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Every day you have a choice. You can wake up and choose to give in to mediocrity and complacency, you can choose bad habits and poor choices, and you can do the bare minimum to get by and fly under the radar. Or you can choose to make today the day that sets you apart from the crowd, you can choose to start doing the right things, the things that will set you up for success. You can choose to create a life that is worth living, worth waking up to, and worth sharing with the world around you. Today You can choose to start with a win.
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Speaker 2
The industry did a really horrific job of leading itself through this.
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Speaker 2
shine your face in public and leave some confidence with everybody and tell them where they're going
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Speaker 1
what are you good at and what are you not good at?
00:00:13:01 - 00:00:17:03
Speaker 2
I argue all the time that it's actually one of the least important positions in the company.
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Speaker 1
James, Give us the two minute fly over what's going on in real estate space and how are we dealing with this change?
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Unknown
Welcome to start with a win where we unpack franchising, leadership and business growth. Let's go.
00:00:30:02 - 00:00:35:15
Speaker 1
And coming to you from start with a wind headquarters at Area 15 Ventures. It's Adam Contos with Start with a Win.
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Speaker 1
Have you ever wondered what it's like to lead a real estate revolution? Well, today I'll start with a win. We're joined by James Wiggins, the CEO of Next Home. He's a true trailblazer in the real estate franchise business. James has not only inherited a rich family legacy in the industry, I think he's like third generation, but he's also co-founded companies that earned industry accolades, including the Inman Innovator Award.
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Speaker 1
Get ready to be inspired by James insights into leadership, real estate, and the journey of building three thriving companies. James, welcome to start with a win
00:01:09:11 - 00:01:10:20
Speaker 2
You, too. Thanks for having me.
00:01:11:02 - 00:01:40:11
Speaker 1
Hey, so for the listeners, James and I have known each other for quite some time in multiple capacities that fit right into you audience, and that is leadership. James is a CEO of a large real estate company that and has run many different companies, as I mentioned in the intro, franchising. I actually ran into James originally at the International Franchise Association at an event and then also real estate.
00:01:40:11 - 00:01:59:01
Speaker 1
So you're obviously running a real estate company and he and I have both and he still is CEO of a real estate company. I was the CEO of RE. So, you know, we talk a fair amount and are good friends. So, James, why don't you give the audience a little bit of a flyover of your background and how did you get to where you're at?
00:01:59:01 - 00:02:01:05
Speaker 1
I know you're what, third generation real estate.
00:02:01:05 - 00:02:20:16
Speaker 2
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I can't get out. I've been trying for a long time to get out of the industry. again, thanks for having me on. It's good to see you. And I'll never forget that. That meeting at IFA where I got to meet you and Dave for the first time. Yeah, So I've been in the business for.
00:02:20:18 - 00:02:48:03
Speaker 2
Well, I'm 43, so 43 years. My grandfather started his company in 1967. Wow. He had a independent on the central coast of California back in the you know, back in the sixties and seventies. He actually for for those of you been in the industry long enough, he grew it to three locations in like 123 agents in the seventies which is a massive company time frame and then he affiliated with ERA.
00:02:48:05 - 00:03:12:06
Speaker 2
It was an ERA franchise. And this tells you how old I am and how long I've been in the business. When it stood for Electronic Realty Associate and the fax machine, which is really and people that may not even know that that's what the brand meant. Yeah. And was in the franchise for a long time. So the irony of it is we'll talk about franchising today, but my family had been in real estate and in franchising, at least as a franchisee for a long time.
00:03:12:08 - 00:03:34:11
Speaker 2
His wife was a real estate agent. My mother was a real estate agent. My father was a real estate broker. I just cannot get out. So I've been I've been in this a long time. I remember the days of the MLS book. I remember the days when the MLS was a was a dial up service through a program called Borris Man, I am dating myself.
00:03:34:12 - 00:03:35:09
Speaker 2
I feel old right now.
00:03:35:09 - 00:03:37:05
Speaker 1
And a dot matrix printer.
00:03:37:06 - 00:03:51:05
Speaker 2
Yep. And dot matrix printer. And I can go as far back. Remember my parents, we get the multiple the book every month with all the new listings that they would know it was in town. And so I've seen I've seen this business grow up.
00:03:51:07 - 00:04:10:07
Speaker 1
It's funny you say that because I actually my my friend's mom was a real estate agent in like the eighties. And I remember we would have that book and we'd have to go through and on three by five note cards, we'd highlight the, the listings she was going to show and yeah, and then write them down on notecards and to put them in order so she could show them in that order.
00:04:10:07 - 00:04:11:16
Speaker 1
And it was.
00:04:11:16 - 00:04:33:07
Speaker 2
I remember, by the way, I'm going to go I've never actually said this phrase. I realize I remember dropping fliers off in in basically the equivalent of door knocking for my mother, probably violating every child labor law in the state of California. But when I was really young, I'd walk the neighborhood and put little things on the doors and new listing in the neighborhood.
00:04:33:07 - 00:04:37:07
Speaker 2
And I mean, that's just what you did. Like you you hustled, you know.
00:04:37:09 - 00:04:56:14
Speaker 1
That's it. I mean, face to face sales and dropping little, you know, indications that you're working the space or something like that is so cool. So, I mean, obviously a lot of evolution in, you know, in the real estate space. Why did you get into franchising? I mean, you, you know, you started next Home and became a franchise company.
00:04:56:16 - 00:05:00:15
Speaker 1
Yeah. You know, why? Why franchising? Why do you so what do you see in the power of that?
00:05:00:20 - 00:05:29:02
Speaker 2
It's a funny it's a funny story because I work from my parents company. They're their real estate brokerage. Then I got into Proptech called Proptech now, but I started a software company when I was 19, sold it when I was 21, started another company when I was 21 called REO with some partners. My current my current partner now that's in next home and then two other two other people I used to work with who were business partners, Brian Boru and Mark Davidson at thousand were my partners in that company.
00:05:29:04 - 00:05:47:15
Speaker 2
We sold that later. I was sitting on the couch not working because I was tired. And then a client of ours named Realty World up in Northern California who we were doing a lot of tech for, the CEO and I were good friends and he called me up. He's like, Hey, you're being lazy. Get off the couch and come like, Come here and do something.
00:05:47:15 - 00:06:03:00
Speaker 2
And I had just moved to Northern California at that time. And so I went to work for Realty Road, which is a franchise. It was a very successful franchise in Northern California. It had about 420 offices in a very different type of business model. And so I started there as the head of technology, eventually became the vice president.
00:06:03:02 - 00:06:23:21
Speaker 2
And then eventually my current business partner and I bought it in 2014 and then we started next terms. We kind of we were the actually the best analogy is we were kind of tinkering with business models in a franchise brand that nobody really paid much attention to. And so we were playing around with that going. Then this franchise thing, we could really do some new stuff with it.
00:06:23:21 - 00:06:54:18
Speaker 2
It's very traditional, kind of operates the same. You know, obviously, Remax was an innovator in changing some of the franchise models, but we we then started next to them in 2014, launched it in 2015 as a new national brand because real trouble was only in Northern California's long story that we basically were then running two franchise brands. So I got into it by working for one, and I fell in love with it because, you know, this industry is just everyone's very entrepreneurial in this business.
00:06:54:20 - 00:07:21:15
Speaker 2
Everyone wants to, you know, operate their own hours and do their own thing. But I've always found that real estate people are very good. I use the word that Keith always says humanists, they're really good with people. They're good with the relationships. They're really not great operators, like they struggle with it. And so the concept of like, here we're going to help you operate it, and then you go do what you do really well.
00:07:21:15 - 00:07:44:07
Speaker 2
We'll take care of the minutia and shit behind the scenes. And I just I love that concept. And as you know, in franchising the benefit of franchising beyond just the mechanisms of like, you know, how to, how to make the sandwich, it's this idea of your, your being part of something bigger and you can't replicate that if you're small.
00:07:44:11 - 00:08:04:11
Speaker 2
You just can't. You don't have the network, you don't have the referrals, you don't have the idea sharing. You don't get to hear what's happening across the country. You don't get to learn from someone else's mistakes quite as much. So you just you get this benefit and then brand recognition is a real thing. Like it just is. So, you know, you can go to any city in America and you, you know, you're in a new town.
00:08:04:11 - 00:08:24:13
Speaker 2
I always love this analogy and you walk outside your hotel room home and you're in, you're like, just want a cup of coffee? Like, I need my coffee. You see Starbucks and you see Joe's coffee shop. There's a line out of Joe's, but you go to Starbucks anyway. Why? Because you know you're going to get a consistent, overpriced, boring cup of coffee and you're okay with that.
00:08:24:13 - 00:08:48:13
Speaker 2
So, like, but the point is, like, you know what you're going to get. And people love just comfort. They want it. They just they want consistency. And so that's the beauty of it, man. Like it it just you can help people operate part of their business that they're not good at. And you get this national network and you just get these things that don't come from not being part of something bigger.
00:08:48:17 - 00:09:03:13
Speaker 1
It's a it's a great point because it's something that everybody that's listening to this should think about is what are you good at and what are you not good at? And James is right. You're most of the people that listen to this are entrepreneurs or business leaders or something like that. You're good at the people part, but you suck at the system.
00:09:03:15 - 00:09:06:00
Speaker 1
So find a good system, right?
00:09:06:02 - 00:09:34:05
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. I think it's that common is incredibly important what you're getting at. I think the most successful leaders are very good at identifying what they are good at, and they're even better at identifying what they're not. And then you have to get comfortable knowing you suck at something and then finding really good talent to fill that and then get the hell out of the way.
00:09:34:07 - 00:10:03:23
Speaker 2
Like that's the that is like in every aspect of running your own business. Know your strengths, know your weaknesses, keep yourself in check, keep your ego in check and let talented people who are better at that than you drive and be and let them drive. And I think that's just in most sales industries. Their ego gets in the way and they don't make the right choices and they end up failing because they're just not there.
00:10:04:00 - 00:10:06:13
Speaker 2
They're trying to do shit. They're not good at, you know? Yeah.
00:10:06:13 - 00:10:16:01
Speaker 1
So everybody raise your hand and repeat after me. I am not good at everything. I mean, for crying out loud, Listen to what James is saying here.
00:10:16:03 - 00:10:53:21
Speaker 2
If you have to. You got to that. The biggest the biggest thing I've I've found and it's like even in in our in our organization, it's easy. It's easy to wear. It's easy to wear the title of CEO and take credit for everything. It's easy because your title just makes everybody assume it's you. The hard part is being really good at making sure that the team, the team that you work with are are being recognized for the work that they do because the CEO job is just a cog in the wheel and it's honestly not even the most important.
00:10:53:21 - 00:11:30:21
Speaker 2
I argue all the time that it's actually one of the least important positions in the company. The job of a CEO is to empower their people, give them what they need, help them grow, learn from their mistakes, not be in a place of fear and and drive the company's forward as a team. And I meet a lot of entrepreneurs who just have way too much pride and and get in the way of that and and really finding talent that's smarter than you is like the best They're the best people.
00:11:30:21 - 00:11:48:13
Speaker 2
The best CEOs are the ones that that are constantly bringing really intelligent people and surrounding themselves and learning every day. And and then and then focusing on their on their strengths. And you'll find your thrive. You just will. Franchising does that, too.
00:11:48:13 - 00:12:07:16
Speaker 1
I want to unpack something you just said here. I mean, so two key points that blend together. One, operating from a position of fear. So many people that claim to be leaders and you know, they have the title of a leader, but they don't have the daily operations of a leader. Leading is something you do. It's not someone you are folks.
00:12:07:16 - 00:12:37:15
Speaker 1
Right. So and a lot of that has to do with your your vulnerability, your humility, your transparency, the clarity you provide, the organization, things like that. But ultimately, that only works when you don't have any ego that's blocking that whole thing. And really what you want to see if somebody has an ego and they're operating from a position of fear, throw some change into their industry and and see how they operate around that, because a lot of times they just start lashing out, you know, operating from fear.
00:12:37:15 - 00:12:58:10
Speaker 1
You get fight, flight or freeze or those three or you get these people that are no longer leaders, that are haters and are hiding from everything, hoping that the dark clouds blow over. You know, we saw that quite a bit during COVID with a lot of so-called CEOs who just kind of disappeared and wouldn't yet, you know, wouldn't show up for their people and say, look, here's what we're going through.
00:12:58:12 - 00:13:03:15
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's bad, but we're going to we're going to get there together because we're going to fight together.
00:13:03:17 - 00:13:04:12
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:13:04:14 - 00:13:31:09
Speaker 1
So tell me about change in business from a leaders perspective. What have you dealt with at Next Home or I mean, hey, I got one. The real estate industry is going through a shit ton of change right now. Okay? With with these lawsuits, these commission lawsuits. And, you know, you're you're being tapped as an expert in in a lot of different aspects of this on webinars and speaking at events and things like that.
00:13:31:11 - 00:13:53:11
Speaker 1
Give us briefly a flyover real quick for I mean, if somebody's been hiding under a rock and they haven't heard about this, maybe they they want to it affects everybody 100% of society that buys or sells a house at some point or is in a real estate space. This isn't going to impact you. James, Give us the two minute fly over what's going on in real estate space and how are we dealing with this change?
00:13:53:13 - 00:14:31:04
Speaker 2
Yeah, so there's a bunch of class action lawsuits that have been filed. I won't get into too many specifics, but essentially a bunch of lawyers got a bunch of sellers together to convince them that they were overpaying for their services. And the short version is there's 20 of them now. One of them went to court in or went to trial in October and the industry lost the just the basically the the crux of this is that the sellers are overpaying by having to pay the buyer's agent's compensation.
00:14:31:04 - 00:14:57:01
Speaker 2
I'm really summarizing here, but that's the gist of it. Right. The the the the the lawyers want to see a world where the buyer's agent is paid by the buyer in the seller's agent is paid by the seller. There's a whole bunch of reasons why that is very difficult to make happen. But the the answer is the industry has been fractured because of the results of these cases.
00:14:57:03 - 00:15:15:09
Speaker 2
A $1.78 billion verdict plus treble damages. So 5.3 billion. Ouch. Which is massive. The numbers are stupid because the industry doesn't have this kind of money like that. You can the numbers don't make any sense. And I tell you, every since these numbers came out, everyone's talking about it. I'm like, ignore the numbers. No one has that kind of cash.
00:15:15:15 - 00:15:42:07
Speaker 2
And lawyers don't want to bankrupt every company, period. So what's what to answer? Your second part of the question is what has been sad to see, in my opinion and these are the opinions of James, not, you know, everyone else. The industry did a really horrific job of leading itself through this. Everyone went to the corner and I didn't want to talk about it.
00:15:42:09 - 00:16:01:13
Speaker 2
They're worried that they're going to be a target. They were worried that they would say something that would hurt themselves. And in you know, in a in a defense case, the National Association of Realtors had an absolutely horrific approach to this. And I've been very critical of them. I to be clear, I'm a supporter of NPR. I want them to fix their problems.
00:16:01:15 - 00:16:23:09
Speaker 2
We need them. But I'm also going to say that their PR strategy was horrific. And what happened was this massive void in the conversation and in what, for whatever reason, I've learned over the years that there's two types of mindset with things. There's scarcity mindset and abundance in mindset. And this is like, I just use this all the time.
00:16:23:11 - 00:16:42:18
Speaker 2
I'm a believer that when you have abundance in mindset, it just all works itself out like you put out into the world and you'll you'll get equal back in return. So for two years I've been listening to our good friend Rob Horn, as well as a lot of other people on the suits going, This is a real problem.
00:16:42:18 - 00:16:50:04
Speaker 2
And everyone's like, God, you're a doomsday or and I'm like, No, no, no. Like I've been I've been learning about this stuff. These are real issues, you know.
00:16:50:05 - 00:16:52:06
Speaker 1
Not a big deal. You're not going to win.
00:16:52:06 - 00:17:00:11
Speaker 2
It's going to be great. I'm like, I don't know, because like there's per se versus rule. A reason like these are a lot of problems. And sure enough, we ended up losing punch.
00:17:00:11 - 00:17:00:19
Speaker 1
In the West.
00:17:00:23 - 00:17:28:12
Speaker 2
But yeah, and this is I think there's a comment here for everyone to hear. My lawyers, like everybody else's lawyers said, don't talk about it. Don't say anything. Don't go public with it. Keep your mouth shut. Let it you know, it's going to work itself out. And candidly, I don't like listening to lawyers. I genuinely find that lawyers are self-serving.
00:17:28:14 - 00:17:49:11
Speaker 2
And I love my lawyer. To be clear, he's a very good friend, like we're very tight, but his job is to advise me. It's my job to determine what I want to take out of that advice. And there's a problem here in our industry. Everyone is listening to their lawyers way too much and so what happened is there's this massive void.
00:17:49:11 - 00:18:14:09
Speaker 2
All these everybody has no idea what's going on. Agents are not aware of it or the brokers are. They're like, they don't know what to do. And here we are today. Every single thing, literally every single thing that Rob and Ed and all of these other people I'm talking to and we've all been publicly saying would happen has happened in frickin order.
00:18:14:09 - 00:18:32:05
Speaker 2
Right. And so because we've been vocal about it and talking about it and trying to help people through it and understand not to be scared and like this is the next step and this is where it's going to go. And and we've, you know, somehow a lot of us have become authorities on it, which we really shouldn't be, but we are.
00:18:32:07 - 00:18:54:15
Speaker 2
But the learning lesson, I think, in all of this is if you if you operate from a place of fear, you're never going to end up in the right spot. I genuinely believe that if you are always playing defense, you're just you're going to be you're just never going to put your company in the right spot. So we've just been extraordinarily vocal about it.
00:18:54:15 - 00:19:15:15
Speaker 2
And I brought all of our franchisees out to Salt Lake City. We do a retreat every at the end of every year. And we last year before the trial for the first one, went to trial, we said, here's what's going to happen. We brought a lawyer in the room who was knowledgeable about all this stuff, laid it all out, said it's going to sound scary and it's going to work itself out because everything is going to end in settlement.
00:19:15:15 - 00:19:18:17
Speaker 2
Which, by the way, Adam, how is everything ending so far.
00:19:18:17 - 00:19:19:23
Speaker 1
And settlement.
00:19:20:00 - 00:19:49:04
Speaker 2
Right? So but but what but what the key point I'll say is this my franchisees, while you risk scaring people like you have to walk a boundary because this stuff is complicated. Almost all of them have been appreciative of the fact that they're like, I would rather know and like deal with the scared ness of it versus I have no idea what I'm supposed to do or how I'm supposed to think.
00:19:49:04 - 00:19:54:12
Speaker 2
And our industry has done it. Shitty job of of leading during this time.
00:19:54:14 - 00:20:14:06
Speaker 1
So it seems that in leaders, whether or not you're in the real estate space, you're going to have some sort of a, you know, a bad storm that rolls through. I mean, we all went through it in COVID. And again, I mean, it's if you weren't in front of your customers during COVID, they lost faith and confidence in you, for sure.
00:20:14:08 - 00:20:34:14
Speaker 1
And that's what's happening in the real estate space in a lot of different aspects is there's so much confusion and people are dodging the key questions and nobody's really admitting, okay, yeah, you know, all right. Whether or not we think we did something wrong, the jury said this, We lost. Yeah, I mean, it's there's a big one in the L column.
00:20:34:17 - 00:20:55:15
Speaker 1
Okay, folks. Yeah. I mean, it's not even a tie, for crying out loud. Nobody likes a tie to begin with. It's an L, and you got to own your L's as a leader. And if you say, okay, yeah, we lost. Here's how we're going to deal with it. Here's our path forward. We have some clarity. Let's all join arms and work together to make this work that people are like, okay.
00:20:55:17 - 00:20:58:01
Speaker 1
And it's gosh, there's.
00:20:58:01 - 00:21:16:08
Speaker 2
There's always a path forward in. Sometimes the path is maybe even better than the previous path you were on. You have to look up and look down the road a little bit and go, All right, well, where does how do all these pieces play out? Right? And I don't personally, I'm a minority in this world still. I think I'll end up being, you know, part of the majority.
00:21:16:08 - 00:21:21:00
Speaker 2
But it's I actually think a lot of the changes that are going to come will be better.
00:21:21:02 - 00:21:41:20
Speaker 1
Do, do you think I mean, as far as like evolution versus revolution, But I mean, ultimately better is better. I mean, we have to have a path forward. And yeah, I mean, the real estate industry is not going to come to a screeching halt because of lawsuits. It's going to have to adapt. So what adaptation do you think people need to prepare for?
00:21:42:00 - 00:22:01:22
Speaker 2
Well, I mean, look, so what's that? There's a bunch of things that everybody complains about in real estate. We have too many agents. Okay, well, guess what? There's going to be less. So there's the first part we've been complaining about for as long as I've been alive. That's about to happen. People that aren't good at their job and in articulating their value, sorry, you won't be here in the next 24 months.
00:22:02:00 - 00:22:20:06
Speaker 2
So problem solved there. You know, this this idea of a lot of the things we have in the industry that I just don't agree with and don't make any logical sense. Dual agency, not a good idea. Fastest way to get sued represent both sides of the deal. By the way, there's a reason why lawyers can't represent both parties like it.
00:22:20:07 - 00:22:58:23
Speaker 2
There's just stuff that we do that doesn't make any sense, which are things that are going to come to a head, right? I don't necessarily disagree with the fact that the way our current structure is going to really irritate some people, but the way our current structure is, if you if you are collecting compensation from the seller in advance of knowing the buyer and offering an amount to an agent that just got licensed yesterday and has a buyer and you're going to pay that agent the same amount of money to represent that buyer as an agent has been in the business for 30 years.
00:22:59:01 - 00:23:30:08
Speaker 2
There's an issue there. Like there should be candidly, like newer agents should probably shouldn't be charging as much as a as a as a top producer. And so I think that there needs to be mechanisms for the seller to offer compensation. And there's a lot of reasons why I believe that the most important one is the reason why this this structure is this way, which the plaintiffs got so horribly wrong, is because the fastest way to end up in a lawsuit for the seller have an unrepresented buyer watch what happens.
00:23:30:10 - 00:23:53:00
Speaker 2
Like in the most sophisticated, complicated transaction, they're going to do maybe three times in their life with all of their life savings. Let's get them into a spot where they have to choose between representation or going it alone. that's a brilliant idea. So part of the reason why the rule is the way it is, is to make sure that there is somebody representing on the other side.
00:23:53:05 - 00:24:22:02
Speaker 2
Now, where do I think it goes and why? I think it's an interesting change. As long as there is a mechanism, Let's say that the rule in the MLS goes away, which I think will happen. So there's no offer of compensation, the MLS, but there's a seller concession field instead so the seller can offer whatever they want, not coming through the agent, it's the seller having the conversation with their agent, deciding what they want to do, and if there's a mechanism for the buyer to finance the compensation for representation.
00:24:22:04 - 00:24:48:16
Speaker 2
Now we have a mechanism to allow good agents to charge what they're worth, agents that are newer to potentially charge whatever they're worth. The buyer and the agent negotiate on that value. It's our job to articulate that value. It's our job to convince the buyer to pay us, and then it becomes a negotiation. And it could be something like the buyer's agent or the buyer's going to finance making up a number here, but one and a half percent.
00:24:48:18 - 00:25:10:02
Speaker 2
And the seller offers a percent concession to help with the close the deal. It's a negotiation that's this outcome. I think long term will end up removing a lot of agents that aren't good at their job. Good riddance, right? No offense, but like, find another profession we want we need to get more professional and the good agents are going to get better.
00:25:10:04 - 00:25:33:16
Speaker 2
Like and as long as the buyer has the ability to choose representation, which is the most important part of this conversation, then I'm I'm not opposed to it. I'm just not. I think it, it, it, it is an evolution. To answer your question next with a little bit of revolution, but it is the industry evolving in a way where, candidly, we're not going to have any more of these investigations.
00:25:33:18 - 00:25:51:19
Speaker 2
That's the interesting part is where this is going is going to end up being in a spot where the DOJ really doesn't intervene much anymore because it's you have separation like, right. I represent the buyer, I represent the seller. It's very clear who does what. They'll be disclosures upfront. It's clearly explaining what, what, what can and can't be done.
00:25:51:19 - 00:25:53:08
Speaker 2
And that's not bad.
00:25:53:13 - 00:26:13:12
Speaker 1
Okay. So James, I have a question then. So, you know, we've talked about leadership, we've talked about change. We've talked about this looming probability, let's call it in the real estate space. I yeah, I don't find this to be, you know, 20 years in real estate space here, running one of the largest real estate companies in the world.
00:26:13:14 - 00:26:34:04
Speaker 1
I mean, for crying out loud, I don't see a problem with, you know, a fair rendering of the the transaction that way. And I think the professionals are actually going to like it because it gives them a clear path forward to talk to their customers about and say, yeah, yeah. I mean, simply put, here's how the transaction is going to work.
00:26:34:06 - 00:26:43:01
Speaker 1
It's actually not that different from a commercial transaction which has gone on for quite some time. Yeah, So I mean the reality Adam.
00:26:43:01 - 00:27:00:23
Speaker 2
Adam, another comment to think about is this I'm not when I sit down with a buyer now and I'm really optimistic about this just because a bunch of stuff I'm working on, but if I sit down with a buyer now, the way the agent does it, which I think is stupid, they don't sit down and have a buyer console, they don't sit down and do a buyer presentation.
00:27:00:23 - 00:27:24:21
Speaker 2
They don't they don't explaining this stuff because they're getting paid by the seller's agent. Like there's the compensations already known that it's there right in this world. And this is my, my comment to this in this new world, as long as those mechanisms are in place I'm talking about, I get to sit down with the buyer and clearly articulate my value and dictate the compensation at whatever rate I want to charge instead of having to have a conversation.
00:27:24:21 - 00:27:47:08
Speaker 2
Well, the agent's only offering this, and so you need to make up the difference, which sounds like greedy in a way. So versus like, well, I just charge X, this is for my services. Here's 180 things that I do. This is the amount of time it takes to me. It just I would rather be in control of that conversation from the start, all the way to the finish versus like having to mix and match between what somebody else is doing.
00:27:47:08 - 00:27:52:17
Speaker 2
I mean, to put it bluntly, I don't want my compensation dictated by how good a seller's agent is at their job.
00:27:52:22 - 00:28:19:17
Speaker 1
Right. I totally agree. So I have a question for you that, you know, this is an industry where people can be quick to blow their stack, you know, just fly off the handle. Believe it or not, we might have a few people that have a very short fuze, and it's always lit in the real estate space. And how do we as leaders convince them one change is going to happen?
00:28:19:17 - 00:28:43:19
Speaker 1
Because, I mean, you know, the position of a leader to rewind this whole thing is to provide clarity and a path forward and trust that you need. You need to just take and take that next step. You need to stop resisting what is I mean, the more people blow up on it, I see some crazy comments on some of these webinars and shit like that.
00:28:44:00 - 00:28:45:13
Speaker 1
You know, you've been on them and.
00:28:45:13 - 00:28:47:18
Speaker 2
Just exhibit A in the lawsuits, by the way.
00:28:47:20 - 00:29:15:19
Speaker 1
Yeah. my gosh. Take your bleeping bleep and bleep in. Yeah, yeah. It's it's crazy stuff. But how do we how do we turn these professionals into leaders in order to stand tall in the industry? And what should they be doing with our customers right now? I mean, I've seen a few standing tall years, you being one. A few others in the industry is also also standing tall and saying, folks, prepare for this work on that, demonstrate your value, move forward.
00:29:15:19 - 00:29:18:05
Speaker 1
I mean, it sounds like a leadership class here.
00:29:18:07 - 00:29:41:17
Speaker 2
Yeah. I don't I'm not convinced that everybody can change. That sounds really pessimistic, but, like, I just I'm not realistic. I don't know, realistic, but I'm not convinced that everybody can change. And candidly, my job isn't I'm not here to change people. I'm here to influence them and think differently. They're going to have to walk their own path.
00:29:41:19 - 00:30:08:09
Speaker 2
But I will simply state that in absence of reasonable voices in the room, the loud ones will fill the air. And this is like literally the conversation I've had with any our leadership. Mike, you can't not respond. I know you like feel like you're above the comments, but the problem is, is if you don't respond or say something, then people are only going to hear that loud ranting noise in the room.
00:30:08:11 - 00:30:30:08
Speaker 2
I think it's important that at least how we've approached it myself and many others, many on my team as well it Keith Robinson's done a great job of this is you just have to go out and just share your message and resonate with people and influence the ones that you can. And and honestly, a lot of these know a lot of people talking.
00:30:30:10 - 00:30:47:12
Speaker 2
Their opinions aren't going to matter because there is a clear path here. And like, I'll make the statement, I know fairly clearly where this is going to end up because I'm involved in a lot of it, and they're either going to have to learn to do adapt to this change that's coming and lead their people with this change instead of fearing it.
00:30:47:12 - 00:31:07:05
Speaker 2
Look at it, embrace it and go, okay, this is the reality of where we are. Or candidly, if they don't, their company won't be here because they're not going to lead their people in a fashion where they're helping them move in that direction. And those people will leave your organization and they will go somewhere else. They will go to an organization where they're like this leadership.
00:31:07:06 - 00:31:08:08
Speaker 2
This is where I want to.
00:31:08:08 - 00:31:23:17
Speaker 1
This is where in real estate I want to hang my license because I feel like this is the vision of the future. And again, the longer the longer that there is a void in that conversation, you're allowing somebody else to fill it with theirs.
00:31:23:19 - 00:31:38:03
Speaker 2
So let me let me summarize real quick here. This is so I make sure I have this right. First of all, obviously shit happens. I mean, change happens. Call it what it is. Everybody, you know, doesn't like it. Somebody moved your cheese. Whatever you want.
00:31:38:03 - 00:31:42:07
Speaker 1
To. Every day Congress passes a bill, someone doesn't like to do anything about it.
00:31:42:08 - 00:32:11:11
Speaker 2
So, yeah, I mean, it's it's and it's not going. A good friend of mine once said they can't eat you. So just. Yeah. So, I mean. Yeah, exactly. Maybe we get there. I don't know, but. And embrace the fact that change happens and. Yeah, adapt to that change and lead through it. People with a clear direction forward. And if you want to stay in existence as a business leader and as a business itself.
00:32:11:13 - 00:32:19:09
Speaker 2
So, you know, every industry goes through this. Everybody goes through this. It just happens to be the real estate industry's turn.
00:32:19:11 - 00:32:44:10
Speaker 1
Complacency will kill you. Yeah, I, I literally like it's what's one of the things that I talk to myself about on a daily basis. And it's funny because, like, I'll I'll bring another analogy as in, you know, this obviously you've run a much larger company than mine, but it's as you grow in your career and you make more money, it's easier to become complacent.
00:32:44:12 - 00:33:18:19
Speaker 1
You have to intentionally keep the mindset of complacency will kill like it will genuinely never get comfortable. I genuinely believe it's a CEO's job to never be comfortable. I wish there was a world where that existed. Maybe retirement, I don't know. Not there yet, but it in a way you have to always be in this uncomfortable spot so that you're always looking down the road and seeing where things are going to come or what might hit you next or where what what's happening.
00:33:18:20 - 00:33:41:16
Speaker 1
Like as an example. I'll bet you most of the franchisors and you you're very involved in if they don't attend if stuff like I haven't seen most of them there and yet there's you and I both know the joint employer employee bill that's trying to go through and all this stuff is a huge problem. Yeah and you're I talk to people who are like, what?
00:33:41:18 - 00:34:04:14
Speaker 2
This is like, my God, literally as big a threat to the to, you know, fast food as the of things like that as these real estate lawsuits. Yeah. I mean, if you want to pay I mean, we saw it the other day, $18 for a Big Mac, for crying out loud. I mean, the McDonald's CEO is taking flak because they are charging 18 bucks for a Big Mac meal.
00:34:04:16 - 00:34:09:03
Speaker 2
Welcome to 2020 for people with the changes that are going on.
00:34:09:05 - 00:34:11:05
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah.
00:34:11:07 - 00:34:12:01
Speaker 2
You're right.
00:34:12:04 - 00:34:28:03
Speaker 1
I mean, it it is. It is absolutely the reason why and maybe this is a great time to state it like people are like, why are you so defensive of the National Association of Realtors? And I'm like, I'm not. If you actually read my posts, I'm I'm critical where I need they need to be where they need to hear what's going on, right?
00:34:28:05 - 00:34:31:11
Speaker 1
But I'm also not naive enough to think that.
00:34:31:11 - 00:34:33:18
Speaker 2
We don't need them.
00:34:33:20 - 00:34:47:13
Speaker 1
Like, if you're not, is Seth one of our one of our guests on my podcast said this. Great. It's like if you're not if you're not in the kitchen, you're on the menu like is or how do you say it? Basically the point was like, if you're not at the table, there it is. You're not at the table, you're on the menu.
00:34:47:13 - 00:35:13:07
Speaker 1
And it was just an interesting comment because it's literally how DC operates. If you're not in the room having conversations, then your industry will be on the menu. And I just like I go, I have nothing against the American Real Estate Association. Whatever they're trying to start, it's fine. I just know that when you fracture what's here, you lose influence, you lose influence.
00:35:13:09 - 00:35:40:05
Speaker 1
Your ability to to to tell senators and congressmen and congresswomen, this is what's going to happen if you pass this bill, we're going to arm 1.5 million people to oust you out of office. I'm saying that politely, but like that's the conversation. And so you influence them in 1099 is a great example. Adam Like what would happen if the real estate industry didn't have 1099 status that we so enjoy?
00:35:40:08 - 00:35:43:16
Speaker 2
It'd be so much smaller.
00:35:43:18 - 00:36:07:12
Speaker 1
Yeah. Like massively different. Yeah. So it just there's, there's so much I get frustrated sometimes because like, you're defending them and their leadership sucks and all the scandals and I'm like, okay, yes, I agree with you. We don't need to burn the house down. Can we, like, remodel it? Can we give it a facelift? Can we, can we can we fix the foundation?
00:36:07:12 - 00:36:17:09
Speaker 1
And then like So it's just very emotional people, just very emotional. Instead of like looking at everything holistically and trying to figure out what to do. So yeah.
00:36:17:12 - 00:36:39:11
Speaker 2
It's I mean, in a nutshell and you look at the National Association of Realtors, incredibly important lobbying organization. You're right, the membership side needs kind of a yeah, tune up and a paint job for sure. Yeah, but, but the lobbying actually is doing great. I mean, the largest lobbying trade group in the in the world and.
00:36:39:11 - 00:36:58:04
Speaker 1
Date local and national man like it's it's it's that part you may not of everybody need to agree with the bills they pass but the reality is they're fairly centered and they do a pretty damn good job of only sponsoring bills that are pro housing consumer and private property rights like.
00:36:58:06 - 00:37:12:06
Speaker 2
Right. I mean, it's the same as, you know, the international franchise Association does a ton of lobbying. And by the way, they're the ones who are trying to keep the price of your Big Mac down. So, you know, by not succumbing to some of the regulations that are.
00:37:12:06 - 00:37:33:21
Speaker 1
Going in, you know, just because you're very involved with that, what's I find this so funny to me, I'm going to make a comparison. It's going to irritate people. So any hours dues are $156. Yeah. What's the if you so tell everybody here what's the EFA dues to be part of EFA like depending upon it varies by the size of your company but it's thousands.
00:37:33:21 - 00:37:38:02
Speaker 2
Yes. Much, much like you know.
00:37:38:02 - 00:37:39:04
Speaker 1
Yeah. Mine was.
00:37:39:06 - 00:37:40:01
Speaker 2
Peter.
00:37:40:04 - 00:38:05:23
Speaker 1
Said mine was like 60 $500 or something this year based upon the size of it or like ten grand or something. Yeah. Take my money right. Like, take my money. Please, God, go do what you do to help influence these idiot politicians from not passing some of the stuff that they're proposing. Like is the safest, cheapest possible advocacy you could think of to protect the industry.
00:38:05:23 - 00:38:35:00
Speaker 2
And you know what's interesting is how bipartisan these groups become. You know, you have to be you have to be because you're not working towards a political party. You're working towards humanity. And what's best for the citizens of the United States, of North America, whatever it might be. So, you know, it's fascinating how people need to separate the, you know, the club of, hey, let's hang out and bitch about stuff and and that truly and.
00:38:35:00 - 00:38:36:07
Speaker 1
Go do something education.
00:38:36:07 - 00:38:59:14
Speaker 2
Of lawmakers so that we're we're building appropriate regulation and advancement in how we're regulating our industries. So you know, we could we could beat this up all day but but I'm with you. And I said the same thing on your podcast when you had me on that, that, you know, we have a good part and we have a part that could use a little touch up for sure, a big touch up for that matter.
00:38:59:14 - 00:39:12:12
Speaker 2
And frankly, some, you know, some marketing advocacy, not just for the legislative aspect but for the community aspects of the people have a better understanding of why they're there and truly the value they deliver.
00:39:12:18 - 00:39:39:17
Speaker 1
So, yeah, it's a NAS in a really weird spot. They their leadership, I, I kind of think it looks like this they're they're asking people in the box like what we need to do and and I'm trying to like I want to just shake him and go don't ask a single board member a question ever again. Right. Like none of them.
00:39:39:23 - 00:39:58:01
Speaker 1
And I mean that that's I know some of the people that are there, but they're the ones carrying the flag. Your problem isn't the ones carrying the flag. It's the other 95%. And I'm not exaggerating of the industry that doesn't like what you're doing. And they're the ones that aren't in the room as the 95%. What they think needs to change.
00:39:58:01 - 00:40:17:16
Speaker 1
It's like new any new ad campaign. And I'm not against trying to to talk to the consumer but you know, I put on Facebook like, what do you think of this? And do you think your customer knows the difference between a realtor and a real estate agent? It was like 186 comments. I think one of them said yes and like 195 said no.
00:40:17:18 - 00:40:18:20
Speaker 2
Correct.
00:40:18:22 - 00:40:20:19
Speaker 1
So why are we spending the money on that?
00:40:21:01 - 00:40:22:08
Speaker 2
Right.
00:40:22:10 - 00:40:49:19
Speaker 1
Come on. Like, let's put it towards something else. Like you don't if that we beat that drum and stop calling it the American dream. Like it's not people don't resonate with that. Maybe 20 years ago. But like young people, if you read the studies, aren't going to want the American dream. They're wanting to travel. They're trying to figure out to get out of their mom's house, like it's like, God, you know, you've got this great thing going, but you've got the wrong group.
00:40:49:19 - 00:40:59:07
Speaker 1
You're listening to take everybody that's in your board room and fire them. Go bring in a bunch of outside people to tell you what to do to fix it, because there's a lot of passionate people who want to help.
00:40:59:09 - 00:41:02:09
Speaker 2
Totally. I you know, I know you and I would both. We should.
00:41:02:09 - 00:41:17:04
Speaker 1
Hire you. they should hire you, Adam. But you should be the next Actually, it's a great idea. You should go be CEO of NPR. I know you don't want the job, but, like, No, I'm serious. I just thought of that. I'm like, You should. Actually. You would be amazing. You'd go in and clean things up.
00:41:17:04 - 00:41:18:14
Speaker 2
James, We're still recording.
00:41:18:18 - 00:41:21:02
Speaker 1
No shit. Sorry.
00:41:21:04 - 00:41:41:02
Speaker 2
Anyhow, hey, let's let's wrap this up because we, you know, we've and we're not bitching about stuff here. What we're doing is we're kind of talking reality of, Hey, leaders, pull your head out of the dark space and shine your face in public and leave some confidence with everybody and tell them where they're going because change is happening.
00:41:41:07 - 00:42:06:02
Speaker 2
It's okay. Change is great. I mean, I love change. I love the chessboard of business and life because it keeps you on your toes and it makes you know, it just it fills me with energy to go out and make decisions. So I know you're that you're the same way. And again, they can't eat you well yet. I used to say, as long as nobody's getting killed or something, nothing's burning down, Then we're good.
00:42:06:04 - 00:42:13:07
Speaker 2
And. And that's the world I came from when I ran. A SWAT team is all right. Is there a fire or gunfire? And if. Yeah, nothing's going on, I.
00:42:13:08 - 00:42:31:12
Speaker 1
Love your story, by the way, but this story is so awesome. Like, just how just you're just your story in general from where everything you've done in your career to where you are, it's like it's so inspiring. I love the fact you started our podcast with I Sold Drugs. You literally started the podcast. That was the most hilarious line ever.
00:42:31:14 - 00:42:45:04
Speaker 1
Everybody knows Adam, obviously, you know, was with SWAT and everything, but just you've done like so many interesting things in your career. It's fascinating. Like my life sounds boring compared to yours. So no, it does.
00:42:45:04 - 00:42:49:13
Speaker 2
Well, I'll crack open some of those crazy stories where you're one of these days over a beer, my friend. So.
00:42:49:15 - 00:42:50:06
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:42:50:08 - 00:43:10:19
Speaker 2
Yeah. All right. To kind of take this whole thing home, you know, again, start with a win is about leadership and personal development as well as, you know, being a good person. And we all start our day with a system of process to get us on the tracks and moving forward, be that faith or family or, you know, exercise or whatever it might be.
00:43:10:21 - 00:43:17:16
Speaker 2
James, I have a question I ask all of our great guests at the end of the podcast, and that's how do you start your day with a win?
00:43:17:18 - 00:43:42:01
Speaker 1
My daughter, I love every morning, so I my routine is I get up somewhere between five and 6 a.m. every day. I don't sleep as much as I should, The doctor tells me all the time, but and I start with her because she is just this bundle of energy, this great mix of her mother and father. It's exhausting.
00:43:42:03 - 00:44:02:13
Speaker 1
And but she but she looks at the world through innocent eyes. She has no idea what's happening in the world. She doesn't know about politics. She just she just knows her mom and dad. You know, our dog, Bailey, her nanny to help. Like, she just she has four people in her life that she absolutely loves and the doors.
00:44:02:13 - 00:44:30:20
Speaker 1
And to wake up every day and go get her out of her crib, she's almost three and and just she's excited this morning. She wanted to she wanted me like, well, you play with the football. I'm like, it's 630. Sure. Right. So but you get that moment instead of instead of dealing with drama, like in my email or my phone or whatever I start my morning with with my win is somebody who brings joy to my life and a smile.
00:44:30:22 - 00:44:50:05
Speaker 1
Then I jump in to be in fireman for the rest of the day. But at least it's a positive way to start the day. And I end my day just to, you know, to put a ribbon on that with my daughter again and spend time. We cook dinner together. And so I try to start and end with a positive because the middle being a leader's tough.
00:44:50:07 - 00:45:04:10
Speaker 1
There's nothing easy about being a leader. It's just isn't. It's you're always the final decision maker and there's some wins and there's some losses and a lot of in-between. But if you start an end with a positive, then it makes it easier.
00:45:04:12 - 00:45:22:09
Speaker 2
So I love that. James Wiggins, CEO, founder of Next Home Rules Day and a bunch of other companies, for that matter, a key leader, an influencer in a real estate space, a great friend and one hell of a nice guy. Thanks for being. And start with a win, my friend.
00:45:22:11 - 00:45:24:00
Speaker 1
Appreciate it. Thanks for having me.