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Dan Hope and Andy Anders of Eleven Warriors bring you inside the Ohio State beat every Wednesday with a podcast covering everything you need to know about the Buckeyes.
Note: This transcript was AI-generated and has not been edited for errors.
[Dan Hope]
Welcome into Real Pod Wednesdays. Dan Hope joined by Andy Anders, as we are in the thick of recruiting season for Ohio State football and Ohio State continuing to build out its 2025 recruiting class, which is currently ranked as the number one class in the country, another big addition coming over the weekend as the Buckeyes added the number two safety in the 2025 class, Faheem Delane, Ohio State. Certainly putting together the pieces in this recruiting class, Andy, to continue bringing a lot of talent into Columbus.
[Andy Anders]
Absolutely. And you look at the quality of these commitments, talk about a 95.13 average star rating. It's best in the country.
No one else is even at a 94 on average, LSU is second with a 93.8. So that just tells you across the board, even with some maybe project additions, maybe developmental guys like an Eli Lee or someone like that, Ohio State is adding enough pieces at the top to where this is a special group that's coming together and especially the defensive backfield, you have the number one and number two corners, you have the number two safety, and you're right there in the hunt for the number one safety because he's from Ohio, Trey McNutt, so that defensive backfield in particular is something really special coming together in this class for Ohio State, but across the board, they've added talent in a lot of places and they're in several more marquee recruitments for five stars, guys like David Sanders Jr. at offensive tackle, guys like DeCoria Moore at wide receiver.
You know, Brian Hartline is, you know, you always expect Brian Hartline to add a few elite pieces and he really hasn't done that, that's going to boost the rating even more. So if there were ever a year for Ohio State to win that recruiting title, so to speak, if this feels like the year, the way they've added pieces over time and the pieces that are still on the table for them to go out and get.
[Dan Hope]
Yeah, we've had the conversation so many times in the summer about Ohio State potentially having the number one class, but I'm personally in a, I'll believe it when I see it state with that, but there's no doubt that if Ohio State can keep together what it has right now and continues to build on it, that this should be a really strong recruiting class for Ohio State and it needs to be because you look at Ohio State's roster for 2024 and you know, there's a reason why we keep talking about national championship aspirations for this year's Ohio State football team. It is a team that is loaded with veterans who are really good football players.
And, and that is a great thing for this upcoming season for Ohio State football, because, uh, you know, there's obviously some questions about the offensive line, some questions about the starting quarterback. We don't know for sure who the starting will linebackers going to be, but by and large, you look at this Ohio State football team for the upcoming season. It's a team that should be built to go win a national championship.
And that's why to quote Denzel Burke, we're going to be talking about this year as a natty or bust kind of year, because this is an Ohio State football team that could very easily have double digit NFL draft picks next year, could maybe even challenge for the all time NFL draft record, a majority of its starters this year are most likely going to be in the NFL draft next year, which means this is a very important year for the Buckeyes in terms of trying to win that first national championship in 10 years, trying to win that first national championship under Ryan day at a minimum. Beating Michigan and making a college ball playoff and making a deep college football playoff run.
Those have to be the expectations for this year, because there's no team in college football that has more returning star power than this Ohio State football team. So we're going to talk a lot about this year's Ohio State football team. We already have talked a lot about it.
We're going to talk a lot more about it over the next six months, for sure. Seven months, ideally, if the season goes as planned, but with it being a thick of recruiting season, we wanted to kind of take a look at what the roster could look like in 2025, because I think, you know, on paper it's, you have to think if this year goes as planned and the majority of those players go to the NFL draft after this season, then there's probably going to be some kind of a backslide next year.
At the, at a minimum, there's going to be a lot of question marks going into next season. There's going to be a lot of holes to fill for next season. I mean, you think about theoretically what this Ohio State football team could lose after this year.
If Will Howard wins the starting quarterback job, you will lose your starting quarterback after this season. You will lose at least one and maybe two of your top running backs this year, because Travion Henderson is a senior, Quinton Judkins is NFL draft eligible. You're going to lose your top receiver, at least going into this season, Enemeka Ibuka.
You could lose your starting tight end if G. Scott ends up being your starting tight end. You could lose maybe four of your starting five offensive linemen, Josh Simmons, Donovan Jackson, Seth McLaughlin, and Josh Fryer.
You're probably going to lose your entire starting defensive line. The only one who has additional eligibility after this season is Ty Hamilton, and that would be a sixth year for him. You're going to lose at least one of your starting linebackers in Cody Simon.
Maybe two, if whoever wins that CJ Hicks-Sonny Stiles competition decides to enter the draft early. And you're going to lose at least three, maybe four of your starting defensive backs, Denzel Burke, Jordan Hancock, Latham Ransom are all seniors. Davis Zydig-Benosen, also NFL draft eligible.
So you're looking at the possibility. Of having to replace the majority of that starting lineup next year. And that's what makes this recruiting cycle extremely important for Ohio state.
Now, the good news for Ohio state is that that might be one reason why Ohio state has the number one class in the country right now, because you can sell to a lot of these players, Hey, there's going to be a chance for you to come in next year and compete for immediate playing time. You can make those sales pitches to a lot of these players. Now, you know, obviously mining the transfer portal is going to be important next year too.
But you think about when you're trying to sell a David Sanders or a Trey McNutt or a DeCorean Moore or a Dorian Baru to come to Ohio state, those guys want to hear if they're going to have a chance to compete for playing time early and I think while you look at this year and you go, well, Jeremiah Smith's going to play, we don't really see any of the other freshmen playing significant roles this year, next year could be a very different story because of the amount of turnover there's likely to be in that starting lineup.
[Andy Anders]
It's going to be a mad scramble to get those reps and you know, how much this coaching staff has expressed depth is a bigger concern in this extended possible season going forward. That's going to come into more play next year when you're having to replace so many starters. Now you have to look down the depth chart and it's not a guy like a Jermaine Matthews, it's not a guy like a Kenyatta Jackson Jr. These guys that have some experience in big moments, have some pedigree, have been in the program a few years that are going to be your backups, you're going to have to look to some freshmen to be the next man up at certain positions and that creates plenty of opportunity even for rotational roles when you look at, especially on the defensive side of the football, because that feels like the place that Ohio State is going to be hurting in terms of losses the most is on defense, there's going to be opportunities for guys to get on the field as freshmen, like you mentioned, Dan, and it really sets up this recruiting cycle as you know, there were a lot of necessary additions for this team to make, you'll have a couple of key building blocks for the future. Caleb Downs has another year of eligibility.
That's pretty big, but you have so many open windows of opportunity for these freshmen, you can sell them on. And like you said, I think that is part of the reason we're seeing such success right now from Ohio State and being in a position where you can land the number one and number two corners and still be in the battle for number four with Dorian Brew. And that's really telling of the direction this program is heading and why it's important to sort of look at these positions for next year and have it in the back of your mind.
You know, we don't want to stray too far away from this season because I know personally I'm really going to enjoy covering this team and just how special it could be, how special this defense could be in particular, but you got to keep always the future in mind. Certainly Ryan Day is when you're out recruiting. So kind of diving into some specifics here.
I think quarterback, you know, you're, you're going to lose Will Howard, but outside of that, you have four other guys on the roster who have some recruiting pedigree Julian saying, you talk about a five-star heading into year two, I think would be a lot of people's like sort of pick to maybe emerge from a future competition. But if Devin Brown has stuck around, he could really prove to be something in year four, Lincoln Kienholz, Aaron Nolan will have their say, and you have a five-star coming in and Tavian St. Claire. So the future of the quarterback room, at least winter transfer window pending is I think pretty solid.
Would you agree Dan?
[Dan Hope]
Yeah. I mean, on paper, it looks great on paper. It looks great for the future.
It's going to be the same question we have this whole off season of, are you going to end up losing a bunch of guys could be winter or spring where you could end up losing guys in the transfer portal. I think that's going to be the big question. I mean, I think the same names in that group, namely Devin Brown, Lincoln Kienholz, Aaron Nolan.
If those guys aren't starting quarterback this year, people are going to have the same questions about them going into December as they did going into mid April in terms of are those guys going to stick around now, you know, the good thing, like you said, is if, if Will Howard is the starter this year, you can sell all of those guys on the opportunity to compete for the job again, next spring. And if you can keep that intact, then you would have great quarterback depth again next year, just like you're going to have this year. Now I can't sit here and say that I would predict that all of those guys are going to still be on the roster at this time of year from now.
I think at some point there's going to be guys in that group who are probably going to say, I need to go somewhere else for the chance to play more next year. And maybe guys in that group are already thinking about it if they don't win the starting job here in August. And so, you know, I do expect there's going to be some changes to that room.
It's kind of like we talked about this spring in terms of you could afford to lose one, maybe even two of those guys and you're going to be okay. It's that, you know, nightmare scenario of three of those guys enter the transfer portal after this year, and then you could be down to, you know, Julian Sane and Tavey and St. Claire, then you need another quarterback. So right now they're in good shape.
Obviously the 2025 class, they've got their guy, you know, the Julian Sane, Aaron Nolan situation was a very unique situation in terms of Aaron Nolan signing with Ohio State, Julian Sane signing with Alabama, and then Julian Sane entering the transfer portal after Nick Saban's retirement. That, that was a unique situation. Ohio State is still generally going to look for one quarterback in every class because most quarterbacks want to be that one guy in their class and Tavian is their guy full stop at quarterback in the 2025 class.
So unless something changes there, which would be very unforeseen because Tavian has been nothing but all in on Ohio State since the day he committed to the Buckeyes. They're good in the 2025 class at quarterback. It's just the same kind of question we had this off season is roster retention.
Can you keep it all together? Ryan Day and Chip Kelly did a great job of that this off season. So we'll see if they can do it again next off season.
[Andy Anders]
Yeah, that's going to be the big question. And like you said, spring window too. For me though, you know, a place where Ohio State is really going to probably have to look for a transfer addition regardless is running back.
If Quinn Sean Judkins leave, if he leaves, if he stays, maybe you have a little more wiggle room, you've added Bo Jackson in the 2025 recruiting class, who I think is a really good pickup, you're probably going to add a second guy, I think certainly going to, you could even add a third running back just because of that possibility Quinn Sean leaves, but you're going to want a veteran to kind of come in and spearhead the room when you're talking about not having anyone that's beyond a second year player. Again, if Quinn Sean goes pro, I know I meandered a little long on James Peoples and the number three running back on this year's depth chart in our depth chart episode, but this was kind of the reason I was a little fixated on that is because I'm really interested to see how big a share James Peoples can earn this year. And then what he does with that load, because is he going to kind of solidify himself as the next man up?
Not that he needs to go out and rush for, you know, 700 yards this year or something, but can you show enough in the carries you do get that you're going to be that guy next year to kind of lead the charge in that room if needed. And then Ohio state can get more of a veteran guy. That's kind of an in tandem with, I think the strategy moving forward for Ohio state in a lot of ways is to have two running backs at the top of the depth chart.
You feel really confident in. So if you have one of them in James Peoples, that allows you to go and get that veteran who can kind of split time with him while the freshmen come along, while Sam Williams Dixon develops. And then he's got some different things, versatility at his skill set to maybe he can be more of a scat back.
Chip Kelly can maybe do some unique things with that. He's got some schematics that you could maybe draw up to take advantage of what Sam Williams Dixon can do as a receiving option, as again, more of that scat back role. So there's some interesting pieces on the running back depth chart moving forward, but I think it's clear if Quinn Sean Judkins leaves, Ohio state's going to need to add a transfer at the position just to have a dependable veteran who, you know, you can give the football to be confident that he's not going to fumble or make a crucial mistake.
[Dan Hope]
Yeah, I think going back to the point about the importance of playing depth this season, obviously the number one reason for that is because you could play as many as 16 or 17 games and you want to keep your starters fresh. But the other reason Ohio state is going to want to look for as many opportunities to do that as it can is to prepare for the future. And this is certainly one of those positions at running back where, you know, the more experience you can get James Peoples and Sam Williams Dixon and even T.C. Caffey this year, you know, in that running back room to get them some reps and see what you have going into next year is going to be important. And so while that's not going to be the top priority, you know, I think there's certainly going to be games where Ohio state's going to have the opportunity to say, well, hey, we got a big lead here in the third quarter. Let's let's take Travion and Quenshawn out and rest them and let's go see what we have in James Peoples and Sam Williams Dixon. And those reps could be very important in terms of evaluating the state of this room for next year.
Like you said, I think regardless, if Quenshawn Judkins leaves, a transfer running back is going to be a priority for his team next year because they're not going to want to go into next season with only first and second year running backs on scholarship. You're going to want somebody who has a little bit more experience than that. But, you know, to have the opportunity to get James Peoples and Sam Williams Dixon a healthy amount of reps this year and then potentially bring in as many as three freshman running backs in the twenty twenty five class, you know, if they can land Jordan Davidson and Isaiah West and pair him with Bo Jackson, I think they'll feel really good about the young talent they've accumulated at running back beyond this season. It'll just be a question of if Quenshawn Judkins leaves, do they need to go out and get someone who's a little bit more proven?
And I certainly think that is something that they would look to do. I think of all the positions on offense, maybe on the entire roster, if you look beyond this season, the one where Ohio State is probably the best position is wide receiver. And that's not necessarily anything new for Ohio State.
But this is this is really the one position on the roster where they're going to have multiple starters this year that are not draft eligible. And there's a good chance by next year that as many as two, maybe even three returning players in this room are going to already be established stars. I'm talking about Jeremiah Smith, Carnell Tate, Brandon Innes.
You forecast a guy like Mylon Graham, who's probably not going to play a ton as a freshman, but certainly could play a lot more as a sophomore. The pieces are going to be in place for this room where out of all the positions on this team, even with the forecasted loss of, or I shouldn't say forecast, if you are going to lose Emeka Abuka after a season because he is a senior, this is the position where you're probably going to bring back the biggest share of your production from this season. And so, you know, they're in a really good place.
They're a wide receiver in terms of building for the future, where, you know, going into this season, there's maybe a little bit of uncertainty just because you only have one guy who's played a lot, but you feel really good about the long-term plan there at wide receiver. Still plenty of work to be done in the 2025 recruiting class if they only have one commitment there in Desi Jones. But as long as Brian Hartline can do what Brian Hartline does, and that's land two or three more high quality wide receivers in this class, he won't have to do what he doesn't do, which is go out and get a transfer wide receiver, because if they just continue to recruit the way they've been recruiting and they don't lose any unexpected transfers, the pieces should be in place there for Ohio State to continue to have a loaded wide receiver room for years to come.
[Andy Anders]
Right. You didn't even mention, you know, Bryson Rogers is a guy they seem really high on right now. He could step up and make an impact next year.
You've got Kojo Antwi still on the roster who, you know, did so. He's the last remaining piece of that 2022 receiver class, and he's been in the program a little while. You wonder where he's at.
Jaden Ballard could show some things this year and then have another year of eligibility next year. So there's even some depth pieces there that maybe you feel good about going forward, or maybe that depth piece is you pick up one of these five stars that you're after that Brian Hartline's always in on in the 2025 class. And that is sort of your young, you know, freshman.
There's not going to be another Jeremiah Smith. One doesn't exist in the 2025 class. There aren't many Jeremiah Smiths that have existed ever in terms of a recruit with that much hype, that much potential, that much of a skill set.
But at least a freshman that could battle and vie for some reps off the bench in 2025 and then be set up in his second year to be sort of that starter. Mylon Graham is, again, I love that you brought him up there because that's someone I'm really high on and feel that by year two, it's going to be hard to keep him off the field because of how dynamic an athlete he is. This is a guy that has unreal burst and top end speed to couple with it, that you get him the ball with a few yards of space.
He can make some special things happen. That's why he's going to be a candidate to get even returner reps this year, maybe factor into the punt return or kick return game for Ohio State if the coaching staff trusts him enough to field those balls. But going into his second year, I think it's going to be a huge jump that you see.
And he's already done some nice things in terms of developing as a route runner and things. That first year development is going to be crucial for him because of where he plays his high school football at a smaller school in Indiana. But by year two, he's got such a great dynamic athletic skill set.
I think he's going to be hard to keep off the field in year two. And so you feel good about the receiver depth, like you said, maybe more than any other position on the roster. I think my question at tight end is who steps up next year?
Because obviously, G. Scott Jr. is leaving and he's going to be the starter this year. So another position that's going to be interesting to monitor this season in terms of the depth of it, who is that number two guy that they count on?
Is it Will Kaczmarek? Is it Jelani Thurman? Who steps up as that number two guy?
Even throw Bennett Christian in that mix. Demarion Witten's interesting because he's starting at wide receiver as a freshman and then could move down to tight end later. But a really unique skill set at that position, too, when you talk about his length, his athleticism, guy who even played some wildcat quarterback in high school, you know.
And that's not something you see out of a tight end very often. This is someone with a pretty cool skill set coming out of an Ohio State pipeline in Cleveland, Glenville. And that's a person that not this year, but in 2025, tight end, of course, being so developmental as it is, I'll be interested to see if he can get some reps just because of how unique that skill set is.
I'm also really high on Jelani Thurman. I think he's going to be the guy in 2025. That's my projection of the talent that he has.
But if he can step up and claim that number two role, more solidified or at least share it with Will Kaczmarek maybe this year, that's going to be pretty telling for where he can get to the following year.
[Dan Hope]
Yeah, I think, again, barring unexpected transfer attrition, I think Ohio State is in pretty good shape here, building for a future at tight end. You know, if Maxwell Blanc, Demarion Witten coming in in this year's class and then Nate Roberts, one of the top tight end in next year's class committed for 2025, you know, the numbers look pretty good there. And, you know, my feeling is this year is I would pick G Scott Jr. to be the starter right now, but I don't think it's going to be quite the same way as it was last year of Cade Stover to where Cade took the vast majority of reps. I think we could see more of a timeshare at that tight end position this year between some combination of G Scott, Will Kaczmarek and Jelani Thurman. And if that turns out to be the case, that could lead to a much smoother transition in 2025 to where that's a position that, you know, I think is kind of a low key question mark going into this year. Like, can G Scott make that jump?
Can you know, how, how well can Will Kaczmarek translate from a Mac to the big 10? Is Jelani Thurman ready to make an impact? There's some question marks at that tight end position going into this year, but I think if those questions become answered this year with a combination of those guys, I think you'll be feeling pretty good about where you're at going into 2025.
Now, if we look at positions where maybe people aren't feeling so great about where Ohio State's at this year, you would go to the offensive line. And I think if you project forward to next year, we may be having even bigger questions about the offensive line, because most likely four of the five starters this year will be gone next year. You know, Josh Simmons and Josh Fryer do each have two more years of eligibility, but they're both, you know, technically seniors right now.
So will they actually use those extra years of eligibility next year? You know, I wouldn't bank on it per se. And so, you know, that's a position where, I mean, again, we could talk at length.
We have talked at length. We'll continue to talk more about the question marks just going into this year for that unit, because it's still the biggest question mark position for this year. But you think ahead to next year, you know, good chance the only returning starter is going to be whoever wins that right guard competition between Carson Hinsman, Tegra Shibola, and Luke Montgomery.
And then you could have a bunch of question marks around them. I mean, there's, you know, all three of those guys that I just named, regardless of who wins that competition, could be candidates to start at different spots on the line next year. Carson Hinsman could be the starting center or starting guard in 2025.
Tegra Shibola, Luke Montgomery could both potentially factor in at guard or tackle in 2025. Austin Cereville, Joshua Padilla, those are guys who will be going into their third year in 2025, who could certainly be ready to contend for starting jobs then. But, you know, the transfer portal conversations that we've had about this offensive line the past couple of years, and maybe didn't quite get all the answers that Ohio State was looking for out of a transfer portal of that position the next couple of years, chances are good we're going to be having those same conversations again next offseason, maybe even to a greater degree than we had this offseason because of the fact that Ohio State is very likely only going to have one returning starter on the offensive line in 2025.
[Andy Anders]
When you sit back and you think about it, you know, we've been so, again, so heavy on questioning where the offensive line is going to be this year that you're right. It kind of hasn't even entered your mind yet about a lot of these guys are probably going to be gone next year. And where does that leave the offensive line?
You know, I do expect Luke Montgomery to fully step into a starting role. I've always been high on his upside, even if he ultimately loses the right guard competition this year. I still think by year three, he's going to be really good.
And Tegra Shibola is a guy whose athletic skill set I like. But the other outside of those two, I don't know if there's anyone I feel really good about going into next year. And obviously, you know, you have eyes on either Tegra or Carson or Luke, depending on who wins that right guard spot.
But Josh Padilla is a guy who was a solid recruit entering year three, really projects at center, could probably play guard, but haven't seen a whole lot from him. They seem to like George Fitzpatrick, got some reps toward the top of the depth chart this spring. But again, just a guy you haven't seen it from.
There's no one that has the recruiting pedigree or has any experience to where you can point at him and go, yeah, that's a guy outside of maybe Luke Montgomery and Tegra Shibola for me. And when you also look at Ohio State, hasn't really hit home runs in the transfer portal in terms of offensive linemen thus far. They've missed out a lot more than they've hit on in terms of key targets, mainly going back to last year and how long it took to find a transfer tackle until you ultimately did land on Josh Simmons.
Josh Simmons, he got better last year. He was decent by the end of the season, Missouri game aside, where the whole line was, we know what happened with the whole line of the Missouri game. But going into this year, I do expect him to be good.
I just don't think you've really hit like, you look at what you've done at other positions, Quenshawn Judkins, Caleb Downs, these names that you've added through the transfer portal, the two guys that you've gotten, you know, Josh Simmons, Vic Cutler did nothing and like, no offense to Vic Cutler, but he, that wasn't, didn't even end up being an Ohio State caliber talent that you got in terms of just a depth piece maybe.
So where can Ohio State get in the transfer portal and upgrade this offensive line is my big question for next year, because I don't think they're going to have five guys that you feel confident in, just through the regular development track. It's hard to get there looking at this roster. You had so many misses at offensive tackle in the past.
I think you're going to add, you might have a really good offensive line class, especially if you add David Sanders, but Carter Lowe is really good. I really like what he's going to bring, but it takes, you're one, you almost never start on the offensive line. It is outside of tight end, maybe it's the most developmental position in football.
And so it's going to take time for those recruits to get there. Even if you land a home run class in 25, you need to build from what you have already. And I just don't think I'm confident enough.
Can you go out and get that guy? Offensive linemen are at a premium in the portal. We saw it this year.
If you look down the list of the top transfers, whatever ranking site you use, not a lot of offensive linemen in there because it's a position where guys stay in programs longer because of that developmental process. It's a position that's just at a premium. It's harder to find good, high quality offensive linemen than it is receivers or running backs, these other skill positions.
So what Ohio State can do in the portal, I think is my main question in terms of developing that depth chart and that roster for next year. And then obviously some guys need to develop to fill out that line because it is even in potentially a bigger question mark in 2025 than it is this year. And even last year, as crazy as that might sound, because you just don't know how the lineup is going to look if you don't return Josh Simmons or Josh Fryer or both.
[Dan Hope]
I will say that while I fully agree that offensive line is a developmental position and you don't really ever want to start a freshman, I think if they get David Sanders, he will get the chance to compete for a starting tackle job as a freshman. I'm sure that is part of Ohio State's pitch to David Sanders. And he is the type of rare talent that you would give the opportunity to legitimately compete for a starting job as a true freshman.
[Andy Anders]
I'd agree. You'd give him the chance to compete. It's just, for me, I think the last time, the times that Ohio State has had to start a freshman that come to mind on the offensive line, and it's super rare, didn't go that well.
Even if that player ended up being pretty good down the road, there's a lot of even physical development that needs to take place. But David Sanders is a lot of the way there, obviously. There's a reason he's the number one tackle in the country.
So if anyone were going to do it, it would be him. It's always hard for me to see a lineman getting there in year one. And when it's happened at Ohio State, it's almost always been because it had to happen and not because it was necessarily the player was that ready.
Like, I think back to Michael Jordan is kind of the main example that comes to my mind of, he ended up being pretty good at Ohio State. Year one, though, it was a struggle and they were kind of like in a tough situation at that spot where he had to fill in.
[Dan Hope]
Yeah, there's a reason why it very rarely happens. I mean, I think before Michael Jordan, the last one to do it was Orlando Pace. And that guy was pretty special.
So you don't want anyone to be Orlando Pace. I mean, that's even a David Sanders. That's a very high bar to touch.
So I agree with you. It would not be ideal to have to rely on a freshman to start at offensive tackle next year. But either way, you're going to feel a lot better about that roster next year at offensive line if David Sanders is on it and if he isn't, and in terms of a long term developmental track of this offensive line, I think Justin Fry really needs to land a David Sanders.
I think getting or missing David Sanders, depending on how this offensive line performs this year, could make or break whether or not Justin Fry is still Ohio State's offensive line coach in 2025. And so that is a recruitment, even if it's not necessarily the answer to Ohio State's offensive line needs in 2025, remains the most important recruitment for Ohio State right now. And one that I think Justin Fry could really use a win in.
[Andy Anders]
He better show some real development on the offensive line this year in terms of where that group gets to and a real improvement from last year. I think this is this is for me, it's a it's a very big make or break. It has to be a make or break year for Justin Fry.
That's just the nature of the business. I don't like to speculate on a guy's job too much, but it feels like it really needs to be that make or break year, given how the offensive line struggled at times last year and how much of a concern it's been for multiple seasons. And, you know, again, the recruiting side of things, it's been hit or miss.
[Dan Hope]
In terms of the defensive line, I feel like Ohio State's pretty well positioned for the future, even though Ohio State is probably going to lose its entire starting defensive line after this season, because you have a lot of guys, whether it be Kaden Curry or Kenyatta Jackson Jr. or Hiro Kanu or Kaden McDonald, who I think would be very strong candidates to start on most defensive lines in the country this year.
The only reason they're not at Ohio State is because Ohio State was able to retain four players who could have gone to the NFL in Jack Sawyer, JT Tuomolo Al, Ty Leek-Williams, Ty Hamilton. And so I think, you know, the goal for Larry Johnson and Ohio State is to have more rotation this year anyway. That will be a good thing for keeping those starters fresh.
It will also be an important thing about developing for the future. But I think, you know, if Ohio State, if Ohio State can get productive play out of, you know, Kaden Curry, Kenyatta Jackson at defensive end, maybe a little bit of Edrick Houston in there, if, you know, Hiro Kanu and Kaden McDonald and Jason Moore can give them some good play at defensive tackle, I think you'll feel pretty good about that foundation you have at defensive line beyond this year. Even though you're likely going to lose your entire starting unit after this season.
[Andy Anders]
Yeah, you definitely want to see those contributions. I've, I really like the depth they have this year on the defensive line. And I think a lot of those guys are going to make some names for themselves and set themselves up to where you feel good about them heading into next year.
And again, the question is just depth going forward. And I think there's still some missing pieces in this 2025 class, particularly defensive tackle. I'd like to see some more additions, whether that's a Trajan Odom or otherwise, you know, they, they need to fill in a little more of the de-tackle stuff with Zaheer Mathis and London Merritt already in.
You're probably going to add another defensive end just because you're losing both your starters. And, you know, the really interesting pieces, of course, Justin Hill, you talk about one of the best defensive players, probably in the Midwest in this recruiting class, but more of a factor, it seems that the Jack position potentially than anywhere else. And we know it's been a little defunct the last season for Ohio State because it just, their roster was better suited to not include it in the defense.
And that will probably be the case again this year when you have JT Tui-Mogolau and Jack Sawyer coming back. But Justin Hill is a guy that fits in really well. And if he's part of your best 11 on the field, eventually fits in really well to that Jack role.
And if he's part of your best 11 on the field, eventually, I think they've done a good job informing Justin that if it's, even if it's not part of the defense now, it can definitely come back and it's a position that just really well suited to Hill's skill set. And I think he's too good a prospect not to take for Ohio State, certainly. And then they're recruiting him like that, obviously.
So that Jack position and how it factors in going forward is another point of interest for Ohio State. But they're going to have guys next year at the positions. Mitchell Melton's another one that has another year of eligibility that can, I think people are sleeping on a little bit.
He looks really good in the spring to me. I think now that he's had some healthy seasons under his belt, or at least a healthy season under his belt, he's actually starting to develop the right way. And he was always a pretty intriguing prospect.
And he was in the backfield a lot when we watched practice. So I think Mitchell Melton could be really good going forward too. And you have Kenyatta Jackson, you have Caden Curry, Edric Houston in year two should be ready.
Like the depth across the defensive end, I feel really good about in the starters. Defensive tackle, feel great about the starters, would like to see some more additions in that 25 class to fill out the depth chart, but I think they're going to be in good shape.
[Dan Hope]
The other intriguing potential addition to that 2025 class as well is Jakeem Stewart, who is currently in the 2026 class. But you know, there's a lot of smoke about a potential reclassification there. And we got to see him at camp this past week.
And he certainly, yeah, he would be coming in as a 17 year old defensive lineman, but he does not look like a someone who's 16 years old right now. He looks like a grown man out there. And I think he's someone that, you know, even in a reclassification situation where he would be technically a senior in high school age when he came in, I think he would still be a guy who could come in and contribute right away because he's a very special talent.
And so I think as long as they can fill out the rest of that 2025 class with, you know, two or three more impact players on the defensive line, I think you'll feel pretty good about where you are at defensive line going into next season. Linebacker, as we mentioned before, some of that is going to hinge on whether they lose just one linebacker after this year or whether they lose multiple linebackers after this year. Because, you know, when Sonny Stiles and CJ Hicks came to Ohio State, I think a lot of people viewed them as likely free and done candidates at Ohio State because they were both five-star recruits, very highly regarded recruits in their class.
Now, I'm not sure that's necessarily likely at this point because Sonny is making a position change now from safety to linebacker. CJ Hicks has not played much in his first two years. And I mean, we just talked about a lot of these seniors who are coming back for another year.
It's not as much of a given as it once was that a guy who's really good as a junior is going to go to the NFL. So I think it's still probably more likely than not that Sonny Stiles and CJ Hicks will both be on Ohio State's roster in 2025. But even so, I mean, those are both guys who are more Will than Mike.
So there's going to be question marks about that. And there still is a question mark going into this year in terms of who's going to be the starter between those two. There's probably going to be another question mark in that linebacker group going into next year.
Now, with that being said, if CJ Hicks, Sonny Stiles, Gabe Powers, Arvell Reese, Peyton Pierce, Garrett Stover, Tarvis Alford, and Eli Lee are all on the roster next year, I think you'd feel quite good about where you're at in terms of your linebacker roster.
[Andy Anders]
I think you'd feel pretty good about it at that point. To me, I think, and we defer on this a little bit, is that I do think it's likely that CJ or Sonny leaves after whoever wins that competition, just because I think whoever wins that is going to have a big breakout year. I'm really high on both those guys' talents.
I think linebacker was always a long-term projection to Sonny. Now, I'm not going to undersell how tough a position change is. That's a real thing.
But I think both of them are so talented that whoever beats out the other, it's going to be a statement about where that guy is going to get to this year. And the way that wheel linebacker position operates in this defense, you have a lot of space to run around the field, make plays, and showcase those talents. It could also be a factor of, and this is an argument for them both returning next year, of like, how many plays are there going to be made when you have all of this talent around you?
Or is Jack Sawyer or JT Tui-Mogulau going to tackle a guy in the backfield before you arrive? Is Caleb Downs going to fly around and do a bunch of things and show off all the time? How many plays are there to be made?
But I really think that both these guys fit so well in the wheel linebacker position, and it's going to be very exemplary of what they do, that I'm a little higher on you, Dan, that one of them could leave after this year. Of course, I've undersold NIL and roster retention in the past, so maybe that's a factor that isn't enough in my mind. But to me, I think it's a good chance either of them leaves.
But regardless, one guy I definitely want to highlight going forward for 2025 is Gabe Powers, because James Laurinaitis and Jim Knowles have both talked about Gabe in a light where, yes, he hasn't really played yet, but he made big strides last year. I think Jim Knowles especially has been on that forefront of, Gabe, you didn't see it, but behind the scenes, back half of last year, they really like the progress Gabe made, and he was a fairly highly regarded recruit too, you know, overshadowed when you have C.J. Hicks, who was a top 10 prospect. But Gabe Powers is a really talented football player, and he's definitely a Mike.
He could be the heir apparent to Cody Simon. I think if that's where the staff would probably like him to get to, C.J. Hicks, if he does come back, could play Mike, I think, if they needed him to. But I think Gabe Powers might be that guy, when Cody Simon leaves, that he's next up at that Mike position.
And then, you know, another interesting skill set is Arvell Reese for next year, just moved over from permanently to linebacker and a guy that has a really cool skill set at that position too, really athletic. He could even potentially maybe be a Jack going forward if they wanted to bring that back into the defense. But either way, we've seen some nice progression from Arvell, even in this spring, where he's an interesting piece too.
I really like Peyton Pierce. Some injuries have set his development back a little bit, but he'll be back in developing. And I think that him, you have Garrett Stover too, you're adding Tarvis Alford.
There's pieces to like that are young on the defense coming up. I think even if you just keep one of Sonny Sick, Sonny Hicks, I said, Sonny Styles and CJ Hicks, if you keep one of those guys, pair them with Gabe Powers, I think you do feel good about your starting two linebackers though in 2025 and you have those interesting young depth pieces behind.
[Dan Hope]
I feel like CJ Styles and Sonny Hicks are like two very different portmanteau names. Like if you just think about what you think a CJ Styles would be and you think a Sonny Hicks would be, it's just two different, two different little portmanteau names there.
[Andy Anders]
Sonny Hicks has like a mullet and he's just like sitting on a porch somewhere with a shotgun, drinking beer from like King of the Hill or something.
[Dan Hope]
Yes, exactly. Exactly. Anyways, getting back on topic and we look at the secondary.
I kind of feel pretty similar of the secondary to how I feel about the defensive line because I think it is very likely they will lose four starters in the secondary after this year. Denzel Burke, Jordan Hancock, Leif and Ransom will be gone. I think Davis and Igbenosin, a guy who's already been a starter at the collegiate level for two years of his one year at Ole Miss.
I think he'll have a strong case for potentially going pro after this year. And so, you know, you look at cornerback, you're looking at the possibility of replacing your entire starting trio. And yet, I still feel really good about what that cornerback room is going to look like a year from now because, you know, we've talked about it before with Jermaine Matthews.
I mean, Jermaine Matthews should be starting this year. He will be starting next year. You know, Calvin Simpson Hunt is another guy I think I'd feel very good about with another year of development, what he can become in 2025.
I think Lorenzo Stiles Jr. is another guy that I feel really good about as a guy who another year of development, what he could be is that starting nickel in 2025. You know, I mean, you're going to have guys like Aaron Scott Jr. and Bryce West, who you would expect to be more ready to play next year than they might be this year. And then, oh, yeah, you've got the number one, number two cornerbacks in the country coming in.
I mean, Devin Sanchez and Naeem Offord, those two guys are, you know, this is a different position than, say, offensive line. Those two guys are going to immediately be in the conversation for playing time as true freshmen. So while this position will be a bit of a question mark next year, if Ohio State ends up losing Davis and Igbenosin and has to replace all three of its starters, I just feel really good about the talent that Tim Walton has assembled in that room.
[Andy Anders]
I think Jermaine Matthews is all American caliber in 2025. Like you said, the talent keeps trickling through. I mean, Aaron Scott Jr. and Bryce West are obviously, you know, potential superstars. But then you have, again, Naeem Offord and Devin Sanchez coming in to compete. So it's like whoever wins at that cornerback spot, it's going to be a very competitive battle to replace Jordan Hancock and Denzel Burke, certainly. And then Davis and Igbenosin, if he leaves.
If Davidson stays, you feel especially good about what you have next year. So that cornerback room is in awesome shape going forward. And then I think the real only major question you have in the secondary is who starts next to Caleb Downs at that bandit spot when Nathan Ransom leaves.
Because, you know, it's some unproven guys there. So, you know, we like what we've seen from Malik Hartford so far in a year. But I'm not sure strong safety is as much of his skill set as it is free.
And you can move Caleb around the defense. You can play Malik at the free. But I think you want to put your best player in his best position, and that's free safety for Caleb Downs, where he can roam as much as possible and make plays.
You have Jaden Bonsu, who is more of a strong safety type. But where is he going to be at? Jalen McClain.
There's a lot of different stuff there in that safety room going on to where it's more of a question, I think, than the cornerbacks. And you mentioned Lorenzo Stiles Jr. I want to make it clear, too. I'm pretty high on him as well and what he could be as a nickel next year.
So you have a lot of options at that cornerback spot. But at safety, it's who do you pair with Caleb Downs? Kenan Nelson Jr. South Carolina transfer has some experience. But you just added Fahim Delane in this class. If you also get Trey McNutt, I mean, those are two guys who could come in and compete right away as well to start at safety. And we've seen freshmen get playing time in the past, Malik Hartford being an example.
So you have options at that strong safety spot, but some of them will have to step up and prove themselves next year to solidify what you feel really good about the corner rotation. The three names are going to come up there. And obviously, Caleb Downs is going to be one of the best safeties in the country for the next two years, probably.
So who you pair with him is probably the biggest question in this secondary.
[Dan Hope]
Yeah, I agree completely. I think there's not a surefire guy that you look at right now and go, he's the starting strong safety in 2025. But I think the pieces are there in terms of numbers, where, again, if you don't have a lot of transfer attrition, you've already got three safeties in that 2025 class with the possibility of still adding a fourth.
I think the numbers are there. They've done what they need to do to build out that roster for the future. And certainly, you know, knowing that you're going to have Caleb Downs for two more years, that's a really good place to be in if you're Ohio State.
So that certainly gives you some comfort when you think about the two-year plan in the secondary. Before we finish up here on the podcast, did want to spend a few minutes talking about Ohio State men's basketball because Jake Diebler held what I believe was his first press conference since the end of the season. Is that correct, Andy?
[Andy Anders]
That is correct.
[Dan Hope]
And what were the biggest things that you learned from talking to Jake Diebler on Monday?
[Andy Anders]
For me, I think the biggest thing is he's not afraid to say with his chest that, yeah, the expectation here is to go out and win Big Ten championships, compete for national titles. And that's not something I really ever felt like you heard from Chris Holtman really in the past. But, you know, I'll let Jake say it real quick here, and then we'll dive a little bit more into it.
[Jake Diebler]
I mean, I just I appreciate what this program has been. And I got to see it from a very intimate spot when my brother was here. And so we're not going to like the standard here in this program is just that we're not going to lower the standard because maybe it's year one.
We'll see what happens this year. You know, just because we talk about it doesn't certainly guarantee that we're going to be able to do it. I think we got great pieces.
I think we have the personnel to like really take a jump this year. But the standard is a standard and that is competing for championships. That's the way this program has been.
That's the way this program is going to be moving forward. You feel a great deal of responsibility to help push that. But like you see guys like Wilbuford walking through here, guys are going to be coming around here this summer.
Like, that's why that's why I just I want them around because they lived in these halls when they were cutting down nets. And that's what we're striving for. We're not going to we're not going to shy away from that.
[Andy Anders]
Yeah. Again, say it with your chest. You know, this is you love to hear it from the coach.
And he went on to say, you know, it's not guaranteeing anything. He's not going out there and saying, you know, this is 100 percent. We're going to go out and win the Big Ten championship this year.
But to say that's the goal and to have that in the mind of the players, in the mind of the fans, it holds the program to that standard. You have that accountability and that goal. When you have something to strive for as a player, you know, hey, that's the light at the end of the tunnel.
I never felt for me. You might disagree, Dan, but for me, Chris Holtman never really laid down the gauntlet like that. He never had that concrete like, yes, the goal is to go out and win the championships, whatever you would talk with Chris about expectations.
It was a little more vague, a little more broad, a little more where, you know, we're focused on development, blah, blah, blah, blah, kind of a thing. And I think that it speaks to the authenticity Diebler has and the just competitive fire that are going to benefit him as a head coach. Now, who's to say how this season goes?
Some questions that we'll get into in just a second. But I think that was something that I know a lot of Ohio State fans wanted to hear. Of course, words are just words.
You got to go back them up during the season. But even as a reporter, to me, when he says these kinds of things with confidence and it's like, yeah, that's the standard, it's like, OK, you know, I know you mean business. Right.
You love to hear that from the head coach.
[Dan Hope]
Yeah, I think with Chris, there was always kind of a little bit of like trying to manage expectations from the media, like, you know, rather than putting out there, oh, this is our goal. It would always kind of be like, well, we got to worry about this and this almost kind of trying to like. Put those built in excuses there to why things might not go as well as they should on paper.
So I do think Jake's taking the right approach here is I know this is this is the goal like this. This is what we got to do. Will we achieve it?
We don't know. But there's a reason why the Ohio State football program relentlessly, never endingly talks about the goals are to beat Michigan, to win the Big Ten, to win the national championship, because you're trying to speak those things into existence. You're trying to make it clear to everybody involved in the program.
These are the goals. If we do not achieve these goals, we failed. And it's such a high standard.
It's it sometimes feels like an impossibly unfair standard. But when you make it clear, this is our goal. This is what we're going out to achieve.
You create a buy in into, you know, this is what it's all about. So I think the fact that he's not hedging, I think that is a good thing. And I think the larger point of that, I think there is an effort from Jake Deboer to make it clear that they are turning the page from the Chris Holtman era, that while he respects Chris Holtman and is very grateful to Chris Holtman for giving him the opportunity to be a part of Ohio State staff, which led to where he is now, he is not going to run the program the same way that Chris Holtman did.
And he talked a little bit about that on Monday as well.
[Jake Diebler]
This is new and, you know, we've completely turned the page and it's it's going to be different. You know, I think, listen, I've said this before. I think I think Holt's a really good coach.
I think he's going to have a ton of success in the fall. And I've learned a lot from him, but we have to completely turn the page. This is an entirely new program.
There's certainly some guys who were part of this program in years past, but even for them, this is a fresh start. This is entirely new.
[Andy Anders]
It was one of your first comments when Deboer got the job that that specific thing, turning the page, he said it word for word, was crucial for Deboer in setting his own identity for this program, because clearly, you know, respect to Chris Holtman from Deboer's perspective, that it didn't work at the end. Right. This is a results driven business and the results were not there, especially the last two years of the Chris Holtman era.
And so establishing your own identity, regardless of what the last guy did, even regardless of what Chris Holtman, even if Chris Holtman had had the success that I'm sure he wanted at Ohio State, it's important to establish your own identity. And Deboer has done that. I think when you look at the roster building strategy, the coaching staff strategy, he dove into that a lot, too, during this press conference.
I mean, it was 40 minutes long. I always appreciate a Deboer presser because it runs longer than most coaches, I think that I've covered before. Just like you schedule it for 20 minutes, it ends up going 40.
It's great. Great from a content perspective, certainly as a writer. And so when he got into a lot of that strategy, he wanted to bring in both transfers and coaches with winning backgrounds, with NCAA tournament experience.
Every single one of these transfer portal additions has NCAA tournament experience. The coaches, Jamal Walker, Grand Canyon got to heights that it never had before while he was on staff. Obviously, NC State had its NCAA tournament run.
That's where you get probably the top assistant hire of the offseason and Joel Justice. Deboer obviously has a lot of respect for Scott Drew and what he's done at Baylor. So getting Luke Simons from there, I think, was a nice addition.
Taylor Battle is one of the best players in Big Ten history there at Penn State. And he has had some success already as an assistant, very young assistant coaching career. But I think that's a really nice fifth addition to the staff.
And so you look at it's building a winning culture. And that's what he did in the coaching staff hires. But there's also versatility when you talk about these transfer portal additions, guys who could do multiple things.
We've talked about that a lot before. I do want to get to, I think, toward the end of the press conference, it came up that three-point shooting, I think, is maybe the biggest concern that fans have that I have about this team. Because outside of Micah Parrish, who is a solid but not like a great three-point shooter, and Meachie Johnson, who has a lot of range, I think could improve his three-point efficiency some, they didn't really address three-point shooting as much in the transfer portal.
And they especially didn't address it as much of, you know, you lost one of the best three-point shooters in the country from last year in Jamison Battle. It was interesting to hear Diebler reference Jamison and how he developed, like his best three-point shooting season of his career was this year. He is big on the development piece.
So there's two names that I think Ohio State fans, maybe myself, were kind of ignoring in this three-point discussion, have kind of ignored, that Diebler is really high on. I'm not sure where they're going to be at. But Devin Royal and Junney Mobley are the two people that need to develop as three-point shooters for this team that Diebler is counting on to develop as three-point shooters for this team that are going to be crucial for next year.
Devin really didn't do much with the three ball at all last year, obviously, but he did some stuff maybe in the mid-range, had that shooting component a little bit coming out of high school. When you talk about there's no one in this front court that shoots the three right now, that's the one major front court piece that they're looking to become that because you need in the modern game of basketball, you kind of need a guy either at the four or the five who can space the floor, give you that room for these dynamic athletes you have to do it. And maybe it's something Aaron Bradshaw has tried to add to his game before.
We can see if maybe he adds it. He said he's going to give chances for Aaron Bradshaw and Sean Stewart to get going from three-point range. But I think Devin Royal is the one in the front court that they're really counting on to try and take a step next year and provide some spacing.
And then Junney Mobley, Diebler said, was the best three-point shooter regardless of class in high school last year. That's what he said about Junney Mobley and went on a little bit more at length about Junney. I think you look at kind of how thin the guard rotation might be this year.
Micah Parrish can do some things, but outside Meachie, they didn't really add back too much in the portal at guard. True guard bodies, Micah Parrish more of a wing, but he can do some ball handling things, some shooting things. Junney is, I think, going to be expected to play a pretty large role this year.
And Tayson Chapman bringing him back, he's certainly been sold on a bigger role with the team. So Junney, I think, is a guy that they're expecting to add a lot of three-point shooting off the bench. And then you need Devin Royal to give you that front-court three-point shooting presence.
If both those guys can get there, I think you do actually feel good, decent about this team's three-point shooting. But it is, I think, Diebler's investing a lot of confidence in how certain guys are going to develop this year to take a jump from where they were last year as three-point shooters to give Ohio State the spacing it needs.
[Dan Hope]
Ohio State does still have one scholarship available. Any indication on whether the Buckeyes are going to add anyone else to this roster, or are they kind of set with where they're at right now?
[Andy Anders]
Yeah, I asked Diebler about that directly today, about plans. He isn't revealing it a lot publicly. I think the indications we've gotten in the past are that it's probably going to be a front-court depth piece.
We'll see. He said they're being very intentional about who they're going to add. The plan is to add somebody.
He didn't get into any specifics, which was probably the only thing he didn't get into specifics about. I think there probably is what the kind of feeling there was, for me at least. The way he phrased it was like, they probably have a specific player or two in mind, and he doesn't want to A, break any rules, and B, give away too much before that is all done.
He said, basically, there is a specific plan. They are going to add another guy, but he didn't get into any specifics beyond that.
[Dan Hope]
Well, it sounds like you'll have plenty of basketball content to write about here as we continue to make our way through the offseason. We did learn this past week that fall camp will start on August 1, as the first four practices of the preseason will be open to Ohio State fans who are willing to pony up some cash to go watch practice. We are less than two months away from Ohio State football being back on the field, but still several more weeks of offseason to go.
We'll be helping you get through them here on Real Pod Wednesdays and of course, with all of our written content over at 11warriors.com. We hope you're all having a great summer so far, and we hope that you'll continue to check in with us every week as we talk about all things Ohio State sports on Real Pod Wednesdays.