Here To There With Carolyn Taketa

This special episode of 5th Wednesday is a conversation between James Browning with the Small Group Network and Ruth Haley Barton, founder of the Transforming Center about her new book "Embracing Rhythms of Work and Rest" and specifically dive into the command to honor the Sabbath. But how can Sabbath be an a communal command and not something that is done purely alone?

Show Notes

Promo: Making Time

You have the same 24 hours in your day as the most accomplished people in the world. So why doesn't it feel that way? Follow along on this special 6 episode series as we take a look at how to make more time. By following biblical principles and taking a look at what you really want, Making Time shares the secret to having all the time you need... with a little help from some friends.

Learn more and download group guides at

For questions, comments, or sharing your tips on how to make more time, reach out to


For more information on Ruth Haley Barton check out her website at and learn more about the Transforming Center at

Embracing Rhythms of Work and Rest: From Sabbath to Sabbatical and Back Again

Early Release from IV Press:
Amazon (Oct 11):

This episode really just took a surface level look at Sabbath and barely even introduced the topic of sabbatical. If you want to go deeper, check out Ruth Haley Barton's book, Embracing Rhythms of Work and Rest by winning a copy from us or by purchasing an early release copy directly from Intervarsity Press. Or you can wait for the regular release in October and buy it from Amazon.

We will be giving out a pair of the books and their are two different ways to enter. We will choose the winners via a random drawing on September 7th. The first method of entering is to leave a review for this podcast on your podcast player of choice. It doesn't even have to be a good review, it can be any review. Just take a screenshot of your review and send it to me at

The second method is to find lumivoz on Facebook and leave a comment on the contest post with your favorite or best sabbath tip. 

You can enter both ways and as many times as you link in order to win. Good luck! I can't wait to talk with you on the next 5th Wednesday!

What is Here To There With Carolyn Taketa?

We focus on moving from Here, wherever you are as an individual in your personal life, leadership, or church ministry, to There, the preferred future that God has for us.

Each monthly episode features a conversation with someone in small groups ministry, authors, thought leaders, and pastors. We discuss topics that can be helpful, informative, or even powerful for you the listener.

A monthly podcast by Carolyn Taketa. Here To There releases on the 2nd Wednesday of each month. Carolyn Taketa serves as the Executive Director of Small Groups at Calvary Community Church in Westlake Village, California, where she has been on staff since 2005. She oversees all aspects of the small-group ministry, participates in Calvary's senior leadership team, and contributes to planning weekend services. Prior to vocational ministry, Carolyn was a litigation attorney (University of California, Berkeley School of Law).

Welcome to Fifth Wednesday. I'm

James Frying with the small group network.

And fifth Wednesday is our special bonus

series. They usually happen roughly

every time there are five Wednesdays in the

month, and typically there are shows that

are outside the normal flow and topic of

conversations that we have

but that are just too good not to


This episode is an interview

with Ruth Haley Barton, the

founder of the transforming center in

wheaton, Illinois. Ruth is a

teacher and author of several books,

including, but not limited to

Strengthening the Soul of Your Leadership,

invitation to Retreat, pursuing

God's Will Together and Sacred Rhythms,

Typically, Ruth speaks with

leaders and church

leadership across the country. This

conversation, I have the opportunity to

sit down with Ruth and talk about her

new book, Embracing Rhythms of Work and

Rest, which leads to a conversation on, um,

Keeping the Sabbath and why. We tend to

be so bad at it.

Ruth also touches briefly on a

sabbatical, but for the full look at both

topics, you'll have to read her new book.

Speaking of the book, stick around to the

end of the episode to find out how you can

win your very own copy. Or check out the

show notes to find out where

you can buy an early release

edition. Now let's jump

into our conversation with Ruth

Haley Barton.

Because right

now we're in the middle of launching a new

book and a lot of attention is going to

that right now, a new Transforming resource.

So, um, I think once we get

past that, then we'll be looking more at

the year following December. And I know

that there will be really good ideas.

When does that book launch?

The official launch date is

October 11.

Um, embracing rhythms of work and

rest from Sabbath to sabbatical and back

again. But this is so

interesting. The book came to the

publisher three months early,

so they pushed really

hard because of paper shortages to get

everything in early so that we could meet

the October 11 date and have that

guaranteed. But instead we ended up with a

book three months early. We got it in early

July. So it is actually

out and the publisher is selling it.

It's not available on Amazon yet, but it

is available through the

publisher. But we're pushing

towards big launch activities on October

11 and in the midst of

recording our own podcast season about the

book right now.

And for anyone listening who wants to

purchase that, uh, the link will be in the

show notes and all of

that. And, uh, for anyone

who wants to wait or wants to kindle

version, we'll put that link in there

great as well. Great. Uh,

that's honestly kind of a minor

miracle. Literally everyone else is

three months late. I know. And

we weren't prepared. I've been joking about

the fact that it's like having a premature

baby. We don't have the crib, we don't have

the room painted. We had a really good

launch plan and having it come in early

actually sent us all into

kind of a tizzy, um, because

we weren't prepared. So now we feel like

we have a tiger by the tail.

Um, and we're now trying to keep up.

But in some ways, the book

is a lovely summer book. So those who got

it in the summer, I think, are going to be

blessed because it, um, looks like a summer

book. And also it's about rhythms

of work and rest. And so many

people as they come into fall, they're

trying to think about how am I going to do

my life now coming up into

the fall. And so

if people who did have it

early take a chance to read it, then it

actually can give them the opportunity to

think before the fall. How do I want to

establish the rhythms of work and rest in my

life as I enter into the fall season?

Because for many pastors, the

fall is a very busy launch type

of season. Um, so it's

almost too late to try to think about

rhythms then. It's much better to think

about it early. So I would suggest

going to University Press's website and

just ordering it. They're giving a good

discount right now. And so, uh,

you can get it if you want it.

Yeah, that's

actually exactly what we're going to be

doing. We're going to be doing a giveaway

with this. And I will be ordering

directly from them and

sending that out to the giveaway

winner. So if you're listening to

this, check, uh, the show notes for

how to win your copy, uh,

of the book. I

am about halfway through it.

We had on our end

a mix up on scheduling.

So I started the book Sunday, um,

night. And it's a, ah,

Tuesday morning.

I will say I've

sped through about three quarters of it. But

I think I'm going to reread it a little bit

more slowly after the

interview. In true

satisfaction. Yes. Slow it down. Yes,

exactly. It's very

convicting. It's like

reading about a particular sin while you're

committing with it.

Uh, I feel your pain. I

really do.

Yeah. And to be honest,

I'm proud of myself for not also

trying to listen to your podcast while

reading the book.

That probably would have been a

bridge too far. Yes.

Um, tell, uh, us a little bit about

your new book, the book that you have coming

up, embracing rhythms of

work and rest

from Sabbath to sabbatical and back

again. And uh, you had

mentioned this earlier

and just us getting to know each

other. This is kind of an odd

timing for the book because right now

is ramping up to be a busy season for

everyone. So right as everyone is

getting their calendars too full, you're

saying, all right, we need to take a break.

Tell us a little bit about the book.

Well, I, um, was mentioning that

we ended up getting the book three months

early, which is unprecedented in publishing.

I mean, I've never I've published many books

and I have never had anything like this

happen before. And so it

was meant to be a fall book coming out

October 11, but we ended up getting it in

the summer. And there was a part of that

that for me felt quite right. Because not

only does the book look like a summer

book in terms of the colors on the cover.

But also. I think many people. As they enter

into their fall. Are thinking. How can I do

this one differently as I get my kids back

in school as ministry. Um.

Ramps up in churches. And

pastors are thinking towards

the new initiatives in the fall and things

like that. Um. Should be talking

about the subject of Sabbath before we get

back into all that could be really

beneficial. Before it's too late. Right?

Before we establish all these things in the

fall that just have us running around like

crazy people, could we think a little bit

about our rhythms of work and

rest which God intends for

us? God does not intend for us to work

24/7, um, all the

time, every day of the week. We were not

created like that. God knows we cannot

function like that for the long term, that

we will flame out, that we will burn out. So

God has given us this gift of Sabbath and a

real rhythm of work and rest. And so

I think the timing could be perfect for some

of us to consider.

What are the rhythms that I want to

establish in my life now before I get into

the craziness of the fall? How am I going to

do it in such a way that I honor my own

personal limitations, that I honor the way

God has made me, that I

honor the, uh, gift of Sabbath in my life,

uh, the gift of these rhythms. Um,

and maybe start to get after a little bit

right now before we. Enter in,


prompted you to write this book?

You've written a lot of books, you've

written a lot of great books. And

this, as far as I know, is

the first one on Sabbath, is that

correct? Yes. I have a chapter

on Sabbath in the book Sacred Rhythms, and

I have a chapter on Sabbath in the book

Strengthening the Soul of Your Leadership.

Um, but, uh, this is the first time

I've really treated it fully. And

also there's a part one and a part two. The

first part is on Sabbath, but the second

part is on Sabbatical as an

extension of our Sabbath practice. And

so this book is

unabashedly addressed towards

pastors and leaders and leaders in

denominations and elders and people

who have the opportunity to establish

and shape the life of a community.

Um, and it's

addressed to leaders and how important

it is for leaders to have their own Sabbath

rhythm and Sabbath practice amid the

demands of leadership. And then it's also

taking a step further and

identifying Sabbath as a communal

practice. When it was given by God to the

Israelites, it was given to a community, it

was not given to an individual. Um, it's

not about individuals trying to figure out

how to take a Sabbath and get some rest.

It's really about how whole communities can

order their lives around, uh, rhythms of

work and rest, and particularly

honoring the rhythm of the 7th day,

um, that God intends for us to live

in. And so then, how can we embed

this in our communities? How can we order

our whole community's existence around

keeping a Sabbath? And I actually used to

introduce a new bit of, uh, phraseology, a

new bit of language to talk about Sabbath

communities, what it would look like for

our community to be a Sabbath community. In

other words, a community that orders its

life around Sabbath keeping.

Um, so it's very challenging because, um,

even the leaders that I've been talking to

about it so far feel very challenged by the

idea that part of their

leadership might be and

should be to establish Sabbath

rhythms. And many leaders have not thought

about it that way. They've not thought about

that as part of their leadership. But

I really rely on the life of Moses to

say that God gave the instruction about

Sabbath to Moses, who was the

senior leader, um, of the Jews,

of the Israelite people, and it was

his job to lead the people in

establishing this rhythm. He did not

delegate that to Joshua or Aaron or anyone

else. God said, you yourself

are to teach the people how to

keep the Sabbath day holy. And so,

um, a drum that I bang in this book

is that it is a part of our spiritual

leadership as leaders

to lead people into

the practice of Sabbath.

And then Sabbatical is just a part

and parcel of that pattern. You

also, in the book, talk a bit

about communal Sabbath

in regards to family. Can

you tell me a little bit about what that

looks like and what your

experience is? You kind of go through some

of the different life stages

and how people do that. I have a six year

old and a four year old, and

rest is challenging for my wife and I, and a

lot of times we take turns on it. That's

right. US, the rest

of the family. Mhm, yeah, that's what you

have to do. Yeah. So again,

this is another aspect, ah, another

layer of Sabbath keeping as a communal

discipline. Sometimes when I teach on

Sabbath, many times when I teach on Sabbath,

somebody in the room is going to raise their

hand and say, well, I take my Sabbath

on Monday when the kids are at school. How

do you feel about that. And I'm like,

well, I can't endorse that

because Sabbath keeping was

always meant to be taken with your most

intimate community, and that is your family,

um, and your

worshipping community. Um,

of course, in the Jewish history,

it's part of their ethnicity. It's for

the whole community to, uh,

stop and have a different

kind of day. I think that opportunity

is going to be tough for us because our

whole culture has moved so far beyond

identifying any one day as being a special

day, a set of part days. But I think

in terms of our families and in terms of our

worshipping communities, there is an

opportunity for us to establish

rhythms within those communities. And so

what that means is that we need to

find a way to

practice Sabbath no matter

what our season of life is in our

families. And that means that Sabbath is

going to look different through the seasons

of life. Which is why I spend a whole

chapter really allowing

some voices who are in different seasons of

their own lives to speak about their own

experience. So when we have young

children, that's one of the most challenging

seasons of life for Sabbath keeping.

Um, but I do think it's still

possible to slow down the

schedule. You're stripping out

everything from the schedule except your

family. And what would delight you as a

family. So when children are young,

it might be a trip to the zoo, it might be

going for a walk, it might be,

um, going swimming.

You're planning it around what would delight

your family and enable your

family to be together and enjoy the

gift of God within, uh,

your family. For parents, it

also means I have a big chapter in the book

on unplugging. And so even to be with your

family unplugged from everybody's

technologies is huge.

I mean, that's a different level of presence

than our children often ever get

from their parents is our full attention.

Without us always checking our phones

or doing texting or checking social

media, that's going to be different in and

of itself. And then the other thing

that I could suggest is that, number

one, you're making it a day for your family

to delight in being together and whatever

that looks like for you. Now, I know

parents are tired and the idea of

Sabbath and rest and taking a nap is just

something we long for.

So another thing that could be different on

the Sabbath. That if your kids still nap

or take quiet time of any sort.

Rather than us rushing around trying to

get tasks done. Because we're having a

Sabbath too. When the kids nap. Or. Uh. When

the kids take a quiet time and we can train

them in this. We can train children to have

a quiet time to sit in their bed or to sit

in their crib and have quiet. Then

we take a nap too. We don't rush around

trying to wash the floor and check email and

all of that. We stop,

too. We crawl into bed and take a

nap. So whatever the space is that

we get, we take it and we allow it to

be a resting time. So those are a few ideas.

The book has way more ideas than that for

how parents of young children can do that.

But there's other seasons of life, too, that

makes status really challenging. And so I

tried to address them all in this book,

which is some really practical ideas. You're

really speaking to my wife's love language,

which is naps. She is

a big fan of

naps. And it was a

struggle for us early on in her

marriage, because if I take a nap,

I can't fall asleep at night, and I already

need less sleep than my wife. When we were

first married, I thought, when you're

married, you go to bed at the same time.

And so I would just lay there in

bed staring at the

ceiling or reading my book or something, and

she'd be sound asleep. She honestly

just needs more sleep than I do. But

she's been big on

teaching our kids about

rest time. For my oldest, she

was like me, she does not need an

app. She does need to sit in a

room. That's right. And to let the

Rpm slow down.

When we moved out here for

our most recent job,

uh, I don't have any responsibilities

on the weekend at our church. I'm very

fortunate in that. And

so our church has both

Saturday and Sunday services. We started

attending the Saturday

service, and

that meant that Sundays we didn't

have anything. That's right. And I'd spent

my whole life in the church or, uh, working

at churches and being busy on Sundays.

And then all of a sudden, it feels like

having the first day of the week off, um,

as a family. And so we did exactly

what you just suggested. We got a

season pass to the San Diego Zoo,

and we go once or twice a month to the

zoo or safari park. And


an hour away, so it's a long car ride.

Kids are just sitting there listening to

audiobooks. I've listened to Amelia bedelia

a thousand times

and all of this, but

it changed our family. It made a

huge difference.

Yeah. And

honestly, when we

get into the nitty gritty of how churches

can order their lives around this,

I'm very brave to say

that ideally, um, I think if

worship can happen on Saturday night, um,

so everybody worships, like, at four or

five, and then either you have a communal

meal or everybody

they go out, they go home. But

that's the beginning of the Sabbath. And

then everybody wakes up on Sundays, and you

don't have to get everybody ready for church

and get dressed and all the stress of

getting a family to church, but then it can

be a day of rest. So honestly, and that

isn't the Jewish tradition.

The synagogue took place

on Friday night and then

the rest of the Sabbath day

just opens out for all the other things. And

so I wish I

know some churches around here in our area

who meet at 05:00 on Saturday night

and then they are fans, they would never

go back, uh, to having church on Sunday

morning. So that's really challenging

and there are lots of other issues besides

the simplistic way that I'm dealing with it.

But on the surface of things, if

there was a way for people to worship on

Saturday night and have that be the

beginning of their Sabbath and then wake up

on Sunday with the day open to them for

being with family and being in that

intimate community, I think there's a lot

to be said for that rhythm. And you're

fortunate that you have the opportunity, um,

to enter in, because I can believe

you that it has changed your family's life

together. What is the

ideal scenario for a leader of a church

or an organization? What would

communal Sabbath look like

in that context? Mhm,

well those are two very different

things. So let me start with the church

because even for one thing,

small, uh, groups won't have the

same kind of authority

to shape the whole church's life, if I

can say it that way. So let me start by

talking about the church because I actually

think it needs to start there with the whole

church highest levels of leadership

embracing Sabbath as a value so that we can

become a Sabbath community. So, um,

what I would be suggesting is that first of

all, the pastor or pastoral

staff, they need to be practicing

Sabbath first in their own lives in

ways that ground them in the goodness and

the beauty. And I would go so far as to say

the necessity of Sabbath as a

rhythm in their life because,

um, it's a hard word, but

I'm going to say it. And that is

that the Sabbath is not

a lifestyle suggestion from


The Sabbath is actually one of the Ten

Commandments. It's the Fourth Command.

And so I think it's the best commandment

personally, because it's such a beautiful

gift. But we need to grapple with what we

believe about the Sabbath. Do we think it's

just a lifestyle suggestion that different

individuals get to decide whether they're

going to practice it, or is it something

that God really wants for us and that should

order the life of our community? And only

the highest level leaders in a church can

discern and decide that. Um, and it

begins with them practicing it in such a way

that it's meaningful for them, grounding for

them. They've become convinced that it's a

gift of God that we don't want to miss out

on and that we want to lead others into.

Then from that personal practice, then they

bring it to the wider levels of leadership

in the church. And together we decide that

yes, we do want to order our church's

life around Sabbath keeping.

Um, and then it gets preached, it gets

taught, they're small groups. Um,

then you make all your scheduling

decisions around Sabbath.

So when somebody

wants, ah, to add another ministry

initiative, there's somebody in the room,

hopefully the senior leader, who says, now

wait a second, how's that going to affect

our ability to practice Sabbath?

Um, because there's always going to be

strategic and innovative ideas that sound

really good. But if nobody ever brings up

the topic of Sabbath,

how are the pastors going to get a Sabbath?

How are the high level volunteers, the

parking lot attendants, the nursery

workers, the Sunday school teachers, the

youth group leaders, how are they going to

get us out? As if we add this ministry

initiative, this is where it

starts. It doesn't start with the small

groups, it starts with the larger

church embracing this value together. If I

can be so bold. Um, and

then from there, there's a lot of

possibility then for the small groups

to decide together, um,

how will we order our small group

connections? And it could be that that's

where the Sabbath meal takes place. That

there's a Sabbath meal that the group shares

together. Um,

but I think when the group meets

would then take into account,

when are we practicing Sabbath?

So one of the moments that I

described in the book that was really

sobering for me is that I've been on a

church staff for many of the years of my

life. But during a season when I wasn't on

staff at a church, and our family was

beginning to attend a church just as a

normal family, I thought, well, now that I'm

not on staff at a church, I can finally

practice Sabbath with my family.

And this um, church in particular

loaded all their activities onto Sundays.

And Sundays was the only time that our

family could even hope to have a Sabbath. We

had three teenagers and all of that. And lo

and behold, it was all the church

activities that kept us from being able to

practice the Sabbath. They had the youth

group meetings on Sabbath on the Sunday.

They had congregational meetings, small

group meetings, choir practices.

Everything happened on Sunday. And our

family was going and coming all day at

different times and in different ways. And

it was a very busy day, but because the

church was creating the busyness.

And so I made this sobering discovery

that it's not necessarily the secular

culture that's keeping us from practicing

Sabbath. It's actually the church

that's keeping us from practicing Sabbath.

And the church is going

to have to grapple with this. And

so, um, I'm going to

offer you one very

challenging quote from the book that you

might not have gotten to yet that

I think really gets at this truth. Um, and

it's from one of my teachers, Tilden

Edwards, who, um, an Episcopal priest.

But he says

this, um, the church

is primary social and psychological

task is to help people manage their

experience dependency upon God in

such a way that they are better able to

care effectively for the world. These

two dimensions of dependency and

caring define a needed

rhythm of life. And

here's the kicker. The

church is the only large scale

institution in society that is

accountable for and capable of fostering

such an authentic rhythm. Now that is a

quote to grapple with. That is on page

117. When you get the book, go to page

117. The church is the

only large scale institution in

society that is accountable for and

capable of fostering such an

authentic rhythm.

And I think that's one of the main reasons I

wrote a whole book on Sabbath was to say

that to say, if the church doesn't

get this one together and figure out

how to lead and guide and teach a

Sabbath practice, none of the rest of us are

going to get to have it. Um, and

our values, those of us who

embrace the value of Sabbath on

a personal level are going to find that it

puts us in contradiction with the lives of

our churches. And that's a very hard dilemma

that is going to create a real dilemma for

people who are trying to go to church and be

faithful to a spiritual community.

So, um,

once the bigger church gets it all worked

out, then the smaller small groups

can determine, now how are we going to

meet as small groups, um,

around this rhythm of Sabbath that we're all

embracing together. I think that

ties in, especially with something

you said, it might have even been in the

introduction. It was very early on in the

book where the idea of

Sabbath, uh, that

commandment is something that is

bidden, not forbidden.

And I think the church as a

whole, uh, culturally at

this point in time, is

pretty good at handling

the commandments that are forbidden,

but really bad at handling the

commandments that are bidden. Yeah, we're

bad at tithing, we're bad at, uh,

spending, uh, time in prayer. We're bad at

doing all the things we know we should be

doing. And we think we've got it covered

because we aren't doing the things we're not

supposed to be doing. Yeah. So

yeah, I think that's a great insight. Thank

you for sharing that. Uh, and

speaking of

all this, we're out of time,

but I would have loved to have covered

Sabbatical, which is really half of

your book. So we haven't even covered the

second half. But I'd love for you to

share a little bit about that.

And then if we have a moment, I don't know

if we're going to run out the clock here,

but about upcoming retreats that you

have with your. Ministry, uh, thank

you so much for asking about that. Because

honestly, this book began as a book

about Sabbatical. I wanted to write a

book on Sabbatical because when I received

my first Sabbatical, I couldn't find

anything to give me guidance

on Sabbatical. And so I

was very much wanting to write

a book on Sabbatical. But then the publisher

asked if I would combine that with a book

on Sabbath, which became a really good

choice, because what I'm really convinced of

now is that it's really hard to enter into

Sabbatical effectively and fruitfully if you

haven't learned the dynamics of Sabbath

keeping. Because Sabbath keeping,

um, all the dynamics and

the underpinnings and um,

the practices of it, and the discipline that

they all carry over into Sabbatical. And

Sabbatical is just an extended time of

Sabbath. So everything that you learn in

your Sabbath keeping then informs

what you do in your Sabbatical. And

Sabbatical is just an extension of your

Sabbath practice. And

particularly, um, for the

clergy, for people who are pastors,

um, Sabbatical

is particularly fruitful

because clergy

person's life usually has them on call

at all hours of the day or night. Um,

Sunday is always coming, so

they're preparing preaching every single

week, pouring out way more than the normal

parishioner does spiritually. And so

that's where the idea of giving

clergy a longer Sabbatical actually

comes from. Now, I also think it's very

valuable for others as well. Unfortunately,

the business community is also

beginning to adopt this idea of Sabbatical

and realize that human beings just

need an opportunity from the

agricultural perspective. We need an

opportunity for the soil of our souls

to lie fallow. We know that

in agricultural

situations that every seven years the land

lies fallow. And we don't plant it because

the land needs to regain some of its

nutrition. So it comes from the biblical

idea of Sabbath, but it also comes from the

agricultural rhythms. And

so the next half of the book is about how

to plan for and unplug

and, um, engage in a significant

Sabbatical season and how

to be, um, nourished and

replenished and meet God in those

places. And so I have a particular

passion about that because, um,

I think it's something that we're still

grappling with, and I think oftentimes it's

not embedded in the employment

agreements and things like that, as it could

be. Some denominations actually have

it embedded in their denominational policies

and practices, but many independent

churches don't have

a Sabbatical embedded in their call papers

or the employment agreement or whatever. And

I highly suggest that

for a community that wants to identify

itself as a Sabbath community, that the

Sabbath policy for pastors and clergy is

actually, um, embedded in their

policies and in their procedures.

Uh, shifting gears a little bit

the last few minutes of our time. Tell

us a little bit about your

work and you have a couple of upcoming

events. Tell us a little bit. About what

those are and, uh,

how people can be a part of that.

Yes. Well, the Transforming Center, um,

as we said, it's existed for 20 years.

And the core offering, our whole

ministry is organized around our core

offering, which we call the Transforming

Community Experience. And it is a

27 month experience

delivered in nine quarterly retreats. It's

a cohort so that pastors and

leaders sign up to be a part of a

cohort. And there's a covenant, and

they covenant to stay with each other

through the 27 months. Um,

and so they come here to Chicago,

um, once a quarter. We meet at a lovely,

lovely retreat center, and we enter into

rhythms of six hour prayer and solitude

and, um,

experiences with different spiritual

practices. There's an inner rhythm to the

retreats where we, uh, come in, take off our

leadership hats. We are soul in God's

presence for the first night and day. And

then in the evening, we practice group

spiritual direction as our way of being

together in smaller groups. Um, so we're

experiencing, uh, the emphasis of that

practice in a communal

environment. And then the next morning,

somewhere along the way, we switch gears and

start to focus on the leadership

applications of those practices.

So it's very practice based,

but, um, with a leadership

emphasis, how do these things relate to our

lives in leadership? And so our

next Transforming Community starts in June

of 2023. We are

accepting applications already. Um,

we actually have an early deadline

coming up for August 31. Um, so

people can get a bit of a discount if they

were to sign up before August 31.

Um, and so, yeah, it's an

application, and

it's a good application process in terms of

us trying to identify where you are in your

life with God that would cause you to want

to sign up for something like this, because

that's a significant commitment. I call

it an immersion experience in

spiritual formation for leaders.

Um, an immersion experience in

transforming leadership, if you will.

Um, so people need to know that it's

a significant commitment. They

need to be ready. And we'll help you

discern that through the application

process. That does sound like a very

sacred time. Honestly, it sounds very

special. Yeah. Uh, Ruth, thank you so

much for your time. One of the best parts

about being in a podcast like this

is the fact that a lot of times, if you're

listening to somebody, like, normally, if

you're just listening to a podcast, you're

something interesting. Like, I'd love to ask

them about that. Well, now, uh, I got

to yes, indeed. I'm

glad for that, too.

Well, thank you. Thanks for a good

conversation and for your passion for it. I

really appreciate it. My pleasure.


episode really just took a surface level

look at Sabbath and barely even

introduced the topic of

Sabbatical. If you want to go deeper,

check out Ruth Hailey Barton's book,

embracing rhythms of work and rest

by winning a copy from US or by

purchasing an early release

copy directly from Interactive

Press. Or you can just wait

for the regular release in October and buy

it from Amazon. All of

these will have linked in the Show Notes

below, so just go. Ahead and read that if

you want. To jump on it.

We will be giving out a pair of

the books and there are two

different ways to enter. We

will choose the winners via Ah random

drawing on September 7. If you're

still hearing this, that means we haven't

done the drawing yet. The

first method of entering is to

leave a review for this

podcast on your podcast player of

choice. It doesn't even have to be a

good review, it can be any

review. Just take a screenshot of

your review and send it to me at



and you can also find that in the Show

Notes. The second method is to

find luma's on Facebook and

leave a comment on the contest

post with your favorite or

best Sabbath tip.

So whatever tip you have for

keeping the Sabbath, we want to see that in

the comment. And that post will be pinned at

the top of the Facebook page to make it

easier for you to find. So you

can enter as many times as you want both

ways and you will actually

increase your odds to win. Good luck

and I can't wait to talk with you on

the next fifth Wednesday.