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A conversation about cars, trucks, tugs and other machines of transport that flows like an ADHD fever dream, hosted by Hoonigan co-founder and 321 Action Action director Brian Scotto. Enjoy, it’s gonna be a bizarre ride.
Episode 5 - Audio only
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[00:00:00] Speaker: What's up everybody? Welcome to another episode of Very Vehicular. This one is an interesting one. It is the strangest collection of Ferrari owners all in the same place. In this corner we've got the purest. A Ferrari mechanic works on the carb era cars, and on this side, this person stuffed a Honda engine in a Ferrari.
Yeah, we got Victoria Bruno and Mike Burroughs and me the reluctant Ferrari owner somehow sitting as referee as we watch these two, duke it out. Purism verse sacrilege. It's a great one. I enjoyed listening to them. You should too.
What's up guys? So we're gonna start, neither of you know each other like you literally met in my driveway.
[00:01:02] Speaker 2: Wait, there's someone else here.
[00:01:05] Speaker: Okay. We do not know each other. Hey, this is this. Is this our first? Hey, this is already off to a fantastic start. I love this. So, uh, Mike Victoria. Nice for you two to meet each other.
[00:01:14] Speaker 3: Yeah, nice to meet you. I'm excited for this. I know that, uh, we've got kind of like opposite ends of what might be a very interesting spectrum. So
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And I'm excited to see they're continuing this year with the new Travis Pastrana. Gymkhana Future Tech Glasses. These look rad. Plus they're super safe 'cause they live up to NC Z eight seven standards with two millimeter thick lenses. That's right. Safety glasses and shades all in one. The arms are wrapped in the Brad Livery, both inside and out.
And the hytrel nose pad makes these wearable all day long. Go grab your pair on he wave visual.com while they last spectrum zone. Well, let's just get that, let's just get the elephant in the room right out. All three of us own Ferraris, all of us own very different Ferraris. So what is sitting in my driveway right now?
A
[00:03:11] Speaker 2: 1987 Testarossa.
[00:03:13] Speaker: And you drove it from where?
[00:03:15] Speaker 2: The Bay Area,
[00:03:16] Speaker: which is like how many miles for those who don't know California
[00:03:18] Speaker 2: 400. Let's round up to 400.
[00:03:21] Speaker: Pretty impressive. And you also were just brave enough to go up against Los Angeles traffic on a Friday to get here, which is pretty incredible.
[00:03:30] Speaker 2: Yeah.
Thankfully this thing has cooling fans. Oh yeah, that's good. And 12 cylinders. So, you know, if one goes out, it'll be okay.
[00:03:36] Speaker: Yeah. And what and what do you got right now, Mike?
[00:03:38] Speaker 3: Um, yeah, I, I don't even know what to call it. It's kind of a, a 3 0 8. Okay. An 81 3 0 8 GTBI. What's left of one? Uh, it's a time attack race car with a Honda K series in the back of it.
[00:03:51] Speaker: So just first, just like, how does that make you feel? Are you okay with that? Um, you can be honest. This is an honest show. Please be honest
[00:03:57] Speaker 2: because it's a 3 0 8.
[00:04:00] Speaker: Perfect. Perfect. Yeah, that, that compliment's coming this direction with the back of the hand. It's, you know, I, but I'll take it.
[00:04:06] Speaker 2: Y you know, if it, if it were a Daytona or a 2 7 5 or a pretty much any two 50, I maybe would get up and leave.
[00:04:15] Speaker 3: That mean. Well, we, we will get into the details later.
[00:04:18] Speaker: We will get to that. So tell her about the other one. Let's see what she has to say
[00:04:20] Speaker 3: about that. Uh, yeah, the other project is I have, um, I have the body, an authentic F 40 body. I'm building a tube chassis underneath it, 4, 5 8, challenge suspension and geometry.
And then in the back of it, I'm cramming a eight 12 super fast V 12, along with a hauling or sequential gearbox building more or less a race car out of it. So
[00:04:45] Speaker 2: are you at all Italian?
[00:04:47] Speaker 3: No. In any
[00:04:48] Speaker 2: way, shape or form?
[00:04:48] Speaker 3: Honestly, I don't know. We were talking about our heritage before this and everybody always likes to tell me where they're from and like, I got no idea.
But I don't think so.
[00:04:56] Speaker: He doesn't, he doesn't look like one of us.
[00:04:58] Speaker 3: No.
[00:05:00] Speaker 4: Isolated him. Is that why you put him at the end?
[00:05:03] Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's fine. It's fine. Do you like, have, can you trace back where your family's from in Italy? Like, do you know I
[00:05:09] Speaker 2: can, yeah. Sicily and Naples. Oh.
[00:05:12] Speaker: Mine too.
[00:05:12] Speaker 2: We might be related.
[00:05:13] Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you know where in Naples?
[00:05:16] Speaker 2: I don't. Okay. No, my
[00:05:17] Speaker: family's from ISHKA and uh, and then also from Sicily. So yeah, same thing. So real good mob ties. That's pretty much that. Exactly. That's pretty much those places. My family
[00:05:25] Speaker 2: changed their name a couple generations back.
[00:05:27] Speaker: Oh, okay. So,
[00:05:28] Speaker 2: so wasn't confirm nor deny.
Yeah. My why, my
[00:05:32] Speaker: full name, as I said at the start of the, before we started the show is Scott o Dano, but it was really long for Scantron testing as a kid. So like I'm pretty sure he shortened it. Scott is also like a really good nickname. Most people just think my name is Scott and then like add an O to it.
So for like, there's people I've known for like two decades who actually just call me Scott. I'm like, that's not my name. But it's, it's okay. So not quite. Yeah. So anyway, obviously she's pointed out that you clearly lack not Italian at all. Yeah. So at any Mediterranean DNA no for that. So none of that. Is that blasphemous for you
[00:06:02] Speaker 2: that I'm so happy you used that word.
That's, I'd say nine times outta 10. The word I use to describe a sort of change that's, you know, maybe taken away from the integrity of how the car was when it left the factory.
[00:06:15] Speaker 5: Right.
[00:06:16] Speaker 2: But I've also, you have to remember, all of my experience is in preserving and restoring cars back to factory spec. We don't.
Mod anything. We don't change anything. Right. Maybe we'll hop up the cams a little bit, but we're really, really trying to kind of,
[00:06:32] Speaker: which means you also don't like my car 'cause mine's like, mine would be like the Putin NSCA of Ferrari three sixties.
[00:06:38] Speaker 2: Well, I think, see this is where, this is where the box needs to grow.
Um, I think there's a place for everything and I think I've spent a lot of time learning the history and the provenance of these cars. But I also think if you love something, then it should absolutely be the way that you love it. Mm-hmm. And it's fun to mod cars. It's fun to, you know, have go in those sorts of directions.
So I'm not, I'm not judging anyone. I'm not, my car's not better than yours because it's stock. Your car's
[00:07:11] Speaker: better than mine. Your car's better than mine. 'cause it's a tester and mine's like a risotto like spec, um, you know, 360 that's got an NGT kit on it that like started its life as a stock, you know?
[00:07:20] Speaker 2: Can we get that on a t-shirt?
[00:07:22] Speaker: What?
[00:07:24] Speaker 2: Otto spec, blah blah blah.
[00:07:25] Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. It's a, it's a full ricer spec Ferrari, but I love it. I love it. 'cause I like that it's loud and, and over the top. My wife hates it because it's red. Because she feels like it's supposed to be red. Come on. I agree. But she's not a Ferrari person to begin with. And then the fact that I bought a Ferrari and I also got it in red, like just, she likes under understated.
You've seen my house. She, she's a minimalist
[00:07:46] Speaker 3: fair. But to that point, what, because we were talking about this earlier, what is a Ferrari person? Are any of us Ferrari people? Are you a Ferrari guy? No,
[00:07:53] Speaker: not at all. Are you a Ferrari person? Absolutely not. Are you a Ferri person?
[00:07:57] Speaker 2: I'd say I'm a Ferrari person.
[00:07:58] Speaker: Oh, okay.
Yeah.
[00:07:59] Speaker 2: But do I have to be, do I have to be stuck with that title?
[00:08:03] Speaker: You can be whatever you want. Can I
[00:08:04] Speaker 2: evolve and grow and change? Of course. Will you all accept me if I do that?
[00:08:08] Speaker: Hopefully, yeah. I don't know. I think at the end of the day it
[00:08:11] Speaker 2: doesn't really matter. I mean, do whatever I want. I was like, so
[00:08:13] Speaker: we don't know each other either.
We literally met in my driveway, just met you. Said, Hey, I'm gonna be in la you wanna catch up? And I said, sure. You wanted to come on a podcast and get ambushed by us non Ferrari purist. Um, but I, I know you from Instagram and that you are Ferrari mechanic. Give us like a, just a quick background on that.
You don't have to go too long. Yeah. I'm sure you've told your story a thousand times before. There's a really good IG reel that gives the background and all that. But, but give it to those who don't have time to go look.
[00:08:39] Speaker 2: Sure. So I born, I was born and raised in la Obviously the car culture here is heavy, but I came from a family that was not interested in it at all.
So I was interested in it. I, you know, watched cool cars drive out the window of my mom's minivan, um, or drive, you know, down the street while I was looking outside of my mother's minivan. Um, and always just had a passion for it, but was kind of shut down when I was a kid. So I embraced it as something that I would pursue later in life and I didn't know what that looked like.
Fast forward, the pandemic hits, I'm miserable. I got laid off of my job as a waitress. I didn't know what I wanted to do and I asked myself probably the most important question to date, which is what's my passion? And I, it, it was working on vintage cars. I didn't know what that looked like. And
[00:09:23] Speaker: so you had a passion for something you had never done?
[00:09:25] Speaker 2: Yes.
[00:09:26] Speaker: Okay. I like that. I'm into it tr trust me, I got a passion for project cars I've never worked on. I'm,
[00:09:30] Speaker 2: yeah, I mean I think you, you know when you feel a connection to a connection to something.
[00:09:34] Speaker: Yeah.
[00:09:35] Speaker 2: And I was really interested in design and I thought I was gonna do something that maybe on paper is more artistic.
I thought I was gonna wanna do body work or metal fabrication. And then I went to school and instantly fell in love with engine rebuilding and basically all things mechanical. So I put all of my time and energy into, uh, really kinda expediting my growth as fast as I could because I was transferring into a four year program as a junior.
So I only had 18 months to develop a skillset that would allow me to be sufficient enough to be able to walk into a shop and work on cool cars. And so I just set the bar really high. I always loved Ferraris and it also was something that sounded impossible. So I just made that my goal. And then luckily when I graduated, I got a job at one of the best Ferrari mechanical restoration shops in the country, if not the world.
And
[00:10:25] Speaker: that's where the purism comes from, is working there.
[00:10:28] Speaker 2: Definitely. And I think with the school too, I mean they teach you restoration. They don't teach you resto mods. They teach you how to work on cars, how to do things sort of the right way. Not as far as mods go, but as far as just, you know, knowing when turning a bolt is, or knowing when you're going too far, when you're turning a, a nut or something like that.
Um, so the technical side, that's what I've been trained to do and that's what I have the most hands-on experience doing is that specific niche.
[00:10:57] Speaker: Oh, you are amongst the wolves right now. I was gonna say, have
[00:10:59] Speaker 3: you considered that maybe you are part of a cult that this could be indoctrination? Oh,
[00:11:06] Speaker 4: this is an
[00:11:06] Speaker: intervention.
[00:11:07] Speaker 4: My god. Yeah.
[00:11:08] Speaker: We're gonna have, you we're, how this is gonna end is I'm gonna hand you an impact wrench and you're gonna remove the intake cuff out the intake cuff from, are you there
[00:11:16] Speaker 6: Enzo
[00:11:17] Speaker: from my Ferrari? Um, no, I think it's actually really interesting 'cause I, I, I've worked on a lot of cars in my life and there's definitely like, Ferrari's live in this weird like black arts world where people like are afraid to work on them.
For example, I just got my Ferrari serviced at my Porsche shop, which is BBI because wait.
[00:11:36] Speaker 2: Why didn't I service it? My question? 'cause you
[00:11:38] Speaker: live, 'cause you live all the way up in That's actually where I bought the car from. I bought the car from San Mateo and drove it down.
[00:11:43] Speaker 6: Oh really?
[00:11:43] Speaker: Yeah. What? So when I got the car, I, I picked it up there and it was rad 'cause I took the one down, it took me 10 and a half hours to get home and it was, it's still probably like the most important day I've had with the car because like I bought it, I finally bought a Ferrari, drove down through Big Sir with my best friend Tony Harmer in the car.
And we just like cruised took our time to take really cool photos that were just dorky and you know, just like those moments. And um, yeah it was amazing just to like windows down, listen to it the whole way. It's still probably my peak moment of owning the car, which is kind of like owning a boat where the best day is the first day you own it and the last day you own it.
Which I guess it's probably similar for a lot of Ferrari, but you know, I've had a nine 11 now for, I don't know, since 2010. So like I definitely feel like more of a Porsche guy and I bought my Ferrari for a lot of different reasons. But one of the reasons was, is 'cause my nine 11 was getting an engine rebuild and I didn't have like that.
Like super cool car in my pack. So I was like 360, the price was dropping on them and I'm like, okay, I'm gonna buy one while, while they're dipping. 'cause like I've watched the Ferrari market since I was young and there's always this like math of the car's not cool enough, uh, old enough to be cool and vintage, but not new enough to be cool to like guys who want a new Ferrari.
Sure. And they hit this bottom and I watched it happen with the 3 55 and it went from like 40 grand to 150 grand in like five years. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna pick one up now. Like well
[00:13:05] Speaker 2: I think there's this stigma that is just attached to Oh yeah. Every Ferrari ever made, which is that it's really complicated.
It's a pain in the ass to work on. It's really expensive.
[00:13:15] Speaker: Yeah.
[00:13:16] Speaker 2: But I, but it
[00:13:17] Speaker: is, it is. Lemme just tell you the story. Air that last part's definitely changed. My air conditioning wasn't working and I was like, man, if I, if the AC worked in this thing, I'd probably drive it more. 'cause it's a fun car in the summer.
So I was like, I just need to get the air conditioning fixed. Uh, I was quoted $5,000 for a compressor and then found out that it's the exact same compressor that's in a Ford Transit and just got the Ford Transit compressor. And it's like, I think that's the part that scares people about Ferrari is things that, how much was the
[00:13:43] Speaker 3: transit compressor though?
[00:13:44] Speaker: $265. Like super cheap. She's, I could tell she's, she wants to get under the car right now and remove it Don, because I'm sure it wasn't me.
[00:13:52] Speaker 2: No, I don't Because Ferrari used GM smog equipment.
[00:13:54] Speaker: Yeah.
[00:13:54] Speaker 2: They didn't, they were like, why? Why would we design anything? Right. Well this already works. Let's just take, I have a GM alternator on my tester because that's what it was from the factory.
Right.
[00:14:03] Speaker: And also like they didn't care. Things that didn't matter for performance. They were okay to use something that was like tried and true. Sure. Right. Like they didn't care to make the ultimate compressor. But for me, even the Porsche shop was like, ah, there's just certain stuff we don't wanna do.
'cause like we don't have the specialty in it. Right. And I think that there is like Ferrari is one of the few brands where people are like, yeah, I don't work on that. Like, you have to know what you're doing. And you dived right into that space. You dived into the space where most mechanics are like, yeah, I don't want to touch that.
But you're like, yeah, I'm there. Because like my friend Vinny, do you know Vin? Vin Anatra? Yeah. Like I think he gets so much sort of like, I don't know if it's respect or whatever, but it's like he's one of the few people who like work on their three sixties and talk about working on it and like dive into stuff and just like figure it out.
And at the end of the day, Vinny's like, yeah man, it's just a car.
[00:14:50] Speaker 2: That's exactly how I feel. And I think also too, a lot of the people that have been working on these cars. Gatekeeper information. Mm-hmm. And at the end of the day, it's just nuts and bolts. It's gonna function the way any other internal combustion engine functions.
So I think if you have confidence in your own ability, then that should be enough to get you to do, to execute the job well. But also, I mean, same with any job. Stay humble enough to know when you need to ask for help.
[00:15:16] Speaker: Yeah. So Mike, um, because Victoria probably doesn't know your background at all and she just knows that you have created this blasphemous Ferrari.
Actually two of 'em. W why don't you just quickly, 'cause we could spend an entire podcast, Frank and
[00:15:30] Speaker 5: Ferraris, we
[00:15:30] Speaker: could spend an entire podcast just talking about your history and everything. Okay. And how you got here. But to me, like I kind of forget that you have a Ferrari because I know you for like the model A BMW project.
I know you obviously for rusty slamming tin. Like I, I know you for all the early stuff that you did that lived way more in sort of this euro meets hot rod space. Yeah. And now there's like this whole new audience of guys who know you because you are molesting Ferraris.
[00:15:57] Speaker 3: Um, no, I think that's really fair these days.
It is interesting to me that it feels like most people that I encounter as like my channel and audience grows have no idea that there's anything from the past or that I'm anything but like a big Ferrari guy, which is a running joke that everybody keeps calling me. I do not identify as a Ferrari guy.
Uh, I own them kind of by happenstance. Like the first one was intentional and the second one was an opportunity. Um, but yeah, I guess like my roots, I consider myself a diehard BMW guy. Like yeah. Through and through vintage BMW's from the 1980s. That's like, that's my thing. I literally bought another, uh, E 28 5 series.
Yes. Two days ago. It's my 15th one. Uh, so like, that's what I'm about. Um, how I got here, I don't know. I'm just, I'm just riding the wave of, of having fun. I like making weird cars, crazy projects. I don't think that anything is sacred. Um, and there are kinda like no rules. So that's, that's why I have these very oddball Ferraris.
[00:16:59] Speaker: And also before Mike was like known as a builder, he was a media guy 'cause he ran Stance Works, which was like, I don't know, one of the cooler websites I think for a long time. I'll give you that. No, I appreciate that because I think there was this period of time where that sort of build culture was blowing up on the internet and there was a lot of stuff out there, but I think you guys had like a very curated.
Sense of what to put in there. And it was also broader than what we were seeing. Right. And I'm not just saying that 'cause you guys covered my napalm nova, but it was also cool that you did, 'cause like most people would never have included a 72 Nova in that world. But because mine was slammed and different and had like, you know, a Japanese kind of flare to it, you guys saw it differently.
So Yeah.
[00:17:40] Speaker 3: I mean, so we had, uh, back in the day when blogs were a thing, if we all remember that, um, yeah, that's, that's, I miss
[00:17:47] Speaker: blogs, man.
[00:17:47] Speaker 3: I do too. It's, it bums me out. Nobody reads long format content anymore. Like, that's why I pivoted to YouTube. 'cause like I'd be pouring my heart and soul into writing things and then realizing like, oh yeah, like 15 people read this.
Cool. That was worth the effort. So I had to pivot at some point. But yeah, for, for well over a decade we ran a blog that I would say was successful and, you know, like left a mark in the, in the industry and community. And we tried to just celebrate anything that I thought was cool. That was like, that was the rules.
When Andrew and I saw something, if we thought it was cool, we were gonna share. It didn't matter if it was like a European car, like we were interested in, or if it was a hot rod or, you know, vintage race cars, whatever it was, restoration, anything that was cool. It's like, Hey, let's, let's share this thing, story.
[00:18:29] Speaker 2: I think that's red. But I think that's the really cool thing about the automotive industry is there really is space for everyone at every level.
[00:18:36] Speaker: Oh, for sure. And it's only getting bigger and bigger, which I think is interesting. Let, let's, it's actually, it brings up an interesting conversation because like Instagram has been very good to you.
I'm, you're on TikTok as well.
[00:18:47] Speaker 2: Just starting on TikTok and YouTube. Okay. But yeah. Um,
[00:18:50] Speaker: but like, Instagram's been very good to you, very kind in telling your story. Like, is that something that you saw as a pathway early on or were you just like, I wanna go work on Ferraris and it'd be cool to make some content about it?
Because you have very much been thrusted into sort of the creator space by telling stories about working on Fridays. Yeah.
[00:19:08] Speaker 2: Kind of by accident. Um, I think I, if I had seen some version of myself 10 years sooner, I would have 10 more years of experience. And so my goal in sharing my story was, um, to just let people know that it's an option, that one, you can follow your dream passion.
I know it's so cheesy, but it's true. Whatever it is you, that it's an option, you can pursue it. Mm-hmm. One, two careers in the trades are not of the past. You know, this is a thriving industry. It's only gonna continue to get bigger and bigger. And I wanted to expose, especially the next generation to the restoration industry.
Um, and three, I genuinely love my job. I love working on cars. I learn something new every day. I constantly run into issues. I'm really competitive and stubborn, so it's really great for me to have to fix things without, you know, solutions and have to come up with them. So I get a lot of fulfillment out of it.
So it was really more of a, i, I, I chose to start sharing my story because I, I. I just have so much passion for the path that I've chosen. Um, it, it, it just kind of came naturally.
[00:20:21] Speaker: But you enjoy the storytelling part of it too?
[00:20:23] Speaker 2: I do. I wasn't anticipating growing my page to the extent that it's, it's gone.
Um, so it was something that I initially almost sort of re rejected and wanted to backtrack on. Um, 'cause I kind of had a goal. I was like, okay, I'll, I'll go for 10,000 followers in one year. And just, you know, the goal is to encourage other people, inspire them to pursue their passions. Um, and then it kind of blew up overnight.
So. Yeah.
[00:20:51] Speaker: And how many followers do you have now?
[00:20:53] Speaker 2: Um, just under 200,000.
[00:20:54] Speaker: Yeah. You've done okay.
[00:20:56] Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. We're getting there. You've done,
[00:20:57] Speaker: you've done well. So, um, all right. Let, let, let's get into some things we can argue about. That's always, that's always kind of fun. So I, I wanna go back to sort of, I, I thought it was interesting when you said, oh, it's a 3 0 8, so let, let's, let's get some lists going.
Right? Um, uh, a thing I keep telling everyone, eventually I wanna do another podcast, which is a show called Firing Order, where we just basically bring people on to make a list and fight over it, right? Like,
[00:21:21] Speaker 3: I wanna be guest number one.
[00:21:22] Speaker: Yeah, I know. And that's why, like, we could do a version of it today, but like, this isn't the full blown show.
Like, in the future, I would give you your homework so you can do your research. You could come in like, guns loaded, ready to go right here. You're kind of, I'm just hitting you with it, so, you know, it'll be easy, but I, I like this as an idea. So what would you say. Are like the list of cars, list of Ferrari that it's okay to Franken Ferrari
[00:21:46] Speaker 2: 3 0 8 Mondial 360 3 55.
Really? Really? The eight cylinder cars.
[00:21:55] Speaker 3: Okay.
[00:21:56] Speaker 2: Um, yeah. And I think,
[00:21:59] Speaker 3: well then we're safe F forty's eight cylinder. Good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:22:03] Speaker 2: Um, I wouldn't mod a sort of true F 40 though, and I don't mean that as an insult to your, I, I, yeah. I don't, did not take it that
[00:22:12] Speaker 3: way. I have, um,
[00:22:13] Speaker 2: I just mean that as a, you know, numbers matching everything.
Og I, I couldn't tear that apart.
[00:22:21] Speaker 3: I could.
[00:22:23] Speaker 2: Good for you. I'd be losing sleep at night. Um, but no, I think, I think that list is, is there where it's just higher production cars? That's probably where I feel more comfortable with it.
[00:22:35] Speaker: Right.
[00:22:35] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[00:22:37] Speaker: Are like, what about the newer cars? Like where do you feel
[00:22:40] Speaker 2: that's the thing that is, so, is there a cutoff for you Outside of my wheelhouse,
[00:22:44] Speaker: like, like
[00:22:45] Speaker 2: the, the newest Ferrari that I've ever worked on is a 360.
[00:22:51] Speaker: Hmm. Okay. Well that's
[00:22:51] Speaker 3: why she didn't work on your car then.
[00:22:53] Speaker: Yeah, I know. She's, it's, well, she, I have it 360, but it's barely there. It's like, it's just, yeah. So have they sent you a cease and Desis yet?
[00:23:00] Speaker 3: No, that's the com That's the question I get the most. Yeah. Um, and I don't think that I'll hear from them.
I have not heard from them after, at this point, 150 episodes on my 3 0 8 and talking.
[00:23:11] Speaker: Maybe it's 'cause they don't care about the 3 0 8 though. Just like, and I don't, I don't think that they
[00:23:14] Speaker 3: do. And like I speak very poorly of how that car is built and that era of car and what have you. Um, very intentionally, only in one episode of my F 40 project have I called it a Ferrari, and that was episode one for the sake of like, Hey, I'm explaining what I'm doing here.
Ever since I avoided the F word. I call it an F 40. I do not call it a Ferrari. Um, because I think that they're gonna care about that car and I think I need to be careful about. Branding. When people get a cease and desist from Ferrari, it is only around two things. It is protecting their trademark and brand name or because you're making money off of their stuff, right?
If you're using their, their car and their brand on your merchandise, you're gonna hear from 'em. If you are using their name or what they feel might be threatening to their name, you're gonna hear from 'em. I will not be putting Ferrari badges on my F 40 because that would get me a letter. I cannot do that.
That would get me a c and d. Um, so I think that there's like different areas where I need to be careful about what I'm doing. Um, but so far no. And if I was gonna hear from 'em at this point, I would've like, I know plenty of people that have gotten Ferrari cease and desist, all of them with smaller audiences or views or what have you.
[00:24:29] Speaker: By the way, to me, like the whole cease and desist on like modifying your Ferrari is just like, just absolutely bonkers. But I don't
[00:24:37] Speaker 3: think that it's real. I think people like to pride themselves on because there's a lot of like ego to be had in being like, yeah, I got in trouble for modding my Ferrari, they don't like it, right?
Mm-hmm. Like, that's a cool thing to say. Let's, let's, right? Like, so
[00:24:48] Speaker: do you think it actually doesn't exist?
[00:24:50] Speaker 3: I think that people get cease and desist from Ferrari all the time, but like the most common example would be dead mouse. And he had that Ferrari that was wrapped in the, you know, like the rainbow and the cat and stuff.
And people love to be like, oh, Ferrari got upset with him 'cause he modified that car. It wasn't 'cause he modified the car, it's because he changed the badge to have a cat on it. And he called and it said Ferrari. Ferrari needed to protect their trademark, and they're gonna do everything they have to, to protect that trademark.
You know, they
[00:25:13] Speaker: are one of the most recognizable brands in the world. Absolutely. Like when you look at that list, it's, you know, Nike, Coca-Cola, Ferrari. So like, they have an incredible brand presence. So like, I get it from the brand side of this. They, they
[00:25:25] Speaker 3: need to protect it. And I'm, there's like a, a, a small chance there's gonna be, you know, one of these Ferrari lawyers sitting there like watching me talk with this confidence thinking like, all right buddy, yeah, watch this.
But I feel loosely confident in what I'm saying because at this point, after five years of publishing regular videos about these cars, I haven't heard anything. Do they not
[00:25:46] Speaker 2: own F 40?
[00:25:48] Speaker 3: Um, I am going to refrain from answering that because I'm not educated enough to really know what I'm talking about. But I, he also doesn't want this
[00:25:58] Speaker: podcast to be used in the des in the deposition.
[00:26:01] Speaker 3: So I don't, I don't, I don't know exactly what Ferrari owns with respect to that word. Um, but so far I have not heard c just
[00:26:10] Speaker: called the DFF 40, you know? Yeah. The F 40. The F 40. You
[00:26:13] Speaker 3: know, I think, I think if what I was doing was problematic, I, I have absolutely no doubt that I would've heard about it at this point.
So.
[00:26:22] Speaker 2: Fair enough. I know people that have, um, just taken the caval, Rampe the horse. Yeah. From the emblem and used it. And their logo, they work on Ferras. You can't do that. They got a c and d. Um, but I also know of somebody that changed their name, their last name to be Ferrari, so they wouldn't get a C and d Oh,
[00:26:39] Speaker 3: interesting.
Just because
[00:26:40] Speaker 2: they wanted that level of association. That's a little much, but
[00:26:43] Speaker 3: that one, that one is, but also respect.
[00:26:45] Speaker: I'm fully on the c and d for using the logo in the wrong way. A hundred percent. I mean that's obviously, that's like classic. I I would do the same. We used to c and d people at Hoonigan.
All the time. Like people would be like, oh, they would name something, something else, Kana. And it's like, yeah, you're getting a c cease and desist. Like, oh, we're calling it, you know, who again? Yeah. You're getting a cease and desist and, and sometimes we wouldn't even want to send it, but like, you have to, but you have to, if you don't protect your mark, then other people will come after you.
And like, that's kind of one of the, the things you have to do. So even if you're like, ah, I don't really mind, I mean, we dealt with it. I used to sit on the board of the Audi Club and it's like there was all these rules we had to deal with because even though it was the Audi Club of America, there was certain things we could use and certain things we couldn't, and certain marks, because at the end of the day, Audi has to protect their brand, you know, even though it's like this sanctioned thing, right?
So like, I get that. I, I think it's more of the, hey, you've painted your car, or you've put a wing on it, or you've put a body kit on it. Like, is that really happening? Or do you don't, you don't think it's actually happening. I
[00:27:41] Speaker 3: don't think that that happens. I think that that's a myth. I think that people get cease and desist because they've broken a rule tangent to what they've done to their car.
Like changing the
[00:27:48] Speaker: logo,
[00:27:49] Speaker 3: like changing the logo. Or maybe they've put a, like, let's say, um, maybe they're selling merch and they've put their Ferrari that they've modified on their merch. Mm-hmm. And Ferrari says, Hey, we own the trade dress of that. You can't do that. Or things like that. And I, I, I don't have an exhaustive list, of course, but I don't think outside of some circumstances.
That, that's what happens. Especially not with layman and their layman level cars like we have, like we could do whatever we wanted to that tester outside and we won't, but we could. And they're not gonna say anything about it. They're not gonna, they're not gonna care. Um, the only car that I'm aware of that had that problem is the F 40 barta.
A guy took one of the 19 LMS and he cut the roof off of it and turn it into this Roadster race car. And he went out and he was racing this thing. Now again, it could be more to it than because he, you know, bastardized that car. I don't know the details, but he was, he got a cease and desist. He had to remove the Ferrari badging from that car.
And Ferrari removed that car from their registry. It is no longer an lm So now there are 18 F 40 LMS now shunned. Totally shunned, totally hun,
[00:29:05] Speaker: for cutting your roof on. Yeah. You're like, you can't sit with us anymore. You're So is
[00:29:08] Speaker 3: that because he cut the roof off the car? It could be. I would get it if Ferrari said no.
That is one of our absolute halo pieces. We won't stand for that. And we want to do what we can to distance ourselves from that. Could be, I would get it. But also is there room for, have him to have done something that Ferrari needed to protect themselves and then maybe went overboard. There's also room for that too.
Will we ever hear the true story? I don't think so.
[00:29:34] Speaker 2: Yeah. But it's, it's interesting 'cause Ferrari's not coming after anybody that's. Cut up a 3, 6, 5 chassis to make it look like a cow spider.
[00:29:41] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
[00:29:42] Speaker 2: You know, that, that to them is okay because that chassis isn't sacred. But there's something about only so many existing, which I can understand, you know, wanting to really absolutely.
Be able to have control over the narrative there.
[00:29:57] Speaker 3: I just, I am, and again, I could be ignorant, like I'm not an authority on this stuff, but I'm not convinced that cars getting modified gets a cease and desist from Ferrari. I think, I mean, there are plenty of f forties out there. One of their, you know, big five or big six in this case get modified all the time and no one's getting barked at for it.
No one's getting in any hot water. Um, I just, I don't think for the most part, unless you're doing something they feel is justified in needing to protect, maybe even kinda like you said, where they have to protect their, their, their trademark or branding or what have you. Because if they don't, then they're gonna, they're gonna sacrifice their, their right ownership of it.
That's, I think that's when most of it comes in.
[00:30:40] Speaker: So we're saying that this is an urban legend for clickbait.
[00:30:43] Speaker 3: I, my opinion call out, just call it out, Mike. Absolutely. I, I hear people say, I got a cease and desist for, for what I did for surrounding their Ferrari all the time. And I'm over here saying, I think that's bullshit because I know I've done way more to my car and I ain't heard anything.
I have had, I have videos where I'm sitting here just tearing apart how this car is built, the welds, the quality of it, the welds. The welds. But like I can take my. 81 Ferrari and put it right next to my 82 Audi, which is like this, you know, bastard stepchild, a Volkswagen that didn't have this crazy budget to be made.
And that Audi is nicer in every single possible measurable way, period. The how it's built is better in every way. I don't care what aspect we're talking about. And when we're talking about a car that has similar production numbers to a 3 0 8 now, and I know that there's, there's more differences at play here.
Yeah. But like, it just leaves me, like when I get underneath that car or other cars that I'm not gonna name that are halo cars of theirs of the same era. They're not nice. They're not nice underneath.
[00:31:56] Speaker: All right. You have 30 that's not targeted. You wanna, you wanna pop outside and go, have 30 seconds go under my, I know what it looks like underneath Victoria.
You got 30 seconds for rebuttal. We're on the debate show now. Oh
[00:32:07] Speaker 3: my gosh. Let me ask this. Do you think your car is nice underneath?
[00:32:10] Speaker 2: I actually do think my car is nice underneath from
[00:32:13] Speaker 3: a, from your craftsmanship and cleanliness perspective or from Ferrari's?
[00:32:18] Speaker 6: I think
[00:32:19] Speaker 3: because I think you could do absolutely everything.
Meticulous restoration of a lifetime. You could like, let's call it a million dollar restoration on your car. And I still think that it would be garbage underneath.
[00:32:31] Speaker 2: I don't think that's the point though. I think that's why I love my car so much, and that's why I'm going to drive the hell out of it. Take it from 14,000 miles to 114,000 miles.
It's because they're meant to be used that are not meant to be perfect.
[00:32:46] Speaker 3: I, I'm cool with that part, but that's, that also, I think that's great also means that
[00:32:49] Speaker 2: craftsmanship, I mean, restoring something to, at the shop, we don't take cards apart and put them back together and make them perfect. If anything, if they're, you know, competing at a concor, they're gonna be, they're, they're gonna have points deducted for over restoration because it's not about being perfect, it's about being what it was.
And I think it's okay that it wasn't perfect.
[00:33:14] Speaker 3: I'm, I'm not striving for perfect. I think that there's like a level of like what I would call like acceptable craftsmanship. That when the car community as a whole, we all put Ferrari on a pedestal. It's like, it's the number one. I think we probably all feel that way in some regard and that is like across the board, it's the number one brand.
It's the big dog. When we put these cars on this pedestal, I expect there to be some level of. Craftsmanship that I haven't found in some of these older cars yet.
[00:33:50] Speaker: Let, let me ask a question there, 'cause I know that this is one while maybe slightly feels like a hot take. A lot of people have said this before, A lot of people have called out and I have a lot of journalist friends, so I won't mention who've called this out and then been uninvited to drive any future Ferrari afterwards.
Right. Um, but to me, 'cause I own a bunch of German cars, so I was born and bred on German level engineering, which is like usually over complicated and almost like too good. Um, but with a Ferrari, I feel like what's important for the Ferrari is sort of in reverse from what's important to a German car.
Like for example, I, I'm just gonna say this and I think the most important part of a Ferrari is the sound, which is like why I was happy when you chose the engine for the, for your F 40 because I'm like, okay, it's still gonna have that sound right. Absolutely. My 360 is not fast compared to my other cars.
My nine 11 right here would destroy my Ferrari, right? Um, a lot of my other cars, a lot of my Audis would destroy my Ferrari. Um, my van might be faster than the Ferrari, but nothing sounds cooler. Like there is a, there is. And like, I hate to be this, 'cause I know that this is, so, this is like, so, um, romantic cliche and romantic to talk about the paste and all of that.
But like to me, like there's just something about the way the Ferrari sounds, there's something about the way it looks, right? And I, I don't actually like modern Ferrari, but like we're now in a world where like, there's so many super cars and there's just certain cars that like, don't do it for me. I know McLaren is a fantastic vehicle, but like visually it doesn't speak to me Sure.
The way a 3 55 does. Right. Like I think the 3 55 is a beautiful car and it probably has a lot to do with my age, but, um, I love how my 360 looks. I love how a scud looks. I mean the, the, the F 40 is such an amazing car. My son, uh, he just turned six and for his birthday he asked for a Franklin Mint F 40 that he saw in a thrift store, right?
And like, this is a toy that came out in 1989 and was that, I remember as a kid, and like he, it's not even a toy, it's a collectible. And it's like, what is it that this 6-year-old. Living today, season F 40 and is still like, this is perfect. And he loves it. It's his like, favorite toy now. Especially 'cause all the things open up in the, you know, you can like, yeah, there's actually like carpet on the floor, which is kind of cool.
Like of the model. It's really nicely done, but it's like, what is it about the, the visual of a Ferrari that just speaks to people. And I, and I think that that is always going to be the argument from the other side because like, yeah, I got underneath the 360 the other day while they were dealing with the air conditioning stuff and it's like, it feels really rudimentary underneath.
There's a lot of stuff that you're like, ooh, like that's, like, that looks not as well crafted as on my Volkswagen, which is crazy to think about. 'cause my Volkswagen was a fraction of the price when that came out. Sure. Um, but I don't, I I think to her point, and I, I want you to kind of either back me up or argue with me on this, is that like, that's just not what the ownership of a Ferrari's about, but I get But what you're saying is, is for the pedestal, it's on, it should be.
Sure. Victoria, do you wanna
[00:36:55] Speaker 3: chime in
[00:36:56] Speaker: on that? Yeah. Before he goes because he, he is, he's just chomping at the bit.
[00:37:00] Speaker 2: I think we're forgetting something. And again, it's kind of cliche and Brian mentioned it is the passion behind it. And that's why I chose to, to, you know, to. Put all of my heart and all of my energy into becoming, or, you know, trying to become an expert in the mark, um, or as a technician, um, is because there's that passion and that poise and engineering that dates back to, you know, the late alpha days.
And Ferrari wasn't making cars because they were trying to be the best. They were just trying to, um, or not, sorry, not because they weren't trying to be the best. They, it was because they weren't trying to be perfect. They were trying to evolve and trying to grow. So they would cast engine blocks without assigned chassis numbers just because they wanted to see what worked and what didn't.
They didn't have, you know, this elaborate plan to sure grow and evolve and be perfect. They were just actually getting out there and doing it. And so I think that says a lot, um, to, I mean, how many of us don't pursue our passions because we're too scared or we're afraid of looking stupid? I don't think they've ever been afraid of looking stupid.
I think them being able to take that step and take that leap that speaks to that passion of the mark. And I think that's why I love it, is because they're not ashamed to be what they are.
[00:38:23] Speaker 3: Okay. I can, I can respect that. I'm, I, I want, I wanna also like make, I'm hearing Sure. I'm hearing
[00:38:29] Speaker: I can agree to disagree.
[00:38:31] Speaker 3: Yeah. I, because I'm, I, I do have some points that I think are, are, are important for me to also put out there that are in, in the same vein. First and foremost, I wanna apologize that if this podcast and being associated with the things that I have to say about this stuff gets you blacklisted for the rest of your career.
My bad. You know, it, it, that, that's gonna suck. But, um, okay. So first of all, I think a lot of people are gonna misconstrue my criticisms about Ferraris as some sort of disdain or um, like,
[00:39:08] Speaker: well, especially coming from a big Ferrari guy 'cause you're now a big Ferrari guy. Yeah.
[00:39:11] Speaker 3: There's, there's no disdain for the brand.
I really think it's important to be critical of the things that I enjoy, like across the board. And so I have a lot of respect for Ferrari and one of the things that I like most about the cars that I have or the pieces of the cars that I have is the fact that these cars exist because Ferrari needed to fund their racing program.
Mm-hmm. They don't exist for any other reason. This is like, Hey, we gotta sell some cars so we can go racing. And I think that is as cool as it gets. And so I use that as what I think is an admitted justification for why I'm okay with the fact that if I get underneath an F 40. And look at it analytically.
It's not well built. It's just not like, that's not a, that's not, that doesn't take away from the car. That doesn't mean that I think that I am better. Like I, if I say that in an episode, I get comments that say, who are you to think that you can say that? Or when I say, oh, I'm gonna make my F 40 an improvement over the original, and they'll say, who do you think you are to think you can improve upon that car?
And it's like, well, I'm speaking objectively. Like if you, if you find the romance of what that car is to be the most important part of it, awesome. I think that the way that it looks and the way that it sounds are the two most appealing parts of that car. I own my 3 0 8 because I think it's one of the most beautiful cars ever made.
Even though it's like this bottom tier Ferrari. I would put it in the top three prettiest Ferraris. I'd put it in the top 10 most beautiful cars ever made. To me, I think it's gorgeous because from that belt line up, it is an F 40 and from the belt line down, and, uh, you can see it's roots as, I mean, it is direct lineage, uh, uh, 3 0 8, 2 88 F 40.
They are three steps of the exact same platform. Um, I, I love the way that car looks and I saw one, I don't know at this point. 15 years ago when my stepdad was like, Hey, I think I might, I'm kind of re, you know, get into this like retirement concept. I kind of want a cool car. I'm gonna buy a 3 0 8. And they were like 20, 25,000 bucks.
And that got me thinking, man, I, what if I, I was in college, like, what if I could pull together $25,000 and have a Ferrari? This would be sick. I could not pull together 25,000 at the time. But that planted that seed and I knew I wanted that car. And then five years ago I realized if I sell what I have, I could, I could get one and I wanted one.
And I, I love that car. Let's talk about the sound then. If we're talking about Ferrari sound, the 3 0 8, ain't it. It does not make the sound that people think that when, when, I would say like the average, and that sounds critical, but like the average car enthusiast, when you think about a Ferrari V eight, they're gonna think of that 3 55 and later sound, that snappy, um, flat plane sound that
[00:42:00] Speaker: fast revving.
Yeah. Yeah. I, yeah.
[00:42:02] Speaker 3: The 3 0 8 does not sound that way. Not any variant of it. Two valve, four valve, none of it. It has a pretty and respectable sound, but I don't think that it's, the sound from that car is worth riding home about it. It is, it is nice to hear behind you. It has a very pretty induction noise.
It sounds like a classic overhead valve V eight.
[00:42:25] Speaker: Do you think the K is a better sounding engine?
[00:42:27] Speaker 3: No, I didn't, I didn't pick the K for its
[00:42:29] Speaker: sound.
[00:42:30] Speaker 2: But that's not the car that defines the mark. It's, that's the car's that people think of when they think of a Ferrari.
[00:42:35] Speaker 3: Uh, for, for a lot of people, only because of Magnum pi, I would say that it is like, it's probably one of the most famous and like widely acknowledged and recognized first.
You
[00:42:45] Speaker 2: heard it here first, the three Oh eight's the most famous and widely recognized. I gotta say though, I
[00:42:50] Speaker: gotta say though, like he does make a strong argument that Magnum PI was so influential in the eighties. No, totally. And like, I mean,
[00:42:57] Speaker 2: but also, so was Ferris Bueller's day off? True, true.
[00:43:00] Speaker 3: But that, that also makes that car one of the most recognizable.
There are things that make these cars recognizable. And again, I'm not saying that 3 0 8 is the best of, of anything at all, nor should it be representative of the mark whatsoever. I'm explaining. I when, so I get a lot of criticisms by people saying, how could you take the soul out of that car?
[00:43:22] Speaker: I can only imagine, like, just, I wanna pause on this for a second.
How much real hate have you gotten? Because I do think that there is, is a cult-like level of Ferrari owners who feel that you should never change it. I think we have one sitting at the table. No.
[00:43:35] Speaker 2: Hey. Whoa. Okay. We can come back to this. I'm kidding. Kidding. I'm kidding.
[00:43:40] Speaker: But like you do, I think, like I've definitely heard a lot of people sort of be like, I can't believe you're doing this, or it's no longer a Ferrari or whatever.
Like, I think that
[00:43:49] Speaker 3: there's,
[00:43:50] Speaker: does that like change the way you think about it? Or you No, not at all. Or does that actually fuel you a little bit?
[00:43:54] Speaker 3: I, I don't, it doesn't fuel me. Like I don't care. Um, I, I love to argue clearly here we are. Um, and so like, I love getting in the YouTube comments and like, you know, if somebody is what I would say, like brash to me, I take that as the liberty.
I'm gonna be brash back to you. Like, if you're gonna open that door, I'll, I'll give it back to you. I think that's fun. Um, and I get criticisms for doing that too, but it's like, Hey, there's like, this is a car community, we're gonna do this, but it doesn't, like how much real hate do I get for it? Not a ton.
Like, not in terms of anything outside of like, negative YouTube or Instagram comments, like, people that go beyond that is very rare. Every once in a while I'll get like an email or like a, you know, something weird where it's like, oh, you're, you're kind of crazy.
[00:44:37] Speaker: Yeah. You probably haven't been on f chat lately, but Sure.
[00:44:40] Speaker 3: I'm, can I, can I ask
[00:44:41] Speaker 2: you a question?
[00:44:42] Speaker 3: You can,
[00:44:42] Speaker 2: with your builds, what, what's your goal with, not, not your Ferraris, but with every car that you've worked on as a human being, as a craftsman, what's your goal when you work on a car?
[00:44:56] Speaker 3: I would say that there are two. One is to make whatever I think is like the most bitching thing possible at the time.
And then two would be to like further my, crafting it better at what I do.
[00:45:06] Speaker 2: Okay. Then plain and simple. I think that's amazing. That's commendable, truly. And so if you are checking your boxes and you're doing your thing and you are happy, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what any of us think. No, I'm or say
[00:45:22] Speaker 3: no, I'm and I, but again, I'm not concerned with that.
[00:45:23] Speaker 2: Right, right, right. But I'm just saying from my end, it doesn't matter if you chopped up a ferri. I'm not mad at you for doing that. I don't think that it's blasphemous. I think that you should be able to do whatever you wanna do with your car
[00:45:36] Speaker: because it's a 3 0 8,
[00:45:37] Speaker 2: because it's a 3 0 8. If it was a F 40
[00:45:41] Speaker: or an end zone, if it was,
[00:45:42] Speaker 2: I think if it was something that had.
A lot of value and a lot of significance. Um, then it would be painful to see
[00:45:49] Speaker: this roadside story. Time interruption is brought to you by my good friends at FCP Euro. A few years back I went to Germany and I bought my dream car, a 1994 Audi R two. I just love this thing. It's great. It's fast built by Porsche but it's also high mileage.
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And uh, the RS two barely smokes at all. I recommend it. And I've also put it into a bunch of my other vehicles. 'cause let's be honest, you guys know most of my cars they smoke. So this is sort of a great product for me. I also use a bunch of other Qua Molly stuff and you can find all of that@fcpeuro.com as well as a bunch of other Euro parts.
As I mentioned before, if it wasn't for FCP Euro, most of my cars would probably not be on the road. So thanks guys. Alright, so let me ask you a question. Do you feel like the actual. Value of a Ferrari is directly related to how cool it is. And, and I, I ask you that in like a two part one to like just Ferrari enthusiasts in general and then also like to your own likings.
'cause the next question that's coming is I think what all of our favorite Ferrari's are. And I will tell you that price is not connected to mine. But like for you, do you feel like the actual value is that driver?
[00:47:32] Speaker 2: I think this is probably the best example I can give you a two 50 luso, a two 50 short wheel base.
Short wheel bases are 10 to 12 million. Luso is are one maybe really, really nice one's. 2 million underneath. It's the same car.
[00:47:51] Speaker: Which one do you like better?
[00:47:52] Speaker 2: I would rather have the luso.
[00:47:54] Speaker 4: But
[00:47:55] Speaker: why
[00:47:55] Speaker 4: the,
[00:47:59] Speaker 2: because the experience. Maybe people are gonna come after me. I it's, it's close enough. Mm-hmm. You can use it, you can thrash it. And granted obviously it's still a million dollar car, but it's not a $10 million car. So I wouldn't feel, uh, like I was harming my investment if I was driving around El Luso consistently.
Um, because that's what I planned of all the cars that I have. And again, I'm just getting started. I just bought my first Ferrari. I don't have any other. Cool cars.
[00:48:34] Speaker: By the way, I, you said this before, I'm just gonna hit you with it. Now. You realize how crazy it is to say that you just bought your first cool car and your first cool car is probably in the top 10 list of coolest cool cars ever.
Because even if the tester may not be at the top of the list for, uh, everybody, I would say at least for my like generation, like there's nothing cooler than a, than a tester. Like the tester was just such a cool vehicle. Right. And
[00:49:02] Speaker 2: pretty iconic will give you that. It's extremely iconic
[00:49:04] Speaker: that for me, that and the Kunta are like those like genre creating,
[00:49:11] Speaker 2: they kind of defined the era vehicles.
Like they are
[00:49:13] Speaker: the archetypes of a modern supercar, right? Where the previous cars lived in this weird sports car world. Those cars were, this is what a supercar is supposed to be.
[00:49:23] Speaker 2: But I mean, I mean, and maybe to kind of bounce off to the, the loose over versus the short wheel base, the Testa versus the five 12 tr Yeah, five 12 TRS are half a million dollars.
And obviously there were some, you know, amplifications made and some like some, uh, body changes as well. But I would rather have the tester Rosa. It's the experience is close enough for less money. Why would I, I, I, I'd rather take that, you know, whatever the gap is there. Mm-hmm. And put it toward another cool car instead of having all of that locked up in one car.
[00:49:56] Speaker: Oh, I, I 100% agree. So, okay. What are your three favorite Ferraris? Like what do you think of
[00:50:00] Speaker 2: all time? Of
[00:50:01] Speaker: all time?
[00:50:02] Speaker 2: 500 TRCs. Okay. Incredible race cars. Um, I would say two 50 Luso and just because I own it and I have just a gross emotional connection to it now, the tester,
[00:50:19] Speaker: you, what are yours?
[00:50:22] Speaker 3: I mean, I guess,
[00:50:25] Speaker: I mean, you already said the 3 0 8 is on that list, right?
Yeah.
[00:50:27] Speaker 3: I mean, I would say like, obviously I love the 3 0 8, if we exclude it since I have it. Um, I mean like F 40, the, I mean that's, that's an obvious one. Like, that's, that's the number one. Um, I would say a 5 51 or five 50 GT one like Prodrive car. Mm-hmm. That would be, that would be up there for me. That's a, that's a super cool car.
Yeah. That's like in the type of thing that I like and. I think they're super bitching. Um, and I guess because of, like I said, the, the F 40 and 3 0 8 lineage, like the 2 88, that's the other, that's the other like really good looking one to me. Um, I'm not, I'm not into the vintage cars. They don't, I mean, like, I respect 'em.
I think they're really cool. They don't do a ton for me. Like that's not something that I'm ever gonna be, if I had all the money in the world, that wouldn't be on the list of things like I felt like I needed to spend money on. Um, yeah, I don't know. But again, like back to our initial point, like I'm not a Ferrari guy.
[00:51:26] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[00:51:27] Speaker 3: So it's, it, this isn't like the, this isn't a list of cars that I feel like I need to own or that I would be chasing if I had a million dollars tomorrow to spend on a project. I tell you, I would be buying, like my, my Halo car is a, is a BM BMW M1. And one of my favorite kind of aspects of that is, is that they're quite rare.
They're pretty expensive. They're not crazy, you know, depending on what you find, five to $800,000 for a, a road car. Um, if I could get my hands on one, I would not hesitate whatsoever to cut it up. I would turn it to a pro car. I would, I would, I would chop the fiberglass body right up, no hesitation. Like I'd wanna make it what I like, like that's what the car is there for, for me is like, hey, that's, that's it.
This one, I, I got my hands on it. It exists for me to do what I like. Um. Have you always been that way? I think so. I mean, I think if we go back on my list of projects, I mean even like the first one. Oh no,
[00:52:31] Speaker 2: I mean like when you were a little kid.
[00:52:33] Speaker 3: Uh, no. 'cause I mean, I, I wasn't even into cars until I was like 15 and, and realized I was gonna get a driver's license soon.
And then I was like, oh, Honda Civics are sick.
[00:52:42] Speaker: Let me ask you a question, 'cause I, I just had this thought the other day. When you got Legos as a kid, did you follow the instructions and build what the kit was? Or did you make your own thing?
[00:52:49] Speaker 3: So I use, in like every interview that I have done, I, there's a few different analogies that I use.
Mm-hmm. And one of them is always about Legos as it, it relates to, clearly I
[00:53:00] Speaker: don't listen to enough interviews to do,
[00:53:01] Speaker 3: that's, you don't need to. Um, but the one, one, the Lego one relates to how I view cars and what I find interesting about them. Now my analogy's a little bit different, but I say when I got Legos as a kid, or even now, I'll build what it was that it was supposed to be.
You know, I like following the instructions and making a thing. Once I built it, I didn't, I didn't build it to play with the finished toy. The, the whole point of it was, was the build process and once it's done, it gets disassembled and then becomes something else. And then it's, and then you go through and now you have all these blocks and bricks to play with.
Um, it was never about the finished product. Do I like driving my cars? Absolutely. That's like, that is a very big part of this hobby. If I had to choose between. This fantasy garage where every car I could ever dream of was in it done exactly the way that I want, down to the details, the mods, the everything.
And I never had to turn a wrench or a bolt and I could drive any of them at any time. Or I had a garage where I could build anything I, I, I want, but I could never drive it. I would pick the ladder, like no question. I don't like, I don't wanna say I don't care about driving cars because I do, but to me, I, I like to make things.
This is a, cars are a creative outlet for me. And, and I don't wanna say nothing more, but like that is the point for me. And so I think that is part of my focus when I do harp on what some of these Ferrari look like underneath, I take pride in doing the best that I can. And so when you say, what, what, what's the point of this for you?
And I say, well, I wanna make something really cool and I wanna, I wanna push my craft. Now if I look at Ferrari, I had hope that somebody there had the same idea of like, I wanna push our craft. I wanna get better and better. Now there are economies of scale and there's 40 years between me and when my car was built.
And I get to stand on the shoulders of giants that allow me to know what I know. I'm not independently, uh, good at what I do. Uh, I have learned from a lot of people. But if me as a guy in the garage, 'cause that's all I am, if I can, if I can make something well. And I can, I can put effort and energy into making it as good as I can.
I want to hold other people to the same standard. So
[00:55:21] Speaker: it's interesting 'cause I feel like you and I are very similar in that way, right? Like when handed something like a car, you and I both look at it as like a blank canvas, right? Or for the purpose, I'll say in Latin, right, Tablo Rosa. Um, where you look at the car as the finished art, like, you're like, oh, it's already perfect.
And me and him are like, oh, we should paint this white and get started. Right? Um, because I too, like you just enjoy the process of it, right? I, I have this one project car I've never told anyone about, so I'll lay it out right now I have this one project car. That I plan to take 10 to 15 years to build because it's just this thing I want everybody know knows about the Audi?
No, this is, I have a E type. Okay. And which, you know, is the car that since we're on the Ferrari conversation, Enzo said it is the most beautiful car ever made. Right? Yeah. My father had an E type. I found an E type, it's actually a crazy story. Um, it was in the background of an ad for Lowrider parts and it was under a bunch of moving blankets.
And I just recognized the silhouette and I asked, you know, Hey, is the car in the background for sale? And he said, oh, I'm about to cut it up to take the rear suspension out. You know, I'll sell it to you for what the rear suspension's worth. So I got a killer deal. Um, but I want to build this thing like you, like it's probably, it probably will not have a Jaguar engine in it.
Like it'll be a complete like abomination to people who like Jaguars. But it's this project that I don't even know if I really ever care to drive it. Like I just have this dream of like, this is the car that I want sitting, you know, up on blocks for the next 10 years I get to work on every day. Like I really enjoy that part of it.
Like, and I enjoy the paper build. I enjoy all those pieces. And I feel like you are similar, but for you, you really enjoy them like as intended. Right.
[00:57:03] Speaker 2: Yes. Yeah. I mean, and like I said, I think yeah, if you wanna cut it up, cut it up. But so let,
[00:57:08] Speaker: let's talk about that. What, like, let's just say like, the game we have to play is like, you have to build a car and mod it, right?
Like you have to And it
[00:57:15] Speaker 6: has to be a Ferrari.
[00:57:16] Speaker: It has to be, yeah. 'cause otherwise we're gonna crush a ton of cars you love, right? So like, there, it's like bullet to the head kind of game. Except instead it's like all these priceless vintage cars like about to get crushed or you have to build a modified Ferrari.
What does it look like?
[00:57:30] Speaker 6: What does it look like? Yeah. Yeah. That like, like, like,
[00:57:33] Speaker: like, like walk us through the build real quick. And it, and it has to be, it can't have a, what is,
[00:57:37] Speaker 3: what is your Ferrari hot rod and don't like. Okay. So I wanted to jump in a second ago and say like, you know, you agree that some Ferraris, it's okay to do, do this to them, to to hot rod them, to, to bastardize them.
I would argue it's okay to do it to any of them. Like not, I genuinely, like, I don't want to subscribe to the idea that anything is so sacred that we don't do that. Now, that's not to say that there are cars that I would own, that I would not modify because sometimes there is value ascribed to like special things.
But as a whole, like I want to use the F 40 as an example. There are a lot of them. There's 1300 and some out of them. That's a pretty big production run for a car that's worth at this point, three or $4 million. It is for many people the number one car period. Like if we go to cars and coffee, I bet 50% of people there would say F 40 is the, is my number one.
[00:58:28] Speaker 5: Yep.
[00:58:30] Speaker 3: I, if I had the money to acquire an authentic original car and then cut it up, I would do it. And all I would've kept from it are the parts that I currently have. I only want the body from it, and I would've saved this much chassis with a stamping on it so that I could say it began as a real one. And I have the title for it just to cement authenticity.
But beyond that, I do not care about any of the rest of that car. It has no value to me.
[00:58:57] Speaker: I think Victoria is disassociating herself from this situation right now,
[00:59:00] Speaker 2: I think.
[00:59:01] Speaker 6: I think
[00:59:01] Speaker 3: we just
[00:59:02] Speaker 2: live in different worlds and that's okay.
[00:59:04] Speaker 3: I wanna invite you over to this world. I want to, I wanna come play in the come play in the sandbox.
What would you do? Oh my God. If you had
[00:59:09] Speaker 2: to, that's the thing is mess with
[00:59:11] Speaker 3: one. What would you do?
[00:59:12] Speaker 2: I don't, I haven't spent any time thinking about this ever. This has never been a, oh, what would you do? I actually spent zero amount of time doing this. This could be the moment where it's, if I'm going to put this out in the world, it needs more thought.
I can't just, I have to, I have the gate. Keep it or, okay, let, let, let's flip, let's flip this back to, or I have to do it behind the scenes and then unveil it to the public. So let's,
[00:59:38] Speaker: let's flip this back to Mike. You have to do a perfect nut and bolt restoration. What car would you do it to? And you can't modify anything.
You have to just enjoy the car for how it was originally intended. What car would that be if you had to build it? If I could acquire, and it doesn't have to be a Ferrari, 'cause I know that Ferrari isn't your your thing, maybe it's A BMW or something.
[00:59:55] Speaker 3: If I could acquire an M1 Pro car, one of the actual pro cars used in the Pro Car series, I would not have a desire to modify it because part of what makes it special to me is that it is a factory race car.
Each one of them was driven by a Formula One driver. Mm-hmm. Like if I could get my hands on one of those cars, I would have an interest in, I would really enjoy the process of going through and trying to make it perfect as it was. I wouldn't want to like retrofit, modify. I'd wanna make it perfect so like I can understand the appeal, but that appeal gets lost on me when it becomes just one of the average normal cars.
[01:00:33] Speaker 2: Have you driven one of those?
[01:00:34] Speaker 3: Yes.
[01:00:36] Speaker 2: And, and
[01:00:36] Speaker 3: it is way better than my Ferrari.
[01:00:40] Speaker 2: But my point here is you have that experience, you, you have that connection. You had that time to say this is perfect as it is. And there's probably something about it that's not perfect.
[01:00:52] Speaker 3: I wanna make sure I clarify, but you're overlooking that I have not driven a pro car.
[01:00:56] Speaker 2: Oh, you haven't?
[01:00:56] Speaker 3: No. I've driven, I've driven an M1, but I've not driven a pro car.
[01:00:59] Speaker 2: I've had the privilege of driving hundreds of millions of dollars worth of Ferraris.
[01:01:05] Speaker 3: Yes,
[01:01:06] Speaker 2: those experiences are part of what defines my perspective. So I would love to come back to this conversation and hear you after you've driven an M1 Pro car or even a vintage for driving a cow spider or a 500 TRC.
But I, and tell me, I do not
[01:01:22] Speaker 3: care how the M1 PRO car drives that has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on my interest in the car or preserving it
[01:01:30] Speaker: because, and I think this is, this is really interesting because I think that I really enjoy modifying cars, but I'm often one to admit that by modifying them, I ruin them.
Right? Like I think that both things can be true. I think you can enjoy modifying a car and making it your own. And you can also realize that by modifying it, you've ruined it. Vinny just gone, Vinny's 360 is a perfect example. He destroyed that car, he destroyed it. It was good, but it's
[01:01:58] Speaker 6: sick. So it
[01:01:59] Speaker: looks cool.
Yeah. And, and he's made it his own. And it's like Oslo Blue. But, but also
[01:02:04] Speaker 2: too, I work in the world where everything's about maintaining value. 'cause these things have such a high price tag. Yeah. So, but does that
[01:02:12] Speaker 3: disappoint you at all when like, so, like when I talk to people about cars of value and the value of cars, and don't get me wrong, there is purpose behind preserving some value in cars.
I have not lost money on a single car in my life so far across the board. Haven't done it yet. I will lose money when I go to sell my blue F three 50 outside 'cause it's just a stock normalish truck. So I. The idea of preserving some level of value or being smart about what you're doing. Cars don't always have to be a bad financial decision.
However, I really don't like the idea of basing decisions on, oh, we have to preserve this car, the value of it, what have you.
[01:02:53] Speaker: Can I jump in here for a second? Because this is something that I actually really appreciate. Like, have you been to Goodwood Festival Speed?
[01:03:00] Speaker 2: Yeah. Or not? No, I've, uh, been to the revival.
[01:03:02] Speaker: Okay. So revival also, I mean, actually revival almost better because like they're really going after it on the revival. And I, I, I love watching members meeting. I love watching revival because that's how the cars were intended. Yeah. And like I do see, like there's the value there and I think that, and I, and I wanna make sure that like, we don't conflate that because this is definitely, I feel bad Victoria's like I'm here as the purest defending an entire thing that I don't think she entirely stands behind.
But, um. I think that there's also a huge split in that community. 'cause you have the people who only look at it as investment. I think you have an entirely new group of people who've entered the automotive world that treat cars like stocks and bonds, right? Like they're just buying 'em because it's capital gains sort of gray area, right?
Um, but then you have people who buy these cars and they wheel them door to door at things like the good revival. And you're like, that is one of the coolest things I've ever seen, because that car is worth more money than I've ever made in my life. And you are putting it off and you're having a good time doing it.
And like, there's something really cool about seeing that get, you know, that that happened. And I think that the motorsport side of it is where, like, I fully understand the purest thing. Like that car would be, it would be less cool to watch someone wheel that car with like a modern brake system or, um, or fuel injection.
It is cool because it is as originally intended from that time.
[01:04:24] Speaker 3: I, I think that there's room, sorry, just,
[01:04:26] Speaker 7: uh, to bring you in. So you had 350, uh, pretty much Luc sos. Okay. Pretty much. So, um, yeah, you can, you can either work it in or you can leave it be, um, it's up to you. I don't mind, I trying to
[01:04:36] Speaker 3: remember what my, my point there was.
Yeah, I'm sorry. Let's, let's, let's, Victoria, I
[01:04:40] Speaker 2: think we're just, like I said before, I think we're just from two different worlds. Um. We're not, you know, you're talking about cutting up something from the eighties. I'm talking about preserving something from the fifties and the sixties, and there aren't that many of them left.
Um, but there's also so much history and provenance and these cars were an integral part of the evolution of the mark. And not just Ferrari. Of every of Bugatti. Absolutely. Of, of tall bows of, you know, we can go on and on with a bunch of different marks. It's not just Ferrari. And so my industry, I'm just gonna separate it for a second and put, put myself in the restoration category.
There is an entire industry that's dedicated to preserving and to not tearing these things up because they serve as kinetic art. And they, you have a couple different types of collectors. Some of some of them, um, you know, are seen as just garage queens and it's kinetic art. Like you said, it's an investment.
Other people drive the wheels off of them. Which, I mean, I only got both sides. I, I think they're meant to be used, I think Yolo, um, yeah. You know, and it's gonna have to be serviced either way, so you may as well enjoy it.
[01:05:53] Speaker: Yeah. By the way, I do wanna point out that you drove your Ferrari here and he drove his Ford here, so, you know,
[01:05:57] Speaker 3: I was gonna make the joke and we started, like, when, when he said, oh, your car is cooler than mine.
Your car is cool than mine too. 'cause I could not drive it here. So like,
[01:06:05] Speaker 2: huge analogy, but that's the point. I mean, and that's why I am kind of, I don't know, maybe on the edge in my own sort of niche, is I stand behind the cars actually being used. And it's really disappointing to see cars come into the shop and, um, you know, looking back and seeing that five years ago, only 300 miles have been put on, or if that, so I, I wanna take my, my car to, I don't know if I already said this or not, you know, I want it to be high mileage.
I wanna show people that you can use and drive your cars. You don't need to be afraid of them. And. That's what they're meant for.
[01:06:38] Speaker: It does help that you know how to fix them.
[01:06:40] Speaker 2: Absolutely.
[01:06:41] Speaker: Yeah.
[01:06:42] Speaker 2: The pocketbook too.
[01:06:43] Speaker: So we, we would, we've talked about Ferraris for an hour and I didn't think we'd actually talk about 'em for that long.
Definitely probably outside of the normal conversation that this pod used to. But, um, what other stuff are you into outside of Ferrari? Or are, do you feel like that your world is just so in that space?
[01:06:59] Speaker 2: It's pretty dense. Yeah. It's, it, it's, it's pretty dense. Um, but I think that's kind of the point I really dove in because I wanted to become the best of the best at one thing.
[01:07:10] Speaker 6: Mm-hmm.
[01:07:11] Speaker 2: And I'm really grateful to have learned all that I've learned. And, um, you know, I'm, that's kind of the goal is to always keep on learning. Right. Um, but I'm excited to see how that grows and evolves.
[01:07:23] Speaker: So, like what are your thoughts on Porsches?
[01:07:25] Speaker 2: I think they're awesome, but I think there are so many made that that's what I would mod.
I wouldn't waste my time figuring out what Ferrari I wanna want. I get a Porsche and is the I the best thing that thing I've ever heard?
[01:07:37] Speaker 3: Right now I'm f I'm f like, this is great. Keep going, please.
[01:07:42] Speaker 5: Why?
[01:07:43] Speaker 3: See, I, I've spent this whole time criticizing Ferrari, but like people that really know me, there's like our, our friend Chris Cwell, he made stickers that have my face on them and it says, ask me why your Porsche is stupid.
And like, there's this whole thing where everybody says, Mike hates nine elevens. And. I don't, I have a huge amount of reverence for the nine 11 and Porsche, but you are pointing out things that I think the nine 11 excluding Brian needs to hear. There are so many of them, like they're not that rare. I think they're amazing cars and they are special by virtue of like what, how unique they are.
[01:08:21] Speaker: I think nine 11 owners wish their cars were more rare because you could see, oh wait, are
[01:08:25] Speaker 2: you saying you think nine 11 owners wish their cars were Ferraris?
[01:08:28] Speaker: Yeah, no, I do. No, I wish they had, I think that nine 11 owners wish their cars had the rare element and the hard to find, the hard to get aspect that they do because people will get into specs like, oh, well mine is only one of 31 that has this color interior, this exterior, and the optional ashtray delete.
And you are like, I don't know why that matters. It's just a 9 6 4. Right? And it's like, mine's somewhat rare. And I cut it up and modified it and changed everything on it. And I don't care because it suits me. And I've had, I mean, I have had like very aggressive emails attacking me on what I've done to this car.
And especially like in the past year or two when like AKA's son kind of got like dragged through the mud because he glued a tow hook on as like it was, they did it as a joke but it didn't land. As to why he did it. Sure. Mine's not like that. Mine's well connected to the chassis. It's actually a real race hook because that's what it is.
But I also understand what's happened to the RWB community and I wasn't ever part of that community. I liked this car because, and I built this car because it was this cool thing in Japan before it ever came here in the States. Right. Um, but for me, I don't care what anyone thinks about my car because I have no plans on selling it.
It has the value has 10 XD since I bought it, which is insane. Like nothing else I've ever owned has done that. And I always tell people like, if it's for sale, come check on me. 'cause it means I probably have to pay for a medical procedure like, because it's is my car. I just love it. I love everything about it.
I am a big fan of nine elevens because I was a Volkswagen guy and they kind of just train you like VW Audi and then you eventually own a nine 11. I feel that no other car turns in like it I the glass house. Like how you, there's just so many things that I think are great about nine elevens, but I also don't think that they're precious.
Like, and I also don't think that, I think this is like where the nine 11 issue is. Like, I also don't think that they are like some weird spiritual thing that separates you from all other cars. 'cause I've also have had great experiences in non nine elevens. Like there are things that my Ferrari does way better.
[01:10:31] Speaker 2: Sure. Right. But I think that's also kind of like when you start modding, where do you stop? And we don't have to keep talking about Ferraris. I know we've talked about them for a long time. We don't. We can talk about, we can talk about Cupcake if you want just to make it, this is my podcast, just to make it fair.
Technically my car, the tester is a high production car. They made over 7,000 of them. That's kind of why I didn't, I didn't know that. Yeah. But I, the reason I'm not doing anything to it, um, for a couple reasons is one, where do you stop? So I upgrade the exhaust. Well then what?
[01:11:03] Speaker: You don't stop. This is the drug.
[01:11:04] Speaker 2: Exactly.
[01:11:06] Speaker: Yeah. By the way, we right here, this right here, this is like drug dealers who are like, here take the first hit. I
[01:11:10] Speaker 3: was trying to interrupt a moment ago. I was gonna say this could be the moment where it's like, Hey, why don't you come try some drugs? Yeah. But,
[01:11:15] Speaker 2: but also with this car, even though they made seven thou over, just over 7,000 of them, the cool thing about it is it's basically an F1 motor in it.
It's the three 12 F1 motor. It was designed by this guy named for gri, who was like the pioneer engineer at Ferrari for like the sixties and seventies. And the same, same motor, uh, four valves per cylinder, except the cams were gear driven. It wasn't belt driven dominated. The only reason they stopped using the flat 12 was because they had, uh.
What do you call it? Um, cha uh, changes in regulations, regulations change, regulation changes in, in Formula One. This is basically that that engine they swapped, um, the gears out to make it a little bit quieter, uh, for belts. Mm-hmm. And we've got four valves per cylinder and Sounds sweet. Yeah,
[01:12:04] Speaker: it does sound sweet.
[01:12:05] Speaker 2: Um, and it's, yeah, just under 400 horse. Obviously that doesn't compete with anything that's coming out today, but for 87, I mean, that was Ferrari's flagship car, so I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna start because it's got that cool history with the engine and I just don't know where I would stop.
[01:12:20] Speaker: That's actually, I, I, I don't think I've ever heard someone so succinctly put that, and I actually do think that's one of the biggest problems with modifying cars is like, where do you stop?
Like once you start getting into it, and you are definitely, you've definitely gone down this path, but I built an Audi coup Quatro that's pretty much useless because I scope creeped it into the most insane build of all time. And now it is so beyond my capability to really make sense of what I've built, that it would require like engineers and a full race team to get it sorted.
And I did it because at the time, especially YouTube sort of drives this, like just do more, keep doing crazier things. Sure. Just do
[01:12:56] Speaker 2: wheels, just do exhaust. Just DOP your, yeah. And now I've like
[01:12:58] Speaker: changed the geometry on the car so much that. I, I've gone well beyond what the Audi Engineers plan, not that the guys who decided to put an engine in front of the strut towers really understood how to build good cars.
Um, and by the way, I, I wanted to bring this up before because I think it is very important to be fans of cars and to have a healthy criticism of the people who build them. I don't think Ferrari owners do that.
[01:13:23] Speaker 2: I don't think Ferrari's perfect. I, I agree with you. I think, think, and I'm not saying you, I just
[01:13:27] Speaker: think, I think in general there's this feeling, and I think that's, there's pedestal.
Your problem is Yeah. Is I don't think your, it's, yeah. This is, I'm going to, this is a completely weird comparison, but, uh, a lot of people in the rally community hate, like hated Ken Block because other people said that Ken Block was the greatest rally car driver of all time. Ken never said that he knew exactly where his place was.
I never said it. None of the people who knew anything said it. But these fans who didn't know about Rally said it. And I think that that ends up being kind of the Ferrari thing is you have a lot of Ferrari owners who sort of buy them because they are like a trophy piece, the greatest car ever built. And then you get people like Mike who are like, no, no, you could build a way better car.
And you sort of are like, you're, you're angry at the not the car or the people who are like part of it, like you, but who are building 'em. But you're mad about the people who sort of blindly love something that maybe don't have all that information.
[01:14:24] Speaker 2: Right. And I think that's the point. Also, Portia guys point, I think they don't have, I think poor Porsche guys.
Um, I don't, I think you're right. I, I don't think they have the full picture. Um, it's like with new cars, I feel like a lot of people, maybe somebody likes cars. Now they have money or they're at the point in their career where they have money, they wanna buy a nice car. Um, but they don't know enough to have an opinion about what's cool.
They just go with, oh, um, this one's the most expensive. It's the fastest it must be cool.
[01:14:54] Speaker: Yeah.
[01:14:55] Speaker 2: Um,
[01:14:55] Speaker: can I get a little insight in your community, which I know is like this, like the fact that you can sit here and you can talk about the heritage of an engine and who built it and its importance in Formula One.
Like you are in a very core group of people. How does that core group see the guy who buys a Ferrari and the only mod he makes is floor mats that have a really big horse on them? Like, where does that live?
[01:15:19] Speaker 6: Um, by the way, my,
[01:15:19] Speaker: my Ferrari has really big floor mats. 'cause they came with it and whenever I look at them I'm always like, oh, this is so gross.
But at the same time, I went to go look for like, stock floor mats and they're like $500. I was like, oh, guess I'm keeping these,
[01:15:32] Speaker 2: my car, for example. Um, somebody had painted the wheel nuts and they also threw on uh, a MGV 12 badges and Jaguar V 12 badge on, on the back of it. Just 'cause they wanted people to know there was 12 cylinders.
It's not a V 12, it's a flat 12. But they liked it and it, it made them happy. They felt cool by having those on there. So that was the first thing I did was remove those. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but I don't know.
[01:16:03] Speaker: So if it wasn't Ferrari, what would it be for you?
[01:16:07] Speaker 2: Ooh,
[01:16:09] Speaker: you're like, maybe Maserati. Oh, okay. You know what this is Bug.
Gotti. Bugatti.
[01:16:14] Speaker 2: Yeah. Type 57 Atlantic. No, I think they're super cool. They're not fast, but they're really cool. And the engines are gorgeous because, and I don't mean that visually, I just mean from the actual, like technical design.
[01:16:27] Speaker: Yeah. If it wasn't BMWs, what would it be for you?
[01:16:34] Speaker 3: That's, that's a cop hat answer, but it's like, it's too broad. I mean, like, I have so many different cars right now where it's like, I, like, I like a lot of different things. Yeah. I'm not really pigeonholed into like, I mean, BMW's my favorite, like my first love. But I mean, I've got old BMWs, I've got this Audi, I've got Ferraris.
I am like, I'm a big Ford guy. Mm-hmm. I got my Ford truck. I've been trying to buy your wife's Ford truck for a long time. Oh, we know pressure. Uh, I've got, I've got a, I recently bought a GMT 400 pickup. 'cause like, I love those. Honestly, I kind of like trucks more than I like cars, but they're harder to like really do the things that I like with.
Mm-hmm. And they're like much more limited. But like, trucks are awesome. Trucks are so cool. I like, I like big stuff. I like off-road stuff. If it's got wheels, like I'm probably gonna be into it. Um, so it, it's tough for me to say like, oh, if I'm not a BMW guy, like what would it be? Um. I mean, yeah, I guess, I don't know.
I don't, I don't even have an answer. I don't know, because, you
[01:17:38] Speaker: know, I don't like BMWs and I actually can't tell you why. I, I, I, there must have been like, there's some suppressed memory that I'll have to go to therapy to work through. I don't know what it is, because I can respect that they're very good cars.
I used to be a journalist and I used to do comparisons between like, when the, you know, the RS four came out. I couldn't argue that the E 92 and three was a better car. Right. Um, like I couldn't not, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't argue against it, like it was a better car. Um, I know that they're fantastic.
Just driver's cars. There's something about them. I don't know if it's like a stigma around them or like the guys who had them when I was young. 'cause like, BMWs especially like E 36 is when I was young, were like mostly owned by people who had more money and I didn't, so like growing up in New York, there was kind of like a, ah, I don't like those guys.
Right, sure. Um, but I've had, I've like struggled to want to like BMWs, like I've struggled, like, I've owned a couple, I had an E 46 that was really just like a drift car. A yard car. Sure. And I got rid of it pretty quickly. I had an E 21, like when I was younger. Um, I like e thirties, so like, but it, it's like I want to, like BMWs, I just can't do it.
[01:18:45] Speaker 3: But even within the BMW like realm, I'm very narrowly focused. There's only like a handful of years of cars that I like, like after the E 36. I want nothing to do with them. People like I do, like, I do not understand. How anybody could like an E 46 over an E 36, for example. Mm-hmm. Like I look at an E 46 and it just does nothing for me.
That car exists to give its engine to an E 36. Like that's it.
[01:19:11] Speaker: See, that's how I, when I look at the E 36, I just don't understand why you would own one when you can own an E 30
[01:19:16] Speaker 3: and that, that part's fair. I have my E 36 mostly because I've had it for almost 20 years at this point. Like Right. I'm, I would never buy another E 36, I don't think, unless I like conjured up some weird project.
My BMW enthusiasm exists solely between, like, realistically for the most part, like 82 to 88, and then some cars that get outside of that. But like, I'm very narrowly focused and almost all of that comes down to the E 28 5 series. Like, that's like, that's the car, that's my car. Like my favorite car on earth outside of nine one Pro car is a Euro E 28, M five.
Let's call it like an eighty four eighty five Chrome trim. Uh, like Fulbright work car, non mtech. As simple standard as it gets. Like if I could, if I could have my choice. No power Windows cloth interior, like stripper version E 28, M five sedan, I think Best Car made.
[01:20:13] Speaker: That's fair. Yeah. I mean, I like them.
They look cool. I just don't know. There's like this weird, I can't, I just can't get past it. I wish I could, 'cause I, I think it would expand my collection of what I like because I, I have this like love hate relationship with Audis. Um, especially being an Audi, like the vintage Audi, so like pre 95 in the United States, like there's no support for them.
We don't get access to Audi tradition and there's all these problems and it's like, I have this, even mys eight, my D twos eight. It's like I have all these problems with it and I can't help but drive it and go, why do I own this? It is as complicated as owning a Ferrari, but there is no value to it.
[01:20:52] Speaker 3: And you, like, at the
[01:20:52] Speaker: end of the day, I do all this work and I made a fi, I made a $5,000 car into a $7,000 car, but I invested $30,000 into doing it.
Right? Yeah. Like it's there. There's almost not that return where BMW's and Mercedes there is, but which is weird because I also. I, I don't, I don't like high value cars and I'm starting to realize that like as I get older, um, sitting to our right off camera is my 9 6 5 and my Ferrari 360 and they get driven the least out of all my cars.
One because they're in the garage and I gotta move things to get outta the way. But like my rabbit, which is out front, gets driven all the time. Um, my RS two gets driven all the time and like the RS two has obviously got some value to it. But I actually find that the more valuable a car is, the more I worry about it and the less I want to drive it.
Like, if I hear a noise coming from my Ferrari, I start to panic. 'cause I'm like, oh, what's this gonna be? We're like, what could have fire coming from under the hood? In the rabbit? Yeah. I'm like, oh, whatever. I got three tools in the car, I probably can fix it. So, but I guess you don't have that feeling 'cause you work on them.
Like you have such confidence working on Ferrari's that maybe it doesn't feel the same way. Yeah, I
[01:21:55] Speaker 2: mean the worst case scenario is something goes wrong and I fix it.
[01:21:59] Speaker 3: Yeah. It's still expensive though.
[01:22:01] Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, time is money, you
[01:22:02] Speaker 3: know, I'm gonna admit that that part does sound nice. Like when you don't modify, like, I love driving my truck every day 'cause it's, it is not modified and it's very reliable and it gets me where I need to go.
It's pretty comfortable. That's not what I'm into cars for though. But like I see the appeal and so like, I do wanna rewind momentarily on like, our discussions about restoration and like preserving these cars that are special. Like, so many of 'em, I do think like they do need to be preserved. There's like, when we go back to the two 50 GTO, like would you say there's 22 of them or something?
[01:22:32] Speaker 6: 20 uh,
[01:22:33] Speaker 3: 20 something of them.
[01:22:34] Speaker 6: 25. I think I 20. I can't recall.
[01:22:37] Speaker 3: 30. You want
[01:22:38] Speaker 6: It
[01:22:39] Speaker 3: doesn't, it doesn't even matter. The, like none of those cars should get cut up there. It's, that's, that's too rare.
[01:22:45] Speaker 2: I'm sorry, can I didn't, I didn't hear You could say that one more time. I don't have a
[01:22:48] Speaker 3: problem with doing
[01:22:49] Speaker: it.
[01:22:50] Speaker 2: What was that?
I don't think
[01:22:51] Speaker: Victoria, you by the way, are welcome back on this show. Whenever. Thank you. 'cause I like, did you take us all the
[01:22:54] Speaker 3: time? Absolutely. And this has been a, a blast. Like you're holding your own. This is great. I I would not cut one of those cars up.
[01:23:01] Speaker 2: You would not cut a Ferrari up?
[01:23:04] Speaker 3: No, not one of,
[01:23:04] Speaker 2: yeah, yeah, yeah.
Of a two 50 GTO.
[01:23:07] Speaker 3: No, I wouldn't cut a two 50 GTO up.
[01:23:09] Speaker 2: Alright, we're all done then. Yeah,
[01:23:11] Speaker 3: but that's why I asked about El Luso. So with a luso, we're talking about a car that you said is, you know, a million, $2 million million. It's a valuable car. There's 300 of them or somewhere in that neighborhood. I think one should get cut up.
That means if barring how many are left or what have you. There's 299 of 'em left and every single one of them is in some state of preservation or pursuit of preservation. We don't need one more. Cut that thing up. Make somebody should make something cool outta one. Send one my way.
[01:23:41] Speaker: I'll chop it up. But I, I I wanna call something out 'cause I think that this is very subjective because you said someone should make something cool.
'cause I think we have all seen cars that get stanced and I know you run Stance works, but I know you probably have a feeling I do that where like you have ridiculous over FES or things on cars. Yeah. And you're like, ah, no thanks, no thanks. Stop that. And I, I think that that's like this line and look, I know the people look at my nine 11 and think that sure, I know people look at this car and they say, oh well that's gross.
[01:24:08] Speaker 3: I I mean, I'll say I think that, and this will, this will come off really conceited, so forgive me, but like I think that if anybody modified a two 50 luso, there's a 99% chance. I would think it was worse than original. I don't think that most people would be able to take it and improve it in a way that I would think was an improvement.
[01:24:24] Speaker 2: That's funny that you said that 'cause that was gonna be my question is how would you improve it?
[01:24:29] Speaker 3: I don't know. 'cause I haven't spent any time like thinking about it even like, to the extent of, I don't even know the car well enough. Like I, I can, I can picture one in my head 'cause I'm like familiar enough with it, but.
That's not the kind of car that I would buy and do something with. 'cause it's not, that's not my era, right? That's not my lane, that's not the type of thing that gets me excited. If somebody handed me the keys to one and said like, do your thing, I'd have to spend some time because I think it'd be really easy to just make something junky that people thought I was trying to ascribe value to because it got modified.
And I strongly disagree with that. Like, modifying it does not make it better. That absolutely not. That car is beautiful as it is. It is very cool. Um, I don't think that just because you could or do modify it means that, oh, now it's more interesting or should be appreciated more in any way. The
[01:25:20] Speaker 2: evolution of this conversation, this is, but
[01:25:22] Speaker 3: I'm, I'm,
[01:25:23] Speaker: this is the whole point.
Bring a bunch of people together who don't really know each other and learn something from it. This
[01:25:27] Speaker 2: is, well this is what is getting me excited. Now one day I'm gonna have a two 50 luso and I cannot wait to bring it down to you to drive and hear whether or not with, based off of that experience's,
[01:25:39] Speaker: here's deal.
Here's the deal if he gets to drive it, but then he also gets to put it on the lift and point out a bunch of things to you that he thinks should be better. And you, that's the conversation.
[01:25:48] Speaker 6: Totally,
[01:25:48] Speaker 3: totally. We'll make that video, but, but I'll say this, like, if. If I was gonna modify one, for example, I think one of the first things I probably would do is I'd probably completely remove the original exhaust and headers and what have you.
And I would make my own, you know? Mm-hmm. Full ink cannel or stainless tig welded, make something really free flowing. Something that sounded really good and make that thing sound better, in my opinion, than it does original. And I know that it sounds good, but I know that it could sound better to me.
[01:26:15] Speaker 2: And you would actually benefit the Ferrari community in that way because those exhaust systems are so expensive that somebody trying to source one would then have an opportunity to buy it.
Yeah. So, but, but
[01:26:26] Speaker 3: they wouldn't want that, they'd wanna keep it original. No,
[01:26:28] Speaker 2: but I'm saying you wanna remove the old one, then it's, then it becomes available to somebody that actually wants it. Sure.
[01:26:33] Speaker: Oh, oh, I see what you're saying. I get what you're saying. She's giving, you're giving, you're
[01:26:36] Speaker 2: giving back to the, you know what she
[01:26:37] Speaker: basically said?
She basically said that you are like a guy who rides a motorcycle without a helmet. Like you're an organ donor. An
[01:26:42] Speaker 3: organ organ donor. You know, I have, I have made that argument about my 3 0 8 when I get a lot of flack from F chatt, which I am currently banned from, by the way. Wait, what? Yeah. I'm, you got banned from F chatt?
I got, I got banned from F chatt.
[01:26:55] Speaker: Which over something you did? Or just the F 40 project?
[01:26:58] Speaker 3: No, uh, it's over something I did. Uh, but I think it was used as an excuse. Can, am I open to rant about this? Allowed
[01:27:05] Speaker: to do whatever you want. All
[01:27:06] Speaker 3: right. Admins of F chatt. Shame on you guys. Okay, so there is a thread on f chat about my 3 0 8 that I did not start.
Somebody else started it said, check out this K swapped 3 0 8 project on YouTube. Now, as said, I love to argue. So the second I got linked to that thread, we can tell I'm in there and I'm, I'm giving everybody flack and those that are rude to my car or to me, I will be rude back to, and if you are polite or engaging, even if you don't like it, I do not care.
If you do not like my car plenty, like it's very valid to not like my car. That does not bother me. But if you are a dickhead about it, then I'll be a dickhead back to you. And then they get up in arms and it's like, what's your problem? And it's like, it's kinda like, did you started it? I'm like, you know, whatever.
But so there's a lot of discourse in this thread where I'm not necessarily the most polite guy. Um, and that got carried forth, uh, until the most recent thread. Some guy in there, he just kept going on and on. And so I commented and I said that he was a miserable, censored word. And
[01:28:15] Speaker: you don't have to censor on this podcast, but it's okay.
[01:28:17] Speaker 3: I'm not gonna say what I said, but, um, was it like, see
[01:28:19] Speaker: you next Tuesday?
[01:28:20] Speaker 3: It was, yeah,
[01:28:21] Speaker: in Australia. That's okay.
[01:28:22] Speaker 3: I got a, i, I learned from my Australian friends, um, and the, the word filter. Changed it to asterisks. Mm. And so I went back in there and I edited and I just put an asterisk on the vowel so that he knew what I called him.
Mm. But it was still censored. Yeah,
[01:28:37] Speaker 5: yeah.
[01:28:37] Speaker 3: Inappropriate, of course. Um, and so they banned me for a day. They said, Hey, you can't bypass the profanity filter. And I said, that's fair. I definitely, I did that. They were, you broke,
[01:28:50] Speaker: you broke foreign rules. I, I
[01:28:51] Speaker 3: broke the rules. And so, you know, after a day I go to log in and it says, your account is banned.
Contact admin at Ferrari. Chat about it to have your account reinstated. So I email him and I say, Hey, the guy comment, like one of the admins commented, he's like, Hey, this is why you're banned. And I said, that's really fair. And he said, the admin replied back and said, no, you don't contribute anything to our forum.
We're not gonna unban you and or no. First he said, uh, you're not allowed to, uh, promote your YouTube channel on our forum. And I said, Hey, I didn't start that thread. I'm also happy to like not post links like I don't need to link on this forum. Right. I'm not worried about that. Like, I will abide by your rules.
Trust me.
[01:29:33] Speaker: This isn't my audience.
[01:29:34] Speaker 3: Yeah. Like, no problem. Understood. If that's like a rule, I'm more than happy to abide by it. He says, he, his response was, I'm not gonna unban you anyway. You don't bring anything to our forum. And I said, well, this is like one of the longest threads on this forum. I'm engaging people with it.
I've proven that, you know, I followed through on the project. There is a lot of healthy discussion in this thread too. There are some guys that were naysayers at the beginning that have come around and said like, Hey dude. Yeah, I thought you were full of it at the beginning, but like, you're out there, you're doing the thing.
I wouldn't do that to my car, but like, I see you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like, okay, this is cool because again, I get why a Ferrari forum would want nothing to do with my car. There's no, no question there.
[01:30:14] Speaker: So Victoria, do you feel bad now for making those comments under that fake username?
[01:30:21] Speaker 2: I'm actually, you know, one of the admins,
[01:30:24] Speaker: so let's get this thing fixed up. Um, are you on f chat?
[01:30:27] Speaker 2: No. Full. I don't know. Right hand over my heart. I've actually, I've never been on Ferrari chat. Yeah. Yeah. I don't have an account. I've never been on it. I have friends that will come back to me and say, and they'll, is it read me stupid things that people have written about me, but I don't go on.
[01:30:42] Speaker: Yeah. I could see that. Yeah. I'm only on there for when I need to go find, like inform information, a part number reference or like, why is this broken? Like, like, like for example, this is a weird 360 thing, but like, when you run out of hydraulic fluid for the F1 transmission, the, the, uh, idiot light Yeah. Is actually the trunk light.
Like. That makes no sense to me. You're cool. To you, you're like, that makes perfect sense. I'm German, I have German cars. Like that side of it is like, wait, why would the trunk light be the light? And like the car won't move, it won't start. So, you know, like f chat's good for things like that. Although, I have to say the Facebook group nowadays I think are, are better, but Sure.
Do
[01:31:20] Speaker 2: you have a factory manual?
[01:31:22] Speaker: No.
[01:31:23] Speaker 2: No.
[01:31:23] Speaker: No.
[01:31:24] Speaker 2: Okay. We'll work on that.
[01:31:25] Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So maybe I'll just give you my car. You can keep it for like a few weeks and fix, Hey, time we have an issue, you know, just shoot,
[01:31:32] Speaker 6: shoot, shoot me a call. I got you. Yeah.
[01:31:33] Speaker: So you know what I, I do wanna say something because I never mentioned this before and I know people will call it out my three favorite Ferraris.
'cause you guys talked about it. Yeah. We forgot. Challenge Stroll 360, right? I didn't, I didn't buy one 'cause they were a lot more money, but that's definitely there for me. Um, the F 40, just because it's such an important car, I don't fit in it, so I could never, like, I would never own one, but it's just so cool to me.
Um, and then probably the, the third one for me is probably the 3 55. Just 'cause it looks cool and I, and then, and like all other than the F 40, like those other two guards are like, so accessible. Yeah. And like the vintage ones are really cool. I just don't know what I would do with one
[01:32:10] Speaker 6: call me.
[01:32:11] Speaker: I just don't think, I don't think I would drive it.
It just is, it's like too much like value anxiety.
[01:32:16] Speaker 3: Well, to that point though. So I think that is part of what. Keeps me from being interested in some of those older cars is even back to this two 50 luso thing. Like, I don't know what I would do to it. And to me, I wanna do things to the car I don't have an interest in.
So like that's a good one. That's part of, I think that's, and I've just identified this. Huh? I like to answer that question like, you could name plenty of the eighties cars that I've never thought about what I would do to it. I
[01:32:39] Speaker 2: really hope everybody that was listening at the beginning is still listening right now.
[01:32:44] Speaker: Well, you have to get to the end. It's like therapy, you know? It doesn't work at first. It's not until you get to the end of it.
[01:32:48] Speaker 6: I'm not, I totally get that. I,
[01:32:50] Speaker 3: I'm not get that to those cars 'cause I, I just, I don't know what I do to it. They kind of seem like they're, that's kind of how they're supposed to be.
And like,
[01:32:57] Speaker 2: and it's funny 'cause I feel kind of the opposite. Like there's so much, um, almost comfort in knowing how it's supposed to go back together. That the newer cars and having all these options and you know, having kind of the world at your fingertips when it comes to modding it, that's almost too overwhelming for me.
It's almost like, again, where do you stop? Yeah.
[01:33:18] Speaker 3: Well you just stop when either you're out of money or you're,
[01:33:22] Speaker 2: or you find something cooler. Shit's super broken.
[01:33:24] Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. True. So let's talk about his F 40 project real quick. 'cause I'm sure there's people who are literally listening just to hear.
[01:33:30] Speaker 2: Yeah. I, I
[01:33:30] Speaker: so sure.
[01:33:31] Speaker 2: I, I need the TI don't know Yeah. Much about it. Yeah. So I, well '
[01:33:34] Speaker: cause I want to ask you a question about it. Yeah. But I'd love for you to just lay it out there for her. Okay. Sort of like what your plan is, right. How you came about it, and like really kind of leaning into your, um, just because I know you could talk about it for hours.
Sure. So I just wanna kind of guide this as like the, your plans to sort of better the chassis, but then use a bunch of other components that it makes sense for the car, but then also your engine choice and like all of that and why.
[01:34:02] Speaker 3: Yeah. So, so as I said, I have an authentic body. So just, just the panels. I do not have a chassis.
I, I did get offered a chassis once. I, like, I published this thing, somebody's like, Hey, I have an authentic chassis. Are you interested? And I said, no. Interesting. I don't want that.
[01:34:16] Speaker: How, how much does that go for these days? That
[01:34:18] Speaker 3: one was like a, they wanted a quarter million dollars for it, which I could not afford that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But also, even if I said, oh, I'm gonna figure out how to do this. Was it a VIN number
[01:34:25] Speaker: chassis or a race car? Like non VIN chassis?
[01:34:28] Speaker 3: Uh, I can't remember. I think it was a vin numbered chassis. Mm. Um, but I didn't, I I didn't fully entertain it, so I don't, yeah, I don't fully know. But, um, I, I acquired a body, the front two thirds of it, everything from the rear clamshell forward is new old stock.
And it's all, uh, I guess the hood is a more recent production. The doors, the roof and the rockers are like, old production, still have their like 87, 89, 90 tags on them and stuff. The rear clam shell is a used clamshell from a road car. And then the underbody for the rear is from a race car, uh, from a, from a GT one race car that only did a couple of races.
It was actually Lawrence Stroll owned the race car that that part came off of, which was kind of cool finding out where pieces came from. But anyways, um, I acquired a body, which for me, I mean like F 40 is a top three car, no question. Even as like a quote unquote not Ferrari guy. To me that's, that's one of the end all.
And I never thought I'd get the chance to like build one or a car like one, whatever we wanna call it. Um, when I saw those panels come up, I said I have to do this. And so like, I sold several cars and I emptied my savings account and I went out all in on it. The rest of the build is, I knew for my next big project I wanted to build a a tube chassis car.
I've made one in the past and I've learned a lot since then. And I said I want to kind of take everything I've learned and make the best one that I can and. I was gonna build a, a Mercedes, I was gonna build a a one 90 e tube chassis like race car. And then this stuff came up. So with that comes, okay, what's the rest of this car gonna be built out of?
I know that I don't have an actual F 40, like I have the skin of one, but I, I think you have to have the chassis to have an F 40. Uh, and I do not have that, but I don't want that. Um, and I'd love to carry on a tangent about that if we get there later. But the rest of it, I still want it to be a Ferrari in, in my opinion.
Subjectively, so as much of the car as I feel is appropriate is, is still Ferrari parts. So all of the suspension, the control arms, the uprights, everything is all pulled from a 4, 5, 8 challenge evo. And then I went and 3D scan the whole chassis of a challenge Evo, so I could transpose all of the suspension geometry onto my tube chassis so that it will like actually drive and handle like that car.
Um, and then, yeah, for engine, I wanted to go as far as monetarily allowable, uh, with the engine. I know that the F 40 is a V eight twin turbo. I thought for a moment about like a 4, 8, 8 piece to engine as kind of the final evolution of that, or current evolution of that. But I said, nah, it's a Ferrari. I want a V 12, I want, I want it.
I want that sound. And so I got very fortunate in finding what is essentially, aside from the SP three, the latest and greatest. V 12, you can get your hands on, which is from the A 12 super fast, F1 40 ga and we'll see how much more of it winds up being Ferrari. I'm, I'm piecing other bits and pieces of it together.
Uh, I want it to be Ferrari in spirit. Uh, I want it to have the DNA of a Ferrari, even if it is kinda a bastard child. Um, because that part of it is important to me. I have a Ferrari by VIN that is no Ferrari left, and I, I played that game. I do not want what is to me, a kit car or something that looks like an F 40, even though that is in many ways what it is.
Um, I want something that to me in my eyes is the craziest F 40 out there. And I think again, to me, that's what I'll have.
[01:38:16] Speaker 2: Sweet. So how far, so that's the project. How far along in the project are you?
[01:38:19] Speaker 3: Not very far along. Uh, I have a long way to go. Um, I have probably the front, let's call it at least the front 50% of the chassis done.
Um, I have a lot of the suspension, uh, geometry solved. I've gotta run rear chassis legs. Um, and I'm hopeful I'll get the chance to do that over the next few weeks. I keep getting pushed back and things keep getting in the way, which is unfortunate. But that's pretty common with projects like this. Um, I'm hopeful that let's say by the time we arrive in spring.
That the car will be rolling. Um, I have all of the major components for the car. So I mean, I have the body, I have the engine, um, Hollinger's building us a custom gearbox for the car. Hopefully we'll have that before too long. I have all of the suspension components that I need to from like the donor car.
Uh, so, uh, I mean there's still like so many parts and pieces that I still need to go. Um, I would say I have probably two years left of building this car.
[01:39:22] Speaker: Sweet. Okay, go ahead. No, no, no. You go. I only want, I know you have a question. I only want your input. I was just, I was just, I was just gonna
[01:39:28] Speaker 2: say, I think the key thing of what makes this cool is obviously you can see how stoked you are about it, right?
Like, that's what makes me excited about it. Um, but two, you're not out here saying, I'm building an F 40. This is an F 40 every, this is a real, real F 40. You're saying, no, I took all of these pieces and I made this Franken F 40 and it's sick and it's exactly what I want it to be and it's gonna be an incredible time to drive.
And it's like you said earlier, it's about the process. Um, I definitely identify with that, with what I do. It's about the experience and hell yeah, dude.
[01:40:09] Speaker 3: No, I, I, I appreciate
[01:40:10] Speaker: that. Okay, so here's, here's the setup. So it's five or six years from now. Okay. You guys haven't spoken. He's finished the project. He sold it to go work on something else, and you were running your own motorsport shop.
Now you know Bruno something and Maori
[01:40:26] Speaker 2: Bruno,
[01:40:26] Speaker: yeah, yeah, yeah. At
[01:40:27] Speaker 2: Maori, Bruno. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:40:29] Speaker: And that's your shop. And they show up. Uh, someone, a customer shows up with this card. Do you work on it?
[01:40:38] Speaker 6: There's,
[01:40:39] Speaker 2: um, here's the thing. It's so outside of my wheelhouse. The only thing that's familiar to me is the body. And I'm not a, I'm not a body person
[01:40:49] Speaker: because even the v twelves in the modern world. So it's just not something Yeah, it's,
[01:40:52] Speaker 2: it's, I I'm, I'm not going to pretend I would know what to do. I'd, I'd do what your, your guys at your Porsche shop did and say, Hey, this is just too outside of my wheelhouse.
[01:41:01] Speaker 3: That's fair. That's respectable. But, so, but to your point, she would grab, grab a
[01:41:05] Speaker: sick bag. But, you know, she Fair, fair.
[01:41:08] Speaker 2: I wouldn't take a hammer to it. I wouldn't destroy it. I wouldn't be So here, here's what I would
[01:41:12] Speaker: love to see is when that car is done, I'd love to see you go drive it. I would let, yeah. I, I love that would be other people drive my stuff.
[01:41:19] Speaker 3: Be Would it also be right to get
[01:41:20] Speaker 2: you then in my tester?
[01:41:21] Speaker 3: Perfect. Yeah. I, I think to your point of like saying I'm, you know, I'm not saying I'm sitting here building an F 40, I'm careful not to do that because I know so many other people would disagree with it. But as I said a second ago, I'd love to go on a tangent about that.
And so go for it. In, in spending time at my favorite event of the year is that I go to with any regularity, haven't been lately is car week, but for me that's going to Laguna Seca and watching the historic races. And Andrew and I started doing that. We were actually having a conversation about this former business partner, uh, that we feel like somewhat entitled to that event because we started going 14 years ago, which like at the time that whole, it was a ghost town.
There were the big events. You'd have Pebble, yeah, you'd have the races, but like now it's such this big thing. It has really exploded in popularity and like, I kind of resent it, which is very hipster of me to say, but
[01:42:13] Speaker: I've never been because I'm such a hipster about it that I've always thought it was uncool.
[01:42:17] Speaker 3: But
[01:42:18] Speaker: for
[01:42:18] Speaker 3: me,
[01:42:18] Speaker: we always, I have like, I have an allergy to money. I like any, like, the minute there's like too much money, I'm like, I don't want to go, I wanna go hang out with Kaiser shit boxes. But anyway,
[01:42:27] Speaker 3: for me it was always the chance to go to the track and photograph all these cool vintage race cars. And that's what I would say my biggest source of inspiration is that those are the things that I'm into.
I love race cars. They're the coolest version of any car for me. When I go the, the example I'm gonna use is, I think it's three dog motor sport somewhere, I think maybe in Ohio or whatever. They run a lot of the old, um, ISA Mustangs, so like Fox Body era. Crazy wide, like Roush, proto Fab Mustangs. You look at those cars, they're some of the coolest things out there to me.
They are, we'll call them silhouette race cars underneath, it's a full tube chassis. The body is, I believe, mostly composite on those things. Probably fiberglass, maybe some of it's metal. Doesn't really matter. This thing wears a Mustang skin. Mm-hmm. And the rest of it, it's a race car. It's a through and through.
Yeah. Built by just a trans am proto fab. Like it's, it's a race car. We look at that and we call it a fox body Mustang on, nobody would ever sit here and argue that's not a fox body Mustang. 'cause it is one, but it's not. How much of that car is a fox body Mustang In reality.
[01:43:33] Speaker: And that's how you feel like the F 40 is less, less
[01:43:35] Speaker 3: than my F 40 that I have.
I have a real body, I have, I have an authentic one. And if I were building a race car, if I were in the eighties and I were building an IMSA GTX class race car, or a group five race car, or what have you, I'd be building, ignoring the modern pieces that I'm putting into the equation. I'd be building what I'm building now.
So how far do we get to depart from a car before it's not that car anymore? Now again, I'm, I don't have an authentic original F 40. I would never claim that. But to me, I have an F 40 in the same way that if I owned that proto Fab Mustang. Nobody could tell me I didn't own a Mustang.
[01:44:11] Speaker: Cool. What street address do you want Ferrari to send the c and d to?
[01:44:17] Speaker 3: Actually clipped that out because that's my actual shop address. You can censor it just, it's already going. It's already gonna get beep, just beep it. Um, but yeah, by all means, let's, let's hear from 'em. I, I, this is gonna be stupid 'cause I know I'm just asking for trouble. I have tagged Ferrari on Instagram.
Yeah. I've said, Hey, let's hear it. Like
[01:44:36] Speaker: I know we got, we already talked about this, but I do think it's just become this internet thing that people love. 'cause even when I got my car, people were like, oh, you're gonna get a cease and Desis. I was like, for putting on a factory N GT kit. Like, just because it wasn't just, 'cause it didn't come the way from the factory.
I don't think they care. Especially not about a 360. Yeah. It's basically the Toyota Camry, Ferraris. So,
[01:44:56] Speaker 3: so, and I do think the question would be like, do they care about an F 40? Yes. Do I have an F 40? No. So do they care about it? Well, by caring about what I have, that might kind of legitimize it. Not that they'd care about that either, but who else else?
I think if you've got
[01:45:08] Speaker: enough press about the car, then they might care. I think that that's when it becomes a problem. And I also think that if you ever leveraged it. Like if Jada Toys wanted to make a model of your car, it could never happen. They wouldn't care. That could never happen.
[01:45:21] Speaker 3: I, I've already excluded opportunities like that from being a reality of, of at least these last two projects.
I mean, I had my 3 0 8 at the Grand Tomo Awards. Yep. And Kaz came over and even said like, this car is perfect. This is great for what we want, but we can't let it win because Ferrari would never allow it. We can't put this car in the game. And I'm sorry. I
[01:45:40] Speaker: was like, plus I already gave you a Grand Ismo award for your car.
You did. I was the judge when we did it. I know,
[01:45:46] Speaker 3: I know. And I wanted it Rusty
[01:45:48] Speaker: Sington.
[01:45:48] Speaker 3: I wanted it so bad. And I remember standing on stage and Sun Kang even said, Hey dude, I think that your car should win. It's so cool. Yeah. But the politics of this, what, what did win that year? Do you know? That was his fu Guzzi.
That was, oh, his car won that year. His car won. He was like, he was like, and that was when they had the whole GRE press
[01:46:06] Speaker 5: Yeah. Push with it. It was also cool build, but really
[01:46:07] Speaker 3: cool build.
[01:46:08] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[01:46:08] Speaker 3: Um, and ever since not winning that, I've been like, I'm gonna go back. I'm gonna win it. And when I took the Ferrari in 22, when it got done, I like went that year, like, I am going to get that Grand Tomo award.
And hadn't really considered the fact that that like wouldn't be possible. And then they didn't do it that year. And so I've been waiting ever since. This is the first time they've done it since. And I got met with that. Oh yeah, you're kind of an idiot. You can't win that. They're not gonna let it happen.
So
[01:46:32] Speaker: he took just this BMW. It was a, it was a five series 28 5 series, 5 28. Um, that was like kind of a, it was a stance car. It was like rusty and slammed and then he basically took it and said, what would like a DTM version of this look like, like a touring car. And to me it was super cool 'cause you took something that lived in one culture and kind of put it into another one.
Like you took a car that was like really sort of synonymous with like the stance culture at the time, which was just like, make it look cool and slam it and like it's not really super functional. And then you put all this motorsport function in it cut the body up, like completely changed it. And it was almost like an artistic approach of like, this is my, this is me taking this culture and putting it through like a touring car, um, radius, fender, like extreme body modification, sort of, you know, silhouette racing kind of idea to this car.
So it was like this really interesting and unique build. And I was bumed because you never really got to like, do much with it after it. I did not
[01:47:36] Speaker 3: know, but,
[01:47:37] Speaker: and that's why I kind of love your 3 0 8 because like you've actually been going out grid life. Like you've actually, you went to um, five events this year.
You went to world time attack with it too, right? Was it? Yeah. Yeah. Took the car to Australia. Like you actually going and really racing that. And what, I've been wanting to ask you this, 'cause you and I really haven't spoken that much in the past couple years. How cool is that? Are you seeing a different side of that?
Because I think early on, like you were, like, once the car was built, then it was like over and now you're building another car, but like this car's life has extended because you're actually really going and, and driving it. Has that changed the way you're building cars now?
[01:48:09] Speaker 3: No, it hasn't changed the way I'm building cars.
It's been really cool to like get to put the car through its paces and find out where I'm falling short as a fabricator. Right? Because like I wanna, I want to be a better fabricator engineer driver as well. Like I've got a lot to learn to drive that car at its limit. It's a very capable car and I'm not a very capable driver.
I'm just capable. Um, it's, it's been really cool and rewarding. I will say. Like, I mean, it jokes on me for wanting to build a reliable Ferrari race car. 'cause it breaks every time I take it out. And that's part of, do you think it's the
[01:48:39] Speaker: Honda part that breaks?
[01:48:40] Speaker 3: Uh, at first it was, I'm on engine number.
Technically engine number four. Uh, but this latest engine, uh, which was built by David Rs machine locally has it held up the entire season and it hasn't skipped a beat. So I got the Honda Kinks worked out. It's been all driveline issues. Uh, and so I'm pulling the current gearbox out of it and going to a, a hauling her in this car as well to try to make it bulletproof.
Um, and I mean, like, when you're racing, I don't wanna say at that level, that probably makes it sound more grand than it really is, but when you have a car and you're asking as much of it as I am, and when you're pushing it to that limit and you're trying to make, you know, not only the power that we're doing, but you know, which is like
[01:49:20] Speaker: 500.
[01:49:21] Speaker 3: Yeah. Right now it's five 50 at the wheels out of a, out of a two liter, which is like conservative ish for that car. But when we compare it to like what that car had originally, it's, it's a lot more. Yeah. Um, you know, it's just every aspect, every event has been an opportunity to find the weak, weak links of the car.
And that's rewarding, but also simultaneously frustrating. So as a whole, like really cool year and we have some really cool stuff planned for next year, but it's, it's been a, it's been a challenge and at times I've had a lot of people say, you wish you had left that original motor in that car. You know, so,
[01:49:54] Speaker: so Victoria, you have a 3 0 8 and you have to change the engine in it.
You can't put back the stock motor road you put in it.
[01:50:01] Speaker 3: I know a guy that
[01:50:02] Speaker 4: knows how to put cases. There's a lot of room in there. Um,
[01:50:06] Speaker 6: oh dear.
[01:50:11] Speaker: She is regretting showing up to this podcast now. She's like, I didn't think I was gonna be asked any of these questions.
[01:50:16] Speaker 4: Oh, I can't, I can't do it. I love
[01:50:20] Speaker: it. I love No stay, stay true. He stays true to his side. I
[01:50:23] Speaker 2: can't do it. I wanna come up with an answer, but I can't, I can't do it right now. I need to spend more time.
[01:50:29] Speaker 3: Yeah. Um, if I were gonna do it all again, I would go with a 2.5 TFSI da a motor from an Audi.
[01:50:39] Speaker: Of course. I respect that. I, I'll tell you what I like about that, and I don't like about the K and this is nothing to you. It's just my feeling on case swaps. I've been talk involved in case swaps. I just don't think it's a good sounding engine.
I think it's like the least good sounding engine Honda's made. Like I, I prefer everything else that they've made to that. It just sound, it's like, it's like the LS of Honda Engines. I think that's fair. It takes a lot of power. Um, which is great. They can be reliable. Um, although they also seem to also be really, you either get a reliable one A, it's like the, the Shishito pepper of engines.
Like you just don't know what you're gonna get.
[01:51:14] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[01:51:15] Speaker: Um, but also, um, I just don't love how it sounds where like the DAA engine in line five has sick sounds and I'm obviously, I'm obviously biased 'cause I really love five, you know, five cylinders. But it just sounds unique, which I think is cool.
[01:51:30] Speaker 3: I don't think that the case sounds particularly good.
I think usually they sound quite bad. I am gonna be biased. I think mine sounds good. Not great. I have a lot of people come up and say like, man, that car sounds really cool. Or like it, thankfully it makes a lot of turbo noise and doesn't sound Yeah. Helps as like honday as normal. It sounds largely like a turbo force.
Its rally car or, so something's witch and
[01:51:53] Speaker: zoos.
[01:51:53] Speaker 3: Yeah. Um, but yeah, I mean like the sound is not a part of that car. That can be what I would say makes it exciting. 'cause it's not, I mean the, the gear wine of having like a straight cut gearbox sounds cool. And like, just the fact that it is extremely, uh, assaulting on the senses and therefore your ears is cool, but like the engine sound itself is not worth writing home about.
[01:52:19] Speaker 2: I'm gonna get canceled for this. Yeah, that's fair. Uh, the quad, the Quadra motor. Mm-hmm. The Julia Quadr Folio motor.
[01:52:27] Speaker 7: Oh, what, what is, what is he even is in that? That's interesting.
[01:52:31] Speaker 2: It's a, the V six twin turbo V six.
[01:52:35] Speaker 3: I like this answer. That's, it's got like 500
[01:52:36] Speaker 2: horse. Okay. Um, there's some, I
[01:52:39] Speaker 3: wasn't familiar with your game.
[01:52:41] Speaker 2: There's
[01:52:42] Speaker: kind of, we've found common ground friends. I,
[01:52:43] Speaker 3: I like that answer. I
[01:52:45] Speaker: like, I can see it. Could this be a future collab between the two of you?
[01:52:48] Speaker 3: Let's make it happen.
[01:52:49] Speaker: Let's go. She's like, please stop. It's Italian.
[01:52:50] Speaker 3: At least she's like, please stop,
[01:52:52] Speaker: please, please don't do that. Is that like a, do you, 'cause you obviously like Bugatti's, but is Italian cars sort of premium for you and then everything else.
Are there other Italian cards you like or is it just farra? Oh, I
[01:53:04] Speaker 2: love launches. I think they have a really cool rally history. I'd love to have a Fulvia or a Delta Ingra. Um, I or a Stratos. I think those are safe. They're beautiful. Um, definitely. Now you're
[01:53:18] Speaker: speaking my language. You driven outside of I'll launch you Delta Ingra price range.
[01:53:21] Speaker 3: Um, have, yeah. I've driven one. Um, so I would put the intergra over the Stratos or a foia. FOIA is really like, I think a cool looking car. Yeah. But again, it starts to It's a cool car and coffee car. Yeah. Yeah. I'd put it that way. Uh, I, the, the delta is on bucket lists, like that's a car I plan on owning in the next handful of years.
Um, and then for me, and as far as launches go, uh, I would love to build a replica of a, of an oh three seven. That is like,
[01:53:51] Speaker: yeah, ridiculous. It's amazing when, when Ron got his, uh, Delta, I got to rip it around when we got back to the States and, uh. I realized like everything I had ever wanted a Volkswagen Golf to be, it was like the steering, the way it felt, like, the fact that it didn't push into corners the same way, like just everything about it was right.
And I was, I, I immediately was a little like, regretful that I didn't buy a Delta Dera instead of an RS two on that trip. Um, that being said, then he went through like two engine rebuilds and all the, and he's had like a bunch of problems with it and it's cost him a ton. And now I'm pretty happy with my RS too,
[01:54:29] Speaker 2: so.
Fair enough. But one a car that I haven't driven that I've always sort of daydreamed about is the Puch o uh, 2 0 5 rally.
[01:54:37] Speaker: Yeah. Have you driven one of those? I haven't. Um, I grew up reading Max Power Magazine and that made me love any kind of like pug, like 2 0 6, 1 Oh yeah. Like 1 0 6, like any of the GTI era.
Like those were just super
[01:54:48] Speaker 3: cool. Have you guys seen the one going around? It's got a GT three R RSS engine in it. Oh. It's like fluorescent orange. It's mental. I'll fi I'll find, I'll send it to you guys. I have a
[01:54:58] Speaker: feeling that her. Algorithm is a lot different than ours probably. Yeah. I don't think anything that is a cross breeded of two different cars gets anywhere
[01:55:09] Speaker 3: near.
[01:55:09] Speaker 2: You're
[01:55:10] Speaker 3: not
[01:55:10] Speaker 2: wrong.
[01:55:10] Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
[01:55:11] Speaker 3: Well, I don't know what somebody was doing putting A-G-T-P-R-S engine in this thing, but man, is it the Lord's work? That's the right answer. They were doing the Lord's
[01:55:17] Speaker: work, you know, so creating world peace by bringing all these countries together.
[01:55:21] Speaker 3: Okay, so we got launcher. What else?
[01:55:24] Speaker 2: Um, I'm sorry, I forgot the question.
[01:55:26] Speaker: Just I was saying what other Italian cars do you like? Oh,
[01:55:29] Speaker 2: well, no, I'm not like, you know, devoted to just Italian cars, by the
[01:55:34] Speaker: way. I, I'm, this is not a knock because until I became a magazine journalist, I would argue with you why a Volkswagen was better than any other car in the world because I was just you when you live in that world and that's all you like.
And I love Volkswagens. I loved Audis and I loved Porsches. And it wasn't until I went to go drive a bunch of other stuff that like really broadened me to go, oh, I kind of like everything.
[01:55:53] Speaker 6: Sure.
[01:55:53] Speaker: So like, I can tell you why a 1976, like Chevy Caprice dunk is a really cool car because I've been around them and involved and I eventually built one, or I built the 71.
Sure. But like, still like,
[01:56:04] Speaker 2: well I think a lot of, um, the cars that I'm obsessed with, um, are the ones that I have the most experience working on. Right. And so that's what really sort of fuels my interest in them is how they function and what the experience is doing that level of problem solving to find a solution.
So, um. Kind of what we talked about earlier. Like there are design flaws throughout, you know, uh, Ferrari's lineage, but it's really satisfying and really challenging working on them. So that's kind of why I think I've sort of stayed so obsessed in this niche, um, is because it's constantly a struggle.
[01:56:45] Speaker: Here's a question for both of you. Uh, and I already know the answer, but I just wanna ask it. Design flaw to be fixed or to to be appreciated?
[01:56:55] Speaker 2: Um, it depends the context,
[01:56:59] Speaker 5: right?
[01:56:59] Speaker 2: Um, 'cause I mean, if we're talking about like shims on a kingpin, that's really annoying and there's a reason that cars don't have kingpins anymore.
Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. Um, so like throwing it back into the restoration world, it's like we're not gonna remove that suspension. We're not gonna totally throw that away and put something else in because it works better. We're gonna embrace it for what it is because it's a piece of history. Um, so in that scenario, you know, we'd leave it the same, but
[01:57:32] Speaker 5: obviously
[01:57:33] Speaker 2: on a newer car then, you know, maybe there's room, room to grow.
[01:57:37] Speaker 3: I mean, the obvious answer would be that I would say like, oh, it should be. Fixed changed. But at the same time, like I do think that there's context here. Like let's talk about these old Audis and the engine hanging out the front of the car. Like that's a design flaw. Yeah. But it's part of what makes them kind of cool.
I, I
[01:57:53] Speaker: agree. And it is like a line that's hard for me to cross because I've looked at like moving the engine back, running a like STI transmission. Yeah. But then like at a certain point it's like, it's not an Audi to me anymore. Of course. Like it really starts to change what it is
[01:58:07] Speaker 3: design flaw sitting next to us.
That engine would be better placed, not hanging behind the rear wheels. You do realize that all Audi
[01:58:14] Speaker: did was look at Porsche and go, they put the engine behind the rear axle. We're gonna put it in front of the, in front of the front axle and just do it in reverse. Unfortunately, it works for Porsche, it never really worked, worked for Audi.
So, but
[01:58:27] Speaker 3: I do think that that is like, I would argue until I'm blue in the face that the engine position in a nine 11 is not superior. Porsche sticks with it because of tradition and they have made it work exceptionally well. Well, they made it work, but it, the car would be, uh, it would perform better. It would be a Cayman, it would be a Cayman, and the Cayman would wipe the floor with the nine 11 if they allowed it to because of its engine position.
The GT
[01:58:53] Speaker: four is pretty impressive.
[01:58:54] Speaker 3: Um, but with that said, it is to be celebrated not to be changed. So context, context matters.
[01:59:01] Speaker: Yeah. I would also argue that the rear engine gives it a different driving experience and I think it does that. It's part of what. Makes this like thing where people are like, there's nothing like driving a nine 11.
It's part of it. 'cause like it creates a different turn in, it makes the car just sort of operate different. And there's also a bit of lore of like how difficult it is to tame, especially big power ones. Like, this is still a widow maker error car. I've had this car step out on me on the fourth day of ownership.
I'm like, Hey, check out how cool my car is. And I spun it backwards through an intersection at a hundred and like 15 miles an hour in Queens. I'm very happy that I walked away with a complete car, but, and it stepped out in a way I had never experienced before. Like I had, I was a magazine journal so I had driven a bunch of things and it was just this, it was something to tame.
And I think that's where it initially comes from. I don't think the modern cars are that way. I mean, the Please save me button sure helps a lot. But yeah. But I don't know, I, I, I, I think I, I live sort of in the middle 'cause I think there are some design flaws here. You're like, yeah, well that's kind of the charm of the car and you kind of have to stick with the charm of it and you can't change too much of it.
You know, like I struggle, like I really like Volkswagen rabbits and for a while I've wanted to build either a rear wheel drive one or an all wheel drive one. But then I also, like, I've become more pragmatic as I've gotten older to realize that both of those will suck and I should just buy a Miata.
That's fair. And obviously cut the roof off. 'cause I can't see through it, but like, you know, which
[02:00:26] Speaker 2: Miata.
[02:00:27] Speaker: Uh, with na and, and na, whatever the first one is, right? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever short part was, that's right. Answer. Yeah. Yeah. So,
[02:00:33] Speaker 3: but as far as fixing a design flaw, so like there's a design flaw on the 3 0 8 and maybe on other Ferraris of the era, I have no idea, but I made a mountain of work.
The hardest part of that entire project was because I wanted to fix a design flaw, which is, and I don't know if you're familiar, you might be the, uh, rear hub of a 3 0 8 has a hard 90 degree angle on the inside of it, which from a machining perspective becomes a stress point. And it's a known thing that if you have like big sticky tires on even a stock bodied 3 0 8, you can cause that to fracture and the wheel comes off the car, and that's without having a wide body, modern tires, et cetera.
It's possible to break that because of how it's manufactured. There was one company for a while that made replacements, that had a, had a fillet there. I tried to find someone, I got my car, couldn't do it. And so as a result, because of this problem, I could have been like, oh, I'm gonna machine new. Hub.
Right. You know what have you. Instead, I took all of the suspension off the car, took the control arms off, and designed everything myself and made new control arms and uprights and all of it to solve in part that problem. So,
[02:01:48] Speaker: but solving it is like a big part of the joy you take out of working on cars, right?
Like that is the thing that you enjoy, right?
[02:01:55] Speaker 3: Yeah. Well it's a lot cooler to be like, yeah, I made my own control arms and uprights for this car to try to improve it. And
[02:02:00] Speaker 2: it would almost be silly to not fix that when you're doing an entire build. Well,
[02:02:06] Speaker 3: I knew that I had to 'cause with what I wanted to do with the car and go and track it, even without a wide body on it, I was like, I, I don't want to be going through, you know, Riverside at button willow at, you know, a hundred and something miles an hour and watch my wheel safety first guys.
Yeah.
[02:02:19] Speaker: I lost the wheel on my ferri. Did
[02:02:21] Speaker 3: you?
[02:02:21] Speaker: Yeah, story time. Um, it was here. I had gotten a flat, I had taken the wheel off 'cause I have center locks and, um, humble brag and changed the tire, brought it back in, put the car back together and then didn't have a, the, uh, super big ratchet to tighten the center locks.
So I just spun it tight and then forgot about it. Car sat here for two or three weeks. Oh no. And then we were doing an event at Hogan and someone's like, Hey, can you go grab the Ferrari? And like, someone brought either like Ubered back here or actually I think I rode like my bike back here, jumped in it and started driving away without the.
Lu on and came around the corner, uh, right by outside my house or like on the main street. Came around the corner and in my, and something felt like weird, like I had a flat and watched the wheel come. I looked in my side mirror and saw the wheel coming off, and I slammed the brakes, stopped it dead in the middle of the intersection and the rim was hanging on by like the last three and a half millimeters just sitting there.
And by complete luck, all of the boys who worked in the shop were coming home from lunch and were coming. And I was like on the crest of a hill where I thought I was gonna get hit. So I was standing there like with my hands up so people wouldn't hit the car. And the boys came and they had an F four, the F four 50 with a jack in the back.
[02:03:38] Speaker 3: Incredible. Like,
[02:03:39] Speaker: the luck of that's the same, like, it would've taken a whole rear quarter. Like it would've just been, I mean, it would've been painful 'cause it would've pretty much salva, it would've been like salvage title left car. 'cause it would've just wrecked the whole back. But
[02:03:51] Speaker 2: center lock's nice.
[02:03:52] Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah. The actual motor sport ones,
[02:03:54] Speaker 3: you said Flex and I laugh to myself because to, like most people, it's a flex. And then to those that have them, oh, we all, they're, we just know. It's like, oh, I, I had to buy like a
[02:04:05] Speaker: $600 tool just to take them on, off Just to paint like the socket
[02:04:09] Speaker 2: or the wrench?
The whole, the whole wre.
[02:04:10] Speaker: I have like the whole wrench and the whole thing. So, okay. So
[02:04:13] Speaker 2: this is, this is probably my qualm with Ferrari.
[02:04:17] Speaker: One. Oh, you have one? Yeah. This is it. We're two hours. Let's go 10 minutes in. And finally a qualm comes.
[02:04:23] Speaker 2: My, my car has monologues as well. Yeah. Um, mono dodo s the fuck, I, I say when you say
[02:04:30] Speaker: mono, I, I, I said this to wheel guys, I call them mono locks, like the Jason Whipple.
He's like, just call them center locks. I'm like that, that's what they call them. He's like, just call 'em a center lock. Or
[02:04:40] Speaker 2: people would be like, no knockoff. They're not technically no knockoffs. The tester Rosa
[02:04:42] Speaker: is
[02:04:42] Speaker 3: center lock.
[02:04:43] Speaker 2: It is the early cards war. So, um, 84 through 87
[02:04:47] Speaker 3: did not know that they were center lock.
[02:04:48] Speaker 2: And then they upgraded to five looks. Um, but
[02:04:51] Speaker 3: upgraded.
[02:04:52] Speaker 2: They did, they did. It's mu it's a whole lot easier to fix. But anyway, in the toolkit, um, these cars came with a toolkit and in it was the, the wrench to knock off your, your lug.
[02:05:05] Speaker: W What does that tool look like? Like when you say knock off, is it like an old fashioned style wrench?
A bras like anch, like a bra hammer. Like a,
[02:05:12] Speaker 2: a spanner. So it would, it, it's the wrench and then it comes with a hammer and you literally just hit it off. Oh, okay. Yeah. So
[02:05:17] Speaker: it is like an old fashioned knockoff. Yeah.
[02:05:18] Speaker 2: Um, that wrench or this, uh, these wheels are shared with the 2 88 GTOs,
[02:05:26] Speaker: right?
[02:05:26] Speaker 2: That's a multimillion dollar car.
So if you wanna buy that wrench, because there's only so many that exist and they also belong to a million dollar car. I tried to source one 'cause I didn't think my toolkit came with one. Four grand just for one wrench.
[02:05:41] Speaker: He's got a 3D scanner. We can cut you one tomorrow. We can, we can even sand cast you one in brass
[02:05:46] Speaker 3: if you want.
[02:05:46] Speaker 2: The most amazing thing happened on Tuesday morning. I was doing a little vacuum and my FR and lifted up my carpet and was kind of going around my spare tire a little bit and I saw silver CAD shining out from the corner. A little piece of silver ca that I had never seen before. That's not come up and it was the spanner, the $4,000 spanner that I didn't think had that is so, I love
[02:06:12] Speaker: when moments like that, yeah, I've had so I feel $4,000 worth but I've found things like, so
[02:06:17] Speaker 2: anyway that's my qualm up.
Like try. It's the same thing. It's just more expensive. Even if you have this, the cheaper car, you still have to,
[02:06:23] Speaker 3: that's pay the price. That's your one qualm. That's the only one.
[02:06:26] Speaker: That's it. That's it. That's it. Other than that, she is completely at peace with dedicated all things Ferrari has done. I've really enjoyed this conversation.
You obviously are like, you and I are somewhat closer. You may be a little bit more. To the whatever side. Um, but I, I, I really appreciate 'cause it, I have to say like, it's a little eye-opening for me because your love for cars comes from just a different place than mine does. Like, I, I just like, I've really been listening and going,
[02:06:53] Speaker 5: Hmm,
[02:06:54] Speaker: okay.
Kind of changes my thoughts on a lot of this. 'cause you really, really appreciate the originality of this. And my wife is like this with houses. So like, our house is a 1958 mid-century modern and everything in it is original. And we have painstakingly returned everything to original. And some of it is not good.
Like, we have a lighting system that is a 12 volt lighting system that runs off of relays. So every single light in the house, you, you push the button and it turns a relay that then connects the one 20
[02:07:30] Speaker 2: design floor.
[02:07:32] Speaker: Arguably. But there's a charm to it, right? And like, I appreciate that and I, and I, I'm not that person, right?
Like, I would just modify everything and make everything feel new. And my, and I've learned to like watch my wife sort of kind of go through this process of like actually how much work it is to make everything original and to go back and, and like understand the original design philosophy so that when you do have to remake something, you actually understand how to remake it, which is like a completely different art than for me.
And I think the closest I ever got to that was I was, I got really into traditional hot rods and I got really into like, you have to do it this way because like that's the way it was done in the, in like, you know, the fifties. So like that's the way you do it and you do it that way because like that's part of the cool part, like part of the cool thing is doing it and look, it's all about hot roding and it's all about modifying, but you have to like, there's just certain ways that was accepted in other ways that weren't.
And I think that's the only thing to me that I've ever been like slightly purist in. And part of the fun was like the search for it all. 'cause you can't find it. Like the interesting thing when you get really big into modifying cars, it's like it's all race car parts at a certain point. Or you make it and you just machine it yourself.
It's a lot harder when you're like, I'm looking for this one specific intake manifold and it hasn't been cast in 52 years and you know, I've gotta find it. And like, there's a fun hunt in that and like, I enjoy that with like rare car parts for like my Volkswagen and stuff. But it's, I don't know. I just wanna say I, I enjoy your perspective of this and I also, you have stayed true even though Mike is aggressive on his Felix and he, he just wants you to come and be part of his team.
He wants you to start modifying cars. Well,
[02:09:08] Speaker 2: like I said earlier, I think there's room for everybody and just because the majority of my work has been, you know, kind of staying a purist and respecting, um, these cars as they've come from the factory, that doesn't mean that's how I feel about every car I ever made.
And I'm curious to hear what your, both of your opinions would be. If I were to get a car to Maud, what car for somebody that's never done that. What car should I get?
[02:09:32] Speaker 3: The car that you wanna modify? I don't, I don't know that there's another, like, I wouldn't pick a car to say you should modify this. Like, to me, people ask me that all the time.
Like, oh, what car should I get? I want to do something. It's like, that's a, and this isn't meant to sound dismissive. That's the craziest question to me because it's like, well don't, isn't there a car that you want to modify? Isn't there something, and I mean that open-endedly, but like the only answers. The car that you, that you want, the car that you would be like, okay, I want to tinker with this.
[02:10:03] Speaker: I do think there are practical answers to that though, because you, you have a, you are part of the 1%, which means everything you look at is possible. You're building an F 42 frame car. There is you're, that's even less than the 1%, although I do wanna bring up, how do you feel about all of a sudden there's like four F 40 projects right now on YouTube?
We, we can go into that. Get that, we'll get dinner. Wasn't
[02:10:26] Speaker 2: there one at SEMA this year too?
[02:10:28] Speaker: There might have been like an f there. There was, yes. Well, let, let, let's pin that for a second. But I think, like, obviously I'm a Volkswagen kid, but like a Mark two Volkswagen's a really fun car to modify. Why?
Because a ton of people have done it before. There's a ton of stuff out there and they can all live in what's called O em plus, which means like 90% of what you're gonna do to that vehicle is take parts from later Volkswagens and swap them in, which is like Lego kit style stuff. Sure. And, which is kind of nice about that because like you're still living in a world of things that were created for the road are not really super aftermarket.
And other than maybe some swap kit stuff you need, like you can Lego these things and, and there's a lot of fun in in that. And you can do it with Hondas too. And Hondas are even, I think, simpler and easier. I just don't know Hondas as well. So for me it's like Mark two. GTI, super fun Cari mod. And the result is something that's really fun to drive and somewhat affordable these days, I think, to like go build and I like Volkswagens.
Um, and then I can invite you to our really cool Volkswagen event called TR Punk Set. We we're do once a year that Mike is gonna try to build his Audi for next year. But, um, sweet. But like, I think that, but at the same time, I like modding really weird stuff too. Like, I like the thing that like people aren't normally doing or aren't building, and all my buddies joke with me, which they're like, I have 25 cars and like, if you would sell all but five, you would have one of the coolest car collections.
But instead you have a bunch of weird cars. They're like, you have a Ferrari, you have an RS two, you have a nine 11, but like you talk about your quantum wagon or your Vanna gun or like your weird Audi 220 valve turbo a v that like they only made 149 of. And like to me, like I really like that and I think it's cool, but at the same time I have no problem modifying them.
Like I, I just, I enjoy that. Um, so I, I I think like it all depends on like why you wanna modify it, but I don't know. Or maybe you should do something that like, like a launch year or something that like you sure. You can like attach back to 'cause it, I, I, I just, the thing I took from this conversation is like you really seem to enjoy the history of things and how that definitely ties into it.
So. And I do too. Like for me, especially like in the world of Audi, because I love rally racing so much. Like it's really hard for me to put a non five cylinder engine in those cars. I'll put a modern five cylinder. But because that engine was so important to rally in their, you know, into Audi and their story and rally racing.
So like that's something that like I can be a little purist about. I will completely rebuild that. I will, if someone has an aluminum like block that they want to give me for it, I will use that as well. But I do like that the architecture is the same original intended architecture. That being said, I'd also move it back four inches in the car.
[02:13:07] Speaker 2: Yeah. Um, but you're kind of paying homage,
[02:13:09] Speaker: but Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I think I live between the two of you guys. Like there's certain things that I think are blasphemous and like, you have to, you do it this way because otherwise is it still that car?
[02:13:19] Speaker 2: Sure. Well people, I mean, why I ask was, because people ask me all the time, they say, Hey, I wanna get a Ferrari.
What Ferrari should I get? Where do I start?
[02:13:25] Speaker: Yeah. What do you say? I was just,
[02:13:26] Speaker 2: I was just curious. What do you
[02:13:28] Speaker: answer to that? I mean,
[02:13:28] Speaker 2: the first question is, what's your goal with the car,
[02:13:30] Speaker: right?
[02:13:31] Speaker 2: Do you wanna driver, are you trying to, you know, start participating in the concor circuit? Yeah. Um, do you wanna just do events or do you want an investment?
[02:13:42] Speaker 3: I mean, I think that's a great set of questions and I get probably not like all too different of a set of questions I would want to ask you if I were gonna try to help you narrow down what car to modify. But ultimately, I don't know. I think coming back to like, it's, it's a creative thing for me and like I.
There's a list of a thousand cars, not exaggerating that like, I still want to get my hands on and do things with, and I would love to see you pick something and modify it and see what you do and like have fun with it and see what it means. Not necessarily like to break the rules or anything, but just like, I don't know, because modification is not just such a big part of the car thing for me.
It's like, it is all of it to me. And it is like as he's, I'm, I'm on this end of this spectrum that we have here. Like I'm way off the deep end. I'm like, it's all I do. I don't have other hobbies like this. This is it. But I'm so passionate about it. And to, to have a discussion with somebody that is clearly just as into cars, but into them in such a completely different way, it almost rattles me a little bit because I wanna be like, Hey, how could, how could, how, how could we share an appreciation for the same like thing two completely different lanes?
And I want, I want everybody in the car world to enjoy the things, not the same way that I enjoy them, but like I want to sh, I have my YouTube channel and I put my stuff out there because I want other people to feel like, oh, I can go out in the garage and. Do something similar to whatever it may be. I don't care what you build, just go build something.
And so there is room for that to be, yeah, just this perfect restoration. But now I want, I, I wanna see you like, I wanna see you wrench on something. It's like making it,
[02:15:24] Speaker: it's interesting 'cause I, I follow both of you and I enjoy both of your content in such different ways. 'cause like I'll see what you do.
And I'll be like, wow, that's cool. I would like, I wouldn't even have thought of that. Right. Or I'd sit and see something you do like, man, I wish I had the time to like engineer and develop that and go build that. But then I'll watch something that she does that is like this painstaking method to do it the way that it was originally intended to put something back together.
And I'm like, I wish my A DHD wouldn't get in the way of that.
[02:15:53] Speaker 3: I don't think that I could do what you do. Like,
[02:15:56] Speaker: like I wish I could be that precise with it because like, engine building alone is something that like, I wish I could do, but like I just, the attention span of the measuring, I don't, I forget I'm doing halfway through and I'm like, oh, what did, did I measure?
What is the, oh, oh, did I put that back in? Like, I, I always like, I second triple, quadruple guess everything I do when I do engines, because anything that is that delicate and precise, I'm not good at pull the transmission out of a car, redo suspension, like welch shit together. Like I'm key. Like that's good.
I like the big heavy movement pieces. The precision stuff is something that I wish I had the patience for more. I can do it, but it's, it takes a lot of mental bandwidth to do it. And like, that's your, like that's, that's your therapy. My
[02:16:37] Speaker 2: bread. Bread and yeah, that's my bread and butter. I love the doing the methodical work is really, it's just kind of like bliss for me.
That's my favorite part.
[02:16:44] Speaker: What's your favorite? Like thing you've done since you've gotten to really kind of dive in and work on Ferraris. Like what's that project that you're like, this was cool, other than maybe working on your own car. But
[02:16:55] Speaker 2: yeah, I mean, working on my own car, like for, you know, emotional, personal reasons has been really gratifying.
But as far as a aha moment, like this is a really cool thing that I get to put on my resume now. Um, just doing a full entire rebuild on a 3 6 5 GTP four motor and then running it on the dyno and you know, having it not blow up, that was pretty cool. Oh yeah, I could imagine. And I mean, and now we're finishing up the restoration and it's about to go back in the car.
And that's the
[02:17:23] Speaker 3: Daytona, right? Is
[02:17:23] Speaker: that, yeah. Okay. Just making sure.
[02:17:25] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[02:17:25] Speaker: What is some, what does a rebuild like that cost?
[02:17:29] Speaker 2: Um, to the
[02:17:29] Speaker: customer?
[02:17:30] Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it depends on how extensive it is, but I'd say starting price is
[02:17:38] Speaker: that, like, that just gives me anxiety. Like the knowing how expensive stuff is and you're like, it's a lot,
[02:17:44] Speaker 2: you know, it takes, it takes time and it, it, it needs to be perfect, but you're the one
[02:17:48] Speaker: assembling it.
And if it's wrong Yeah, totally. You're like, oh, that just cost me. That just cost.
[02:17:53] Speaker 3: Yeah. I couldn't do it. I literally, yeah, I have this Audi motor that I know that like, I, I could put that engine together and the mirror concept of doing it is so stressful to me that I pass it off to Jason Whipple. 'cause. He, he can do it.
That's his way.
[02:18:08] Speaker: My, my eight valve engine for my golf is at Whipple Machine Works. Just because I'm like, I don't want to build it.
[02:18:14] Speaker 3: I don't, I I don't know how you do that. I, people ask me all the time, why don't you build your own engine if you keep having, it's like not, it's just a car. Not the precision
[02:18:21] Speaker 2: stuff.
It's funny, like I've just kind of been trained to have the mentality that you let the person that specializes in that one thing do that one thing. Mm-hmm. So, um, if you are, yeah, I mean, if you need to make new pistons, we're not gonna machine new pistons in house, right. One, we don't have the tooling, but two, let the person that they only do pistons, let them do the pistons.
'cause they're gonna do them better than we could ever.
[02:18:45] Speaker: At what point in your sort of process did you sit there and go, this is the thing, like engine building is something that I like gravitated to, like,
[02:18:53] Speaker 2: I got lucky. Um, it was my first semester in school and I had no hands-on experience. I did kind of, my favorite story to tell is the professor in like the first day of my class said, okay, go up to the tool board and grab vice grips, grab this, grab that.
And I didn't know what any of this stuff was. I had to, I walked up to the tool board and I had to watch the other kids grab what tools to get. 'cause I just had zero comprehension understanding of what anything was. Wait,
[02:19:18] Speaker: do you use vice grips while rebuilding Ferrari engines? 'cause I would love that.
[02:19:22] Speaker 2: I mean, yeah.
In, in certain applications. Gotta for like pulling out a Dow pin or whatever. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Well, aluminum castings with steel studs. Mm-hmm. It's, you know, something's gonna break. But, um, so I, I was really lucky early on, I just really took toward engine rebuilding and those mechanical sorts of classes, which I wasn't, growing up, I wasn't a good student.
I hated math. But I think I saw or see, uh, something that's really creative about the process and it's not just, you know, one plus one equals two. A lot of times you really have to think outside of the box to find a solution. So,
[02:19:59] Speaker: yeah, I mean, I think that's what I think all of us enjoy about the cars, right?
Is like, is that it's not actually always an easy thing to solve. And I think, you know, for him he's like two plus two equals 5,947 square root. Like he wants to go maybe the craziest route to get there. And, you know, and I, I'm probably somewhere in the middle and you're on the other side of that, of like two plus two equals 4.7 because Enzo said so.
And then it's always gonna, and like, and you're gonna stick to that. Right. Which is like a completely different way of, of looking at it. Okay. We, we've like, we're almost at the two hour and 30 mark. Not that our, the people who listen to the show love going long, but I want to, I want to. I wanna start to land the plane, which I feel like we could talk for a few more hours.
'cause I feel like we're, we've barely scratched the surface. We'll have you guys back. Um, this was a experiment that I've enjoyed. It's kind of fun watching this, this conversation.
[02:20:50] Speaker 3: Very fun. And I want to iterate again, as said, I love to argue and like some of my friends and I like, we'll sit here and do this nonstop.
And then other friends of mine will be like, you guys are going at each other. This sounds so toxic or whatever. And it's like, we'll sit there and be like, what are you talking about? This is great. So, so it's not
[02:21:07] Speaker 2: personal, it's business. But I'll also,
[02:21:09] Speaker 3: well, I want, before you get there, I wanna say I've probably been more abrasive through some of this than I think that I'm being, because that's, I just, I'm excited and I like to make my points and what have you, and both of you guys have been, and especially you as the newcomer to this.
Like, I've known Brian for a long time. You've, you've, I feel like we, we brought you out to Deep Water and you have been treading. No problem. We're so good. This has been fun. So this is great. You guys
[02:21:31] Speaker: are red. Originally I was gonna have Vinny come on, right? And I thought, oh, Vinny, like three people who own Ferraris.
And I was like, they, I was like, you know what? I was like, Vinny's kind of like non purist light. It's like Burroughs is like pure, non purist, extreme. I was like, that'd be a good, good combo of people to, to have in the room. So, but here I want a couple like random kind of conversations. So, um, or thoughts. We all, one thing I like about all three of us is I think everyone has this feeling of like, cars are not to be stored.
Right. And look, I realize I might sound very rich in saying that 'cause I own 25 cars and a bunch of 'em never drive. But I also don't own a daily driver because I like to drive my cars. My cars break all the time and I've just gotten used to, it's just part of my life. In the last week, I blew up my, the rear end of my van.
It sucks. And then I just swapped it out, drove the van and gone. And I just keep moving around and because I, I got to this moment where I've talked about this before, but I got to this moment where I had like a really nice daily driver and it like made me forget about my car. 'cause it's just so easy to jump in that.
So like when you told me that you actually drove like the tester down here, I was like, this is awesome. Like I need, do you have a
[02:22:41] Speaker 3: daily driver?
[02:22:43] Speaker 2: Um, before this I did daily. I did. Wait, is this
[02:22:46] Speaker: your only car?
[02:22:47] Speaker 2: Um, I have a mini Cooper.
[02:22:49] Speaker: Oh, okay.
[02:22:49] Speaker 2: Um, but so this is the
[02:22:51] Speaker: reliable one.
[02:22:51] Speaker 2: Well.
[02:22:52] Speaker: Oh, whew.
[02:22:54] Speaker 2: Um, but the whole point in me getting this was to drive it.
I'm gonna show people that you can use and drive your cars and. They're gonna break and I'm gonna fix 'em. And yeah, I, it's gonna be great.
[02:23:04] Speaker: I love this about you and I love this for you. So here's a question. Um, the three of us are in a challenge. We have to drive from Los Angeles to, uh, let's say from Los Angeles to New York.
And we have to stop at like two or three competition level things along the way. Hill climb, uh, you know, circuit, track, you know, something like that. No drag racing, just something kind of fun. Um, and you have to buy, you have to bring a car that was made before 1990, right? What, what are you bringing? You
have to fix it yourself, right? Like, so you've got, which I think everyone here, how high
[02:23:43] Speaker 3: performance are we going?
[02:23:45] Speaker: It's, you've gotta manage the enjoyment. Like it's not a real competition. There's no winner at the end. 'cause you have to enjoy it. Like, part of the thing is, is like this has to be enjoyable for you.
[02:23:54] Speaker 3: There is no question that, I'm just going back to my Euro E 28 and five, like that, that is the end all car for me. That is my favorite car. It is relatively speaking, very attainable. Um, no question. No question. It's the best car I ever made.
[02:24:11] Speaker: Best car I ever made, best car ever made. That's
[02:24:12] Speaker 3: a bold statement.
I, I, I believe it and I'm ready to argue it.
[02:24:17] Speaker: Yeah, I mean, religion's a powerful thing.
[02:24:21] Speaker 4: Is it a cop out if I pick my car? No,
[02:24:23] Speaker: I wanna
[02:24:24] Speaker 4: drive my car.
[02:24:25] Speaker: I love it.
[02:24:25] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[02:24:27] Speaker: I, I, for me it's probably a markwan rabbit. Maybe not the one I currently have. 'cause I don't know if it'll like, it took me a little to get started to get outta the driveway this morning.
But you know, like I just, it just works for me. And it's not competitive, but it's fun.
[02:24:39] Speaker 3: I think I'm gonna win this competition then if hers breaks down. I didn't say besides engine i'd or if we have to, if we have to carry any passengers, then you're kind of out on that one. You get one. I have a fr you can chop 'em up.
So
[02:24:52] Speaker: you're driving the E 28, you're driving the test, you get there and now you have to get back to the West Coast and you have to agree on a car that both of you will drive back. Cross
[02:25:06] Speaker 3: country. See, I'm agreeable on, on that kind of thing. Whatever. Whatever you wanna drive. I don't care. I know that's like the least fun answer, but I don't know.
I feel like any answer to the question's gonna be interesting. I'll drive anything. That's as long as, I mean, even if you said, oh, I wanna drive like a, what is it? A Pontiac? Okay, I'll up.
[02:25:23] Speaker: What? I mean, I'll up the stakes. You have to trade your E 28 and your tester for this car.
[02:25:28] Speaker 3: Like ownership. Have to own it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And now you guys, now we gotta live with this thing. Yeah, you gotta
[02:25:32] Speaker: live with this thing and, and let's not get into the equal value. Let's not make it about value. It has to be like, you both are like, okay, I feel happy with that,
[02:25:42] Speaker 3: but my, the list of cars for me is so long. It's, I Okay then we'll struggle, we'll start, we'll start with Victoria.
[02:25:47] Speaker 4: I, I
[02:25:50] Speaker 3: throw one out. I'll tell you if I'm in,
[02:25:52] Speaker 2: um. Like seventies land cruiser.
[02:25:58] Speaker 3: Perfect.
[02:25:59] Speaker: Wow. I think that could be a good common ground for the two of you.
[02:26:02] Speaker 3: Yeah, I've had, I would love
[02:26:03] Speaker 2: to rip that thing up. I've,
[02:26:04] Speaker 3: I've had a lot of land cruisers, so Yeah. I'm, I'm in. Yeah, that was a lots comfortable,
[02:26:09] Speaker 2: you could do some not
[02:26:11] Speaker 3: comfortable, to be clear.
[02:26:12] Speaker 2: I think it's comfortable.
[02:26:14] Speaker 3: Have you spent extended periods of time in life? I
[02:26:15] Speaker 2: have not.
[02:26:16] Speaker 3: They're not. Did you have one? Uh, so I've had, when you say seventies, eighties, you mean by by year or by chassis? 'cause there's 70 series or 1970s.
[02:26:25] Speaker 2: Oh, I don't know them well enough to know chassis. So, so I was thinking year 1970s
[02:26:29] Speaker 3: would be FJ 40.
FJ 40 is basically a truck body on a tractor like that. It is a glorified tractor. A not as comfortable. Okay. Not comfortable. I've had, I've had an FJ 40. Really cool. Not very fun to like really be in, outside of it has tons of character and so it's really cool, but like not a comfortable car 60 series, which would be the eighties is where they get a bit more comfortable.
But you're still talking about a, a leaf sprung solid axle. Like they're comfortable but not comfortable. You know,
[02:27:04] Speaker: I you got maybe the common ground that you guys find is in trucks. I
[02:27:09] Speaker 3: mean, I love trucks, so we've been over that. I can compromise. I don't even think there has to be compromise. If you want ac, if you want, if FJ 40 is the answer I'm in.
I'm, I'm easy. You do seem easy that
[02:27:19] Speaker: way. Yeah. I, not on most things. Michael's not, Mike's not easy on most things. I easy going.
[02:27:25] Speaker 3: I am just very opinionated. I have, I'm strong in your opinion, strong opinions. Yeah. I get that. But I'm like, I'm flexible on them. Like
[02:27:33] Speaker: I, I, I think as I get older, I get a little bit closer to her side.
Like I was, so you 10 years ago, and I guess I'm about 10 years older than you, um, where like everything was modified. Nothing was precious and I didn't care about like, any kind of purity. I don't know if it's a bit of like the travels and like the journey of my wife in our house that has made me sort of appreciate like this is how it was originally designed.
And it's kind of cool to just keep that and respect the history of it all. That's like, moved that a little bit to cars. But I am started moving into a world of like, I could maybe see having like an original car.
[02:28:12] Speaker 3: Well, but
[02:28:12] Speaker: like I was so not there 10 years ago. Like I, and I'm actually like, I just bought this Pentagon and in my head at like 9, 9, 6 engine transmission slammed like, you know, running 17 inch with like wheels, like, you know, Porsche fitment, like big brakes, this whole thing.
And I've been driving in stock for like a month and a half and I'm like, this is really good stock. Well, which is like, which is upsetting for me because I was always the like, everything needs to be like heavily modified and every, and like Vinny always jokes because she's like, your kink is like the weird of the modification.
Like, I have a VR six in a Corolla. Right? Like that's, I mean, you know, it's like you have, you are even more on that level. Um, and it's not just the YouTube thing. 'cause part of it was like, oh, build really crazy things for YouTube. Sure. Because that's what YouTube wants. But I also like, that's just like the, the how, that's my fantasy when I sit there looking on marketplace and I'm like, Ooh, it'd be cool to take this and put this in that.
Like I just enjoy the Lego pieces of it all. Um, but I am, as I'm getting older, just starting to kind of like, oh, this is kind, I kind of just enjoy this as it was because it is a moment gone. Like those type of cars don't exist anymore. And I'm actually just appreciating like what they are. But like, when I first got into modifying cars, I had a car that was still sold in a dealership, right?
Like I had a mark three golf while Mark threes were still available in a dealership. That has really changed to where I am today. Where like I get into a stock mark three right now and like I still need it to be lowered and have wheels on it. But there's just something kind of weirdly nostalgic that I've begun to enjoy about just cars from the eighties and nineties.
Just stock that I never thought I was gonna have 10 years ago. 'cause I was the like, modify it all. I mean, my Nova's a good example. Sure it looks a certain way, but like it's pretty modern underneath, right? Like it has, you know. It has, you know, EFI, it has like modern suspension, full new chassis, like all these things.
But I wanted it to look away, but I was like, it has to drive a different way. It's like, I don't know, that's like all starting to like change and like it worries me. It worries me because like, I, I, so I, I listen to the two of you on this banter and it's like, a lot of times I'm like, why am I not agreeing with boroughs right now?
[02:30:22] Speaker 2: Well, it's like there are like time capsules. Yeah. It's, it takes you to a time that no longer is. Yeah. And there's something to be appreciated. Obviously can, things can be improved, but I,
[02:30:30] Speaker 3: I do get it at times where it's, if we come back one final time to this Euro M five that I don't own, that I want, it's like, that's my, that's my bucket list car.
And when I own one, I'm not gonna say I won't modify it, but the extent of modifications would be like maybe changing out the factory springs and struts for like, and maybe, maybe wheels and tires and that'd be it. But I'd be completely content with that car being bone stock. I don't have a, like, I don't wanna change the rest of it.
I wouldn't wanna hot rod it, I wouldn't wanna do anything else to it. Like I want an original one. I want, like, they're pretty rare. There's 745 of them. I want an original one. Like I want it to be stock. I'd wanna keep it stock. So like, I get it. I just, I hope, I hope I don't find myself in a place where I lose the desire to.
Be doing all the, like, I guess, I don't wanna say like modifications, but at least like the tinkering. But to me that's what tinkering is, is modifying my car. 'cause I've never pursued the like, oh, I just wanna put it back together. All perfect.
[02:31:35] Speaker: So the car that changed that for me was when I bought the Swallowtail, right?
Which is 1975 Volkswagen Rabbit. The first year was like a special year and they had this little cut in the rear, which made a swallow tail, but it's kind of like a weird car 'cause it's a lot of single year parts on it by 76. And you know, on they, they changed a lot. And then by 80 it all really changed because they all became us built.
And when I bought that car from a friend of mine, he's like, Corey, he's like, you know, it doesn't run. He's like, you know, come get it with a trailer. I don't think you should try to drive it home. Like it barely starts. And I had already gotten an engine for it out of a, out of a nineties car that I was gonna put in a a BF 16 valve.
And like I already started buying all these parts because in my head this, I was gonna build the car that I wanted to build when I was 20 years old and couldn't afford to build. So I was like revisiting my Volkswagen roots. 'cause I kind of abandoned them for years. I was like, okay, I'm gonna go build this thing.
And I had this like blueprint because I had this blueprint in my head since I was in my twenties. I'm gonna go build this car. I, it was like the middle of the pandemic and I was kind of bored. I was like, you know what? I just wanted to run under its own 1975 power. Before I pull the engine. So I was like, I'm gonna spend the next week or two just trying to get it to run.
It's carbureted, it still runs on points, right? It's, it's very classic and it's actually a lot of stuff that like I didn't have much experience with, 'cause I grew up in the CIS and fuel injection kind of world. So I was like, okay, this would be kind of fun to do. Still has a mechanical fuel pump. Half of the stuff was like unobtainium, like searching for it, finding like, you know, new old stock parts and trying to put it all together.
And I gotta the point I'm like, man, I've now spent like a decent amount of money, like 500 bucks to basically get an engine to run that I'm gonna pull out in a week. I get the thing fired up and I start driving it and in my head I'm like, I'm gonna do this for a week. And I kind of was doing it for content.
It was like, oh, it'd be cool. First episode, Scotto gets the car back and running just to show how slow it is. It still is under the same setup. Now, five years later, I have now finally decided that I want to put another engine in it. But I like, it was like, man, I kind of like actually really enjoyed trying to make all the old stuff work again in a way that I wouldn't.
But at the same time, I was also building the coop where the coop was like so crazy and so over the top that I was like, well, outside of like my, my skillset. And I had built something that kind of became this monster. So I had this like juxtaposition of this rabbit that was just like very simple and very easy.
And the thing that's been crazy about it is like it breaks all the time and I can always fix it. I can't say that about a lot of my other cars. Like there's something so simple about it that's like a screwdriver, a vice grip, like a few little parts and like I can get it running again. And like I know the stuff I need to carry with me, which is like weird things.
Like I need a hose so I can like self prime the pump. Like just weird. Like so I can sit there and just suck on it and not, it has needs to be clear. So I don't drink gasoline. Like it's like, but there's like a few things that I just carry with me. I don't fix it. I just sort of enjoy it and it made me sort of change my mind.
That being said. I'm still putting in a bigger engine, but it also changed the engine I was putting in. 'cause I was like, you know what, this car needs to be an eight valve instead of doing a 16 valve engine. And I want the engine to feel a little bit more period. Correct. Which is something that, you know, six or seven years ago, me just, I don't think ever saw.
So I don't know. It could happen to you. We could get back together in 10 years from now, he could be doing a perfect nut and bolt restoration and you could have a launch delta. I met sema. You have aima with a wide body, with a wide body luso, you know, you never know. Like it could, it could happen. You know, like things change.
And that's what makes like, I think to the point you keep making, it's kind of what I love about the automotive hobby. It's like we, there's no rules to how you can enjoy this. You can enjoy it in such different ways. And maybe the, the two of your algorithms will start to blend. You'll start to get fed really weird motor swaps and you'll be like, maybe, maybe you'll see one that you like and maybe you'll see something you're like, wow, that's so original and I like it.
So you're, where are you going after this? So like, you're driving back home, like you, you are here for a few days. Yeah. Going, going
[02:35:34] Speaker 2: back home, um, I'm probably gonna grease my wheel bearings and my CV joints as my next step on the car. But I'm sure you could go to Mike's and do
[02:35:43] Speaker 3: it at his place. Have a full shop.
Yeah. Yeah. If, if you actually need access to a shop while you're down here, we've got a whole shop with I appreciate that with Yeah. I think pretty, pretty well equipped. I think anything you need to do, I'll have the tools for. Appreciate that. But
[02:35:55] Speaker 2: yeah, I mean, next step for me, I'm driving, driving my car.
[02:35:58] Speaker 3: I wanna highlight just such a critical difference in mindset though.
And kudos to you for like, oh, I'm gonna do this preventative maintenance. I'm gonna, I'm gonna grease my wheel bearings be, you know, just as to get it outta the way. I've never done that in my life. I've never, like, that is not on my radar. It breaks and then you're, when it breaks, it's time to fix it.
[02:36:16] Speaker: I'm, I'm, the only time I do preventative maintenance is when I decide to take an entire car apart.
And I'm like, well, while I'm in here I might as well do it, but I don't do anything
[02:36:25] Speaker 3: else. While you're in there is a bit like, I go over, like if something comes apart, I'm like, I'm replacing all of it. I'm, I'm, yeah. And then it's like, well, what does this attach to? And it's like, before I know what the entire drive line is replaced.
Yeah. But in terms of actual preventative maintenance, Bravo, because that's a language I do not speak.
[02:36:42] Speaker: Yeah. I'm definitely of the like, oh, that coolant line looks like it's fraying. Hmm. Oh, well
[02:36:48] Speaker 7: wonder how long it'll last. Wonder how long it'll
[02:36:49] Speaker: last. But if I'm taking it out, I'm like, you know what would be better than that coolant line?
Like a dash 22 converted to, it's being cool. So what? It costs $400 in fittings. Yeah. So, but yeah, I know it's, it's different. Well, it has been, um. It has been eyeopening to hear you talk about your purest side of things. I've enjoyed actually just listening to the two of you Argue, which is not actually where I saw this episode going, but, um, I've, I've enjoyed it thoroughly.
Um, I'm very happy to say that I have a tester also parked in my driveway. 'cause it is, for me, it's was a hero car. Like as a kid, it was just such a cool thing. So I just, it's too, it doesn't, I don't fit in it. I gotta drive a five 12 tr once, which was super cool, but it was painful to drive. Like, I didn't really FI don't think my knees bend that way anymore.
So
[02:37:35] Speaker 2: you're really the Yeah, the
[02:37:39] Speaker: pretty, I fit the 360, but it's like, it's tough. Like, it's like I fit, it's bigger inside than a nine 11, but the nine 11, 'cause it's a two plus two style, I can actually move the seat back. Like with the, with the 360. I've got the seat kind of gangster leaned just so I can like fit.
But it's fine. You, you make, you know, you make these, you gotta make these, you gotta make these sacrifices, you know, to, to do that. So anyway guys, we are approaching the three hour mark, uh, which puts us at the longest pod I think we've done so far. So two people who had a lot to say and thank you both for coming out.
Do you guys have any closing remarks?
[02:38:15] Speaker 2: See you next time.
[02:38:16] Speaker: Are you gonna come back?
[02:38:17] Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
[02:38:18] Speaker: Hell yeah. Hell yeah. I know you'll come back. Thank you. Yeah, I'll be back anytime. Yeah. Yeah. Anyone you can argue with, he'll, he'll show up.
[02:38:23] Speaker 3: Have me back to this, this, uh, whatever your, your argument show was. The ar the actual argument show.
You mean
[02:38:28] Speaker: unlike the banter show that you turned into an argument show That's sick. I did do that.
[02:38:32] Speaker 3: Um, no, it's good. I love, I love, this was a blast. Thank you for having both of us on. This was a treat. I had fun. I hope I, I hope I didn't come down too hard on you, but this was, this was great.
[02:38:42] Speaker: No, I mean, I think that you guys like it's, you are so from two different perspectives.
I think both of you look at each other like that you don't understand each other, which is great. Do you understand him a little bit more?
[02:38:54] Speaker 6: Yeah. And I think he understands me a little bit.
[02:38:56] Speaker: I think we both do.
[02:38:57] Speaker 3: Absolutely.
[02:38:58] Speaker: The minute that you tied the history to like, why this stuff is so important, I like it painted the picture for me that I, like I said, I attached on my wife's love for making things period.
Correct. And I'm like, I get it, like light bulb. Okay, cool. Like that's, that's where it all that like, that part makes sense to me. So
[02:39:18] Speaker 3: good stuff. Well, thank you again for having us.
[02:39:21] Speaker: Well, thank you guys. I hope you've, uh, enjoyed this pod. And, um, yeah, we should do more of these. I like just taking, this is like a weird like dinner party where you invite people who don't know each other and then you get into nice tense conversations over, you know, what you built your entire identity and career on.
So anyway, I, uh, I look forward to, uh, to more of these and uh, yeah.
[02:39:49] Speaker 5: The mailbox is the The accept. Any messages at time?
Goodbye.
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