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Welcome to the show where nothing is off the table. "The SmokePit" is a place where we talk about any and everything. From celebrities acting out on social media, to serious social topics. We even have the occasional "One Gotta Go" debates as well as monthly brackets that members of our group participate in. Yes, ladies and gents, welcome to 'The SmokePit' where we stay talking about things that would come up at your job's watercooler or smoke pit. Feel free to join in the weekly conversations by joining the "Smokepit Podcast Fan Group" on Facebook.
Well, well, well, what is up, ladies and gentlemen? Once again, it is a Friday as it usually does every, 7 days or so. As you see, full house today. I got, the queens of nerdom up top, Jin and Tay, and then, for the first time ever, my brother, legit brother, by blood and all that stuff, Brian, you probably seen him in the comments, through all the other other shows. So, off the bat, I wanna just say that, normally you come here and, you know, it's it's us making fun of some people, laughing at some some silly stories that that the Internet will put out there.
Mac:But, this week, the Internet has has been blown up. I know kinda in in my circle and, everybody on the screen you see here is a vet. We we decided there was something that we needed to talk about. I personally didn't feel that it would have been right to come here and just, you know, laugh and joke when when something like that is is going on and, the majority of our our group and our our followers are tied to the military, brothers and sisters in arms. So I feel like this is something that, we should talk about and give other people the opportunity to to express themselves.
Mac:But, if you don't know what we're talking about is the the untimely passing of CRM and Roger Fortson, who was stationed down there at Hobert, with the special, special forces. If you don't know, short story short, we're gonna we're gonna talk about it, but law enforcement showed up to his apartment. Somebody called and said there was a disturbance, and we're forced to open the door, had a gun in his hand that he legally owned. Officer, shot him 5 to 6 times, I believe, and the, airman passed away, succumbed to his his injuries. So, I'm not gonna do the whole intro, the it's Friday night coming you know, it's it's it's a pretty somber tone.
Mac:So with that, I guess I will hand it. I'll I'll let Brian start, and then we'll go to Jen and then Tay And and just kinda, I guess, your initial thoughts when you first heard it, I'm assuming, some kind of, like, disbelief, anger, or anything. So, Brian, the floor is yours right now.
Bryan:Oh, like I said, when I first heard about it, you know, I'm I'm I'm at work, you know, sitting at the desk, whatever, and, you know, you get gotta distract yourself from looking at a computer screen all day. So you go down at your phone, and I saw a notification come up saying the airman was shot. And, you know, they had this little, you know, airman picture and stuff. So I hit the link and read the article, and I was like, what? When I was reading the article, they were talking about, they were responding to a domestic dispute or something, and they went to the wrong door.
Bryan:And, he answered the door with the gun, then he got shot. And pretty much basically, that's what the article is pretty much saying. I was confused. I was like, what's going on? You answered over the gun and wrong wrong door.
Bryan:So, you know, I had conflicting feelings about it. But then today, you know, the the they put the the video of the body cam video out, and I saw it. And that's, like, the anger kinda kinda set in. It was like, alright. What's going on, man?
Bryan:Because what I saw was, yes, the sheriff came to the door, knocked on the door. No. The deputy came to the door, knocked on the door, and said, you know, he announced himself, his unit or whatever. But instead of, you know, standing there and and, you know, waiting for the door to open, he stands to the side, which, you know, I understand. Yeah.
Bryan:You don't want nobody once you say the police are here, You don't want to stand next to the door so they can shoot the door or whatever. But if it's just a domestic call, then, you know, you're just gonna do what you gotta do. Didn't say anything about weapons being involved or anything. So, you know, but when he finally answers the door, he has the gun on him. And it's like I said, it's drawn down.
Bryan:All he does, he pulls his weapon up and don't even say, like, put the gun down or nothing. He's just 123456. After 6 one, put the gun down. I'm like, dude, you already shot him. Oh, yeah.
Bryan:Yes. He's gonna put the gun down. So that's where the anger came from. And then also I had questions was like, okay. Why did he have his gun when he answered the door?
Bryan:But in the article, I I did read an article saying he was on FaceTime with his girlfriend or something. And Mhmm. He said he was talking to his girlfriend. Like, somebody's beating up my door saying the police is here. So I don't know why he grabbed his gun and went to the door.
Bryan:So that that's what I'm saying.
Mac:All these questions was covered up.
Bryan:So Right.
Mac:That's why Alright, Gina. How about yourself? No words? Tay, you got anything?
Tay:Yeah. So I originally saw the photo of this young man, appear on my Facebook, and I didn't really look into it. I was just like, okay. Well, I don't really know what happened. It didn't say it, like, in the Facebook post as to, like, what happened.
Tay:So I didn't initially look, and that's like a foul on me, because another airman down as somebody who's currently still, in is it's rough, like and I should look. So, you know, Mac over here, he told us about, like, how he was feeling a little bit, over a messenger, and that's when I originally did my search and did all of the research. And I just I was shocked. I also saw the body cam footage, and I I was angry because I was just like, this guy didn't have his gun pointed. Like, he was just like, maybe he was scared because he's 23 years old.
Tay:Like, he doesn't know any better. Like, he legally owns a gun and, like, why wouldn't you wanna protect yourself? Didn't look like he was, like, in a gated community or whatever. So, like, maybe he just felt like, okay, there's, like, loud banging and I don't know what's going on. So I'm just gonna grab my gun, but I'm not pointing it.
Tay:So I don't understand how, the police are or the the deputy that was there saying that this is self defense because he wasn't pointing the gun. Like, I don't understand as to why this had to happen and at what point in time are we gonna say that police need extra training for being more tactful, you know? Like in the military, you have the law of armed conflict, or LOAC as we call it. So, like, we get all of this training and, like, can you imagine if this happened while he was, like, you know, overseas or or whatever? Like, if this police officer did this, like, over there and wasn't a police officer, but in the military, like, I don't know.
Tay:I, like, my husband, AD, and I have had a lot of conversations since then, and we saw the, like I said, the the footage. And, we're like, okay. Well, he did announce that he was police, but, like, anybody can bang on your door and say that they're police. If you can't see out your people, like, that it's an actual police officer, of course, you're not gonna be like, okay. Well, it's just police.
Tay:Like, that's ignorance. So, I just yeah. Yeah. Those that was my thoughts and feelings.
Mac:Yeah. Like, it was it it kinda, you know, it kinda just marinated through the day. Right? Like, when I first heard about it, I'm going into work. You know?
Mac:People are like, I see a couple articles, but I'm on the way into work and where I work at, you know, you can barely get on, you know, Internet to do what you need to do and all this other stuff, so, and then I was busy, had a graduation. So it was like a a busy day yesterday, but, you know, as I'm working, a few airmen come in and they, you know, they wanna talk about certain situations, and, you know, it's a it's a small unit compared to what we're kinda used to. You know, we only got a a 113 people, 119 with with, our our civilian contractors and stuff, but, you know, so I mean it's, you know, we we have, you know, the the airmen who are, you know, for lack of better, you know, the the black airmen, you know, once I got there, they're like, oh, shit. You know you know, our first sergeant's here, you know, black dude, you know, he he can relate to kinda the things that we've been going through. And when we first got there, because the commander, the the chief, and myself, Raw, knew, We we got there kinda around the same time, like, late summer, early fall.
Mac:So the the Diox, which is just like a a climate assessment kinda having the unit talk about their experience, and it it was a lot of lot of red flags, lot of stuff that DI and a need to to get involved with and stuff, diversity, inclusion, things like that. So kind of in a sense breaking up the the good old boys club that was there, then now we're trying to bring in something new. Right? But, it wasn't until these airmen started coming in and and mentioning it. Right?
Mac:It's like, have you heard about, you know, the airmen at at Hurlburt That that guy. I'm just like, no. I mean, like, I saw it, but, what all happened? You know? And they're all telling me, and they're giving their their their thoughts.
Mac:And, you know, the the weird part is. Right? Like, now that I know, like, they were telling it, but as they're telling it, I'm just like, bro, who in the like, I know officers do some off the wall stuff, but I'm just like and that's it? Like, there's no other side to the story? Like so then then, you know, you go see it, and and you and you and you you Like, what what can I tell like, what can I tell the airman?
Mac:You know? They're like, sergeant McCoy, this happened. You know, I even looked it up. Like, they're doing research. Like, he's in Florida.
Mac:He's illegally allowed to carry that. He's in the thing. Like, yeah, he announced his presence, but if he's just going to check on a domestic disturbance, did he need to knock that aggressively, yell that aggressively? Like, any person at that point would be, like, you know, with the I don't wanna say the reputation of law enforcement nowadays, but somebody knocking like that, yelling sheriff's office open the door that aggressively. You're in your your own house, your own, you know, you're allowed to have the gun.
Mac:Florida law, you can have it. The gun was pointed down. And, like, I don't want people to think that they're not well trained, amazing law enforcement officers out there, but and I know at any moment, like, life and death situation can happen there, but like I said, I'm not a cop. Like, there was no verbal warning at that point. Put the like, the warning came after the the 6 shots.
Mac:Like, hey. Put the gun down. Then if I can understand if, hey. Put the gun away, put the gun down, and then you see the gun get raised, 100%. You know?
Mac:Do what you gotta do because you gotta make it back to your family, but my man had the gun pointed down. Not up. He wasn't trying to aim or anything. Six shots, then put the gun down. You can tell it was the the adrenaline for him to be able to respond, to be coherent at that point to respond and say that I don't have it.
Mac:The gun's over there. And and, like, if you continue to listen, you you hear the audio. You know, hey. I need you know, he tries to call medical. The fact that he doesn't start doing, life like, that's the part that that's the part that gets me.
Mac:Right? Like, cool. You you claim to have neutralized the threat or whatever. Are they not trained to start, like, doing any kind of CPR, any kind of care, any kind of anything while medical is on the way? You know?
Mac:Past you. Though that part, you could hear when other people come up, they're counting the wounds. Yes. 6. I see an exit wound here.
Mac:Oh, yeah. He shot up. Like, things like that. On top of that.
Bryan:And it made it sound like he was insistent to the situation.
Mac:Yeah. On top of that, this is the same, you know it it it's starting to be a trend. It's the same police department, the same Okaloosa. Like, you remember when they shot up the the other person because the acorn fell, when they thought the acorn was a gunshot. And I'm just like, what is you didn't hear about that?
Mac:Acorn fell. Yeah. Acorn fell hit something. This dude was like, it sounded like a gunshot. So he he shot an innocent.
Mac:You know what I'm saying? I'm just like, I don't know. But now now it's like, you know, it's it's one of those situations where back in the day, Airman would be like, you know, what if they just come up like, bro, chill. Like, you know, you you in the service. Police, you know, police and and service members, like, we cool.
Mac:They they respect us. We, you know, all that other stuff. And then this happens. Granted, he didn't show up to the door in a uniform and he shot him or anything like that. But, like, I I I just don't I just don't know at this point, like, what what to tell people.
Mac:Like, you know, they'd be like, you know, before you deploy, get your will, power of attorney, and everything in order because, you know, x y z may happen to you, but you're at home. You bro, imagine getting off work and and turn it on to PlayStation. You're about to play games with your boys, and then boom, boom, boom, knock, knock. You know what I'm saying? And then, like, you don't come back.
Mac:You know? You just finished working. Long ass day. You're like, man. I can't fucking wait to play.
Mac:It it's the stupid shit like that happens. I know they're doing their investigation. That's cool. I I would like to hear from the woman who was just like, there's something going on in there, a loud slap. I heard screaming.
Mac:I heard yelling. Like, again, it's an apartment, and I don't know if you remember that that area.
Bryan:Lingo. We're we're not you know, we don't hear about what the original call was. We're only hearing about this. We're not hearing anything about, oh, this will happen. This is why we were called because, you know Yeah.
Bryan:Now we're just worried about, you know, who came in, somebody got shot. And, okay, he got shot then. What happened? Why why why were you over there? What was that situation?
Mac:Right. Because the thing they're trying to argue is they're saying they showed up at the wrong department, which if that's the case, well, that that's that's
Bryan:I mean, that that's the issue. That's the that's the issue right here. Wrong wrong apartment. Guys got shot. Yeah.
Bryan:Yeah.
Mac:But the woman who called it in was like, there's a disturbance. I don't know if she get whatever. She's like, I heard a slap. I hear screaming. I hear in, like I don't know how good the audio is on the the the body cams that they should be picking this thing up.
Mac:Right?
Tay:Yeah. It
Mac:didn't sound like anything crazy was going on in there. If there was loud noise, bro, like, if the family say he's playing video games, I know if I'm playing, like, call of duty, like, back when, like, Halo when that was out. Bro, I was loud when I'm playing this shit, I don't know if it's because it was in an apartment complex and she's like, he's too loud over there, whatever, but, that's the stuff I wanna hear, like what was the initial call for, who reported it, I get it, She she has a right to protect herself because if her name gets out and is tied to this, everybody's gonna probably villainize her to be like, you said
Bryan:Yeah. That's her.
Mac:Yeah. Yeah.
Bryan:You know what
Mac:I'm saying? Oh, you said, oh, boy up. Yeah. And then now her life is crazy. Right?
Tay:Yeah.
Mac:Got Janae in the comments. This should never have happened. As soon as the door is open, it was 6 shots. How many times we've seen white folks with guns pointed up at cops they weren't shot.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Mac:There's no such thing as de escalation when it comes to cops and people of color. And that's kinda what the airmen were talking about because I mean, you know, you go on YouTube and you can search whatever. You know? Like, you see white people, like, legit slap cops, And the cops will be like, hey. Hey.
Mac:Hey. Hey. You know, like, you can
Bryan:go anywhere. I'm like, yo, what the hell? Like, why? Yeah.
Mac:Why do you want
Bryan:me to keep talking like that?
Mac:Yeah. Cussing them out, spitting in their faces. Cops are just like, hey. Calm down.
Bryan:Calm down. Being off of me. Like, some people be on top of me. Like, shut up.
Mac:Scott be coming down and everything. But it's and I don't I don't know, I mean, like I said, we we're all serving or have served. How do you feel about how the the Department of Defense in higher headquarters and all that are just kinda standing by. Like, I get it. Like, you just can't I mean overreacting martial law stuff, but go ahead.
Bryan:I think that, whoever unit he's with or, you know, what's going on down there at that base, they're keeping quiet. They're trying to let they're they're letting them handle that situation. They're the ones that put themselves in that situation. So as far as them speaking out saying, hey. You killed one of our troops.
Bryan:This, that, whatever. Yes. That's probably there. They wanna say that whoever's in charge. I don't know who's in charge of that case.
Bryan:I don't know the demand. But they have to follow the protocol. Alright. Yes. That happened outside of our baseline, whatever.
Bryan:That's out of town. Yeah. So you guys do your investigations, whatever, give it back to us, and then they will say what we need to say. That's how I'm gonna and that's happening. But as far as, you know, trying to pick sides, no.
Bryan:That that's not gonna happen right now. They gotta wait until an investigate investigation happens for them to speak how they feel about it, I guess. That makes sense.
Mac:Yeah. We have AD saying, the officer, unfortunately, is in a position to be at risk. That's one of the things where and, Jim, when you I know, like, you know, when when you're when you're ready to talk, just let me know, and and I'll let you talk. Okay. It's one of those things where, like, when you become a police officer, just like when you you join the military, it's like you accept the risk that at any moment, the nation can call you and you could be in a position to where your life is in danger to, you know, either get the the higher headquarters objectives complete, all of that stuff, whatever your nation needs you to do.
Mac:Same thing with Plea, like, to serve and protect. Right? There's bad people out there. When you apply to be a police officer, I'm assuming that you know that there are risks involved. Right?
Mac:Every day you put the uniform on and leave the house, like, there's a chance you're just like, bro, this may or may not, but you depend on that training. Mhmm.
Bryan:And I I wanna work up instead too, but go ahead.
Mac:No. Of course, at at all times, you have the right the the inherent right to self defense. Right. That goes for military too. So, like you were saying earlier, Tay, like, if you're outside the wire, Afghanistan, whatever, Well, what's the movie?
Mac:What is the movie? I think it was American Sniper when, there was a kid walking towards the platoon, and then, Bradley Cooper was playing the sniper.
Tay:Yeah.
Mac:Right? Somebody was just like, hey. I think that kid has a ID on him or whatever. Right? You gotta kill that kid.
Mac:And the dude's like, what? Like, you you know, like, you either do or you don't. Like, if you shoot that kid and he doesn't have a bomb on him, like, there there's there's a process for that. Right? There's a trial after investigation that goes so, like, once the action is done, there's an investigation, and that's supposedly what's going on now with with this deputy.
Mac:Right? The thing is with with officers usually given immunity and all this other stuff, like, people are starting to feel like when they are found to be at fault, the and that it may be because of emotions. They feel like the the punishment doesn't fit the crime. Like, officers are usually let off, you know, easier. And I feel a lot of that is because the city has to end up paying money, and the city is just like, bro, we don't have the money to be doing this and and and all of this other crazy stuff.
Mac:Right? So I know you're about to say something, Brian. What were you about to say?
Bryan:I'd love to say that the the the use of force thing. Like I said, when when I got out the military, well, my job in the military, 6 years marines, 4 years air force. I was logistics. Mhmm. You know, supply mayor, but make sure everybody have what they had, whatever, and stuff like that.
Bryan:But when I got out of the military, you know, my, my, what is it? Security clearance was
Mac:was on
Bryan:secret. So when I moved here to Northern Virginia, I was like, woah. Trying for jobs to, you know, for my logistics background and stuff like that. But they wanted, like, at least a top, top secret security levers, security, level could work where I wanted to work at. And Right.
Bryan:That's where the money is. The higher your security level is, the higher, you know, more money you'll make. So I started working security. 1st job I worked was TSA at Ronald Reagan. You know, checking bags and screening, x-ray, all that.
Bryan:You know, it's cool and all that. But that didn't work out because, man, out of
Mac:it, things didn't work out.
Bryan:So I started working, regular security, as on our on unarmed, security officer. And, you know, you start seeing things. You you get into conflicts and stuff like that. And me being an unarmed, you know, security officer, you kinda gotta learn how to deescalate the situation without having a firearm on your side and or handcuffs or
Mac:Right.
Bryan:Whatever it was. But when I went into armed security, which pays a little bit more money, but, you know, not that much, but, you know, you have a little bit more, police authority. You're not a policeman, but you have a little bit more authority as a police officer with, as being armed and stuff. You have to go through training, to learn when you can put handcuffs on somebody and when you can use certain force on people and stuff like that. By me saying that, the force that the guy used at that door was
Mac:Not the force.
Bryan:He was he was He was scared. He saw a gun.
Jenn:Mhmm.
Bryan:And the first reaction in his mind was boom. Boom. Boom. Boom. Alright.
Bryan:I've been scared of situation as armed security officer. Alright? Because my first gig as an armed security officer was a apartment complex in Woodbridge, Virginia, which was considered, you know, the hood or whatnot. And I understand why they want you to be on because at first, I was like, why you gotta go to why I gotta be armed to go there? If I went there,
Mac:I was like, okay.
Bryan:I see why. You know? Yeah. It's it's Mhmm. Bunch of, you know, craziness going on, drugs, this, that, whatever.
Bryan:But it's your demeanor, man. It's how you is because people look at you. You're not even a police officer. You're just a carrier. They just see a little badge, and they see you got a gun in here and the handcuffs.
Bryan:They think you're like, oh, you over here trying to control us. Like, no. I'm not. I'm just here because they hired me to be here. This debt.
Bryan:Whatever. You know, you talk to people. You gotta have a reputation with people. And they call it, what do you call it? Verbal judo.
Bryan:Deescalate a situation.
Mac:Yeah.
Bryan:I'm saying? I see people out there smoking weed. They ain't supposed to be smoking weed in this in the area. I'll be like, hey, man. Come on, man.
Mac:You know? Yeah. Yeah.
Bryan:You wanna smoke your weed, whatever. You know? You gotta come down to that level and just talk to them like that, and they'd be like, alright. He's cool. Yeah.
Bryan:He's right. We ain't supposed to be here. Move on. That's how you do it.
Mac:Right. But, you
Bryan:know, you got some people out there like, oh, I'm I'm the law. Do you see this gun on my hip? You know, That's the good thing to do. It's scary people that never been in situations like that. That's the first reaction to go to is the gun.
Mac:You try to establish authority immediately.
Tay:And dominance. Yeah.
Mac:Dominance. That's the word. Yeah.
Bryan:That's what it is, though. It is like that's that's not me. I'm sorry, dude. Anything I do if I have to pull this gun out of my holster, I'm going to court about something. And I gotta why did you pull that gun out of your holster?
Tay:Right.
Bryan:That's gonna be the first question I get asked if I haven't been in court in a situation where my gun has to be used or something.
Mac:Why did you draw your firearm? Yeah.
Bryan:Thank you. And same thing with police officers, you know, deputies, whatever, city cops, county cops, state police, whatever. Your gun came out your holster. It got used. Why was it used?
Bryan:Okay. This is the scenario that we're at now. Why was your host why was your firearm used? He can say, oh, I answered the door. I saw a firearm.
Bryan:But looking at their body cam, I'm just going off of me looking at that body cam. The gun was down. Yeah. It wasn't pointed. He didn't there was no motion of him doing anything.
Bryan:No. It was just boom. Boom. Boom. Boom.
Bryan:Boom. Put the gun down. I was like, dude, you shoot first, ask question later.
Mac:That's that's Yeah. That's not how that works, bro.
Bryan:It was like, So, yes, it's a it's a use of force level. Basically, that's what I was trying to say first. I I just got out of context.
Mac:Yeah. We hear
Jenn:you.
Bryan:It's a use of force. But in that situation, he saw the gun, he got scared, and that's what's his initial reaction. That's what he did.
Jenn:No. I can't tell you how many freaking videos I've watched of cops, like body cams, like, dealing with, like, Karen's. I don't know why I subjected myself to that, but I did. But you you see them, and I don't know how many chances they give them to roll the window down or I'm gonna break it. Roll the window down or I'm gonna break it.
Jenn:Exit the car or I'm gonna tase you. Exit the car or I'm gonna pull you out. And do you know what I mean? They give. Yeah.
Jenn:I mean and I hate to say it. A lot of white people way more chances is what I saw than, you know, than what they gave him.
Mac:Yeah. So I'm, like, I'm, I'm drawn to think, and this, this goes back to, to, I feel like, and and Brian, you're a 100% on board when I when I was just like, you know, you think the DOD should do should be a little bit more vocal, you know, like leaning on on congress to be like you know what I'm saying? Like, some some like, I agree that Florida has its own, like, every state's their own thing, but there's a governor, there's a representative, there's a senator where they can talk to to and and make some changes, but the the soldier from Fort Hood, Vanessa Guillen, when they, like, found her in a trunk encased in submit out in the the the the boonies and all that, and, you know, the press gets a hold of that. And here comes, you know, congress and civilians and and and the American public. There needs to be changes.
Mac:There needs to be changes. I don't feel safe sending my my my kids into the military with all that and and, you know, a 100% correct. Like, leadership needed to change that that whole chain of command and everything, that all needed to change.
Tay:Right.
Mac:Shu's on the other foot, now it's the civilian side coming in and attacking us. Should should bro, Like, you you you keep preaching. We're a team. We're watching out for each other, and I 100% believe that, the military is doing what it can to support the the family of, of of, you know, airmen airmen, Fortsen. But, bro, like, I've There's only so many people As yeah.
Mac:And and and that's what hurts. Like, bro, y'all y'all got some people up there that can talk to some people that that that can possibly start making some stuff happen because I don't know how many times poor training or or or their recruitment process, you're not getting the right people to do the job of protecting and serving. You're getting these scary people that just they probably say all the right things during the interviews and through training, and then when they're actually out there on their own on the job, you know.
Tay:It should be like a reevaluation process. Like, it shouldn't just be like a one and done. You're good. You know? That's just, like, my thoughts.
Mac:And and what's up, Alex? Yeah. I mean, that's kinda what I'm hung up on. Like and that's the part that was that was really eating at me yesterday. You know?
Mac:Where I was just like, I wanna go live and I wanna talk about I wanna share my my raw feelings, but I didn't wanna say anything that would, like, get me in get me hemmed up or anything because I was feeling a certain way because I'll be we're sitting here, like like, Jin, you know it. When we when we deployed to Iraq, like, it was, like you had to we had to be a team, we had to look out for one another. Like, it was Absolutely. It was it was 100% realized, you know, when when we when when Griff was lost. You know?
Mac:And then we go out there, and people are just hanging out in their tents and and and, you know, using the the shower tint thinking like, hey. I'm a just shower gold, and then a mortar hits the the fuel tank, and then, like, tents are on fire and it's a blaze. You know? Like, shit was real out there. You you have to hey.
Mac:This is my brother. This is my sister. I got your back. This happens, and, like, it's on a national stage by a police department that was recently in the news for shooting an unarmed person because an acorn fell on a car and made a loud noise that they thought was it. Like, first of all, what training are you getting where the gunshots in your your training sound like acorns hitting models?
Mac:Like acorns. Or second, how far did that acorn fall off that tree to where when it hit the car, it simulated an actual gunshot sound? Like At least
Jenn:50 feet,
Mac:at least. I mean,
Bryan:it's it's I mean, I'm not I'm not justifying, you know, with Stephanie's actions, what he did or being in debt. But being armed, you know what I'm saying? It's it's just like you said, we get the the the gun on your hip, whatever, and you're thinking that, you know, they see the gun and go listen to me, whatever. Or, you know, like the police officer, you never know what type of neighborhood he's working in. And that's when it comes to you've gotta know the community that you're working in.
Bryan:You know what I'm saying? If you go to the community thinking, like, everybody's just, you know, bangers and they quick to pull pistols. And it just comes back to what I was just saying. Like, you gotta use that verbal judo, man. You know, let's deescalate the situation before the situation even happens.
Jenn:He did. You know
Bryan:what I'm saying? Show that you're not a president of threat. Show that you're president. Yeah. I'm I'm really just here to protect people and stuff like that.
Tay:Yeah.
Bryan:You know?
Tay:I mean, like, the show cops, like, not that it's, like, anything to, like, really, like, talk about. But, the show cops, you know, there's multiple times where you see policemen, like, go and go to, like, a public like a like a verbal or not, an assault. Right? Or or, like, domestic abuse, is the word I'm looking for. So you see that, like, a lot, in cops.
Tay:And, like, at no point in time are they actually, like, actually pulling their gun out. Like, they deescalate the situation. So, just like so that was then. That's, like, 10 years ago. Right?
Tay:It's the last time, like, COPS was on because they have, like, live PD now or whatever. But, clearly, like, you should be able to deescalate a situation. And at no point in time should somebody just open the door and expect to get shot 6 times. Like, that's not
Jenn:Right. That's the firearm.
Bryan:That's the last thing on the bottom of the list from use of force.
Mac:Last resort. Alright.
Tay:Right.
Bryan:When I was security when I was armed security, the only time I'm gonna touch that weapon is if I'm in danger or if somebody else is around is in danger, and I need to use that to stop the person whoever's doing in danger to stop hurting everybody else. That's the only time that thing should come out. That's the last resort.
Jenn:That's that's the reason why they give officers pepper spray. That's why they give them the, what do they call it? Lethal. The bolo bolo? The what?
Tay:They have batons sometimes too.
Jenn:They have this, device that can shoot at them that wraps around their legs to trip them up. Oh. They have tasers. They have lots of other non lethal methods. And the fact that he went straight to a lethal method, not only did he shoot him 6 times, but it was in the chest is is what is fucking terrible.
Jenn:It's like you didn't even, like, shoot him to, like, just make
Tay:him not a threat.
Jenn:Yeah. You didn't even try yeah. You didn't even just try to stop him.
Jenn:You you're like, he shot him
Jenn:to, like, end his life. So you're telling me the officer didn't have pepper spray. He didn't have a fucking taser. He didn't have any other way to use non lethal force.
Tay:But he had his voice to just tell him to drop the weapon before he shot.
Jenn:He had the gun down and his hand up. If you look at the body, I know Kaley told me that. The body. I'm sure.
Bryan:Look, man. I had the gun too. Right.
Jenn:Yeah. The guy his his gun wasn't even up. That's the thing.
Mac:Like, I would say
Jenn:and and, you know, to be honestly,
Mac:the
Jenn:the reason why this upsets me so much is because I used to live there. Like, Willie used to live there. Like, I live there. Mhmm. Coley used to live above me.
Jenn:You know? We were we were stationed in Eglin. Like, I I can't tell you how many times I've been on the Hulbert.
Jenn:That's why, like, that's another reason that it bothers me so much. You know? I used to live there. Like, Kohli literally lived above me, and I used to make fun of him because I used to listen to him play Halo. And he used to get fucking pissed, and I used to laugh at him the next day.
Jenn:You know? I mean, it's, I mean, this is, like, my stomping grounds. You know? As soon as it says that, Okaloosa County, I was like, are you fucking kidding me? Mhmm.
Jenn:I can't tell you how many times I've been on
Bryan:Hurlburt, like, b
Jenn:x. And and, you know, been in fucking Shalimar and and Niceville. And I lived in Fort Walton. Yeah. In Crestview.
Jenn:You know? Like, I know where this kid is. I'm like, you're telling me it's not fucking safe? Like, are you serious?
Mac:That's the
Jenn:Like And
Mac:and that's now the that's now the public perception, right?
Jenn:Yeah. Do you
Mac:not think the the supervisors, 1st sergeants and commanders who have people living in an apartment complex, they'll have people coming to them like, yo. What the
Jenn:Like, I mean hell
Mac:is going on out here?
Jenn:Yeah. Like, the the reason why it upsets me so much is, like, I don't know what I'm gonna do if I came to work and they told me if I was in the airman ready room that something happened to one of my friends. Like, that's the only thing I could think about, like, yesterday and today. Mhmm. Like, oh, hey.
Jenn:You know, McCoy, he got shot. Why? Because he answered his door. That's why he got shot. And that's why it upsets me so much.
Mac:Sorry. Right.
Tay:No. You're fine.
Mac:No? I mean, and and that's kinda where my mind was at yesterday. It's like
Jenn:Yeah. You do.
Mac:It's happened.
Jenn:You know?
Mac:Like, it's like, the threat is not supposed to be in Garrison.
Jenn:Yeah. Exactly. Oh, god. 100%.
Mac:That's that's the part. Like, like, I get it. Crime will happen. God forbid, you know, if it wouldn't have made it any better. No.
Mac:Uh-uh a criminal breaks into his house and and, you know, there's a there's a scuffle, a battle, and and and that's the reason, you know, he passes. My heart would still be just as hurt, and I'd be looking for you know, y'all better find whoever did this. You know? That that was he was one of us. You know?
Mac:The part that hurts me is and this is this is any young person that passes. I'm just like, you just snuffed out any any potential this young man had.
Tay:Yeah. And he had From
Mac:what I've been hearing. He loved his job. He he he loved work. He loved the things he was doing, the people around him. Like,
Tay:who knows what he did?
Mac:Who knows what could have what he could have achieved.
Jenn:Did did you hear what his job did? I I looked and saw what his job was. Yeah. Yeah. He was a munitions loader for, spec
Mac:Eight gunships. Yeah.
Jenn:For a c 130. Yeah. Absolutely. I'm like, are you fucking kidding me?
Bryan:Stuff like that. I was like, okay. Yeah.
Jenn:And and I was like, an a c 130, like, oh my god. What a badass job.
Mac:Missions better. He's just and and he's just like, I love what I do, and and and I, and, it's it's, I'm looking at the comments. So Kately, shout out to Kately, first of all, man. Rest up and get better, man. I know you just had your, your procedure today.
Mac:Good people can make horrible mistakes. You can be a good person and not be qualified to do their job anymore. That cop shouldn't be anymore. 100% agree.
Tay:Yeah.
Mac:But I don't there is a, in in this was like, I forget the name, but there is a individual who was in Mesa, white dude, he was he was under the influence of something, unarmed. Cop is trying to give him verbal directions. Obviously, the person cannot comprehend, and and and I'll look it up and put the name, but dude is just, like, get on the ground, put your hands up, get on your knees, put them behind your back, walk forward. The dude is, like, obviously already under due, Florence, and so you're giving him fucking pro level Simon says directions. Right?
Mac:And when he doesn't follow him and the dude is just walking towards you like bro, I don't have any, you you shoot him, right? He's a white guy, right? White guy. Cop just gets, gets laid off, but he gets his pension still. So now he took his pension and stuff, and he flew, like, out of the country, and he's living, like, somewhere out of the country.
Mac:But that's his punishment. You just can't be a cop anymore. Gone. But this family's sitting here without their dad and their husband. You know?
Mac:Mhmm. I think that's the part. And and it's tricky, like, do we just capital punishment? Like, if a cop legit makes a mistake, you know, like, are we just taking his life in in it? But then because you can't do an eye for an eye, you can't do a life for a life.
Mac:Although like it it's to be vulnerable, like, when, and and Brian kind of talked about it, with Kim, like, when when I when I found out about my younger brother, right, I was just like they told me the situation and and and how it passed. Bro, it it it had to take whatever force in the universe to just, like, hold me in place. Because as I'm driving up to Fredericksburg to see my family, it's like, because because it happened in Richmond and I'm just like, do I just go to Richmond and just you know what I'm saying? Do do I just find and start asking questions and finding this dude, You know? And and and later for my mom to say, when was that Brian?
Mac:Like, he shows up to the house to to try to make peace and talk to my family. Like, no. You don't understand. It wasn't, bro. I was like kinda
Bryan:make why didn't you call me and tell me he was at the house? Because I had some questions I wanna ask him, but, yeah, he he came to the house.
Mac:Bro, like, it like, I I was gonna burn Richmond down, bro. Like, you took my brother from me. I can only imagine. If he was taken this way. Like the outrage I would have, it's in in their family.
Mac:They're they're doing the right thing. They're following policy and the legal they they're lawyered up so forth and so on. But as an enterprise, like, I know it varies by jurisdictions. Like, I don't understand how law enforcement, police, like they don't have like some kind of fucking meeting. Be like bro, it's not looking good for us out here.
Mac:Like, we we gotta we gotta we gotta figure out a fucking way to ensure we're we're things like this don't keep happening. Like, mistakes are gonna happen. Like, the let me tell you, ladies and gentlemen, the military is not fucking the the the fucking cookie cutter amazing group of of individuals. And I I could tell you that being in 20 plus years and then the one year of doing 1st sub, bro, the things I've dealt with, I'm just like, the military is bending over backwards to ensure you guys don't figure out that this shit is happening. And when it is put on blast like airmen n c o whatever page or air force times or like the thing at Fort Hood, bro.
Mac:Like, that's when we swoop in and and then it's like instant justice. People are getting fired, like, but behind the scenes, you don't know what's happening, but the publicly, you're just like, yeah. That dude's getting out of here.
Bryan:It depends on the liberal eyes. If
Mac:there's a
Bryan:lot of eyes on it, then, yeah, we gotta say something. No eyes on it, yeah, keep it in the house. Yeah. Yep.
Mac:But, ladies and gentlemen, this is this is all eyes. So now we're sitting here, like, the ball is in your court. Like, I will say that area is very pro military. Right? You got 3 bases right there, Tyndall, Eglin, Hobert.
Mac:Pensacola's down the street, and it like, that part is very support our troops, support our troops. I think Kaitlyn put it in the comments before, like, if he was to have answered the door in his uniform in having a gun, do you think gunshots would have been taken, or do you think it was the appearance of young black man, white t shirt, ripped jeans, coming to the door with the gun, now it's a threat?
Bryan:I mean, I wanna say that that that's a play in it. It is. You know? Because, I mean, it's it's I wanna say it's it's the way media puts people out like that. Alright?
Bryan:If you dress like how the media makes you to look, then that's how you're gonna look to certain types of law enforcement. I'm not trying to say all law enforcement looks at everybody the same way. Alright? I'm not I'm not gonna say that. I'm not gonna say law enforcement is bad.
Bryan:Me law enforcement. Look. I'm I'm on the board for law enforcement.
Jenn:Alright? Mhmm.
Bryan:Yeah. But not everybody needs to be in law enforcement.
Mac:Mhmm.
Bryan:Okay? Just like any job. Like the military. Dude, why are you here? Why who who recruited you?
Bryan:Why are you here? You know, same same thing with any job. You're gonna have some bad people in something messing something up. And I'm sorry. Go ahead.
Jenn:Brian, I don't mean to cut you off, but I kinda focused on what he was wearing. That shouldn't matter. I mean It shouldn't. It shouldn't. Because I mean, if you wanna take it so far as, you know, when women get raped, it's because of what they're wearing.
Jenn:So it shouldn't matter. It shouldn't matter what he was wearing. He was in his home, and from what I read, you know, someone was aggressively knocking on his door and he was scared, so he grabbed his gun. Dude, I would have a shotgun mounted to my door if it wasn't for my husband talking me out of it. Because I tell you what, if you knock aggressively at my door, I'm grabbing my fucking gun.
Mac:Right. You said So you're talking about not.
Bryan:He knocked and hit around in the corners. When he knocked gonna do it. Boom. Boom. Boom.
Jenn:Boom. Boom. Police, sheriff, whatever.
Bryan:You're like and and and and like you said, they were going for another disturbance.
Jenn:Yeah.
Bryan:And he's in his house. He's on the phone with his girl. You know, sudden somebody beat on his door. Yeah. He gonna dump.
Bryan:Like, yo, what's happening? But why
Mac:did he knock on my door like that?
Bryan:Girl. They talking to the girl, like, probably talking some bull stuff. Like, man, someone on the door knocking crazy, man. Let me
Mac:go get my gun. I don't know what happened.
Bryan:He probably did look out the peephole, but like you said in the video, the cop went. So he probably looked out like, I don't see nobody.
Mac:Yeah. Like, anybody can even say that.
Bryan:Yeah. Boom boom boom. Again, sheriff. He's like, just like you said, anybody can go to your door and be like, police. I mean, come on now.
Bryan:People are doing dumb stuff nowadays, man.
Tay:Right.
Jenn:Yeah. And and, I mean and I still go back to the body cam where he opens the door. He has one hand up and the other hand on a gun, but it's not held up. His gun is straight at his side. The barrel's pointed down, just like I'm sure he was trained to do that we were all trained to do in the military.
Jenn:You hold the barrel down. Right?
Tay:Yep. You must be wanting to take a shot. Your gun is always pointed down.
Jenn:And the first thing that that officer did was shoot him. He didn't say drop the gun or anything. He saw the gun. He shot him. I'm telling you right now, that's not the way police are trained.
Bryan:Nope. You told
Tay:him to stand by the train. As if he wasn't already, like,
Mac:I'm like back. 0.3 seconds later, you started shooting, like, bro, give me a chance. Your fucking directions, bro. Like
Jenn:I did drop it when you shot me.
Bryan:Did you see that? That's what I was thinking. He said, drop the gun. He's like, I don't even have it no more.
Mac:It's over there. Yeah.
Jenn:Yeah. I'm like I'm like, I'm like Can you
Mac:just You know, you didn't like, bro, you just shot me 6 times. If you still yell at like, I'm no longer a threat. Yeah.
Tay:You told him not
Mac:to move.
Tay:Like, the shot moves like early.
Jenn:Like like, he just got shot.
Mac:He's gonna move. Like, you shot me It hurts. I'm I'm fucking, you know, whatever. Neutral. I've whatever, bro.
Jenn:No. And
Mac:No life saving?
Jenn:No. And Kately brings up a good point. As how many cop videos have you watched? And I'm not here to roast police officers. I'm just looking at this specific one.
Jenn:But how many cop videos have you watched where they give the person a chance to comply. They give them several chances to comply. Yep. Now granted, I I I have heard stories of, you know, police officers knocking on front doors, and all of a sudden, somebody opens it and, like, blows them away. I I get that is is also a reality too, but that's not what this young man was doing.
Jenn:Right. Point blank.
Mac:And, John's comments, he said he hasn't watched the cam footage. The deputy didn't. After he shot him, he called for EMT to show up, and he told, the airman, hey. Hang in there. We got medical coming for you.
Mac:You know? Like
Bryan:And that's the thing, though. He didn't try to, like, any, like, CPR or anything to try
Mac:to Try to try to yeah. Or at
Tay:least, like, put pressure on the wounds. So
Mac:and I like, I I tried to and and this is like force a habit from from what, you know, the job was. It like, you try to peel back the onion, look at it from different aspects, try to see what the like, like, was was there anything that could have been done different? Like, bro, I get it. Door opens, right? First thing you're going there for and and and we've talked to security forces here as a first sergeant, you talk with them, you go through a exercise of, hey, you know, domestic disturbance, you know, you arrive there as the shirt security forces, or if you're being notified, like, you get there, the the defender is not going to, what is it, elevate the level of of whatever is going on.
Mac:Like deescalate. He's not gonna escalate it. So the banging on the door yelling like that, that's one thing they're not trained to do. They're not gonna do that because if tensions are already high on the inside, god forbid, one spouse is is is beating, like, once you hear boom, boom, boom, open the door, police, like, that may trigger that spouse to do more stupid stuff. Right?
Mac:Knock on the door. Hey. It's us. Hey. We just wanna check-in.
Mac:What's going you know, you don't hide because like you said, Brian, anybody could just bang on the door, like, boom, boom, boom, sheriff's office, hide, and then you're just supposed to trust list the cops. They got my best interest in mind. You open the door, and it's a home invasion or somebody stupid or trying to rob you. It's anything. And then in Florida, I think, somebody put it in there, the castle lot, like, castle doctrine.
Mac:Right? So no retreat. So anybody on your property, anybody stepping by your home, you got the right to defend yourself. So he
Tay:Yeah.
Mac:By all means, had rights to hold the gun. My second thing is he opens the door. The gun is down. You already have your gun up. You have the advantage.
Mac:Hey. Step back. Put your gun down without pulling the trigger. If you were really that scared, step back, put the gun. Like, there's so many different things I'm looking like.
Mac:Why didn't you do this? Why didn't you do that? Why didn't you do that? The first thing is just, bro, 6 shots? Like, bro, John Wick only takes 3, bro.
Mac:6? I mean, he takes 2. Well, he does, like, 2 to the by, like, John Wick stuff, pop pop pop. You know, he'd make sure. But ain't
Bryan:even gonna rule, so he only needs 2 shots.
Mac:Bro, it's it's it's create, like, 6 shots.
Tay:But you also saw on the body cam footage him going up to the door before he even aggressively knocks, just listening to hear anything going on in the apartment. You don't hear
Bryan:shit. That's another thing too. Because I have I ran into a situation where I heard a domestic dispute happening in an apartment one time.
Tay:You hear it?
Bryan:I did not knock on the door. I'm like, hey. Stop. I was like, first of all, I called the police because that that's my job. I'm the security officer.
Bryan:I'm not there to arrest or whatever. I'm there to report.
Mac:Yeah. They say
Bryan:what I gotta do. The only time I gotta put handcuffs on somebody is when the situation gets out of hand.
Mac:You know what I'm saying?
Jenn:That right there,
Bryan:I heard something going on. And what made me knock on the door after I called the police, because I heard the person say, put the knife down. That's when I beat on the door and said, open the door security. And that's when they opened the door and it went no, you know, guns drawn, nothing like that. You know?
Bryan:They were like, alright. Shit. Something happened. Because they expect because they they they knew they were doing wrong. Mhmm.
Bryan:So that's why they answered the door. But this guy that answered the door, nothing was happening. So that right there was unexpected to him. He didn't know, like, why the police knocking on my door? Door?
Bryan:If it is the police, he didn't know. He just know somebody's beating on his door. The people door that I knocked on Yeah. They were doing something. So that's why it's it's like I said, it's a scenario.
Jenn:Well, to to me, if he's sitting there listening at the door and granted, we can pick this to pieces all night. But if he's sitting there listening to the door and you don't hear anything, if you're really that nervous that you're coming in, like, bangs out, call for backup.
Bryan:Yeah.
Jenn:You don't hear anything. If you're that nervous and you have your weapon drawn, call for backup. I mean, there there's so many different ways that he that officer could have handled this situation, and it it's I I think it really comes down to, like, he didn't deescalate at all.
Bryan:No. He did.
Jenn:No? He he went he went for, like, max force.
Tay:He went from 0 to a100 real quick.
Mac:Yeah. Yeah.
Jenn:He did. I remember seeing in the
Mac:comments, somebody said that deputy had a history with shooting.
Jenn:Lauren said that.
Mac:And if that's the case, what are what are we doing? You're still gonna do the gun? You know, like bro, you and and you guys know, you've been in the military, bro. Somebody do something while, you know, with the weapon, something unsafe, something that that trigger any kind of thought that, hey, maybe giving them a weapon ain't the best thing in the world. Hey, bro.
Mac:You got a order to not be armed. You know what I'm saying? It's you. You can't. We're not giving you a gun.
Jenn:Oh. You know? Look what Melanie said. Our sheriff in Santa Rosa said right next to Okaloosa. So it went viral for telling homeowners to not worry about shooting intruders.
Jenn:That makes this job easier. Yep. I've heard you know, my my mom my mom used to be a deputy in, San Augustine, and she said that, the what what did her one of her training officers say? Dead men don't talk.
Mac:Yeah. Stop.
Tay:No. You can't even say that in court. Like, the the court, like, your your case will get appealed if, like, your person says that, like, oh, well, there is another side of the story, but they're not alive to tell it. Like, your case will get, like, turned over.
Jenn:But in this circumstance, he was FaceTiming his friend.
Bryan:And I think that's what's kinda saving the situation.
Jenn:So you do have the other side. Right. Absolutely. 100%. And she was he was still FaceTiming with her when he answered the door, and that's where you get his side of the story.
Jenn:Yeah. She heard everything. I know. That's that's the the inside scoop. Like, we have some of the military inside scoop, and through various people, we have the inside scoop from what, you know, our law enforcement has.
Jenn:It's not all of them are bad. I'm not saying everything's bad, but you have a few assholes out there that are part of the the proud boys and the good old club that or good old boys that, you know, they got in because of whatever reason. And
Bryan:No. I I agree with Jen. Like I said, I I I'm not knocking law enforcement. We need it in society.
Jenn:A 100%. Yeah.
Bryan:We need it.
Jenn:But And I'm respectful.
Bryan:There that will take advantage of their position of power.
Mac:Yeah. Yes, sir. And I will say those 2
Jenn:that ruined it.
Mac:To to John Moore's comment here as far as, do you think leadership and I think we talked about that earlier, and and Brian, you you kinda were were leaning towards it. Like, there there's policies and stuff in place. So anytime a major media event happens, that bassist PA will jump in and start giving directions and kind of like, kind of like a publicist for a celebrity, like damage control. Like, hey. Here.
Mac:This is what you say. This will keep us out of legal trouble and allow the process to work, right, and something this popular, like it's probably not coming from their base PA, it's probably coming from like Madgecomm, it's probably coming from Afsoc.
Jenn:Oh, 100%.
Mac:You know what I'm saying? Yeah. SOCOM is their PA is just like, bro, we're flying in and we're handling this. We'll we'll direct all questions to us. You know, the chief master sergeant of the air force put out a comment, like, 2 hours ago about it.
Mac:Like, the fact that it takes this
Jenn:long really? Yeah.
Mac:It takes this long for them to make a statement, let you know that they have been working with PA. They've been working with all their people to make sure they're putting out the politically correct statement at the time. Because I don't wanna here's what I'm I'm I wanna a 100% believe in my heart that everybody wearing a uniform is fucking pissed. Yeah. At a certain level.
Jenn:Yeah. And I'm wearing a uniform, I'm fucking pissed.
Mac:Like like, from the lowest ranking up to the highest ranking person, like, the joint like, chairman of joint chiefs. Like, colonel Brown better be in his office, like like, put me on the phone with Okaloosa right now. You know, and they gotta, hey, sir, you can't. Sir, sir, you can't. Let me I wanna believe that that's happening, and I get it.
Mac:You have to follow that, but at the same time, like, I'm hoping there are discussions behind closed doors as far as bro, like, if this is happening over here, cool. We're not letting our our our airmen stay in these apartment complex. We're we're we're up in BH. They're gonna stay up fucking Crestview. They're staying we're getting the fuck out of these these fucking Yeah.
Mac:These hood ass fucking apartments. And once money starts coming out of these people's pockets Yeah. Like, they're gonna start doing different shit. You know? They they're gonna rise up, and they're gonna go to these city council meetings.
Mac:Like, hey, because your dude came and shot, that airman in my apartment complex. I lost out on this many tenants.
Bryan:So what
Mac:are you guys gonna do about it? Like we like they gotta understand, it's it's not a it's not a right to have the military base there pumping money into your your local economy. Mhmm. It's a privilege. And when you start you start taking money from that city, be like, hey.
Mac:Yeah. Y'all can't live in these areas. Like, watch the like, you better up these people's BAH so they can stay in these nicer spots away from fucking racetrack because y'all know racetrack. Y'all y'all know that, Rob. Like, it's not the it was like the the off base dorms.
Mac:Like, the minute people got out the dorms, they're just like, let's all go to this apartment complex here, you know, and and it is what it is, but that's the shit that DOD needs to do is like, well, fuck y'all. We'll watch out for our own people if y'all ain't gonna y'all ain't gonna watch out for us. That's just my thoughts on it.
Jenn:Well and Melanie brought up a good point. Like, if I was in their chain of command, I would immediately get my airmen out of that complex. 100%. Yeah. And and, you know, just just to put it simply, you know, if you if you look at it, the you know, Roger Fortson, he was an senior airman in the military fighting for our freedom.
Jenn:Right? Because he joined your the military for
Mac:He deployed. Got a a decoration for
Jenn:Yeah.
Mac:Like Yeah. Supporting operations overseas.
Jenn:Yep. He fought for that officer's freedom. Think about it that way. He fought for his officer's freedom. Like, he he played in, you know, military like, he served in military campaigns and fought for the officers' freedom.
Jenn:Think about that. Let that let that ruminate. Like, that's what I was thinking about today. I was just like, wow. You know, he he fought for your freedom.
Jenn:See, man,
Mac:the air metal. Like, bro, that's like like, John, like first of all, John, are you officially retired yet? I know you clicked the button. Are you out out? Like, you have a beard and all that good stuff.
Jenn:Yeah.
Mac:So I I was stationed with a man, Tindall. Shout out to
Jenn:John. Like, if I met like, Willie, I don't know if if you remember when when we were deployed and we were in, I think it was when we were in, was it when we were in? It was when we were in, and I remember they're running a campaign. And, I was just getting off scope when the Spectres came in. So anybody who doesn't know what a Spectre is, it's an AC 130 gunship.
Jenn:That's the the big bitch that has the big 108. On it. Yeah. We call it the ghost. Other people call it specters.
Jenn:It has has many names. Very, very beloved, if you're in the military. And I remember getting off scope, and I was, I I was just going home because I finished my shift. And I remember hearing that boom.
Bryan:Boom. Boom. Boom.
Jenn:I was like and I remember the security forces. I was like, fuck, man. What is that? He's like, oh, he's like a specter. And I was like, it is?
Jenn:He's like, yeah. I was like, oh, shit. I was I was just a part of that mission. I was like, damn that. I'm like, I I had a hand in that.
Jenn:That's what he was doing.
Mac:Mhmm.
Jenn:He was doing those munitions. And if you guys don't know or anybody watching this, watch some of the YouTube videos about, these this crew that has how fast they have to replace these munitions. I mean, the the job is no joke.
Bryan:They got, like, 4 different type of, guns on shit.
Jenn:Yeah. Yeah.
Bryan:Low levels. You got the, like, yo, we're gonna do some damn cool building. You just wanna shoot people. We got yeah. You man.
Jenn:Look look how fast they load that shit. I mean, it is no joke. When you're a part of the flight crew of a Spectre, I mean, it is like I I would bow down to them. It's amazing what they do, and that's what this young man did. Yeah.
Jenn:I mean, it
Mac:just The crew the crew of gunships are probably the most down to earth coolest people. Like, I mean, it's it's there's a part of them that's like they know what they're doing is badass, but so, like, when we were, when we're downrange controlling them, the the gunships, like, the call sign was filth. Right? So when we would get on day shift, like, when we would get on day shift No. There's Listen.
Mac:We're getting off day shift, like, they're coming back from their mission to land and stuff. Right? Because they do all the the special ops stuff. So, like, they're calling in, they're checking in, and they're they're looking to get handed off to, to approach. And, you know, hey.
Mac:You're clear. Yep. Go ahead and, push, and you tell them the frequency and stuff. Alright. Have a good one, kingpin.
Mac:Stay filthy. And I'm just like, oh, that's so cool.
Bryan:Oh, that's so cool, bro.
Mac:Damn. You know? And, like, and, like, they want they're like aviation,
Bryan:man. It'll be like Yeah. Yeah.
Mac:Like, appreciate that, kingpin. Stay filthy. And I wanted to be like, I wanted to say
Bryan:Oh, you're slick man. Bring the right s d. Yeah. Alright. S d,
Mac:like, stay professional. Stay professional on the radios. We're not gonna have that.
Jenn:I'm like, hold on. No, dude.
Mac:Healthy, boy. I can't see.
Jenn:I tell you what. I wish, Tommy, you were here to back me up. So I remember when we were one of the gunships. And, and I told him, stand by because I had to clear an airspace. He's like, it's cool.
Jenn:I'm just here to blow shit up. He he said that on the radio.
Tay:That was like
Mac:Is that when we
Bryan:were using it?
Mac:The old school tape to record stuff? Yes. It's old school.
Jenn:We were there.
Mac:You were there when we were in Belan,
Jenn:and I I am.
Bryan:And that's
Jenn:how how cool, like, the gunship crew is. Like, they just I mean, they're total badass. I think those are, like, the a 10 pilots are, like, my favorite. They're just he has
Mac:to go
Jenn:on my trip. Those shit up. Oh my god.
Bryan:A 10 pilots. Alright.
Mac:This is
Bryan:I think they were they they're there for the troops, man.
Tay:They're a whole different
Jenn:yard. Absolutely.
Mac:That's why they're, like, when you know, this is all public. Like, congress is like, let's get rid of the a tens. They're they're dated. We got f 30 fives that can do this stuff. Right?
Mac:Bro, the army is just like, hey, yo, chill, bro. Like
Bryan:So we
Mac:we need to do.
Tay:Hey. 35 cannot do Hey. A 10 can do.
Bryan:Like, slow down the down boy.
Mac:Can it Yeah. Can it do this mission? Yes. But how long? The a 10 can loiter for a long time.
Mac:The the jet engines on a on a like, hey. Hey. I gotta go get some gas. I'll be right back. They'd be like, where are you going?
Mac:You know, the a 10 will be there. And then second, it's like a it's it's a visual thing. Like, enemies know the a 10. They see that gun. They see that thing coming.
Mac:They're like, this
Bryan:airplane's whole mission.
Mac:This airplane's whole mission is to kill us.
Jenn:Yeah. Exactly, Brian. That would
Tay:be Yo. You see it before those guns go off, and that is the most terrifying thing ever.
Mac:The number of times that, like, troops in contacts, like, when when we were doing Afghanistan have been just eliminated due to a show of presence. Like, they're just like, hey, we just wanna get down to about a 1000 feet, you know, hit hit a little strafe thing, dry strafe just to show a presence. And, like, we'd be like, alright. Cool. You got the airspace, and they would do it, and then the ticket just automatically can.
Mac:You know what I'm saying? Like, motherfuckers see the a 10 and be like, oh, yo. This shit is serious. Like, it
Jenn:ain't that.
Mac:Well, let's you know, let's get out of here. You know? So, I mean, all of that special forces, it is and there's one less member to do that now.
Jenn:Melanie.
Mac:Because because of this. And that's the shit that fucking sucks, man. Like, would I feel better if it, if it was like
Tay:a retired
Mac:vet, like, no, but a part of me is like, it's to to end somebody's life that young, who willingly raised his right hand to do something only 1% of the population is willing to do. Mhmm.
Bryan:And nowadays, it's hard to get people to join the military nowadays. Yes.
Jenn:Yeah.
Mac:Bro, the only the only branch that met recruiting goals last year was the marines.
Tay:That's wild.
Jenn:I'm smiling.
Bryan:Dude, what would they do with it? We'll give you a $1,000. Hey, bro.
Mac:Hey. Here's a Camaro, my boy. Get help
Bryan:me. I'm going to marines in 97. I'm like, what are they doing now?
Mac:Hey. You see that charger SRT? Hey. Sign for 6, boy. It's yours.
Mac:I don't know. But in the only bro, that blew my mind when I heard that. I was just like, bro, you lying. The marines? My brother brought back the, the DVD for a this is what we did in base boot camp.
Mac:I saw that. I was just like, air force it is, bro. Y'all had 2 MREs.
Bryan:Man. I know. When I was at boot camp, I was like, man, what the hell did I get myself into? I know.
Mac:13 more weeks, my boy.
Bryan:Oh, it's sweet.
Mac:Bro, I was done after 6 weeks. I'm like, bro, y'all ain't nothing to hear, man. Let me hurry and get out of here. And I'm looking like, y'all did 13 weeks. Y'all different.
Mac:I mean, y'all blues is lit, though. The dress blues
Tay:is Yeah.
Bryan:Yeah. The uniform. That's
Mac:fire. He said, yeah. The uniform type. That's probably how to get them in.
Jenn:Yeah. Hey.
Mac:Do you wanna wear this bus driver hat over here in the air force, or you want this shit?
Bryan:Well, John said in the comments. See, I I did the marines and I did the air force. Marines uniforms, yes,
Mac:they they tight.
Bryan:Air Force uniform. I mean, yeah, they're decent. But when I did, like, you know, put the blues on with the jacket, I was like,
Mac:look. You looked at yourself with a mirror?
Jenn:I'm like,
Bryan:I hope I never have to wear this till I get a ceremony or something.
Mac:You put it on, you think that you look good, then you step in front of the mirror like
Bryan:And then I'm reminded, like, I used to wear this. I look at the blues.
Mac:You're thinking you're going down the the aisle of, fucking United Pan Am or some shit.
Bryan:We got
Mac:coffee, soda.
Bryan:My plane. Like, that's alright.
Jenn:Coffee, Soda? Get the spice of soda.
Tay:Yeah. Put my blues on.
Mac:But,
Bryan:but one thing I will say, man, one team, one fight, man. That's what I learned.
Mac:Yeah. That's all it is. Bro, they bro, marines come in offering you cash off rip, bro. My last head, they came to offer this kid 10 k. 10 k right out of high school.
Mac:You thinking like, bro, that's it? No. You know?
Bryan:Well, you
Mac:I'm not gonna be
Bryan:at the NFL. Yeah. Signing bonus.
Mac:Yo, bro. That's how they got me. I came in for 4. They're just like, if you sign up for 6, we give you $5,000. What?
Mac:They didn't tell you it was taxed. So then after the taxes, you're like, man, I got 36100. That's 606100 more for every year of fucking bullshit that they put me into, but,
Jenn:you know
Mac:a lot of people like that.
Jenn:Not the to bring it down a somber tone, but, you know, you know, another thing about, Roger Fortson is that, you know, he's what got me too is that he's 23. Like, I'm old enough to be his mom.
Mac:Yeah. My son is 22, my oldest.
Jenn:Yeah. That's what I mean. Like
Mac:Bro. The Okaloosa, it'd be man on fire. I'd be down there like
Jenn:Yeah. I mean, his his mom
Mac:send him out.
Jenn:Like, the military, like, had to have something with his mom because, I mean, you could definitely feel what she was feeling because I watched a lot of the the newscasting with her. But I
Mac:mean, I
Jenn:mean, I I honestly I mean, I don't know what I would do. Like, I mean, just from, like, it being my my my friend's standpoint. Like, it was like, you or Kaley or Kel or Warren or Coley, like, any of my friends. I don't know what I do. But, I mean, my son?
Jenn:I don't I mean, I honestly, I don't know what I I think I would probably blackout and wake up a week later, and I'd somebody would have to tell me what I did. Mhmm.
Tay:That that is
Bryan:because I
Jenn:don't I don't know what I would do.
Bryan:That's that's very understandable on on your engine. I I do understand where you're coming from. Like I said, not to, you know, downplay the situation that we're talking about or take away.
Mac:But Sure.
Bryan:My brother when he passed, my mother, same way. Father, he was trying to be, you know, like, oh, yes. My father was hurt. Mother was devastated. You know?
Bryan:And I can't imagine how this young man's mother is feeling right now just before Mother's Day. You know what I'm saying? Oh. And so yes. Yes, Jen.
Bryan:You you you hit it on the head. You're right. You're right. I mean,
Jenn:I think, I don't I don't remember the exact situation, but I think there, there was a mother. You can see her in a TikTok where, it's in the middle of a courtroom and she stands up and I think this is where before they started, screening people for weapons and she stands up and she fires 6 or 7 shots into the man that took her daughter.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Jenn:I think that would probably be something similar to what I would do. You have you have
Bryan:What's that movie with Samuel Jackson?
Mac:Oh,
Bryan:Kill what is it?
Mac:Time to kill.
Bryan:Time to kill. Right. When he went into courtroom and yeah.
Jenn:Yeah. I mean, that's my child. Like, I I I can't even, like, wrap my brain around it. I think it's just so devastating. I mean, she called him her gift.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Jenn:I know. I think he was a gift to a lot of people and it and again, I think it hits harder for me because, you know, he he was one of us.
Mac:I could only imagine what that unit is going through, man. They just lost
Jenn:I can't even
Mac:my brother. And then
Jenn:Dude, what we meant
Mac:during the mission has to go. The mission has to continue and you survived with RiftPass. Yeah. You know, like, here's your your time to cry, but tomorrow we gotta get back to it. We out here in Iraq.
Mac:Like, we just can't not do our jobs. No. I mean, like, way you gotta try to
Bryan:And that's the thing, though. It it didn't happen in combat or or military related. It's some senseless bullshit. You know what I'm saying?
Mac:Yeah.
Jenn:And it's that's the thing. But I don't I don't know if it hurts any less. No. No. No.
Jenn:No. It doesn't it doesn't because failing. No. Yeah. I'm I'm not I'm not devaluing what you're saying, Brian.
Jenn:I'm just saying I'm like, I don't I don't know if, like, in Garrison are being deployed, like, if it hurts any less. You know what I mean? Because, like, even though Griff died while we were deployed, like, it it still hurts to this day.
Mac:Yeah. And without getting to, like, it when you look back at at what happened in in o three, like, it could have been avoided.
Jenn:It could have been. Yeah.
Mac:But but Stupid. People in charge had I don't know. They they were kinda trying to boost themselves and make it look like they did some epic that it wasn't even needed for. But No. Jedi is in the comments.
Mac:Shout out to to Jedi. He says no matter how this plays
Jenn:Jedi.
Mac:Be horrible. Yeah. And to be honest, his concern is that even this example, this in your face, all law enforcement needs training and accountability, fucking example, will be lost on those who are responsible to stop this shit and to address it in all ways it needs to be addressed. This man that was shot was our colleague, our brother, our son. And and that's kinda where it's at.
Mac:It's like, I'm I'm not too well versed on local political chain and who has the ability to do what for a certain jurisdiction, police department, so forth and so on. But, it's hard for me to sit back and look at the enterprise of law enforcement across this country and and believe that they're not trying to do what they can to save faith not save face, but, like, hey, man, this is a fucking trend that's going across the fucking country. Like our perception is this, What can we do to ensure that this like, other police departments, like, they look at this, hey. What do we do to not be like Okaloosa County? Like, what do we do?
Mac:Like, what does our training look like? Like, nobody is looking at this shit like, hey. Can we amp up our de escalation training? I think that's the biggest thing. Hey.
Mac:You're showing up to a a reported, like, it's not even confirmed. Like, some lady is just in the apartment complex, like, I'm hearing yelling and and I think I heard a slap over here. So now you're just going there fucking banging on the door 4:30 in the afternoon like it's a fucking drug raid. Yep. Open the door, ATF, like a DMX kid.
Mac:You know what I'm saying? Like, bro, just knock on the door, sheriff's department, you know, stand there so he can look through the peephole, and in his mind, he's probably thinking, man, sometimes they shoot through the thing if they see a police officer through the like bro, if you if you that scared, bro, there's other lines that work for you, bro.
Bryan:And that's what Jim was saying. Like, if you feel uncomfortable at that situation by yourself, call other people to come. Right.
Jenn:That's how I help you. And I think this is one of the situations where I would be comfortable with some sort of, like, robot taking over that human job because
Bryan:No. I don't need a robot taking over.
Jenn:Because I don't because the robot's not gonna look at the color of your skin. They're not gonna look at what you're wearing.
Mac:Right.
Jenn:They're not
Mac:do you
Jenn:know what I mean? They're not gonna look at that.
Tay:They're not gonna immediately pull out their gun and fire 6 times?
Jenn:No. It's gonna be unbiased. It's gonna be all all programming. You know? I mean
Mac:It just needs to be like like Robocop. Like, half movement.
Bryan:You know what I mean?
Jenn:You need Peter Weller in a in a robot costume.
Mac:Because he was just, like, the laws were, like, downloaded in his head, So he would have seen that and known, like, my life's not in danger yet. Like, you know, he's he's so black, you know, black and white on that. And and that's the problem when you get people because there's always the human factor, you know, the
Jenn:Yeah.
Mac:Like I said, like, going through the recruitment process, he's probably answering all the questions, giving them all the answers they wanna hear and everything, but who knows what his backstory is, what really traumatized him. Like, I don't know what kind of psyche values people are getting. I know when you start the process to become a first sergeant, man, the psyche value they do now, like, I'm looking at this thing, like, damn it. Am am I good enough
Bryan:to do this shit? Because
Mac:the questions they ask, I'm just like, you gotta answer truthfully. I'm just like, you know, because the things you the things you can see in here, like, you know, you show up to work, you know, it's brought to your attention by OSI that a member in your unit has been, producing and distributing child pornography of kids these ages and stuff is brought up to your commander, like what are you doing? And my role as the first sergeant is to advise my commander to, hey, Let's not jump to conclusions. Let's let the investigation go through. But, like, a part of the inside of me, I'm just like,
Jenn:burn them.
Mac:It's a human factor and you gotta remove yourself from the situation. You know, you show up to a domestic, thing and you you see the the the wife is on the ground holding the kids scratched up. The husband's sitting there. He also has bruises across his arm from, like, blocking. He's saying the bruises on his forearm was for blocking when she was swinging at him with the baseball bat x y and z, like, which one of the members are and and it's like they put you in situations like that where you gotta sit and think and try to be as objective and, hey, let's just separate you guys and and and instead of pointing the blame and stuff because, like, the general, you know, you know, the the the the lens that the public would look through is just like, as the man, you're probably the stronger of the 2.
Mac:It's probably your fault. We gotta get you know what I'm saying? So it's just a lot of questions they ask you to make you think about that. I don't know what law enforcement goes through. But I mean, when you're put in a situation where every day you go to work, they're giving you live ammo and a gun where you could potentially take somebody's life to save somebody else's life.
Mac:You gotta know you putting the the cream of the crop out there. You know, you gotta know that the people you are trusting And
Bryan:and and just Go ahead. Security company, the security company that I work with that, you know, we do armed security and stuff like that. I used to question the same thing when we went through, you know, gun training. You know? I mean, prior marine corps, you know, going through gun training and stuff like that.
Bryan:You know? I'm I know I'd appreciate the weapon, know how to safely handle a weapon, not muggle, do all this that. But the people that they'd be bringing on, like, oh, we're gonna throw you through gun training and we're going through, you know, the weapons training and everything. And I'm like, why is this guy here? It's like, some of the people I have to question.
Jenn:Yeah. What are you doing?
Bryan:Wait. Is this guy better to handle? Does he need to go through another 2 weeks of this, or are you going to just
Jenn:I don't think.
Bryan:You know, that's what I'm saying. It's like, you never know what goes on behind the scenes.
Mac:Maybe you're the paperwork guy. You know? Maybe maybe you're the paperwork guy. You know, like, you still get to pay. You know what I'm saying?
Mac:Like You
Tay:still get to pay.
Mac:Out there in the streets. You know?
Jenn:We Yeah. And, like, furthermore a little bit. You know? Yeah. Like, when, Eric went through his training to be a probation officer, I mean, every I mean, Jedi kinda touched on it in one of his comments.
Jenn:They're not unified. The state police go through their own training. Even the rangers go through their own training. The probation officers. I mean, everybody they all go through separate training.
Jenn:It's it's not unified. And, I think that was one of the things that, I'm not sure if I talked to you about it, Willie, but having a unified sort of police force because the jurisdictions are so vastly different, and then the training is so vastly different. I I can't say if one is superior to the other. Mhmm. But, but
Tay:there should be a baseline.
Jenn:I don't know if there is
Bryan:Tay Tay, you're right. Tay, it should be a baseline, but there is a baseline. Okay. Tay, you're right. There is a baseline.
Bryan:But because of this just like, Jen was saying, jurisdictions and, city, county, you know, how how you go and vote for different laws and stuff like that. Each legislation is different depending on the jurisdiction. So not all police officers can do the same thing everywhere within the same state or county or city or whatever. Yeah. So that that's where the conflict happens.
Jenn:And I I am although it kinda makes me sad in a way, but I'm happy in another way. Melanie says that she's in the bar. So this is actually where my in laws live, where I'll be visiting in, the summer that you can feel the tension in that community, which I'm kind of glad for that in a way. Because I'm glad that the community isn't okay with sweeping that when
Mac:they have those cities, those those meetings. You know?
Bryan:Mhmm.
Mac:Like, these they they can make their voices heard because these people are like, we want we wanna get reelected again.
Jenn:Well, I mean, look,
Bryan:we can't I think that's why the sheriff put out that that body cam. He said transparency. I appreciate him doing that. But is he doing it because he's honestly wanna be transparent, or he's just like, I wanna be sheriff again?
Mac:I mean, that thing was gonna get he was gonna be ordered to release that thing or he do it as Are
Bryan:you gonna and let me do it now so you get it out of the way. You know? He's just like, I don't know.
Jenn:You know and and if I were, a military service member that was there, another thing I would be looking at, which, I think Melanie also touched on, what about my family? If I'm gonna be facing deployment, is my family gonna be safe while I'm gone? Is my family gonna be safe in this apartment complex? Or is somebody gonna hear fucking weird noises from my my apartment? Maybe I'm listening to a movie too loud, and they're gonna call the cops on me.
Jenn:Do you know what I mean? Like
Mac:Or say your family isn't there. You get you got your kids.
Jenn:Yeah.
Mac:Mommy, what's all that? My mommy, what happened over there? Mhmm. You know? What do you what do you tell in your kids?
Mac:Do we feel now and then now are we cool? And shout out to Eric for for kinda breaking it down because he did law enforcement in Florida. He's saying that, there's no, what is it, a level of ordinance requirement. So there's no, there's no, I guess, restriction on the level of force you use to to deescalate a situation, I guess. Mhmm.
Mac:So, yeah, he said there's they're not required to use the lowest form of ordinance in Florida.
Jenn:And that's why I fire.
Mac:She said that's why I moved. That's why I can't live in Florida. Playing? Like like, I'm I'm I'm pretty sure it's not to the point where it's just like, you know why I pulled you over? I was doing 50 o pow.
Mac:But got rid of
Bryan:the So those lawyers out there just just doing a Yeah.
Mac:It's not it's not to that level, but if if the officer can fandangle away, I'm not saying they but, like, if somebody wanted to be a dirty cop and fandangle the way to be like, I I was in fear for my life, so that's why I shot him. You know? It's it's that. I mean, it's so many instances where people roll up on on people's homes. You got the incident that happened in in in Dallas where that officer was either super tired or drunk, went to the wrong apartment, opened the door, it was in the living room, and my man comes down the hall like, hey.
Mac:Who are you? And she shoots him. Right? She gets 5 years with the ability for probation or parole in 2a half. Right?
Mac:Amber Guyger, I think was her name. You know, shoots the black dude in his his own home. Like, he hears somebody coming to the apartment. He coming down the hall like
Bryan:no. That was her apartment or something.
Mac:That's what I'm saying. And then after after she shoots it, she's looking around like, oh, this ain't my living room. Oh, shit, I'm in the wrong house, and I killed somebody. Oops. You know, 5 years available for, you know, parole in 2a half.
Mac:Then there's the other one in Dallas where, who was it? I think he was showing up to do a wellness check, looked through the window, saw somebody through the window, claimed that they were doing some shit.
Bryan:No. They they were doing a drug bust or something, and that was the wrong house.
Mac:No. That was the one in, was it Kentucky, Louisville, or something like that? But that's the one where they, like, showed up to the house. It was shooting and like my man was shooting back at them and they're just like, oh, yeah. Yeah, because we heard somebody shooting
Bryan:at my house.
Mac:He was ready to get fired. That's why we went in there and killed him. Louisville. Yeah. That's it.
Mac:So I'm just like, bro, like, there's so many incidences where cops just bro, you make mistakes. I get it. Like, the warrant had the wrong address on it, whatever. You know, but, I mean, you just just g grand theft auto this shit. This isn't GTA, bro.
Mac:Like, you just can't shoot at people and expect them not to be like, oh, shit. Let me shoot back. Like, it's their right to defend themselves. And then when they're proven wrong, they're just like, first of all, the district attorney for that case, like, he he he let all the cops off the hook, I think. I gotta go back in.
Mac:But No. This is this is.
Jenn:Eric points it out. The fact that
Mac:That was her name that died in the shooting.
Jenn:Yeah. The fact that we're getting so many cases confused together is sad. There's so many, we can't even tell the difference.
Mac:Yeah.
Jenn:Now I will tell you that, again, I'm I go through my weird points and I watch cop videos. And there was a video where, a female cop was shot. A a white gentleman for whatever reason shot her, shot her hand. She still pursued him in her vehicle, and she was still composed enough that when he came out and he put his hands on top of his head, she didn't shoot him.
Bryan:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Jenn:She she was able to subdue him. Granted, I think she had, like, an MP 5 or, like, an, AR 15. She has some sort of, like, assault rifle. Mhmm. And and then she also, had to, his father showed up, and his father was just like,
Jenn:what the fuck do you do?
Jenn:But, anyways, the that that composure is there. I mean, I I don't know if I'm asking police officers to be superhuman whatnot in her circumstance, but I'm just like, there there has to be some sort of training. There has to be something. Like, there's something missing. Like, you can't just shoot some you you can't it's just like I try to tell my kids.
Jenn:You can't break a plate and say, sorry. That plate's gonna be broken forever. It's not gonna ever be fixed.
Mac:Mhmm. This part here. Right?
Bryan:I believe
Jenn:I hopped in there.
Mac:For those that those are like So our job, we're like we're like telling legit telling planes you're allowed to shoot and kill. Yeah. Shoot a missile and neutralize a threat. If the pilot ejects this cool and stuff Neutralize. But end of the day, we were following this ID matrix law of armed conflict.
Mac:We're looking at the scope, and we're just like they're like, declare this group. Yep. That group right there is hostile. Fox 3, bam, shoots that guy. They look and they're just like, man, you just shot down an airliner.
Mac:What happened? The controller right there, sergeant McCoy, told me it was hostile.
Tay:Now you gotta go pee in a cup. You gotta go poke tapes. You gotta
Mac:go do everything. Yeah. I was a little confused. I'm in jail. I'm in jail.
Jenn:He's really close to
Tay:the house.
Mac:This man opened the door. Hey, bro. Hey. I was scared. I I did what I had to do.
Mac:Again, that would be I guess, this incident would be like Sorry. This scenario would be more like if the pilot was sitting there looking and was asking for a declaration, and I was late to declare that group, whatever it was, and he was like, I don't feel safe. Law of armed conflict, he has the right to self defense, but when he lands and they they do that debrief back and they're looking like, why did you shoot this guy? Still, I bet he'll be like, well, sergeant McCoy was late with the declaration call, so x o. Why were you late with the call, sergeant McCoy?
Mac:Like, are we really throwing this on me or like that? That's the wild stuff out there. But, again, I think Eric was hit hit the head I mean, nail on the head. Jedi's in here. How many copies?
Mac:Because the one that keeps coming to mind is, it was up in, I think, in Minneapolis. Philando Castile, who got pulled over. Officer was just like, do you have a firearm and or, you know, asking them questions. His wife was in there. His kids were in the back seat, and he's just like, yeah, I do have a firearm here, it's registered, and, you know, the cop just, you know, was like pop, pop, pop in the car, right?
Mac:Wife there, kid in the back. It it it it's like when you see stuff like that, and then the investigation to the public eyes, like, cut and dry, like, that was unnecessary. Man told you upfront this is where the gun is at. It's registered. I got all this stuff, I'm a get, and then all of a sudden there's gunshots.
Mac:Right? Because the cop is scared. He doesn't think that he's actually gonna reach for license and registration. He hears there's a gun in the car, my man starts reaching, and he's just like, fear for my life, pop, pop, pop.
Jenn:So In front of wife
Mac:and kids, you know, it's things like that, they happen, and I think somebody put in the comments, like, time goes by and people kind of just, you know, forget. So And then something else happens, and then it causes us to remember the other events, and it's just like like, the cycle is just gonna keep continuing,
Jenn:or or is
Mac:there a legit change or something that has to happen?
Jenn:Like What
Bryan:were you gonna say, Jen? Because I I was about to agree on what Jen was saying earlier. Okay. Go
Mac:ahead, Jen. I'm sorry.
Bryan:No. When Jen was talking about robots and stuff, I was I was making I was laughing because I you know,
Mac:comically. Right.
Jenn:I do
Tay:understand where she's coming from.
Bryan:It's like because It's unbiased. Fear. It's a human factor. But go ahead, Jen. I'm sorry.
Jenn:Yeah. I mean, I granted, I I saw AD, a man. A lot of that has to do with, like, human programming, but I'm I'm hoping that the the people that programming them are, you know, dickheads, so to speak. I mean, I don't know about you guys, but, you know, I've I've been pulled over a few times. You know, a few times I've been the driver and then other times where I've had friends, I've been the driver.
Jenn:And I remember I got pulled over with a friend when we were, going to Colorado, and they were speeding. And I remember the the only thing the officer said I mean, anytime you get pulled over, like, I get nervous. Because I'm like, oh, shit. Like and I I mean, do you guys I'm always worried, like, I'm gonna I'm gonna get fucking in trouble or shot or some shit. Mhmm.
Jenn:That is still, like, a a valid concern of of mine. And, and I remember the first thing the the officer asked was, you know, are there any drugs in the car? And we were like, no. And you know, are there any weapons in the car? And and there were probably about 4 guns in the car between the the 3 of us.
Jenn:Mhmm. Now we we always follow the,
Mac:the state laws or whatever state you're yeah.
Jenn:Yeah. We we always follow the, like, the the there's the 3 step law. Like, I think all of the, you know, clips were, like, you know, in the glove compartment and everything. Well, like, we always try to follow the 3 step law at the very least. I agree, AD.
Jenn:We get we get nervous for very different reasons. And I don't I don't know if police officers, like, take that into account. Like, the people that you pull over are already nervous for whatever the reason may be. Mhmm. And it's it's it's it's never fun for anybody to to deal with law enforcement, so I don't think asserting dominance is really necessary.
Jenn:Like, that dominance is already there. But it's it's the the the way that they they handle the situation. Like, you've already fucking pulled me over. I get it. I did something wrong.
Jenn:Like, you don't like, you don't have to like, dude, I I'm telling you, like, watch some of these if you guys have not watched any of these videos of these officers pull pulling people over, and I'm telling you, the reason why a lot of these people get away with it is I don't know if it's just because of it being like a TikTok channel or a YouTube channel, but it it progresses way further than some of the things that you've you've seen that we've talked about that have end in tragedy.
Mac:Mhmm.
Jenn:You know? And I'm I'm sorry to say that a lot of the people that get away with a lot of shit are white. Yeah. They are.
Mac:When I was in the, when I was at the academy, we had a a guard dude who his full time job is is, Dallas police depart like, he he he's out there. And we were at lunch, and he's like, you know, when I do these things where, you know, we pull people over and the driver's nervous, so I I pick up on on small ticks that they're nervous or they're trying to hide something, he's like, a routine traffic stop. Like, my whole goal at that point is to figure out what is in his car. So I will, like, the things he was saying that he would do, I'm just like, bro, that's low key, like, in trap. Like like, is that cool?
Mac:Like, in your head when you're doing that, you have no absolute clue. That's that that's that verbal
Bryan:that's that verbal judo that they do. Yeah.
Mac:I mean, it's cool,
Jenn:but yeah. Don't wanna use that, dude.
Bryan:Find something to get something on that person.
Mac:Right. Yeah. Like, why are you like, and and like I said, this person first time get like, it could be somebody just got his license. Right? Like, just 18.
Mac:Hey. Got your license, driving by yourself the first time, pulled over, super nervous, like oh no, I'm in trouble, and now you're thinking like, oh man this dude's nervous, there must be something in his trunk, Can I look in your trunk? Can I search around? Can I do it? Can I you don't need to do that?
Mac:So If you have no probable cause for nothing, and then if you're a probable cause, like, yeah, that's it.
Bryan:Thank you,
Jenn:Eric. That's a gotcha attitude. That's that's the bullshit I'm talking about. How is that serving and protecting?
Mac:If the reason is speeding and you you you write the citation you need
Bryan:to do. Right? They're speeding.
Mac:You know, if
Bryan:you're speeding, That's why I stopped you. But hey. Why are
Mac:you speeding? Because you're trying to make a drug delivery? Who's in the back?
Bryan:But who's doing that?
Jenn:Why are you doing pickle 5 and a 54?
Mac:And just because and just because someone exercises their right with, you can't search my vehicle without a warrant. Wait for him to laugh. Like, no. I'm playing. But he was super serious.
Mac:The minute they tell me I can't search, oh, I know you're hiding something, or they're exercising their fucking right. And when they get about I'm trying to make it to the mall to get these fucking Kobes before they sell out.
Bryan:You over here is gonna
Mac:be a fucking hard time, officer. Yep. You know? Can I look in your trunk? Absolutely not.
Mac:Can I look in your trunk? Mhmm. Well, swapsies. Let me see what you got.
Jenn:You know, and and it's not just even, like, police, like, training. I mean, even in nursing, I'm I am trained to, like, deescalate, like, situations, and it's all about the words that you use and, like, the attitude that you have. Like, even if I I have family that's being, like, unnecessarily aggressive, I'm, like, one of the things that I'll use, I'm, like,
Mac:I'll
Jenn:tell the family. I'm like, you know what? I think we're not having really good communication right now. So we're gonna take a step back, and we're gonna reevaluate how we're communicating. Mhmm.
Jenn:And and, you know, I I almost feel like it's it's what I tell my my kids to do. Use your words.
Bryan:Yeah. Yeah.
Jenn:Use your words. You know? I don't know. It's so simple.
Mac:It is. You would think.
Bryan:I'm 46.
Jenn:You would think.
Bryan:I've I've been in so many confrontations where, you know, it was like, oh, you didn't fight because you're weak or this net, whatever. It's like, there's no need for fighting or as it's it's it's it's there's ways to go around things without any type of violence or anything like that. And law enforcement needs to understand that. And I'm not saying Don Ford doesn't understand it. There's just some people there that's they're just so quick to put their hand on the hip and pull out it.
Bryan:Look. Look at me. I got a gun. You have to listen to me. Look.
Bryan:I understand there are situations where you have to do a show of force. Yes. I do. But there's some situations where that's not needed. You know, it's just like Jen was saying, you get them good old boys that's inside the squad.
Bryan:And it's like, oh, they go back to the squad bay and, like, oh, man. You saw are you scared? None. And you saw what I did yet. You know?
Bryan:It it happened. They're there. They're inside it. They're in the system. It's it's I
Jenn:don't know. And there's like a difference between being proud of what you do, like having pride and being an egomaniac. Mhmm. And I and I think, there's there's times where people borderline on the egomaniac where they're like, you know, you do as I say. I have a gun, you know, a certain dominance.
Jenn:Like, you know, you you can see it a lot of times. And again, I'm going back to, like, a lot of the videos I've seen. Like, you know, there's serving and and protecting. There's there's a, it it it it's all about the words that you choose and the and the way you, like, assert yourself. Like, you don't have to to be that way.
Jenn:Mhmm. Because, you know, like, in those certain situation, like, it comes off as an egomaniac. Like, you didn't, you know, give him a chance. You just shot him.
Tay:Yeah. That's why you gotta train for, like, the lowest common denominator. Like
Jenn:Well, I agree with you, Tay. But even still, like, this this to me, this person shouldn't even be a police officer. Like, if you don't know how to basically, like, deescalate a situation or use non lethal force that I'm hoping I I know Eric Singh is the the level of ordinance, but I'm like, you don't have another method of, like, deescalating? You just got your gun?
Mac:If that's Florida, like, that's a state thing that goes across all jurisdictions, like so obviously, the state can do stuff enterprise wide for Florida. If this is not an example of, hey, we probably need to, like, get rid of that no level of ordinance and probably make a level of ordinance to where cops just can't go out there fucking, like, white earth and fuck it. You know what I'm saying? Like, Billy the kid out here just fucking Yeah. You know, root and tooting.
Mac:You can just go in the saloon and be like, I just fucking shot a bank robber and shit. Like, give me a beer. You know? Like, that's not how shit works around here, but, I don't I don't wanna pooh pooh it and and and make it, but, normally, we try to stay about this time for our episodes. We don't wanna go too long, but because I think a lot like, we just keep, I don't wanna say talking in circles.
Bryan:No. No. I mean, it it was a bad part about me. Everybody's perspective of it. Right.
Mac:You know
Bryan:what I'm seeing?
Mac:It it the bad part is, like, we come here and and we have thoughts and, like, we throw suggestions out there. Like, what what what can happen and things, but, like, we we can't make it happen. You know? And at the end of the day, like, we we could just, you know, just grieve and and and just try to say whatever positive vibes and and and just try to help everybody that we know, people close to us, like, you know, if if this is affecting them some type of way, just, you know, give them a a platform. Hey.
Mac:Hear you out. I'll share my thoughts. Share your thoughts. Empathize. Sympathize with them.
Mac:You know? Just don't write people off. But I I will say that that Thursday when, you know, I had 3 airmen come in there and and legit be worried because, like, you know, BAH ain't crazy out here. So we're staying you know, these airmen move out the dorms. They're staying in some pretty, like, not savory areas of of Hampton.
Mac:You know? So they're just like
Jenn:Right.
Mac:What's to stop this from from happening to me? Like, it it am I do I not bring my gun? Do I not do you know? Because I I have a weapon. It's legally and all that stuff, but now, like, I'm answering the door without my gun because I don't wanna get shot, but then it'd be a reason that I need my gun when I open the door and I don't have it because I'm fear you know?
Mac:And they're telling me all this stuff and I, like, as a shirt, I I I don't have a answer. Yeah. You know? Like, I'm telling them it's your right to have the gun when you open the door. But then Well,
Bryan:my my political question well, not political question, but my my my view like, if I was, like, in a, like you said, a shirt position or whatever
Mac:Yeah.
Bryan:I'll be like, why did you answer the door with a gun? You know what I'm saying? Did was that necessary or this and that? You don't know what this is like I said, you know, what neighborhood he's living in. You know what I mean?
Mac:What he's hearing and stuff like that.
Bryan:Like I said, he's 23. He's 23 year old kids, man. You know, he's on FaceTime with his girl or whatever. And he's probably, like, hearing this stuff, and he's talking to the girl and hearing the knock on the door and sheriff. He's like, man.
Bryan:I don't know. And the girl probably, like, man, it's probably somebody, you know, you don't know. And they'd be robbing people like that. So you know what? I need to go get my gun.
Bryan:You're right. Yeah. You know, go to the door. You know what I'm saying? It's it's
Mac:my thing is if this dude is following the rules, following the laws,
Bryan:That's what I'm saying. It's legally gone. He's allowed to have the gun.
Mac:That's all I can tell him is, like, as long as you are legally allowed to have this weapon and you're doing what you're supposed to do Mhmm. Like, I can't tell you anything different. I'm not gonna tell you not to
Bryan:You're not allow you're not saying
Mac:I can't tell you not to Eric, you can't see
Bryan:you cannot answer your door with a gun in your hand.
Mac:If I go to your door
Jenn:with a
Bryan:gun in your hand, I'm gonna be like
Jenn:Don't open the door.
Bryan:Why you got gun in your hand? Like
Jenn:Eric says, do not so my husband who's, you know, probation officer, he went through training, says do not open the door. Until you see a badge, talk through the door.
Bryan:And I agree with that. I really do.
Jenn:And I think yeah. And that is a totally valid reason until you see a badge. Like, that just totally gets by the whole, like, is that really law enforcement? Ask to see their badge before you even open the door.
Bryan:Thank you.
Jenn:So there there is a good
Bryan:I really do.
Jenn:Thing to to tell your troops is that, you know, do not open the door. You can talk through the door. Okay.
Mac:But, yeah, I was
Jenn:to keep them safe.
Mac:I was just, like, it hit home. It's, like, when you you hear it's the 23 year old airman, and then you have 18, 19 year old, 20 year old airman coming to you, like, like, sure. You know? They they're getting us out of the dorm quick and we're in these areas. You know?
Mac:Mhmm. Like, like, some people are like, yo, can I come back on base? I'm just like, bro, they
Bryan:Why are they going
Mac:out of
Bryan:the door? I I think
Mac:it's not a game.
Tay:What are
Bryan:you talking about? No. No. They're,
Mac:they're pretty much because, the the the dorms here at Langley, we got 4. No. We got 5 buildings, but the amount of people here at at the amount of airmen here is high. Like, the average time these these people are staying in the dorms, the old, the most senior person in the dorms probably stayed there 8 months. Out of tech school, get there 8 months, they're out.
Mac:Perfect world at a perfect base, you're a senior airman with 4 years in, possibly 3 and a half whatever, and then they're just like hey man, it's time for you to move on, Here, these cats moving out with one strike. Mhmm.
Bryan:I mean, don't they have, like I mean, when I was in the air force, I I had base house. I was married. So I don't understand the the the concept of the dorms. But in the marine corps, they had, like, you know, your your dorms were, like, you know, non NCOs and NCOs. Nope.
Bryan:And then you had staff and CO dorms. Overseas, we do. Headquarters and stuff like that.
Mac:Yeah. Overseas, we got airmen, NCOs, senior and CO dorms. Stateside, you're in the dorms, and then they're just like, hey, man. You're a grown up. Go get an apartment.
Jenn:Yeah.
Mac:Because we got new airmen coming in. Like going through. We got new people coming in. You gotta get out.
Jenn:Yeah. You know?
Bryan:And they're only getting out.
Mac:You're only getting fucking $1200 a month. And just because you're staying in the Hampton Roads area, like, people are just like
Bryan:So they really kicking people out of the base? Bro. People who live out in town?
Mac:Bro. Unless unless the commander or somebody comes in is like, this person is not ready, they, like, like, why are they not dollars in his bank account. And then they'll look bro. Paul, I understand. I was just saying paycheck.
Mac:It's all good, Jedi, man. It's it's cool. We appreciate that insight as all time, Jedi. It it's Well Unfortunately, it's like a topic that's gonna keep popping up, You know? Because Jedi was on a couple other episodes with me and Black talking about it, and then it's just like it's been a while, but here we are again.
Mac:You know, and, like, you know, when I when I hit you guys up, I think it was about 9 o'clock EST last night. I was, like, I was trying the hardest to be like, I was gonna send you guys some of the the articles and stuff. I was gonna talk about, like, a funny show, like, a who's man's, a house meeting, but We
Tay:can always do that in a different time, though. That's the thing is, like, this
Mac:is how it's Mate, that's what I'm saying. Like, I didn't wanna come on here and be fake and and the minute we hit end record, I'm just like, oh, I'm fucking like, that's not what I wanted to do. Yeah. So I guess that's
Jenn:I think we were feeling
Mac:they were feeling good. Show. Yeah. That's the benefit of having your your own show and shit. You know what I'm saying?
Mac:You you just do the material you wanna do, you know? But, we'll go ahead and and start wrapping it up, but, I'll let everybody kinda give their parting shots and and whatnot. So, we'll start with Brian, then go to Jim, then go to Tay, and then, we'll wrap up.
Bryan:Like I said, taking, you know, bits and pieces from from what everybody is saying throughout the conversation. Like I said, I I I agree with Jen and Eric when you you posted that, that comment. Just because somebody's beating me at the door saying the police, you have to verify it. Even if you have to call the police yourself, like, hey. Somebody's just beaten up my door saying it's the police.
Bryan:That's what you gotta do. Besides that, yes. Do I feel sorry for the guy that lost his life? I really do. Not just because, you know, military and air force related and everything like that.
Bryan:So I lost his life.
Mac:I'm
Bryan:glad to be able to come to show, and everybody's able to express they self about the situation. I appreciate Jen's, comments, and I appreciate Tay's comments about it. I really do because it looks like, you know, it does not just it's I'm not trying to make it a a a race thing. I'm trying to make it a human thing. Mhmm.
Bryan:And, it shouldn't happen. Another thing I wanna put out there, if if anybody whenever this gets out or when people sees it, law enforcement, please, check the people that you are hiring. You gotta be on the job then. You gotta like I said, you you you gotta know how to deescalate the situation. That's the situate.
Bryan:That's what I saw with this whole situation was there was no deescalation. It was a I see a gun I'm shooting. It was no split second. It was no, like, let me evaluate. Is he doing anything with the gun, this and that?
Bryan:He just saw a gun, got scared. So if you're gonna hire scary people, man, stop doing that. That's a joke. But, anyways but, yeah, man. It's a serious situation.
Mac:Serious situation. What you have, Jen?
Jenn:I appreciate everybody that showed up tonight. I know that, Smoke Pit, we you know, you guys usually cut up on Fridays, but, you know, sometimes, you guys get real. So I appreciate you having me on even though I had reservations about it.
Bryan:You did.
Jenn:I did. I did. I'd had reservations about coming on. So I appreciate you having me on. And, I my heart goes out to Roger and his family, and I give mad props to his mom and his family staying strong.
Jenn:And, hopefully, you find some good resolution to that situation. And, I feel a certain way going down there and visiting this summer. So there's that.
Mac:She got to say.
Tay:Just kind of the same thing that Jen was saying. Thank you for having me on tonight. I also was concerned about coming on tonight because I didn't think that I would have really much to say, but I'm glad that I did come on, and got to share how I was feeling. It really just reminds me, like, events like this to, just like, reach out to your loved ones and just tell them you love them. Just because you never know, you know, when it's gonna be the last time we talk to them.
Tay:So it's it's just rough. But, yeah, my heart goes out to his family, his his girlfriend, that had to hear that because I can only imagine, how she's doing. It's just, yeah. Yeah. The the airman.
Tay:Jesus Christ. Yeah. That's it.
Mac:Mike, it's it sucks. Like, it's it's one of them one of the deaths were, like, I don't know them personally, but, like, it's affected me a certain way. You know? Mhmm. I will say, Jin was just like, I don't know if I wanna come on.
Mac:And and this is just for any anybody. I'm assuming most of the people that that Rockwood has kinda know by now, but if any new people come on and they see Jin and they see Tay on here talking about it and be like, oh, this is just social justice warrior and all of a sudden, like, no. Like, Jin, Jin, and I go back 20 plus years. You know? She's down 4 flats like Cadillac.
Mac:You know what I'm saying? Like, this isn't nothing new. She's always been like this. She she's gonna call a spade a spade. If if something's bullshit, she's gonna call it bullshit, you know.
Mac:She's not she's not on this ride the wave of, you know, black lives matter types. Stuff. Like, she's she's been down, tastes the same way. I've known her since she came in that this isn't anything they're doing just because they're on the smoke pit. It's so if you're in the comments and and that's what you're thinking about putting in there, go ahead and and and get rid of that because nobody over here is is gonna buy that.
Mac:But it it it does hurt. This happens, and then on Monday, you know, we'll go live in here like we do every year and and do our toast and our, you know, kinda shout out to to Griff and, Corey and and Mackenzie and and Michelle and and, you know, just ensuring that we're we're not letting, you know, his memory, you know, go away. So we'll be back on on Monday to do that. Standby for for a time when we'll go live and let people come in and and say some words. And then, again, thanks for everybody who joined.
Mac:Like, I was looking at the number of of people viewing the number of comments. It it warmed my heart because I I literally thought, like, the viewership would be down because we're not laughing at people, that we're not being funny, that people would be like, oh, it's kind of a a down way to start the the weekend. But I was noticing, when we put the post in there, the feedback, and and people were were supporting the decision to talk about this. So, again, everybody here on on the show, and and across DFPN, heart goes out to, the the Forcing family, and, I don't know, man. Hopefully, one day, you know, some changes will be made to where things like this aren't happening as often, but one can only hope.
Mac:But, unless anybody else has anything to add, again, like, I I would click the outro video, but I I feel like the the mood is just we should just probably, end the episode. But, everybody, good night, and and like Tay said, you know, call and and talk to your loved ones, man, because this world is scary out here, and you never know. You know? So, I'm the homie Mac AKA your boy. Thanks again to my brother Brian, Jen, and and Tay, the Queens of Nerdem, joining the episode and and helping me, talk through my feelings because I was very confused and and emotional yesterday.
Mac:So I I'm thinking I'm in a better headspace, but, you know, it it still hurts. But we gotta we gotta move and and and move forward, but let's not forget the the stellar person and all the potential that this young man had moving forward. So, thank you guys for tuning in and, hopefully next week we'll, we'll, we'll have some laughs and some jokes for you, but, until then you guys be safe and take care. Peace.