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Each week, Amanda Campbell interviews amazing people, who will share their inspiring stories of resilience. Amanda dives deep into 40-minute DNM’s with guests, exploring their stories of how they have overcome adversity in their lives professionally and personally.
00:00:00:17 - 00:00:32:23
Unknown
Welcome to the Bend Like Bamboo Podcast. I'm your host, Amanda Campbell, kinesiology resilience coach and author who knows what it feels like when your body betrays you or burnout nearly breaks you. This podcast is for those healing from chronic conditions and autoimmune disease and also for leaders navigating burnout and overwhelm. You're about to hear real stories of transformation, the messy middle, the breakthrough moments, the science and practical tools that actually work.
00:00:33:00 - 00:01:04:09
Unknown
Because resilience isn't about being unbreakable. It's about learning to bend without breaking. Let's dive in. So I'm so excited to introduce you to today's guest, Russ Shot. Russ is a self-development coach facilitator to trainer and speaker with over 30 years of experience helping people to grow into stronger leaders and more confident individuals. But here's what I love about Russ's approach.
00:01:04:15 - 00:01:31:07
Unknown
He discovered something that most leadership experts miss. The tools that we use to develop leaders are just as powerful for personal growth. The same strategies that help executives communicate more effectively at work. They transform relation shifts at home and skills that help leaders navigate conflict in the boardroom. They help us show up better for the people that we love.
00:01:31:09 - 00:02:20:02
Unknown
Roz has worked across every Stripe state in Australia, New Zealand, Asia and beyond, supporting thousands of people across countries from construction and finance to education and corrections. He's been tested, questioned and challenged by some of the sharpest minds, and that pressure has refined his coaching. Until it's practical, relevant and easy to apply in everyday life. He's the author of Listening A Guide to Building Deeper Connections and a book that takes decades of experience teaching leaders to listen more effectively and distills it into practical tools that you can use when the people that you love are feeling vulnerable, worried, upset, or even scared.
00:02:20:04 - 00:02:50:06
Unknown
With a master's degree in communication management and certifications in human synergy sticks, situational leadership and NLP and more. Russ brings both deep expertise and real world practicality to the conversation about leadership and personal growth. Ross, welcome to the Bend Like Bamboo Podcast. Thank you. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you so much for sending me your book and I'm really enjoying it.
00:02:50:06 - 00:03:16:01
Unknown
I'm going to take it away with me next week when I'm off in Tassie. But I've really looked into your work. You've you've just you've got incredible insights to share. Thank you so much for being on the podcast today. Now, look, it's a book I really appreciate the opportunity to share. It's just great to have the chance to share with more people, Oh, let's get this out there because your work was really important and I think it's going to help a lot of people.
00:03:16:01 - 00:03:40:19
Unknown
And you've been in this game for a long time helping a lot of people. How long now? 30 years. Yeah. Look, I say 30. It's a bit more than that. But yeah. Thirties enough isn't it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, what do you think? Inspire do to do this work. It's actually it came about almost by accident. Um, so the kind of history tree story is I was just a young guy.
00:03:40:19 - 00:04:04:18
Unknown
I really didn't know what he wanted to do. Heavily into the outdoors, started guiding in the outdoors, started running school out there, Education programs, realized that wasn't for me. Yeah, but that was 40 something years ago when the corporate world was getting interested in that as a and there were people proposing the idea of what we do in the outdoors will teach you good leadership skills.
00:04:04:20 - 00:04:26:09
Unknown
And so I got involved in that side of things, and it basically my career has progressed from there. I've moved indoors as I've learned more or studied more, went back and studied, just loved it, loved every minute of it, every facet of the different approaches that I've been a part of has been fascinating. Yeah, that's awesome. So it just really happened naturally.
00:04:26:12 - 00:04:47:11
Unknown
You must biological as well as your intellect, where you kind of knew start to become very knowledgeable on these topics. But maybe there was something deeper inside that just guided you to to keep following your path. Absolutely. And there really was and I've often thought about the road not traveled, what would have happened if X had happened, but I still think I would have ended up here.
00:04:47:13 - 00:05:11:04
Unknown
Yeah, I still think wherever I ended up it would have been in this space because there's a I don't know, there's something really refreshing and rewarding and it's it's just great to be part of someone else's journey and to help someone in a way that makes such a tangible difference. Yeah, I can remember as a kid I was motivated to help, you know, just like helping people.
00:05:11:04 - 00:05:38:08
Unknown
I want to help people. Yeah. And practical. That's real. That's, you know, makes a difference. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's a beautiful loss. That's so beautiful. I get to meet so many amazing people on this podcast. I'm very lucky. Yeah. And there are so many amazing people out there. Yes. We need to keep remembering. I totally agree. And to have more and more conversations like this is, you know, kind of like my dream job.
00:05:38:10 - 00:06:02:20
Unknown
Mm hmm. Yeah. Good on. Yeah. Let's dive in. I want to ask you, with that 30 years of experience that you have had in leadership development and you've worked with everyone from frontline leaders to music teachers to prison officers. Somewhere along that journey you discovered that something very powerful that the leadership tools you were teaching in corporate workshops were actually transforming people's personal lives too.
00:06:02:20 - 00:06:27:22
Unknown
And I align with this because I'm a kinase geologist, mainly helping people originally with their personal wellbeing. But then my HEAL program became Thrive, which is, you know, all the lessons I learned healing also I learned applied to performance and, you know, fast paced environment, innovative environment start ups. And so I went sort of the opposite way. And so I really align with what your what you've done there.
00:06:28:03 - 00:06:51:06
Unknown
Where take us back to that realization when you started to to realize that. And what was the moment when you saw that self leadership was the foundation not just for professional success, but personal transformation for people as well? Mm hmm. Thanks. So I think there's kind of two as I think about that, that there's two levels to that question.
00:06:51:08 - 00:07:11:20
Unknown
So the first level level of just realizing that it helps people, I've always known and it's always been part of the motivation. And even when I was taking people into the bush and getting them to just work together, they'd come away with something euphoric, saying something. I knew that that would would benefit them in their personal lives. But that helps with relationships.
00:07:11:20 - 00:07:39:09
Unknown
It helps with how you turn up. But I think there's a deeper realization if we take it even further, there's a deeper realization that I've probably only got to in the last decade or so around the importance, the absolute importance of understanding your self more to be a good leader. And for me, that's a deeper level of self-discovery.
00:07:39:09 - 00:08:03:09
Unknown
It's a deeper level of that's more than just helping you in your personal life. It's it's actually helping you as a person and helping you realize who you are as a person. I mean, I've never seen myself historically. If I look back, I never saw myself as someone you could akin to being in the personal development space. I always saw that that needed some other kind of guru to be in that space.
00:08:03:11 - 00:08:21:07
Unknown
And in the last decade or so, I've kind of accepted actually now I'm in the personal development space. It's what we need to do. In fact, it's where we need to start with with almost everything that we're doing. And so I think that's what prompted me to then go on and start thinking about while in the personal development space.
00:08:21:12 - 00:08:44:22
Unknown
Yeah, well, I like to help most and that's what's what prompted and spawned the book Listening. Yeah, well, it's kind of what prompted me to finally write the book. So seeing were you noticing that in your personal life there was a connection or was it more watching the leaders that you were training and how they improved in their personal lives over time?
00:08:44:22 - 00:09:07:24
Unknown
But all of the above. Yeah, yeah, all of the above. I think there was a period for myself where, you know, in my own personal life I probably didn't apply enough of what I was doing. It was a and I can remember one particular I used to be a lot heavier than I am now by a factor of 25 kilos or almost 30 kilos.
00:09:08:01 - 00:09:31:18
Unknown
And I can remember standing in front of a group talking about setting goals, and I'm quite passionate about setting goals correctly so that they integrate with your neurology so that you then achieve them and if we don't do that, if we don't set the goal correctly, then we're probably going to self-sabotage it because we need to get our beliefs aligned, we need to get our identity aligned, we need to get all of us aligned to that goal.
00:09:31:20 - 00:09:56:10
Unknown
And I can remember I'd set myself a goal to lose weight. And I was talking to this group and in my head the words physician, heal thyself were screaming. And it was that's an expression that my mentor, when I studied NLP, she was a wonderful mentor. Um, she kept saying that if you want to study NLP, you've got to apply it to yourself.
00:09:56:10 - 00:10:15:10
Unknown
Physician heal myself. She just kept saying, Physician heal myself. So and I remember standing in front of that group and I walked away, came back, went back to all my models. Um, and after a couple of years of not losing weight, went back to all my models, applied them properly, applied them in the way I'm telling other people to apply them.
00:10:15:12 - 00:10:45:15
Unknown
And suddenly my own journey changed. Um, and here I am, much fitter, much healthier, achieving what I want to achieve. Uh, you know, it's been a transformation and that was all about that. You've got to apply all of this to yourself. Um, yeah. Wow. So then what was that main shift that occurred? Was it in practicality? Was it in strategy or was it in mindset that led to you going back and applying your models properly?
00:10:45:15 - 00:11:13:24
Unknown
And then it worked. What was the difference when it didn't work? Um, the there's probably three or four answers to that, but the one I focus on, the main difference when it didn't work was one of the things I stressed. When you set a goal is you have to set the goal for what you want, not want. What you don't want is the biggest example of that that I have.
00:11:14:01 - 00:11:32:00
Unknown
So if you put the word weight in your goal, you're putting the word of what you don't want in your goal. Yeah, and most people really struggle with that. And I was, you know, I'd set myself a weight target and I'd done all the things I thought, but it was like I went back and went, Ross, you tell people not to do this, so what do you want?
00:11:32:00 - 00:11:46:22
Unknown
And so I reframed it completely for myself. It became healthy, active lifestyle. I wanted to get. I used to do a lot of outdoor activities. I wanted to do them again. I wanted to get out hiking, I wanted to get out doing all of that. And it just wasn't as feasible in the shape that I was in. Yeah.
00:11:46:23 - 00:12:14:02
Unknown
So that that shift of stop thinking about what you don't want, start thinking about what you do want was a major that then spawned into it was much easier then to be committed. So if we talk about weight loss, it's predominantly food. What you eat is 80% of weight, you know, in terms of if you want to lose weight, 80% of the issue is going to be changing your diet.
00:12:14:04 - 00:12:31:24
Unknown
Yes. So becoming more active was part of the equation, but it was only a small part of the equation. But it was easier to be committed to doing the activity and it was easy to be committed to the diet and it was really just a dietary change. It wasn't a diet as such, Um, because the two then went hand in hand.
00:12:31:24 - 00:13:05:23
Unknown
The activity was then supporting and then the dietary change was supporting and then it basically adds it and then the achievement started happening and they then sustain. Yeah, yeah. And, and the next one I remember deciding I want it to be, I used to run quite a lot and I couldn't at this stage I had two dogs, I had a fat Labrador and a healthy kaboodle and I can remember I'd walk them and I would then pick a telegraph pole and I'd run to that telegraph power, or I'd choose steps, toe steps, and I'd run, and then I'd be huffing and puffing.
00:13:06:00 - 00:13:26:17
Unknown
And so my goal got my first goal was just to be able to run continuously, to not have to stop. Um, and once I got to that, then I reshaped the goal, what's my next goal? And then it just as, as you achieve one, you get motivation for the next one, etcetera. Absolutely. And you know what? You know, that's an amazing goal you achieve.
00:13:26:17 - 00:13:53:07
Unknown
By the way, congratulations on losing that weight and things must feel amazing now. Yeah, I resonate with that because when I, I needed to achieve almost what felt like impossible when I was paralyzed in a wheelchair, having met and diagnosed at 24, paralyzed by 29 are a huge part of what I think created that transformation for my recovery and achieving walking and running again.
00:13:53:07 - 00:14:26:05
Unknown
When it was told, when it was said to me, it was probably Won't happen was focusing on what I wanted. And I think that as a kinesiology just and maybe you're great studying NLP is what that does when we focus on what we do want is we have more promoting. You know, it brings us out of that survival fight or flight stress response, which, you know, adrenaline, cortisol, you know, degeneration, inflammation, but also a different mindset which is more victim and battle and everything's hard and it's challenging.
00:14:26:07 - 00:15:05:09
Unknown
Whereas when we focus on what we want for me and also once I've researched the science behind this, I realized not only did that change what I could see around me as opportunity and how I was perceiving what was possible around me, different opportunities and shifting in a mindset of my challenges. But internally, my biochemistry started to shift and when I learned about the different pathways of survival and inflammation and stress versus when your body comes out of that and chooses growth and repair pathways instead, It was the only way that I could explain my miraculous recovery, which has lasted for 16 years now, of total remission.
00:15:05:11 - 00:15:29:17
Unknown
MM. Wow. Wow. So I really. That's what you're saying. Yeah. And it's, and it's a fascinating story and I wonder how many people would hear that story and just in their mind, they questioning, you know, is it true? Is it really did that really happen just because it's it's amazing. And yet, in my experience, I've spoken to quite a few people who've had similar experiences.
00:15:29:19 - 00:15:55:10
Unknown
Yeah. That the power of when we get aligned within our neurology, within our mentality, within everything about ourselves and focused forward, there's just amazing power that comes from that. So it's that and that's a great example. It's a wonderful example. And the other thing that was really important too was what I surrounded myself with. I started to research other stories of people that recovered when they weren't supposed to.
00:15:55:12 - 00:16:19:13
Unknown
And also I wanted to understand why people, you know, that were really healthy, exercising, eating good food, but they became sick. And you know what we believe is what really matters. And I think hearing other stories of recovery, which is why a lot of people find me as an resilience coach and a kinesiology that specializes in autoimmune recovery is I am the practitioner in the patient.
00:16:19:13 - 00:16:44:07
Unknown
So I have that. You know, it's an example of hope. Um, you know, with all of my work, I do understand that with, you know, and you might find this in the leadership space, but with autoimmune recovery, you know, some people do recover and some people don't. And so my work has been very much about just creating the best environment possible in the mind and body and biochemistry to facilitate healing.
00:16:44:09 - 00:17:01:18
Unknown
And oh, gosh, I could talk to you for hours on this topic. We're sort of going off path here, but it's okay. Just sort of understanding that mindset, isn't it? On Yeah, what happens when people and leaders move more into performance and recovery? Why does it work for them and why does it not work for others? What do you think?
00:17:01:18 - 00:17:28:22
Unknown
Yeah, I think it's a really tough question. Why does it not work for some? And I know some people and I could see no reason from where I'm sitting that it would not work for them. And yet there is there's a link. It's interesting in in an op ed piece, a really interesting thing to study because it's kind of not an organized science.
00:17:28:22 - 00:17:54:19
Unknown
It's a neurological science that has a whole bunch of tools and methodologies that almost got cobbled together. Yeah. And one of them, which I'll use as an example, is what they call the allergy cure and analogy cure. You know, the assumption in NLP is that your body is simply reacting inappropriately to a foreign substance. So it's an inappropriate cellular response to a foreign substance.
00:17:54:20 - 00:18:18:21
Unknown
And so what we do is we go back to we just do a, uh, guided, uh, thought process is what I would call it, and we go back to that originating reaction and we change it. And if we can do that, we then change the pathways back to now and we can eliminate the reaction. And, you know, I hadn't played with that, but I had a massive cat allergy.
00:18:18:21 - 00:18:42:13
Unknown
And he, you know, his girlfriend had a cat and so it was a bit of a problem. Yeah. And he was like, well, we were talking about it, so could you try it? And we'll see what happens. Yeah, let's give it a crack. So we did, we did the allergy cure, which is a basically a tool or method, um, cannon of, of opportunities.
00:18:42:15 - 00:19:06:10
Unknown
And I did that with him and the crazy part about it all this is how powerful it is, is that we know cats. It was in my office. So no cats anywhere near this building? Yeah. And as he was telling me about it, I said to him, Just pretend the cat just jumped up on your legs and feel what you would feel if that happened.
00:19:06:12 - 00:19:24:04
Unknown
And his skin color started to change, his breathing started to change, and all the allergy reactions started to happen. And I got I let it happen enough that he noticed it and I noticed it. And then I stopped him and said, You realize this is weird, right? Like, there's no cat here. You're just reacting to the suggestion of a cat.
00:19:24:06 - 00:19:47:23
Unknown
Anyway, we went on to did the allergy cure, and then that night he went to his girlfriend's apartment and he had no reaction whatsoever. So it was a fascinating, fascinating. So the reason I mention that is because there is definitely a mental side, because that could only be explained around the integration of mentality with our physicality. You know, in urology, our entire neurology, that could only be explained through that.
00:19:48:00 - 00:20:19:23
Unknown
There's definitely that side of it, but there is also definitely a chemical side to some of these things. Yeah, and identifying which ones which so some people will respond through the neurological pathway. Yeah. Other people may not because their issue actually is different and it does actually exist at a chemical cellular level that won't be impacted by neurological and I think that challenge between the two is identifying which is, which is something I could never do.
00:20:20:00 - 00:20:40:07
Unknown
Um, and it's difficult. Yeah. And it creates a problem to the people that don't get fixed. Yeah. Because they then start to wonder what's wrong with them then. Yeah. What's wrong with me? How come that worked for him or her? And why won't it work for me? I'm trying to do it the best I can. Yeah. Um, so it's a challenging.
00:20:40:07 - 00:21:04:03
Unknown
There is some challenge around that space. Sorry, that was a bit long winded. I'm still constantly observing case studies in my clients of why and when that happens. And what I think is, you know what is it can physiologist I'm trying to, you know, assess my clients on multi levels of structure, physical, biochemical, emotional and energetic and spiritual.
00:21:04:05 - 00:21:51:07
Unknown
And when you have an a physical injury, for example, and it's very difficult to get into that part of the body that's experiencing pain, for example, might be ligament or part of the feature that you can't physically palpate or release because we're completely connected on all of those levels using Chinese medicine and working on the meridians and releasing energy and creating more flow in the lower of the five elements because that shift and also potentially addressing an emotion that might be stuck in the body at the same time can create a release which then shifts the biochemistry as well as the physical skeletal alignment of the body and, you know, tissues and ligaments and fascia
00:21:51:07 - 00:22:12:03
Unknown
they can release as well. Simply by working on energy, you can create a huge change physically in the body and so on everyone's mind. You know, people will come to me with arms, for example, but one person needed more energetic work, another one needed more physical work, another one in biochemical nutrition. So it's all multi layers. Exactly what you're saying is.
00:22:12:05 - 00:22:37:16
Unknown
So I guess the answer is how to work on that multi-layered approach so that maybe it's you're covering all bases and can any one person do that to that full to the fullest extent? Yeah. You know, of all the different pieces that we may, you know, if somebody could have access to all the potential that my wife and I ran a natural therapies clinic for a while, she she was a midwife who'd been studying naturopathy.
00:22:37:18 - 00:22:57:12
Unknown
Um, and one of the things I learned being associated with that was that of all the different things we had, we had a kinesiology, we had a psychologist, we had a, we had all the, you know, acupuncturist, etc., etc., um, chiropractor. And you know, I'd watch somebody come in, see one person come back out going, Oh, you know, that was rubbish.
00:22:57:12 - 00:23:24:09
Unknown
And then someone else would go see that person. That was amazing. And you know what a a learned was different. And so, you know, would it be possible to have one person that had all of those tools at their disposal? That would be a big ask. Yeah, but yeah, finding the right tool and the right approach if you're going to love, um, when you get into section two of the book listening, yeah, you're going to love it.
00:23:24:09 - 00:23:48:22
Unknown
Because what I've done in the air is to be doing values. And I know values is something that a lot of people and a lot of gurus like to use. And I get a bit frustrated, particularly when I see gurus providing a list that you can choose from. But I just because we confuse values, we confuse different types of values.
00:23:48:22 - 00:24:13:04
Unknown
We try to compare values because values are a comparative thing. So the whole idea of valuing something is we are saying it's more valuable than something else, and it's good to do that in life. It's good to say that. Anyway. So what I've done is I've put together a process of working out your values that integrates five distinct levels of values.
00:24:13:06 - 00:24:36:16
Unknown
So you need to understand what your outcome values are. And then if one you set those outcome values, So what are the outcomes in life that you value the most? Yeah, right. So what are the things that you want out of life? So it might be health, it might be career, it might be whatever you want. But then once you decide on that, there are integrations, and this is why I'm mentioning this, there are integrations that need to occur.
00:24:36:18 - 00:24:58:24
Unknown
So once we get the outcome value, the next one is to think about what's the behavioral role, value that support that. So how do I need to behave in order to achieve that outcome? Then the next one is the thought processes or the mindsets or the beliefs. So what are the beliefs that I need to start thinking to myself in order to support that that value?
00:24:59:01 - 00:25:16:08
Unknown
And then the next one down is the identity and I've referred to that is the character values. So what are the character traits that I will need to create, the identity I need to support that outcome that I want to achieve? And then why? Why does it all matter? What's my greater purpose? There needs to be some bigger reason for all of this.
00:25:16:08 - 00:25:36:15
Unknown
So what's the big purpose now when you get all of that? What I've found with people as I've started using that three or four years ago and working through it is there'll be an element of that where they're getting caught. So one aspect of that is where they haven't, and often it's the mindsets. People struggle at that belief level.
00:25:36:20 - 00:26:05:14
Unknown
Yeah, and you know, we started the conversation talking about that, you know, personal leadership. And one of the biggest things a leader can do is understand their belief patterns. And because your belief patterns drive you. So if and and not many people know how to understand their belief patterns. So one of the things I talk about is just listen, listen to your inner voice because it speaks from your beliefs.
00:26:05:19 - 00:26:25:01
Unknown
That's right. So if Rust or, you know, Amanda says we need to do this kind of work and your inner voice goes, What? That what? You know, that's garbage, then, okay, You've got a belief about the value of that kind of work, about whether it's going to make a difference. And you need to challenge that belief and who knows where that belief came from.
00:26:25:01 - 00:26:41:24
Unknown
But you need to challenge that belief if you want to be true to the outcome, if you want to be true to the behaviors, if you want to be true to all the levels, and discovering what those beliefs are, which are very heated and often suppressed in another way, then I train my clients to discover their beliefs. Is noticing their reactions.
00:26:42:01 - 00:27:05:17
Unknown
Yes, we've got two people that have the same morning. They're late for work. They've lost their case. One is feeling rushed and clouded and stressed and not really in a great place in their life. And they might respond like this. Oh, of course I lost my case. Not another thing today versus another person who's more centered and relaxed and last pretty good and aligned, great self esteem, great sense of self-worth.
00:27:05:17 - 00:27:24:19
Unknown
They believe in themselves. They believe they can accomplish their goals. They might respond a little bit differently and forget I lost my case. Oh, well, I'm just going to catch an Uber. I'll solve it later. You're more solution focused, but you didn't get us triggered. And maybe that first person was believing. Well, actually, nothing really is good is happening for me at the moment.
00:27:24:19 - 00:27:54:00
Unknown
In the case just triggered that little wound, which is a great discovery to all of What am I actually believing? Yeah, spot on. Absolutely. And what a lot of people struggle with because both of us are using an approach that requires some reverse engineering. There's an honesty to that. You know, if you reverse engineering from I lost my case, my reaction to that, if you reverse engineer from that reaction, you'll realize, oh, actually there's some stuff going on for me here.
00:27:54:02 - 00:28:35:05
Unknown
Um, and I'm saying basically this you've got to reverse engineer. Why did I think that? What's the belief that drove that thought? That takes some real honest reflection and both can be really useful and both are critical in that journey of getting to where you want to get to. Yeah. So if you set yourself a goal, you set yourself a target, whatever it might be, getting to the achievement of that target, you've got to for me, you, I refer to it as integrating all those levels I just talked about in, in your case you would be integrating a whole bunch of other things, but they've all got to be integrated to get to that target.
00:28:35:07 - 00:28:58:05
Unknown
Um, yeah. And that's, that's hard. That's hard. That can be hard work for people to do. That's right. Well, that's why I need really six months with someone, because we got to understanding the concept of, you know, stress versus growth from repair pathways, what resilience means. Bending like bamboo is about flexibility and a bit of an assessment. Then we move into mind.
00:28:58:07 - 00:29:20:13
Unknown
Then we move into body and movement and integrating, you know, releasing stress and emotions and stuck beliefs in the body semantically and then nutrition, looking at the gut health and also the nutrients, what's eat, what not to eat. And everybody's different there as well. And then connection. So using meditation but also connection within yourself, connection within your relationships.
00:29:20:15 - 00:29:42:14
Unknown
And then the final pillar of health is journaling just a great tool that clients use to integrate the work. You know, all this beautiful new knowledge that, you know, sharing with them and them understanding themselves on this new level, but how to integrate that into a new way of being. And I also use a wristband that says I'm enough been like bamboo, which is just a tool that helps people.
00:29:42:17 - 00:30:04:08
Unknown
So not only think of this in the morning and not when they're hopefully meditating and journaling, but throughout the day as well. MM Nice and defined through that journey. One of those elements will be one that they really struggle with that they almost push back on. Yeah, yeah. And in my experience that's the one, That's the one that's the one that needs to work.
00:30:04:09 - 00:30:25:10
Unknown
That's the one that actually needs. Well, chapter two, I can't wait to get to that chapter because it looks like you've got a way to solve going deeper there for that person. Yeah, I forget what chapter two is. Chapter two when you were integrating those levels of the values. So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Deeper integrate the different levels of where a person often gets stuck.
00:30:25:10 - 00:30:43:22
Unknown
You mentioned that there's aspects to that one pillar that goes a little bit deeper, and I think I'm going to learn a lot from this book. Thank you so much. Because, you know, I, I do my best with my clients and get lots of amazing transformations, But sometimes we get stuck and it looks like you've got some deeper insights into why that occurs.
00:30:43:24 - 00:31:05:04
Unknown
It it's interesting. Um, and you talk about that self leadership and I've often wondered why I wrote a book on culture quite a while ago and that was, you know, in the corporate world. And, but this is the one I really put my heart into, you know, this, this book on listening. And I've wondered why did I choose listening is the first topic.
00:31:05:06 - 00:31:33:02
Unknown
Um, and I really put my soul into it, you know, like I put a lot of effort into this book, like it took a while to write. It took a long time to write. Um, and part of it was as I was writing it, that realization and that understanding of, um, really integrating it all properly. Because I think listening is one of these things that at an outcome level, so many people set it as an outcome.
00:31:33:04 - 00:31:55:21
Unknown
I need to listen more. I need to get better at least listening. I need to listen to my family more. If I had a dollar for everybody who's said that to me since I've written this book, you know I'd be a lot better off. Um, and it's one of those things that few people actually achieve. It's like the, it's like these resolutions, you know, we set them and then forget them.
00:31:55:23 - 00:32:22:00
Unknown
And it's listening is this classic of it's one that if that if you really want to do it well, you've got to integrate that decision into your full subconscious neurology to support that decision. Otherwise you're going to keep doing what you've always done, which is probably talking over the top of the other person or telling them your stories or asking lots of questions and diving deep, etc., etc., etc..
00:32:22:02 - 00:32:41:13
Unknown
So it's a it's interesting because listening for me is almost like the ultimate litmus test for whether or not we are actually achieving what we want to achieve. I would love it. I'd love to do a study and I never will, but I'd love to do a study of leaders and how many have thought in their career, You know what?
00:32:41:13 - 00:33:00:03
Unknown
I just need to stop and listen more, because that's actually, in my opinion, one of the great leadership skills. Stop and listen and really understand what that person's saying. And you will save yourself a lot of heartache. You'll save yourself a lot of time, you'll save yourself a lot of stress because you're suddenly realize all this saying the same thing as me.
00:33:00:05 - 00:33:17:12
Unknown
Oh, they want the same thing that I want. Oh, they're actually trying to achieve the same goal. Oh, they're not trying to sabotage or undermine or do any of those things. Um, and yet I'd love to know how many leaders have decided I need to listen more. Yeah, more. And just never, never done it. It is a classic.
00:33:17:14 - 00:33:32:22
Unknown
I don't know how to express this enough. It's a classic of the skills that we say I'm going to do that. And then we just don't. We fall into bad habits. And I guess, you know, to be up there with other things like dieting, you know, we say we're going to do it and we fall into bad habits.
00:33:32:24 - 00:33:49:22
Unknown
It's listening is a classic in that regard. Yeah, Yeah. Well, it's almost like, you know, we just need to put the word listening on our bathroom mirror post on the back of the toilet, like everywhere. So you just remember. You just remember. I guess that's what I'm working on. That's what I'm integrating into my life at the moment.
00:33:49:24 - 00:34:12:05
Unknown
And thank you for letting so well into question two, because that's exactly what I was going to ask you is what happens to our listening when we're in that reactive and stressed state multitasking, rushed and cluttered versus when we're more calm and then we listen more, then, you know what? What does that do for our leadership and for our personal lives?
00:34:12:07 - 00:34:43:21
Unknown
Oh, it kills it. So the minute we're in that state, it absolutely makes life difficult. And I don't think people understand that state is a physical state. So when you're in the state of rushing everywhere under the pump, it's all happening. Your physiology changes. Yeah. Um, and if you I'll give you a real quick example. When my daughter was little, she was going to a preschool and there was a little boy who was not talking much.
00:34:43:23 - 00:35:05:00
Unknown
He was well behind in his development in terms of his communication skills and he didn't want to go in. And my daughter was quite outgoing, quite very gregarious. So the mom realized the easiest way to get him inside was to wait until my daughter turned up because my wife and my daughter were pretty much always late. So she would just wait outside and then my daughter would pick him up.
00:35:05:00 - 00:35:33:23
Unknown
So come on, I'll call him Matthew. Come on, Matthew, you come and and he loved being with her. And so she would take him in. So, you know, the two moms got talking. Uh, the story comes back to me one day. I dropped Emily off at her preschool, and I watched this kid walk in, and I thought, Well, that's interesting because his gait troubled me, and it looked like he was or his heels were barely hitting the ground.
00:35:33:23 - 00:35:48:16
Unknown
He kind of walked on his toes. And what that said to me is that his calves were tight. So I went back in and just said to my wife, just tell me that she talked to you about his development. And she's like, Oh, yeah, they've been seeing doctors, They've been seeing all sorts of people. They spend a lot of money.
00:35:48:16 - 00:36:08:23
Unknown
They're very worried. He's not he's not communicating. I said, Well, just if you think she's up for a strange idea, just tell her to massages calves. It's not going to hurt. It's not going to hurt anything. It like if she does it. So she did. She told her and she did it within a couple of months he was talking and he was more open and he was, you know, becoming the little boy that he should have been.
00:36:09:00 - 00:36:32:14
Unknown
And it was a remarkable transformation. And the neurology type calves at a neurological level means I'm getting ready to run. It's the flight mode. Yeah. No, the remarkable thing about that story is I told it to a group at a, uh, Australia's only glass float line. So these are blue collar workers. I've shared that story with them. I was doing quite a bit of work with them.
00:36:32:19 - 00:36:49:11
Unknown
I came back a couple of months later and one of them came up to me. He says, Oh, that story you told? Absolutely worked. I'm like, What are you talking about? And he repeated the story back to me, then said he went and did it with his child who they were worried about and had the same transformation. And I'm like, Holy, wow.
00:36:49:11 - 00:37:13:02
Unknown
Like, that's, you know, that's what I live for. That's just awesome. Wow. But the point of the whole story was, you know, we we don't understand the strength of that neurological. You know, if your shoulders are tense, your body goes into flight mode and you won't think clearly if you calves are tense, your body's in flight mode and you won't think clearly.
00:37:13:02 - 00:37:35:02
Unknown
And you can't communicate when you can't think, know and if we go back to what happened during COVID, we saw this happening at a global level. People were worried and stressed they're losing their jobs, worried about being able to pay their mortgages. It was a stressful time for so many people. And what did we see? We saw a lot of really irrational behavior.
00:37:35:04 - 00:37:58:15
Unknown
Yeah. You know, hoarding toilet paper like it just yeah, people. And it wasn't because they were they just they couldn't think clearly and became more selfish because that's what we do when we go into survival. We become, yeah, selfish. We can't, we shut down. And on the calves, like in Chinese medicine, we look at the hot area and the pericardium meridian, and that's a form of how we protect ourselves.
00:37:58:17 - 00:38:28:14
Unknown
So massaging the calves might have also released a little bit of emotional protection that might have been going on, which also tightened the calves. Yeah, it's a multi-layered, isn't it? But when we're relaxed and scented and, you know, less stressed, we are less selfish and we're more solution focused and we're kinder and we help others and we can listen if we get back to the what the question was about it, you know, can we listen?
00:38:28:16 - 00:38:49:10
Unknown
Listen, when we're stressed, we're going to dive into and if we and it's a double edged sword, a double edged sword, whatever the expression is, it's a yeah, it's a self-fulfilling benefit, because the more you listen, the less stressed you will be. And so then the less stressed you become, the more you can listen and then the more you listen and so on and on it goes.
00:38:49:12 - 00:39:21:05
Unknown
Um, I really need to take this on because, you know, when you learn about your archetypes or your leadership, you know, values and you know your superpowers, one of mine is challenge to the opposite, to listening and growing up, I, I had to challenge to get myself and navigate through difficult situations. And that's what how I survived. And so I've had to really learn when it when there's a time to be it in my challenge and that, you know, I can negotiate well.
00:39:21:05 - 00:39:48:07
Unknown
And, you know, I challenge, you know, things that I believe in and the status quo. And I try to reimagine what can be possible for myself and for other people. But there's also a time to not challenge. Yeah, you know, that's why I love your work. It's really helping to remind me of. Then there's a time to bring that the listening skill in and someone like me would have to think about it more consciously.
00:39:48:09 - 00:40:11:12
Unknown
Yeah, And look, that's one of the things that I advocate strongly in the book is I'm not trying to change your general day to day listening skills. I actually don't want to change those. You, everybody, we all do fine in life. You know, we're getting by. What I am trying to do is give people people an option to more effectively when it matters.
00:40:11:14 - 00:40:33:11
Unknown
And so there's a process in the book. Section three is actually a process. And step one in that process is recognize that this is one of those moments when it matters. So the premise of the book is the people you care about. So it was written for the personal development market, the people you care about. There will be times that I really need your support and I use an example with my daughter.
00:40:33:11 - 00:40:54:14
Unknown
It starts the whole book. She came to talk to me. She loitered in the doorway. She gave me hints and clues that said, This is not me being normal. This is me being troubled. And I recognize that she was troubled. You know, she was a bit hesitant. She was, you know, loitering, etc.. So then I recognized, okay, my normal listening skills won't cut it.
00:40:54:16 - 00:41:17:04
Unknown
I need to do something different. And in those moments, for me, it means I do not talk. And so I went into that conversation with her determined not to talk unless I was summarizing what she said. So that's part of the process. What she talked about was school and issues at school. Now, my instinct as the father was to dive in and sort that out.
00:41:17:07 - 00:41:35:05
Unknown
You know, I wanted to talk to teachers. I wanted to talk to parents. I wanted to sort out the kids that were doing this to her. Um, and none of that was what she needed. Now, as as the conversation continued, we got to a point where it became obvious that the school issue was under control. Not really an issue to.
00:41:35:07 - 00:41:57:13
Unknown
I then made a comment about Let's bring your mother into the conversation, and she reacted badly to that. And what became obvious was the thing that caused her to loiter in the doorway was an issue with her relationship with her mother, nothing to do with school. And so then we resolved that. And, you know, I've been eternally grateful ever since that I was able to help repair that relationship when she was ten years old.
00:41:57:15 - 00:42:22:18
Unknown
Um, now the point of that story is that when somebody is really troubled, they never start with the real issue. Yeah, so I'm only I knew I'm trying to enhance listening skills. When you recognize this is one of those moments, then we can get past that issue they started with and hopefully get to the deeper issue. So it's about having all of the skills.
00:42:22:18 - 00:42:42:21
Unknown
Like what? The reason I'm saying this is you talk about being a challenger. That's that's a such an important skill. You know, I would not want to switch that off in you. What I'd want to do is add the option of there will be times where I to be the listener. Yeah. And now I've got that I can recognize when that is.
00:42:42:21 - 00:43:05:02
Unknown
And I've got the skill to actually do that. Listening to that depth, it takes a conscious effort, but we can do it. So it's interesting because since I wrote the book, a lot of people keep talking about it and applying it generally in their life. And I'm even two leaders out there. I'm not trying to advocate that you suddenly stop talking and become the greatest listener in the world all the time.
00:43:05:04 - 00:43:30:00
Unknown
Yeah, but you would be smart and wise to start recognizing that person's behaving a bit differently or I don't think they're telling me the whole story or I don't think this is really what's going on and learn to listen in those moments, moments when your interest tells you, hang on. Yes. And and you know what? What's really lucky is every time I see a new client, my job is to just super listen.
00:43:30:02 - 00:44:02:14
Unknown
Yeah. Of what's what's going on under there. Like this is what we're presenting we emotionally physically biochemically symptoms but then what's actually going on. And then when you get to do that all day, every day, there are patterns, There are, you know, so synergistic aspects and also, you know, uniquely individual blocks that, you know, blow my mind. And just I think that if we could all just listen a little bit more, it makes the other person feel more heard and more loved.
00:44:02:16 - 00:44:35:20
Unknown
Oh, yeah. And then we're going to work better within our relationships, especially at home. But yet I work as well. And that's what resilience means to me. Yeah. Nice. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Yeah, I totally agree. Yeah. It's interesting going. No, no, no. You going. Oh, I was going to say it's interesting when we think about it at a leadership perspective, it's actually not natural for a leader If we think about the path that a leader follows.
00:44:35:22 - 00:44:59:07
Unknown
Yeah, they're very first leadership role that they, they are the guru, they are the team leader or leading hand of a technical task and they tell everybody what to do. So they're not listeners. They're not. And that sets up a set of beliefs and an identity about what leadership means and what leadership is. And it sets a purpose.
00:44:59:07 - 00:45:29:11
Unknown
Why? Why? I'm a leader. I'm a leader so I can tell them what to do. Yes, that's true. If that leader never questions that purpose, they get to more senior roles. Still telling everybody what to do. Now they can all survive and they can achieve business outcomes. Stress comes with that approach and a whole bunch of difficulty and challenge and turnover of staff and lose losing good people and not hearing great ideas and all the rest of it comes with that approach.
00:45:29:13 - 00:46:07:18
Unknown
And somewhere in that journey we've got to shift help them shift and we can install it. They need to think about it and decide for themselves. They need that process in front of them. And that's where my work at the moment is really taking me is down that track of how do I help leaders work through that so that they can identify the purpose and identity and beliefs that they need in their current role to be really successful, not just superficially successful, but really successful, which for me means life is good work.
00:46:07:18 - 00:46:40:06
Unknown
Life balance is good. If I lose my keys, I'm not punching everybody in the face. You know, all of that sort of thing. You know, I'm I'm relaxed and I'm achieving wonderful business outcomes more than I could have expected. Um, that for me is life. We've really, we're achieving. Absolutely. Now that you've rounded that off so well, Ross because, yeah, it's, you know, redefining what leadership means and you're helping individuals to work that out for themselves within themselves, in their roles.
00:46:40:08 - 00:46:58:23
Unknown
It's so fantastic. Your work is incredible. Thank you. I think yours is. Isn't that interesting? Like, it's probably you're probably feeling a bit of like when I hear you talk about what you're doing. I'm like, Oh, that's so great. I'd love to actually be able to connect into more of that and be able to use some of that in what I'm doing.
00:46:58:23 - 00:47:16:17
Unknown
And of course, I'm not qualified or skilled for that and I suspect you might be feeling some of the same. Oh, that sounds good. I'd love to be bringing that into what I'm doing. Yes. No. Well, I can already immediately say, you know, because my one of my other superpowers is like that entrepreneur mind where it's like, oh, actually this work complements what I'm doing.
00:47:16:17 - 00:47:40:24
Unknown
So me, it's start some live podcasts with my group coaching and bringing on special guests in the pillars of Health that align with the topics that you might specialize in for. I'd love you to, you know, maybe do some masterclasses and things like that. Love to. I'd love to just slightly so and people can ask questions and get to connect with you one on one and yeah, that would be great.
00:47:40:24 - 00:47:56:24
Unknown
That'd be awesome. I'm kind of at a stage in my life, as you know. I don't know if you're if this is visual for people or if it's just an auditory podcast, but anyone that's looking at me can see the gray hair and can see I'm at a stage in my life. So for me, a lot of what I'm doing is about giving back.
00:47:57:01 - 00:48:21:15
Unknown
Um, and I'm very motivated to give back. Like I'm looking for ways to as I look back at my career, I think I've missed opportunities. We all do. Yeah, but I could have done more, I think, because I think what I'm talking about matters. This idea of getting to the getting to the identity matters. If we don't do that.
00:48:21:17 - 00:48:53:14
Unknown
And I look at leadership programs, people are sending people on leadership development workshops. The statistics on the return on investment are dreadful. You know, they get something like a 10% return on investment, so they spend 100 bucks and they get $10. Um, not on top of the 100, they lose the 90. Um, and y I think a big part of the why I there's lots of reasons why, but a big part of the why is because they're all just trying to teach skills, skills, skills skills, which is at the behavior level.
00:48:53:16 - 00:49:16:23
Unknown
And that model that I've talked about, I've put it into an iceberg to convey this idea of going deeper behaviors up at the visible level. And we need to go deeper to the beliefs, the identity and the purpose. And that's, that's what makes a big difference. Um, I absolutely agree as a Kenny's eulogist on going deeper and deeper to create the actual change.
00:49:17:00 - 00:49:36:10
Unknown
I would love to know more about that. I agree. Yeah. So you've got like a new program that you're working on called the Ladies Identity Guide. Tell us about that. Well, thank you. I'm glad you picked up on I was hinting towards that. Well done. So, yeah, the the Leaders Identity Guide is basically trying to get into the market.
00:49:36:15 - 00:50:00:21
Unknown
Everything I'm talking about about this and it's one thing, one one of my great superpowers, which is very often very hard to talk about, is practicality. And throughout my entire career, I've been drawn to very practical, uh, industries. So I spent a lot of time on mine sites, on building sites, you know, the prison officers. These are practical down to earth.
00:50:00:23 - 00:50:26:21
Unknown
Very. Just don't give me the fluff. Just give me the, you know, the, the, the, you know, blood and guts know list. Yeah. The real deal. Um, yeah. Thank you. That's a nice, easy way to put it, but fair dinkum. Yeah. Um, so, um, and so this idea of okay, it's a nice idea working at the identity level, but how do we practically do it?
00:50:26:23 - 00:50:45:18
Unknown
And I've had a lot of colleagues I've worked with and we've all sort of played with this and explored with this. But I think what I've come up with in the Leaders Identity Guide is a really good, practical way to think about your purpose and your identity as a leader in your current role, because it needs leadership is a contextual activity.
00:50:45:20 - 00:51:07:24
Unknown
So what you are doing today, it's almost like if you ever get into investing investment, the gurus will tell you that somebody's past investment, um, performance is not an indicator of their future investment performance. It's like, well, how does that help? You know, like, how do I choose which fund to put put money into if that's not a good indicator?
00:51:08:04 - 00:51:28:16
Unknown
But it's kind of like that with leadership, somebody past leadership performance is not a good indicator of their future leadership performance because the next roles different, the next role will involve a whole lot more people leadership, the next role will be more divorced from the technical side of the work. There's a point in their life where their technical expertise really is not going to help them much.
00:51:28:18 - 00:51:48:21
Unknown
Yeah, and will they deal with that transformation? Will they deal with that change? That's and so what they've done historically doesn't necessarily mean they will achieve in the future. So leadership is, contextual and so within a context, how do we identify up our purpose, how do we identify our identity? And that's what the Leaders Identity guide is all about.
00:51:48:21 - 00:52:13:11
Unknown
I'm putting free YouTube videos out there, and the intent is that it guides people to the deeper program, which is at my website, uh, which is Team Focus plus dot com. Yeah, but if people can't remember that and they remember my name, they'll also they, they'll also find answers at Ross dot com. And so all of that in the show notes Awesome Thank you.
00:52:13:13 - 00:52:34:22
Unknown
You're amazing you're incredible I to be thrilled to have you back again and thank you so much for your time this morning. I'm sure everyone's going to get so much out of today's podcast. Well, all those feelings of mutual your stories to me, like, I just my mind boggles at it. So I would love to come back. I'd love to keep chatting.
00:52:34:24 - 00:52:56:00
Unknown
Yeah. Yes. Thank you so much. Um, I think my best to my book as well. Sorry I haven't done that yet. I deliciously feel like I'm still getting back to January this year. I'm finally getting back on board. We've got a lot going on. Yeah, just got married. And to say things ahead that I reckon is one of the biggest stressful events in life.
00:52:56:04 - 00:53:19:20
Unknown
Marriage? Well, you know what? We got engaged and we got married within three months because we found our dream venue and they had a cancellation. Oh, wow. I just got out a spreadsheet and every day just knocked off tasks and my hubby helped me as well. It wasn't stressful. The only O and the only, mind you, we had reasonable expectations and we we don't need much to be happy.
00:53:19:20 - 00:53:38:04
Unknown
And and we were just so grateful just to have everybody together. It was only the night before I couldn't sleep. So I really am staring at the white walls going, What's going on? This is my wedding day. And I. I think it was just all the energy of everybody arriving. We had it down at the beach at a location and but now it wasn't stressful.
00:53:38:04 - 00:53:57:22
Unknown
It was fine. And that. Yeah, I want to do it all over again. It just goes too quickly. Yeah, that's true. And it sounds like you're similar. When I got married, it sounds similar. I just decided whatever the world expects from this, I'm not interested in that. I want what I want. And it sounds like that's what you did.
00:53:57:22 - 00:54:17:17
Unknown
You focused on what you wanted. Your dream venue came up, so you went for it. Yeah. Um, and I think I've encouraged people do that more. Just get rid of all the other expectations. Just make it what you want. And it should be a joyous occasion. That's right. Should be one of the most joyous occasions of your life.
00:54:17:19 - 00:54:41:08
Unknown
Yeah. Committing to another person, you know, like, it's a it's a fantastic thing to do. It's a beauty. Yeah. Yes. As we were getting our professional photos done because my mom and dad passed away recently, I said to them, please visit, make it really obvious. And as we were getting our professional photos on this cliff over the ocean, these seagulls came and hovered eye level to get in the photo.
00:54:41:10 - 00:55:06:11
Unknown
Really? Wow. Wow. That is. Yeah, that is amazing. Yeah. Oh, that's great. Thank you so much. You're welcome. And you know, your wisdom to today, it's incredible. I'm going to really dive into your book, and I'll have so many questions. Yeah, I think I need to see you. As for coaching as well, like, I don't know if you take your clients, but I just love your work.
00:55:06:11 - 00:55:24:19
Unknown
I really do. You're very, very welcome. And I've had a lot of the same thoughts that there's a connection and there's an opportunity and there's a synergy between our two different work that we do and you modalities and all that. You've got the YouTube channel. I can start learning from there as well, and that's exactly what I'll do.
00:55:24:24 - 00:55:45:01
Unknown
So congratulations on what you're doing and and what you're about to do as well. In this next phase, I'll support it in any way I can. Awesome. Thank you very much. Beautiful. Thank you. Everybody talk soon. Definitely with flexible mindset, we can adapt and transform our story and reimagine what can be possible. So don't forget to bend like bamboo.
00:55:45:03 - 00:56:10:00
Unknown
See you guys next time. Thanks for listening to the Bend like Bamboo podcast. If this conversation resonated, please share it with someone who needs to hear it. And if you're ready to go deeper, whether you're managing chronic symptoms, leading through burnout or seeking guidance and community, I'd love to welcome you into the Bend like Bamboo Family. Don't forget to subscribe.
00:56:10:06 - 00:56:35:04
Unknown
And I'm here to support you wherever you are right now. Book a clarity chat with me, and let's just talk about what's happening in your body, your work and your life. All the links to join our community and also how to get in touch with our guests in the show notes. Remember, with a flexible mindset, we can adapt, transform our story, and reimagine what's possible.
00:56:35:06 - 00:56:36:14
Unknown
I'll see you next time.