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You are a business owner who wants to prioritize people and planet over profits (without sacrificing success). That can feel lonely—but you are not alone! Join host Becky Mollenkamp for in-depth conversations with experts and other founders about how to build a more equitable world through entrepreneurship. It’s time to change the business landscape for good!
Becky Mollenkamp (00:01.592)
Hi, welcome back to our series we've been doing of interviewing some of our readers for Feminist Founders and doing a little coaching and talking through 2026 and beyond and how you want to show up. And today we're joined for the first time ever on Feminist Founders with co-founders, with two folks instead of just the one. And it's interesting as Faith and I are in a partnership and you two in a partnership, it'll be fun to do. However, there's a lot of us in the room. So we'll try really hard to make sure that.
people know who everyone is. And to that end, I will introduce each of you and have you say something too so people can hear your voice and know who's talking. So we have two founders from Fixchr I hope I'm saying it correctly. Yeah, good. It's spelled, it's not Fixtur, like you have a fixture in your house. It's F-I-X-C-H-R. And we have Sarah Durlacher Is that correct? I said that one right? Durlacher yay. And Meg Buzzi. And so Meg, if you want to kick us off by just...
Sarah Durlacher (00:52.496)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (00:57.42)
for people to hear your voice and tell us a little bit about what fixture is and then we'll go to Sarah next so people can hear her voice and anything she wants to add about your company.
Meg (01:05.39)
Absolutely. So Sarah and I have been working together in various capacities since lockdown in 2020, which is how we met. But Fixture is really a boutique consulting organization that really works in helping support change at a variety of levels. So it might be at an organizational level, at a project level, at an individual leadership level.
So we've both grown up in different industries, but we all bring a big set of tools and techniques to groups of people perform together, to help them create things. And most of that has to do with change and changing behavior. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (01:55.474)
Perfect. All right. And Sarah, you're joining us from New Zealand, which is exciting. And the fact that we were able to get all of the time zones to line up is also almost a miracle and fantastic. And so Sarah, anything you want to add and then maybe, maybe specifically around who are your clients? Like who do you typically work with?
Sarah Durlacher (02:00.92)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Durlacher (02:06.299)
Yeah.
Sarah Durlacher (02:16.198)
Yeah, I think what Meg shared is pretty on point. I like to think of our work as helping people to engage in whatever the thing is that they're trying to do. So, you know, when organizations go, oh, we need to like start this whole new business line, or we need to close down this whole thing, or we need to like move over here. Like, how do you actually do that? Well, people need to
pay attention and be engaged. And we bring in lots of tools to do that. And our clients really vary. We've worked with government organizations, we've worked with nonprofits, we've worked with startups of lots of different sizes. think like, and Meg, maybe you can comment on this.
there seems to be a pattern where an organization is growing, they're at somewhere between like 15 and 30 people and they're graduating from all having really strong relationships, but they're really facing something in the market that is moving them, causing them to need to move and change and kind of grow up a bit.
And, and yeah, organizations who are in that phase are like, yeah, I think that's a pattern of them coming to us and saying, Hey, can you help us figure out how to do this? And usually the question is, can you help us figure out our strategy for the next year and, convene people and get the best out of that convening? or it's, or it's, Hey, can you help us like speak to our market?
in a different way, speak to our customers in a different way. So the way it looks like looks different. But I think that's kind of a sweet spot that I'm noticing. And I'm wondering, Meg, if you notice other patterns as well. But we work with larger organizations as well. But oftentimes, it's like a smaller team who's trying to do something very specific. And we're helping that team then take on a new.
Meg (04:35.917)
Yeah.
Sarah Durlacher (04:44.646)
way of being or doing and doing.
Meg (04:51.214)
Yeah, I would add just my background for 20 years was in higher education and state government and getting anything to change at that level. And I mean internally, so like the internal workings of teams. I think like Sarah and I both have been very like internally focused when we were inside organizations doing work. And so how do you get people
to turn around a project that's failing or how do you move things forward? And so really looking at behavior change, which engagement is a part of that or incentives are a part of that, HR is a part of that. And just looking at all of the that we can convene people in order to completely alter the landscape, right? And for...
for us historically, and especially, I'll just say in the US for the last like 10 years, most of the change that happens in orgs is driven by technology, like, there's a new system coming in, or there's a new regulation, and so we have to put a new system in. And so we cut our teeth in very technical places, helping deploy software and things like that, that we're gonna change behavior. But we learned very quickly in both of our careers that
It's not the technology. It's not about the technology. It's about like, how do we actually get people moving in a similar direction or want to move together, want to be different together, want to be operating in a new way together. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (06:33.464)
Mm hmm. Well, perfect. I think that gives us a really good insight into how you all are working and what that looks like. I want to just quickly share, as we've said in these previous episodes, we sent a survey for folks who are interested and we had you check a couple of statements, the ones that most sort of rang true to you and or the ones that you felt like if you were able to embody these more.
that they would give you sort of what you're seeking in 2026. So you each completed your own survey. So it wasn't a joint one and you checked different things. So I think it'll be interesting to hear. So Meg, you've checked. I know, right? And they don't match, but that doesn't mean that they don't work together. So you checked Meg, I believe in rest over hustle and I am rebuilding my capacity so that my leadership flows from restoration, not exhaustion. And Sarah picked, I am building a vision of a more equitable life honoring world. And I know my work is.
Meg (07:07.822)
It's like the newlywed game.
Becky Mollenkamp (07:27.784)
of that transformation. Another one, I believe in challenging the status quo and systems that have harmed us. And then also I know the patterns I practice in my own leadership ripple through the cultures I helped create. And interestingly for both of you, when we asked if you were able to make 2026 feel however you would like, one place you did align was the word abundant. You both said you'd like next year to feel abundant. And this doesn't have to necessarily be the
path we go, because you're both looking for more of that feeling of abundance in 2026, I'm wondering if there's a particular challenge or pinch or something that you're like, if I could embody these statements more, I feel like they would help me move more towards abundance. Is there something in particular going on right now that is making you both sort of saying, if I could wave the magic wand, I'd like 2026 to feel more abundant.
Meg (08:18.126)
Sarah, you go first.
Sarah Durlacher (08:24.007)
Well, I appreciate you bringing back our answers to those questions, because at first I was like, I don't remember what I checked. And now that I'm hearing them and reading the list, I think I resonated with most all of them. And I just picked the top three because I was like,
Meg (08:24.622)
If only if you want.
Sarah Durlacher (08:50.535)
These seem the most meta and then I can kind of go into the detail, like the other ones were more detailed and I was like, oh, I could talk about any of those. And is your question like how to, how we're thinking about, how I'm thinking about abundance in 2026? Is that kind of, yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (09:08.052)
Well, or if there's a particular challenge, because we're, you know, to do a little sort of coaching around some of these issues, how do we bring these into the business? Wondering if there's an area jointly in the business where that's making you both sort of crave or desire 2026 to feel more abundant. And you both also like Meg said unfettered and you said spacious. Those also feel pretty similar.
Meg (09:14.274)
Yeah.
Meg (09:30.998)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (09:32.438)
So it just seems like since you both have a similar desire for 2026, how you'd like it to feel, I wonder if that's being born out of something, some challenge or something that's happening inside the business right now.
Sarah Durlacher (09:37.7)
Yeah.
Faith Clarke (09:41.815)
And I just, I guess, wanted to add that in the statements that you chose, and Sarah, if you were looking at the whole list, it's okay to choose a different one. But if you think about what you're living out right now and then look back at those statements, which one, if you were to embody it, would lead to more abundance? Because then we could prove that one for the tight spots in your practice.
that might not be yet there.
Sarah Durlacher (10:20.09)
and
Faith Clarke (10:27.061)
Meg, I saw that you threw Sarah under the bus. so I'm just saying you could also jump in with your hands. Yeah.
Meg (10:30.286)
I did, I did, because I had an obvious answer. Well, I have a very obvious answer and I wonder if Sarah will agree because it might be the same for both of us. But one thing I want to mention that I think is important context is that Sarah and I are in like different phases of life and I think it's a huge strength of our partnership. So I am an
Sarah Durlacher (10:34.555)
You have an obvious answer.
Meg (10:57.932)
I'll only out myself. Like I just turned 50. I have a teenager who's going to college next year. I'm perimenopausal. So there's a whole context, right? And Sarah has a different context because she's in a different phase of career, of life, of everything, you know? And so that's one thing that I think is reflected in our, maybe in some of our responses around.
or my response around rest, or even my response around how can I work even more effectively so my work is less, but I'm taking advantage of my 25 years of experience. But the main answer was that in this past year, Sarah and I have both taken on enormous caregiving roles for people in our family that weren't really ever supposed to be our responsibility.
And so I believe there's like a focus on abundance and also attention around time and priority. We seek freedom to be able to take care of all of the people in our lives that can't take care of themselves. And for us, that's elders, but it can look different for everyone. So I guess that would be like my primary, but Sarah, I wonder.
if you have another take on that.
Sarah Durlacher (12:28.837)
Yeah, I appreciate you bringing in that framing Meg. And I think when I think about abundance, it's like finding the balance between doing work that I know and Meg knows is like the right work with the right clients, like super aligned work where we can actually explore and learn more and like, yeah, just feel like.
feel like that work is additive and enriching and enlivening. And also, we're allowed to integrate that into the rest of our life and our day-to-day life in a way that feels spacious so that we can do the things that call our heart the most. Take care of, Meg spoke about,
you know, both of us having.
spent a lot of our energy doing caretaking this year. And yeah, my life circumstances are slightly different than Meg's, but like for me, it's also like focusing on the more artistic side of like exploring my own artistic side, because that also informs my work as well, right? It all connects. yeah, just expanding on what we think is
is possible and making that real in our day to day. And that also includes the financial piece. Like think when the word abundance comes up, I immediately think money at first and then when I step back and I actually think about what abundance is, it's like a lot more than that. But like money is an enabler so that we can flow into the things that we want to be doing, you know? And it goes the other way as well.
Becky Mollenkamp (14:25.452)
Yeah, because I hear a real piece around time as well, or just spaciousness, right? So the abundance in that way. I shared in chat for all of us here in the room right now, I shared all of the statements again, just so that you have them there. Because as Faith said, sometimes it just depends on the day you fill the thing out. So today, as we are here, I think the invitation is to look at those statements again. And as we think about this particular challenge around how do we create
Sarah Durlacher (14:27.875)
Mm-hmm.
Meg (14:29.87)
Sure.
Sarah Durlacher (14:31.473)
Mm-hmm.
Meg (14:39.406)
Thank you.
Becky Mollenkamp (14:54.424)
craft more spaciousness, abundance of whatever we need, whether that's time money or money to buy time, into our business in 2026. Which of these statements, as you look at them now, and you're thinking about that, really that framing of we'd like 2026 to feel more abundant, are there any that really jump out at you that you're like, if I could embody this more fully, I think that would help us be able to get to that place. Because I think that's where you're wanting to kind of head, right?
Faith Clarke (15:20.307)
And yes, and I have the second question queued right after that.
Becky Mollenkamp (15:21.218)
Yeah. Okay, perfect. But I'll give you a second. We can always edit out this quiet part for you to review them again and think about that. But when you're ready after looking at them, you can each let us know.
Meg (15:42.391)
I'm ready.
Becky Mollenkamp (15:44.832)
You can pick us off. Okay, perfect.
Sarah Durlacher (15:45.147)
think I'm ready as well. Yeah, go for it, Meg.
Meg (15:48.002)
yeah. Okay. You know, I'm still, I'm drawn over and over again to the statement about decolonizing how I work. And part of that is because I was a public sector employee for many decades. And I worked in pretty strict institutions that have a lot of built in, built in colonial BS. And
to unwind from that since 2019 is still a big project. And that's really important to me. And I don't know how it connects to abundance, but what I know is that as I work on it and practice my new way of being, things, obstacles will clear. just like, have faith in that. And also I know that I have to practice the way I want my clients to be.
Like if I'm going to embody the thing they're aiming for. So for me, it's about really just, yeah, keeping decolonizing myself. And I feel really lucky to get to live in Los Angeles right now because I feel like it's a very alive day-to-day conversation in the fabric here at every moment, especially after this last year.
Becky Mollenkamp (17:09.506)
Fantastic. And Sarah?
Sarah Durlacher (17:12.731)
I was drawn to the last statement actually, and I think it was one of Meg's initially. I'm rebuilding my capacity so that my leadership flows from restoration, not exhaustion. And I think I've been sort of on that journey since about 2018, I would say, when I had, think, I don't know, I've never said this publicly, but definitely burnt out from
from many facets of life, work, family. It was kind of like a trifecta of a lot of things happening at once and since 2018. I've just kind of had this moment of I cannot keep going like this, being this hyperproductive person taking care of all things. And that includes work and more. And so I think...
capacity is really important to me and the word restoration, the word restoration in the statement because like for me, moving to New Zealand has been about, the core of it has been about restoration and living in a place where the land and the people have a different way of being, which allows me to prioritize my own restoration in a way that I wasn't
wasn't really able to do in the States. And so I find that when I work from a restored place or a centered place or a calm place where I'm not doing three things at once, which is what I'm really good at doing, but it doesn't serve me as much anymore. And I see the sort of...
challenges of that. When I work from a place of feeling restored, then I do much, I just, I'm just a much better version of myself and can have a lot more impact in the work that I'm doing. And yeah, I don't know, I could go into a lot of detail there, but I don't know. Just for me that the restoration statement really, really lands with me. And I think...
Sarah Durlacher (19:39.783)
I was very influenced by, oh, maybe like, maybe around the time of the pandemic or a little bit after Tricia Hersey's rest, is it rest? Rest is, yeah, the Nat Ministry, rest is resistance. So yeah, that just really struck me. I was like, oh, oh, there you go.
Meg (19:59.0)
The Knapp Ministry.
Sarah Durlacher (20:09.061)
Yeah, so just like her work really just struck me and I was like, my gosh, is such powerful movement and I'm just, I'm on that train, it's very hard to do, but rest is easier in groups.
Faith Clarke (20:26.327)
This is a true. So I'm curious about something. Decolonizing work and rebuilding capacity and restoration. Use the word. Sarah, talked about burnouts and it reminded me of a colleague who calls it spirit murder. So this experience of the violation of your soul.
So if we are decolonizing, hopefully we're rebuilding capacity so that we are not harming our very core essence. What in this past 2025, when you think about your workflow or your work practice, what's an example without giving away who said what to whom, what's an example of something that needs to be decolonized so that
you have the space and the abundance and are able to rebuild capacity and be more restorative.
Faith Clarke (21:35.255)
Meg, it's okay if you have that, if you're that person in the classroom that says, I got the answer first. Okay, I just.
Becky Mollenkamp (21:38.488)
in the classroom that says I got.
Meg (21:42.092)
No, I don't think I have it. It's a great question. It's a really, really juicy one.
Sarah Durlacher (21:50.47)
and
Sarah Durlacher (21:54.535)
So I can say the first thing that came to mind. I also want to say I really appreciate both of your questions so far. And I love that we're just like diving right into it. I didn't really know what to expect in this conversation, like what your perspectives would be. And I just, I think the questions that you're asking reflect that you're both like, you're both just in there. You're just in there. And I'm like, great. I love that we're here with you.
The first thing that came to mind for me is like a clock, like the clock, like the time. And, and like, I just, so, so for me, I, it's just this thing where, you know, I, I'm all about rhythms and committing to rhythms of showing up for the people and showing up for the work. And I think that's
Meg (22:25.656)
soon.
Meg (22:33.537)
Team!
Sarah Durlacher (22:54.277)
like humans thrive in structure. But for me, the thing that I'm so most excited about when I do go into like more restorative spaces, like a meditation retreat or like a music festival is getting rid of my phone and not knowing what time it is and just being like, the sun's going down. It must be time for dinner. Like that just feels like, or like the sun is rising and I'm awake now, right?
and just not being beholden to time. And like when we first got on this call Meg, before you got here, we were just talking about time zones. And I'm like, my God, you know, I'm so intimately, more than intimately familiar with time zones and figuring out what time it is in LA and the East coast and what, you're 20, you're 19 hours ahead and blah, blah, blah. And so we're always navigating.
Meg (23:43.17)
Yeah, it's crazy.
In the parts of Europe, that's the worst. All the slices of Europe, you're just like hell.
Sarah Durlacher (23:52.423)
time zones, but it's just, it's like, I guess when I think about it, it's like these things that are just like the systems and things that we bump up against that feel, right? And time is one of those. I'm like, what time it is.
Becky Mollenkamp (23:59.064)
you
Faith Clarke (24:10.471)
I want to drill into that, but I just also need to get myself away as a Jamaican immigrant woman. I'm time fluid. I'm going to lose time. I'm going to lose time like nobody's business. It'll be three hours. Good thing Becky texts me and says, hey, we have a call. I will, right? So, and I am learning not to judge that, that when I step, because my work is in difference and bridging across difference.
Sarah Durlacher (24:12.465)
Mm-hmm.
Meg (24:20.105)
You're on island time!
Faith Clarke (24:39.019)
that it is just a different relationship to time versus what we do, which is moralized difference and say, you're bad, right? So I, I, I'm all kind of comfortable and let's just, you know, allow ourselves to redefine things. But first, before we redefine anything, what's an example of a moment this year when you're the way that you're relating to time in your business.
Meg (24:49.398)
OOF
Faith Clarke (25:06.291)
is feeling tight, made you feel tight, made you feel stressed, made you feel not spacious and not abundant. What type of situation in your either operations or delivery or whatever it is that kind of has that feeling.
Meg (25:24.878)
I I'll say, like, I felt, well, this is two-sided for me. about two, just two weeks ago, I shattered my lower leg and it was awful and I had to have surgery and I'm gonna have to have surgery again in a couple months and the whole thing was a crazy accident and whatever. This was like right on the cusp of us having to do several big interviews where we were conducting the interviews.
Faith Clarke (25:44.235)
See ya!
Meg (25:55.11)
And I immediately was completely like sort of panicked. I think I was in shock, but I was also like panicked like, my God, the amount of scheduling and time stuff we're going to have to do to reschedule these. That was the thing I was most worried about was like, this is with people in Europe and people in New Zealand and people on the West coast. my God. And so I let myself have that like little spin and then.
And the reverse of that is that when you're self-employed, you can be completely flexible in how you solve that issue. And how lucky am I that I have Sarah as a partner who immediately stepped in and was like, you're going into surgery. I'm taking the, I'm going to get up at 6 a.m. and take the interview. And I was like, wow, that would have never happened if I was still working at UCLA, for example.
Like there wouldn't have been anybody to step in or who would have been willing to step in or who could have because of the responsibilities everyone else has. like the way that we get to design our mutual aid, even from across the world from each other, it's like, it can be as big as our imagination allows, but that requires us, like, again, dissolving the old structures that like, I can't ask for that. We're like, she could never.
or whatever control freak thing I might have felt about it in the past. And so all of those things are signals to me that I've stepped far enough away from the institutions, but there's still so much work to do because I'm still triggered by the whole thing, you know? So I don't know if that's a decent enough example, but it feels really immediate.
Faith Clarke (27:43.981)
That's a great example. Sarah, do you have one or?
Sarah Durlacher (27:47.175)
Yeah, I mean, I have one from yesterday. Like I can speak to yesterday. I think yesterday morning I got up and did a whole bunch of work until about midday. And then I was planning on, I went to my osteopath appointment because I have some back and neck issues and it's like,
Faith Clarke (27:50.579)
yesterday.
Meg (27:51.115)
Ooh, yes.
Sarah Durlacher (28:16.323)
once a month, I gift myself this thing, but it's a bit of a drive, you know, there and back. And then, and then I was like, I got out of that appointment and I felt so good and so grounded. And I was like planning on listening to voice messages in the car, getting back to people, going home and going home and like finishing listening to that interview. So then we can process it today, Meg. And then, you know, all this stuff.
And then I just had this moment, I was like, I don't actually want to do any of that. I'm just going to drive my car home and then I'm going to get home and then, and then, I have about like 30 minutes until people show up for dinner. So I'm going to just like sit and have a tea and read my book, which was like, it felt so naughty, but I was like, I need to just like follow where my brain is. And if I just push myself back into.
the laptop, I just can't today. So it was just a nice exercise of like, recognizing what my expectations were of my time because it is between the hours of nine and five, you know, and then, and then just like shifting that. And yeah, just watching the brain. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (29:15.192)
I just can't today.
Sarah Durlacher (29:43.651)
say different things to me about that. But then just say, you know what, screw it. I'm just gonna like have a half an hour to like have a tea.
Meg (29:43.884)
Ruminate? Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (29:53.976)
And I have a feeling you have a question Faith before you do, I just really want to ask quickly of Meg, because you just mentioned you felt naughty, right? And earlier when Faith said something about moralizing time, Meg, you got really lit up. Like, seemed like something clicked for you or something. I just wondered if there was something in that that you wanted to share because it might relate to some of where we're headed here to.
Meg (30:13.962)
Well, yeah, I just think that we do have stories we tell ourselves about productivity and who we're accountable to and who we're responsible for. As long as Sarah and I are clear in our agreements and on our partnership, you know, like she gets to make that choice about her afternoon and I'm never going to dig her about that. It's not going to be a thing. You know, she doesn't have to come back to an office and justify it.
she just has to manage her own feelings about it, right? And I have to manage my own feelings about whatever I've decided to do this afternoon. It has helped to be global because it knocks you out of the nine to five. We've been knocked out of the nine to five for years now because you have to just take calls when people can take calls. And I work on Sundays because it's her Monday. So this stuff has helped to break it down.
But I also like to step into just being more intentional about time and what your body feels like at a given moment. And then making sure that your team or whatever group you're working with has explicit permission to be intentional about their own time. And there are certain agreements, obviously, you have to come to the same place at the same time sometimes.
Faith Clarke (31:43.255)
Well, I keep being curious about how this is playing out for you. So Meg, if Sarah had not been available to take over those interviews, do you feel the freedom to just tell the client, my leg is shattered, I need to reschedule? Yeah.
Meg (32:05.138)
absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. In this case, the client has a baby due. So there's like so much deadline. So actually in a former life, I would have been so stressed out about this that would have really impacted my physical health. And so I think another like embodiment of decolonization is just to be able to be relaxed in your choice.
Faith Clarke (32:33.292)
Right.
Meg (32:34.412)
Like I had a teacher once tell me, like, relaxed is power.
Faith Clarke (32:38.763)
Yeah, yep, yep.
Meg (32:40.558)
And from the tech world, Sarah and I both learned to slow down to move fast as well. So we know there's these paradoxes. And if we can be intentional, slow down enough to be intentional, then it helps alleviate these moments where you're like, what choice do I make? Or what do I divulge? Or what happens now?
Faith Clarke (33:04.503)
So where then is in your process time feels tight? Where then do you feel less free or less decolonized? Is your terms of reference down to the minute or your scope of work or whatever it is? I worked with a consultant where it was these 120 minutes and I was like, for God's sake, who's counting? Am I counting these 120 minutes?
Meg (33:29.954)
No, no, we agreed five years ago that we weren't going to log hours, that we were going to work by deliverable and by whatever kinds of indicators or performance things we'd agreed on with the client.
Faith Clarke (33:35.095)
Mm-hmm. Okay.
Faith Clarke (33:45.611)
So where is insight in your process?
Meg (33:46.006)
Yeah. Where's the tension? Yeah. Sarah.
Becky Mollenkamp (33:50.04)
Well, I'm curious if it has to do with the caregiving element. Is that what shifted and maybe made the 2025 feel? Because it sounds to me like I'm hearing a lot of reflected back from you a lot of really great places where it sounds like you have done a lot of this decolonization. You're changing that relationship with time. It still shows up sometimes, but it sounds like you have each other and even internally are able to work through some of that. But I'm wondering if the caregiving, because of that being a new sort of
challenge for you in this year? Is that what's maybe made time feel tighter this last year?
Meg (34:23.278)
I mean, my context is incredibly challenging. Like I'm a single mom of a teenager. I am the only caregiver for my one parent who lives on the other coast. There's a lot. Like I'm the textbook for sandwich generation. And so I think like everything that has occurred in the last, I would say two years really, has deeply impacted like
Sarah Durlacher (34:28.679)
you
Meg (34:53.578)
every choice I make. And I think having to manage my mother's finances, for example, is like another job. So I guess what I've noticed that feels really tight is this.
is the patriarchy, like the part at which I'm like, well, no one's coming to save me on any of these fronts. I am going to be the caretaker in these seven categories. There is nothing that's going to change that. I'm the primary breadwinner, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And I don't say that to be like winning the pain Olympics. I'm saying it to say like,
like my workload outside of my billable hours is gigantic.
And so I think.
I think there's a pinch where I fundamentally need to rethink what Sarah and I offer, or this is like a story I have, because I can't maybe even afford to be half-time. I need to find passive ways of earning that allow me to use my wisdom effectively and more abundantly, and this is where time comes in.
Meg (36:19.988)
For example, like I might have to take two whole days out of my week to go to a social security office and stand in line for five hours to maybe or maybe not solve something on my parents behalf. So it's, so it's just like this ridiculous crunch that predominantly women face. And I have to manage my own just rage about it. But on the day to day, I have to figure out like,
can I afford to take this like very high needs coaching client, for example? No, I don't have the bandwidth. I don't, I might not have the bandwidth to hold their meltdown, right? And that's different than how it was maybe five years ago where I could maybe hold 20 people in their meltdowns. But now, now I'm just looking at what are other ways that I can, serve and utilize.
my years of experience and yet not have it be quite as high a personal cost or time cost. That was kind of a long way of saying it, but I'm wondering how it comes through.
Faith Clarke (37:34.879)
Yeah, no, I'm hearing you loud and clear. And I guess, again, just for context, I have three adult kids who are adult offspring who are have a variety of complex needs. And my mom, we, passed a few years ago and 10 years of dementia. So.
Meg (37:53.664)
Yes, I'm in my 10th year of dementia care. Yeah, that's where I am. So yeah, you understand.
Faith Clarke (37:57.213)
And so, the math will never math. And not to mention the 80 % of care labor worldwide that women hold. So there is this reality that's outside of your business. And then there is your business as a home to the both of you and to whoever else is on team that...
can reinforce the reality outside or can cushion it. And so if you were, since your clients are people who are in transition and I, Becky's always teasing me when I come up with issues in my own business, she's like, well, you tell people all the time that the medicine you need is the medicine you're giving other people. So she gave me my own stuff last week. I would say, so you're in a transition.
What kind, how would you guide your clients through this transition where you, you you are, you represent an organization that cannot exchange time for money in the ways you have before and need to be able to earn whatever you need to be able to earn without the types of time commitments that you've had. How would you guide an organization that's full of employees like that?
into something different.
Sarah Durlacher (39:31.119)
you
Faith Clarke (39:31.819)
Sarah looks like she has a thought.
Sarah Durlacher (39:34.531)
I just love your question. You just put it right back at us.
Meg (39:39.277)
Yeah.
Sarah Durlacher (39:48.377)
Yeah.
Sarah Durlacher (39:58.385)
Yeah, I just think you've hit on like the crux of what Meg and I have been like working to navigate, especially in this last year, especially in this last year of our work. And I think we've definitely made some strides, right? Like, we don't say, hey, it's gonna be, we don't put out, we don't do contracts that say, this is gonna take us 10 hours and therefore we'll charge you this.
And we also say no to work that's too small. I think we could even do better and say no to some, like, you know, the work that we do take on, I think we could even do a better job of that. But I think like your question invites something even broader, which is like to put ourselves in the shoes, say we got a client who is us.
and what would we tell them? How would we help them navigate this current landscape?
Sarah Durlacher (41:11.233)
Ugh. I think...
I think there's like a few things that we're doing now that are like in process at the moment. So I think what we've been doing is, and Meg, you can bring more color to this, but the way I see it is instead of just getting client work and billing, we're actually starting some new.
new things and working on getting funding for various projects that we're working in on. And so we're like shifting from, yeah, we've just found our client work in the last year or two to be quite...
just like a lot of energy going into like proposals and like business development and like talking with people and then like the things that actually come through and our like paid work is like a lot smaller than before. It used to be more like this and then, yeah, and then we get that much work, but now it's like that. So I think we've been like forced to like relook at like how we're doing things and
and shift to a more...
Sarah Durlacher (42:47.727)
I think the first thing, like I just said is...
let's put energy behind starting these things and then getting funding on these things. And the other thing that we're doing is we're building our network more. So we're holding spaces for women monthly to basically connect and support each other. So it's not like a traditional networking event or like a speaker series where
people come in and just listen to someone talk, but we're actually saying how do we bring women together from all of our networks and then the networks of our networks and the networks of those networks and get them to support each other, ask for what they need, share what they can offer, put their voice in the middle. And so I think these are largely unpaid efforts right now, but hopefully
I think some of the bets we're making is, it's not really bets, but it's just kind of like, need to grow investments. Yeah, we're investing in growing our network and being like a support person, support people for that network to grow and start weaving. And then we're also like putting our weight behind a couple ideas and a couple ventures. Because you know, what we actually do is,
Meg (43:51.991)
investments.
Sarah Durlacher (44:14.075)
We are good at getting things moving and getting things started and getting groups of people working together well. So it's like, well, we help our clients do that, but we can also do that for ourselves as well. So that's a little bit of how we're shifting at the moment. I'm not sure if it answers your question fully, but I think I will sit with what you've asked a lot more and maybe.
Meg (44:18.338)
Thank you.
Becky Mollenkamp (44:29.058)
So that's a little.
Sarah Durlacher (44:41.977)
Maybe Meg and I can just have a separate call on that topic and really dive in because it's such a rich question. Thank you, Faith.
Faith Clarke (44:49.879)
And I, it's the kind of question that I'd be happy to either was to be happy to shoot the breeze with you on it because the kind of more fundamental redesign forces us to confront the hidden rules that we have about what we can design. My younger two are artists and I told them that when I was in ninth grade, I was told
Meg (44:50.669)
Yeah, being our own client.
Faith Clarke (45:19.037)
that colors across from each other on the color wheel shouldn't be beside each other, so red and green should not be beside each other. And my kid told me, she was like, but mommy, in nature, red and green are beside each other all the time. And I was like, right. Right. So that rule really doesn't work. But my art teacher, when I was in ninth grade, thought so. And I think that there are some rules that are probably hidden in how your practice operates right now.
Meg (45:35.15)
Poinsettia. Yeah.
Faith Clarke (45:48.087)
When you start to say, how would we make this different? That you'll kind of come close to them. One thought that is coming to my mind is that systemic issues can only be solved by at the beginning community and collective solutions. There is no you Meg sitting and thinking, how do I redesign?
And so as you talk about community that you're holding already, I just wonder what's the communal energy that you could use to answer some of the, yeah, the way life is showing up for you. I listened to a conversation by Mia Birdsong and she talked about these four women. Yeah, she's four women who started a cleaning business.
They had no childcare and so they designed the business so that one of them was always with the kids. And I just like, what are the ways that we can be more intimate in the weaving together of business and life so that we're solving some of the very real, very ordinary issues that we face.
Meg (47:07.808)
Okay, I love that. Thank you. That's, mean, what we would offer our clients is like a deep listening session and really like a brainstorming session, right to be in conversation about these things. So super appreciated.
Becky Mollenkamp (47:22.936)
Yeah, so that's that can be a step for you to is to offer that for each other and for the business. Because what I heard from you, Sarah is sort of when you start the initial thought of how do we give ourselves our medicine, it sounds like one is we need to rethink the ways we're approaching our client work, right? And trying to think about how do we make changes that reflect better where we are now than maybe where we were two, five years ago. And then also allowing yourself that pacing of we don't have to figure it all out today. We don't have the solutions can look
Like they take time, like building up this network piece, it will take time, but we know it's in service of how we want to show up. And then Meg, you're mentioning like doing that deep listening and brainstorming ideas. And I would just offer when you're doing the brainstorming, like Faith was just saying with what Mia shared, Mia Birdsong is, can you challenge yourselves to allow that brainstorming to be free from so many of the constraints that we often put on brainstorming because of that?
colonial, colonized way of thinking, right? Can I challenge myself to break out of that and really think of what might be possible that just doesn't even feel possible right now, right? So when you guys take that next right?
Meg (48:34.442)
Yeah, that's what we try to hold for our clients all the time. So yeah, it's, it's turning the mirror on ourselves, like you said.
Becky Mollenkamp (48:43.808)
And I think you mentioned Meg in your application too of like how you'd like the year to feel. You both had said abundant. You said unfettered. You said spacious. So that feels similar. And one of the things you said was moving like water. And when I think about the time and the constraints that so much of what you're feeling, feels like that's that piece that you just want to be able to both of you. mean, because Sarah, you're talking about like, want to be one of the reasons I love being in New Zealand is like the land and like everything here is geared towards how we.
show up as humans instead of like it is in the States. And so just that idea of how do we move like water in our business so that our lives can move like water. And I think that moving like water thing is something that you can, that imagery to hold onto when you two are having your brainstorming. Yeah.
Meg (49:27.948)
Yeah, for me, the water piece is also just has a little bit to do with surrender. Like not trying to hit every rock on the way out, you know, you're just letting it slide past, which also feels like back to that relaxed as power thing of like, just dodge it. You don't have to climb every single mountain. You don't actually, you can just walk around it. And so I feel like that too is a key. Like that feeling is what I want to aspire to, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (49:32.248)
Hmm.
Faith Clarke (49:42.444)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (49:48.728)
Mm-hmm.
Faith Clarke (49:55.703)
And I'll just offer this that because this is also a transition for me in my own business and I serve organizations that are about the size that you've described. There's an opportunity for me to shift my organizational avatar to people who are in slightly less crisis.
Because when people are in crisis, do, I mean, I go all in, you know, we need 11 interviews, we need to all the people. And I am inviting myself into the question of preventative medicine, which I love anyway, but I just, however I do it, I'm positioned so that people are reaching out to me when they should sit in the fan. And so how do you, time is less of a factor when we're in preventative medicine.
Meg (50:24.686)
Sure.
Faith Clarke (50:48.809)
And so I wonder about back to who you are inviting into transformation with you, your clients, and how you can position your work so that you can be in a gentle water-like rhythm versus, I see, cause people tend to feel like.
Meg (51:10.336)
This is so big. No, this is so important. I think what you're saying is really critical. And Sarah and I have had that conversation before of like, why do people come to us at the last minute when it's so bad? Why is it so hard to sell change before crisis? why do people only learn and to invite more people into the practice who are not in crisis? Yeah.
Faith Clarke (51:26.583)
And I tell people all the
Faith Clarke (51:34.527)
And the thing is that people, their pockets are out when they are hurting, but they also don't sustain the work well once the pain is gone. And so for our own satisfaction and for our own spaciousness, there is, I love the trans-theoretical model of change. I want them over here where I can be feeding them in the contemplation and contemplation.
and I do want them to put money into it then versus my foot is broken, it's shattered. And I'm just, I guess I'm just offering that specifically. And I'm also offering.
Meg (52:09.816)
Great.
Meg (52:15.02)
Yeah, we want some preventative physical therapy instead of emergency surgery. Right. Right. Yeah, exactly.
Becky Mollenkamp (52:18.961)
You're wanting to do family medicine, not emergency or doctors. You are doctor.
Faith Clarke (52:23.775)
And the US is so built on emergency medicine modeling every other area.
Meg (52:27.114)
I know, especially, yeah, especially the industries that she and I grew up in, and in like in technology and in certain areas where there's a lot of hysteria in some ways, you know, I know men don't have feelings and don't show their feelings in the workplace or anything, but you know, there's a lot of feelings.
Faith Clarke (52:47.379)
Except yeah, sorry you were gonna say
Sarah Durlacher (52:52.145)
Well, I'm really curious to ask you, Faith, how do you approach this in your work? Because I think this is, like Meg was saying, this is something we've talked about a lot. It seems that people come to us in crisis mode, and they need this thing in three weeks, and da-da-da-da-da. But meeting people in that place of understanding that they need to lay more of a foundation.
and be more reflective and be more intentional and maybe, and I'm curious for both of you as well. Like how do you approach that in your work? Yeah, I would really love to know.
Faith Clarke (53:37.495)
I'll say home.
I can spend an hour with you on the phone exploring that. I'll just say for me now, similar to Becky, similar to you Meg, I am 50 a lot. And the combination of perimenopause and all these things, bodily has me recognizing that I wanted a more preventative approach to my own physicality.
Sarah Durlacher (53:44.399)
Yeah. Okay.
Faith Clarke (54:10.315)
But when I think about my life as a mom, single mom, kids with complex needs and all this type of thing, I can map out where in my, I can, I know what I would have said, even if they were offering it. I know what I would have said that stopped me. It's a capacity issue. It is not the goodness of preventative care. It's the like between two and two 30 in the morning. Really? You think I should go to the osteopath? Cause when? Cause my son goes to sleep at two o'clock.
And my right, so, so there is a capacity question that is the precursor to getting them on the path of preventative care. And so my current work, as much as I love being in the messy middle with people, also computer engineer and I love to see systems in disorient. We'll put these two here, right? But that's not sustainable in terms of as a model. And so part of my
invitation to clients now is how can I help you fix your personal capacity issue because that allows your eyes to get a little bit clearer and you become more open to some preventative work because I can show you numbers for how expensive retrofit is. This is too hard but you insist on doing it but if we could support the capacity piece here and so this is my current invitation and I am
being more direct with that invitation and just saying you're exhausted and you can't build a sustainable work culture. So let me help you with this exhaustion piece. I'm gonna give you back 10 hours. With that 10 hours, we'll talk about sustainable work culture. don't tell them the second piece, but I am saying let's plug, yeah, as a woman, lots of my clients are women, let's plug the invisible labor gap, let's work on the things that are leaking out your energy.
Meg (55:44.92)
Thank
Faith Clarke (56:07.815)
in how you are designing your work so that we can then be in that place. And I think if we design our flows so that we solve that problem to cue up the problem we really want to be with them in better, we can have a more natural flow. This is my current experiment. So in 2027, I'll tell you how it's going.
Meg (56:27.267)
Love it.
Becky Mollenkamp (56:28.024)
And I would answer, although I work with some clients similar to where you all are at, maybe more that are a little bit smaller. So it may make a difference. But I would say the other piece is that urgency piece is such a sign of the white supremacist culture that for me, big part of it is too, the more that I show up speaking about
Meg (56:46.008)
Yes.
Becky Mollenkamp (56:51.212)
those issues and decolonizing our minds and our work, the more I am attracting folks who are also interested in that journey. And it doesn't mean that they've perfected that. They may still sort of wait until crisis, but they're going to begin to think about it more. Like I try to serve as that role of trying to help educate to bring it both to attract the kinds of clients who don't want to wait to urgency mode, right? And those who are maybe not, who aren't yet at that place, but are wanting to.
you know, work more towards that so that the kinds of clients I'm calling in end up being folks who are more spacious with their time, who are more flexible, who are more forgiving, who are able to say, I want to work on these things because I can see they could become an issue. Right. So like when you are talking about the spaces that you're creating for networking, I love that you're doing that. And then the intentionality behind, are we cultivating the kinds of space, the kind of space with the kinds of people
who are in that same journey, whether they're where we're at on the journey doesn't matter, but are they at least committed to that same kind of journey? Because that makes a big difference I find is the clients who just have no interest, they're gonna be the ones that just like, I'm always, my pants are always gonna be on fire, right? Because that's just the only way I know how to show up in this world. And I'm not interested in learning that. The people who are like, my pants are always on fire, but I would love to learn how to not have them on fire all the time. Like they may not be there yet, but they're interested. Those are gonna be the people that are more likely to be.
the kinds of folks you want to be working with.
Faith Clarke (58:23.361)
I'll also say that there's language that signals who these people are. And I think if you can use that language, then it'll be easier for you to kind of to find them. And I think one of the, this issue of time is a really, like there are people who are on it in terms of, you if you don't, you're respecting me by being on time. You show me that you're professional by completing within time and so on. And then there are other people who understand, time is circular.
or we made time up. I think when, if time is one of the ways that you can signal this difference, then being intentional about having this conversation early to understand how people frame time and to feed into the conversation a different response to time. So even when things are urgent now, I tell people that we won't solve this. It takes at least two years for this thing to kind of catch. And I'm not,
I'm not going to be, this is how we're going to go because like, if that person is leaving, they're going to leave. And I want to help you have them leave well, but let's be in prevention. And so I'm like, I'm careful with my language that I am always talking about the developmental arc that's going to be happening over a period of time. And we don't know, people are like, what's going to be happening in six months? Like, I can't tell you. I don't know.
And if they're turned off by that, unfortunately, they shouldn't work with me. I want them to know early.
Meg (59:56.386)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (01:00:01.056)
I want to be mindful of everyone's time. So we're at an hour. So we will start to wrap up. I just would love to finish by, know this is still sort of, it's going to be in progress in the same way. This is not a pants on fire situation. We don't expect to have the urgency of saying we're going to solve all of this right now. It's more of an invitation towards continued exploration for you all. But wondering as you're exiting, if there's anything that's sort of sitting on your mind that you're or that you're excited to explore or that just that you're exiting this conversation with either of you.
Meg (01:00:01.41)
you
Meg (01:00:05.166)
Thank you so much.
Sarah Durlacher (01:00:47.131)
Go ahead Meg.
Meg (01:00:47.678)
Just a lot a lot of really deep appreciation for both of you holding space for us. It's not often that I get to feel good holders of space. I'm usually the one doing the holding so very much appreciate that and Yeah, just really enjoyed both of your perspectives and eager to talk more so I'm walking away with
And really thinking about holding Sarah and I as our own clients for a minute. yeah, feeling really lucky to have met you.
Becky Mollenkamp (01:01:28.948)
Anything else Sarah?
Sarah Durlacher (01:01:31.097)
Yeah, I mean, I would say pretty much everything that Meg just said. I, you know, I know we're doing recorded interview right now, but I just I'm like, I just want to get to know both of you and hear more about your work and what you do. And yeah, I think it's just nice. Meg always says, like Meg said, that we're always holding holding spaces for people. So it was really cool to actually
dive into a conversation where I really felt that you were both like holding the things that we were saying and like pushing us to like go another level in and put the mirror up and yeah, I just haven't been in a space like that in a really long time. So yeah, I'm just really pleasantly enriched and nourished by this chat and then.
also leaving with a huge curiosity of the work that both of you do with each other, with the Female Founders group, and etc.
Becky Mollenkamp (01:02:41.816)
We need to do more episodes, Faith, about how we work together. I would love to hear some from you two too, just because it's such an interesting, the distance creates a different level, although we live in such a different world now. No, no, Faith's in New York and I'm in Newbury, so. We have a time zone difference, but it's a meager two hours, which is nothing compared to, you you are literally a day apart. But anyway, I just want to say too that this is an invitation for all of us.
Meg (01:02:50.606)
Right. Right. And are you both in St. Louis? Sorry. Okay. Okay. Got it.
Meg (01:03:05.442)
You
Becky Mollenkamp (01:03:08.824)
here, the four of us here as people who hold space for others all the time, and for anyone else listening who is a space holder for others, whether that is your paid work or not, that care work we do, that the reminder that we also have to be able to receive, we can't just give that we need to be able to receive that. And we need that for ourselves. And so it can be challenging because we're so used to being the one giving but we have to find ways to build that, bake it into our lives because we need it as much as we give it. So good reminder of that. And thank you.
Faith Clarke (01:03:23.884)
That's it.
Faith Clarke (01:03:34.743)
Absolutely.
Meg (01:03:36.43)
Mmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (01:03:36.92)
So much both of you for doing this. really appreciate it. Faith, anything else you want to say before we go? No? Okay. Well, I know.
Faith Clarke (01:03:41.431)
I could say a hundred things, but I'm going to stop here. Thank you so much for letting us probe and for leaning in the way you did. I appreciate it. It's always a risk that we'll probe and then people are like, no, nothing's wrong. Everything's good. And then we're like, yeah, it was like that episode. So I so appreciated just how you let us see how you were thinking and feeling.
Becky Mollenkamp (01:04:05.59)
Yeah, thank you both.