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The environment around us is a swirling vortex of chaos, but you can navigate it when you have an anchor that can keep you steady. Each episode, Liz Herl dives into data driven strategies and real world tactics with Dr. Tim Caldwell to help you become more grounded and centered in a world that is constantly shifting and changing. Learn to effectively navigate family strife, career challenges and handle the anxiety of the unknown that the news is constantly bombarding us with. Liz is a Licensed Clinical Marriage and Family Therapist and Dr. Caldwell is a retired primary care physician and personal trainer. You can lean on their decades of experience to find stability and peace without having to control circumstances or people around you. You can be anchored in chaos.
Ep03_Education_AIC
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Liz Herl: [00:00:00] Hello, Dr. Caldwell.
Tim Caldwell: Liz, how are you?
Liz Herl: I'm great. Fantastic. I'm good. Fantastical. That's great. So, I have been stewing around an idea for today's episode,
the expectations in education in today's society. Oh, it's kind of a mouthful. Yeah. I wasn't realizing like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
Tim Caldwell: hot button.
Liz Herl: Yep.
Lots of stuff.
Tim Caldwell: We talk about this stuff all the time.
Liz Herl: All the time. You, well, you're young men are grown, but they were obviously in the educational system.
And I I have a young man and a sophomore and a fourth grader. And so to public school, so that's kind of where I was going to go revealing some areas of education talking about our own education and that
Tim Caldwell: you and I have some. We have some interesting parallels.
Liz Herl: Pretty cool. Yeah. I mean, I think it's interesting. I think it, I think in today's [00:01:00] society there is and we, we've talked about the All the, we were just talking about this today, uh, individuals, we have letters behind the name and that, you know, it's, I'm still just a regular person. Like, I just have been an area, just a girl
standing in front of a boy, shut up
now you've shut
Tim Caldwell: anyway.
I, I follow what you're saying. And what I continue. Continue with your thought. Go ahead.
Liz Herl: Yes. Thanks for the interruption. Yeah, I'm sorry. That's nice. Thank you. Continue. Thank you very much. Shut up. So what I was going to say is that I had a bit of an education upheaval growing up. I didn't get proper education.
Yeah, I said that last time.
Tim Caldwell: You're one of them there. Homeschool heathens.
Liz Herl: Hey, I was only homeschooled because I wasn't a heathen.
Tim Caldwell: Oh, okay.
Liz Herl: So, yeah, that's another topic for another time. We will talk about religion, but not, I know that another time,
Tim Caldwell: how long do you want this podcast to last?
Liz Herl: I [00:02:00] am swinging for the fences.
Hey, you know, at this point in the game, I was rolling the dice every day. But yes, I was in public school until fourth grade. And I was raised within the Pentecostal faith. And it was a very structured religion. And my mom didn't feel that we were getting the best education in public schools.
And she didn't like the, Some of the way they, I, I remember, I think I shared this to I was at, in an Allison Wonderland play in like third grade. And I remember I was one of the queen cards and I got to wear lipstick. And in, in my, in my upbringing you did not wear any makeup. Jezebel, yes. Well full on heathen today.
But yes, I was able to wear lipstick, but my mom was very unhappy about that and she felt like that that was really gonna kind of sway me into and so I think within that and just some of the, you [00:03:00] know, sign the sheet if you want your child to go into human growth and development and she, I was the only kid that sat out in the hall, like everybody's in there watching a video and I'm just like, I don't know what's happening, but so from that, from fourth grade on I went into homeschool and she was my educator and it was my brother and I, who was a year older than me.
And it was a little bit of a hit and miss because again, back in the late eighties, early nineties, homeschooling was not very popular and it was very, very expensive. I, we were very, very poor how that was going to
Tim Caldwell: people don't quite understand it. It's the beginning of homeschooling was really rocky and nobody could, they just made people jump through the hoops because they were kind of formulating that as they were making up the rules, right?
Liz Herl: Absolutely.
Tim Caldwell: They just, man, they almost tortured people to make them get through.
Liz Herl: Well, and just how do you, the credits that you would receive in public school. How do you ensure that that's being taught in [00:04:00] homeschooling? And then that was created, the curriculum of homeschooling wasn't created. It was just kind of a free fall.
So, I went into sometimes a variety of different Christian schools at times when they, when they were available, but those were very, very costly. So those were very hit and miss as well. And so, I never got a full on like public school experience. It's been really interesting watching all of my children go through it.
My son, who's just about to be 19. And my daughter, who's just about to be 16.
Tim Caldwell: Which by the way, his was a horrible experience. Yes. Yes. It ended his. Public school, um, exposure, right?
Liz Herl: He asked for early graduation because of the poor environment, which there was a mama bear in full form there. But traumatic truthfully, no, it was very traumatic and it's interesting seeing how.
The education system works because I remember when I was 13, I went over to a friend's house and she wanted to show me her high [00:05:00] school and I thought that was the coolest thing in the world because I had not been in high school. And we went over there and she showed me her locker and these halls, it was like all foreign to me.
I was just like, this is really cool. But it was never what I have heard from my children. It seemed a little bit, I don't know, more organized or cleaner back then. And I went, I'm trying to think when was that?
Tim Caldwell: 1920s,
Liz Herl: ha ha aha ha, easy there, grandpa. No, it was the early nineties, all the nineties and I had great hair.
But anyhow, it was very interesting to, and actually quite painful as a, as a mother to watch my children have to suffer in different ways in the education system that they've been had to endure. I didn't have a, is this how it is? Like I've asked my husband, like, is this how your experience was? He was like, absolutely not.
I'm like, cause I don't know. It's just terrible is really what it was. There's been some good things, so I'm not trying to sound very daunting, but oh, and I always said that [00:06:00] before. So be aware it's all good. I did finish my education. Oh, I didn't get it from the education vending machine.
Tim Caldwell: That's right.
That's right. Yeah. You went on to, you went on despite, right?
Liz Herl: Oh, it was very challenging.
Tim Caldwell: Statistically, these are the people, this is a girl that failed at the cracks, but you didn't. Oh no. I mean, it was above all that.
Liz Herl: It was just, I, I come with a fighter mentality.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. Right.
Liz Herl: I am that person that says, you probably won't be able to do this.
And I'm just like, Oh, now you've done it. Yeah. Right. Now you've done it. Now watch me do it. So, and I just kept leveling up and leveling up and that's probably why I'm
Tim Caldwell: The tragic thing about this story you're telling about The homeschooling one is not, not tragic. I know lots of people who went to college, went to multiple colleges with people who are homeschooled to originally get their, their, their education was far and above. I think everybody would claim, well, you don't have the social skills. You don't have this up. And I don't think that's true. [00:07:00] I know lots of goobers that are in public school. So, I think the tragedy that people would see and identify before was. Well, the social aspect, you know, you're going to have people picking on each other and you're going to, yeah, that's life.
That's like, now the new thread is, what are we getting from our teachers and administration? Right? There's actually a threat from above to not just below from above. And what are these kids being taught? In, in class, right? And your mom, um, saw those things and she acted on it and it took, it takes a strong person to say, Hey, look, I'm pulling you out of this now.
Differences aside, boys are different than girls and
Liz Herl: they are,
Tim Caldwell: they are, I'm sorry. I just, well, are we going to get into gender time?
Liz Herl: No, I'm just saying,
Tim Caldwell: well, here we go.
Liz Herl: Here we go.
Tim Caldwell: Boys are different than girls. I'm the last of seven. I'm the youngest. [00:08:00] I was always small. I was, I've been, I was, thank you, Liz.
Liz. I only weighed maybe 105 pounds as a senior. I was tiny. I was tiny.
Liz Herl: You were tiny too.
Tim Caldwell: Well, the problem with that was when I was a freshman, sophomore, I got hazed a lot. Hmm. And it was physical hazing. Ugh. Now this is where people really get hurt. Well, that all changed, kind of, kind of a bad way, but that's kind of the story of the bully thing, right?
You gotta stand up to him. Well, I'm gonna get past that story and I'll just go on to the fact that I got all the way through school and I couldn't read. Within weeks of me graduating, a counselor, Tom Huffman, pulled me and had some reading things done. And he just realized, man, you can't read.
And yet, I was, I, from my junior year, junior and senior year, I, [00:09:00] I got an associate's degree in building construction and in machining. So I'd go to college in the morning and I finished my school stuff in the afternoon at my high school. So it's not a case that I'm dumb. It's a case that I coped, right?
And I thought the whole world was like that. But when you, when you push comes to shove and they put a paper in front of you and you read it, you're like, It's not that I can't read words, but I, I have no retention. I have no idea what I don't know how to read. Nobody taught me that. Well, I thought the whole world was like that.
Liz Herl: Sure. Absolutely. And those people with those kind of educational errors have that same thought. Oh, everyone sees the world the way I see it. Yeah. Putting on glasses. We've talked about it.
Tim Caldwell: Putting on glasses. You know, when the first time you get your first pair of glasses, so I've worn glasses my whole life.
I keep them here. Mostly I don't wear them on camera because I'm afraid you can't see my eyes and all that stuff. So I'll just take them off. But, and I have handsome eyes anyway. But the idea behind that is [00:10:00] when you get into the real world and you can't do these things, you got a problem. Well, now we're identified, uh, ADD, ADHD.
We have kids taking a plethora of drugs, just a shopping cart full of drugs to do what stimulate Dope them, you know, dope them up. I have no idea. It's
Liz Herl: I have an idea.
Tim Caldwell: It's horrible. It's horrible. Excuse me. But the idea behind that is, I thought I had it bad. Nowadays I think kids just, I think it's really bad.
Liz Herl: Well, when I, I think I shared this story with you before. When my daughter, my daughter who is a sophomore, came home from sixth grade and told me that one of her peers in the class told her teacher to F off and got up and walked out of the classroom. I was just like appalled. Like, first off, it was not even, it wasn't even, you would not have any teeth in your mouth.
If that was just, it was just un,
Tim Caldwell: when you were a kid.
Liz Herl: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, and there was, [00:11:00] there was weight to, if this continues, I'm going to have to call your parent. Yeah. Oh my gosh. It's like, yeah. You know, do I have to send even a note home? It's like, well, I'm going to shred that on the way home because
Tim Caldwell: I'm not going home.
Yeah. I'm not going home. Yeah.
Liz Herl: But there's none of that. There's just I believe a, a intensive area of coddling in beyond. I don't even want to call an understanding. It's just coddling and accepting really inappropriate behavior out of, well, you're having a tough time. Well, newsflash. Who isn't? And no, I understand with children that is different.
Don't get me wrong. There's absolutely. Yeah. But I also have the opportunity to work with a lot of educators and the expectations that come down on them is, it's so unreasonable that they're very hopeless because it's like teachers. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. It's, and I, it is appalling, you know, like there's like a no win and then you have both sides of that coin by [00:12:00] the way.
Tim Caldwell: We've had this discussion so many times. about education. Um, the simple fact is, is, you know, my whole life, I believe that farmers and teachers are probably by far the, they're just unsung heroes, right? Absolutely. They, they give everything they, most teachers give everything they have. They spend their own money to provide materials and stuff like that for kids, especially the little guys.
But they face now the criteria of these administrators that are on this social bandwagon that just cripple them, take, strip them of their actual ability to teach.
Liz Herl: Absolutely.
Tim Caldwell: That's so disheartening and it's not and then you have the other people who are so caught up into this bureaucratic process that It's now like a babysitting Service right you drop you drop your kid off.
I just make sure he doesn't get hurt I don't care how he talks to me. I don't care every break. [00:13:00] I don't care what he does But at the end of the night I punch out and go home. That's not teaching. And the tragic thing is there is that we, you can identify bad teachers now.
Liz Herl: Absolutely. There's good and bad in everything.
Tim Caldwell: And you can't get them out of the system. Unions, which are rough, right, when I say rough, unions are a hard thing to break. And they had their place, but I have my own opinions of unions and the teachers unions are very powerful and we see these, it's just this decline in education and just this, just a never ending story of upheaval in schools.
Breaks your heart. And now, and then we went through COVID 20, 22, or yeah, 20 through 20 years, 20 through 22, my heart goes out to those kids. They're like lost years in time. And now we [00:14:00] have kids who can't cope. They really don't. It's not just. The pressures of school. They can't cope with anything.
Liz Herl: Well, any type of negativity is a struggle.
And, you know, I was a parent that went through my youngest was a first grader and it was so, I've shared that with you. It's so ridiculous. I felt Incredibly bad for her teacher. She had all these little kids on zoom and trying to go over a lesson plan. And I was of the benefit that I had managed my schedule that Myself or my husband would be able to sit next to her and try and keep her on task. Yeah. Because you know what we realized that it's really, really hard for six year olds to stay on task on a device and all the attention. And and it was just Mad show for 20 minutes of this lesson. And I just felt like so [00:15:00] terrible for her.
And understandably there were children there that didn't have anyone guiding them back on task. And so there's a couple of things going on there. And that is, I, I feel for it significantly for the children, for the teachers. I also, when you talk about coping, I also feel for the parents of there is a financial hardship for many people during that time of like, everyone's jobs got shut down and just a, a real mental health impairment across the, you know, the nation.
Tim Caldwell: Well, the, the genius of shutting down the schools now meant that people can't go to work because I, I can't afford daycare. I have to work to make money to afford daycare.
Liz Herl: If my job was still
Tim Caldwell: my son's home, I gotta be home. Right. That was another travesty to, to all society. It had the whole COVID thing was horrible, but that's another topic. The, the, the downs, the downfall too. The educational process in the zoom is I'm a boomer. [00:16:00]
Liz Herl: Oh, I'm aware.
Tim Caldwell: Whatever. And as a result, technology like that didn't exist when I was a kid and the boomers, gen, gen Xs, the gen Xs are amazing because they, they, they came up with the advent of, you know, they could do it all.
But now we have people who have,
Liz Herl: when the round tire came out too.
Tim Caldwell: Oh yes. Yes. Right around, right around fire around about the time of fire.
Liz Herl: I was checking. Sure.
Beaten women over the head and dragged them.
Tim Caldwell: We hit dinosaurs with a car all the time. buT the problem with the problem with what was happening now was we have, we have such a, we have such a division in the, not only the coping abilities, but the willingness to do this, because I've made this claim in the past that we see now the fruits of the me generation where my little darling can be anything. And then we became the helicopter prop parents, and then we [00:17:00] became the participation trophies. And then, and then now we're the, we're the we're experimenting with our genders and our gender ideologies and acceptance and forced acceptance.
That's right. And now people now that's. That hasn't crept into our education. It's almost started there.
Liz Herl: Well, and I think that is, you know, I was going to say what is one of the questions I have here in my outline is is the state of our educational system? That's, and who's running the show? Well, who's making all the moves? And I, and that was something else is in the time that I have had all of my children going through the educational system, it's been the public.
Educational system, which is now there is, by the way, I mean, small segue for a second, a massive shift in homeschooling and private schooling. It is like, this is, I'm not sending my kids to charters, magnets and homeschooling are off the charts. [00:18:00] Understandably. Understandably. And because of what is coming out and what is being, what is being educated to our children.
Tim Caldwell: What's being pushed in public schools is not going to be tolerated in these private high schools, private, private schools. Many or most are Christian based, not all, but they do have strong moral and ethical standards. Excuse me. I'm having a weird kind of a tickle, there is a, you're going to sign documentation now that your parents are going to have you go there, but you're going to sign documentation It clearly states that you're here of your own your own volition. You're paying to be here and this is a contract if you don't live up to it, you're gone.
Mm hmm, and they don't mess around but I will tell you When you're in those schools, I know for a fact, you get good education. It's structured. And do I think it's necessary to wear uniforms? No. But do [00:19:00] I think it's do I think it's beneficial in the social aspect of young people as they grow up to realize that you're really no more important than the guy next to you?
Yes. Because I'm a military guy. And uniformity is what teaches us that we're all the same and that we can all, we can all rise. We're going to have weaknesses and strengths and we can all rise or we can all fall, but we do this together. And I happen to ascribe to uniforms, but are they necessary? No, that's another, that's another discussion.
Well, when kids can come to school and absolutely anything, I mean, I sat a school board for seven years. I only left the school board after my son. When my last son graduated high school, quite frankly, the message that was coming down from the higher ups at the state level was not good, it's not productive, it's not beneficial to students at all.
It all has to do with the business of education. The business of education. Money. [00:20:00] Money. Yeah. And what those little, what we have to do for our little darling so that we can get every single dime we can from state and federal. And the message was, no child will be left behind. Remember when George Bush was in office, there was no child left behind.
Well, at this point it's zero children, right? The edict came down, literally every child will be advanced. You just read two weeks ago that Oregon, Oregon, Oregon, Oregon, I think it's Oregon. No longer requires, you don't need it. Reading, writing, or arithmetic to graduate. Now, wrap your head around that.
Liz Herl: I can't.
Tim Caldwell: For the history of public education, or education for others, it's always been about reading, writing, and arithmetic. And yet, those three Are not even required to graduate, which quite, quite simply means your kids are only going to [00:21:00] be used as tax benefits to the state, right? Because you, you attend that school and we don't, we don't care.
It's not important how smart or dumb they are. We'll keep lowering that bar until it's buried in the ground, which they do.
Liz Herl: Well, I think there is I don't think, I know there is statistical data out there that they're literally trying to reduce intellect in individuals in making sound decisions of being leaders.
They're in. How do I say this? They are investing in the youth that they want to see become their leaders and
Tim Caldwell: you mean the Greta's the Greta Thunberg's.
Liz Herl: I'm not saying exactly.
Tim Caldwell: Well, Here's something which I believe is factual evidence is that you and I both know Jordan Peterson did a study on the history of education and most of these models were all started in the depression, uh, in the, in the areas of Prussia.
The idea behind sending kids [00:22:00] to go to school, and that they all sat in rows, and that they all wore the same clothes, and that they all ate meals when the bell rang, and that they all had to be at a special time and a special desk, and they're not building minds, they're building workers. Well, even that has gone out the window, because now you can be anything you want, you can show up when you want, you can cuss out the teacher and leave when you want.
Now that's, I'm not even exaggerating.
Liz Herl: No, I wish you were.
Tim Caldwell: You can, you can literally cuss out your teacher and tell them, or tell them I'm just too stressed. I'm, at, at the school I was affiliated with, you could come in and report. Every, every class, you got a chance to, you had the opportunity to report what color you were.
Liz Herl: What?
Tim Caldwell: Green, yellow, or red. Green, yellow, no, green, orange, or red. Green is like a mood.
Green is you're good to go.
Liz Herl: Okay, it is a mood.
Tim Caldwell: Orange is, orange is I am on the cusp and I need a little time to simmer down. Which you get. Separate of the class. Okay. Fifteen, whatever. Then you come back in. How are you? [00:23:00] I guess I'm green.
Then go. If not, you get, you get to decompress until you can go to class. Now, how many people do you think might take advantage of that?
Liz Herl: Oh, well, children and their adolescent mind, I'm sure none of them would do that.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: Because they're not looking at I don't know. Getting all their wants and needs made and the fact that they challenge the hierarchy of who's in charge.
I'm going to consistently be the person in charge. So no, I'm going to completely conform and do all the things. Yeah. It's unrealistic and it's interesting. Like who's coming up with these ideas? Well, are you, are they saying psychologists? Are they saying clinicians? Are they saying that?
Tim Caldwell: But, you know, that's the tragic thing is that psychologists are running this ragtag circus on feelings for kids.
And affirming their gender and affirming all these decisions they [00:24:00] are going to make, they could alter their lives forever, right? Absolutely. Because we have to affirm, no, no we don't, they're children. Now, we've had this discussion. When kids get out of 6th grade, 5th or 6th grade, stop calling them kids.
When they get into high school, There are young adults and they will be young adults until they will be young adults or teenagers until they graduate from school when they graduate from school, officially they're an adult in my, but every time we, I go to these board meetings or hear people speak about my kid, this, my kid, that.
You know why your kid acts like a kid? Because that's all you call him as a kid.
Liz Herl: Now, and I agree, and I can, I mean, I, I, when I say I agree, I can understand where you're coming from there. Now, as a mother, Mm hmm. Don't mm hmm me that way. Mm
hmm.
Tim Caldwell: Go ahead.
Liz Herl: Watch it.
I always, I have, I'm a bit of a mama bear, I've told you that.
Tim Caldwell: [00:25:00] Sure.
Liz Herl: And within that I always say that they're my babies, I always have my babies. But I've really taken, you know, as understanding of being that my baby boy is a young man and he's not a baby boy and he would not like it if I ever called him. Right. But there is this, a nurturing aspect of when I think of my children, a mother thinks of.
I mean, I, I look at all of my children and to me, I can see them as infants. And then to see this young man that is in front of me, that is my son, that is, I, I, I'm always stunned a little bit, like how quickly that went, that happened. And there's a transitional piece that I work with parents on when you transition from your child, from being from adolescence to young adult, to an adult child.
And that's sometimes really hard. And if you don't have any I would say awareness around how impairing it would be to, to [00:26:00] give them the idea that you're still making their decisions for them and you're going to support whatever decision that they're making. And that's another part of when I go back, I'm circling back to education.
Well, oh, now it's when I'll go ahead and call my mom, go ahead and call my dad. Go and call them. And then the educator, the teacher, the whomever is the one that is in trouble for, well, what did you do? Or what did you say to them? Versus, oh my goodness. It's, it was, it's not just like Sunday church lesson, like that pops in my mind.
It was. You know growing up. Yes, ma'am. Yes, sir. Thank you. Please may I may I be excused from the table like all these mannerisms? Yeah are apparently not existent.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah So you're saying there's an extension of that helicopter parent where they have my back no matter what right right because I'm their little darling But the premise I try to promote in that but if nothing more between The mother and the father is the [00:27:00] absence of the father And we know through Broken Families that mothers raise babies into boys, but fathers raise boys into men.
And in the absence of good men, you see the absence of good young men, right? I won't tell you the story of my young men because it's biased, but I will tell you of all of the people that my sons graduated with, they stuck out because they didn't have young men there. They all came from broken families.
They all came from single parents. They all came from. And,
Liz Herl: which is unfortunate.
Tim Caldwell: It is unfortunate. But you'd think that, you'd think that at least the message for manners, respect, would be continued at least in the school. My, my sons were not allowed. I hear all the time.
These young people [00:28:00] calling their teachers by their first name, that would not fly. It is Mr. This, it is Mr., Mrs. That. I've been, I've had young men, young people who went to school with my sons come up and go, call me by my first name, and I go, you can call me Mr. Caldwell, you can call me Dr. Caldwell, you can call me Caldwell, but don't call me by my first name.
Liz Herl: I feel so honored.
Tim Caldwell: Well, my whole point is I was raised that that's absolutely nothing more than respect. That's right. It is. And in the military tradition. My father had taught me, if you were one minute older than me, you're going to earn my respect, if I don't know you, if I think you're one minute older than me, other than that, we're either equals or it's going to be Mr.
Sorry. in light of knowing the truth, it'll always be Mr. Anyway, my father to me is still Mr. Caldwell or, or command sergeant major CaCaldwellwhatever, whatever I wanted to. It's still, it's just ingrained in me, but we don't have that today. What we have now [00:29:00] is, what we have now is status, right?
Everybody needs to have some kind of status.
Liz Herl: The ever so being liked and all that which is another, I don't want to rabbit hole down that, but I want to go to a question too that I would like to discuss around your thoughts of, do you believe that educators have a responsibility in raising our children?
Tim Caldwell: Yes, you do. I do. Well, I think anybody who's in the orbit of young people has a responsibility to be a contributor to that young person. That's how life should exist. Okay. Right. Right. Yeah. Now there will be people who just claim when my little darling is being a bit of a Dickens that teacher's not going to tell me what to do.
Right? Mm hmm. My, my son is, my son or daughter is special. My son or daughter doesn't need this. My son or daughter My F [00:30:00] U whatever, I don't know, I don't know what the excuses would be, but yeah, almost any, I, I come from a generation where almost anybody who's older than you, who orbits in your world has the ability to have some influence in that.
And I, Yeah. I have been popped in the back of the head by people. I don't know. Hey kid, knock it off. I mean, I'm acting up or I'm being, I'm being this whole, and my dad will look you straight in the eye and he goes, you ever see that kid act up? You can smack him around. We don't come from, we still come from loving parents.
This isn't from a world of, you know, when we described this to young people, it was like, oh, the people used to beat you. No, they didn't.
Liz Herl: Actually not. I told you my, my story to that is that. I always got intimidated by my mom's like, do you want me to, you need to go get a switch. And I'm like, so I have to get the object that's going to.
And it was just so much of the idea destroyed me the most. And I told you this is that whenever she would have a [00:31:00] conversation with me and she's like, you know, that really disappointed me that you would, I'm like, just get the switch because I'd rather have that. Because of the respect I had for her, I did not want that.
And that's yet another thing that If a child in that, that just segues into something else there when we talk about what educators up against when a child doesn't respect their parents and is sitting in a parent teacher conference, you know, saying their moms right there. And they're like, I don't even have to listen this stupid bitch and blah, blah, blah, blah.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. Yeah.
Liz Herl: And so the. That's giving a teacher right there. Well, if you don't even have that's mild, I know I was trying to be, I know PG 13. Oh yeah, I know. And that gives, well, what, what are, what's my chance of getting this child motivated to be even zero structured or listening to any of the lesson plan when, and I feel because the teachers say, you know, there's defeat in that parent's face.
Like I don't know what to do. I think this, again, I don't. I [00:32:00] don't want to get off track too much, but I think this has come from what is structured discipline and then what was physical and mental and emotional abuse. And those are two different.
Tim Caldwell: Oh yeah, no, no question. No. The one thing I, the one thing about school is the structure of sports and I'd seen, I'd see, I see, I see brilliance in kids all the time.
For instance I was not, I was not a good student. I was a D student. I never failed a test, but despite all of my shortcomings, I paid attention. I got, I got failing. Now, my dad didn't shrug his, you know, didn't shrug his shoulders and go, well, he's, he's just a dull pencil in my kit. You know, he never did that.
My dad, my dad knew that I had other skills, and those are the things that they fostered. So that's. That's the mechanical side. That's, that's how it used to be, you know, when you were, [00:33:00] if you were 12 or 13, you'd work on the farm. Mm hmm. You'd learn all these mechanical things.
Liz Herl: Absolutely.
Tim Caldwell: And you'd go to school if you could.
Mm hmm. At the age 18, you're just timed out. Now we have kids who have no talent and no skills. Right? So, they, what's lacking in that, what's lacking in that is their opportunity to play sports, then, and they may, they may tie themselves to this balloon that thinks I'm going to, sports are going to carry me through the thing.
That's where a coach is, coaches, especially male coaches, have the opportunity to turn these young men around. And some do, some don't. If you think that you're going to, if you think that everybody's going to be the star athlete, they're not, you need to tell them that. And losing is far more educational than winning.
And every time you have people quit the team because we're a losing team. We don't want you. That should be the message. We don't want you. We want people who, I'm a part of something bigger than me. That's where, that's where I want to segue into going [00:34:00] into the military. All of my family, all, all my male members of my family have been military, or a long history of it.
There, nobody pushed for that. Nobody said you would. Right, but there's no requirement. The interesting thing is, is that there's a, there's a patriotic side of, Of that desire to go in the military because I'm going to get a chance to protect something that's mine. I was given, I was born in this country and I take stock in the fact that when I pledge allegiance, which people don't even know what that is anymore, or recite the constitution or anything that has a governmental, that, that stuff wasn't given to me.
Somebody fought for that and, and I get to do that too. And of the 1 percent of all the Americans that live. Those people who join the military, they grow up, they get to see the world, they get to see, they get to be a bigger part of something other than them, a team, a real team. And guess what, you don't get to quit.
You get, [00:35:00] they're going to keep you on there, they're going to teach you a job, you're going to grow up and become a man. I think that's a wonderful thing. Absolutely. Opposite side of that, is I don't care how smart you are, not all kids need to go to college. They just don't.
Liz Herl: I'm not opposing that.
Tim Caldwell: No. My dad would tell you, and this would be kinda harsh in today's day and age, but the world needs ditch diggers.
And I'm telling you,
Liz Herl: Why is that harsh? I think that that is, is so, it's so unnecessary that that be the feedback that the doctor, doctor's, lawyers, higher level educated individuals, I should put it that way, the electricians, we need plumbers, we need, you know, we need the construction work. I mean, that your your,
Your importance is not, we've even said this about ourselves, like all [00:36:00] the names and the letters behind your name, that doesn't give me my value of who I am. You know, my actions, my character, my personality, the way I engage, the way I treat people, that is going to give you an indication of who I am.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah, absolutely.
Liz Herl: And, but I don't, I think that it's like, well, if I can, And this comes from some parents. Well, if I can say my child said that they're going to law school, which is great for, for individuals, we need lawyers. Right. But also, yeah, they're, you know, they're in a Votech school doing electrician or yeah how to be a welder and there's same level of pride, you know,
Tim Caldwell: well, my point to all of that is, you know, to coin a very popular thing right now is this elitist view that.
What I do is better than you. I'm telling you, I know the strongest, smartest, most brilliant guys, people you want to, if hell, if hell ever came to earth, you'd want to have them by the sides, they were coveralls, they could draw a picture in the dirt and build this. [00:37:00] Amazingly accurate thing out of things that they make with their hands versus these guys who sit at computers and do CAD drawings and all that.
But here's my question. What happens when the power goes out? And the, and this is, this is this thing where they look down on your trade versus this trade, versus this trade, this whole, this whole status thing that they do, my sons were always taught, learn how to fix things. I don't care what it is, don't care how you do it, but as long as they keep making things and we forget how to fix things and they become so complicated.
You need to learn how to fix things. You will never be without work. You will never be in a position where somebody doesn't need you. People need absolutely air conditioning. They need. They do. They need everything. They need plumbing. They need, are those dirty jobs? You bet they are. And they pay great.
Liz Herl: Well, oh, was it that reel I sent you that a gentleman in a drain sewer?
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. Covered in cockroaches. Yeah. Sucking out of sewage.
Liz Herl: Yeah. I was like,
Tim Caldwell: Oh, where are the [00:38:00] women?
Liz Herl: I'm not there.
Tim Caldwell: Where are the women? Well, that's, that's my point, right?
Liz Herl: I will, I will be the first that that is exactly a man's job.
Tim Caldwell: And that's, that's where we spin off from, that's where we spin off from, that's where we spin off from the educational thing into this sexism thing that girls have to do this and boys have to do this, this egalitarian thing that they've seen in the, they've seen in the Icelandic countries that. That doesn't work.
You can say, I want them to be 50 percent engineers and 50 percent nurses and 50%. It doesn't work. People do what they want to do, what they're called to. Men are, men are more drawn towards thing space and structure and things. And women are more drawn towards social, social events, social, social, whatever.
But people, that's why there are more women in teaching and more women in nursing and more women in women in social social skills like social social work. Yep. Nurtures. But to get back to, to get back to the educational thing, I [00:39:00] just don't think everybody needs to go to college. Now, where do we stop?
I mean, how do we? How do you put the brakes on this?
Liz Herl: I don't know if it's about putting the brakes on that it as much as it is it's an awareness and, and a conversation. I shared this with all my, with both of my older children, not my youngest right now, but she's heard the same thing. And that is I don't care what you do, just do something you enjoy to have the ability to make a living, do something you love.
And I, it's really interesting this, and I've shared this with you before too. And that is the idea that when individuals come out of high school, that they're downloaded with all this information of like what they're going to do with the rest of their life at 18. And that's ridiculous because that does not happen unless it's been,
Tim Caldwell: it doesn't happen in college either.
Liz Herl: Right. No, it does. And well, do we want to talk about how many people that have college degrees that don't use them?
Tim Caldwell: Absolutely.
Liz Herl: I mean, they're so huge. It's massive. It's [00:40:00] massive. Yeah. And I,
Tim Caldwell: I think, I think I've stated this before you, I think. It was almost seven out of 10 for people who came out of chiropractic colleges and I don't remember the year.
They don't, they're not practicing seven, 70 percent of the people who graduated. They're not in the field that they just spent a hundred thousand dollars in.
Liz Herl: Right. That's, that's insanity. So, but I want to go back to something that you've shared, you shared when you, when people kind of went around the room to say like, what made you decide to become a chiropractor?
And you said, well, my dad was one, not you. That a peer would say that it was my grandpa was a chiropractor. Right. So finding self passion in something you're doing. I've told my oldest son this that my journey has always continued to be evolving. When I first went in, I have like, 12 hours of credits.
Cause I told you, I went in, everyone's like, well, you have to go to school and you have to do something. And I'm like, okay, so I'll go to school and do something. Yeah. I'll be an educator. Funny enough. We're talking about education.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: And I got [00:41:00] in and I did an intro to teaching course and I'd had to do some observation in the classroom.
And I was like, absolutely not. I was like, this is not for me. This is not my forte. So I was like I immediately was like, after having that class, what it taught me, thankfully, that I didn't get too far down the line. And I'm like, this is not for me.
Tim Caldwell: Hey, I, my doctorate degree allows me to do substitute teaching and teaching.
It doesn't, that's just certificate. That's kind of, kind of carte blanche to do wherever you go. Well, I went back to Manitou. Where I graduated high school, and I did substitute teaching. Sucked.
I like the little guys. I think the little guys are the ones that are most impressionable, and there's still a chance to save them.
But man, the high schoolers were just monsters. There was no, you had no legacy there. You had no clout. They don't care who you are. They don't. And you're a substitute teacher. You're the bottom of the barrel. Yeah.
Liz Herl: So how I got to where I found my way was jobs. [00:42:00] I was kind of, I was in the middle of finishing up the semester cause I was already doing what I was gonna, but I wasn't.
The courses of, and I'm like, I don't want to do this. And it was kind of like, well, what are you going to do? And then it's like, well, what are you going to do? You got to do something. And I this was before my mother passed away. And I remember telling her, I'm like, I don't want to be a teacher. She was like, well, don't be a teacher.
What do you want to do? And I'm like, I don't know. And she's like, well, you have all the time to figure it out. And I ended up working going to work as an administrative assistant at a social service agency. And that's, I mean, my brain exploded. Yeah. It was like, this is my, this is my jam. Yeah. Yeah. This is my, these are my people.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. Yeah.
Liz Herl: And so then I did that, I changed over to psychology. Mm-Hmm. , and went into people's homes and worked in the juvenile field for a variety of different, I mean, so when I, I'm saying all this to, to share that the evolving of my, myself and my education, [00:43:00] if I just went with the feedback of what I was supposed to do I may have gotten an education that I would have never wanted to use been stuck in.
And what was great is once I completed my undergrad, I had that under me. So then I could go right into grad school, right. And, and then continue to move forward. That's a benefit. A lot of people get out of school, they start getting into the degrees and sometimes they have degrees that are kind of, and I don't mean are very I don't want to call them useless because that's not very kind, but they're not very well known or what is, what is some of, I'm trying to think of some of the degrees.
Tim Caldwell: Gender studies.
Liz Herl: Oh, yeah. Well, you mean general studies?
Tim Caldwell: Gender.
Liz Herl: Gender?
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. There's actual gender studies.
Liz Herl: I thought there was general studies. Well. There's both. There is. There's both. But, yeah.
Tim Caldwell: You're not wrong.
Liz Herl: But it's kind of hard to market that, that education to some avenues, right? And so I know several people that I know that work at [00:44:00] great jobs, they're nine to five jobs, not anything to do with their education.
Tim Caldwell: Absolutely.
Liz Herl: But.
Tim Caldwell: You know how many females, I, I, I can't tell you how many females I know of college years that wanted to be a marine biologist, wanted to be a marine biologist. I don't.
Liz Herl: In Kansas?
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
So when you get out and you have a degree in marine biology, what are you going to do?
Oh, I manage a sandwich shop over here. Okay. That's great. But my point, okay, here's, here's the thing though. So education in itself, I have a lot of education. In the education. It's never been a waste to me, but what I want people to understand about, especially higher education, you should learn along the way how to learn.
So, after I got, you know, after I had a couple of bachelor's degrees and I was going to go on and finish my doctorate degree, which I did, Hey I looked into getting a master's degree and I started looking at the [00:45:00] coursework and the coursework's. It was, at some point you should be able to go, look, haven't you learned how to learn yet?
Pick up your phone. I can ask this thing, anything haven't you learned how to learn? Have do you, the, my, the sad fact is that people don't know how to use it. They don't even know what a Dewey decibel system is.
Liz Herl: I was going to say,
Tim Caldwell: but that was my time.
Liz Herl: I listen, my time. Why don't you just pipe down? I can go into a library and get a library book.
Tim Caldwell: Well, okay. Good for you. Anyway people have no idea what it's like to do real research. Go in and look for real things and try to find real articles and that's not, that takes time. Well, now that stuff's at your fingertips.
Liz Herl: Get the thingy that did the thingy.
Tim Caldwell: And you can do the thingy. You have search engines.
Hey, find me all the paperworks. And now we have AI.
Liz Herl: I was going to say AI is a whole other,
Tim Caldwell: which we're going to talk about.
Liz Herl: Yeah. That's going to be another upcoming episode, but which is [00:46:00] its own monster.
Tim Caldwell: But the point I wanted to make is that at no point in my life was education a waste.
Liz Herl: Absolutely not.
Tim Caldwell: Do I use all of this stuff? No, it is enlightening. And that stuff will stay with you. If you continue to exercise those memories and learn how to learn how to learn and learn how to foster and pull from those things you drew from. But I would, you know, there are people I didn't even start med school till I was 33.
That's my point with anyone is I don't care how old you are. You, I graduated with a woman who was 70. That's amazing. She was 71. Good for her. And I,
Liz Herl: you know, when there's a lot of times where I've talked to people in their 50s, I haven't figured out when I do what I do when I grow up. Yeah. When I grow up, I'm like, okay.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah, my point and the message I give my sons and this has, this is surrounded by the education that they have is you want to be an astronaut? Good. You want to be a surgeon? Good. You want to be a famous painter? Great. Do all of [00:47:00] those things. Be a famous artistic surgeon astronaut. I don't care who's gonna, who's gonna care.
It's just another talent that you carried on and you can learn how to do that or you can do it on your own. It doesn't really matter.
Liz Herl: Well, and I think that one of the things that I appreciate everything you're saying there, but there is a substantial concern of the racket around the financial cost of this education.
Tim Caldwell: Oh, yeah,
Liz Herl: It is a racket. Yeah, and it's ridiculous. It is really and so that really impairs people to to further their education. It is because of that. Yeah. So on both sides of saying, you don't have to go and do this. We should also have the ability. To have individuals go and learn and
Tim Caldwell: here's an example.
My son has gone all the way through it. We'll now be entering into his master's program and he only racked up three thousand dollars. How he, he worked before. He paid for everything in cash. He worked during and he made good [00:48:00] money following the skills he had learned before he carried that over. And he did that part time,
Liz Herl: Which is it okay to say that your son is an educator?
Tim Caldwell: Yeah, he became an educator. Yeah,
Liz Herl: That's phenomenal.
Tim Caldwell: He's now actually an educator. The funny thing is, is that he portrays these stories back to me about, man, this is hard. And what's so hard about it, son? I won't say. Okay. I'll just say, these kids are really, really, really Unskilled. Yeah. Sure. They have, they have been pushed through this thing.
Liz Herl: The system.
Tim Caldwell: They have been squeezed out of this thing and they're now paying to be in this education and they are not ready. They can't do it. And my son, my son has taken it upon himself to tell him, my son, Maxwell will tell you. He's very proud about the fact that he has the opportunity to perhaps affect these young people and change their lives.
Liz Herl: Good for him.
Tim Caldwell: [00:49:00] Make that turn. Good for you. That's a real educator.
Liz Herl: That's right. Yeah.
Tim Caldwell: I'm, I'm very proud of it.
Liz Herl: You should be.
Tim Caldwell: And for the one thing I think is most notable about my son, Maxwell, is that before he Before he even graduated his bachelors in a part time job, he made 97, 000 a year busting his ass working in a tire shop.
Liz Herl: I wonder where he got that work ethic from.
Tim Caldwell: Hmm. But the whole point is, now he's making this, he's making the pay of a teacher. And he feels it, believe me, he feels it. It's about a third, right?
Liz Herl: Yeah. But you know, I love when I hear that you talk about his driven component of the compassion that is within his character of saying, so the amount may be low, but the impact is very high.
Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's what we need.
Tim Caldwell: That's what we should all be striving for. [00:50:00] The, we went back to, we mentioned once before that college doesn't prepare you for the real world. Oh no. When you were in school, you're going to go out there and you're going to be great this and great that, but you know what?
And they push you out that door. Anybody tell you how to lease a space? Anybody how to tell you how to negotiate a contract for a lease? Anybody tell you how to, this is how I put an advertising campaign together. This is how I,
Liz Herl: how to do a podcast.
Tim Caldwell: No one. You gotta do, this all comes out of our pockets, right?
Yeah, this is hard. It's very hard. Very hard. I remember when I was in chiropractic college, towards the end of my, in my clinicals, I would listen to these, these doctors come in and they would just rave about seeing 500 patients a, a day. Do the math. It's impossible. There's no way you're at, there's no way you're giving anybody.
Good care in seconds because that's all you have to spend on somebody seconds. That's that's [00:51:00] travesty. But you know what? Nobody taught. Nobody prepares you for this is how you locate us. This is how you locate. A good place to practice. This is how you research, you know, what kind of disposable incomes you're living in.
This is how you research, you know, how you're going to set your fees or structure your fees. This is how you set up your, nobody teaches you that you got to go and do it. Yeah. And then, I don't know, just copy what another guy does or solicit the help of a professional who will come in and go, I've set up lots of things and I'll show you how to do this one.
Okay, great. But you pay for that. Right. And it ain't yours. The idea ain't yours. You're, you're learning how to do it by somebody else's thing. You should, it should be as organic as you know how to do this already. And I had already owned businesses so I already knew the gist of all that stuff, so. But.
Back to education is that education doesn't have to happen in a classroom, it happens all around us.
Liz Herl: I was going to say, it [00:52:00] should happen every single day. And unfortunately, the poor side of education is and this is What you receive from the social media aspects of belief systems. And there is this idea that when I see an action and a behavior, especially in adolescence, Oh, well, this seems acceptable here.
This seems like this is okay. So I'm going to try that, right? I'm going to go and I'm going to act this way or I'm going to. Yeah. Now again, I've had that very same thing in my own home with my, my youngest where she has come home with some unique behaviors and I'm like, Hey, what is going on? Says like, what?
Yeah. And then there's a little bit of an attitude and I'm like, oh no, oh no, no, no, no. See, I do not have it. And once I. Reacclimate her to her environment and help her understand you are home and whatever you learned [00:53:00] was not acceptable. It's, it's a little bit of a disconnect there because of course there's, you know, the initial defiance and hurt feelings.
And then I'm like, let's have a conversation about this. Like what? Like. Does that feel good to act that way? And she's like, well, no, but I saw so and so do this and I'm like, yeah, but they may do that. You don't. Yeah. And but again, I'm, I'm a very obvious occupational hazard as a therapist, but interactive parent.
When I see something, I say something to my kids. I have lots of great conversations with them and I hear them out. I think that's important. Yeah. But I also give them structured. Feedback that may not feel so warm and fuzzy. I think that's missing too because when they go to an environment, some of the kids that are going into the schools and you know, there is, I'm thinking we had a nine or 10 different teachers at one [00:54:00] time for one of my, in I think his senior year for my son or something like that.
And just imagine, you know, that. Any adolescent brain and it's maturing, but it's still an adolescent brain having to deal with nine different personalities, different teaching styles different ways of communication. So it was hard with tab that, you know, it's really great because in this one class he's really cool, but this class is kind of a turd, you know, well that's life, right?
Well, at the same time, I also on the other side, to be fair on the other side of the coin. Now, 2530 students in your class and you have all these different personalities. I don't even how you would even attempt to manage that. That is just beyond me. But my point and all
Tim Caldwell: that's the call for discipline, right?
Liz Herl: That's you literally took over them.
Tim Caldwell: How can I, how can a teacher possibly do that? If the children, children, children don't aren't disciplined, they don't [00:55:00] have it at home. They won't have it here. If the children, excuse me, if the Parents allow it, it's carried over into school. Now it's even free reign because they're not around.
I can do what I want. It's sad.
Liz Herl: It's pretty tough.
Tim Caldwell: It is sad.
Liz Herl: It's a pretty tough situation. So, I know we've kind of rambled on here. We have, but. What is, what's the point of this, this discussion? What have we learned here?
Tim Caldwell: Well, what I hope people understand is when we talk about education, everybody has a gist, you know, has their own take in education.
I know brilliant people who didn't graduate school. I know brilliant people who went on to do brilliant things and they, they, they spent, they bailed out of school in the 7th grade, right? Um, but they had something to fall back on. Now we have, well now we have these people who are attaining letter degrees.
They actually have the pretty plaques with the degrees, and they couldn't find their [00:56:00] butt with both hands. And, That's a tough thing to know that we've put out, we've done them this, this, just this disservice that they've been told they have to go to college. They have to do this and they have to. And they really have never been able to even foster the idea of what they're really good at.
Nobody's even asked him what to do. And with the advent of video games, pornography, all of these things that pollute, that pollute our, what we call free time, well, that used to be taken up with work and earning money. Well, now they don't work or earn money. And these are the kids, you know, there used to be a, used to be a thing, a term called boomerangs where your grown children go and try life, don't do so well, and then they're back in your basement when the, in their mid thirties, early forties, and then they find their way and they move back out.
That's a boomerang. Now we have people with [00:57:00] total failure. Watch. They never leave the basement.
Liz Herl: Correct.
Tim Caldwell: They went to school from the basement. They returned to the basement and they'll live in the basement forever if you let them. That's tragic. No, it is tragic. It's tragic. So, what
Liz Herl: What do you do about it?
Tim Caldwell: Well, get involved, right? Mm hmm. For the little people, you need to get involved with your, with your school board. You have to know what they do and what their, what their policies are. The tragic part is that you need to have a mother and a father. You gotta have a father figure. You gotta have somebody out there to balance out the social aspects that need to be part of society, that toughness to survive. And then
Sorry. I am so sorry. Sorry.
Liz Herl: But you're doing great by the way.
Tim Caldwell: I know, but from the, from a male's point of view, there's just a difference. [00:58:00]
Liz Herl: Yeah.
Tim Caldwell: And there's a discipline that can come about when young people get to mirror what, what males, full grown adults do. Yeah. It's missed. It's missed.
Liz Herl: Yeah. And oh, and yeah.
Well, there is, yeah, not to venture down to another you know, spiral off track, but when you talk about that, I think of when I see you don't have to, you know, the roles of what used to be identifying A boy's role in a girl's role, like, well, you don't, you don't have to do those roles. You can do whatever, which is true.
We don't have to be strong and lift this up and take care of this and do this because you're loved either way. Well, that's true. But there is a self identity, a self worth piece to understanding. I'm building, I'm building a character here, a [00:59:00] positive,
Tim Caldwell: I smell a Jordan Peterson thing coming on here.
Liz Herl: Well, you know, I love Jordan Peterson.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah, as do I.
Liz Herl: And But it's, oh no, it would, you know, you can again back to saying, oh, well, I don't want you to feel like you have to be anything, but we, we literally have to educate our children on what is character, positive characteristics and behaviors and values and morals and belief systems.
I mean, all these things. When it's like, well, we'll just let them believe whatever a child literally doesn't know you want them to believe whatever they're going to believe, whatever they see on social media, whatever they hear from their friend down the street, or, you know, the person that quick trip that they overheard saying something.
I mean, they literally aren't. I, they are complete sponges. It's what they are. And you're just like, well, it's whatever you think it is. It's like, no, it's, it's not whatever you think it is.
Tim Caldwell: Well, now you're getting into what truth, right? [01:00:00] My truth, their truth, some truth.
Liz Herl: It's most like, When it's it's something when I say it's no, it's not that I'm saying something like when I was looking at it a picture of something I'm like, well, that is clearly a panda bear.
And my daughter was being goofy. And she's like, no, that is a brown bear. And I'm like, no, that is clearly a panda bear. And let me and so then I was like, specifically identifying what, but. It's, and I'm, it's silly stuff like that, but it's actually not silly. Cause in the big green scheme of things, it's actually gotten way out of control.
Yeah. But again, I don't want to venture off to that. That will be another time.
Tim Caldwell: Well, I thought you were going to go down the route of the you know, somebody is struggling and they're down in the dumps. And then here comes a, here comes an adult, the parent, maybe, and they put their arm around her. That's all that's okay, honey.
People will love you the way you are. That's a bad message, right? It's okay to tell people,
Liz Herl: do you love me the way you are? Do you?
Tim Caldwell: That's the question you need to ask. If you're so unhappy, why are you so [01:01:00] unhappy? That's the question to ask. And if you don't like who you are, change it. Now that's gotten twisted.
That's gotten really twisted. Okay, I will change it. Well, you can't go jumping out of one body into the next. Take what you have, do the best you can. But nobody's putting, nobody's putting constraints on you what you want to do in your career. Nobody's, nobody. You can do, you can do anything you want to do.
But it takes hard work and nobody's going to give it to you. Nobody falls to the top of the mountain.
Liz Herl: And there you go with that whole hard work.
Tim Caldwell: You know, stupid hard work.
Liz Herl: Can't believe you're going to work at it. Nothing comes easy. Are you saying that I'm going to have to suffer?
Tim Caldwell: You're going to have to suffer.
Everybody. Life is suffering, right? The Buddhist.
Liz Herl: It is so. Okay. I don't want to get on because I'm trying to come to a close, but I could go on and on,
Tim Caldwell: but the takeaway I want people to do is if you can get involved with your, you can get involved with your local, um, state and federal [01:02:00] educational practices, their policies, find out what's going on, attend meetings, go to your, go to your city councils, see what's going on, find out what's going on in your educational society and her systems.
And. Okay. Be a part of it. Have a voice. Make sure you voice it too. At the very least, if enough people will voice this thing. Remember that your school boards are run by the public. The school board is an elected service provided by the public. People are going to like hearing this. They do not work for the school, they work for us.
You go to the school board and you go, and if there's enough people you'll direct them. You'll go to the president and you'll go, we are directing you to this. And you're laying that on the president's head. That's not a suggestion, we're telling you. We have this many signatures, you do this. That's laid squarely, now if a decision is made off of that thing, that president needs to be gone.
Your, [01:03:00] your public runs your school boards. That's, that's where I'm going to go off my soapbox. All right, you may step down for a moment. Thank you very much. You guys take care of yourselves. That's right. Take care of the ones that look after you, too, I mean.
Liz Herl: Absolutely I think we do, you know, We talk about this, uh, rigid exterior that we have to have and structure and discipline.
And we do need to have those things, but within all of that, the compassionate understanding of self. And I will kind of segue into my closing point would be if you don't like where you're at or what you hear or something. You have all the opportunity in the world to do something about it. It will not be easy.
Sure. It will probably be pretty painful. But I think it would probably be pretty worth it.
Tim Caldwell: But did you die?
Liz Herl: Did you die?
Tim Caldwell: No. Everybody, everybody struggles. But you know what? Find [01:04:00] something and realistically go for it and you'll make it. It happens in everything. Education's no different.
Liz Herl: You don't, you find, you don't find something in one way, find it in another.
Tim Caldwell: Look, I never thought I'd be a doctor. My friends thought I'd be a doctor. I never knew it. Why would I think I'd be a doctor?
Liz Herl: It's funny when you say that because I had no idea. Oh, well, that's not true. When I was like six, I thought I was going to be a nurse. And then I saw blood and I was like, absolutely not.
Tim Caldwell: Isn't that red stuff supposed to be inside? Yeah. That's not a matter with you.
Liz Herl: Ah, it was not. Yeah. Like, no, thank you. And I'm not a fan of needles. Not at all.
Tim Caldwell: Two things that you're going to deal with. Yeah. Sorry.
Liz Herl: It's fine. I've dealt with them several times in my life. I just don't have to deal with them professionally.
Tim Caldwell: Now that you're a mom. Yeah.
Liz Herl: Oh, yeah. Well, yeah. That's, that's very true.
Tim Caldwell: Well, thanks, Liz. Good conversation.
Liz Herl: Well, please go to our website and feedback is always something that we enjoy. [01:05:00]
Tim Caldwell: Like, comment, definitely comment, share. Look for our discussions that come up on our, on our Mindmeld forums. Yeah.
Liz Herl: Join us there because this is probably a discussion we will have there at some point.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. No question. Yeah. This is an ongoing thing and what do we do? What do we do? What do we do? Right. Mm hmm. Yeah, we, we, we need to turn this thing around. It's bad.
Liz Herl: So many things need to be turned around. Yeah. Well, thank you if you did listen in or view us. Yep. Whichever. Thank you. Appreciate it. We appreciate it.
Tim Caldwell: I always say, you guys take care of yourself, right.
Liz Herl: And be kind to yourself
Tim Caldwell: and be kind to yourself. Thanks Liz.