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Larry Osborne shares about his start at North Coast Church and the innovations that have occurred over the last 40 years including video venues, sermon-based groups, and being "sticky." Larry gives insights on using culturally relevant group methods rather than imports from other countries. He also cautions pastors about preaching politics and become "Switzerland" in your church.
In each episode you will discover effective ways to recruit more leaders, form better groups, and make more disciples. Guests to this monthly podcast will include small group and discipleship experts like Carl George, Dr. Warren Bird, Steve Gladen, Mark Howell, Dr. Bill Donahue, Bill Willits, Chris Surratt, as well as some pastors you've never heard of who are doing some amazing things with small groups and discipleship.
Allen White:
Hi, Allen White here. Before we get started today, I've got some exciting news. First, the exponential group's podcast is now part of the Lumivoz podcast network, along with other great hosts, like Steve Gladen from Saddleback church, Carolyn Taketa from group talk, Rusty George, and many others. For more information on the Luma Oz podcast network, go to Lumivoz.com. And in case you're wondering nothing is gonna change with the exponential group's podcast. You don't have to go anywhere else to listen, but I just wanted to let you know, another thing I'm very excited about is the release of the exponential group's audio book. Now you can listen to the 250 pages of the exponential group's book under bridged in just eight hours. And as much as I tried to behave in the recording studio, I did add a straight comment here or there. You can find the exponential group's audio book, wherever you buy your audio books. Now on today's conversation with Larry Osborne,
Larry Osborne:
We have to be more careful than ever because, uh, everybody is mad at everybody and ready to use a different dictionary to every word you're gonna say. Cause the whole culture and our people are part of a culture is a culture of relational destruction. You know, there's no political disagreements anymore. There's just, you know, grenades it's all or nothing on all sides. I think that doesn't impact the way that people hear the gospel hear the way we teach the Bible.
Allen White:
Welcome to the exponential group's podcast. I'm your host, Allen White. This podcast is designed to help you take the guesswork out of groups. In each episode, you will discover effective ways to recruit more leaders, form better groups and make more disciples. Please subscribe to this monthly podcast on iTunes, Google play, or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to episode 16. Today's guest is Larry Osborne. Larry is a teaching pastor and kingdom ambassador at north coast church in vistas, California, helping to oversee its growth from 128 to over 13,000 in weekend attendance with seven local campuses, a sought after trainer of pastors leaders and church planters. He has been acclaimed as one of the most influential and innovative pastors in America for pioneering such concepts as sermon based small groups, pastoral teaching teams, video venues and multisite churches. His fingerprints are found on churches throughout the world. Larry's leadership books include lead like a shepherd sticky church, sticky teams, sticky leaders, mission creep, and the unity factor. Larry holds a master divinity and doctorate degree from TBA, theological seminary. He and his wife Nancy live in Oceanside, California. They have three married children and eight grandchildren for more information on Larry's ministry, go to Larry osborne.com. And now my conversation with Larry Osborne.
So how are you?
Larry Osborne:
I'm doing good.
Allen White
Well, let's go back. Um, talk about the early days of north coast. How, how old is north coast as a church?
Larry Osborne:
The 1978 is when it started as a Bible study in somebody's home. And I think his first official meeting was sometime that year. Uh, I came in 1980, so I didn't plan it from zero. There are about 70 adults meeting in the Carlsbad high school cafeteria. My first Sunday, I'm like the founder builder, if you will. And of course not the lead pastor anymore. Last three years, Chris brown has been that and I'm a, uh, a teaching pastor in kingdom ambassador and whatever it is they need me to do. So.
Allen White
So you're, you're the Sage at this point.
Larry Osborne:
I, I don't know what that means. It means I get, I get skip a few meetings, but, uh, I, you know, we've always had a teaching team. So, you know, ive taught, uh, 20 times this year used to teach 2324. So, uh, that hasn't changed radically, but uh, some of the other areas Chris has taken over,
Allen White
That's good. That's good. So back in, uh, 1980, when you came in, uh, what was north coast like worship style, ministry style? What did that look like?
Larry Osborne:
It was a typical church plant made by middle aged people. So they were, you know, worship style was, uh, basically the calendar said 1980. They were trying to do 1970. It was, uh, a group of people that had a young pastor. Uh, he was a little older than me. I was only 28, Nancy. My wife was 24 when we came. So my goodness, we knew everything. So this guy was a few years older than me, but still the idea was we, we won a church, that's a church for us, uh, late forties, early fifties. Uh, and so it took a few years, uh, until we kind of had worship that, uh, actually matched the calendar since then, we've been able to keep up with that. And probably around the six year, it took about five, six years to get there. And, uh, there was a lot of turnover first few years.
Larry Osborne:
And then at that point I sat down with a guy that finally got us to, uh, reach the calendar. And I said, okay, Paul, you've done an awesome job getting this here, but you realize your future, uh, from raises to opportunity, everything is not gonna be getting an all star band. It's gonna be raising up worship leaders. So that became the, uh, the gold star of our whole worship ministry, which is why we have so many BA you know, we got 20 something bands or whatever, cuz rather than making a recording industry, uh we've, we've tried to, uh, actually be a place to, uh, identify, empower and release worship leaders. So that's been a fun part of it.
Allen White
That's great. And if, if I recall correctly, you offer venues with different styles of worship. Is that correct?
Larry Osborne:
Yeah, there, yeah. The reason we were pro uh, probably, uh, the reason God used us to be the first one to do the video venues and all that is, is we were primed for it. If we hadn't done it, somebody else was gonna do it within five years. Absolutely. Mm-hmm because it cost the video and things was dropping the quality, getting so much better, but we had at that point for worship bands, completely different, uh, that were rotating every single week. So our guy had done such a good job. We had four quality bands and uh, when we had about 3000 people, uh, uh, in the warehouse we were meeting, we could only see 500 adults. So we had to come up with some solution. I mean, we had multiplied all the services we could. So this idea of simultaneous services and then, Hey, what the heck, make them different, a reward, not an overflow room, uh, that, that led us to, uh, what eventually just exploded over the next three to five years. Uh, we went from, I think, 89 people in a small little room to first week. We did it. Mm-hmm uh, it was three years later, 3000, 200 people, adults were choosing one of our video venues, not and not the live room. So it just opened up the door for growth. We had no idea was being log jammed just by not having space or having only one style of worship.
Allen White
That's true. Now, in addition to having more than one style of worship, what did you see? What would you feel were the advantages of having worship in a smaller setting instead of just building a massive auditorium?
Larry Osborne:
Well, yeah, we were, we were probably kind of early on seeing the end of the massive large auditoriums, because the reason you have them is you're a very regional church, which is a new phenomena. I mean, there were no megachurches until there was mobility mm-hmm so leave your neighborhood and go to your preferred. And, um, what, what we were sensing was people that drive more than 20 minutes, two things disappear, come and see evangelism, which is a primary way. Adults come to Jesus, mm-hmm in a lasting way. Uh, and then the other thing is, uh, youth involvement. And so it just hit us that, uh, people will choose a smaller environment and you need more volunteers. You need more BA see, some people see that as negative. Uh, I saw that as positive mm-hmm the best days of empowerment in our church are the early church plant days.
Larry Osborne:
When you suddenly are strong enough, we're gonna make it, we're gonna survive. And you have all kinds of roles that people can take. Uh, but the larger church kids, there's less and less roles that people can take. So this idea of multiplying services, pre COVID, I think location time in this region right here, mm-hmm uh, within our drive time, we had 56 services going on of different from, from style to location to time. Wow. Think of how many people now could have a significant role in ministry. Mm-hmm you could still have the quality offerings that cause you to become a big church. I mean, churches can't choose to become big. They become big because people choose to go there. Mm-hmm uh, and so there's kind of a conundrum that happens, uh, when you have high quality, you get large crowds. Well, what can you do to sh shrink those crowds and yet still offer the quality that draws people. So
Allen White
Do you find that there's sociological about the size of the room that people are meeting in?
Larry Osborne:
Yeah. And I think that's changed over time and become even more significant. Uh, I call it, can you find a friend mm-hmm if a room is so large that, uh, a friend will be there and you won't be able to find them, unless you really look hard that you've become an event. Uh, and, uh, it's like the restaurant that is so good. It's got a long line, but it's not long until that long line causes it to become what I call a special event restaurant mm-hmm , it's not one. You go to spur them all. Hey, let's go out tonight. And, uh, I think that was one of the things that fed the, uh, declining number of services that people were showing up, uh, on a month, because the more you become an event, uh, the less relational you are, the less you have a needed role, all kinds of things go on and a bunch of other factors as well contributed.
Allen White
Well, I'm kind of wondering out loud these days, if some of the, you know, lack of people coming back to in-person services is related to where they're finding community. You know, if it's just programming, you get programming online, right? Let, let's switch to small groups. You're, you're known for sermon based groups. Um, how did, how did you come upon that idea and, uh, why did you choose that path?
Larry Osborne:
Well, I always thought small groups were an important thing. I'd been a youth pastor and we'd had them when I, I came to north coast. Once we had about 120 people, adults showing up that just over a hundred number, I felt like we were fooling ourselves. We thought we were really close group, but we were really a bunch of people at the core who knew each other very well. And everybody else, we were happy to be an acquaintance with, but new people don't want a friendly church. They want friends mm-hmm . And, uh, we were fooling ourselves that people were actually connecting. Uh, you know, they were, uh, again, they were meeting people. They were getting to be an acquaintance, but they weren't being invited over for a barbecue or, Hey, you want to go to the game with me, whatever. So I had this idea, we've, we've got to make small groups, a hub of our ministry.
Larry Osborne:
And like I said, we were barely over a hundred adults and I just felt we were fooling ourselves. And then the sermon baseball came mostly, uh, because I'd deserved a bunch of other models that seemed really good, but they were, they were models that were designed to bring people into the church rather than slam the back door shut, uh, very influenced by things going on in Korea and, uh, a bunch of books that were written about that model. Uh, but as I looked around the, uh, the states, I found only a handful of churches in which small groups were really the first point of connection, uh, that when I looked around the world, it was in places where Christianity was considered a cult, uh, where, uh, and it would the same thing here. It's much, people will quickly go to a church here. They've been to one for a wedding.
Larry Osborne:
They know there's a, a back row in an aisle. They can sit on and leave. They're very hesitant to go to a home, but if they were getting into Buddhism or some Eastern religion or new age thing or whatever, the last thing they'd go to as a temple, because they wouldn't know when to stand up, sit down, fight, fight, fight, or anything going on they would probably go to a small group. And so that aha for me, uh, caused us to say, let's switch it. Let's use it to create relationships and slam the back door shut, not as an evangelistic tool. I think it works in theory as that, but I just don't find real models where it's working and that led to the sermon base model, because it's so simple. It's just used industry 1 0 1 and it reaches men so much better. Uh, men as a whole, this is a stereotype, but men as a whole are not readers.
Larry Osborne:
All kinds of publishers have studies on that. That's why there's so much estrogen. When you go into a, a old school bookstore, mm-hmm, where Amazon took 'em over. And, but all men tend to be an expert, not on the little book that they read. They'll be hesitant if they're new at this stuff. Uh, but they're an expert on the movie they saw. Hmm. And, and so to just talk about the sermon, it's like, oh yeah, I'll talk about that all day long to talk about a book, uh, that I little booklet I just read, and I'm not that familiar with all the phrases, how to pronounce the words. Uh, I go silent. So we've been able to reach men incredibly well, uh, all of these years, uh, I believe because of that and, and new believers who Don.
Allen White
Yeah. That's, that's a great insight.
Larry Osborne:
It's just easy.
Allen White
It is. And I think there's a genius to going back and revisiting the topic from the weekend, you know, refreshes your mind. You have a chance of, okay, how am I gonna apply this to my life? And then I have a group that's gonna support me if I feel prompted to, you know, I'm preaching to the choir. But
Larry Osborne:
Yeah, I grew up, uh, going to church and we had a Sunday school thing. We had been a sermon. And then if you love the pastor you showed up on Wednesday night for now, I never knew what we were studying. Something out of the Bible mm-hmm . So we chose, we chose kinda the in and out burger model, very few things on the menu, uh, as opposed to the Jack of the box model, which I felt a lot of the churches wear funny commercials, huge menu, no line.
Allen White
Yeah. And, and, but you really, I mean, you shouldn't be able to order tacos and egg rolls in the same place. That's just wrong. Okay. so, you know, gimme the burger protein style and the fries animal style any day, but, uh, you know, but you have to know what that means. Right. Um, so you mentioned other churches that you saw that were doing some things that were appealing to you at the time, who, who were some of those early influences on your small group industry?
Larry Osborne:
Uh, probably the most significant thing I picked up is when I had this vision, I had one, our staff member go out and search places and he did something that was genius that I always tell pastors and leaders to do. And my bias was to find all the best models by size in the world. So there was a huge one in Texas. I was looking at Korea. I did have those questions about, Hey, I don't think it works this way or that, but I, I looked at the highly successful and he did something very different. He looked for successful at a church. We would go to if we lived in that town. Hmm, brilliant. He didn't even know what he was doing. It's the second time he did that on the ministry assignment. I said, do you realize what you just did? This is brilliant because it, it meant that there would be a cultural fit.
Larry Osborne:
Uh, and, uh, it was a, a church up in Westlake. Uh, it's slipping my mind. I think it was something Westlake community church church about 1200 or so. And they were doing, uh, small, small groups, very similar to what we did. So that first year we just copied their model, cuz we'd go to this church and they were ahead of us. Uh, and then the second year or third year, we made the big switch to sermon based and a few other things, but it got off the ground because I found a, a successful model I could use as a absolute recipe that fit our DNA, which was the big mistake. I think most people make, they look for the biggest baddest, most well known small group ministry. And yet they'll tell me well, but I wouldn't go to that church if I lived in that town. Well then probably their style of ministry won't work for you. Mm-hmm , that's
Allen White
A very good point. Yeah, yeah. That, that is a great way to look at it. For sure. Now I know you mentioned that you looked at a chose model from Korea. A lot of people have embraced aspects of that. Um, if I remember right, I, I got a recording from a conference and you said something about why that won't work in the us. What, what were you, what, what were your objections?
Larry Osborne:
Yeah, well, my, I have a chapter in sticky church. That's called why choses model, won't work in your church. And it really applies to Brazil, Africa everywhere. You see these movements cuz even in these Catholic countries, E evangelical Christianity, uh, not the political sense of it, but the historic sense of the word, uh, is seen as a cult mm-hmm . And uh, what I found is where it was, uh, uh, reaching people as the first place to come. You had certain common denominators and uh, one of them is a history of military COOs, very strong male dominant leadership. And there those pastors, when they say jump, people, ask how high on the way up and really every single one of those cultures. So they can demand people to go to a small group, demand people to be in the neighborhood demand. And it's just expected when they, uh, in the culture, strong leadership. And I think we miss that. I tell pastors, you know, Cho, I read an interview with him and, and he was asked, uh, well, what happens if somebody doesn't go to a group? And he says, oh, whoa, whoa. I tell them they have syn against God and their pastor. And they need to go to prayer mountain to repent this big prayer mountain they had mm-hmm and I tell American pastors or European pastors, you try that. And you'll be at prayer mountain.
Allen White
say, where do my people go? I
Larry Osborne:
A church, a very different culture.
Allen White
You're right.
Larry Osborne:
Sex and so strong, uh, strong, uh, leadership, uh, uh, almost dictatorial history. Uh, second thing is, Christianity's a foreign religion. Mm-hmm third thing is they're mostly led by, uh, uh, women. Mm-hmm even if the groups aren't, the webs of relationship are relational. Uh it's they're not in highly mobile. Agriculturals like we are where relatives don't live together. So it's an aunt or it's an uncle or it's some relative inviting you to their home and you'll go to that home. Uh, so those are just a, a, a, a few of the things that cause it to be a very different environment genius in that culture. Mm-hmm but not a real good fit here.
Allen White
Yeah. No, and I think that's, that's important cuz I feel like you mentioned south America, people trying to impose like a 12 G model or some things like that and it's just, it doesn't fit, you know, because
Larry Osborne:
It's like trying to have a revival in Southern California. You go back 20 years in the Bible belt revival could work. Uh, but 40 years ago in California revival didn't work because you didn't have, uh, cultural Christianity mm-hmm you were all in Europe, so you don't have people going just for cultural reasons. Yeah. So there's nobody to
Allen White
That's. That's true. That makes a lot of sense. Well, speaking of cultural changes, we've seen a lot of cultural change in the last, uh, two years. So what, what have you seen from kind of your vantage point? What used to work? That's continuing to work and what's maybe not working so well that we need to innovate a little bit.
Larry Osborne:
Well, I, I think COVID speeded up some things that were gonna happen anyway. Mm-hmm uh, and so we used to be Macy's with a website, you know, trying to drive foot traffic. And uh, now we've come out where we were headed anyway, more like home Depot, I believe the number four or five retailer, uh, online retailer, retailer, but only 5% of their sales come online. But what happens is people they'll they'll wanna go to the home Depot store to see it or they'll go, oh, I know what it is. I just ordered it online. They wanna pick it up fast. So they order it now get it from the locker. Uh, they go in, you know, it's just agnostic about how the interaction takes place and church, uh, uh, kind of was fast forwarded to that, uh, during COVID and, and that's part of the reason people aren't coming back, that people don't realize it's the pastors and worship leaders that want everybody in the room to create the energy mm-hmm , uh, you know, uh, Hebrews 10, 24 and 25 for sake, not gathering together is not about coming in a large assembly with hazers smoke machines and a mic, you know, a sound system, uh, it's about a house church and, and staying in, in contact.
Larry Osborne:
And so people have chosen to do that. I think another thing that's going on, I talk a lot about is our, our, our, our culture, uh, is at the, the bottom rung of Romans one when it talks 18 to 32, where it talks about a culture that turns its back on God getting darker and darker and darker. And mm-hmm me, most Christians and even Christian leaders think the bottom rung is, is sexual decadence. But if we read the passage, actually the last few verses, I think it's 28 to 32, when God finally gives them over to a depraved mind to do what ought not be done. Just the absolute bottom. It's not about sexual decadence. It's about relational destruction. Mm uh, every single word in there is a lack of faithfulness, slander gossip, you name it. I mean, and you know, Christian publishers now have become TMZ.
Larry Osborne:
Uh, it's just like we just gossip slander you name it. Mm-hmm , that's, that's kind of the big thing. And everybody's mad at everybody and it wasn't COVID that created it. It was a downward cycle culture and a second thing, echo chambers, which are produced by the fact you can, you can choose your source of music, your source of information, your source of news, your source of theology. And, and so our, our we've always lived in echo chambers. They just used to be geographic. Now they're by choice mm-hmm and one group looks at another group today and thinks the only reason they hold that viewpoint is they're either stupid or imoral and no, they hold that viewpoint because it's consistent with the, uh, echo chamber they're in. And by the way, you are in one as well. So how has that impacted ministry? Um, we have to be more careful than ever mm-hmm uh, because uh, everybody is mad at everybody and ready to use a different dictionary to every word you're gonna say.
Larry Osborne:
Uh, because the whole culture and our people are part of a culture is a culture of relational destruction. You know, there's no political disagreements anymore. There's just, you know, grenades, uh, it's it's all or nothing on all sides. Uh, and, and to think that doesn't impact the way that people hear the gospel hear the way we teach the Bible. I think the echo chambers mean we need to work together with the church across the street, far more than ever, because our ability to reach people is actually getting narrower. Mm-hmm , as people are no longer listening to learn, they're listening to find out what side you are on.
Allen White
Yes. And we even learned that during the pandemic, you know, with what I referred to as the Maites and the anti Maites, you know, straight outta the book, straight outta the book of Galatians. So let's say, you know, obviously we're still called to reach a world, but let's say that people are assuming that churches are conservative and hold certain conservative political views maybe were perceived as being closed minded or even hateful or unaccepting, that sort of thing. How does a church overcome that stereotype to reach a community and, you know, spread the love of Christ?
Larry Osborne:
Yeah, well not, everybody's gonna agree with me. Uh, more people agree now than dead 10 years, 12 years ago, when I started giving a talk called the Switzerland principle, uh, and how it's important it is to stick with the Bible mm-hmm and not the cultural applications. When you come to politics or any hot button issue, everybody thinks they have to speak to the hot button issue while it's hot. Uh, but the problem is nobody's listening. When you speak to the hot button issue while it's hot, they're only listening to find out what side you're on mm-hmm and I can prove this. I've literally asked thousands of pastors now. And I said, how many of you have spoken to a hot button issue, politically, culturally, whatever, when it's on the front pages and had someone come up to you afterward and say, pastor, thank you so much.
Larry Osborne:
You changed my mind. I've never had a hand go up. And I said, because we need the wisdom to understand that if we're gonna do the work of an evangelist, as Timothy was called to do, which by the way, is leading people to Christ and discipling them. Mm-hmm , you know, yes, a great commission until they obey everything. Jesus taught by that whole framework. Um, that what we've gotta do is we've gotta stick to the gospel. And as people grow in the gospel, they'll have a better understanding of culturally how it fits or how they ought to vote or whatever that would be. But when I put that up front, the person who isn't yet, where I'm proclaiming, we should be thinks they're the enemy. , I've got story after story here at north coast. And so does Chris brown of, of people who came completely unbiblical viewpoints.
Larry Osborne:
And after a while they hear us just teach Jesus. They thought they were our enemy. Uh, and then their crossed arms become unfolded. Then they step with a line and follow Jesus. And then six months, a year later they're going, I can't believe how my values and actions have been transformed, but had we met them at the door, you know, with, Hey, you gotta have these eight viewpoints. Uh, it wouldn't happen. Now that doesn't mean to reach large people. We, we lower the standards at north coast. We still practice church discipline on the specific list that is mentioned there mm-hmm , uh, high handed sin is high handed sin, but I just don't find any of the epistles railing on the culture. They rail on the church. Mm-hmm when I rail on the culture, I just get a bunch of people amening me and I never get anybody in the culture coming back a second time to hear the gospel.
Allen White
Yeah. And I think that's important because as confused as people are, as anxious as people are right now, you know, if we can lead them to what, what we have that is solid and doesn't change. Um, I think for a lot of people that would be welcomed. If, if it's, you know, we can get all the other stuff out of the way I was with a pastor, uh, last week. And he said that most Christians are one, one yard sign away from destroying their witness.
Larry Osborne:
I think that's probably true. I mean, I got off social media, uh, because I had all these friends and every now and then they would post something about everybody who holds a certain viewpoint, which sometimes I held that viewpoint being an idiot or whatever. And like, you reckon my friendship, dude, I don't really care what your view is, but you just painted me. And so I found people I liked, I was starting to stop, like just cuz I was hearing every word they were saying, reminds me ECC. These don't listen to every word your servant says about you because you know that you too have cursed others and, and that sense of why I got off social media, relationally is the same thing with the yard signs or the messages when we feel we've got to retweet or like everything. That's a statement as if somehow, you know, we're these great philosopher of life. All we do is lose opportunities. Mm-hmm
Allen White
unfortunately true. If you were to go back to 1980, start all over again or, or you would say the pastor of it's starting at church today, how would you do it? What would you advise that pastor to do?
Larry Osborne:
Well, I think my personal biggest mistake I would do differently. If I could start all over, I had been in large churches and in larger churches, what you do is as important or sometimes even more than who you are and a smaller church who you are is everything. Uh, and I spent too much time preparing sermons because at, at 23, 24, I was a second preacher in this huge Baptist church, uh, probably the, uh, second largest of that tribe. Mm-hmm . And so boy, you better prepare really well. Well, when you got 70 adults, no, you better hang out with them more and prepare a little less. Mm. You know, it doesn't have to be quite as smooth as it did with all the thousands of people listening. Uh, it has to be genuine and real. So I, I, I think my biggest mistake was kind of having a big dream of who I was gonna reach.
Larry Osborne:
And instead of she, the flock I had, I used the flock. I had to reach the people I wanted to reach. I wonder they never brought any of their friends. We grew by, I won my first three years. Wow. And when I finally gave up building a big church and said, I'm gonna take care of who I have. And uh, maybe I'm not so special and maybe God doesn't meet, need me to make something so great for him. Suddenly they started bringing their friends left and right. So that would be, it is, I, I just say focused shepherd people. Mm-hmm uh, and when it gets bigger, you're still shepherding people, but you can't do it all yourself. Make sure you're creating systems that they're cared for as well or better than they were when you were a handful of people.
Allen White
Mm-hmm , that's good. And I think that's an important word right now because you know, most pastors I've talked to, they haven't, you know, achieved their pre COVID attendance. Not saying that that should necessarily be our goal, but, um, you know, just the notion of lead the people you have and not the people that you lost. Um, you know, that kind of thing is hard. Appreciate your time. I'm gonna, I'm gonna leave you with a joke that you might appreciate. So the Sunday school teacher asked her class, what would it be like to live in a land flowing with milk and honey and a little boy raised his hand and said sticky
Larry Osborne:
Allen White
Cause you had the sticky books. So think
Larry Osborne:
I've got a few of them. I've got a few
Allen White
. So I, I thought as I was preparing for this, I thought of that old joke. Um, so anyway, anyway, thank you very much for your time. Sure. And um, anything you're working on that we should know about?
Larry Osborne:
Nope. Just working on working on stuff, uh, trying to, you know, preach well here, mentor the pastors outta the privilege of doing and, and just, I'm just keeping on keeping on
Allen White
That's good. And if anybody wanted to reach you, what would be the best way to do that?
Larry Osborne:
Uh, north coast church.com is a great place to, uh, find me or Larry osborne.com uh, has information as well.
Allen White
Very good. Thank you so much.
Larry Osborne:
Thank you.