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Welcome to Your Art Is A Spell, the podcast that ignites inspiring and transformative conversations about art as a magical practice. I'm your host, Edgar Fabián Frías—a multi-passionate artist, witch, therapist, and proud mutant shape-shifter. My art spells have reached audiences through social media, billboards, and skyscrapers and have even been placed on the surface of the moon! Join us as we explore how reclaiming your unique artistic voice and embracing bold creativity can transform your life and the world around you. Subscribe to the podcast and sign up for our newsletter at www.yourartisaspell.com to stay connected!
welcome your art is a spell and it will change
your life and the world around you welcome or
welcome back to Your Art is a Spell my name is
Edgar Fabian Frias and today we're going to be
speaking with the Paris-based visual artist Anne
Horel who is an incredibly prolific artist who has
made art all over the world her artwork has been
exhibited in galleries museums and on millions and
millions of people's personal devices via social
media and the internet she's a pioneer in using
multiple technologies and emerging tech in her art
she's also someone who's incredibly courageous in
terms of the mediums that she connects with and
integrates into her practice everything from dance
and performance to making GIFs and videos and now
AI-generated movies and is not afraid to dive deep
into her art practice and to bring together
witchcraft magic and a love of animals and
veganism pop culture witchy aesthetics and post
internet art glitch so much more weaves it all
together in her work and I'm so excited for you
all to tune into this conversation between myself
and the artist Anne Horel welcome to your art is
a spell Anne I'm so happy to be connecting with you
today you are such a gift to this world your art
is so important and I'm so honored to highlight
your creative practice and your contributions
to the world and would love for you to share a
little bit about your background um how you got
into art making knowing that you are someone who
is so prolific i would just love to hear a little
bit about your origins and for you to share with
our audience um a little bit about who you are
okay um first of all thank you for having me it's
uh I'm really happy to be here and to share
this moment with you you are uh one of the
dearest person on earth i I really really deeply
uh appreciate you so so thank you for having me
thank yeah the feeling is so mutual and then I
had a dream about you yesterday so yes yes we're
always connecting in the astral realms we really
we really are i think we are building stuff uh in
the in the in different realms the digital the
physical the dream realm uh and it's all being
connected so a little bit of my background um
it's it's it's an interesting question because
it always changes the way I present myself but
to be as short as possible so I'm French i'm
based in Paris i was born in France and I moved
around uh France my entire childhood so I'm like
kind of like um I have like a nomadic uh blood or
something like that i think this is the root of my
very experimental way of approaching life i love
trying new things i like being challenged by um
technologies in like in particular um uh digital
technologies in my work from like an artistic
background i did art school but I don't think this
is what makes you an artist i think it started
way earlier and I've always been drawing when I
was a kid i wanted to be a mangaka obsessed with
Japanese culture and then at this moment I wanted
to fit in some kind of like family mold so I went
into uh literature and philosophy studies i was
miserable and so I started doing art studies and
uh I graduated in 2011 and ever since it's been
like experimenting at the at this this moment
uh Facebook was uh like in 2009 or something
2008 2009 I was experimenting with MySpace and
Facebook so it was like already the origin of like
uh being around digital tools deeply rooted into
uh TV culture uh like pop culture and um and yeah
that's That's it in in a nutshell yeah so that's
like where you started and you know I'm curious
like you know about your um impulse to share
work on social media um how did that start like
especially because I know that you've um been in
different social media platforms and you're known
across multiple social media platforms and I'm
curious like how did that start and like what was
your initial impulse to share your work that way
i don't really know like I know that I got
really into um I had like the intuition that
something was going on and that something was
something really big was happening with the
rise of social media and I remember um after like
a like a breakup I was kind of reconnecting with
my creativity because it was a very um like
we were very uh uh how do we say that like
very like together glued together and it like
so like Facebook was um coming out as at this
moment and and then I was like trying to figure
out my way with like outside of this relationship
and I started being really really interested in
into Facebook and how the community uh aspect
of Facebook and how people were making groups at
the time and that you could make groups for pretty
much anything like I have two arms or I like cats
or something like it could be like something very
random and also things very funny and then I
was like this this is like this is so cathartic
IC and this is therapeutic to connect with people
from all over the world around things that are
like basic but also things that can be really
profound and things that can help us to just
laugh about stuff and so I started collecting
these group names and be like "Oh maybe I will
make a book or something with that." And one day
we had um at school the art school we had um sound
workshop and um I was like I don't know if I want
to do sound and I I had a friend she was like yeah
do something it's it will take you out of your
comfort zone and I was like okay let's try it
and I used all of the Facebook names as lyrics for
song and so I recorded a song and then I started
posting this on YouTube and it it didn't like blow
up like in a sense that we know today it was like
back in 2009 so it was like a long it feels like
the prehistorical time of social media you know
uh but it did well and uh I got some attention
and I started doing gigs and stuff like I started
to do like performance art but also it was was a
moment where everything converged and making music
was a way to write a way to perform where a way
to um create an avatar as well like create like
a digital presence there was like an epiphany
like oh I can do all of this and making video
video as well like music videos and it was like
just gathering everything and also I'm pretty
introvert so it put me out of my comfort zone as
well to perform and be out there and like you know
dancing in like tutu and stuff like that it was so
like I couldn't do that today either like it's but
yeah this is this is how it started i'm really
hearing that it was you know very organic as as
it emerged and also like you were being inspired
and really leaning into like like the collective
aspect and also I'm hearing there's an element of
like identity right where you started to really
explore your own sense of self your relation
to the world and like taking those little risks
right and trying things out and I love hearing
about how your nomadic background really comes
into play here because I know that you're someone
who you know because of the way that social media
is and also technology is you've had to navigate
moving around a lot and I know you know one of
your first like big platforms was Vine and as we
all know Vine is no longer here it's been gone for
a long time but I know that that's like not the
only one right so I'm like I'd love to hear from
you about that experience both with Vine but also
knowing that as an artist you have to navigate so
much change yeah and it's um it's something really
interesting because it was I learned something the
hard way with Vine um because I was still I
was younger than now and to and less mature
than today obviously but it was back in 2014 and
Vine shut down in 2017 so it was like three years
of experimenting with a platform where I I got
to find a community i'm still friends like some
of my best friends I met them on Vine and um I
I don't I don't I think like if I take the story
like I wouldn't have met you without Vine like
because like out of uh consequences of Vine and
um so I find my people and then I met them
in real in real life and my community built
like it was I had a huge following on Vine i had
like 240,000 followers and it wasn't overnight
of course it it just like built up over time but
when Vine announced that they were shutting down
I was like "Okay my empire is collapsing and it
made me like I went through a crisis that was
uh like a a chrysalis i went into my apartment shut
down everything watched as many documentaries as I
could took some notes trying to reflect about like
what's the purpose of all of that like because you
know with social media you can lose touch with
reality and especially in terms of like numbers
and like people are just like like the numbers of
followers and it's like a social thing and it's
like it's like the wealth is like uh mirrored like
the social problems and crisis are like mirrored
in like different like social media is the mirror
of society obviously but it It was really intense
and I wrote a manifesto after that about like
how like the what does it mean to have so many
followers and if you have a voice on social media
you have to use it like it's your duty to use it
as a catalyst or like something that uh take a
stand for things that are important and because
otherwise it's just like an egoomaniac thing and
it makes today it makes me it just makes me sick
i and it's also feeding the capitalist algorithm
and it's feeding some values that I don't agree
with and I don't want to feed and so it was like
okay I'm losing all of that but also I'm gaining
um a form of like maturity and wisdom about like
social media and it's not and it was just like a
shift like I don't care about numbers anymore my
value isn't made by numbers of likes or whatever
like and um and yeah that's that was the the
lesson of Vine and that your work can dis like
who are like who are we like you have like a
million followers on Instagram tomorrow like
the servers of Instagram blow up like who are
you right you know and what have you done Yeah
yeah and speaking of Instagram I know that you've
just had another huge huge loss on Instagram do
you want to share a little bit about that yeah so
starting in 2019 I I began to make AR filters
uh with um so Snapchat Tik Tok and um Instagram
have their own software uh where you can build
your own filters and I started and I was kind
of like into after this crisis I just talked
about i had like another crisis because it was the
COVID time and um made me reflect on other stuff
and it was more personal so it was kind of like
going into like rebounds on uh shifts personal
shifts and um and creative shifts and everything
and I was kind of like getting a little bored
uh in my practice and I found AR and I was like
"Oh my god this is so exciting to learn something
new and also being able to make stuff that can
travel and people can wear on their face and
have fun with my filters with their face and just
like blow out burgers and like having like weird
uh alien looks." And it was so much fun and I
I made it for fun at at the at first but then
it got me attention from Meta directly and
from Snapchat and Tik Tok and it led me to
be a partner with them and um so it was great
like I I went to the Meta headquarters it was a
really interesting experience the opportunity was
incredible it was so interesting i I've learned so
much and I have like so much insight about that
and then uh without any notice they were like
okay we're shutting down the filters at Meta after
inviting the community at the headquarters and the
community is still pissed because some people have
built their whole business on it and some people are
still recovering some people don't recover from
that hopefully for me I've jumped into AI a little
bit before so I I'm like already somewhere else
um but the 130 filters I've made on Instagram
just disappeared and they were showcased at the at
an exhibition in September and I was and I said to
the curator I was like "This is the last time
that we are going to see that live." And I had
an email a few days ago from another curator and
she was like "Yeah can we I I saw this at the in
Belgium the other day and I would love to see that
again." And I was like "Oh my gosh wow not going
to happen." So it's and it's also speaking about
like how like the power of social media where
um you know the fine line between being a creator
and an artist and it feels like social media just
absorbed the whole thing and we had a conversation
about that with a friend the other day about how
social media has imprisoned artists because we
depend on them to have some visibility but at the
same time it's it's how we connect it's how we get
some inspiration um it's you know it's and it's
it's such conflicting because there are so many
good aspect about it but it's also so toxic and um
it's it's yeah it's complicated to navigate again
uh that Yeah I I couldn't agree more you know it's
it's such a wild wild thing that you would get
invited by Meta and that you would produce so
much art that as you said has been exhibited in
museums and galleries has been used by thousands
of people around the world and for all of that to
just be gone in one day and for those of you who
don't know about this this happened in February
I think of this year right um all all AR filters
the millions of AR filters and this is millions
of hours of people's labor people's artwork all
of it gone in just one day and so I you know and I
think you're speaking to this and I I would really
love to highlight you know one of the exhibitions
you've had in your career which was at the Palais de
Tokyo in Paris and I think you're really speaking
to this kind of blurry line between content and
art and as you said how social media has come in
and like usurped or like kind of taken over and
like imprisoned artists and I would love to hear
you talk a little bit about that exhibition and
also for you to share your reflections on yeah
this idea of content and art and like value and
hierarchy because I think these are also important
in conversations for us to have as artists there
are so many things to say about that um so the
Palais de Tokyo uh exhibition it was a an award i won
a prize um that was um like the prize was to be um
to have like a a fellowship for a year and I was
the only one making digital art so for the context
it was back in 2018 so it was right before NFT got
really big um and before that I had like about 10
years of uh digital practice and in contemporary
art digital art it was and at the moment was it's
still now but it's it's getting better but was
still like very niche and misunderstood and kind
of like it was like oh it's digital arts it's Fred
Forest or something you know like it was like
Right there were so many so uh little examples
um or not even speaking about women like like
invisible invisible um so back in the day like
it was it was kind of like bold to come with like
um a digital art uh based project and so it it
was the idea what the concept was to gather
26 artists around a manifesto the manifesto
that I wrote in my room with my post-it notes and my
documentaries uh when I had my vine crisis and
um I wanted to make uh an ABC and each artist that
I invited um mostly people were from Vine actually
uh but not all of them and some people were from
Giphy so there were some GIF artists some like uh
people making like a yoga content um so there were
like digital artists but also content creator and
this is where the the line is like I had someone
ask me today do you define yourself as a content
creator i'm like no I'm not a content creator i
don't create for social media i use social media
to broadcast my work and it's a complete different
logistic and state of mind and so I invited all of
these 26 people to uh create a video about that
letter so they all chose one letter to illustrate
the manifesto uh so we had like veganism we
had like inclusivity like all of these you
know values that we share and I'm sure that people
who are listening are also sharing obviously like
humanists values which is uh um something that we
need to uh protect as much as we can especially
today and um I will always remember the curator at
the opening in front of like a hundred journalists
And this is the like honest truth like not really
giving a [ __ ] about my project the entire time
because I think he didn't understand uh but he
also didn't want to in like get interested into
it i think uh he wasn't uh realizing that it was
a thing and it was just not not like an episode in
contemporary art it was something that it was
about to last and you know history has proven
that it's still there it's not going anywhere
right right and and and as you're saying and
like museums are starting to value it there it
actually the value of this whole field of work
is starting to be seen as relevant and important
as opposed to as you're saying a little blip right
it's about time like we've been waiting patiently
for years like it's about time but yeah he said
like in front of this journalists so here is
an and that's her project she invited uh 26
influencers and YouTubers and I was like my face
just melted and I was like okay he didn't he I'm
still I'm still having goosebumps just saying that
like he didn't understand that I wanted to take
out people from social media and put them where
they deserve in a museum like one of the biggest
museum in Paris and give them some recognition as
artists and as a movement and yeah that that was
the that was the purpose and that was that was
the project i just think about like how like in
the organic nature as artists we started to share
our work on social media and in some ways like
I've had moments of reckoning with this where I've
had to really understand that I got the messaging
that my digital art was not as valuable or not as
important as other types of art practices i know
a lot of people have felt this way there's still
maybe some of that sentiment in the world today
and in some ways you know when we think about
these platforms that can so easily lose millions
of works in you know one day you know we're
seeing that there still isn't an understanding
of how important digital art practice is and will
continue to be going forward and I feel like it's
so so important for us as artists to continue
talking about the value of the cultural process
that we're all experiencing and we know that art
has a long history and tendency to devalue or
diminish certain practices especially when they're
not maybe taken up by cis straight white men you
know that there's a way that certain practices
are seen as even like nuisances as annoying as
like not a part of the conversation but then 5 10
20 years pass and all of a sudden they get brought
into the cannon and they're really important
and so just wanting to share this as you know
we continue to move more into this conversation
because this is just a pattern that has repeated
itself we're seeing it again in today's moment
and yeah I I just I guess I would be interested
to hear your thoughts about this especially as you
are an artist Anne that is starting to work with AI
as an art practice and I know that AI has a lot
of that feeling too that it's trash that there's
no value in it and so I yeah I would love to hear
you talk a little bit about this idea of like art
being seen as trash or not valuable until you
know some person says that it is you know later
on in the future like who decides like honestly
who decides and the other day I saw something
online about um the national uh library in Paris
that actually downloaded from we had a a blog
um platform in France that was very popular at the
beginning of the internet called Sky Blog and it
was so kitsch and it's like it was like a um online
diary with like you know blingy GIFs and like
you know kitschy quotes on like sunset backgrounds
and stuff like that and I remember at the time
you know adults were like "This is like just like
a teenage stuff or whatever this is not serious or
whatever." And I think it's more like this um uh
look upon upon like "Oh yeah this this is youth."
So it's like "Oh it's like it's like it's a fling
it's nothing." Have you not been young like don't
you understand the pattern like it's like we
are evolving like whether you like it or not
we are evolving and the younger generations are
bringing some novelty and if we resist that we
are like missing the whole point of being a human
like in my opinion at least and um so the sky blog
thing uh there was this historian saying that he
downloaded everything and put it in the archives
of the library and he was like this is history
and whether you like blingy GIFs or like cute
quotes of Buddha on like sunsets or whatever it
is history and right when I whenever I think about
that that's and that's one one of the core thing
in my practice whenever I do something I always
try to mirror something about our society and
our language and I always project myself into
the future and what people from the future will
understand from our time looking at what we're
doing now exactly what we like we're doing in
archaeology today and most of the time we're
missing the point because we don't have enough
informations like we found out just a few years
ago that the Greek statues were colored and the
entire time we thought they were like white and we
can talk about that like so right yeah of course
they were white but and again who decided that
and it's like again like capitalist patriarchy
decided the narrative that we are living in and
now with digital tools we have the power to tell
the tell the stories the way they are and with the
dark things and the lighter things i mean it's
it's part of the whole thing you know and AI
coming into the conversation is like we could talk
about that like for obviously hours because it's
my favorite subject it's just Yeah it's I don't
I don't know where where to start actually yeah
no definitely yeah and we'll we'll definitely get
into that and I feel like yeah what you just said
is so important that you know there's a way in
which digital tools have been denigrated or seen
as less than or kitschy or you know not important
and at the same time they've given so many people
an outlet a way of feeling empowered a way of
being able to put yourself out there and to me
like I you know the conspiracy part of me really
thinks to myself like of course you're going to
make fun of or dismiss a technology a tool that
gives people power that makes people feel like
they're able to share more about themselves and
you know I have seen that in your work i know
that it's also been a part of my journey too that
you know these technologies as fraught as they are
as toxic as they might be in some ways they've
also made space for us to step deeper into our
power and I know that you and I also share a love
of magic and witchcraft and I'd love for you to
talk about how magic and witchcraft and energy
work moves into your practice especially because
you are the creator of a gorgeous gorgeous oracle
deck and I want to make sure that I link it in the
description of this episode so people could check
it out but I'd love for you to talk a little bit
about magic witchcraft how that intersects with
your practices i don't know if you will relate
with that but at some point in my practice I felt
conflicted i felt like I had to make a choice
between my witchy side and my artist side somehow
um and again it's it comes back to what we were
saying that some stuff aren't serious any enough
to and so it was just adding up like I'm making
digital art and it's not taken seriously and I'm
a witch and it's not taken seriously you helped a
lot with that actually with like just owning
the fact that art is magic and I think there
was a a switch when I met you and when we started
had conversation about that and when I starting
um u knowing your work and it was really inspiring
so I'm I'm really grateful about that um thank you
and I don't know it's I mean the the oracle is
a thing it was like something I always wanted to
do it's a a deck that it's the first deck I had
when I was 16 and it's like a very obscure like
the cards are very harsh the designs are very
medieval and I wanted to give it something more
light because it has so much power and it's
so accurate it never missed the point and I
wanted people and people get afraid of it which
I understand i actually dismissed it for years
because I was scared of it because it was too
accurate and because so much there is so much
power in this oracle and so I made I made the
like a version with like digital collage and now
um I think you're going to like this uh a lot
actually I am working on an exhibition right now
uh and it's at the Grand Palais Immersif it's a it's
an antenna of the Grand Palais which is another
big institute French institution in in in Paris and
they have an immersive space with like a 24 meter
uh screen and then a 11 m screen projection on
the on the floor so it's like a double Oh wow
the space is really really cool and they invited
me to uh to do something and uh the opening is
in in a few weeks and thinking about it I wanted
to do some like and the the whole exhibition is
AI so we are there is a program uh with I think
four or five artists and they are showing movies
uh films made with AI and I was like okay let's
cast a spell let's let's do it and so I used Chat
GPT to word the spells for like harmony peace so
that people can just like bring their burden and
just like deposit there and something that is like
about unity and the conversation around this with
Chat GPT again like goosebumps was so deep so deep
and I think you know Abracadabra you know like
words are spells i know that you know you know
that very well and it makes so much sense to use
AI as a magic spell like a magic practice because
of that because it's it's everything at the same
place like you create images with words and the
these images are fed with collective consciousness
because all of these images like all of this
knowledge has been gathered we are data like and
we don't own anything like I'm I'm done with this
like I don't I and I think the the principle of
ownership is at the core of like all of humankind
problems like if we can just like stop being like
this is mine and I need more and you know being
like okay this is collective knowledge this is
common ground and let's see what we can create
as a a collective like it's the opportunity to
do something with that and not use it as like a
tool of power or a like a tool of like control
and there is this um there is this dichotomy
when we talk about AI and there are a lot of
people who are like oh yeah it's all about the voc
vocabulary around AI and people are like yeah I'm
having more and more control about what I have as
an input and I'm like but creativity is not about
control it's like the opposite of it it's like
letting go and I love I love AI like the latent
space i love when AI is hallucinating i love that
there is a space for AI to be like hey what about
that and you being surprised welcoming something
that is like strange or uncanny or like different
and out of control h yeah there's so much here
that you're touching upon and I think I just want
to mention that the last episode we, my friend Lineadeluz and I, went to an exhibition that was all AI
generated and it was this artist named Jon Rafman
that I think you know Anne and he said he was there
and he was giving a talk and he was sharing how
AI is the perfect tool for our modernday moment
that we're living in where we've really lost as
a cultural consensus we've lost like consensual
reality where we used to share references like
books and movies and things that would tie us
all together that we've kind of lost that as
like a culture and that AI is like the perfect
tool because as you're saying it it it's creating
its own hallucinations its own imaginaries it's
pulling from multiple sources it's really tapping
into that collective and making something that
really speaks to like our disjointedness but also
our connectivity and I'm just really struck with
a positive like hope that you're putting into AI
knowing that so many artists so many people feel
so much fear and anger and confusion about AI and
I'm curious for you as someone who does see AI and
sees the possibility in it how do you like contend
with um you know AI still being connected to like
for-profit institutions or connected to people
that might have like not the best intentions is
there like a feeling that you have around how AI
might evolve or what you're hoping for AI to do
i feel like as human beings living in this time um
there is a contract that we have signed that there
are some stuff that we cannot control and that
we have to do to do with that and keep going with
that uh parameter and it's because this parameter
exists that we need to reappropriate the space the
social space the digital space all of the spaces
that we can because if we give up we lose and they
they win and they win everything but they win
everything with their narrative and um I think
nothing is always certain and you know the reality
is it's a work in progress and we were talking
about that right before um uh the recording
about uh the principle of ownership and be like
um okay so all of what I'm feeding to AI is going
to be data and is going to be in the hands of Sam
Altman and some politicians and oligarchs and
people and techno fieldism [ __ ] is it really
different from everything else i don't think so
uh yeah people are still using Instagram right and
meta and like those people are also part of that
technofudal oligarchy right right and I am not
going to stop using that because a handful of evil
people are using it for like making money again
like money is is one parameter and I don't know
it sounds like like um some some stuff that I'm
saying I feel like I feel I'm saying it from like
um a privileged position but I think that AI is
the the opportunity for us to let go of this idea
of ownership and be like okay nothing is permanent
this body is not permanent what matters is the
intention and we're going back to magic and the
intention that we're casting uh the energy that
we're putting into the things that we we're making
and the things that we are saying and the more
we practice this way and this is very Star Wars
uh thing like the more we practice the way the
more the energy is growing in this direction and
I know you know speaking like that sometimes I'm
like "Oh my god you're so delusional." But you
know it makes me feel better to think this way and
think about that that way and the the principle of
ownership and be like this is like I'm giving
up my data who I don't care like I don't care
like they know what I what I watch on Tik Tok okay
like I don't care like there is I have nothing to
to hide i watch cat videos and um and political
stuff and um and magic stuff and whatever and I
don't mind like I don't mind it's again it's
temporary and what will happen after I don't
know but what I know is what I can do now in the
present and putting as much consciousness in what
whatever I'm doing like casting the spells at
the Grand Palais Immersif that's that's my uh my take on that
and I've just been so in awe of the work that
you've been producing with AI the imaginaries the
hallucinations the spells that you've been casting
I'd love for you to talk a little bit about some
of the work that you've been creating recently
because it's so incredible i would love to share
here if you're watching this on YouTube i'm going
to try to put a couple of images for you to see
some of Anne's incredible artwork that she's been
creating with AI i would love for to hear your
um relationship with AI as an artist now and like
what you've been working on so most recently I've
been in into narrative before I was mostly making
visuals and the narrative was implicit but now I'm
um I'm making my characters telling stories
and one of the most recent project is
um I'm rewriting fairy tales and they're called um
the woke tales um and it's like it's not something
that I'm not inventing anything like there
there was like analysis of fairy tales in like
um like this this contract this uh building
the the narrative of fairy tales i know it's
not it's not new but I don't know i'm trying
to like you know like um I don't know I don't
know what what's the name and if if you even
know this tail it's um it's called barbe bleue in
French it's like it's called a a blue beard and
it's about this horrible man having in prison in
his house women that he's killing um yeah what
a great very what a great story to tell you to
tell children yeah great imaginary um it's just a
terrible story and it's talking about narcissism
um it's talking about um uh crime basically uh
and the feminist seed and so I'm using this story
to tell to tell um stories about our society
um uh like I have uh what else do I have um
Alice in Wonderland she's swallowing an eye and
it's teaching her to look at the world with her
uh heart instead of looking it with the ego so I
have like three done already i have uh the Little
Red Riding Hood meeting the wolf in the wood and
the wolf is like "I don't want to eat you i just
want to talk and I just want to share my fears
and I just want to be heard." And so the Little
Red Riding Hood is taking the time and holding
space to just talk and exchange with the wolf
and then they party with the grandma and they're
having tea and they like dance in the in the woods
and in the cosmos and it's uh actually a happy
ending um they live forever happy in the cosmos
yeah so that one of the project I'm working on
lately and I have another narrative project it's
called Dips Fake and it's about a polymorphic
potato um having an existential crisis she just
like doesn't know what she's doing wrong because
she's following the recipe of society she's like
very normative and fitting into all of the boxes
and she's like "Oh I've done this i got married
i have a job and I'm doing all of this that that
I and and at the end of the day she's not happy
uh and she's going into uh a lot of adventures and
I'm developing this as a as a show now so there
are like um a few new figures coming like the dad
and the mom who are like the boomers very afraid
of the change uh there is there is one character
that is like uh the incarn like he incarnates the
pat the patriarchy is like very controlling is
like giving feeding the people toxic dreams and
um like wonder solutions by just purchasing the
same product over and over again so yeah that's
that's the main that's the main project happening
right now that sounds so incredible i'm just
really moved with how you are mirroring so many
elements of society both like these fairy tales
that are like in our unconscious right that like
we've learned from an early age to also mirroring
things that are happening in our contemporary
time and speaking to the conflict the paradox
the way that we're having to hold both hope but
also maintaining a critical lens and understanding
of the place that we exist within and how we
can have an impact and I so so see your work as
having such a deep and profound impact within
not just the digital realms or AI but I think
across culture especially with how courageous
you are and how you're able to step into so many
different ways of showing up as an artist like
I feel like that's one of the reasons you and I
um feel such a kinship is because we're not
afraid to like go into music and to collage
into GIFs and to performance right like there's
so much that moves through our practices and one
thing that we haven't really talked about and
I haven't really shared very much here on this
podcast is that I'm vegan and you're also vegan
and that's also something that connects us as well
and yeah I would just love to hear anything you
have to say about like veganism or how like an
environmental understanding like also impacts
your work i don't understand uh why we're still
eating animals i don't understand it's proven that
protein are not just in animals again it's like an
old narrative fed by the same people who have
interests uh and money interest and narrative
interests uh I became vegan uh about 10 years
ago uh it's the best decision I've ever made um I
feel so much better in my global energy physical
mental everything it has healed so many things
and so many internal conflicts with my body as
well i felt like I've always felt that there was
something wrong in the way I was um feeding myself
and it has been a very big subject in my life
and veganism has just like turned switched off
like the the the problem or the like the subject
so um I don't know it's and it's also you know
as a as a woman I don't I like I meet a lot of
people a lot of women who are feminists but they
are still eating meat and they're still eating
eggs and they're still eating milk and and
cheese and stuff and I have one friend who is
uh feminist and uh vegan and we talk about
about the conversions of uh fights and the
alignments of beliefs and what you do in your uh
physical life and you cannot be like be against
something and then be blinded by some aspect of
it you know if I understand and everybody has
its own journey and everybody you know I'm not
judging anyone from doing everybody is allowed
to do whatever they want like I'm not offended
when someone is eating a steak uh I'm just like
you know do whatever you like it's it's fine um
but I think I and I I think I don't know if you
have felt that but I feel like 10 years ago it was
really felt as an activist thing today I feel like
it's getting more people are understanding more
people that you don't need to to eat that much
meat and even saying meat it feels like wrong to
me like it's just like living animals like I don't
understand dead carcass cadabvers like I don't
Yeah i just understand i just don't understand
like have you ever looked in into a cow's eyes
like how how can you like how can you do that and
and especially when when you have the awareness of
how they're being treated in the slaughter house
and how the dairy industry and the meat industry
is the same and it's also um addressing a lot of
it's so many abuses that I don't tolerate in
my human life and I don't I will not I cannot
be fully complete if I to I don't tolerate that
for human but I tolerate that for other you know
like right other species yeah why yeah and I and
I you know and I just I really want to reiterate
that if you're listening to this and you're not
vegan like this is not meant to be judgmental
this is really to talk about the systemic because
I really think it's important to name that there
are huge systems in place that are reinforcing
the anti-feminist because most of the animals
used in within the animal agricultural industry
are female animals and on top of that we also have
the all the environmental reasons including the
use of water the destruction of land of air and
water resources and the impact that it's having
on our own bodies as well and so we're wanting
to name like the systemic and also understanding
that we all have different reasons for navigating
um our own health or needs and um how we connect
with food because I think this connects to the
AI conversation because I know a lot of people
talk about AI as being resource intensive and
being bad for the planet and I always find it
interesting that that's very easily taken on by
people but there's been millions of dollars that's
been invested to keep that same knowledge around
production of um animal agriculture and how it's
also destruct destroying the planet and taking
water and air resources and land resources away
from us as well and so I was wanting to name that
here on this podcast because it is information
that doesn't get out very much and it's also
something that I agree with you 10 years ago was
seen as subculture as not that big but we are
living in a renaissance now of like veganism and
know both in Paris and Los Angeles and Mexico City
and all over the world there are so many vegan
places that are open and people understanding
why it's such a delicious and divine way of eating
and that you don't really miss anything once you
are in it and I I've been vegetarian vegan since
I was 13 so at this point I don't even remember
what it was like to not exist in that way and so
if you're curious about that lifestyle just want
to share that it's something that it can actually
be really affirming and supportive for you so just
wanting to name that and and it's such a gift to
connect with you i'm like so in awe of everything
you're making and creating and the many ways that
you're showing up in the world and would love to
invite you to share how people can get in touch
with you how they can see your artwork in case
they're interested in learning more about you um
so social media uh I'm still there um I'm on all
of the platforms it's my name is an Anne Horel I have
a website as well that I keep updated as much as
I can and I also have a portfolio that I try to
update regularly that you can see on my website
and if Instagram collapses tomorrow uh my website
will still be will be there yes and yeah and this
this is where this is where you can find me yeah
well thank you so much for being on your art is
a spell like your art Anne is definitely a spell
and I'm so excited to know that you're creating
some new spells that you're going to be sharing
soon and please send me that information for
your upcoming exhibition so I can make sure to put
it in the show notes as well in case some of our
listeners are in France and want to go and visit
your show in person yeah I would love that yeah
well thank you so much thank you Edgar i hope you
all enjoyed tuning in to that conversation as much
as I enjoyed having it i really want to highlight
a couple of things from the conversation I just
had with an first of all I find it really
interesting in being a fan of art and of
art history seeing how many times new mediums and
new technologies bring about so much fear within
society and there is always a moment in time
when artists are the courageous ones who dive
deep into using these new technologies in their
artwork and what ends up happening is that their
art gets made fun of it gets critiqued it gets
talked about like it's not real art and then years
later it gets integrated into the canon and into
what everyone deems of as art practice this is
definitely happening today with digital art with
generative art with AI art i am really excited to
like open up this conversation with you all about
these new art forms because they are so new they
are so nent we are building them together and I
feel like it's so important for us to have our
contribution in the conversation about what these
mediums are how they exist in our world and what
kinds of realities we are creating with them and
imagining with them i want to name these patterns
because there's something that I've noticed
happened with video art with TV with internet
art with digital art with NFTS now with AI art it
also happened with photography as well and I fully
believe that there's something special about the
artists that are not afraid to take on these new
forms to explore them to glitch them to manipulate
them and to bring them into their art forms and
I know that there are so many conversations
that need to be had we need to remain critical
we need to keep asking for there to be changes in
terms of who gets to own data who gets to create
systems of data collection who gets to define how
algorithms work all of this needs to be talked
about because these types of technologies are
going to continue to have an impact on our world
and I think it's important for us to stay engaged
and in communication with these practices so that
we can change them and create them so that they
don't get created in other people's imaginaries
other than our own our voices are so needed so
I want to invite you all to comment let us know
what you think of Anne Horel's art practice let
us know what you think of all the conversations
that we had around digital art around veganism
around creating realities through magic and art
spells would love to hear your thoughts in the
comments thank you all so much for tuning in
and do not forget that your art is a spell and it
will change your life and the world around you bye