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Tyson Popplestone is a Comedian from Melbourne Australia. Join him for a brand new interview each week.
Mishka (02:08.031)
Yo, how are ya?
tyson (02:08.862)
Hey, Mishka. I'm doing well, man. How you going?
Mishka (02:14.335)
Good, I'm good. You just waking up, getting rolling?
tyson (02:17.842)
Yeah, brother, man. Sorry. I was so inflexible. I know you gave me a broad range of times the other day nine to six I was like fuck i'm gonna have to ask him if he can do six because The morning here is uh, i've got a three-year-old and a one-year-old and man. It's an absolute shit show So I thought just uh for the sake of me and you trying to have a chat Uh, and it'd be a bit more likely to get the kids out of the house by 8 a.m My time so uh, my wife just left man. So we got peace and quiet. So I appreciate you. Uh
I appreciate you being so flexible.
Mishka (02:49.183)
It's all good. It's the nine to six thing. That's just my old man hours. Um, of course, today is the only day that I have like a hard out at seven, but, uh,
tyson (02:54.193)
No.
tyson (02:59.006)
Sweet dude, nah, that's fine. I'll keep an eye on the clock as we go, but if it's creeping up and you gotta get out of here, and I haven't noticed, man, just I feel like you're the kind of guy who's not gonna hesitate to go, all right, we're done. Ha ha ha. Dude, should we, it's very conversational. Like I didn't come in here, I mean, like probably a lot of podcasts that you do, I had a bit of an overview or a bit of a scaffold as to what I was interested to talk to you about, but.
Mishka (03:09.407)
No. I'm good at that.
tyson (03:26.674)
If you're happy, man, it was just a bit more of a conversation and a bit more relaxed than, you know, real interview hopefully. Awesome, brother. Man, I just saw on your Instagram that, was it yesterday you returned from three weeks on the road? I saw a nice little writing gift from a couple of your students at your doorstep.
Mishka (03:33.855)
Yeah, yeah, sounds good.
Mishka (03:45.471)
Yeah, the it's I mean, I'm exhausted. I'm ready to like set my car on fire and never drive anywhere ever again. I drove 10 hours down to Georgia and then I was down there for a while. And then 10 hours back here had a day off, flew to Arizona to see my family for three days and then flew to Denver to do a comedy festival and then flew back. And of course, the.
The last night was like a Sunday and then early, you know, early morning flight. The next morning stayed up late with my friends. So I'm just sort of like crab walking through the airport. Like, Oh, I hate everything. I hate everyone. And then finally got back here. And so, yeah, it was super nice to walk in the door to have like a stack of gifts from the, you know, from my writing class at Yale. And then, you know, there was a group of kids I spoke to when I was in, uh, when I was in Georgia, things like that, man, you know,
It does make a huge difference. Sometimes it just reminds me like, oh yeah, I did a good thing. You know, like I forgot about it.
tyson (04:49.866)
Yeah man, yeah yeah. How long do you say you were out on the road for, you were out there for three weeks. What was that, so there's a little mixture of comedy, there was a little mixture of family. Were you on the road specifically for shows and you were just throwing in some family time in amongst it or what was the reason for the travel?
Mishka (05:04.607)
Well, no, I mean, that's the thing is that I don't do one thing. I do all the things. I do everything, anything necessary to stay out of a nine to five job. Like, what do you need done? I'll do it. You know, so when I was down in Georgia, I was visiting a former student who her family lives on this farm that's been in their family for 200 years.
And so I went down there just to hang out and to hunt, which is something I got into last year, which is very unpopular online. And then while I was down there, I spoke to her. I spoke to her book club and I spoke to a couple of classes at the university there and then, you know, bombed back up here. And then I was visiting family and then I was doing, I was performing at the High Plains Comedy Festival in Denver, playing music and telling jokes.
tyson (05:42.409)
Hehehehehehe
Mishka (06:02.335)
And then I did a show in Fort Collins, Colorado. So, wearing a lot of different hats during that, you know?
tyson (06:10.11)
Man, it's so interesting. So my introduction to you originally was years ago now, I listened to the Rich Roll podcast and I had heard the conversation around him. So it's funny that you mentioned that the hunting is such an unpopular thing to post about online. I reckon it's a number of his followers just touching base with you to let you know. I've got a mate who lives in, not a mate, it's my brother-in-law, my wife's brother. Also a mate, lives in Oregon at the moment. He's like an avid hunter.
And I don't know what kind of bear it was, but when he moved over there about eight years ago, got into hunting, man, that whole lifestyle is something that I'd love to tap into a little more. But he got into hunting, got himself a bear, posted a photo of it online, and just messaged me some of the inboxes that he was getting from just the most surprising people. You look through their page, you go, this person looks lovely, and you read the comments that they're saying about the hunting, you go, oh dude, like this is a controversial, it's a controversial industry. What is it?
It's funny, man. I've listened to enough Joe Rogan podcasts to have an appreciation for the, the inspiration behind why people might want to go out and hunt. I haven't done it myself, but in terms of, um, like the people who are hating it, is it, is it the vegans? Is it the animal lovers who are, what's the issue?
Mishka (07:23.071)
The well, I mean, I have to I have to go into this gently saying that I mean, up until a year and a half ago, I hated hunters and hunting. And I thought very, you know, I thought it was like a bunch of drunk assholes in a pickup truck, just like blasting shotguns at everything and anything. And I have a very good friend who. I was like down the well.
You know, I was really fucked up and had been for a long time and like nothing was working, nothing was getting any better. And he was like, I'm going to take you hunting. And I was like, Lou, that's a terrible idea. I love animals. I hate guns. This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. However, I've tried every fucking other thing to try to feel better. So, yeah, why not? I'm at like at my wits end. And then at the end of the day, I think what.
What helped me, what did make me feel better was that I sort of got lured into it. And what it was, it was not the act of taking another animal's life or something like that. I just tried to do something that is really, really hard. And then I didn't give up until I did it. And it had been a long time in my life since I'd had a big win like that. And...
to try and try and try and try and fail and fail and fail and fail and then succeed and not to like, not to get an honorable mention, not to get third place, not to win your age division. But you know, I got a shot, a real buck with a big eight point rack with a crossbow, which is like very difficult. And um, and so then that really, that sort of like,
You know, I mean, our lives, it's like, you know, imagine like a big wooden sailing vessel out at sea, it doesn't turn around immediately. But that was the thing that got it turning, you know, and the so I get why people. You know, I get why people hate hunters, because I did for a long time and I hated hunting for a long time and I had a lot to learn and I had I really had to sort of like open my mind to it. But, you know, some of the appeals that I've gotten from people are like, just don't make sense.
Mishka (09:45.343)
You know that like, oh, how can you bear to shoot a deer when you love your dog? Well, what do you think my dog eats, man? Like my, I love my dog. I love my cat. They would be out killing and eating everything all day long if they could. They're carnivores, you know, um, the, what do you think is in dog food, man? And, you know, and if you're feeding your dog, like vegan dog food, you're an asshole and your dog's unhappy. I'm sorry. That's how it goes. You know, um,
tyson (10:09.802)
Hehehehehehe
Mishka (10:14.079)
But yeah, I mean, I love Rich Dearly. He's a wonderful guy and he's done so much for me. Like my friendship with him has helped me in so many ways. I mean, I was backstage at the show in Fort Collins with a bunch of comics and we were talking about, well, I'm not gonna tell you what we were talking about. We were talking about degenerate shit. And I was like, oh yeah, I was drunk for a long time. And then I became an ultra runner. And,
tyson (10:38.242)
Hahaha
Mishka (10:43.135)
One of the comics was like, Oh, have you heard of this guy rich roll? And I was like, yeah, it's my f*****g homie. Um, and, um, however, there are, there's a stripe of riches fans, you know, that. I don't, I don't hang with, I'm not cool with them. I don't, I don't like, I was looking at his post today. Um, and he, s**t, I'm forgetting the name. I think it was like the surgeon general. Um, and, uh,
tyson (10:46.946)
Yeah
tyson (10:51.107)
Thank you.
Mishka (11:12.543)
you know, a big conversation about public health. I haven't listened to the podcast. I was gonna go to leave a comment to give him shit for his beard because he looks like a fucking lumberjack like I do. I'm looking through the comments and there's all this fucking anti-vax shit and all these chiropractors pretending to be doctors like fucking ripping him up and down for speaking out in favor of the vaccine, in favor of masking up, in favor of lockdown. Shit that has been scientifically proven.
from the beginning to the end, you know, to save lives. And people were just fucking like going to town on him in the comments and just like the most uninformed shit. And there is, there is like a Venn diagram of.
well-intentioned vegans and fucking conspiracy cases, you know? And I think that. Listen, man, life is confusing. There's a lot of bullshit out there. We all have we all have our own damage that informs our decision making. But we have each of us has the individual responsibility of being able to tell the difference between shit and food.
tyson (12:30.095)
Mmm.
Mishka (12:30.335)
and
Don't just parrot shit that you hear once. If you hear something and it sounds believable, search it out. My mom used to, 10 years ago, would share this bullshit on Facebook. I taught her how to go to snopes.com and to like look stuff up and to see if it's true or to see if it's fake. And now she like just owns her brothers and sisters all the time. And I love to see it. Just check the facts, man. Just check your shit.
tyson (12:55.35)
Hahaha!
tyson (13:01.154)
Hmm. It's a, it's such a man. No, no, dude, dude. I love a long rant. I love a long rant. I got a reputation for those on this podcast. I, um, I guess it's interesting just how, how those, those two examples correlate so beautifully. Like the idea of diet is, is not only a very controversial topic. You've got people right now saying, all right, carnivore is the only way to beat. Then the other side of the spectrum is no, you can't touch meat at all. And like it's really interesting and to, to even use the, the Vax anti-vax thing.
Mishka (13:02.207)
Alright, that was a long rant. I've been saving that one for a while.
tyson (13:30.982)
It's you look at diet and you go, okay, yeah. Well, for some people, veganism is a wonderful idea. I mean, I heard you speak about, um, just from the transition of your, your old life of just, uh, for lack of a better word, that, the generosity is, as you might call it, where it was, it was drugs, alcohol, bad food, um, no focus on health and then transitioning through to a plant based diet and just the changes in your own blood work. I did a little bit of a tune up last night, listening to a podcast with you and rich and.
for like a phase of your life, it might be like a nice transition road, might be a really good step in the right direction. But then the flip side of that is you hear Jordan Peterson speak about his obsession with the carnivore diet and some of the benefits to his own life. And then like the Vax, no Vax one is interesting as well, because I've got a good mate of mine who had no issue with it. And like you hear, I'll hear a lot of people talk about the benefits of it and how it's helped.
But then I got a mate who got myocarditis, which was a direct result of the booster shot. And he's gone from like, fuck, this is the best thing we can ever do to, oh no, I'm in a bit of, I'm in a bit of trouble here. And I feel as though like on just facts aside, which is a weird way to start a conversation, once you bring emotion into the conversation, it becomes a really interesting subject. So I wonder how many of the, the comments of people who are going like, I'm refusing to actually look at numbers and stats. He's.
He's what my emotions are saying. He's my own personal experience. And when you've got people on two different sides of a spectrum doing that, it makes for a real shit show of a conversation, hey?
Mishka (15:08.511)
Yes, absolutely. You know, our experiences, our trauma, our damage, it informs every decision that we make. And there's no such thing as an unemotional decision. They're all emotional decisions. You know, you just do the best you can to tamp down on like the anger and the fear and stuff like that. You're made with myocarditis. I feel for that, dude. You know, one of the things that I...
I believe to be true that I hold in my heart is that, you know, straight white European men have held the mic long enough. And I think it's a, I think it elevates all of us to elevate the voices of, of people of color, of the LGBTQ community, of people who haven't, people who have been systematically and serially disempowered.
There have been times in my life where people have told me, you're not getting the gig because you're a straight white male. And that's tough. But that's where the rubber meets the road, man, is that you have to look at anecdotal, right, our own personal experience. I know a guy who versus empirical, which is the data at large. And I know that the data at large.
I believe in the data at large that says that, you know, for me being a hard ass white bro, that there's enough of us out there, you know, and that I feel very fortunate to have had the publishing opportunities that I've had. But I do, even though it hurts my fucking feelings sometimes, the you know, I do think it is important for marginalized voices to get a boost, you know, when there is the opportunity.
But it's not black and white. It's not simple. It's like having good posture. You just have to work at it every day. I will say this too. I'm not vegan now. That's not something I was ever super passionate about. However, I think everyone should go vegan for six weeks. And here's why. In order...
Mishka (17:28.671)
to be vegan, you have to read the fucking labels on everything. And when you start seeing the amount of, when you see how different you feel when you're eating a diet that's based in whole grains, fruits and vegetables, when you're reading the package of your fire Cheetos or-
dill pickle chips or whatever the you'll be stunned to find out how many of those words you can't pronounce and like, man, this doesn't even sound like food. And I think so I think that alone is invaluable for everyone. And you know, and knowing rich and sort of going deep into, you know, plant based lifestyle still informs my
my life today, my experience today. I mean, I still shop like a vegan. If I shoot a deer, I eat it. I eat as much of it as I can.
tyson (18:33.466)
Yeah, it doesn't take long. You're right. That's actually one of the most eye-opening factors in my own life. When I went through a phase for about seven years of being Vego, I would have told you for a long time that I had a healthy diet. I'd always been really interested in health since I was about 12 or 13, but I'd been well and truly blindsided by the, I guess it's the, is it the sugar industry that was, I bought so hard into the idea that, hey, if it's 99% fat-free,
I was doing my part. I was looking after my health. I was staying fit and healthy. And I also, I got the feelings to prove it, you know, excuse me. I, um, like if I look back at my old diet, everything was 99% fat free and I probably had the worst diet at my school, though I thought I had, uh, I was probably the person that people considered to be the most aware or the most interested in health and it's funny how, how quickly, um, things can change. And it's interesting. Just the, um,
Mishka (19:24.831)
Mm-hmm.
tyson (19:31.918)
that the marketing that goes on around food is unbelievable. And as a result, like someone like me who thought he was relatively switched on in this department turns out to be completely wrong. Michael Pollan was really interesting to me. The chef, the author, I don't know if you're familiar with his work. I'm trying to remember, he's written a few books, but one was specifically around food. He did a documentary about it. And one thing that I took out of it was he said, if your grandma didn't recognise it as food, chances are it's probably not.
And another thing he said, if there's more than four ingredients in it, it's probably not real food. And to touch on what you said, like you walk down the average aisle of a supermarket, look at the back of a packet of biscuits, and you get to about the 36 ingredient in, it's got numbers starting to come in. You go, okay, this is a different conversation. So for now, are you more, though you're not necessarily vegan, you're just still on a whole foods, like you're just trying to eat real food.
Mishka (20:29.407)
Yeah, I mean, I, I was hanging out with a friend in Portland once and his cupboards were full of food that never went bad. And he, and every time I saw him, he was like 10 pounds heavier, 15 pounds heavier, 20 pounds heavier. And he was like, I just, I don't know what to eat. I don't know what to do. And I was like, let's go to the supermarket. We're going to go grocery shopping and I'm going to teach you how to shop. And we got to the store and I was like, okay, I'm going to wait in the car. And he was like, what? And I was like, I'm going to give you one rule.
You can buy whatever you want, anything you want, as long as it only has one ingredient. You can buy whatever you want, anything you want. It just has to have one ingredient. So that's like, you know, meat, eggs, fish, any fruit, any vegetables, and fucking nothing else.
And he just looked at me like, you know, like he was stunned, like, you know, that I was like, go do it, you know, it's possible. And he was like, but all that's going to go bad. And I was like, yeah, why would you know, it doesn't like if you put a piece of wood in your cupboard, like that's not going to be bad. It's not food, you know. So I mean, what I eat now, I eat, I eat oatmeal blueberries pretty much every morning with almond milk. And then I have
tyson (21:37.602)
Yeah.
Mishka (21:51.455)
I try to balance like just being common sense with, there's also like a question of what's convenient. So like for lunch, I often have those like bagged salads. I'll find ones that don't have the fucking bacon in it. And I'll have one of those for lunch. And then for dinner, I'll have, sometimes I have pasta with cheap bread sauce because I'm an old bachelor, or like tonight I had a piece of deer.
So it's, I mean, it's pretty straightforward. The, um, you know, still, I mean, my mom never steered me wrong with this, you know, that you got to eat your vegetables and the, and that's one of the things that you see too, is that like all these, you know, these guys who are like, Oh, the fucking liver King, what a joke. Oh, only meat, all meat, only meat. And then he was like, Oh yeah, well, you know, I eat potatoes. Also I'm on tons of steroids.
tyson (22:39.57)
Oh yeah.
tyson (22:47.47)
Ha ha
Mishka (22:51.423)
Bro, you're a joke. You're a fucking joke.
Mishka (23:02.495)
Wow, nobody saw that coming a million miles away.
tyson (23:07.906)
He was, mind you though, if I had seen the photo, I would have been, and I hadn't heard the news, I would have been tempted to give it a try because there's not too many distance runners who look like that. I tell you, if I could rock up at a cross country race, my results might not look too good, but the physique as I got around the track would be impressive, which is sort of something that as an ultra runner, you would know all about. Doesn't exist in a whole heap of races.
Mishka (23:30.751)
Yeah, yeah. The, the, what I found from like ultra running is the people who look like, uh, coyotes, those are the ones you got to look out for. Like where they, they look like they have no, they have no muscle and they just like a haunted hungry face. They're like, does those, those people will just run forever. And when they run, it doesn't even look like their feet are moving. They're, they're, they're not taking like, it's, you know, it's not like a sprinter who's like really, you know, they just have this little like,
inexhaustible trot that just never lets up. Yeah.
tyson (24:07.199)
Do you follow the distance running world pretty closely? Or you just do the, like I know that there's a big separation between track and field Olympians and like the ultra running community. So I'm not sure how many of the sort of 5,000 meter runners you follow.
Mishka (24:21.311)
Honestly, I mean, even when I was like hardcore into running distance, um, I never paid attention. I, I had, you know, different runners who I liked because of interviews they'd done or backstories that they had. But I've, I mean, running for me was never a sport. It was like, uh, meditation or something like that. It was, it was a tool that I used to get myself better. Um, I.
You know, I mean, obviously when you see the finish line and there's like two people in front of you, you're like, I'm going to try and get these guys, you know, but the, but I was never like, Trying to, trying to place or trying to finish or, you know, the, or I mean, I would, I would try to finish, but, um, but that was about it. You know, I, as I was learning to run, as I was teaching myself to run after like a lifetime of just being a degenerate, I worked with this bartender, Eddie, Eddie, if you're listening, this is for you.
Every time I would come into work, I would be like, he would be like, you know, so how was your weekend or whatever? You know the I was like, I ran six miles. I ran eight miles. I ran 11 miles, you know the One day I came and every time it was the same question, you know Oh, you know, what was your time and then I came in one day and I was like Eddie I ran 50 miles over the weekend and He was like, wow, that's awesome. What was your time? And I said Eddie I had a good time
You know, it's like I was 33 when I started running like 215 pounds. I'm not going to win any races, man. You know, but running did for me what it needed to. And it continues to do for me, you know, what I needed to. Yeah, it's just a tool that I use to help myself move through the world.
tyson (26:19.13)
In what sense do you mean?
Mishka (26:21.599)
Um, yesterday, I, you know, I'd been on the road a bunch. I have Morton's neuroma. So I just got a shot in my foot and couldn't run for a while. And then when I did run, it bruised up really badly, really hurt. So I like, I, I've been on the road eating like crap, sleeping like crap, not running. And I was just, I just felt so fucking overwhelmed. And then I went running with my friend here in Athens, JD. Last night, we just did four miles.
tyson (26:29.175)
Yeah.
Mishka (26:51.391)
Me and JD and my dog. And I woke up today and I was like, I can handle it. All the things that I have going on, all the plates that I have spinning, I can deal with it. Yesterday before I ran, I couldn't. I was redlining. I was like so fucking anxious. And you know, when I saw JD, I hadn't seen her for a while and then she was like, oh my God, my son just turned 18. I'm teaching these kids, what are you know, the.
just blurting out all the all the shit that's plaguing her. And I was like, I have these writing jobs. I don't know how I'm going to do it. You know, the I got to drive back to Austin and I drive back to Phoenix. My back's falling apart. You know, we're just you know, it's a glorious like bitch session. Just got it all out, you know, and then I woke up this morning and I was like, OK, all right, let's go. Let's get to work now. You know.
tyson (27:35.246)
I'm going to go ahead and turn it off.
tyson (27:42.602)
Yeah, I had one of those days yesterday. It's so funny. I use running for the same purpose in a lot of senses. I come from a more competitive side than you by the sound of it. I grew up as an athlete trying to run fast times, trying to beat competition. And it's been, as I've gotten older, I'm 36 now, that I've started, I've completely finished the competitive side of running, really. Though I'm flirting with the idea of training for a marathon, being trying to train for a marathon, but having some calf issues, which people tell me is an old man issue, which I'm refusing to accept.
But as I get older, one thing that I'm starting to appreciate is the avenue or the angle that you approached running from, which is that, hey, I had a good time. And much like you, man, like yesterday, I had one of those days, you know one of those admin days where you're sitting on your computer for far too long, you're doing all this tedious bullshit, you finish, you look at your business or you look at whatever you're doing and you're like, ah, it looks like I've made zero progress. I've just done all the behind the scenes stuff.
that just feels yuck to do but has to get done. And I wasn't planning on running, I'd done like a yoga session in the morning. I was like, I'm just gonna treat today easy. And I went out to my kitchen. My wife asked me a question and I don't know, it must've been the tone of voice or the shortness. And she's like, oh dude, like you need to go for a run. And I was like, I think you're right. So I put on the shoes and man, it was a beautiful day here in Melbourne yesterday. I went out for a similar distance to you, four miles, six Ks.
And I was just cruising, wasn't anything hard. It was just lapping up some sunshine. You're burning some excess anxiety, just getting outside into some fresh air. And I came home and man, like as you say, there's very rarely, regardless of how the run goes, there's very rarely a run where I get home and go, oh, I wish I didn't do that. Like that far. Ha ha ha.
Mishka (29:30.015)
I know, I know.
I can't think of one time that I've gone running where I was like, Oh, I shouldn't have done that. You know, maybe when I was injured or something like that, or, you know, I was trying to take it easy and then I ended up going longer or harder than I intended or something. But man, not even nine times out of 10, 99 times out of a hundred, I'll come in from a run and be like, I'm so glad that I did that. Thank God that I did that. You know,
tyson (30:00.83)
In terms of like create creative process and just letting things marinate like I know you said at the start that you do a Bit of everything and I was I mean I've followed your stuff for a while now So I'm aware but for those who it might be an introduction to you Obviously, you've got your speaking your comedy your writing your music Like there's some pretty head heavy tasks that you're into like whether that's writing formulating jokes Just you got to spend a lot of time in your head just to navigate and get structures right get sentences, right?
The music is one scene that I haven't had as much experience in, but I definitely appreciate the songwriting element to it. It strikes me as a similar vein to comedy in the sense that when you're writing music, you've got a million directions you could take something, and it's sort of hard to navigate which avenue is the best one to follow. So many times I'll be trying to write a punchline for a joke, or I'll be trying to start a joke. And I'm like, man, I've got the premise, and I've got 1500 ideas on where I could take it.
and I've got no idea which one's good. And then like the admin work, you can get in your head there. And for me, I'll go out and a friend of mine said to me once, he's like, I try and just say to myself, all right, like this idea is working in the background now. I don't have to be consciously thinking of it. I just go, all right, his name is Billy Stiles, comedian here in Melbourne. And he goes, all right, I've put that on the back burner, unconsciously in the background, like wheels are spinning, things are happening.
So I try and take that approach for running. Like if I'm working on an idea, I've been trying to put together ideas or like the admin thing I told you yesterday, a lot of the time I go, all right, you're on the back burner. I'm not gonna focus on you as much as I can. Sometimes I struggle with that. I'll get out. And then a couple of days later, a couple of hours later, sometimes, no real one-sized formula, something clicks, you're like, all right, I think I feel comfortable at least with this direction. Might not be right, but I feel okay about pursuing that.
Mishka (31:52.767)
Yes, I there's definitely I mean the you know the word you chose is correct marination you know that you have to just sort of like let let an idea soak sometimes I have like a rib on the right side of my back that will go out just about every day and I'll try to like I have a back roller I have massage balls I'll try and do everything and anything I can to like try and get it to go back in and
It won't do it. And then at night when I'm laying on my left side, I'll just like, forget about it and take a breath and then I hear it click and it goes back in. And so it's the, to try to apply direct focus to it. It never works for some reason. I need to like ignore it, forget about it, relax. Um, and one of the things that I've found is that, you know, with writing
Whether you're writing a song or you're writing a piece or writing a joke or something. You sit there and you like stare at your computer or stare at your notebook or whatever. Just push and push and push and push and nothing happens. And then you go running where you don't have a piece of paper in front of you. You don't have a screen in front of you. But it's like the pressure is off your brain because you're physically occupied with a task. You're doing a thing. You're running. You're performing a job.
tyson (33:04.726)
Hmm, yeah.
Mishka (33:18.463)
Right? Um, the, and then your brain is allowed to sort of like, like take a breath. And that's when a lot of the magic happens. And there are definitely been times on a run where I'm like, Oh shit, I gotta remember this when I get home. I gotta remember this when I get home, you know, the, and sort of solve three different problems. But, uh, yeah, the admin is a bitch, dude. That drives me nuts all the time.
tyson (33:43.479)
How do you come at your, I'm so interested to hear your question, hear your answer to this question because I think the formula that I feel that I need to apply would make you squirm. I feel as though you're going to hate what I do as my approach. And I'm not even convinced I really like it. I'm actually in the process of trying to figure it out. So
Listening to different comedians speak about the way that they prepare a joke is So interesting to me because there's just so many different approaches Kevin Hart sat down with Seinfeld a while ago on I think it was Kevin Hart's podcast Comedy comedy minds or whatever it's called and he said to Seinfeld all right like yeah arguably the greatest comic of all time Tell us your process and he's like alright Well, I've got notebooks and notebooks and notebooks and notebooks filled up because every day I sat down for 20 minutes and I wrote
And over the course of 30 years, that equals like hundreds of notebooks. And he's like, oh, so like, what do you do with those? He's like, well, I catalog the ideas that I like. I catalog the ones I don't like. And then I also like, I collect my empty pens just so I can see the evidence of the hard work. And Kevin Hart's like, shit, ah, shit. And Simon Fowler's like, what are you, what's the matter? He's like, dude, I didn't even wanna tell you my process. Is that tell me? He's like, well, I've got, he goes, okay, like.
I've got, all I have is a note folder in my iPhone and it's got like dad's pants. And then below that it says mom's shirt. And then below that it says a kid's function. And I get on stage and before I go on stage, I look at these dot points and that's all I've got. My mind just kicks into gear and I go, oh, I know what I'm doing now. And like the romantic side of creativity.
in me says, no, I wanna do Seinfeld because there's the evidence of the hard work. I've got the notebooks and there's something nice about pen and paper and sitting down and like that tactile experience of putting it all down. It's maybe like the vinyls versus Spotify in the world of music. There's something that you appreciate about that real tactile experience. But when it comes to the actual result of what you're doing, like arguably Kevin Hart's a better comedian than Seinfeld. He's arguably the greatest comedian of all time. I mean, it's subjective, obviously,
tyson (35:57.794)
there seems to be no one right formula when it comes to it. And so when it comes to preparing jokes, I'm a little bit like, sometimes I'll be on a run, I'll be on a surf, I'll be going for a walk, and something funny will pop into my head. I go, that's the best joke I've got. And then sometimes I'll sit down behind a notebook for 20 minutes or an hour and go, there's nothing here. Like, have you got a little bit of an approach just to get the wheels turning when it comes to actually try and write music or speeches or comedy or whatever it is that you're working on? Or do you just prefer the
hey, let's just see what happens. And if something funny comes to me, I'll write that down and try and work on it.
Mishka (36:31.263)
I mean, it's funny, you know, contrasting Kevin Hart with Seinfeld, you know, cuz I always look at like Jay Z and Kanye. Jay Z never writes, hit down his raps and the, and Kanye does. Kanye has no book after no book after no book. I think Jay Z objectively the better person, Kanye the better rapper or the denser rapper, you know.
Um.
Let me respond to your question with an anecdote. My dog, when she jumps up onto the bed, the exertion of jumping up onto the bed makes her fart. And every time she jumps up onto the bed and she farts, she doesn't know what happened. So she'll turn around to look at her ass, like, whoa! Like out of concern. What was that?
tyson (37:25.71)
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
Mishka (37:33.919)
And I got my dog during lockdown, so we're real bonded together. So the dogs can tell when a person is laughing and they like it. They know when a person's laughing, the dog likes it when a person laughs. So the other day, my dog jumped up on the bed and farted and looked at her ass and I started laughing. And she looked at me and smiled and she farted again. And then I just started dying. She looked at me and she grinned and then she farted a third time.
tyson (37:42.926)
When a person's white, sorry. Yep.
Mishka (38:03.455)
me, you, Seinfeld, Kevin Hart, none of us will ever write anything funnier than a dog farting and looking at her own ass. That is the fucking apex of comedy right there. I don't care how smart you are, where you went to school, how many years you have doing comedy, get your dog to fart and it'll be funnier. So it's like, that's the other thing about comedy. It's like, why are we chasing this stupid thing where it's like the most cutting edge.
tyson (38:06.537)
Heheheheheheh
tyson (38:27.232)
That's so funny.
Mishka (38:32.799)
joke will always just be a fart, you know? I've worked with...
I think there's writing and I think there's performing. You know, my friend Andy Andrist, he would get up to do 20 minutes and he would just have five things written on his hand. And that like gives me a panic attack just thinking about it because I wanna have everything scripted. I wanna know where I breathe in the sentence. I wanna know, you know, this goes to this, this goes to this, this goes to this.
And I really limit myself with that. Because if I because it all each each line depends on the one proceeding it. So if I miss one or somebody fucking yell something or you know, a server drops a glass, then I'm like, oh fuck, how do I get back on here? You know, so if I if I miss a little thing, they'll fuck me up. And but that's just how I operate and I don't.
Sometimes I'm able to improvise on my feet, but that's not what I do best My friend Jake Flores, you know, he would never write a set out and he's I Mean Brett Eriksson one of my favorite comedians We're doing this comedy festival and like at a comedy festival. You want to bring your like greatest hits or whatever
And like Brett got up there and he'd like grown his hair long during lockdown or whatever. And he was like, can I get a fan up here? Like he put his foot up on the monitor. Like he was in a rock band and like just hung his hair down. And then the sound guy brought a fan up. And so Brett burned most of his set, just preening with his long hair in, you know, with the fan with it blowing back and he killed. And it would have been dumb for him to do jokes there because he had them, you know, and for him to back away on, you know, from that.
Mishka (40:31.711)
Um, he would be back and wait for something that was working, you know, really well. So, you know, which is a long way of saying, I'm definitely the notebook kind of guy. I, you know, I don't write down funny ideas. I have to write down my whole like little novellas. Um, but I do think that, you know, there are some comics who are just, they're just
funny people. You know, Glenn Wohl will raise an eyebrow and just level a room. You know, he just he has he has one of those faces that can just I don't want to say Glenn you have a funny face. He has he has very comedic gestures, you know. But yeah, I'm definitely one of the neurotic writers.
tyson (41:22.468)
Yeah. Yeah, man. Is that the same when you're writing? It doesn't matter what you're writing. It's just it's that same kind of approach. Like I, man, I felt I felt so dumb when I first reached out to you because I, as I said, I heard a few of your podcasts and I was like, yeah, I'd sort of just settled for that.
And then you go to me, dude, have you read any of my books? And I was like, oh crap, I have to be honest with this bloke. I was like, I haven't touched it yet. And then, man, I felt like a fraud because obviously I messaged you back and I know it was the big one, the long run. Was just, it trips me up. I had Sam Talent on the podcast a while ago. I don't know how well you know Sam or if you know Sam, but his book, Running the Light, to me, I don't.
Mishka (41:39.551)
Thank you.
Mishka (41:58.911)
Yeah.
tyson (42:05.15)
read like a lot of literature, like I don't read a lot of fiction. So I didn't really know how to compliment him on the book, but I was listening to it and I was like, holy shit, like this is unbelievable. It trips me out that someone can sit down and write these ideas and I don't know. Fiction is one I don't understand. But then the flip side of that is.
even putting together like an autobiography, a non-fiction book, you go, how do you structure all this? Because like what I said before about writing music, it seems to be a scene where there's a million different directions you can take, especially in like a two and a half hour book, I don't listen to the audio version. You go, well, there's endless stories I could tell, especially with your life, I feel like, man, I wanted to know more and more, but there's obviously some...
blinkers that have to come on and some rules that come in about like what gets put in, what gets left out. How do you go about putting together a project like that in comparison to writing comedy?
Mishka (43:08.671)
You know that I played a role in Sam's book coming out, right? Yeah, he sent me 50 pages and he was like, you're a writer. Will you read this? And I was like, yeah, I'll read it. But if it sucks, I'm going to tell you because I can't not. So he sent me 50 pages and I was like, this is fucking incredible. Like send me the rest of it. And it was so good that I went to my agent with it.
tyson (43:15.522)
Dude, I had no idea.
tyson (43:22.836)
What?
Mishka (43:37.919)
And I was like, you've got to rep this guy. Like this book's incredible. And he took Sam on and then he took the book around. And I think the best offer that Sam got was for like $7,000, which for a first time novel, that's totally fine. To get any offer, that's great. And Sam called me and he was like, dude, it's bullshit. I'm not gonna take it. And I was like, don't take it. He was like, I'm gonna self publish. I was like, fucking self publish. And then I got the book to Stan Hope.
tyson (43:38.716)
Oh, dude!
tyson (43:57.984)
Okay.
Mishka (44:07.647)
when Sam self-published it and then Stan Hope fell in love with it and then it was a big hit. It's a big hit because it's a fucking brilliant book and it's the best thing that I've ever read that just sort of came to me cold like that. I knew when I was reading it, I was like, holy shit, holy shit. But yeah, Sam used one of my songs at the end of his special. Super cool of him.
I just saw him when I was in Colorado. Yeah, it's a small scene, dude. Everybody knows everybody.
tyson (44:35.046)
What?
tyson (44:39.222)
Oh, that's so funny, man. See, I reached out to him cold thinking he'd tell me to piss off because I finished his book and was like, dude. I finished his book and I said, man, that was amazing. I just thought that would go unread in his inbox and he wrote back later, oh, thank you. And I thought, oh, hang on, I'm on here. And so I went back and forth a little bit and invited him on. And it was, yeah, really interesting conversation. But for you, man, like when you got that 50 page,
Mishka (44:45.183)
Sam's a much better sport than I am.
tyson (45:08.178)
manuscript, like when you're reading that, what was so brilliant about that to you? Because it was, I was reading it, and as I said, don't know much about what makes a great fiction book apart from, hey, I'm enjoying this or I'm not enjoying this.
Mishka (45:21.311)
So I read on the slush pile at the New Yorker and they had an entire room that was just devoted to stories. So you would pull out a bin that's like 10 months old and start reading stories that people have sent in. And some of them are writers who don't have agents and some of them are your dad or your grandpa or your auntie or, you know, oh, I always thought I'd write a story, you know. And then some are prisoners and the...
and some are crackpots and you know when you're working on the slush pile your job is just to To read you have to read the story until you get to a point That you know that it's not going to be published in the New Yorker and then you can skip and then you Put the form letter and move on to the next one and you have to get through as many of those as you can as quickly As possible, so you don't read the entire thing You just read until you're sure that it can't be published in the New Yorker and for some of that
It was fucking 30 seconds. And you were like, nope, not good enough. Or not just not right, you know? And sometimes you would read three quarters of the way through and then be like, ah, it really, it never congealed there and never came together. So I approached Sam's writing with a very critical eye. And I, you know, Sam's my friend and I think very highly of him. You know, I thought very highly of him as a comedian. And I was like, I owe it to this guy to.
to give him a rigorous critique, you know? So I was like, I'm gonna read this until it gets to a part where it sucks and then I'll tell him. And I was reading and reading and it's not sucking at all and it's actually really good. And then I got to a point where I was like, just scanning the pages, like, come on, there's gotta be something fucking terrible here. Like, you know, sort of with mounting.
tyson (47:10.766)
Yeah.
Mishka (47:16.319)
I didn't have mounting excitement. I had mounting dread because the better it got and the longer that it stayed good, I was like, I'm going to be that much more heartbroken when it tanks. And it never did. And he sustained it. He kept it up the whole way through. And I couldn't believe I was, I was stunned. I was floored. I was so excited. Um, it was incredibly gratifying to, you know, to, to read something at that high level, you know,
tyson (47:43.906)
Hmm. Yeah, it was interesting because when you when you hear a comedian come out that's written a book I don't know. I'm stealing this from someone But sort of like the attitude that you have you're like, oh no I'm gonna have to fake that this is a good book because my friend in comedy has written a book about comedy and It seems to be universal like every comedian. I put it this way here in Melbourne I haven't heard one person who's read it go Not really my thing Yeah, yeah
Mishka (48:08.223)
It's literature, period. Sam did an incredible job there. And the fucking publishing industry didn't recognize it and fuck them. They slept on what could have been a huge book for any publishing house. Yeah, I'm so proud of him. I love that narrative arc. In music, we describe it as friend rock. When like, Gary who works in HR is like, oh, you should really come see my band. And you're like, oh.
tyson (48:34.446)
Hehehehe
Mishka (48:35.487)
Oh, ah, really don't think that's a good idea, Gary. All right, fuck it, let's go. And then it's just the worst shit. And afterwards you have to be like, oh, you guys are really tight or the production was, oh, you're just like, oh, I have to work with this guy. Like, I can't, what do I say? But yeah, there's a lot of people who, I remember being, I think I was like 19 and.
tyson (48:40.706)
Hehehehe
Mishka (49:03.775)
this guy, Bill Maher, had a fucking TV show called Politically Incorrect that I thought was funny because I was 19 and I was a shithead. And I liked it. And then I got his book for Christmas one year or something. And I was like, this is dogshit. And the and I'm grateful that I got that book because I was, you know, it was my first opportunity to see that, you know, Bill Maher is a house of cards. And and also that.
Writing a book is incredibly difficult. If you're a writer, don't think that you can hop up on stage and just do like a fucking eight minutes of comedy and destroy. And if you're a comic, don't think that you can just write a book. What's so remarkable, I mean, you should, everybody should try, but what's so remarkable about Sam's, that's what's so remarkable about Sam's story and his narrative arc is that it's so unlikely.
tyson (49:55.362)
Hmm, yeah. What everyone should try and write a book, did you say?
Mishka (49:59.967)
Yeah, why not? You know, I mean, the that is the great thing about writing is that it's so like small D democratic writing is available to everybody. And, you know, in the same way that I think everybody should have a relationship with with running, even if it's walking, if you go and walk a mile each day, or if you run 20 miles every day, the each person should have a like a personal relationship with their running. Everybody benefits from having a personal relationship with writing.
Writing and running are the two tools that have helped me get sober and stay sober and move forward as a human being, you know, more than anything else.
tyson (50:41.586)
Yeah. Have you read much of Murakami?
Mishka (50:46.367)
Man, I've been meaning to read, I read, shit it was a long time ago, the Wind Up Bird Chronicles, I don't even know, I can't remember. But I read one of his books, and then he has another book about running that people have been encouraging me to read forever, and I still haven't read, sorry guys. But yeah.
tyson (51:12.99)
Yeah, no, just when you're speaking about the relationship between the running and writing, I know, I actually don't know a lot of his. I've read the, I think it's called what we talk about, or what we talk about when we talk about running or something like that, or why I run. It's something along those lines. Yeah, so it'd be interesting to know how many marathon runners or how many riders sort of use each tour. It's just interesting comparison to, because I hadn't heard too many people outside of him speak about both of those as being a beneficial habit. Like I understand from each speaking about like the idea
Mishka (51:23.007)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
tyson (51:42.904)
dealing with emotions or understanding what you're thinking or what's going through your mind or like, why is that a beneficial process to the average person?
Mishka (51:50.431)
Stephen King is a huge walker, and it's part of his writing ritual. He'll wake up and write for like two or three hours, and then he'll go and walk for two or three hours. And then I think he comes back and writes more. And I think that running or walking plays the same role for a writer that sleep plays for another human being, where...
Sleep is an opportunity for your body to rest and repair itself and restore itself. And I think exercise is an opportunity for your brain to rest and to sort of restore itself. You're getting increased blood flow. You're getting all the endorphins and hormones that are released when you're exercising. So yeah, I think I would be...
I would be stunned. Actually, no, I think there's a great article or even a book to be written about different authors' relationship with exercise, whether it's walking or running. Because I think if somebody poked around, they would find that a lot of writers we don't imagine to be runners, who aren't like,
speed demons or marathon runners or anything like that, that they go out and do three or four miles each day or something, you know.
tyson (53:22.522)
Yeah, isn't that true? This is one thing that I find so interesting about the stand-up comedy scene wherever you are in the world. Like there's this idea or at least I had this idea that the best comics, best musicians, they were always the... maybe there's an argument to be made in some cases. They're always the drug addicts, the alcoholics, like they're crazy.
But then I've spent enough time in, especially the comedy scene now to go, oh, I actually don't think that's true. Like there's a lot of brilliant artists who are completely sober. And that's, I find that really, really hope-filled because I've got no interest in sacrificing my life on the altar of creativity. Like I don't wanna become a drug addict. I don't wanna be a good comedian if it means I have to do it, be a drug addict to do it, you know? Cause obviously, just cause you can tell funny jokes, I lose my family as a result.
There's plenty of examples and like to go back to a spectrum, in Melbourne, we've got your drug addicts, your alcoholics, people who have never exercised a day in their life depressed on the brink of suicide. They'll still come up a few nights a week and they'll do their comedy. The other side of the spectrum, you've got people who are like, hey, I like the mental attitude. I like the psychological thrill of this. I'm into fitness, I'm into health, I'm into nutrition, and I'm into refining my craft, whatever that craft is. And they come at comedy like that.
And you get all these people in a room and like with some exceptions, but most of us get on like a house on fire. It's like there's nowhere else in the world you'd get that group of people with one key goal just getting on in a room. But I start all that just to say that there seems to be, there's not one perfect avenue for nailing creativity, whether that's you've got drug addicts doing it well, you've got those who are completely sober doing it well.
I'm not really sure what my question is there, but it's an interesting observation, don't you think?
Mishka (55:13.279)
Yeah, I mean, I felt, felt prayed to the same myth when I was younger, too, that you had to be fucked up in order to be an artist. And I don't think that's true. And also. If you're. 36 and you're an artist and a comedian and you haven't done drugs, do some fucking drugs, man. There's a reason why people do drugs. Like this is your life. It's not a museum.
tyson (55:33.838)
Mm. Yeah.
Mishka (55:42.687)
You know, you should you should try. There's some things you should try. There's some things that everybody my mom ate mushrooms. All right, everybody.
tyson (55:43.72)
Yeah.
tyson (55:51.799)
Your mum sounds like a legend, I've heard a lot about this woman.
Mishka (55:54.559)
She's great. I was just talking to my sister today because my mom's overdoing the Camino in speed. Yeah.
tyson (56:01.659)
Oh dude, oh dude I've done it. It's unbelievable. Yeah, bro
Mishka (56:06.751)
Dude, she's 76 doing 15 miles a day. And my sister and I are like, fucking, is she grounded after this? Like we're over it. We're over her long distance overseas escapades. You know, we just want her to like stay at home. And you know, but.
tyson (56:09.703)
Yep.
tyson (56:27.798)
That's unbelievable. She's there solo?
Mishka (56:30.175)
No, she's there with a couple, with a group of friends. I think different, you know, people she's met from sort of different adventures that she's had over the years. And like, you know, yeah, mom, I'm happy you're fulfilling your dream and all that shit. But like, we want you home where you're safe. Like, we don't want to worry about you. I think the thing.
tyson (56:45.41)
Hehehehe
Mishka (56:52.351)
I mean, comedy is such a big umbrella. For some people is like, I want to make one person laugh at this tragedy of my life before I die. And for other people, they're like, I want this to be my career. And I'm a professional. And I was definitely like of the first school. And now I want to like, I want to put on good shows and stuff. I want.
I want people who pay for tickets to like be happy, you know, like, Oh, that was totally worth it. Or I want to say things that stick in their heads for 10 years or whatever. I'm not going to, this is never going to be a career for me. I'm, you know, I'm not, um, I'm not that funny in order to make it as, you know, to there's, um, there's a lot of people at the very bottom and there's a few people in the middle and there's very few at the top. Um, and.
You know, Sam talent is like, you know, he's an incredible, um, he's an incredible talent. He's a very gifted dude. He's worked very hard at it for a long time. Comedy is something I just sort of like fell into recently where I was as a song writer, I, you know, I was getting booked on these comedy bills and I was like, I'm funnier than these dudes. I can fucking do this. You know, so, um, it's not, I'm not looking to comedy to change my life.
tyson (58:13.486)
I'm going to go ahead and turn it off.
Mishka (58:19.999)
I'm looking to comedy to have a good time with my friends and hopefully sell enough t-shirts that will come home with 200 bucks. But I don't.
tyson (58:30.75)
Yeah, man. Yeah.
Mishka (58:37.247)
I don't think that there's a lot of like longevity in being one of those like burnout comics and like I put on shows in my backyard and I don't fuck those guys. I don't want to cause I just don't want to deal with the hassle. And also some of my favorite comics have been like tremendous fuckups, you know, uh, you know, Richard Pryor, um, Stan Hope is a long list of people who just sort of like flamed out early, you know.
tyson (59:02.568)
Yeah, it's an interesting scene, man. Dude, I've got my eyes on the clock. I know you got a hard cut off at seven your time, so I'm gonna love you and leave you. I know your mom's gonna tell you all about it when you get home, but dude, I reckon you would love the Camino. I don't know if you've ever been. We did three weeks there in 2017, and I was pretty skeptical going into it. I thought, oh, this'll be interesting.
pretty crazy experience, pretty unbelievable. Like in, yeah, I mean, and from so many different avenues or so many different perspectives. But man, I'd love to hear more about that. I reckon there's like a Camino High or whatever they call about it, which is I feel not gonna equate to any of the drugs that you've recommended, the 36 year old try. But if you haven't tried it, I reckon Camino seems like a decent alternative, man. So yeah, I hope you're feeling patient because once you get home, you're gonna get months and months of stories.
Mishka (59:55.839)
I, you know, I, I love Spain and I've heard that Portugal is beautiful. I have, um, I have like a decent following in Spain. My, uh, my nephew's over in Barcelona right now. Uh, who knows it could happen, you know.
tyson (01:00:09.154)
Awesome man. Oi, Mishka, I'm gonna love you and leave you. I'm so glad we got a chance to line this up. Really appreciate your time, brother. Awesome, man. Catch you later. See everybody.
Mishka (01:00:15.519)
Yeah, absolutely.
Right. All right. Take care.
tyson (01:00:21.478)
Easy bro. Amen. Thank you so much.
Mishka (01:00:24.319)
Absolutely.