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What does it mean to live fully? On The Intense Life, John Mashni sits down with leaders, creators, and everyday people to explore stories of courage, creativity, and purpose. Honest conversations. Surprising insights. A reminder that life is too short to live half-awake.
TIL - Mike Maddox
John Mashni: John Mashni here with the Intense Life. I am here with my friend Mike Maddox. So cool to chat with him. I actually love chatting with him. Um, and just for, uh, just a quick intro to Mike. Mike has been in the business world. Uh, ran a, a company, um, an IT company for a long time. Right? 20 years or long time, right.
Mike Maddox: A very long time. More than 20. More than 20. More than 20. Okay.
John Mashni: More than 20. But I, you know, I feel like I've known Mike for probably close to a decade now. Um, and he's out of the IT space. Um, and now, uh, a professional EOS implementer really helping companies get in. You know, get control of their business rather than having the business control them. But I love talking with Mike generally just because there's such a weight to anything he says from experience level and from just, you know, many, many years of, I would say, um, well learned or hard fought, you know, hard learned lessons, whatever you want us to call it. And, um, he also has just a great heart. So I think he's truly someone that's trying to do the right thing and treat people well. And focused on the people around him and really just adding value. And it's been amazing. So you've, you've been a great friend and, you know, professional, um, uh, in the many years that we've known each other. So thank you for agreeing to chat for a little bit.
Mike Maddox: Oh man, John, I, I appreciate you having me on. What a great intro. I appreciate all the kind words. Uh, I mean, likewise, man, I, let's, I'm looking forward to this every time we talk. It's a blast and, uh, been looking forward to being a guest on your podcast.
John Mashni: Yeah. Well let, lemme just jump in. Like, how, what, what do you, when you, I know you worked for a lot of years, you ran a company for a lot of years, you kind of were looking for something else after that and you eventually landed on being an EOS implementer, right? Yeah, yeah. Like how, what, where did, how did that decision get made and like Yeah. How do you view that as like an extension of your career, like. Maybe a logical extension, like what, you know, how do you view that? Like how does that fit into the puzzle for you?
Mike Maddox: You know? Yeah. No, it, it, it happened like organically over time, right? So there wasn't a point in time where I, I didn't wake up one morning and say, I'm gonna start, uh, I career as an EOS implementer and coaching leadership teams. What happened really was much more organic. Um, at the IT company that I, that I owned and ran for, you know, 20 plus years, uh, a SK was the name of the company. We, uh, had the, the blessing of just phenomenal growth over like a 10, 12 year period between like 2004, 2015, 2016, and what used to be a little company was getting much, much bigger and. With all the, you know, all the, all the growth came a whole bunch of people, right? So all of a sudden we had all these people, and with the people came all kinds of complexity, right? So what used to be really easy and fun was not so easy and fun anymore. And I was kind of, you know, struggling with that. I mean, the company was still doing well and, and making money and being profitable and serving clients well, but. Everything seemed to be harder, right? Everything seemed to take a lot more work,
and we had that feeling of just kind of hitting the ceiling, as they say, to use that phrase, or just stuck in the mud, and so. I, I was at a, at a CEO group that I belong to, um, still belong to, and an EOS implementer was our guest speaker and he was talking about this comprehensive system of tools and processes that help you do what you said in the intro, which is get a grip on your business and, and really get to the point where you're running your business. It's not running you. And you have a real breakthrough, uh, and momentum and, and traction. And, and, and he talked about this book called Traction that Gino Wickman had written. And I'm sitting there listening to him and he's going through, what is EOS? What are the tools? What's the process? What does it look like? And everything he said was resonating with me, right? I was like, I think that's what, that's it, right? I think that's it. But, uh, I was really hesitant because I went back to the, to the company. I went back to the office. I kept thinking, you know, if I just go into my leadership team and just introduce this, there's gonna be skepticism. And yeah, that's for good reason because I had introduced a lot of things over the years, right? I'm a visionary type, so it wasn't uncommon for Mike to show up and go, we're gonna do this. This is awesome, right? Here's a new thing.
John Mashni: Like, and everyone's like, oh, no, what's, what's, what are we gonna hear now?
Mike Maddox: Yeah, the, the reaction typically was like, oh, Mike must have been at a conference last week, or Mike read a book, or he, somebody sent him an article. I thought somebody was supposed to be watching that to make sure that didn't happen. Um, so yeah, long story short, what I did is I just, I called, I called that implementer and I said, Hey, um, and, uh, Ryan Henry, a guy you and I both are friends with and know Yeah. And I said, Hey, Ryan, um, would you come. Do that, that whole thing you did. We, they call it a 90 minute meeting, but I, I, I didn't know that. I'm like, can you come do that whole dog and pony thing? You did. Like, come to my leadership, come to my office and do that. And he is like, sure, you think it, you think it's a fit. And I'm like, I don't know. I, I think it's a fit, but I want to know what my leadership team, so he did and they were all in, like you could see their eyes light up. They had the same reaction I had. And so we started a, a, a couple year process of implementing EOS with Ryan. It was, it was amazing. Like over, over the couple years that we, we worked hard at implementation. We got just complete alignment on everything at every level of the company, on the vision of the company and real traction and accountability. All those complexity issues that we had had started to disappear. Uh, we started to knock down issues a lot faster, solve issues a lot quicker. Um, and you could just feel it like it was like. Everybody in the company just felt it. And, uh, so a couple years after that, I sold the business. And in that interim period, uh, between before I sold the business, I started telling our clients about this thing. Right? Uh, and a lot of that came about by accident too. Our account managers would start running what's called an L 10 meeting with, with our clients. For their quarterly check in calls, quarterly, check-in meetings.
John Mashni: Ah, okay. And,
Mike Maddox: and C. And clients were saying, this is really efficient. Like this is a great way to run a meeting. Where did you find this? And they would say, well, we do this thing called EOS. And they're like, what's that? And then they would come back and go, Hey Mike, would you go
talk to them about EOS? So I would go out and just tell 'em this is what we did. It's called EOS. So I became this kind of, um, advocate, right? Unintentionally just tell 'em, this is what my experience was, and they would ask me to introduce them to a coach, which I would. And then those coaches, Ryan and others that I knew, started to tell me, Hey, Mike, this is, I appreciate you thinking of me, but I'm like really busy. Like, I have 25 clients and I'm, I, I mean, and then I remember a couple of 'em said, why don't you do this? Like you, you're passionate, you love this, you've lived it. So when I sold the business in 2021, that was the plant. I, I went and I built my franchise. I went to bootcamp. I did, I did all the, you know, everything I needed to do to be an EOS implementer and help other businesses, uh, with the intention that I would stay with the business for about six months to a year, uh, help with integration and then, and then go help other companies. And I started to actually help a couple other companies too in that process. But. The company that I sold sold ASK into was trying to merge a bunch of different companies together during the pandemic. They all had their own culture. They, they were in different parts of the US and Canada. They all were very proud, independent, privately held companies we couldn't meet in person. There were a lot of foundational problems with that, um, mainly due to timing. Right. The pandemic, you know, made it much more difficult. Yeah. Um, so the, they, the company ended up asking me to stay, and I agreed to stay for a couple years and run that business. And really what I did was implement EOS from, from the presidency of convergence, the name of the company that, that bought us, and did that for a couple years, was able to retire, and by the way, did the same thing there at a much larger entity than it did for my business. Uh, you know, alignment, traction, accountability, health, all that. Um, at the end of 23, I was able to step away and, uh, now I, now I just help other businesses full-time. That's what I do.
John Mashni: Yeah. And I think it's cool. I think, you know, I know a lot of people that, that are in the EOS Community, whether they're a company running it or like they're implementers like yourself. I think I really love the implementers who had EOS implemented at their company. I just think it's a unique position where they go through it, they have these tremendous benefits. They feel that freedom that comes from a, having traction, right? And having your those, those six elements really. And I know nothing's perfect, but sometimes just dial it in just a little bit and it just makes such a huge difference for people. So I think it's really cool. Yeah. Your background is cool how you kind of went from, you know, having it implemented in your company to now you're helping people.
Mike Maddox: Yeah, I think it does matter, right? I've, I've, you know, I can, I've been where my clients are, right? So when they get stuck or they're, you know, they're, they're struggling with solving people issues, right? I remember. The, my struggle with that or, uh, they're struggling with their core processes. I remember, you know, having a completely misguided view of what a core process was. And, and so it helps to kind of relate to, you know, the. It's an incredibly simple system. EOS as you know, 'cause I know you know it. Uh, but it's not, it's not easy, right? It's simple, but it takes a commitment and it takes work to, to get it. But it's, the return on investment is more than I could even articulate, right? It was an amazing, amazing thing for us and for, and for, for the bigger company and, and for the clients that I've worked with too.
John Mashni: Well, here's a question for you about EOS. Um. What's the hardest thing that you notice that like a company, or let's just say usually I think it's the entrepreneur, the business owner, you know, feels some stress, feels like things maybe are out of control or there's, there's just some, like it's either over overtaking their life or they, maybe there's like just a anxiety associated with their business. What's the biggest kind of barrier to someone like that to, to really like getting to that point of freedom? Right. Or what they call the vine, you know, life beyond the vine or, you know,
Mike Maddox: letting go of the vine.
John Mashni: Yeah. Like what is, what are some of the things that hold people back? Because I think, you know, when, I think when I, I love EOS, right? I think it makes this, the con, the concept itself is like, Hey, it's an operating system for your business, right? So yeah. If you don't have an operating system, you're just kind of, Hey, I think we should have a meeting, or there's a problem and let's, you're, I feel like you're always in reaction mode, right? And you just never really get out of it unless you have. A business operating system that says, Hey, here's how we do this, here's how we have a meeting. And, and it's like you said, it's simple. Here's how we have a meeting, here's how we hire people, here's how we fire people, here's why we fire people. Here's why, you know, all these kind of things. So I'm just interested from your experience, like what are some of the things that hold people back from just embracing what I would, what I agree with you is like, it's a simple system.
Mike Maddox: You know, I probably, the, the, the most. How do I phrase this? The most, um, transitional part or the part that you know is, is completely new, um, for most businesses is getting the right people in the right seats with the right structure. And what, what I mean by that? Most businesses develop and grow organically, so over time, a leadership structure forms organically and a mid-level manager structure forms organically, and it just kind of happens, right? Yeah. And what we teach is different. Like what I teach is you start with the structure and you look at what is the right structure to carry this business forward into the future, meaning. What are the key seats that at the leadership level that we need to identify foundational seats where somebody sitting in them can be completely accountable for a function of the business. Not meaning that they do it all on their own, but that they own that and they do it really well and they love doing it, and they, and they know how to do it and they understand it. Um, and from that concept. You then define the roles of each of those seats very clearly. What is the person in the, in the sales and development leadership seat? What are they responsible for? And what is the person in the HR seat and the person in the Operations seat and the person in the Finance seat responsible for? And then you try to put the right person in the right seat. Right person is a, is somebody who is completely aligned with your core values. So you've gotta, you gotta do that first. You gotta know what are our core values as a business? And you have to be committed to them. They're not just for the website or to put on the wall behind the receptionist desk. Yeah.
John Mashni: Make you look good. Right. Or like, this is what we wanna appear a certain way. Right?
Mike Maddox: So like, yeah. So if you say that valuing, uh, valuing each other is a core value and you have people on your staff leadership level or not, who are caustic that are tough to talk to, that are difficult. You are not living your core values. You gotta call that out. And you gotta say, you're, this is one of our core values. To be a member of this very special team, you've gotta live this. So you either gotta change or you can't. You need to go somewhere else where you're a better fit. That's, that's the hard work. That's, that's transformative. And the reason it's transformative is what you talked about a minute ago, letting go of the bind. We, we call it, we use a tool called Delegate to elevate. Because most executives, most managers, in fact, most people in business, and you know this, uh, we all tend to work a couple levels below where we should be working. We're doing work that we really shouldn't be doing. And the reason for that is we, we can't delegate stuff. And the reason we can't delegate stuff is we haven't built that structure of the right people in the right seats so that we can delegate to somebody who truly understands that task or that that group of tasks. Has the capability of doing it and really loves doing it right, wants to do it. But once you get that structure right, which take, that's where the work comes in. That's, that's the inhibitor. And that once you get through that and you get the right structure and you get the right people in the right seats, and it doesn't happen overnight. This is incremental over time. You can, you can start to delegate, to elevate, you can start to build metrics and, and, uh, scorecards that matter because you know, somebody's accountable for each of these things. You can become a measurement driven organization, which, uh, that's another, uh, misconception I think is that measurement and metric based organizations are not healthy cultures. I think it's the opposite. I think good people wanna know objectively, what does it take to do my job at a high level and how, how are we gonna jointly measure that? It could be one, two, or three numbers. It could be any, you know, it could be one number. Yeah. But what is it? What is the objective measurement? What am I accountable for?
John Mashni: Yeah. Mike, I, you're, I think you're, this is just great, you know, great observations. Here's, here's a question for you. I think, and this is something I've noticed too, is a lot of times people in organizations get frustrated because they want to do a good job. They truly do want to be good in their role, but they feel like. There, there's not clarity about what the role is. So it could be like you said, someone like, and a lot of times I think when I deal with, because a lot of my clients are visionary, you know, entrepreneurs, business owners, or they get tons of ideas. But I feel like when you're around someone like that and you don't have clarity about, well, what am I actually supposed to do? Am I supposed to do this new thing? Or am I supposed to do the thing? You know, something else? Or is there a, like a core process, right. I feel like when you're bombarded. By the ideas and you don't have clarity about, well, what am I actually accountable for? Then that's where people really struggle and, and I just know that from my own experience in organizations. But I'm curious, like how do you, do you feel the same way or is that one of the problems that you see it Yeah,
Mike Maddox: yeah. I see it all the time and I lived it, right? I mean, I lived it in my own business where there was, it's not intentional. It's, it's a function and it's an outcome of that organic growth where there's a lot going on and you're just trying to get everything done and you're, you said it earlier, you become very reactionary. You become very reactive instead of proactive. If you, if you can build the structure right with the right people in the right seats, and you can have the right core values and you can get the vision established of where you're
headed, you can as a company start to, uh, embrace the idea that we need to get, we need to get focus, meaning. We're not gonna do everything that that could be done in the next 90 days. We're gonna live in a world where we identify the three to seven biggest priorities for this next quarter, and we're gonna be committed at, at every level to, to solving those issues, to, to, to completing those objectives. We call 'em rocks in EOS to, uh, Stephen Covey's term. We're gonna, we're gonna put all our human energy in that direction. And then getting everyone, uh, in the company to understand their role. Because often there is, just by virtue of the way that the structure has organically grown, just mass confusion over whose job is what is what, right? And two people are doing the same thing. Nobody's doing this. Uh, somebody steps in and fills the gap, and that's kind of the way you find it. But when you get intentional about that stuff to be proactive, like you were saying, you can really move the needle. That's what traction's all about. You start to get a speed of movement in your business, that's like uncanny. And that's, that was our experience. I did a survey like, um, eight, probably nine, 10 months, an employee survey after I, we started implementation and. I did those regularly measure engagement, right? And involvement. And mainly to come up with what can we do better, right? Ask my staff, what can we do better? Where, where are we missing the mark? So I've been doing that for years. And the survey, in this survey, about 10 months after we started implementation, I asked the question, how fundamental is EOS to our long-term success? Because they had just, we had just rolled it out. People were hearing about it, they were learning it. We were doing, starting to do L 10 meetings. I don't think everybody was even in an L 10 meeting yet. Like we weren't fully rolled out yet. And what's interesting about that is on a scale of one to 10, how fundamental is EOS to our long-term success? A hundred percent of the staff answered 10. And in my company, I had never seen that in fact. In my company, it was an IT company. It's an IT company, right? So IT folks, not to, not to characterize, but they tend to think they're very skeptical by nature, right? Sure. So yeah, if the idea wasn't theirs, yeah, I, so they're usually, you know, usually the response I would get to a survey question was they would question the question, the foundation of the question, right? So it was like 10 across the board, like they were all in. I remember saying to my business partner, Leo Ori. I don't want to, but I couldn't take EOS out of this business if I wanted to. Like, they're so committed. Like we could just feel that momentum.
John Mashni: Yeah. Well, it's, it's, yeah. I think it's fascinating and I think, you know, one of the things that I, I think is any business, if you truly want, if you're in the business, not to just be busy, right? If you, if you're trying to make your business work for you. Rather than you just be a slave to the business, I think you need an operating system. And I think EOS is, is like really, uh, you know, I'm not gonna say best or whatever. I just think it is a fantastic program. Like it is fantastic. Yeah. And, and, and I, and I just think to me like you have to have an operating system and I think EOS is built so that it's simple to, like you said, simple. Um, people can follow it. It's not easy. I think it's simple, it's straightforward and it's, I would just say it's a beautiful way to get organized and get, like, like you said, get some traction. Um, yeah, I
Mike Maddox: agree with you. I, I, I use that statement a lot, uh, when talking to, uh, business groups or even a potential client that wants me to come out and talk to their leadership team. You, you don't have to choose EOS. Like I, there's, there's other things you can do, but you do need an operating system. Yeah. Like you, you need one. US is the one I I know and I
experienced and I've seen the fruits of it in a lot of other companies. But if you don't choose that, choose something else. Right. But choose an operating system.
John Mashni: I wanna pivot a little Mike, 'cause I know we just had the conversation last week about the a, a book, and I actually don't remember how this came up, but I think you just said the term so good. I can't ignore you. Remind me.
Mike Maddox: A joint friend of ours had said to me in a, in a breakfast meeting, he said. We were talking about how do we represent our faith in business, right? Because we're both men of faith. And he made the statement, he said, probably the best way you can do that is be so good. They can't ignore you. And I reiterated that phrase to you, and then you told me,
John Mashni: well, I said, there's there's a book. Yeah. Have you read the book? Yeah. And uh, and I went,
Mike Maddox: there's a book
John Mashni: by Cal Newport. It's, it's, it's honestly to me. Gosh, when I read it, I was so mad. Um, in fact, I didn't even wanna read it. Um, but honestly, you know what pushed me over the edge, the phrase so good they can't ignore you, comes from one of my favorite comedians, Steve Martin. He was on a, he was getting interviewed, I think it was Charlie Rose. I could be wrong, but you could Google the clip. So good. They can't ignore you. Steve Martin, and I think the interviewer asked him, what advice would you give to someone? That's coming up in this entertainment, you know, space. And he said, be so good. They can't ignore you. And I just, it was fascinating. And that interview prompted the author Cal Newport to write this book called So Good. He called it so Good They Can't Ignore You. And the premise of the book, which this is what made me mad, okay, was that the advice follow your passion is actually horrible advice when we tell, we tell people all the time, you hear it all the time. In fact. I used to love Joseph Campbell. I still love Joseph Campbell, but he, you know, one of his phrases was, follow Your Bliss. And I remember reading Joseph Campbell, you know, very in my, in my teenage years and just I, that resonated with me. Follow Your Bliss. And now you have Cal Newport coming in saying, that's horrible advice. It just, I just was like, I couldn't, it couldn't, I couldn't process that. Right. But I'm curious because I, I think you, I, I did write an article about it. You read it. Tell me what you thought of the, the content. Tell me what you, how you reacted to it.
Mike Maddox: Yeah, no, your article. And I would encourage, like you should post this, uh, on the podcast. A link to your article is really good. You titled it, um, uh, I initially hated this book, but now I tell pretty much everyone to read it. ASAP, and as I went through your article, I, I could completely relate to what you were saying, which is. Intuitively, something didn't seem right to me in, in the advice that following your passion is horrible Advice like that doesn't, like, it doesn't hit sit well with me. Like when I first hear it, I'm like, no. 'cause I, 'cause I teach, I, you know, I want, I want everybody in the company doing, doing jobs. They're really good at that. They have the ability to do and that they love. Right? I thought, well, that's following your passion. But what the, what the author of the book's talking about is something different. He's saying, you don't just decide what you're passionate about and then go follow that. Because I could be passionate
about pickleball. I am now, I'm learning to play pickleball, but I'm not gonna make any money playing pickleball. I mean, if you see me play, you'll know that. Um, so I could just, I'm gonna quick coach. I get mentioned saying to, to Anna, my wife, Hey, I'm not gonna coach anymore.
I'm just gonna. I'm gonna pickleball, is it For me, I'm passionate that And golf. Golf, because I'm passionate about that too. So I'm gonna do both and see what, see if I can get on this senior tour, she would, she would like, that wouldn't go well. That wouldn't be a good, so what he's saying is, you know, and you can describe it better than I can. 'cause I haven't read the book yet. I'm going to, it's I have it. He's saying that you develop your passion. By, by honing your craft, right? I mean you first hone a craft and then you will discover your passion. Am I saying that you think I'm describing that correctly? So
John Mashni: here's, here's why I tell pretty much everyone to read this book, particularly young people that at the, at the beginning of their career, I think that, and I'll just relate it, I think the article spells out my own example, but essentially, I love storytelling and I love movies. And I did as, as a young man, as a teenager. So follow your passion would be John, just go to Hollywood. Go. Your passion is what you should follow and what you should use as a guide and being passionate is what is going to make you successful. And what Cal, I think the point of the book is to say like, it's actually bad advice. The book gives this great example of this person who was passionate about meditation or becoming a monk, and he, he is like lives on a mon, lives at a monastery for like 10 years. And after 10 years he is like, what did I do? Like what? You know, it just, it, he didn't get what he wanted by following his passion. And I think it really, to me, it's this idea of when you have a passion, you try to make the world cater to your passion, you're really being selfish and you're saying, what, what can the world do for me? I, and I love how he just turns it around and he says, no, go gain valuable skills first and be of value. Then once you're really good at what you do and how do you know it is? Like, how do you know if you're good at it? Will, will people pay you for it? Number one, because, not in a monetary greedy sense, but in a sense of it's valuable because it's valuable to somebody else. It's a skill, and he goes through how you can learn a skill through what he calls deliberate practice, right? Getting, mm-hmm. Iterating and getting immediate feedback. Then once you have a valuable skill, then he lays out a process. To develop a passion related to your skill. And I, I hated that advice because I just thought, well, I'll just go make movies and I'll just, I went to film school. Right. But now that I think about it, my life actually followed his, this book almost exactly right. I wanted to make movies and I wanted to be involved in storytelling. And it wasn't until I went to law school and gained the valuable skill of being able to provide legal services. Business advice, so to speak, to film producers and artists and creative people and entrepreneurs where to the extent that people would pay me to do it, that's when I started being involved in filmmaking, right? That's how I produce, you know, I'm on, I don't know what the movie is, 10th or 11th movies or whatever it is. That's how I then those filmmakers started to find me and ask me to help those business owners. Sought me out and wanted my help because I took the time through deliberate practice to gain valuable skills. And that, that is why when I, when I read the book, I was like, this is dumb. I wanted to throw it. And now the title is, well, I initially hated it, but now I tell everybody to read it and I'm telling my kids, I'm telling people I care about. Even, you know, someone like you's had a long career already. It's like, I think it still applies the same way. I'm curious how you, you know, process that.
Mike Maddox: No, I, I agree with you. I think, um, so for me, I would, I would look back and say, you know, I, I was never inherently passionate about technology, right? That was not, I didn't dream about technology. I didn't, um, what I was passionate about or what I became passionate about over time was how technology could help businesses, right? So. As we built this business and we brought in all these people, I brought in people that were passionate about that too. Now, I, this is in hindsight, like, I don't know, this wasn't like a, I didn't have this master plan. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I look back now and I go, you know, the people that I brought into the company that helped me build it. We're passionate about helping other businesses. That's really what drove them. And we used technology to do it. That was just what we knew, or they knew I, I'm still not deep in technology, right? That's not my thing. But I did know that it could be a fundamental driver for business to be more successful and to help businesses get, you know, much more outta their company. And so the better we got at that, and he talks about it, and here talks about the craftsman mindset and the deliberate practice. That resonates with me. That's exactly what we did over decades, and that resulted in companies seeking us out. I mean, we got to the point where we, yeah, they were coming to us like, we would like to be a client. Like that's, that's the dream of every business person, right? Um, same thing in coaching, right? P hone the craft. Look at every day as an opportunity to get, I call it continuous, incremental improvement. Yeah. Every day I want to get incrementally better than I was yesterday through some intentional act or actions, right? As I, as I get passionate about that, I become, I become passionate about coaching, right? It just happens to be what I do, but my passion is helping people, right? It's a flip of what can the world do for me? I'm passionate about golf, so the world owes me a career in golf to I'm, I'm gonna learn how to help people, and I become passionate about that. Now I'm passionate about the tool that I used to do it, whether it be technology or um, coaching.
John Mashni: That's right. And I think just one thing on the deliberate practice, and I know we gotta wrap up soon, but. One of the biggest things I think is that getting that incremental improvement through feedback, right? Like having a coach, I think that really makes a huge difference.
Mike Maddox: Yeah. You gotta have people in your life, uh, that are willing to challenge you. Uh, be honest with you. Um, tell you what you need to hear, not what you wanna hear. And we all need that. I had a conversation with a longtime friend, business owner executive this morning where he said, you know, I think that the, a lot of generations have gone away from that.
There's a whole gap where they've gone away from that coaching, that mentoring, right. And, and we're missing something because that wasn't there. I think that that's important for all of us.
John Mashni: Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate that. Well, it's been awesome to chat with you, Mike. Why don't you share how pe if people wanna get in touch with you or learn more about what you're doing?
Yeah. What's the best way to get in touch?
Mike Maddox: Super easy. You can reach me at mike.Maddox@eosworldwide.com. Mik.maddox@eosworldwide.com. And uh, you can also find me at eosworldwide.com/mike/maddox or dash mattox. And, uh, if you, if you're interested in talking, I'd love to see if I can help you, uh, or at least meet you.
So I appreciate being on John. This is always a blast, man.
John Mashni: I love it. We'll have to talk more and once you do read the rest of that book, I'm, if you, if you do read it, let me know. 'cause I think, yeah. Um, I'm an evangelist for the book now. Right. I tell everybody to read it. And when you said that phrase, I was just like so excited.
I was like, Mike, wait, are you talking about the book? Are you talking about the Steve Martin interview? Like, what, where are we gonna go with this? I was so excited. So. Awesome man. I will Great, great to chat. This is John Mashni with Mike Maddox and, uh, just saying right now counts forever. Take care. Thanks a lot, Mike.
Thanks John.