Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques

The road to mastery is paved with small improvements every day.

Communicating can feel daunting at times. What does it take to find your voice in the moments that matter most? As Chiney Ogwumike says, “There is freedom on the other side of your fear.”
As a professional basketball player, NBA and WNBA analyst for ESPN, and advocate for gender equality in sports, Ogwumike faces many situations where communication is critical. For her, achieving confidence in communication is the same as honing any other skill—embracing failure and refinement through repetition. “The best things in life are things you work out over long periods of time,” she says. “Great people, great communicators, anyone that's working at something, show up each and every day and just chip away, chip away, chip away, until they turn that weakness into a strength.”
In this episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, Ogwumike and host Matt Abrahams discuss how practice and preparation can equip us for better communication, transforming fear into confidence, perfectionism into authenticity, and weakness into strength.

To listen to the extended Deep Thinks version of this episode, please visit FasterSmarter.io/premium.

Episode Reference Links:

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Chapters:

  • (00:00) - Introduction
  • (03:06) - Communication on the Court
  • (04:48) - Performing Under Pressure
  • (06:57) - Lessons from Great Coaches
  • (09:07) - Embracing Imperfection and Authenticity
  • (12:29) - Strategies for Effective On-Air Communication
  • (18:54) - The Final Three Questions
  • (21:47) - Conclusion

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Creators and Guests

Host
Matt Abrahams
Lecturer Stanford University Graduate School of Business | Think Fast Talk Smart podcast host
Guest
Chiney Ogwumike
WNBA All-Star | ESPN Host & Analyst

What is Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques?

One of the most essential ingredients to success in business and life is effective communication.

Join Matt Abrahams, best-selling author and Strategic Communication lecturer at Stanford Graduate School of Business, as he interviews experts to provide actionable insights that help you communicate with clarity, confidence, and impact. From handling impromptu questions to crafting compelling messages, Matt explores practical strategies for real-world communication challenges.

Whether you’re navigating a high-stakes presentation, perfecting your email tone, or speaking off the cuff, Think Fast, Talk Smart equips you with the tools, techniques, and best practices to express yourself effectively in any situation. Enhance your communication skills to elevate your career and build stronger professional relationships.

Tune in every Tuesday for new episodes. Subscribe now to unlock your potential as a thoughtful, impactful communicator. Learn more and sign up for our eNewsletter at fastersmarter.io.

Matt Abrahams: The effort you
put in, in terms of practice and

preparation, have a huge impact on
the quality of your communication.

My name is Matt Abrahams, and I
teach strategic communication at

Stanford Graduate School of Business.

Welcome to Think Fast
Talk Smart, the podcast.

Today I am excited to
speak with Chiney Ogwumike.

Chiney is a professional basketball
player, an NBA and WNBA analyst

for ESPN, and an advocate for
gender equality in sports.

She, along with her sister Nneka, were
star basketball players at Stanford.

Chiney, I am thrilled to have you join me.

Thanks for being here.

Chiney Ogwumike: Thanks for having me.

This is definitely a Bucket list podcast.

Matt Abrahams: Should we get started?

Chiney Ogwumike: Yeah, let's do it.

Matt Abrahams: Unlike some sports
that have time for in-game planning

and communication, think of like
a football huddle, basketball

is incredibly fast paced.

How did you manage to communicate
effectively and quickly while on the go?

Chiney Ogwumike: The cool thing
about sports is that it forces

you to communicate, whether you
are someone that is vocal or not.

You have to be able to use
your voice, find your voice.

That doesn't mean you have to
talk a lot, it just means that you

have to communicate the important
messages because we are all one team.

Communication is essential when it
comes to team sports and basketball.

We'll test that because
it's also a cardio sport.

So like you have to communicate, you have
to look, you have to do nonverbal cues

like all of that matters when it comes
to trying to achieve your ultimate goal.

Matt Abrahams: And would you work
with your teammates to come up

with some shorthand or ways of
communicating more quickly or in that

moment so you could perform better?

Chiney Ogwumike: Oh, absolutely.

One of the things that I learned
from the greatest coach I've ever

played for, iconic, Tara VanDerveer,
is, she's very big on symbols.

Because oftentimes there's so many things
in this world that can be distractions,

that can be things that can be used
to sort of deflect what your goal

is or what you're trying to achieve.

That coach, Tara, she taught us symbols,
one, two, three, four, or just, you

know, shapes or just, you know, movements
that can be read no matter who's

in the room, whether that room is a
small practice gym or Maples Pavilion.

It's interesting because the best, most
gratifying moments that I've had, not just

in basketball, also in, as a broadcaster,
is when you're able to work with someone,

you're doing something at a high level and
you are communicating even non-verbally.

Because it really shows you
the essence of chemistry.

And I found that on the court, and
I've also found that in the studio.

Matt Abrahams: Wow.

So this notion of trust really underlies
a lot of this, and it's multi-channel.

It's not just the words you
use, it's the symbols and the

non-verbal that really matter, and
working on it makes a difference.

And I'd love that you've seen that
both in your playing life, but in

also in your professional life.

Playing professional basketball requires
performing under immense pressure.

I can't imagine what it feels like
to shoot a free throw with thousands

of people yelling and screaming.

What mental strategies do you use
to stay calm and focused during high

pressure situations, both when you're
on the court, but also when you're on

the screen or in your everyday life?

Chiney Ogwumike: It sounds
so corny, but it's true.

The older I get, the more I realize that
these old adages actually make sense.

People are saying it for a reason
and it keeps getting passed on

from generation to generation.

Practice makes perfect, and I love
that you brought up the free throw

because that was where I had my fear.

I was very afraid as a freshman at
Stanford University to shoot free

throws because I wasn't great at it.

But there is freedom on the
other side of your fear.

Meaning if you go in there and you
practice and you do the repetition,

a repetition of errors means it
shows a lack of intelligence.

Like you keep making the same mistakes,
it shows that you're not capable of

retaining information so that you can
be better and erase those mistakes.

So for me, I was like a sixty percent free
throw shooter when I came to Stanford.

And I'm not gonna lie,
exactly what you talked about.

We'd have our, you know, Maple
Pavilion is just rocking.

I would always tell people my hands
didn't feel like my hands because I

was over conscious of what I looked
like, what I felt like in that moment.

So what did I do?

I just went, during practice, after
everything was done, to the corner,

and I just kept shooting free throw
after free throw after free throw.

And now, when I got to the pros,
I was so confident in my free

throws that people would say,
Chiney, you know, end of practice.

It's either you make it or
we have to run down and back.

I'd go up there and I'd knock down my
free throw, and it was a mental thing.

My dad loves the mind over matter.

Giving yourself that notion that I have
practiced this, I am a master of this.

All I have to do is do what I
do, no matter the circumstance.

And so that's sort of what helped me
when it came to addressing situations

that I felt like were bigger than me,
but I knew I could meet that moment.

Matt Abrahams: So taking the
time to confront the fear and

practice your way through it.

I love that notion of there's
freedom on the other side of fear,

but you have to to commit and do
the work and it has great payoffs.

And I think a lot of people listening
in have fear of speaking in front of

others or standing up in high stake
situations and, and there are things

that we can do to practice to help.

Taking classes, listening to a
show like this, doing Toastmasters.

There are all these ways to get
that practice and those reps in.

Thank you for sharing that.

You have had several coaches over your
career, what have you noticed that

great coaches do to motivate their
players and how have you taken some of

those learnings into what you do when
you have to motivate other people?

Chiney Ogwumike: My mom has always had
a saying that I have internalized, tiny

drops of water make a mighty ocean.

And when I think about great coaches and
being able to address maybe fears, whether

it is communication or performance, I
go to that saying, and it marries with

what coach Tara, I learned by watching
her for four years, is showing up as

the same person each and every day.

And that to me is the number one thing
that we can do to be able to put ourselves

in a position to have that growth.

I think oftentimes the best things in life
are things you work out over long periods

of time, and so being in an environment
where I have learned and watched so

many great coaches show up as the same
person, whether it's win or loss, approach

preparation at the highest levels, and
then know that you give your all no

matter what the outcome is gonna be,

that to me is what moves the
goalpost forward inch by inch, not

just on those Hail Mary touchdowns.

It's like those incremental
things that are sustainable.

Those tiny drops of water that
builds an ocean that can change the

tides of how you perceive yourself.

Great people, great communicators, anyone
that's working at something, at a skill,

show up as the same person each and
every day and just chip away, chip away,

chip away at it, into the point where
they turn that weakness into a strength.

And then after turning that into
a strength, they go onto another

skill and harness that skillset to
the point where you're a master.

Matt Abrahams: I really like
your mother's saying of the, the

drops leading into the ocean.

I think that's a really powerful
metaphor for what you're talking

about, which is it takes time and it
takes practice, and the great coaches

focus on the, the little things.

It's not the, the, the
big thing right away.

It's these little steps that
get you to that greatness.

I do wanna talk a little bit
about your move into broadcasting.

Uh, you know, broadcasting, especially
sports broadcasting, is a male dominated

profession, although it is changing.

How have you dealt with being part
of a profession where there aren't

lots of people similar to yourself?

Many of our listeners can relate
to not being like others that

they work with in terms of age,
gender, experience, et cetera.

How have you handled that and what
have you done to help yourself

feel more comfortable but also help
others see the value that you bring.

Chiney Ogwumike: So the biggest
challenge that I had when I just

started becoming a broadcaster, and
the way I sum it up, is this saying,

they see you before they hear you.

They judge you before they know
you, but they still can't stop you.

And being in this field, it's very similar
to playing because when I played and

I miss a shot and it's on national TV,
everyone saw that I missed that shot.

Very similar to broadcast.

If I forget a player's name
or I mess up on a breakdown.

Everyone's gonna see that.

That's my voice, that's my face.

But one thing I have found that
I think people don't realize

is perfection is overrated.

Missing shots teach you how to make shots.

Making mistakes teach you how to
protect yourself from having those

types of situations in the future.

And also, I think there's this thing in
communication that people don't realize.

Not many people, if any,
are perfect communicators.

We're gonna stutter, we're gonna
stammer, we're gonna forget a

name, we're gonna forget a place.

What you do when that happens is what
defines how you are as a communicator.

Those are the things where you accept your
humanity, and I think that actually makes

you more relatable, being unapologetically
yourself, being real, being honest.

As long as you believe in it and you
are prepared and you have intentions

in when you are trying to communicate
your message, the rest is a non-factor.

And so to me, that's the biggest thing.

Like communication is not flawless.

It's a learning exercise.

It's something you continue to grow at.

It's something you continue to master,
but there's no one that is a absolute

to the T perfect communicator.

Matt Abrahams: At the end of the
day, what you're really talking

about is authenticity, right?

The bottom line is be yourself, but
this notion of there is no perfect

communication and stressing out over it.

Absolutely one hundred percent correct.

You need to come teach my class, because
that's one of the biggest messages

that I try to get across to my MBA
students is that there is no perfect.

There's better and there's worse.

But as you said, we learn from that.

And what I really like is, you know,
the question I asked is, you're in

a space where there aren't a lot of
people who have your background, have

your experience, and yet you have
carved out a space because of that

authenticity, because of that willingness
to just show up and be your best.

And if that's not perfect, that's okay.

Keep working at it.

And I think there's a lesson
in there for all of us.

Now that requires a certain
degree of confidence though.

And it sounds like that confidence has
built in you through your preparation,

through the support system you have
from your coaches, your family.

I'd like to talk specifically in
detail about the broadcasting you do.

You on a regular basis are
in front of large audiences.

What rules and practices have you
found helpful in communicating a

lot of detailed information, and yet
making it accessible and engaging?

It's fun to watch you break down
a play or talk about something.

But when you think about it,
you're covering a whole lot of

really technical information.

Do you rely on particular
tools or strategies to do that?

Chiney Ogwumike: Yeah, there are a couple
of strategies, and so I guess the easiest

way to answer this is to give you a
little bit of insight into my routine.

So I typically come into the
studio earlier than most analysts.

Because one thing I've realized,
especially as being a woman

speaking on the MBA, people wanna
be like, oh, but what do you know?

You never played in the NBA.

What I do know are numbers and facts.

So I love sitting down with my
researchers because they're the ones

that help me substantiate my opinions.

In a dream world, having my blanket
opinion would be great, but one

thing I've realized is people like
opinion and also fact to back it up.

And so I spend a lot of time with
our researchers for every argument

that I have, having numbers to
substantiate what I'm gonna say.

Then I go up into the studio, and this is
something that I think is very important

because a lot of times people think
that, okay, I'm just gonna go and talk.

You have to get your mind right
for what you're about to do.

And so I have two things that I do.

I say the Serenity prayer, which is
God, grant me the serenity to accept

the things I cannot change, the courage
to change the things that I can, and

the wisdom to know the difference.

And then this is just
something I always do too.

I say the angel of God, my
guardian dear, that prayer.

I say that every time I get on a
flight too, just because I feel

like I'm entering an environment.

And I did it before every game.

I did those two things before
every basketball game too.

Just like giving my protection
in this moment to my spirituality

and also understanding that I
have power to really help shape

narratives that are my passions.

So that's step two.

So step one is research.

Step two is getting my mind into
the place where I can perform.

And then step three is threes, actually.

What I have found is that people can
take information the best in threes.

When you just have a blanket
statement, people are looking for more.

You know, LeBron James is the greatest
basketball player of all time.

Great.

Now tell me why.

Now, if you have a deluge of facts,
then you might get lost in the sauce.

So three key points are
very easy to be retained.

Matt Abrahams: So like you did
as a player, there was a lot

of work that went into that.

I really appreciate
several things you said.

First and foremost, you have to
have your approach and mindset down,

and you found a routine that works
for you to help you feel empowered

and to help you feel focused.

And that's critical.

Again, it comes down to the repetition,
the practise, the learning, the detail.

And then I really like that you
are mindful of how you actually

structure the information.

You don't just give people
a deluge of information.

You are very mindful of making a
clear point and then supporting

it, but not with too much detail.

And that's, I think, a lesson
for all of us that we have to

prepare ourselves mentally.

We have to know our stuff, show up
authentically, and then package it in a

way that people can remember it, and give
them what they need but not too much more.

That was a great distillation of what I
think makes for effective communication.

Before we end, I like to ask
all my guests three questions.

One I create just for you,
and the other two are similar

across everybody I interview.

Are you up for that?

Chiney Ogwumike: Yeah, absolutely.

I'm down.

Matt Abrahams: My first question is, if
you had an opportunity to speak to young

women, women coming out of college, or of
that age, starting their careers for the

first time, what's one bit of advice you
would give them beyond what you've talked

about, in terms of show up, be authentic.

You know, is there something
else you would share with young

women who are entering the
workforce or their first career?

Chiney Ogwumike: I think it's such a
unique time and I don't take these moments

for granted, and so what I would share to
the rising generation of young women is

that you belong and so does your voice.

I think oftentimes in society we look at
the idea of comparison being the thief of

joy instead of staying true to your own
path and being authentically yourself.

To me, that's what has changed the game.

Matt Abrahams: So much
richness in that response.

The thing that really resonated
with me is the you belong.

Your voice matters, and I, I hope
young women, young men, everybody

listens to that and takes that advice.

Question number two, who is a
communicator that you admire and why?

Chiney Ogwumike: The first person
that comes to my mind is Lisa Leslie.

Probably a deceptive pick or an
obvious pick 'cause I come from

the world of women's basketball.

But communication is not just what we say
verbally, it's how you carry yourself.

What are you communicating to the world?

You know, I think that's one of the
things that I didn't understand until I

had a platform and people look to me as
someone that they could aspire to be.

If I'm walking down the street, how
I carry myself is communication.

Just as much as me on the broadcast,
just as much as me playing on the court.

And so Lisa, in being able to have
her as a mentor, the way she carried

herself at the time, which was so huge
at the genesis of the WNBA, coming

off of the 96th Olympics, changed
the game for so many women in sports.

And then on top of it, to pivot into being
a mother, a sister, an entrepreneur, a

broadcaster, an entertainer, just an icon.

How you carry yourself matters
just as much as what you say.

And so I, I always shout her out.

Matt Abrahams: Lemme
ask our final question.

What are the first three ingredients that
go into a successful communication recipe?

Chiney Ogwumike: Preparation.

Authenticity.

And purpose.

Matt Abrahams: I love it.

Preparation, which doesn't surprise
me based on what you've talked about,

authenticity as well, and then having
a clear purpose in mind and certainly

you are somebody who is purpose driven.

Chiney, this has been phenomenal.

Thank you.

Not only did you teach a lot of players
lessons on the court, you teach a lot

of people lessons in your broadcasting.

Thank you.

Thank you for joining us
for another episode of Think

Fast Talk Smart, the podcast.

To learn more about leadership and
communication from sports stars, listen

to episode 166 with Andrew Luck and
episode 153 with Tara VanDerveer.

This episode was produced by Ryan
Campos and me, Matt Abrahams.

Our music is from Floyd Wonder.

With thanks to Podium Podcast Company.

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