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The Transform your Teaching podcast is a service of the Center for Teaching and Learning at Cedarville University in Cedarville, Ohio. Join Dr. Rob McDole and Dr. Jared Pyles as they seek to inspire higher education faculty to adopt innovative teaching and learning practices.
This is the Transform Your Teaching Podcast. The Transform Your Teaching Podcast is a service of the Center for Teaching and Learning at Cedarville University in Cedarville, Ohio.
Ryan:Hello, and welcome to this episode of Transform Your Teaching. In today's episode, Dr. Rob McDole and Dr. Jared Pyles are at the Online Learning Consortium Conference twenty twenty five, and they reflect on their experience. They're joined by Dr.
Ryan:Bob Lutz, who is the vice president for strategic initiatives at Cedarville University. Thanks for joining us.
Jared:So we are sitting here. Rob's about to take a flight back to Ohio and we thought we would do some OLC reflections on the conference. So we're joined by Doctor. Bob Blutz, whose title is what exactly?
Bob Lutz:Vice President for Strategic Initiatives.
Jared:Vice President for Strategic Initiatives at, Cedarville University. He's been with us, unfortunately. He's had to deal with Is
Rob:that for you, for us?
Jared:No. For the last couple days, and we thought we'd bring him on to reflect as well because he's he's been in some of these sessions as we have. So
Rob:But he's also taken us under his wing.
Bob Lutz:Oh, okay. In his
Rob:in his knowledge of Disney World.
Bob Lutz:Oh, thank you.
Jared:Yeah. Yeah. I mean He knows all the places to go.
Rob:Because he's a member. Yeah. For
Bob Lutz:a few more weeks.
Rob:Yeah. Until Just enjoying the perks.
Bob Lutz:Reminiscing on living in Ohio or in Florida.
Jared:Yeah. Sorry about Ohio. It's kind of a bummer.
Rob:Bob, it has been a real joy to get to know you. Likewise. There's been a lot going on here at OLC. And I think this is your, what, second?
Bob Lutz:Mhmm. Second trip. Yeah. OLC?
Rob:So we like to do kinda like reflections, like like Jared said, and we've already done he and I have already done some reflecting on just being completely AI ed out
Jared:Yeah. A little bit. It feels that way.
Rob:Because I think, like, a majority of the sessions have AI in it. Oh, yeah.
Bob Lutz:I'd say 75%.
Rob:Yeah. So hit us with some of your reflections. What what's been sticking out to you the most in your particular position or or something that you've really been thinking about and things that that you found very helpful?
Bob Lutz:Yeah, sure. So I guess when I think about this year, it's hard for me to not compare it to last year, and I came maybe four weeks after I started my role here at Cedarville, and so I think I sat in the back of a conference room or the conference center thinking, what am I doing? Where did I get myself?
Rob:So I feel a lot
Bob Lutz:better in that, and in addition, I think there's more clarity in using AI compared there was twelve months ago. I wouldn't say there's effectiveness or optimization in how universities are using AI. And I think that was very evident in a lot of the sessions that we sat through. So I think that was a big takeaway that I think that's still unchartered territory. It's hard for institutions that love, you know, accreditation processes and handbooks and
Rob:catalog. Process.
Bob Lutz:Yeah, process on process and policy on policy, using something that is the most powerful tool in the last twenty five years of technology, but not knowing the how or why, or or really the the the ethic behind it is one that I think is driving so many of these conversations.
Rob:I
Bob Lutz:would say other positives for me was hearing from multiple sessions in the online space, you know, every institution has online growth as a strategic area for growth, but often it's driven by just market share, by dollars, by revenue, diversification of revenue, and I heard multiple leaders talking about in the next twenty years, if your programs aren't distinct, there's not a differential, you know, some differential, then the market is gonna be flooded, means price points will go down. What's the value of what you're building? And I thought that was the biggest challenge, but also an encouragement for a place like where I work to make it very distinctly Cedarville.
Jared:Yeah. How about you, Rob?
Rob:I was kind of encouraged last night after the keynote. Bob and I were talking about that a little bit this afternoon. And I think the focus on philosophical underpinnings of how you use technology in general is really bubbling up to the top for just about everyone. They're using terms like ethical, and they're using other terms like equality.
Bob Lutz:Equity.
Rob:Right. And then the keynote was really focused on opportunities using AI, seeing the opportunities in AI, not necessarily shirking the issues that it brings up, and she did she did kind of well, not kind of. She did address those. They had a q and a, which was unusual for A keynote? For a keynote.
Rob:Yeah. So it was really interesting from a, I would say, a non Christian perspective to hear an honest, non fearful approach, one that is based in what I think what she was talking about was AI literacy. So everything came back to this idea Yeah. Of an AI literacy framework that we needed to be bringing not only faculty, staff, but everyone
Jared:Right.
Rob:Up to this level. Mhmm. Students included. And I she spent a little bit more time with that, where she was talking about, you know, students, even though they're born with the technology, does not mean they know how to use it. Yeah.
Rob:And one of her challenges to everyone, especially higher ed, and she said this to the k through 12 folks as well, I was like, your students should not be coming out of your your institutions without a clear formalized AI literacy, you know, framework. Like an ethic. Yeah. An ethic. Mhmm.
Rob:And and if you're not building those, you need to be, like, now. Yeah. So how should you use it? Because she showed some statistics. Right?
Rob:I think, like, already 60 some percent. I think it was, like, 66 or 68% of employers right now from the Cengage survey that she referenced. 68% of employers are already looking for employees to have some form of AI literacy.
Jared:Expecting
Rob:They're expecting it.
Jared:Employees to have AI literacy.
Rob:Yeah. They're expecting job candidates to have AI.
Bob Lutz:I mean, that's especially, I think, even greater. So employers are looking at efficiencies.
Rob:Correct.
Bob Lutz:So they're saying, what can AI do for me that may require less employees? So if a new employee, a new graduate doesn't come in with an understanding the ability to show the value they bring layered into AI, they may not have a job.
Rob:So
Bob Lutz:it's it's a life and death conversation for all of these.
Rob:I think another cool statistics that she showed was that the growth of jobs for, AI, what AI is bringing to the table in terms of jobs that are coming, and then the number of jobs are gonna be removed. She said it's gonna be about equal with probably a few more towards the AI side. So everybody's worried about having a job, but her point she kept making the point. You don't worry about that. You need to worry about whether you're using it or not and if you're using it in an ethical she kept using those kinds of terms, ethical and equitable way.
Rob:So the only way you can do that is by by using it.
Bob Lutz:Understanding it.
Rob:Understanding it. It takes time. Right. You know, she said it does take some time, but you need to start.
Bob Lutz:So I sat in a session where they were sharing data that now in institutions that have, you know, enterprise AI, that almost all the institutions, the faculty staff have caught up in usage with the students. It means that they're all struggling together.
Jared:Yeah. Right. That was something the keynote mentioned as well, was that this is a rare time where all of us are learning together at the same time for this. What was also part of that keynote that it kind of something I wanted to reflect on was she mentioned, like you said, that two thirds of employers expect their job candidates to have some sort of AI literacy. And then she shared the stat that 55% of universities and colleges and higher ed institutions are banning the usage of it.
Jared:So we're doing our based on those figures, we're doing our students a disservice by not incorporating it into either teaching them how to use it or teaching those critical thinking skills or something. So I attended a session today that was on that idea of exploring faculty resistance. And that's something that's been in the literature forever. Like, why do faculty resist not using new technology? Why do they put their guard up and say, no, I'm not doing that and everything else.
Jared:One of the, so this session had a ton of research and one of the big things that was mentioned was embarrassment. Like the fear of failing. And I've talked about this over and over again. This was part of my dissertation as well. It's like that fear of failure that the if it doesn't work in class, I look really stupid.
Rob:And you're supposed to be the expert.
Jared:And you're supposed to be the expert of everything, not just the content, but the technology too. So you look real stupid when your PowerPoint slides won't advance or the animation doesn't work and stuff like that. But the same thing is true here with generative AI. So that's a big pain point for, according to the research, if it's a big pain point for faculty right now is the idea of using it and not using it well. Especially when you've got students in the room that are probably light years ahead of you at using it.
Jared:And there's other barriers like, you know, not knowing much about it, not seeing the relevance, afraid it's gonna be used for cheating, stuff like that. So it's just something that across the board seems to be something that faculty are talking about where it's, I don't I don't wanna use it because of I don't know how to use it. I don't wanna have my students use it because they're gonna cheat. So it's about finding ways of getting through those barriers with faculty. But
Rob:Yeah. I think the thing that I've found over the years that's been helpful is when I talk to faculty who struggle and I remember this when when I'd hear from somebody that would tell me, well, you can't do my course online. That was a very common, you know, pushback that I would get Yeah. From faculty. And I said, can I get you to at least let's just say what you just said is true?
Rob:But let's just say maybe there's an alternate universe where it's potential that it could be. If if that were the case, what how do you think that might happen? And if I can if I can help faculty at least reframe it to where there's a possibility that you could do it, then then they start thinking through, okay. Instead of continually saying, no. I'm not going to do it.
Rob:It's like, okay. Well, how would I do it if I could do it? And then you get you get a lot more forward momentum, and then you might end up with somebody, which was more the case than not, that I've experienced over the years is not only them saying, this is the way to do it. I I can't imagine doing this class any other way. I mean, I've had that on multiple occasions, not just one.
Rob:So the thing that I've learned, and I think it's true with this too, is just what I was hearing as well. You you need to work with it and be willing to at least see what it can do. Yes. We we do need to have conversations about ethical usage. Okay.
Rob:Well, what do we mean by that? Intellectual property. Right?
Bob Lutz:Absolutely.
Rob:So we need to have those, but it's kind of hard for you to have a conversation about something if you don't really know what's there.
Jared:Or you immediately shut it down
Ryan:before Yeah. You get into
Bob Lutz:But I don't think that's as much about the technology as the mindset of the learner. Sure.
Rob:Right.
Bob Lutz:So it doesn't matter what the next technology is. If number one, my answer in life isn't found in it, for me, my answer is found in the resurrection of Christ.
Jared:Right.
Bob Lutz:But then I can engage that with the freedom of knowing the ultimate answers in life are greater, but then I don't live in fear of what is next. And so then I can learn, and I should have a posture of continuing to learn. That is the hardest thing, though. We go through seasons where we just aren't willing to say, I'm willing to unbuild the structure I've built so I can rebuild it in a with better tools in a better way.
Rob:Well, it's the old the old adage. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Right. Exactly. Why are we why are we breaking this process?
Rob:It's been working.
Bob Lutz:Was in her drawer in her kitchen, but you can't get that organized to save your life. No.
Jared:Yeah. Other adage I've heard of that is if it ain't broke, break it. And then you gotta rebuild it. You know what I mean?
Rob:Yeah. Yeah.
Jared:So, I don't know. I've, I'm with you, Bob, on the whole idea of like everyone's kind of exploring this together, but what's really weird is that some of the sessions are very basic and then you have some that are super advanced, but then the super advanced are stretching as far as like they have the answers for. I had a couple sessions where I was like, this is the only way of prompting and this is going to be the future. I'm in the back going, I don't think so. Because it just doesn't feel right to me.
Jared:So but everyone seems to be at this ground floor and I'm I'm begging. And I've mentioned this to Rob. It feels like at Cedarville because of the the enterprise license that we have with Chad GPT, I feel like I'm in a microcosm of like a greenhouse almost where we're just growing rapidly because of our access to ChadGPT, and we come to these conferences and I feel like everyone is still catching up to where we at Cedarville are. For our side,
Bob Lutz:Yeah. It's funny watching some institutions take, you know, the higher ed approach to AI though, and they're like, we created committees of faculty members and committees of this.
Rob:Yeah, we're gonna study this for the next year. Exactly. Right, we're gonna have conversations.
Jared:We're gonna get this published, we'll get it peer reviewed, then maybe we'll do it. Yeah, it's like, I'm waiting on people to catch up. So it makes me think instead of, you know, absorbing, maybe I should be the one presenting the stuff that we're doing.
Bob Lutz:Well, I come back to what they said. They were talking about online programs, but I actually found it to be true even in the AI space. Like, what is your distinction? Yeah. What makes your understanding of why and how and what I don't do with AI, what I do do with AI distinct?
Bob Lutz:Because, you know, mission for us is why we do what we do. Right?
Rob:And
Bob Lutz:if I can't connect that for faculty, it doesn't matter how much I try to arm tie or, you know, carrot or stick. Right?
Rob:Yeah. Yeah.
Bob Lutz:If you take that a step out, then culture trumps strategy technology.
Jared:Right.
Bob Lutz:What's the culture of it? You know, like, need to build it as a cultural piece. Yeah. And and that that to me is coming back to how do how do I speak in terms of mission and culture when I'm talking about how I use this technology? Because I think I can win and be more clear with people than either having lemmings jumping off the cliff of the next technology or Luddites that hide from it.
Jared:Yeah. I mean, I I've enjoyed it. I've still got another half day here, but I am pretty tired about
Rob:You sound like Forrest Scott. Have enjoyed I'm tired now.
Bob Lutz:I have enjoyed the mints in the back of all the workshops as well. Had about 18 of those today.
Jared:I've burned. So the mint that there was in the back, one was like fruit flavored.
Bob Lutz:They're all fruit flavored.
Jared:I can't stand that. That's not a mint, that's candy.
Bob Lutz:The other thing I would say about conferences, we are in Florida, it's 82 degrees out and inside the conference room is colder than Ohio.
Jared:It is I had to bring I brought my jacket downstairs because it's, like, 45 in this room. Yeah. It's ridiculous.
Rob:It's like he's missing Florida, I think. His has your blood thickened yet?
Bob Lutz:Not entirely. No.
Rob:No. It does
Bob Lutz:take a
Rob:little bit. I
Bob Lutz:noticed that when I come back, it takes two days and I just walk outside. I'm like, this is normal.
Rob:It should
Jared:be 82
Bob Lutz:and sunny every day.
Jared:Yeah. It has been really nice. Well, cool. Thanks for taking the time to reflect with us, doctor Lutz. We appreciate it.
Bob Lutz:Thank you, guys.
Jared:Now I
Bob Lutz:have to
Jared:take you to the airport, don't I?
Ryan:Yes. Oh, that's great. Thanks for joining this episode of Transform Your Teaching. If you have any questions or comments on the OLC conference and the guys' reflections on it, feel free to send us an email at CTLpodcast@Cedarville.edu, or you can send us a message on LinkedIn. And don't forget to check out our blog at cedarville.edu/focusblog.
Ryan:Thanks for listening.