet
potentially quickly all the
spiritual people, all the connections
that you relate to, that you
are in relationship with,
breathing in and breathing
out, coming back to center,
coming back to self.
And coming back to grounding,
taking one more breath in
and one more breath out as you
open your eyes to see the room.
Most importantly, to see
yourself a little differently.
Hi, it's Ryan.
Welcome to your weekly dose of the
psychedelic psychologist, where I
invite my guests to share stories
about their psychedelic experiences.
We cover a variety of topics
from overcoming addiction and
severe depression to finding
wholeness and spiritual emergence.
Today I'm humbled, deeply honored,
and always trusting in the universe.
I have the privilege today
to connect with Giuseppe.
Giuseppe, how are you coming in today?
Thank you, Ryan.
I feel very centered this morning.
Thank you for your
introduction and meditation.
You're welcome.
It's it's an honor.
I often say I never
know how I meet people.
I never know what the need is
for the connection until the
relationship starts unfolding.
And we've had a
relationship for some time.
And transparently, you
live in Europe and Italy.
And here I am in the Midwest
of the United States.
And yet we found each other.
I'm the integration path.
How do you trust your decisions?
And how do you listen
to yourself intuitively?
Yes.
So my decision with psychedelic and
especially with the integration paths.
Started like let's say not
really in a conventional way.
Like I was related to my best use of
substances and difficult relationship that
I developed with with substances And it
came out this interest, this shift came
out out of difficult experience, first of
all, with LSD, as I, as you know, I know
I told you, but right now, like, I really
reevaluate, like, all this experience as
a gateway to to look deep inside myself.
and to enhance my
intuitive capacity as well.
And yes, when when I first like,
encountered psychedelics, like
I I was just like approaching
them in a recreational way.
And of course, like some truths,
some intuitive truths that
I, that I knew deeply inside
myself, they started to emerge.
But still, I was not like fully
ready to integrate them into my life.
So, it was just like, kind of
separate separation between this
deep inner truths and the world
that I was, like immersed in.
So after a while, of course, with
this difficult journey, like I
couldn't ignore them anymore.
So they started to really emerged and
they, they brought to the surface so
many peculiarities and criticisities
of of my life and my inner existence.
Thank you so much.
Can I ask a question about that?
Because you really trusted yourself
and I know from my own personal I've
done recreational and when we're
unable to bring it back or assimilate,
sometimes we don't know how to.
What gave you the courage
to listen to those lessons?
I think it was like my in that will
to to approach the words, to live
life, to, to change, to transform.
So.
Yeah, I felt this innate that I
think is shared by all living beings
and by all the, all the planet is
always to thrive, to survive and to
yeah, readapt to radical changes.
So, yeah.
At one point, like I, I felt that I
needed to, to explore them more deeply.
And then it's where my my journey
completely shifted on another path.
And now I, I really feel like
spirituality, like the spirituality
that emerged from this experience, like,
It's yeah, I cannot ignore anymore.
And it's part of my life 360
degrees in everything that I do
from business to family relationship
to my concerns about living in a,
in a system of a larger whole, as
we are part of of a larger whole.
And I firmly believe in that.
And yes, they cover like really
all aspects of my life right now.
I love everything you're saying Giuseppe
about this is this idea that you couldn't
turn yourself away from it and now
you're really absorbing and living it in
fullness and there's almost a knowing a
deep knowing that's hard to ignore true.
Yes.
Yes, yes, yes.
Can you tell me when you turned
to the sacred, what was that like?
I believe it started with some ayahuasca
ceremony and really unfolded from there.
Can you describe what that was
like to accept that invitation?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
My first ayahuasca journey as you
know, it was like I approached
ayahuasca after a few months that
I was going through a breakup.
And I told you a really difficult
breakup and it was a moment in
which, which I was really low.
Really.
I lost kind of the fates in in
life, and I was seeing all my temps,
like really vain and business and
in family relationships and so on.
And at one point I, I decided to,
to approach this secret medicine.
And for me, ayahuasca is the.
is really the the plants and the
medicine that I mostly resonate with.
And I explore even our other
tools, but ayahuasca for me,
it was like a special bond.
I was, I was a really emphatic person,
as I told you, like in my social life,
I was absorbing a lot of energies.
And before the, the ayahuasca I I
was concerned that all the energies
in the room, like a room with 30
people, you know, doing a ceremony
would have affected me somehow.
And also like the memories of my bed
trips with with acid, you know they
were coming up and give me the sense,
you know, I'll probably you know,
I will be so much affected by it.
by the journey.
But what came out, it was a
completely different experience.
And the whole experience,
it was like a meditation.
Like, I never meditated before.
I had really difficulties to stay
still in one place, to accept,
to go to sleep as well, like in
a normal way and relaxed way.
And basically my first whole journey
was all a meditation about re centering.
And finding constantly my center that
evolves is not like a static place, but
it was always whatever comes into my life.
And still now I do it every day.
I always like try to find a new state of
balance that evolves, change, transform.
But that's really the core of my
spiritual work and my practice.
Self work that I do daily and that emerged
like with this Ayahuasca experience.
I didn't know what to expect.
I went with a few intentions to the, to
the ceremonies and all these elements they
started to do a cosmic dance and they were
like blending and generating new concepts.
So it was a really beautiful experience.
And I didn't feel overwhelmed
at all, but very centered.
And even the the moments in which like
I was Shifting, for example, to from
it's like it comes in wave, ayahuasca,
so there were some moments in which,
like, I was feeling like a rush of
power, of energy, and I was always
finding the sorrows right human value
to counterbalance this rushes of energy.
So for me, it was like, really
like a meditation, like a dance
and whatever the life was bringing
me, like I was countering balance
to, to find my sweet spots.
And yeah, the the results like
have been super transformative.
You're smiling, you know, what's the
emotion when you say super transformative,
your body and your heart saying?
Yeah, it's like it's rehearsing the
experience is like just so emotional and
so gratifying as well because I completely
like restructured my life after that.
And really, I was able to overcome
addictions to overcome fears, to transform
the relationship into into my environment
and with myself, especially I was also,
I think I am Weakened the rigid wall that
sometimes we we put between us and the
environment, and I was able to filtering
positive information like that was
resonating with with me much more deeply.
And I have completely absorbed
them during that time.
So yeah, I see like these tools as
a powerful also I, I really believe
that there are energetic places, there
are tools in in our environment that
creates these layers of reality more
let, let's say more weak that they make
them more thin in order that we can,
you know well navigate and explore and
exchange energy with different realms.
So with the transpersonal realms,
so with the spiritual realms.
And yeah, for me it was like that.
So all the materials that I was reading
at the time, all the positive activities
that I was doing at the time, like really
I integrate them like so much into my life
and they penetrated and they never left.
Everything about that.
I love everything about that.
And I want to pause because what you said
is tapping into the realms, tapping into
the universe is what I hear you saying.
What gives you that courage from coming
from such a bad and traumatic trip?
What led you to have the
confidence to surrender?
Yes.
My surrendering part was Let's say was
was all I, I understood that it was what
I was meant to, to accept, to embrace.
So really, in that moment, I felt that
was the right thing to do, to stop,
pause, breathe, and, you know, just
like observe and be present, you know.
Yeah.
And not really always acting, acting,
acting, acting, trying to fix,
trying to control, but like just
flow in and observe for a minute.
And then everything came, came from the
inside, you know, everything emerged.
That's fantastic.
And that leads me to talk to you about
what I value so much about you is
you said to pause and you and I are
deeply active people and we have a
lot of energy but where I relate to
more than anything is your ability
to set medicine down and elongate
and dive deeper into the integration.
Can you speak to me about what you've
learned about yourself and your
spiritual process with setting medicine
down and doing active integration?
Absolutely.
So I, after this experience, I
did like other journeys with with
ayahuasca and other ceremonies.
And I remember the first one I told
myself, this is not going to be
another You know, so like I'm gonna
use like the medicine and I'm gonna
like turn to the medicine when whenever
I feel the most than the need to.
And whenever I feel like that,
I, that I have to recenter.
And the other journeys, but the
second journey is of course, after
seeing all the beautiful results
that I had from the first one I
arrived a little bit more excited.
And for example, I, Set a long list
of intentions and I arrived to,
to the ceremonies with this two
page of you know really difficult
intentions that I wanted to absorb.
And the journey was amazing,
even better than the first one.
So it was like really deep
and this time also colorful.
Also Yeah, I had some visuals, like
meaningful vision visuals during the
second one and the problem is that
the integration part, it was like so
much information to, to integrate.
So what what I learned with this the
medicines, that the respect doesn't
come only from, In the preparation
and in the, but you really need to
be gentle to yourself, like respects
your timelines in life and accept
whatever is the integration that
might differ from person to person.
But right now I still feel that
I'm integrating a lot of things.
That I thought I already integrated,
but no, like every day, like there
is something new when I come, when I
look back, like I, I see, oh wow, I'm
noticing that I'm applying this this
intention that I, that I asked, you
know, to develop inside myself and wow.
So I still, surprised me constantly
and integration never finished.
I mean, like, yeah, integration for sure.
And what's funny and what I love
about it, it's not as if you
did the ceremony two weeks ago,
you're talking months and months.
that you unpack and you're
continuing to keep your eyes
open for these wisdom pieces.
Is that accurate?
Yes.
So my last my last journey that
is not this one that I described
right now, it's not my second one.
It was like months and months ago when I
decided to approach it with my girlfriend.
As you know, and then we got in
touch and I asked you to if you
could, like help us with the
preparation and integration after.
And so the last journey was that one.
But yeah, I, I refer like
really to like one here.
Two years ago, like to the experiences
of two years ago and all this for
example, intention that I told you that
I didn't have the chance to integrate.
Like right after, like I still feel them.
It's not linear.
I mean like, yeah, universe is not
linear, you know, it is like he comes
and goes and it's it's the beauty of it
to explore it openly and to be always
like open to, to this multidimensional,
yeah, speak to that, speak to
that trust in the multidimensional
and especially as it relates to
you walking through the universe.
How do you engage with the
multifaceted and multidimensional
universe that exists in your life?
Yeah.
You're laughing and smiling.
I love it.
And they're like, Yes, I had like once I
had like an insight about like dimensions
and what dimensions they can they can what
they can be represented from in my life.
And I saw, of course like the traditional
ideas that we have of dimensions.
But then I started to see also like
dimensions, like line created by.
thoughts or emotions, you know, for
example, like the dimension of my
compassion, how does it expand and
how is the development that I have
on that, on that line, you know?
So for me, like, also, like, emotions
thoughts or like ideas and these are
all like infinite dimensions that
extends from from ourself and yeah,
it's like, it's, it's, it's like nets
of of constructs that you can build.
And all these constructs, they,
they are, they are real, you know,
they are like, you know, you make
them real by just creating them.
And I find myself right now
that's yeah, really expanded my
traditional view of seeing the world.
And before, like, it was really
conventional and traditional, but now I,
I find myself that these medicines, they
really helped me to, to expand yes, this
overview that I have of of realities and
to understand that we're, we're not like
limited by, by this three dimensional
world, but like, that We can expand into
our own, like journeys different paths
that's intermingled, or they can travel
sometimes even, like and in parallel.
Right.
Well, and what I love about that,
and I want to kind of pivot to our
relationship as you're talking about it.
We met in an intuitive way that you
found me, and we've been unpacking things
together for quite a while, and yet it's
that idea that of nothing is parallel and
nothing needs to be so traditional knowing
that you're halfway across the world and
yet we dropped into a safe relationship.
What do you owe that to?
How did you listen to that?
And what have you come away with
from trusting a relationship
that's not in your backyard?
Yes.
For me, like it was so important to have
like someone that could really you know,
help me land and ground after all this
experience, this might be a little bit
unsettling when when you just like go
from one journey to the next one, you
know, you, you really need to ground.
And as you know, especially in my country,
like for example, we still face like a
lot of resistance around all these topics.
And I think like where, whenever, wherever
you are, you know, you should find like
allies and people that could really help
you like integrate and help you land.
All this into your life.
And yeah, I feel like now the,
the needs for the, for the word is
more like really about integration.
And I really believe that's that's
the the real focus that we need
to, to expand and integration.
I'm not talking only about psychedelic
experience, but like every transformative
experience, every shared Discussion
and shared like conversation
needs to be integrated at the end.
And there is much more
need for that, I believe.
Well, and I think you're speaking
so beautifully about something.
It's not just about psychedelics, but
by having, and what I get from our
relationship and the work that you
trust with me, and is the safety to
be vulnerable in all aspects, right?
Relational, professional, emotional.
Our own relationship with ourself and
that's what I admire about you is you're
so courageous to just drop in with honesty
where you're at and, and being able to
unpack it and I admire that about you.
Thank you so much, Ryan.
Yes.
Yeah, it takes a lot of courage because
as time travelers and medicine explorers,
it can as you say be very destabilizing.
And so to your point to have an ally.
And a tribe that can look at you
and go, no, I see where you're at
and what do you need in this moment?
Yes.
Yes.
I believe like people that's they embrace
this journeys and that they want to
start to look deep into into themselves.
And.
They really should find, reach
out for communities, for people
like that can really support them.
Because it can be like completely
unsettling, as you said, like the
resistance of society, especially in
these times, in this transformative
times where everything is
changing constantly at fast speed.
Yeah, what, what you might intuitively
going back to intuition, like know
from inside and what can arise
from the inside might not match
yet the societal expectations
and your, your close environment.
So reach out for your tribe, for your
community and develop this intuitive
truths that they arise with with the
people that they resonate with that.
So for sure.
And it feels safe being able to
check in with one another and
see if it feels aligned, right?
Of course you get the sense of when
you know it's time to journey again,
when does it feel right to you?
How do you access that information?
So the my third experience that was the
the one after the one we mentioned, the
one with my girlfriend he came really in
support of a difficult relationship and.
I embrace that experience really in
a more just presence and healing way.
And in that moment, I felt the
needs, you know, that could have been
helpful for the, for the community.
For the relationship, so not necessarily
for for me, but like when my girlfriend,
she said, okay, I would like to, to go
and try this this tool because knowing
my past experiences, like she said,
maybe it might be helpful for us.
So I, I went there of course.
And But I don't know if I would have
do it again, like in my seeing in my,
like yeah, individual paths, because I
feel that when we had elements to our
life, for example, partner or like other
partnerships different when we join in
the complex systems, then we need to
find new state of balance because The
system might be even if you're balanced
on your own, but the system might, might
have new yeah, new it needs to tend to a
new state of equilibrium, let's say so.
And in this case, I felt
the need to, to do it again.
And now what happened during
this experience is that I
actually felt like a call to.
To re experience the, I'm not
rushing, but to go deep into
into the nature of the medicine.
And yeah, now I would, I would
like to, to explore more deeply
the medicine in the Amazon.
So whenever it will come, like I'm
not rushing it, but I'm looking
forward to, to go and explore more
deeply, deeply there and to go back.
To the roots of the medicine and also
like develop this relationship with
nature and with the planets because
I always, what emerged from all my
ceremonies, it was always that there
was this this connection with the
planets, this really deconstruct the
illusion that I'm separate from nature.
And I really want to go deep, deeply
into that way to understand better.
How can we improve and implement this
relationship and how can we can we
become better space holders, better
yeah, fostering our, our planet.
I love that.
And so yeah, I will, I will most
probably like go in the next
year and in Peru, in Amazon.
Thank you.
High five.
I found like other people that they
came like randomly, like, you know,
like a synchronicistic way into my life.
And yeah, now I feel I
I'm ready to go there.
That's fantastic.
And when I, again, just so relate to
is not being limited by the people or
listening deeper and letting it set,
letting it sit and letting it be present.
Like there's no rush.
And it's such a wonderful conversation
of being able to be a placeholder, sit
with it, and also know our bodies and
our systems don't need to be banging
out medicines or drugs on a daily
basis to be able to relate in the
world, but really walk more gently, no?
What are you doing, Giuseppe,
to be gentle with yourself?
Oh after ayahuasca, like, I
started to meditate daily.
Every day now I'm I'm on my practice.
I always like
check, do checkups on myself.
And the feel myself and meditation is
like great gateway for states of presence.
And I really believe in the
healing power of presence.
And yeah, I started to really feel
myself more and more and more.
And I think with the, with the practice,
it's really the way that I always.
Returned to this state of balance that
we discussed before, and that help
helps me navigate like life in a much
more confident, much more open, much
more graceful, much more loving way.
So thank you for that.
There's no reason for me to
know why I just trust the
synchronicities of this relationship.
I'm humbled, Giuseppe, by walking
next to you, walking alongside you and
witnessing you on your healing journey.
Thank you so very much.
Thank you, Ryan.
Thank you.