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On Monday, The Chimes published “The idolization of marriage in Christian culture” by opinion writer Kelly Van Duine. Instead of an interview about current events, this special episode comes straight from the opinions desk as we welcome opinion writers Kelly Van Duine and Ashley Newman to the studio. Enjoy their conversation on how Christians should value marriage without idolizing it, and whether or not you should marry your camp crush.
For more details about this week's headlines: The First Hymn Project documentary, LA Summer Olympics 2028 venues, Blue Origin launch and Katy Perry, Harvard rejects Trump’s terms, Palm Sunday Gaza and Ukraine attacks, Nigerian church update
Creators and Guests
What is The Chimes Weekly?
Bite-sized podcast episodes with your top news stories from The Chimes, Los Angeles County, the nation and the world, with an interview with a Chimes writer to close out your week.
By Biola University students, for Biola University students. Previously known as Chimes Rundown and KBR Daily News Updates by KBR The Torch.
Hope Li: From The Torch Podcasting Network, this is The Chimes Weekly. I’m Hope Li, reporting from Biola University. It’s Good Friday, April 18.
Ashley Newman: It's a weird situation that we find ourselves in, like, trying to do something that is pointing towards permanence, while being in a transitory space that comes with a host of issues.
Hope Li: Last Friday, The Chimes published an opinion piece titled, “The idolization of marriage in Christian dating culture.” It highlights a phenomenon you may already know, “ring by spring.” Instead of an interview for this week’s episode, you’ll hear a conversation from The Chimes’ opinion desk, featuring Kelly Van Duine, who wrote the article, and Ashley Newman, an opinion writer you may remember from our episode on Biola’s D&I policies. But before that, let’s take a look at this week’s headlines.
On Monday, Biola’s Talbot School of Theology and the Malcolm Initiative hosted the world premiere of the First Hymn documentary. In the film, Dr. John Dickson of Wheaton College leads viewers through the discovery of the First Hymn and its creative revival by Christian artist Chris Tomlin and songwriter Ben Fielding, who wrote Hillsong Worship’s “What a Beautiful Name,” and “Mighty to Save,” among other songs. Dickson and Fielding joined Talbot dean Dr. Ed Stetzer on the stage for a Q&A following the event. Former Hillsong United singer Taya Gaukrodger closed the night with Fielding, as the Biola community sang the hymn for the first time corporately since it was discovered. The First Hymn, released by Chris Tomlin is now out anywhere you listen to music.
The White House froze more than $2.2 billion in federal funding to Harvard University, after the world's wealthiest university rejected a list of demands from the Trump administration on Monday. The demands included ( but weren’t limited to) eliminating all DEI programs, auditing faculty for viewpoint diversity, and tightening restrictions on international students. While Harvard is not the first university to receive such a mandate, it is the first to respond so defiantly. For more information on Trump’s conflict with Harvard and other universities, see our show notes.
Hope Li: Venues for the 2028 Summer Olympics are slowly being selected in Los Angeles, including places such as the Dodgers Stadium in LA, the Honda Center in Anaheim, and Venice Beach. Various sports will make their Olympic debut such as squash while baseball will make its comeback this year, after it missed the 2024 Paris Olympics.
Katy Perry (singing): Baby you’re a firework, come on let your colors burst, make ‘em go awe, awe, awe …
Hope Li: Many of us may remember feeling like a plastic bag drifting through the wind, wanting to start again. We sang about that in 2010, thanks to pop singer Katy Perry. On Monday, Katy Perry joined five other women on a trip to space and back, and sang Louis Armstrong’s “What a Wonderful World” on the trip. Here’s what she had to say about it when she returned:
Katy Perry: I feel super connected to love. So connected to love.
Hope Li: An autonomous rocket from Blue Origin, which is owned by Amazon founder Jeff Bezos, successfully conducted the 10-minute flight, which also included Bezos’ fiance Lauren Sanchez and journalist Gayle King. The company didn’t disclose how much the flight cost, but reserving a seat on its website requires $150,000 as a refundable deposit.
This week, we celebrated Palm Sunday with our brothers and sisters around the world. This Sunday was also unfortunately a day in which many Christians experienced violence and suffering. We’ll continue to pray for believers and remember those suffering during this Holy Week. Here are this week’s international headlines.
The only Christian hospital in Gaza was destroyed in a strike by the Israel Defense Forces on Palm Sunday. According to the BBC, the al Ahli Arab Hospital was also the last fully-functioning hospital in Gaza City. The hospital was run by the Episcopal Diocese of Jerusalem, which is part of the Anglican church. The IDF targeted the hospital, stating that it contained a Hamas control center. Dozens of patients were forced to flee, and one child died due to head injuries during the rushed evacuation process.
A Russian strike in Sumy, Ukraine killed 34 people and injured 117 on Sunday. The Kyiv Independent, Ukraine’s largest English-language news outlet, quoted President Volodomyr Zelenski saying, “Enemy missiles hit an ordinary city street, ordinary life: houses, educational institutions, cars on the street ... And this is on a day when people go to church: Palm Sunday.” Terms for a ceasefire between Russia and Ukraine are still under negotiation in Washington DC.
Violence against Christians in Nigeria continues to escalate. An attack on a Christian farming community in North-Central Nigeria occurred late Sunday night. 40 people were killed in the massacre by Muslim Fulani militants, who have destroyed over 300 homes and displaced 3,000 people since March, according to the Christian Broadcasting Network. Several homes were set ablaze with people still inside. Local authorities reported that these kinds of attacks have become increasingly common, causing people to live in fear. Jeff King, president of International Christian Concern told CBN, “Most Americans have no idea what’s going on in Nigeria, but imagine this: for the last 20 years, probably up to about 100,000 Christians have been murdered.”
To follow the situation in Nigeria, visit OpenDoors.com to read the latest reports.
That’s all for this week’s headlines. Next is a conversation between Kelly Van Duine and Ashley Newman, both opinion writers at The Chimes. They’ll share perspectives about Christian dating culture and marriage in light of Kelly’s most recent article with a deck that reads, “a skewed conception of marriage may be leading Christians to get married significantly younger than secular populations.” Producer Thomas Rahkola hosted this conversation. Take it away, Thomas.
Thomas Rahkola: Thanks Hope. As has been said, I'm joined by two Chimes opinion writers. Could I have you both introduce yourselves?
Ashley Newman: Yeah, my name is Ashley Newman.
Kelly Van Duine: And my name is Kelly Van Duine.
Thomas Rahkola: We’re joined by them for a conversation about Kelly’s recent Chimes article on the idolization of marriage in Christian culture. So I’ll let you guys both take it away.
Ashley Newman: Yeah. So I read this article, and I was immediately like, like, I have so many questions that are coming up, mostly agreeing with what is said. I initially read it, and I was like, I don't agree with this, or not with this, but with a couple of things that were stated. And then I reread it a couple of times, and I was like, no, actually, Kelly's a good writer, and she's anticipating my questions, so that's why I wanted to do this interview. And Kelly agreed. So I'm really excited for this.
Kelly Van Duine: Yeah, I'm really excited. This is a topic I'm pretty passionate about. So, yeah.
Ashley Newman: I can tell. So in the article, you begin it by saying in a quote, I always believe that the biggest decision I would ever make in life would be getting married and having a child. End quote. So you introduce the article this way, and then you talk about the dangers of idolizing marriage. And I thought it was interesting, because it feels like you're almost kind of saying what she had said later on, which is, oh, marriage can be really idolized in Christian circles. So I'd love to ask, How is valuing marriage in the way that you do, in the way that you talk about in this article, different from idolizing marriage?
Kelly Van Duine: So yeah. Kind of what I meant when I said that like marriage is, like the most important decision that I thought I would ever make is I think that a marriage changes your life more than any other decision you could make, I think it changes your life. Financially, changes your life logistically, it changes it emotionally, socially, even relationally, because you kind of start like a new family, and it's also probably one of the hardest decisions, I would say, like to back out of essentially, because even if you get divorced, that person is still like a huge part of your life, especially if you share a child together, and a child is forever. So I think unlike other decisions, like maybe taking a certain job or even moving to a state or changing majors, like there is no other decision that I think affects your life the same level of like complexity as getting married. So yeah, and then something I've noticed for sure, I think, in Christian dating culture, that obviously I kind of talked about your article, was that I think it's idolized and by like, idolized. I think people prioritize simply, like, the principle of getting married over what it actually means to, like, commit yourself to somebody else, and also, like de prioritizing other things in order, like, to get married, and like, especially deep prioritizing things that I think are very important to, like, decision of getting married. And not everybody has to go get a four year college degree and have a high paying job and then get married. Not everybody does life like in that order, like, it's different for everybody, but kind of maybe jumping into marriage without, like, being Finance. Prepared, or even thinking about that aspect of it, or kind of like, I always think it's like, oh, they want to play house, kind of like, it's exciting. It's like, the notion of getting married, getting married, versus actually, like, understanding like that marriage. It's, it is, like, I kind of talked about how it's like a personal death, in a way, like you do lose a part of yourself, because it's not like, oh, I need to have all this freedom and I want to be single forever, but you are like, submitting yourself to somebody else and saying you're going to commit to them for the rest of your life. And that is like a sacrifice in itself. And so I think some people just kind of want to get married because it's exciting and it's fun, and not really take into account like, how serious and big decision it is, especially as a Christian, because to us, there's like a whole other level of complexity to it, because we have a spiritual aspect to it. It's not just like a legal binding so, yeah.
Ashley Newman: Yeah, that’s a great answer. Something that I talked about recently with a professor. We were talking about his kid, and he was talking because he is recently a dad of his kid is two and a half years old, and we were talking about what that experience was like for him. And he was using an allegory of a monk. And this monk had said, like, if I'd known how hard it was to be a monk, I wouldn't have done it. Like, if I could somehow have known how difficult this was. Then I probably wouldn't have done it, but now that I'm in it, this is the most valuable and best decision I could have ever made, and he was talking about that in the concepts of having kids and how difficult it is. And something you talk about in your article is how there's a need to have a a clear understanding of this death, this self death that you face in marriage, and something I want to ask, and I don't know if I can phrase this quite clearly, but it seems like there's also a need for a little bit of idealism to get married. Because if I think if most people understood just how difficult marriage was, which none of us in this room, as far as I know, have been married before. So, like, there's almost a need to idealize it in order to commit to something so crazy. Yeah. So like, how do you, I guess, balance those two things, yeah, yeah. What do you think?
Kelly Van Duine: Yeah, no, I think that's really interesting that you say that, because I feel like that happens a lot in life. Like I was thinking even, like having a kid, like you think, oh, having a baby is really exciting, but it's actually really hard. Or even just going through, like, a pregnancy and childbirth is really hard. Or, like, for me, I was like a caregiver for five years for my grandmother, and it was like, and I think about that a lot, where I'm, like, if I had known how hard it was going to be, I would have been, like, too scared to do it, but it was, like, the most, like, transformative experience of my life. So, like, definitely, like, marriage is kind of similar, like, maybe there's always going to be a little bit of, like, a fairy tale aspect to it. Like, there's always going to be excitement. I think I worry a little bit about, like, maybe Christians who, like, jump into marriage, like they idealize it, like, too much, yeah, where they're not even, like, willing to encounter or like, overcome obstacles, like they expect it to be a breeze, kind of. And there's always going to be a growth aspect to marriage. You're never going to be able to anticipate everything that's thrown your way. You know, I've heard about couples who get married and they'll like, oh, a car will die out on them, and the first year, they'll have to, like, fix up something in their house. It'll drain their savings, like stuff, and life will always happen like that, you know. Or even, like, couples that go through infertility or miscarriages, like things that are, like, really hard, yeah. And so I do, I think I do agree that, like, maybe there has to be, like, an idealized side to it, to kind of want to get married. Because I think if everybody knew how hard marriage was going to be, or maybe if you knew everything that was going to happen in your life before it happened, there's so many things that like you would be scared to do. And I think I think, like I was saying that, I think Christians just need to not jump into it, like with an unwillingness, like to deal with obstacles. Because I feel like I see so many couples that break up married or not married over just kind of, like trivial things, like, they just can't deal with any conflict or anything that goes wrong. And so you do need to go in knowing that things will be hard and unexpected, things will and can't happen. So I think it's a tough balance, but I think hopefully people have more of a practical idea of it and less of like an idealized idea of it. But no, I definitely agree, yeah.
Ashley Newman: Yeah. And I think maybe, or something I was thinking about as you were answering this question, is we live specifically in violet, in a culture that really idealizes marriage. So maybe if we lived in a culture that really, I don't know, was disparaging of marriage, we would be writing articles of another bent, or you would be writing articles of another bent. So this is something. So this is a question that I think relates to our conversation, where you say, and I quote, students have also felt, yes, sorry. Let me re quote that students have also felt that among Christian groups, a willingness to wait patiently for marriage is perceived as an inability to commit oneself to a serious relationship. And I think there's something about like waiting even that speaks to that obstacle language that you were using if people weren't even willing to wait. And I see this a lot, and I think that the majority of the time, this is toxic and produces really unhealthy marriages, or marriages that, at least, like really have to fight for it for the first, like two or three years that they're together. But something I've also realized kind of as I've been I'm in my junior year here, so I've seen a lot of seniors around me getting engaged, yeah, but I've also seen some people who are getting engaged, who barely know each other, which I feel really conflicted about. So I've also realized that sometimes it's that Christians are actually just way more serious about the romantic relationships that they engage in, and that there are heavier strains on those relationships, on dating relationships, specifically, then when it comes to maybe a non Christian relationship, so for example, having to be abstinent, you have to live separately, living separately, even when you're thinking about graduating, right? Like, it's like, I don't want to sign a lease if we're gonna get married in the next like half a year, right? Yeah. So I think, like, that's a weird strain that comes generally a greater desire for children and to kind of have a family life together. So all of those are strains that are on Christian dating relationships, specifically. So how does this kind of like factor into that art to your argument?
Kelly Van Duine: Yeah, I think it's really tricky being at like, a Christian university, because the university in itself places so much emphasis on, like, personal accomplishment and like kind of, you know, channeling your future career and where you want to go. So so many people end up, like, going their own ways after college. And so when you're in a serious relationship in college, you know, there's kind of this, like, push and pull of, Oh, what if I get accepted to school, or I get a job, you know, somewhere in another state, and my partner, you know, doesn't or ends up going somewhere else, I think, something that, like, personally for me, like I wouldn't want to date in college because of that, Like, I would worry that I would be compromising either my relationship or, like, my future career goals, and kind of be caught between the two. And so that's, like, always been something, like, I came to college later, like, I'm 25 almost 26 and so I definitely, like, had that perspective on it, that, like, yeah, it's really tricky to date in college. I just think it's a hard thing to navigate because, like, at a Christian university, we're gonna value those things. We're gonna value, you know, a career and getting ahead, or some kind of passion, whatever it is that we want to pursue with our degree. But the same time like this is like, especially as Christians, like, we're in a dating pool of, like, other Christians, so I think it's, like, really intriguing to, like, find a partner like in this setting. So I think if I were to, like, give advice to like, juniors and seniors getting engaged, it would just be like, really assess, like, your future and what you both want out of your future, and you might have to make compromises for each other too. Like, maybe you'll have to move to another state because your partner got a job there, or something like, job there, or something like that. And so I think it's a tough one to navigate. But I also worry about young Christians getting engaged and tying the knot in order to, like, kind of secure their relationship before graduation, and not really anticipating what life might look like if they do it too soon. I think is something that I have a little bit concerned about, yeah.
Ashley Newman: Yeah. I mean, and that's something that has been a conversation with me and my longtime boyfriend, because we've only dated in college, which is this weird, like, half camp life, half University, like it's not real life. So we've had conversations like, Oh, I hope that over the summer we can live, like, semi regularly and in the same area and not just do long distance, so that we can actually experience some of this, like real life time, because it is just a weird, like, it's a weird situation that we find ourselves in. It is and like, trying to do something that is pointing towards permanence while being in a transitory space. Yeah? Like that comes with a host of issues, yeah, and questions. I guess I'll ask this question. How do you what do you think of casual dating? Because I actually am a big fan of casual dating. I think. People should go on casual dates, because I think it's kind of a really good way to get to know each other. And I hate the talking stage, oh yeah. Like, I hate that. That's kind of like a new stage in our dating vocabulary. I'm not a fan, but that's personal opinion. What do you like? How do you think of casual dating? Because you'd said, Oh, well, as Christians, we shouldn't casual date. So I'm curious, how do you define it? First of all, because you and I probably thinking of different things.
Kelly Van Duine: Yeah, yeah. I know what you're saying. I think it depends on the intent. Like, I think casual dating means, like, I have no intention of this ever being serious or going anywhere, like, I was doing this, like, for fun, but I totally understand, like, casual dating. It's not like, Oh, you show up at the first date and you're like, we have to discuss, like, marriage and how many kids we want to have. Like, that's contract, yeah, like that. I mean, I think that does happen in in Christian circles a little bit. And so it's like, definitely, like, the first day. I think should always be casual. You are you do need to get to that person. And I think it takes at least a year to really get to know somebody. Like, I think you can, like, even start going out with somebody, and you just, you start to learn that person over time. Like, I think it doesn't happen maybe as fast as some Christians or circles think that it does. It just takes so long to get to know that person. And even in college, it's such a time of like, growth as well. Like, I see my I've seen myself grow, grown a lot over the last few years, and I'm older than most graduates here, so yeah, now I think it's just making sure that you have a good intention when you're going on these casual dates, and not like, basically wasting that person's time, essentially, oh, it's just for fun, or maybe they're going out of obligation, like, it's like, oh, I'm kind of interested in this person. I'd be curious to see where this goes, but I need to get to know them first. I think it's like my version of casual dating. But there's also, like, the hook up version of casual dating, like it's just for fun. And I think as Christians, we shouldn't really do that, because you don't want to objectify the person either.
Ashley Newman: So yeah, yeah, that's a really good answer. And I think that's a really good separation of when people say casual dating, they mean some very different things.
Kelly Van Duine: Yes, yeah, in secular culture, for sure.
Ashley Newman: Oh, yeah, totally, totally. And I think again, that's kind of reflective of me having lived in Biola for the last like three years.
Kelly Van Duine: Biola bubble is real.
Ashley Newman: Yeah. And being like, oh, casual dates means just like going on dates and seeing if you want to keep on dating this person, whereas that might not be what other people come into the conversation with, so I guess something that your your article is trying to attack, which is a extremely difficult question, and that I think the Christian American Christian culture has tried to attack with, like purity culture with weird like different other cultures that have come in. And this is this question, which is, what does it take to live healthily in a culture, a Christian culture that highly values marriage and family life while not idolizing marriage? Yeah, yeah. I don't know what is like your initial kind of response to that?
Kelly Van Duine: Yeah. And I think it's a really hard balance, and I think it's something that I've just also continuously grappled with, and something that, like, I wanted to, like, put in my article, like I wrote about this my article, but I attended a, like, a Protestant church over the summer, and I went to an adult group, and so I was 25 and then I was the oldest person by quite a bit. Like, I think the second old person was like 23 and they were all married, and I was like, the only unmarried person there. And I was also like, the only person with a four year degree. And not that there's anything like wrong with not going to college. I mean, there's a lot of non traditional ways of going about things. And I think I was just like, I feel like, in this day and age, I shouldn't be the only unmarried person at 25 years old. Like that seems way too young. And I just saw like, in this particular church, like so many really fast marriages, like, within a couple of months, people were getting engaged and then getting married, like, a few weeks later, and there's like, and If to them, it was like, so normal. And each church is also its own bubble. In the same way that Biola is a bubble, I think that happens a lot in Christian culture. So I think kind of like I was saying earlier, it's like knowing that marriage is a good thing. Because I think we've seen in secular culture that, like less people are getting married, and they almost make marriage sound more like a burden than it is, like a gift. So you don't want to have that view of it either. But I think it's also understanding it's not necessarily always a fairy tale or like playing house, and it's not it's not going to be easy, it's going to be hard. And so I think a healthy view means making sure you also, like, really know that person really well. And you don't want to have an idealized image of that person either, like, it's totally okay for your partner to have flaws, but, um, if you just think, Oh, my partner is completely perfect. And you know, like, that's not realistic either, like, You're marrying a person, and you're marrying all of their baggage and all their flaws, and I always say you're marrying their in laws too, because they become your family. Like, it's such a complicated decision. I mean, you're five. Finances become one a lot of the times you're gonna move, whether it's into a house or a new apartment, you might move cities or states. I mean, your whole Your whole life changes. Because when you wake up in the morning, it's no longer just about you, it's about you and your partner, or maybe you and your partner and your child. Like is this, your whole life completely changes. And so I think having a healthy view is knowing both the upsides and the downsides of marriage without being scared of those things. Because, like, you were kind of saying, Well, if you're too scared and people aren't going to get married. And I think that's what's happened in secular culture a little bit. People see so much divorce, they see so many relationship problems, and they're just like, You know what, I don't want to get involved in that mess. And you know, raising kids is also really hard. And as your kids get older, I think it gets harder to raise them as they grow into adults. And so people are like, Well, I just wanna have kids. I don't wanna deal with that. And not understanding that marriage is great, it's also really hard, and it's also a growth process. And so I think just a healthy view is knowing that things might come up and it might be hard. And also, I think recognizing that I know, like, you know, Christians have a hard time with divorce, but you also don't want to stay in a very unhealthy marriage because you're afraid of divorce, especially in cases of like abuse or maybe even infidelity or things like that. So I think having a healthy view kind of, kind of repeating myself a little bit. But it's both understanding the positives and negatives of marriage while trying to prepare yourself as much as you can. You won't be ever like perfect and totally ready for marriage, but at least, you know, kind of saying, Okay, I, you know, roughly, financially independent. I feel like I'm more emotionally mature now and I'm ready to take on this next step in my life.
Ashley Newman: Yeah, yeah. And I think something that you're getting at is that the at least, I would say, is, is the true value of marriage actually lies a lot in those really difficult spots, yeah? And I mean, the same with pretty much any really good thing is that, like one of the true for university, for example, one of the true goods of university is that you are put in such a difficult position that forces you to become kind of like greater than you would be, yeah, without it. And and I think that if you truly value marriage, then it takes recognizing those really difficult spots, yeah, and it takes even desiring those really difficult things. Yeah. Something else that came to mind while you were talking was how there's, I'm a psych major, so there's, I'm reading my psych textbook, but the these different kinds of attraction, and how one is kind of what we would consider maybe romantic attraction, which is just mainly physiological attraction, yeah? And it's quick and really fun and intense and heavy. But then there's also this, like companionship attraction, yeah? And that's much more steady and firm and warm, yeah, and takes a lot longer to build. And something I really worry about hearing about this Protestant church you went to where everybody was getting married, is like, I don't know if you'd know if this is someone you want to be friends with, right?
Kelly Van Duine: Yeah. It's like, don't get married to honeymoon stage ever.
Ashley Newman: No, that's terrible advice. That's being like, Oh, you could make it. You could make this decision drunk. Like, no, you can't. You're inebriated, right? That's, there's a reason we have the phrase drunk with love, yeah, yeah. You're not in the right headspace to be making, um, life altering decisions, yeah, which is not to say that those marriages will all fail, or there aren't good marriages that come out of places like that, but, but I see what you're saying. And I think even with the divorce thing, you're still emphasizing that value, which is like, if we really value marriage, and we want to protect it. We want good marriages, and we want marriages that are doing what they're supposed to be doing, which is being fruitful and good and full of life. Are there any questions that came up for you during this time, or something that you wish we talked about?
Kelly Van Duine: I guess you brought up something. You were saying that, like, you've seen a lot of couples like getting engaged, like junior, senior year. And you know the professor I interviewed, Professor grace, he kind of for this article. He made it sound like, ring by spring. Doesn't happen that much, but I feel like it does. He kind of cited like the like illusory, like correlation. Like, you see it happen a couple times. You assume like, it happens a lot. And I was just wondering, like, specifically in Biola culture, like, do you think that like, ring by spring is prevalent, or like, is it, I don't want to call it a problem, but does it occur?
Ashley Newman: You know, I would say that almost so. So to answer kind of your the first part of your question, which is, like, does it occur? I think it does more than I would assume in like a secular university, one of my friends had said, like, his brother goes to UCLA, and he was, like, nobody would consider getting engaged here. Or like, it's just so crazy that so many people are in committed dating relationships, even so, I think it does happen more than at a secular university. That being said, I think the illusory correlation is real and definitely like self confirming. So even thinking about the seniors I know who have gotten engaged, like, compared to the class they're in, it's not that many to be like, Oh, half of everybody is getting engaged, right, right, um, but it is more than I would assume most spaces are, um. And then I'd say, like, I've actually been surprised by how unproblematic I found it actually okay, yeah, which has been a change, a shift for me. I was really not a big fan of ring by spring when I first came here, yeah, and I don't know if it's just because, like, I know healthy couples.
Kelly Van Duine: Yeah, you're right.
Ashley Newman: Like, maybe I just know all the good couples on campus, yeah, and I also am not. I'm in kind of more, I don't know how to say this without sounding like I'm like, hoity, toity. But I'm not really in spaces where, like, people are just getting married for the sake of getting married, right? Like everyone I know has been dating for a while, right? Right? And, like, it's been very clear that they're gonna get married. Um, so I don't know. I've become less. I've felt less and less that ring by spring is a problem. But that also could just be because I'm like, I'm traveling in in circles where people are are in healthy relationships.
Kelly Van Duine: Yeah, I definitely think it's not as prevalent at Biola as maybe other Christian universities.
Ashley Newman: Oh, totally, oh my gosh.
Kelly Van Duine: Like, I just something that, like, I didn't know about it, like, before I came here, and I didn't see it too much when I came here, but like, I knew it happened. And then, like, my experience also, like, I just saw couples getting married, like, really young, really fast. And I was like, this doesn't happen in other circles. Like, why is it happening here? And is it always a good thing that people act like it is? And so that was really my, you know, kind of, especially coming here a little bit older, and not feeling like the need to, like, date or get engaged. Like, I was like, why are all these people who are, like, three, four years younger than me, like, get engaged? So yeah.
Ashley Newman: And it still feels surreal. Like, to be honest, even as someone who I do think most people are getting engaged for good reasons, or the people I know in my life, I should clarify that the people I know, it seems like they're getting engaged for good reasons. It feels surreal like, it feels like, in some ways, like we are kids playing dress up, which is not to say people shouldn't be getting engaged, right? But it is to say, like, there is this kind of, like unreality of we're yeah, there's this major step of adulthood, and a lot of us are kind of in this weird non adult stage of being in college, yeah, that people are deciding to make sometimes for very good reasons, yeah, but it's complicated, and it's really hard to know if that's the right thing to do, yeah?
Kelly Van Duine: Because, like, being in college is, like, being on your own, but not really. Like, my mom always tells me, it's, like, yeah, you got a place, or, like, you know, an apartment kind of, but, like, usually your parents pay for it, or a lot of stuff is provided by the University. Like, it's not real life, but it feels like real life. So I think people think, Oh, I'm independent now, I'm ready for all of this. And you don't want to be, like, disillusion, disillusioned, like, from reality. Essentially, both is within, you know, being independent and getting married. So yeah,
Ashley Newman: I think the best way, like, I've heard Biola to be understood, is, like, a Christian Bible camp, yeah, like it's extended summer camp, which has its ups and downs, of course, like extended summer camp, and I don't know, I don't know if you want to marry your camp crush all the time, but maybe you do. I don't know. It'll work out. Yeah, who knows? Yeah. Good article, Kelly
Kelly Van Duine: Thank you.
Thomas Rahkola: Thanks for joining me, guys, and having such a thoughtful conversation. If you enjoyed this conversation, but you haven’t read Kelly’s article—you really should! You can find it at the chimesnewspaper.com or the link in our show notes. And you can also read other articles by Kelly and Ashley from The Chimes’ opinions desk on our website. They’ve written some really interesting stuff this semester. Thanks again for coming in today, guys.
Kelly Van Duine: Thank you having us.
Ashley Newman: Thank you for having us.
Hope Li: Thanks for listening! As always, if you enjoyed this episode, leave us a review and share it with a friend or a roommate. To read Kelly’s article and more stories from The Chimes, see our show notes, or head over to our website at ChimesNewspaper.com.
This episode was produced and hosted by myself, with headlines written by me, Reagan Glidewell, Thomas Rahkola and Izah DeFigh. This episode was engineered by Jason Lee. Our theme music is from Warner Chappell Productions. Our executive producer is myself. I’m Hope Li, Good Friday to you, and we’ll see you all next week.