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For over 25 years Proverbs 31 Ministries' mission has been to intersect God's Word in the real, hard places we all struggle with. That's why we started this podcast. Every episode will feature a variety of teachings from president Lysa TerKeurst, staff members or friends of the ministry who can teach you something valuable from their vantage point. We hope that regardless of your age, background or stage of life, it's something you look forward to listening to each month!
Kaley Olson:
Well, hey, guys. Welcome back to The Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast, where we share biblical Truth for any girl, in any season. If you're watching on YouTube, hello. From the Proverbs Radio Ministries office, my name is Kaley Olson. I'm your host, and you can already tell, guys, this is going to be a little bit of a different episode and a different four weeks we're heading into, and I'm so excited. I've got some friends with me in the room. I would like for you guys to introduce yourselves, so let's start over here with Meghan Ryan.
Meghan Ryan:
Hey, everyone. My name is Meghan Ryan. I am the Promotional Copywriter at Proverbs 31 Ministries, which means I write marketing content. If you get an email, I probably wrote it.
Kaley Olson:
You're great at it.
Meghan Ryan:
Thank you.
Kaley Olson:
You're welcome.
Shae Hill:
Amazing. My name is Shea. I also work in content, but I work on Lysa TerKeurst's content team.
Ashley Jackson:
My name is Ashley Jackson, and I am a part of all things social media.
Kaley Olson:
Yes, you are. All three of you write in some form or capacity. You've got a book coming out you guys wrote on a resource we're going to talk about soon.
Ashley Jackson:
Yeah.
Kaley Olson:
I'm really excited about it. But, guys, we are going to take the next four weeks here, at Proverbs, on the podcast, on our YouTube channel, to talk about the topic of prayer: how we overcomplicate it, underestimate the power in it, and how to stay connected to God in seasons of disappointment and anxiety. It's a lot.
Ashley Jackson:
It's going to be good, yeah.
Kaley Olson:
It's going to be so good. But I think one of the things that we need to establish here is that prayer is a journey, and sometimes it can be a really bumpy one. I don't think that we are all going to ever arrive when it comes to prayer. There's a lot of seasons where I feel really confident, and sometimes I feel like a flat-out failure.
Do you guys ever feel that way?
Ashley Jackson:
Oh, yes.
Shae Hill:
Absolutely.
Kaley Olson:
OK. I think, to get us started off on the right foot today, this is kind of a joke, but we're going to get started this way.
Shae Hill:
Yeah.
Kaley Olson:
I think we should share moments where we feel like a prayer failure. That way we can help our listeners who are watching, or listening to the podcast, understand: Hey, we've been there too, and if you're feeling this way when it comes to prayer, we've all been there.
Shae Hill:
Yes.
Kaley Olson:
I'll go first.
Shae Hill:
Thank you.
Kaley Olson:
You're welcome. I will.
Shae Hill:
We honor you going first, Kaley.
Kaley Olson:
Group prayer or popcorn prayer gives me major anxiety.
Shae Hill:
Oh, OK.
Kaley Olson:
You know, because I end up spending ... this is a major confession here. This makes me sound like a terrible person.
Shae Hill:
No, no.
Kaley Olson:
I think more about what I'm going to say in the prayer than I really pay attention to the prayer sometimes, and that makes me feel like a failure.
Shae Hill:
I will raise my hand and say, I also only spend popcorn prayer thinking about what I'm going to pray and not listening to the prayer.
I feel like this might be a human confession, probably a human confession.
Kaley Olson:
We want to be original but also not ramble. OK.
Shae Hill:
Exactly. Yes.
Kaley Olson:
Ashley, what's your prayer failure?
Ashley Jackson:
So sometimes in prayer meetings or at church, we're supposed to be praying about something very serious, and I start thinking about lunch.
Meghan Ryan:
Oh no.
Ashley Jackson:
Yeah, what I'm going to get, where I'm going to go, what's at home.
Kaley Olson:
That's also, I think, connected to popcorn prayer sometimes. So if there's not a designated person to go last, then it can go on for a long time.
Ashley Jackson:
Yeah.
Kaley Olson:
All right, Shea.
Shae Hill:
That's so relatable. I love that so much.
OK, so me too. This confession kind of makes me feel like a bad person. I have a friend, and we had been praying for a new job for her. And so we had been even just praying for job opportunities to come about, and then she had a few interviews with this company, and she specifically asked me to pray — and hopefully other people to pray too — but this is about me. So she asked me to pray for an interview she had at 2 o'clock or something, and I was like, absolutely, standing with you in faith, praying with you on your team. Wouldn't you know, 3:01 [p.m.] rolls and around 3:05 [p.m.] she's like, texting me. She's like, "Thank you so much for praying. It went so well," and I forgot to pray at 2 o'clock for her interview, and I felt like the worst friend ever.
Kaley Olson:
Been there.
Shae Hill:
I know.
Kaley Olson:
Been there.
Shae Hill:
Because how do you even respond? You're like, "Oh, you're welcome." You know, "You were in my thoughts, but you were not in my prayers. I forgot."
Kaley Olson:
Life goes really fast sometimes.
Shae Hill:
It was really fast, wouldn't you know?
Kaley Olson:
I stand with you instantly.
Shae Hill:
Yeah. I just felt, ugh, that was a big prayer-failure moment.
Kaley Olson:
Yeah, Megan?
Meghan Ryan:
I really, really relate to all of these. I'm like, I don't know if I have any to add. Totally. I think I spend a lot more time keeping people in my thoughts than in my prayers. People say in our thoughts and prayers. Yeah. Nothing. But that's what I do.
Kaley Olson:
Yeah, yeah. No, for sure. Because I will mistake thinking about something for praying about something.
Meghan Ryan:
Or worrying about something or —
Kaley Olson:
Something. Yes. And really thinking, Oh God hears all this, and He knows everything I'm thinking so that it counts as prayer, but it's not intentional on my behalf. For sure. Guys, these are all really funny things. Thank you for opening the floor with that. And I mean, we do take prayer very seriously around here, but I think it's good to start off and kind of level the playing field and just admit where we've gotten it wrong. Because we know as part of prayer can kind of just be this thing that we feel like, oh we have to do it. We have to be really good at it. And there are some times where we're going to fall short. I think another area that I have really felt like a prayer failure is always thinking of prayer as an event. So go with me here. When I was little, I was taught you have to bow your head and close your eyes to pray.
And I think whenever you grow up in the church, sometimes prayer is taught like that. And so whenever I think of prayer as an event, and then I read verses in the Bible, 1 Thessalonians 5:17 that says to “pray without ceasing” (ESV). I think I can't do that, right? Yeah. I can't. If I'm treating prayer like an event, I can't close my eyes and pray all the time because if I was doing that, I wouldn't be able to do this podcast with you right now.
Meghan Ryan:
That's so true.
Kaley Olson:
OK. So I think that this is one of the biggest misconceptions that we have about prayer is that we have the prayer as an event over here and then we have everyday life over here. And we keep them very separate because we think, Oh, well, prayer is something that I have to do in a closed room by myself.
I've got to close my eyes, I've got to get away, and I can't ... like how can I pray without ceasing if I'm always having to make it this event? So I actually want to go to that verse in the Bible. First Thessalonians 5:17, it says, “pray without ceasing.” And I talked to my friend, a Bible teacher, Wendy Blight, who we’ll hear from later in this series. She taught me the actual Greek word here, “pray without ceasing” means incessantly, unceasingly, and without any unnecessary end. And so again, whenever we think the action of prayer is this event, it makes us automatically feel like a failure. So what does it mean then to pray without ceasing? So to understand the command to pray without ceasing, I want to dig deeper in the context of 1 Thessalonians 5:1-10. And you guys all have your Bibles.
So I'm feeling like a little bit of a failure here, but we have the internet. So I'm going to pull my Bible up on my computer here, and I'm going to read. Yes, there's freedom here. So I'm going to read at 1 Thessalonians 5, starting in verse 4, to set up and give context.
It says, "But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be awake and sober. For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him. Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing" (1 Thessalonians 5:4-11, NIV).
And then in verses 16-18, he says:
"Rejoice always, pray continually, give thanks in all circumstances; for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus."
So whenever we take "pray without ceasing" by itself, [we’re] automatically setting me up to feel like a failure because I can't do that. But whenever we go to the context of this verse, we see that Paul, the writer of the book, mentions “the day of the Lord” (1 Thessalonians 5:2, NIV). His call to the Thessalonians in 1 Thessalonians 5 was to live in such a way as to anticipate the Lord's return at any day. They were to be on guard. And so I think that mindset, the on-guard mindset, is more so talking about this prayerful state of mind.
So I have to forget about thinking of prayer as an event and think of it as a mindset because otherwise there is going to be no possible way for me to pray without ceasing. Instead, I bring prayer into my mundane, and I take prayer from being an event and my life separate, and I make them go together, and I do it whenever I can.
Meghan Ryan:
Love that.
Kaley Olson:
So let's again pay attention to the state of mind and [being] on guard. So I have you guys ... you're going to read some verses for me because I think that the Bible is really cool whenever we keep this stay alert and on-guard mindset and we look at other scriptures that talk about prayer. So, Ashley, will you read Ephesians 6:18?
Ashley Jackson:
Yes. So it says, "Praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end, keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints" (Ephesians 6:18, ESV).
Kaley Olson:
Great. So note the words: stay alert and with all perseverance. OK, Shea, will you read Luke 21:36?
Shae Hill:
Yes, it says, "But stay awake at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are going to take place, and stand before the Son of Man" (Luke 21:36, ESV).
Kaley Olson:
That's great. Again, the words stay awake and then pray for strength to escape. So there's what we see, and there's everything else that's going on in our mindset. We have to be on guard and be prayerful and always ask God for help. OK, Megan, Hebrews 4:16.
Meghan Ryan:
"Let us then approach God's throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need" (Hebrews 4:16, NIV).
Kaley Olson:
That's great ... time of need. I mean that's the same thing with on guard. I don't know a moment that I don't need help. I think whenever I become a prayer failure is whenever I don't think that I need help. Does that make sense? I can do it on my own. Yeah. I'm like, I don't need to go to God, but there's not a moment that I don't need Him. And it can be as simple as just like I need you right now.
So the key takeaway here whenever it comes to praying without ceasing is, I believe it's safe to interpret these passages as a mindset shift toward prayer. We have to stop believing the lie that it's this separate thing that has to be like a reverent time at all times. But rather we can pray at any time. And in this series, I'm so excited we're going to learn ways to do that. And, Megan, you actually sent me a podcast episode by Jennie Allen recently. I'm going to weave that in right here.
Meghan Ryan:
Yeah, go for it.
Kaley Olson:
It was so good. We love Jennie Allen, but I thought that this was really cool and applies to our teaching today. In her teaching on prayer, she said that the enemy's goal is for you to hate praying or feel like a failure so that you don't pray.
Meghan Ryan:
Wow.
Kaley Olson:
And this is why we should. And so let's remember, it's not an event. And praying without ceasing is a reminder to keep our eyes up, to stay humble in our humanity. And remember, God is working above and through all things. We want to keep our hearts available and eyes open to respond with prayer or engage in prayer at any time, even in the middle of the mundane and ordinary parts of our days.
So now that we've established prayer isn't an event but an opportunity to bring it into the mundane of our everyday, why do we still not do it? Why? So maybe we don't understand it, and we don't think that it's actually going to make a difference. Ashley, you're going to talk about that —
Ashley Jackson:
Yes.
Kaley Olson:
— In next week's episode, and I'm so excited you're going to help us to understand the power of prayer. Maybe we don't pray because we've been let down too many times when God doesn't come through for us or for others the way we hoped, and we've just given up.
And, Shea, you're going to talk about that later in the third week when we talk about prayer and disappointment. And then another reason we might not pray is because maybe we don't understand how to be still because we're so consumed by worries, fear and anxiety. And we have an amazing episode that Megan and I just got to record with Wendy Blight [who is] coming up to wrap us up, where she'll talk about her own journey with anxiety and how the Lord taught her habits to be still and how that helped her settle her soul. And I'm just excited to talk about this because I think prayer's game changing; it's something God so desperately wants for you and me. And the good news is we don't have to start from zero when it comes to talking with God. We aren't failures. I mean, really, we joked about it at the beginning in the ways that we kind of think, oh, I should have done this better.
But when we actually come to God in prayer, we can't fail talking to Him. We really can't. I mean, He is right there, and He's ready to hear whatever is on our mind — literally, whatever it is. We don't have to come polished. We can come as His children knowing that He is there and He wants to talk to us. So as we end our time together today, I want to give our listeners some practical ideas for how to uncomplicate it [prayer], because we talked about where we're heading into. We're going to talk about the power of prayer, we're going to talk about disappointment, and we're going to talk about anxiety. But in between now and next week's episode, I think it would be really cool for us to share some practical ways that we can uncomplicate prayer and weave it into our normal, everyday life. So I'll go first.
Meghan Ryan:
Yes. Once again.
Kaley Olson:
I feel like I'm always going first.
Shae Hill:
We love it.
Kaley Olson:
You're welcome.
Meghan Ryan:
I second.
Kaley Olson:
OK. Great. Megan, we'll call on you next. OK. So one of the things that I'm doing to intentionally weave prayer into my everyday is with my son. Normal, everyday activities with him so that he sees that talking with God is normal and will grow comfortable with it much earlier than I did. This isn't to say my parents said anything wrong.
Meghan Ryan:
Sure.
Kaley Olson:
I'm just thinking, Wow. I want him to see that this is so normal so that one day he doesn't struggle with it like I did at 31, almost 32, but he sees it as normal, and he wants to do it during the normal parts of his day as well. So, Megan ...
Meghan Ryan:
That's really sweet. And we're not sweet. Not saying that we don't approach God with holy reverence. Because we sure do. But I think our God is a relational God, and He longs for us to talk to Him. And so I think one of the practical things that I've been trying to implement is just taking kind of the fluff words out of my prayer. I feel like sometimes ... and even thinking about what you said about popcorn prayer ... Prayer, when you hear other people pray, you're like, they just seem to know this language that I clearly don't know. And that is not how I talk.
Ashley Jackson:
Like they had a script.
Meghan Ryan:
They had a script, and I don't have it. And I think if we're going to talk to the Lord in our everyday life as we would a friend or as we would a companion, we can take that fluff out of it. And yes, we're going to talk about praying through scripture, and we're going to use that language. And we're going to talk about how God is holy and powerful, and we can approach Him as such. But I think taking out those kind of filler fluff words that like, I'm like, "Do I mean anything I'm saying? Or can I just say what I mean?"
Ashley Jackson:
Yeah.
Meghan Ryan:
That's what I'm going to do.
Shae Hill:
Yeah, that's great.
Meghan Ryan:
Or try to do for sure.
Shae Hill:
I love that so much.
I love that. Yeah. So, Kaley, you talking about prayer being an event ... I didn't realize that's why I did maybe sometimes forget to pray or wait to pray or just kind of approach prayer with a lack of urgency. But I kind of wonder if that's what it was for me. It is for sure. If someone texts me to pray for something or if something comes up, it's like, ah, I'm in this meeting, or I'm in my car. I can't pray right now. But I've really tried recently, and maybe this started out of a little bit of a fear-based practice because I didn't like the feeling I felt when I realized I forgot to pray for that, my friends interview.
So something I've tried doing is praying right away. So, if you and I go to coffee, Kaley, and you're telling me about something that's going on before we leave coffee, I'm probably just going to pray with you. Because I can know with confidence leaving that meeting, we laid this down at the Lord's feet, you know? So just doing that right away. If you do life with me in the everyday, you may have gotten a text-message prayer or a voice-memo prayer. But I think that's just ... and our friend Madi who's on staff here at Proverbs, she's been known to do this too, where she's like we have to pray right now. But I think just approaching it with urgency and weaving it into regular conversation we do with friends so much so that we can just ... we don't have to wait until we're in our secret place or in our time with the Lord or things are slow or it's like, no, I mean sometimes. And also we can just pray right now. Yeah.
Kaley Olson:
That's great, Shea. And I think too, there's ... in addition to thinking of prayer as an event, there's also this tone of reverence or even there's this personal aspect to prayer where it can be embarrassing sometimes to pray. There had to be a level of comfort that you got to whenever you were like, "I'm just going to pray with you, Megan, on the spot." Or if we're at coffee, we're going to do that. Because then you're like, well, who's going to look at me? And all that. And I think that it just, it's something that once we grow comfortable enough doing, there's power even in that. And just praying on the spot for people and weaving that into your everyday, but you have to not care about what other people think.
Shae Hill:
Right, and just breaking away from the formalities of the words that we use or the setting. All of those things. I think years and years of feeling that way in your walk with the Lord, that will just really create a very particular setting where prayer is acceptable. And what we're trying to have conversation around today is, it should be as much of a part of our everyday life as talking with friends, going to work, making our meals. You know, like you're talking about, Kaley, the everyday things that you're doing with your son.
Kaley Olson:
Yeah, for sure.
Ashley Jackson:
I guess something for me — this might not be a tip for everybody — but something that really has brought me a lot of growth in prayer is praying through written word. And I think that's because I process through writing, and also it's so easy for me to be like, I'm praying. I'm praying. I'm asleep.
Kaley Olson:
Yes.
Ashley Jackson:
Or I'm thinking about lunch, or I'm thinking about ... I started to pray about a situation, and then I'm in that situation in my mind, and I'm coming up with good comebacks or whatever it is. And so I think I try to see it as, and this is again more you have to have time, and maybe if you're into writing, but just writing a letter to the Lord every day; that's great. And in a real way you're saying, “This really hurt my feelings today. I'm really angry about this. I'm really anxious.”
And then also trying to incorporate also the other things, and thank you. We were talking about in some of the other episodes, but I also saw a good idea that some people do this in their Notes app. Or they do a voice memo, or they write a text message. And I think that also could be a cool way to keep track of your prayers; if you're driving somewhere and you like, maybe you need to pray for someone you know, do it; you text yourself or something like that. But for me, I just find that if I'm doing, like Megan said, it's taking those filler ... Of course the Lord is holy. But when you talk to Him, you're writing a letter or you're texting Him, it feels more like this is real. He cares about this moment. And so just bringing it down to earth.
Kaley Olson:
Yeah, for sure. And if the Bible says we are friends of God, then everything in the Bible is true. We need to take that and treat it like that too. Because if we always treat it like an event, we're always going to feel like we have to come in cleaned up, like, our best selves, when God sees everything all the time anyway. And I feel like that it strips away so much of the power in it and just bringing all of ourselves to Him all the time as we are. Even if they're things like anger issues that we might be having or the raw feelings that we're having. Right. Treating God like a friend, just like you would call a friend up to process with. And I think the more we do that, the more we weave it into our mundane, the more we're going to want to do that.
Meghan, you talked about that in our episode with Wendy that's going to come at the end of this, but you said something about discipline.
Meghan Ryan:
Oh yes.
Kaley Olson:
Can you share that again really quick?
Meghan Ryan:
My college pastor said — and it's written in the front of my Bible; I'll not forget it — that discipline leads to desire. And I think the important thing to think about as we're talking about how to cultivate a thriving prayer life is, it's not going to come natural or easy. The same way exercise doesn't come natural or easy. It's a muscle we have to work. And eventually, once we discipline ourselves to do something, we start to desire it. And I can see that in my life. When I spend time in the Word, the more I'm in the Word, the more I want the Word. And the more I exercise, the more I want to exercise. And I think the same thing is with prayer. The more I talk to God, the more I want to talk to God. And so I think just remembering that if you're feeling like coming into this, I don't even know if I want to pray or learn more about prayer. It is a discipline, which means it's a choice, but it's something that the Lord does change our desires as we continue to do it.
Ashley Jackson:
Yeah. That's good.
Kaley Olson:
Yeah, absolutely. And we can set reminders to pray too. At Proverbs, we have this little music film that comes on us. Surprised we haven't heard it yet ... know if we were recording an hour later, we would hear it come over the speakers. But it's a reminder to us here on staff to pause and pray in those moments. Because sometimes we get so busy in our day, we forget to look up and do that. And so the discipline of developing that on-guard mindset is hard. But that's how it leads to praying without ceasing. So I'm so excited about this next series. And really, I know this was a little bit of a shorter introductory episode, but we wanted to establish why we pray without ceasing and what that is so that whenever we get into bigger topics, the power of prayer, and disappointment and anxiety, we have this foundation to build on.
So thank you, guys, so much for joining us today. I do have some announcements. So first, if you're not subscribed to the podcast or our P31 YouTube channel, please do that right now. Don't miss these next episodes. And, Megan, you're holding a really pretty book there. What do you have in your hands? Can you describe to the listeners?
Meghan Ryan:
Our latest study guide is called Praying Through the Psalms, 30 Days To Uncomplicate How You Talk to God. And so if you are looking for a resource to dive in deeper with us on this, we highly recommend this. Shae and I actually got to work together on this project with a few other people on our staff just about how do we talk to God and where in His Word does it show us how to do that? And we see the Psalms as a great place to start.
And so whether you are someone who feels like a seasoned prayer warrior or you're someone who's like, what is prayer, and why do I want to do it? This study will help you regardless of where you're at in your prayer journey ... as we said it was; it's a journey.
Kaley Olson:
Absolutely. Yeah. Can you read the title again?
Meghan Ryan:
Yes.
Kaley Olson:
Because I think they need to hear it one more time.
Meghan Ryan:
Praying Through the Psalms, 30 days To Uncomplicate How You Talk to God.
Kaley Olson:
I love it so much.
Meghan Ryan:
Yeah.
Kaley Olson:
OK. I'm going to close us in prayer because I think we need to pray.
God, we desire to want to pray with You. And we're so sorry for the times that we fall short. God help us not to get so stuck and feeling like we are failures, but remind us, God, that we can shake off that feeling at any time because You are not calling us a failure. You call us Your children, and You are there any time we need You, Lord. So, Lord, whatever hesitations we have, our friends listening have, our friends watching have, toward prayer, God, I just pray that You would help us to let those go, God, and to start small with prayer as we weave it into our everyday moments. And try our best to remember that You are here and that we can bring anything to You. God, we pray that You would bless this series, bless our listeners and those who are watching. And I just pray that they would learn something, Lord, and that it would plant a seed that becomes something really strong and powerful in their life one day, that they can look back on and just say, “Wow, I'm so glad that I committed to praying and learning how to do it more powerfully.” In Jesus’ name, amen.
All right, friends, at Proverbs 31 Ministries, we believe when you know the Truth and live the Truth, it changes everything. See you next time.