Ep 037: Inner Child Work and Reparenting the Self with Jana Wilson

Jana Wilson is an emotional healing educator, meditation teacher, retreat leader, hypnotherapist, HeartMath Facilitator, and founder of the Emotional Healing System. For the past two decades she has taught thousands internationally in group and private retreats. Jana trained with best selling author and physician, Deepak Chopra MD and NY Times best-selling author, Debbie Ford. She lives off grid in the foothills of the Sangre de Christo mountain range in Santa Fe, NM, with her husband and business partner, Dr. Lance Wilson. When she is not guiding clients to heal, she enjoys hiking, yoga and watching documentaries.

Episode Resources:
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Creators & Guests

Host

Jennifer Hayes

Host

Rick Hayes

Guest

Jana Wilson

Jana Wilson is an emotional healing educator, meditation teacher, retreat leader, hypnotherapist, HeartMath Facilitator, and founder of the Emotional Healing System. For the past two decades she has taught thousands internationally in group and private retreats. Jana trained with best selling author and physician, Deepak Chopra MD and NY Times best - selling author, Debbie Ford. She l ives off grid in the foothills of the Sangre de Christo mountain range in Santa Fe, NM, with her husband and business partner, Dr. Lance Wilson. When she is not guiding clients to heal, she enjoys hiking, yoga and watching documentaries.

Editor

Natalie Long

What is The Relational Parenting Podcast?

Welcome to the Relational Parenting Podcast! I’m Jennifer Hayes – a Parent Coach and 20 year Childcare Veteran. Each week I sit down with my own father (and cohost), Rick Hayes, and discuss the complicated issues that parents face today, as well as some of the oldest questions in the book. From the latest research and the framework of my Relational Parenting Method, we offer thought-provoking solutions to your deepest parenting struggles.
Relational Parenting is an evidence and experience based parenting method created by me - Jennie. After 20 years in the child care world, in every scenario you could possibly imagine, I realized one thing: EVERYONE was prioritizing the behavior and performance of a child over their emotional well-being. This frustrated me to no end and when I re-visited the latest research, I realized there was a better way. I started applying the principles I'd been learning in my own self-work, parent-child relationships, and partnerships, and I started gobbling up all the new research and books I could get my hands on. When I saw the results of putting these practices into play with the children I was taking care of - the difference in myself AND the kids I worked with was ASTOUNDING.
I am SO PROUD to be presenting Relational Parenting to the world. I can't wait to hear about your own journey. From Parents-to-be to the seasoned parenting veteran - there's something here for everyone!

Jennie (00:00.611)
We are one, two, dad, you went black again. There you are. I don't see the recording on yours.

And he's gone.

Jana Wilson (00:14.606)
You

Jennie (00:15.971)
Welcome back. There's always.

Jana Wilson (00:17.838)
just all having technical difficulties. It's like a weird, maybe it's the full moon.

Jennie (00:21.159)
We've never had a... It is, I always blame the full moon or the new moon. But there's, we've never had a recording where something wasn't like, we had to like figure something out. So I just blame technology.

Jana Wilson (00:38.782)
It is, I mean it's like I said, it's a blessing and a curse.

Jennie (00:43.028)
Yeah.

Jana Wilson (00:44.514)
And if we keep having problems, I mean, OK, we're rescheduling. I don't, you know, I hate that I took up y'all's time with the damn Chrome.

Jennie (00:58.231)
That's all, it's all good. We, this is about, this is about a typical timeline. We all join at one and then we don't really get into anything until 1.15, 1.30. Cause everybody's getting everything set up.

Jana Wilson (01:07.978)
Okay.

Jana Wilson (01:11.89)
And we'll go about how long just because I do have a client here and I can't stay too long on the phone. 45? Okay.

Jennie (01:20.179)
We usually go about an hour. We can shorten it if you need to.

Jana Wilson (01:25.694)
Yeah, I think that would be better for me if I could be done by, yeah. It's just the last day of her retreat and it's a lot. I mean, normally I would be up at my house. It'd be fine. It's lunchtime, but I'm down here with her. It's kind of weird.

Jennie (01:29.334)
Okay.

Jennie (01:35.275)
Yeah.

Jennie (01:42.015)
Yeah, no worries.

Jana Wilson (01:45.302)
Where's Dad?

Jennie (01:45.867)
He... I don't know. He is...

Jana Wilson (01:48.342)
So cool you guys do this together.

Jennie (01:51.587)
Thank you. Oh, there he is. I was just texting him.

Jana Wilson (01:54.55)
and you...

Papa Rick (01:56.56)
Sorry, I was being helpful with the Chrome upgrade and then my Chrome decided it was going to restart just at the time she hit record. My bad.

Jana Wilson (02:04.955)
Oh, okay, there you go.

Jennie (02:08.515)
That's all right. Jana has about 45 minutes, dad. I've got a red button on everybody's and we're just going to get started. It's been a couple of weeks. Welcome back everybody to the Relational Parenting Podcast and welcome Jana Wilson. Thank you so much for being here today.

Papa Rick (02:14.797)
Okay, jump in.

Jana Wilson (02:17.218)
Jump in.

Jana Wilson (02:32.814)
Oh, thanks, Jeannie, for having me and Rick.

Papa Rick (02:36.656)
Hey there.

Jennie (02:37.893)
Yeah. We, um, so Jana, you recently released a book called wise little one and recently released, but many, many years in the making. Is that right?

Jana Wilson (02:49.632)
That's right.

Jennie (02:51.495)
Yeah, yeah. And you sent me a copy of the book and I read it and I was just blown away and it spoke to me in so many different parts of my life. But the inner child work that you talk about is like, it's so like the depth that you go into with it is what kind of really pulled me in because I've

Papa Rick (03:03.728)
Yeah, very cool book.

Jennie (03:18.591)
I've known about inner child work. I've done a little bit of it with my own therapist, but I haven't done the deep dive that you've done. And I was just so excited to have you on here and to have you share more about. What you do with our audience who parents, I mean, bringing up the, their, their children who are currently in their inner child, um, and not right, not creating an environment.

where those children grow up and have to be adults who reparent themselves. And yeah, I'm just so excited to have you.

Jana Wilson (03:54.018)
Thank you.

Papa Rick (03:55.944)
I have not done inner child work and reading what I've read of your book convinces me I probably need to do some of them. I appreciate the exposure. I've heard that phrase before, but I appreciate the exposure to the term. The stories you tell are very, you can tell you've been there. The way you describe some of the situations, it was very, very...

Jennie (04:03.99)
Hahahaha

Papa Rick (04:23.46)
hard-hitting, but affected me and made me take what you're saying very seriously. I need to explore that more myself. So thank you.

Jana Wilson (04:33.647)
Yeah, thank you. I, you know, of course when I was young, I didn't know I was managing my inner child, right? I didn't know anything about that. I didn't understand developmental trauma. I didn't understand, you know, precognitive trauma, which I experienced in the womb. We all know that mothers who drink do drugs when they're pregnant. Of course it's affecting the fetus.

Papa Rick (04:43.076)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (04:58.673)
Yeah.

Jana Wilson (04:58.842)
But what about a mother who's clinically depressed? What about a mother who is being beaten or being abused, emotional abuse even, and the child's taking a steady diet of adrenaline, noradrenaline, cortisol? And the best way, many people ask me, what is the inner child? It is our feeling self. When we were little, we don't have the rational structure defenses of an adult, so we take everything personal.

Papa Rick (05:26.02)
of an adult. So we took everything personal. The first seven years of the developmental years, birth to seven, of developmental. And we're looking to this lens at everything through filtering along motion.

Jana Wilson (05:28.406)
those first seven years of developmental years, birth to seven is developmental. And we're looking through this lens at everything through filtering of our emotions. And when I started doing work and shadow work and all my professional training, I began to see that if I could, and this was like in the early 90s when I, John Bradshaw was the...

Papa Rick (05:50.12)
to see that if I could, and this is like in the early 90s, John Bradshaw was the really the one who opened my eyes to inner child, feeling the toxic family dysfunctional dynamics, my father was an alcoholic, my mother, of course, was a battered woman.

Jana Wilson (05:56.958)
really the one who opened my eyes to inner child and healing the toxic family dysfunctional dynamics. My father was an alcoholic. My mother, of course, was a battered woman. So she had battered woman syndrome. She also had bipolar borderline personality disorders. So she was dealing with a lot from the loss of her father when she was 12. And so

you know, then we go intergenerational trauma. The Bible says the sins of the father get passed on. And so in my family, you know, that was being passed on, my father, you know, they immigrated from Ireland. It's a lot of drinking. My, you know, and so you start to see your own family of origins trauma and that you're taking it on. And of course that was in hindsight, right? Like that I was doing that.

Papa Rick (06:25.154)
And so, you know, then we go into generational trauma. The Bible says the sins of the Father get passed on. Mm-hmm. And so, you know, it was being.

Papa Rick (06:40.931)
Hmm.

Jennie (06:49.719)
Yep.

Yep. Always.

Jana Wilson (06:55.598)
Yeah, and there's different types of trauma. You know, of course, Wise Little One, I share. I score 10 out of 10 in adverse childhood experiences. So there's 10 questions clinicians give clients to ascertain what type of trauma did they have growing up, and mine, I answer yes to all 10.

Papa Rick (06:56.989)
And there's different types of trauma. You know, of course, why is it that when I share, I score 10 out of 10 in adverse childhood experiences. So there's 10 questions that can be given to clients to, you know, ascertain what type of trauma do they have growing up, and my answer yes to all 10.

Jana Wilson (07:18.134)
But there's traumas, I don't even like to say big T trauma and little T trauma, because the little T trauma, it's like you're negating it, you're minimizing it. To a child, I had a client once, she said, you know, my childhood was great. My parents were great, they're still married. I don't know why at 45 years old I'm unhappy. That's why I came to you. And I took her through hypnotherapy and she discovered when she was five, so that's that first, you know, seven years.

Papa Rick (07:18.748)
But there's traumas. I don't even want to say big two trauma and little two trauma because they're little two traumas, but they're negating it and minimizing it. To a child, I had a client who had to do it.

Papa Rick (07:32.56)
parents were great, they're still married. I don't know why at 45 years old I'm unhappy. That's why I came to you. And I took her through hit and a therapy and she discovered when she was five, about her first, you know, seven years, she was at a lake. They were forcing her to get into the lake. She couldn't see the bottom of the lake. It scared her. Rather than honoring that she wasn't ready and let her go in at all times.

Jana Wilson (07:46.91)
She was at a lake. They were forcing her to get into the lake. She couldn't see the bottom of the lake. It scared her. Rather than honoring that she wasn't ready and let her go in her own time, they forced her in because of course they knew she'd be fine. In that moment, because her reality was denied and she wasn't being seen or heard, which are two archetypal parental trauma that parents do, unknowingly.

Papa Rick (07:59.888)
They forced her in, and they should be fine. In that moment, because her reality was denied, and she wasn't being seen or heard, which are two archetypal parental trauma that parents do, unknowingly unconscious. They're not intentionally doing this. So she made a meaning, and I call it our operating system. Her meaning was, my feelings don't matter.

Jennie (08:03.051)
Yeah.

Jana Wilson (08:15.91)
unconscious, you know, they're not intentionally doing this. But, so she made a meaning, and I call it our operating system. Her meaning was, my feelings don't matter. If they did, mom and dad would listen. They would not have forced me in that water. So at five years old, she makes a meaning that my feelings don't matter and guess at 45 what's her biggest complaint. No one cares about what I feel.

Jennie (08:25.162)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (08:29.007)
Yep.

Papa Rick (08:30.664)
They did. I was listening. They were not forcing me in that water. So at five years old, she makes a meaning that I don't even know how to guess. At 45, it's the biggest thing. My only thing is that she cares about me. She cares about her feelings. It sticks. It becomes part of her infrastructure. And that's a lot of that is... The operating system. There you go. Yeah. Becomes that. Yeah. And that might have been generational too.

Jana Wilson (08:44.63)
No one listens to me. Yeah.

Jennie (08:45.347)
Yeah.

Jana Wilson (08:50.846)
I call it the operating system, Rick. She defaults to it.

Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (08:59.488)
I mean, her parents may have been raised that way and thought they were being good parents because that's the way we do it. And by golly, next thing you know, it's generational. Yeah.

Jana Wilson (09:10.898)
Exactly, like, be a big girl, you know, boys get that message, you know, don't be weak, don't cry, you know, man up, like, and yeah, we get these and it's not because we had malicious parents. I mean, let's face it, parenting doesn't come with a, you know, a book, like, we don't go to school to learn emotional intelligence.

Jennie (09:15.331)
Thanks for watching!

Papa Rick (09:15.879)
Yeah.

Jennie (09:31.207)
Yeah, which is what we're trying to change.

Papa Rick (09:32.22)
That's one of my favorite things. Why not? We've been doing this for a while now. Why is there not a manual and a test you have to take before you become a parent? For a driver's license, there ought to be some basic things you have to pass before you're allowed to breed. Okay, end of rent. I know that'll never happen.

Jana Wilson (09:50.56)
Exactly.

Or at least for the parents who want that, right? Like, hey, I'm a new parent, I'm pregnant. Is there a book out there that teaches me how to conscious parent? Well, there is now. Dr. Shafali has one, and conscious parenting, and yeah.

Papa Rick (09:57.701)
Yeah.

Jennie (10:03.885)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (10:04.006)
Yeah.

Jennie (10:09.539)
There's a lot, yeah. And it makes me so happy that it is becoming more mainstream now. Gentle parenting is kind of the big term. Conscious and mindful, I think, are also out there. And that's, with relational parenting, similar to what we're trying to do, is like it's all about the emotional intelligence. It's all about...

meeting the emotional needs of your children between those ages zero to seven because that's what sets them up with the foundation to move into cognitive, to move into the higher brain, to move in to reasoning and all of those different skills because if you don't address the emotional foundation first and we don't honor all of those things first and we validate our child's reality etc then

They move through life thinking I don't matter what I think doesn't matter. My feelings don't matter. Nobody believes me, et cetera. And those carry on like that one woman you talked about as a client, she's 45 and she still believes those things. I still believe there's, there's now she's gone through your retreat, but yeah, I mean, I, you know, I've been in therapy for, with my therapist for like eight years now, um, and it's still.

Jana Wilson (11:16.718)
Well, not anymore, but yeah.

Jennie (11:31.167)
I'm still working on undoing some of the beliefs that I hold from my childhood.

Papa Rick (11:33.798)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (11:37.6)
Yeah. Early, early in your book, that's you said you had a lot of heartbreaking days and then weeks of deeper healing. You know, that's the thing that gets me about this is a, you got to get people self aware that people do have operating systems and there's that game going on at that level. And then once you have a realization, then it may take a while to process that, you know, it's not a snap your finger kind of fix thing. It's hard work.

Jana Wilson (12:07.386)
Well, a belief is a practice thought. So when we were little, we began to practice thinking a thought over and over. And in her case, we'll use her as an example. My feelings don't matter. So then it anchors as a belief, her operating system. So no matter what she reads or what she does, that software of the book or the retreat or the what, won't sustain for long.

Papa Rick (12:12.843)
Hmm.

Papa Rick (12:18.428)
Hmm

Jana Wilson (12:34.926)
term until she practices daily thinking differently. So hers was, of course, if that's the false belief that my feelings don't matter, then what would the true belief be would my feelings matter? Now, she has to say that to herself every day and then she's going to be presented with multiple opportunities to advocate for herself, right, to advocate for her inner child. Because in reparenting, what we're doing is

stepping into being a healthy adult, not an adult child. And an adult child is, I'm 50 acting five, right? Road rage, you see it. So once we step into the role of becoming a healthy adult, then we realize there's certain feelings and experiences that we had when we were little. And of course, they continue to happen and we get triggered, our buttons get pushed, we get emotionally charged.

Jennie (13:14.305)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (13:25.692)
Feelings, you know, and experiences that we have when we were little. And of course, you know, they continue to happen. And we get triggered, our buttons get pushed, we get emotional and tired. And, you know, the key is to be childlike, not childish. Yeah. It's learning what I teach is a three-step process of repairing. It's about intent. I have an intent to understand my feelings.

Jana Wilson (13:35.574)
And the key is to be childlike, not childish. Right? And so it's learning what I teach is a three-step process of reparenting. It's about intent. Like I have an intent to understand my feelings. I relate with my feelings like a little girl. So little Jana and I have a very close relationship because she trusts me, I listen to her. Of course, that is me.

Jennie (13:41.143)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (13:58.665)
I have a very close relationship with her. She trusts me. I listen to her. Of course, that is me. But it's my emotional self. It's not my physical self or my mental self or my spiritual self. It's my emotional self. And so I relate with that. I'm excited.

Jana Wilson (14:04.834)
But it's my emotional self. It's not my physical self or my mental self or my spiritual self. It's my emotional self. And so I relate with anxiety. Like, oh, little Jana, tell me what I'm doing or saying or watching on TV or what am I doing that's creating anxiety for you? And then she'll say, well, you're watching too much about the war. Or you're

Papa Rick (14:17.636)
like, oh, little dana, tell me what I'm doing or saying or watching on TV or what am I doing that's creating anxiety for you? And then she'll say, well, you're watching too much about the war or

Jennie (14:26.666)
Mm.

Jana Wilson (14:34.382)
entertaining ideas of children, you know, being hurt or, and it's making me nervous and anxious and I'm helpless over that. And so then I'm like, I can see I'm doing that to you. I apologize, you know, please forgive me. And then what action do I need to take? Well, the action is stop consuming that stuff that's making me anxious, right? Yeah, it could be about money.

Papa Rick (14:34.74)
you're entertaining ideas of children being hurt, or it's making me nervous and anxious, and I'm helpless over that. And so then I'm like, I can see I'm doing that to you. I apologize, please forgive me. And then what action do I need to take? Well, the action is stop consuming that stuff that's making me anxious. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. It could be about money. It, you know.

Jennie (14:57.997)
Right?

Jana Wilson (15:01.686)
you know, oh, you're telling me we don't have enough money that, you know, we're going to be, you know, homeless or, you know, that's creating anxiety. You know, general anxiety disorder is one of the all-time, you know, largest prescription prescribed disorders, right? And it's people, it's each person creating a story in their mind that creates the anxiety.

Papa Rick (15:15.936)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's part of that. There's a lot more anxiety from what I hear, you know, people, there's a lot more of it, or at least it's identified more now than other.

Jana Wilson (15:26.954)
And so.

Papa Rick (15:38.116)
earlier generations, maybe my generation used to worry about it. I mean, I think we kind of poo-pooed that for a long time and now people are, it's becoming apparent people are anxious about things more than they used to be.

Jana Wilson (15:52.106)
Right, and they're the ones who are creating it. Yeah, for sure, definitely. And even depression, you know, what is depression? Look up the word, depressed means to push down. So if my little girl, my emotional self is feeling, you know, anxious or fearful or something, and I'm saying, you know, get over it, just stop, Jana. You know, like grow up, like stop feeling this way.

Jennie (15:52.875)
Well, or it's talked about more. Yeah.

Papa Rick (15:55.undefined)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Papa Rick (16:03.461)
Thanks for watching!

Jana Wilson (16:18.966)
That's like a little girl sitting here telling me I'm scared of me going, stop it. I don't, that's not very good parenting, right? But as soon as I relate with that and I have clients put pictures of themselves as children on their phone and really make this person real, this little person that you once were, and I look at her and I'm like, oh my gosh, I wouldn't talk to a little girl that way. I would be like, what is it, dear? You know, tell me, I love you. I'm here. I'm listening.

Jennie (16:23.519)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (16:25.215)
That's not very good pyramid. Mm-hmm. But as soon as I would let you guys.

Jennie (16:37.186)
Yeah.

Jennie (16:45.997)
Yeah.

Jana Wilson (16:49.138)
And so high emotional intelligence, one of the key factors is leaning into discomfort.

Jennie (16:56.407)
Yes, yes. We've talked about that before on here a few times, is that there's, in order to do any of this work and in parenting, you know, we talk a lot about that. Like a lot of parenting is being willing to be in discomfort, being in relationship, an intimate relationship of any

Papa Rick (16:57.898)
Hmm.

Papa Rick (17:17.81)
Yep.

Papa Rick (17:21.149)
Yeah.

Jana Wilson (17:25.474)
Yes.

Papa Rick (17:25.49)
Yeah.

Jennie (17:26.711)
not freak out, not run away, not scream, not do all of these harmful things. And I love the way that you describe and set up the relationship with the inner child makes it so visceral because you make it almost another entity. And so it's like, we are not, we as the, my adult self is responsible for this tiny human being and it's me.

Jana Wilson (17:46.335)
Yes!

Jennie (17:55.551)
Like you said, it's still me, but it's, I'm going to look back at three and five and six year old Jenny, and I'm going to go, these are the things that I thought when I was those ages. These are the things that I felt. These are the things that I loved and wanted to do. And then I'm going to reenter my adult body. And I'm going to look at that five year old version of me and go, what did she need? And then give that to myself. And you describe that so beautifully. In some of your stories in the book.

Jana Wilson (18:18.03)
Exactly.

Papa Rick (18:23.388)
Yeah.

Jennie (18:25.311)
You really show how you did that for yourself. You really draw a picture. And you show exactly how intentional you have to be about it, like how you talked to yourself through those moments where you were like, no, I'm going to honor little Jana. I promise I'm going to take care of you first. You come first. Everything else can wait. And that's.

Papa Rick (18:36.904)
Yeah.

Jana Wilson (18:37.123)
Hmm.

Jennie (18:52.735)
you know, reparenting or parenting. It's what it's gotta be.

Jana Wilson (18:53.806)
Because, and in the opposite, you know, Ginny, is abandoning. You know, I'll have, say somebody reaches out to me, they're an adult, obviously, and they say, I have abandonment issues. I know immediately that they are abandoning themselves. Because adults cannot be abandoned. If you're handicapped, if you're elderly.

Papa Rick (18:58.208)
So, in my opinion, I've always abandoned them. You know, I have personally reached a gap in my life and I've always felt that I've always abandoned them. I know immediately that they are abandoning themselves. They will are.

Jennie (19:13.132)
Yes.

Jana Wilson (19:21.358)
If you're a child, yes, you can be abandoned, but an adult can't be abandoned. So if I'm talking to a woman and she says, you know, this man abandoned me, and I'm like, okay, and you take care of yourself, you pay your bills, you do everything. Okay, you can't be abandoned. You abandoned yourself. So what does that mean? It's like little Jana, I put somebody else's needs and above my own. And so I told her

Jennie (19:36.51)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (19:49.104)
Mm-hmm

Jana Wilson (19:50.214)
I think I shared in the book where I met my husband now and he was going through a divorce I thought. And he really wasn't going to, he hadn't filed yet, right? And little Jana started screaming, oh my God, you're going to break my heart. You promised, you know, you wouldn't do this ever again. Here I am 49 years old at that point. And I had to stop the car and get clear.

Jennie (19:54.097)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (20:00.323)
Mm-hmm.

Jana Wilson (20:14.482)
she comes first. My feelings come first. I'm not going to abandon her. So I said, I advocated for myself, which is something I hadn't done up until that point. And I said to him, you know what, I choose me. I don't date married men. So when you're further along your path, you know, let me know. I'm a woman of value. I value myself. I value my little girl. Yeah.

Jennie (20:16.669)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (20:22.32)
Yeah. Yeah, that's it.

Jennie (20:24.587)
Yeah.

Jennie (20:28.32)
Yeah.

Jennie (20:36.947)
Yeah. I love that story because when you read it, if you read that story in your book as a person who hasn't done any inner work, and coming from a woman's perspective, I've abandoned myself a million times in relationships to be something for someone else. And that relationship doesn't ever work out, right? It never works out. And then you end up three years down the road, heartbroken, wondering what happened. And

Papa Rick (21:02.096)
Hehehehehehe

Jennie (21:07.003)
If myself from, you know, four plus years ago would have read that book, that story, I would have been like, man, that was cold hearted what she said to him. And I read it now and I'm like, yes, she, like, you just, it's just, you just didn't beat around the bush. The nothing that you said was mean or rude or unkind. It was just, this is how I feel. These are my boundaries.

Jana Wilson (21:23.38)
I'm going to go to bed.

Papa Rick (21:23.592)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Jennie (21:37.215)
you know, and that's how it's gonna be. And you even said, if and when you're actually divorced or divorcing, give me a call.

Jana Wilson (21:47.234)
Yeah, that was four days later he did it. I was like, oh, he's a man of integrity, okay.

Jennie (21:51.795)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (21:52.716)
There you go. There you go. Motivated. Yeah, I love the way you articulate it, Jana, that there are so many people out there that, you know, they're suffering or uncomfortable in pain, and they're not aware that this can work like this. You know, you articulate this and deconstruct it so well. You know, there's a there's a method you can, speaking to the parents out there, you can work on.

yourself at the same time as your parenting and eliminate or reduce the need for reparenting in your children, you know, because of bad habits you learned maybe from your parents or some traumatic experiences, whatever. But there are people out there and a little bit of study on your own, on your own. You can go a long way towards doing this stuff. And of course, what we're here to do is to get you exposed to people like Jana, who will...

Jana Wilson (22:45.294)
for sure.

Papa Rick (22:50.589)
You know, and Jenny who can walk you through this, you know, who have seen this before and can help you walk through it when you get stuck.

Jana Wilson (22:59.594)
Absolutely.

Jennie (22:59.979)
Yeah, so we mentioned your book, Wise Little One, but you also have emotional healing retreats, correct? Tell us more about that.

Jana Wilson (23:10.466)
Hmm, I do.

Jana Wilson (23:14.838)
Yeah, so I created, you know, in doing my own healing work, which I had a lot to do, right? Because I, at a young age, I had to get to this place of how can I reconcile my childhood? Like, I felt very victimized, you know? It was hard to look back and see. I was sexually molested by my father, by a cousin. I don't even put that in the book. I mean, there was traumas I kept out of the book, okay? That's how many there were. It was like...

Papa Rick (23:21.906)
Mm.

Jana Wilson (23:43.178)
How much can the reader handle, you know? And so looking back at that and of course,

Jennie (23:43.738)
Hmm. Yeah.

Jana Wilson (23:52.674)
books would show up, teachers would show up, I'd be able to reframe it. And the biggest reframe for me was asking myself the question in my early 20s, what if I chose it?

Like what if my soul chose that mother, that father for this experience for something greater than wonder what that could be? Now once I reframed it, I started to feel very strong within. I was like, okay, well only a strong soul would choose that life. And so then I got really busy, right, about healing. I found a therapist. I began doing Course in Miracles. I started studying metaphysics.

Jennie (24:05.525)
Mmm.

Papa Rick (24:15.288)
Yeah.

Jennie (24:15.541)
Yeah.

Jennie (24:25.28)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (24:26.912)
And so then I got really busy, right? About healing my therapist, and getting into the new world, and studying metaphysical, and helping me to be heard, which taught me to understand false beliefs. And, you know, so everything, I started to really practice practical Christian energy. Jesus left us with two commandments. Love your neighbor as yourself. I didn't love myself. I've never been to a church where they taught me to love myself. They taught me to be selfless.

Jana Wilson (24:34.694)
I found Unity Church which helped me understand false beliefs and you know so everything I started to really practice practical Christianity. Jesus left us with two commandments, love your neighbor as yourself. I didn't love myself. I've never been to a church where they taught me to love myself. They taught me to be selfless, but I wanted to learn how to love myself. So go back in time. It's late 80s, early 90s.

Jennie (24:53.323)
Yeah. Yep.

Papa Rick (24:56.86)
But I wanted to learn how to use it. That was at the time, late 80s, early 90s. And I'm still not.

Jana Wilson (25:03.014)
And there's not a lot out there. There's no internet or anything. And so I became a voracious, just really opening myself up. And of course, the book, You, I talk about that book that fell off the bookcase when I was in San Francisco. That changed my life. They were talking about law of attraction in that book. It was copywritten in 1935.

Jennie (25:06.1)
Yeah.

Jennie (25:23.671)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (25:26.346)
Yeah, it's been around a while.

Jennie (25:26.877)
Oh wow.

Jana Wilson (25:28.638)
And so I began to just devour all of this, and I just became so excited about the possibility of being a cycle breaker. Like I had a baby, I was a new mother, I was a single mom, what if all of that happened for me, not to me? And if it happened for me, then what's the lesson? And as soon as I shifted that, that's when the teacher showed up. Deepak Chopra was my first teacher.

Jennie (25:30.569)
End of that.

Jennie (25:41.537)
Yeah.

Jana Wilson (25:58.354)
You know, I began to learn that Wayne Dyer was one of my first teachers, Marianne Williamson. So I was devouring all of this content, right?

Jennie (26:06.079)
Oh no. You're with the big names. Yeah.

Papa Rick (26:07.577)
Yeah.

Jana Wilson (26:10.978)
Well, I lived in South Florida. Wayne lived there. My sister, my daughter's father's sister was his travel agent. So we went to a lot of events and then I began to know him personally. And then, you know, when Return to Love came out, eventually I ended up working with Debbie Ford and training with her and moved to California and learned all the shadow work. So I started to see like,

Papa Rick (26:22.984)
Oh boy. Cool.

Papa Rick (26:37.948)
I started to see like, will there be pop shadow? Will there be pop pop, you know, more spirituality and meditation and things like that, and then consciousness, and then, you know, each of my teachers was keeping something, but it wasn't a full system. Yeah. And I was like.

Jana Wilson (26:39.03)
Will Debbie taught shadow? Will Deepak taught more spirituality and meditation and things like that, and then consciousness. And then each of my teachers was teaching something, but it wasn't a full system. And I was like, I want A to Z. If I were looking for healing, I wouldn't go to, I started to realize after 10 years in therapy,

Jennie (26:54.435)
Uh huh. Yeah.

Jennie (26:59.843)
Mmm.

Jana Wilson (27:08.642)
to a therapist to sit for 50 minutes or an hour, it never got me anywhere. It was top down, right? We just dealt with the issue that was right there present. It was no bottom, right? It wasn't root cause therapy. I wanted to get to the nitty gritty. I wanted to get down to the root cause. And so then I became a hypnotherapist and that really opened me up. That's when I started to see if we can bypass the conscious mind, this yak, yak intellect.

Jennie (27:14.839)
Yeah.

Jennie (27:19.137)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (27:20.42)
Yeah, right.

Yeah.

Papa Rick (27:32.093)
Hmm.

Jana Wilson (27:37.226)
and we can get down deep and let go of the mind and get access to subconscious, memories would pop. And then those memories with a good hypnotherapist, they could guide you to extract lessons from those experiences. That was a game changer. So then I started to see around, I launched my business in 2004, around 2009, I was burnt out.

Jennie (27:37.549)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (27:37.606)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (27:53.286)
therapists they could guide you to extract lessons. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (27:58.791)
Yeah.

Jana Wilson (28:05.162)
And I was like, okay, I want to create an experience for someone that I would have wanted. Just tell me what to do. I know somebody knew. So I had done enough trainings and work at that point. So here's what I did. I said, there's foundation. What is the foundation? You can't build a house on, you know, on shaky ground. So what's the foundation of an emotionally intelligent person? Self-awareness. Okay.

Papa Rick (28:14.6)
to do. Somebody knew. So I had done enough training and work at that point. So here's what I did. I said there's foundation. What is the foundation? You can't build a house on shaky ground. So what's the foundation of a new house? So I said, I'm going to build a house on shaky ground. So what's the foundation of a new house? So I said, I'm going to build a house on shaky ground. So what's the foundation of a new house? So I said, I'm going to build a house on shaky ground. So what's the foundation of a new house? So I said, I'm going to build a house on shaky ground. So what's the foundation of a new house?

Jana Wilson (28:33.858)
How do we get self-awareness? We have to have mindfulness, we have to meditate, we have to have silence. Because when we were born, we were little human beings, and then we became human feelings and human thinkings in school, and then they pushed us out in the world and said, now go be a human doing. And we've got a source, right? Human being, just being.

Papa Rick (28:34.265)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (28:39.042)
you have to have silence. Because when we were born, we...

Papa Rick (28:45.4)
between human feelings and human thinking since school. I mean, they pushed this out in the world and said, now go be a human being. Yeah. And we've got, we got a-

Jennie (28:52.715)
I love that.

Jana Wilson (28:57.762)
So I became a meditation teacher. So that was a big piece. Like let me teach people how to unwind the nervous system, regulate their nervous system, calm down, you know, be present. So my teacher Eckhart Tolle, I trained with him. So it's all these, you know, just Eckhart Tolle.

Papa Rick (28:58.31)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (29:13.065)
Huh. EST.

Papa Rick (29:17.868)
Totally is that the EST who am I thinking of you've you? Born around okay, all right. All right I've heard the name

Jana Wilson (29:21.47)
No, Est was done by Warner Erhart. So that's what Landmark is today. Yeah. Eckhart Tolle is a German man who wrote a book called The Power of Now and A New Earth. And Oprah really took him to the next level 15 years ago or so. And he teaches all about just being present, like looking at a tree. And don't label it a tree. Just be present.

Papa Rick (29:35.428)
Okay.

Papa Rick (29:42.897)
Okay.

Papa Rick (29:51.024)
Don't label it. That's right. You're so fortunate to have run into these people. This is, this is great.

Jennie (29:51.809)
Yeah.

Jana Wilson (29:52.526)
Don't put the labels. Well, it was my intent, right? Like my intent was you, there's people out there who know, go to them, and I was lucky that I was successful. My ex-husband and I had a successful business together that it gave, afforded me the luxury to be able to have the money to spend on all of this, right? All my trainings and all that. So I saw, you know, this emotional healing system, Jenny, is what I created.

Papa Rick (30:03.259)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (30:13.021)
Okay, okay.

Jennie (30:15.851)
Yeah.

Jana Wilson (30:22.366)
So foundation is consciousness is everything. So you gotta be mindful, you gotta stand guard at the door of your mind, because if you don't master it, you'll be a slave to it.

Jennie (30:23.06)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (30:25.278)
Okay.

Jana Wilson (30:35.01)
Then I said, okay, people don't understand the psyche. And so let me teach the psyche. Let me teach them how your psyche is formed. It's formed with light and dark parts, like selfish and selfless, or loving and unloving, or we can't have one without the other. It's daylight right now. How do we know it's daylight? Because we've experienced darkness.

Papa Rick (30:51.916)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (30:55.873)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (31:00.321)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (31:00.572)
Very Zen. Yep.

Jana Wilson (31:00.926)
If we never experienced darkness, we would just not probably even have a word for daylight, right?

Jennie (31:06.291)
Right. It would just be.

Papa Rick (31:07.644)
certainly.

Jana Wilson (31:08.19)
Exactly. And so we experience things through contrast. So that's when I did my training with shadow work and psychosynthesis. So I teach, you know, a person here is who here is you. You were conditioned as a child and you were told don't be selfish. Don't be too full of yourself. Don't be conceited. Don't be. But children naturally are these qualities.

Papa Rick (31:37.398)
Very.

Jana Wilson (31:37.558)
And they're being told, don't be, don't be, don't be. And then we get middle-aged and we're like, who the hell am I? Because I've been told my whole life, you know, put that part of your personality away. That's not good. So I added that to the teaching and then the pre-parenting. So we relate with these parts of ourself, like say you got a message as a child to perform.

Papa Rick (31:41.148)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jennie (31:50.658)
Yeah.

Jana Wilson (32:07.086)
because we get conditioned one of two ways, through looks or performance. Mine was looks, beauty pageants, you gotta be pretty, or your worth is defined by how you look.

Papa Rick (32:10.657)
to raise the work circle for our next. Mine is work, beauty projects, you gotta be pretty, you gotta be gorgeous to find out how you work. Some kids, my work is designed by what grades I get, I get A's, B's, C's, F's.

Jana Wilson (32:19.074)
Some kids, my worth is defined by what grades I get, how I perform in sports, right? But true, the really conscious parent will take a child and say, I love you when you make mistakes. You don't have to get good grades for me to prove in a love of you. Love you. You know, I am here for you. I validate you. I see you. And then that's intrinsic worth.

Papa Rick (32:34.96)
I'm here for you, I validate you, I see you, and then that's insensitive work. Not expensive, right? I'm not looking at you. Unconditional.

Jennie (32:45.665)
Yes.

Jana Wilson (32:46.398)
not extrinsic, right? I'm not looking out in the world like I've, exactly, I have to make a certain amount of money or look a certain way in order to be valuable. I'm valuable because I exist, because I'm breathing, I'm here. And when a child gets that message, it's a game changer because I see it with my grandson and my daughter and my grandson seven, and he is very emotionally intelligent.

Jennie (33:03.655)
S.

Papa Rick (33:06.757)
Mm-hmm

Jana Wilson (33:14.838)
He advocates for his feelings, his feelings are respected. He's not, you know, love isn't given if he does good. It's also given if he does bad or poorly, you know? It's not based on these, you know, polar opposites. It's just, you're right, on performance or looks, right.

Papa Rick (33:24.317)
good. It's also given if he does bad. It's not based on his full or opposite. Performance, yeah.

Jennie (33:33.215)
Yeah. Our behavior shaping. That's often where it comes from with parenting, is that we desire a certain behavior based on our beliefs of what behavior should look like, society should look like. And so we reward or punish based on the child's behavior instead of looking at their, who they are and just celebrating them for that.

Papa Rick (33:37.936)
Yeah.

Jana Wilson (33:58.194)
Exactly.

Papa Rick (34:00.148)
It's interesting too, the way you were describing it. I got kind of a talking about being valued for your judgment or performance or your appearance or performance. That's kind of a male, female yin yang kind of concept, right? Guys tend to be valued for your... No? Cause I'm thinking guys generally are...

Jana Wilson (34:19.043)
Mm.

Jana Wilson (34:23.298)
Both. Yeah, it's both, yeah.

Jennie (34:23.744)
I felt both.

Papa Rick (34:27.456)
are judged on their worth more than their appearance, and girls tend to be... Is it a little more blended? Okay.

Jana Wilson (34:31.779)
It's individual, I think, Rick.

Jana Wilson (34:36.49)
It's individual, everybody's different. I worked with an ER doctor this summer, a woman. Hers was total performance. She didn't care anything about looks, or like it was just all overachiever performer. And we do have a mix, like Jenny said, it's a mix between both, especially when we're in school, our classmates and stuff, we see them, we compare ourselves, we...

Papa Rick (34:40.2)
Sure.

Papa Rick (34:44.988)
Total performance, okay.

Papa Rick (34:50.302)
Okay.

Papa Rick (35:00.007)
Right.

Jana Wilson (35:05.65)
You know, we want to fit in, all of that. But we were talking about abandonment for, and I wanted to share with you guys and the listeners, there's four ways we abandon ourselves. And we're talking about abandoning our inner child, our feelings, right? The first way is we get in our head. And we love to do that. We, you know, we rationalize, we justify, we analyze till we're paralyzed.

Papa Rick (35:09.948)
Yeah.

Jana Wilson (35:34.754)
We try to figure things out through, and feelings are not found in the mind. They're in our bodies, right? The felt sense is in the body. So that's the number one way. The second way, and this is mine, is push harshly and judge yourself to perfectionism. Nothing's ever good enough, you know? So I have to be very mindful to be gentle with little Jana, give her time to play and have adventure and not pressure her.

Papa Rick (35:55.368)
things ever good enough. You know, so I have to be very mindful to be gentle with little Jan, I guess, in time to play and have adventure and not pressure her. That she's okay to lay down and eat bonbons and watch TV sometimes. I don't like to be lazy or to be, like, because, you know, I was afraid to be that way because I didn't want to be like my parents who were both failures. So I pushed hard to, you know, really learn.

Jana Wilson (36:05.026)
that she's okay to lay down and eat bonbons and watch TV sometimes, right? Like to be lazy or to be, like, because, you know, I was afraid to be that way because I didn't want to be like my parents who were both failures. So I pushed hard to, you know, really not be like them. The third way is, of course, the biggest addictions. Food, substance, process, all the addictions, even positive.

Jennie (36:20.532)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (36:26.028)
the third way of course, the biggest addiction, big substance, process, all the addictions, even positive, I'm gonna run, I'm stressed out, I'm gonna just go run. You're leaving the inner child back at home.

Jennie (36:29.922)
Yep.

Jana Wilson (36:34.538)
I'm going to run, I'm stressed out, I'm going to just go run. If you're leaving the inner child back at home and going to run, you're running away from them. Going to the gym? Exactly. So you're abandoning your feelings through some kind of activity. Even meditation, oh I'm just going to go spiritually bypass this and meditate or pray over it. Yeah.

Papa Rick (36:44.304)
That's kind of an avoidance thing, right? Yeah.

Jennie (36:44.396)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (36:56.863)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (36:59.232)
Anything can be an addiction, sure.

Jana Wilson (37:01.838)
So these are also if you're doing something to avoid a feeling and then the fourth and the last way we avoid and this is a big one for society. Victim, blame others. I'm feeling this way because they hurt me and they did it and they're responsible.

Jennie (37:02.082)
Yeah.

Jennie (37:12.747)
Yes.

Papa Rick (37:14.052)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (37:17.732)
Yeah, yeah, I can't control it. I can't do anything about it.

Jennie (37:20.159)
Well, and you said something, you said something earlier, Jana, when you began this journey, when you started finding all of these healing modalities, before that you were feeling like a victim. You were looking at your childhood and going, look at what I've been through, how dare they do this to me? I was just a kid, you know, all of those feelings that people who have experienced trauma look back and have. And I've...

Jana Wilson (37:22.56)
Yeah.

Jennie (37:47.663)
in my 20s experienced that as well. And I felt so much anger towards my parents. And I just looked back and was like, oh my God, this was wrong, and this was wrong, and this was wrong, and these were all... And it was like, I was finally conscious enough to see it, even though I'd been feeling it for many years. And then I had to have this transition from feeling like a victim of my childhood, like you said.

to I read the right book or listened to the right podcast and realized like, oh, maybe I chose this. Did my soul choose this journey, choose those hardships in order to create the motivation inside of me to build what I'm building now with relational parenting, with being a parent coach, with teaching others how not to do what was done to me. And

Papa Rick (38:26.216)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (38:37.005)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (38:40.777)
Mm-hmm, something.

Jennie (38:43.523)
And so then that shift from victimhood to empowerment, to I can choose to blame and shame and hate my parents and stop talking to them and blah, blah. Or I can choose to be an adult, right? And talk to them about it, to express my feelings now, now that I have words for those things.

Jana Wilson (38:49.911)
Yeah.

Jennie (39:11.135)
Um, I can choose to move forward and step into using what happened for good, for sharing my, my now gifts that have developed from knowing all of those things. Um, and I just think that that's, I mean, he's here, he's doing this podcast. We got to give him a little couple of hands. Yeah.

Jana Wilson (39:25.718)
have to tease your dad a little. Rick you mean you're not perfect? Yeah.

Papa Rick (39:33.17)
You done?

Papa Rick (39:38.58)
When you go to school, you're going to learn things. You don't, in your book you use the term earth school. I think it was, and that's, you know, we are. I think our souls do choose maybe harder lessons. You know, we dive into something to learn. We don't know it beforehand, that's part of why we're here. And so, absolutely, sometimes you gotta wade through.

Jana Wilson (39:45.985)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (39:47.631)
Mm-hmm.

Jana Wilson (40:00.238)
Mm-mm. Who's that?

Jana Wilson (40:07.807)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (40:08.304)
Deciding to man up deciding to you know Get up get up and be an adult. Yeah, take responsibility and make it happen Yeah

Jana Wilson (40:11.214)
Take responsibility, that's all it is. Yeah, 100% responsibility. Yeah, because if you're not taking responsibility, then you are a victim. And if you look at like, you know, Cartman, he was a doctor who created the Cartman drama triangle. Are y'all familiar with that?

Jennie (40:30.179)
Is that the victim, uh, persecutor, uh, rescuer? That's the third one.

Jana Wilson (40:33.998)
persecutor, rescuer. That's right, yeah. So the conscious model of that is the victim becomes the creator because they took responsibility. At some level I created this experience, there's some lesson for me. Then the rescuer who they usually run to which in a codependent relationship would be the caretaker. Oh, let me take your cares to be a good person. I should do this for you. I should.

Papa Rick (40:40.63)
Alright.

Papa Rick (40:50.211)
Yeah.

Jennie (40:59.395)
Hmm.

Papa Rick (40:59.547)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (41:03.994)
Yeah.

Jana Wilson (41:04.074)
So now they become a coach and they look to the creator, the old victim and say, what's your responsibility here? Right? Like, what is this showing you about you? What do you need to grow and learn? And then of course the persecutor is a challenger. And listen, we all three of us know if it doesn't challenge us, it doesn't change us. It's right. Yeah, it's problems proceed.

Papa Rick (41:07.336)
Yeah.

Jennie (41:27.203)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Papa Rick (41:28.1)
You don't grow. You have to have a little pain to grow. Yeah.

Jana Wilson (41:33.518)
transformation. Crisis is an evolutionary driver. It is that way in nature. You know, we get to a point, we stagnate, no growth, and then some kind of problem creates innovation, creates the next step, right? That evolutionary process. So, yeah, it's fascinating and I read once and I love this quote, it was by Krishnamurti, the highest form of human intelligence is self-inquiry without judgment.

Papa Rick (41:35.76)
Yeah.

Jennie (41:40.451)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (41:48.91)
Yeah.

Jennie (42:04.792)
Mm.

Papa Rick (42:06.288)
That's hard. That takes practice. The lack of suspending judgment, that takes a lot of work in my experience.

Jennie (42:07.223)
So hard. Yeah.

Jennie (42:13.591)
Yeah.

Jana Wilson (42:16.438)
But imagine if the self-inquiry is to the child. Are you gonna judge the child or are you gonna accept them? Does a loving parent love the black sheep as much as the white? I hope so.

Jennie (42:28.361)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (42:28.484)
depends on where you're coming from, right? Sure, there are people who judge children, you know, quit sniveling, you know, being up, jumping the water kind of thing.

Jana Wilson (42:36.839)
But that's an adult child. We're not talking, we're talking. Hopefully the listeners are conscious and they're not wanting to. Yeah.

Papa Rick (42:41.456)
Hope, hopefully, that's right, that's right. If you catch yourself doing that to yourself and you know, when you're trying to heal, then that's just a sign there's another thing to learn. People are hard. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Jennie (42:43.659)
Right?

Jana Wilson (42:54.186)
Well, you're being an adult child, you know, so you're 50 acting five, right? You're, you see somebody doing road rage, we know immediately that's an immature person, I don't care what age they are, right? Yeah.

Jennie (43:08.083)
Yeah. Or living in e- living in ego, you can pick them out pretty quickly. Someone who's living from ego.

Papa Rick (43:08.541)
Yeah, yeah. Not healthy.

Jana Wilson (43:13.97)
Yeah, and that is the adult child, the ego, easing God out, right? Like, erasing the divine out, yeah.

Papa Rick (43:19.59)
Yeah.

Jennie (43:25.203)
Yeah. Well, and it's that protective mechanism that's like, I equate the ego to fear. Fear, I started living by the quote or the, I don't know, just the thought of the idea of, am I doing this out of love or fear? Everything that I do, any major decision, anything that I had to do, I would start holding it up against the value of, am I doing this out of love or fear?

Jana Wilson (43:44.211)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (43:54.367)
Love or fear, love or fear. And...

Jennie (44:01.271)
Ego, to me, has come to be a place of fear. Ego is a protective mechanism that keeps us safe. It keeps us from experiencing backlash or criticism or whatever. It might be that you inflate yourself through your ego. It might be that you tell yourself that you're better than any certain person or subset of people.

Papa Rick (44:12.936)
Hmm.

Jennie (44:30.663)
in order to protect your own feelings, how you feel about yourself. And so like the ego is there to serve a purpose, but it's also like, is that the purpose you wanna be fulfilling? Is fear where you wanna be living? Or do you wanna release? And in order to do that, you've gotta like accept that you're a human being with flaws. You have to accept that you are not going to live up to whatever these social, you know.

expectations are of performance or looks or achievement or doing and productivity, like all of those things. And you have to start living from the inner child. What brings me joy? And nothing as long as I'm not causing harm to another being, like nothing else matters out here. Like what brings me joy? Where does, where do I feel loved? Where do I express love? Where do I feel

Papa Rick (45:00.616)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (45:28.163)
full and capable and just like live from that place. Because ego just comes in to be like, no, don't do that. No, don't do that. No, don't do that. Yeah.

Papa Rick (45:38.096)
Kind of a risk management thing. That can be hard to get to though. People who are not self-aware, that can be a tough nut to crack to get people on that path.

Jana Wilson (45:40.445)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (45:44.409)
Oh yeah, it's very hard.

Jana Wilson (45:50.25)
Well, they can't. That's why emotional intelligence, the foundation of it is self-awareness. So, and again, like arguing for your limitation, if you continue to say it's hard, you think it's going to get easier.

Papa Rick (45:56.218)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (46:03.909)
Yeah.

Jennie (46:03.992)
Hmm

Jana Wilson (46:04.834)
So really being mindful of conscious language, like, oh, that's hard to do. Like, OK, well, it's going to be hard then. But if you say more and more, it's getting easier and easier for me to be aware of when I'm blah, blah in my ego, or when I'm, you know, then you'll catch it faster. You'll start to move through it quicker. Yeah.

Jennie (46:13.964)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (46:14.073)
Yeah, yeah.

Papa Rick (46:25.159)
Yeah.

Yeah, people, you gotta get people taking those first little baby steps and get going.

Jana Wilson (46:32.33)
Yeah, and the-

Jennie (46:32.803)
That's those stories that we tell that become beliefs. Yeah.

Jana Wilson (46:35.774)
Yes, the practice thoughts. And then, you know, in loving ourselves, like what I realized was, you know, there's the Gary Chapman's five love languages. When we're little, we know someone loves us. My granny was that for me. She would sit and hang on every word I had to say. It was as if I was the most important person in the world, right? She saw me, she heard me, she was present for me. And so...

Papa Rick (46:36.056)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (46:46.312)
See you.

Papa Rick (46:56.519)
Oh.

That's a blessing.

Jana Wilson (47:04.838)
I know that's what helped me be the woman I am today and the healer and the teacher and all the things that I'm doing is because I did have that foundation. And even though my mom, you know, put the gun to my head, did a lot of things in her messed up state, she also loved fiercely. You know, we're not all inherently bad. And so, you know, there was a lot of good with my mom. I'm a heart math teacher now. I teach about the electromagnetic field of the heart.

Jennie (47:25.003)
Yeah.

Jana Wilson (47:32.662)
When I was a teenager, I can remember my mom would come out of these hospital stints in a really higher state of consciousness. And she would have my brother and her and I hold each other and calibrate and get coherent with our heart, feel the love that we had for one another. That was a very advanced, but I was like, you know, how do we love ourselves? It's more than a Calgon bath and a, you know, day at the spa or whatever.

Jennie (47:40.381)
Hmm.

Jennie (47:48.131)
Hmm.

Jennie (47:53.368)
Yeah.

Jennie (48:00.951)
Yeah.

Jana Wilson (48:01.642)
So I broke it down in six ways. Can I share it with you?

Jennie (48:05.187)
Absolutely, please.

Papa Rick (48:06.861)
Sure. That's a very interesting learning. You had a very interesting, here's some really horrible stuff, but then here's some really equipping stuff too. Yeah, please share.

Jana Wilson (48:19.286)
Yeah, it's kind of like Rick on that note. It's like to the depths of your misery is the height of your ecstasy. I went, I was had a lot of misery. So the opposite of that was, you know, it was pretty good. So it was like, you know, you can dig into the earth and build a really high skyscraper, but you got to go deep in the earth. So to the degree that we're willing to feel our, you know, pain or existential crisis or, and not.

Papa Rick (48:26.565)
Yeah.

Jennie (48:26.797)
Yes.

Papa Rick (48:29.735)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (48:39.354)
Yeah.

Jennie (48:39.459)
Mm-hmm.

Jana Wilson (48:46.974)
and nescizize it, not numb it, not run from it like we were talking about before, not abandon it, and be with it, stay in the fire of the transformation of whatever it is, you know, and not bolt like we started this conversation with, but self-love, so number one, emotionally. Every day, every day, if you brush your teeth, I hope, while you're brushing your teeth, create a tiny habit. Look in the mirror.

Papa Rick (48:50.756)
Yeah.

Face it, yeah.

Papa Rick (48:58.96)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Papa Rick (49:06.76)
Take notes, folks.

Papa Rick (49:12.976)
Hahaha!

Jana Wilson (49:17.058)
Tell yourself, I am so proud of you. You are a good person. I am so happy I'm you. Like, I love you, I'm here for you. I know I've been pushing you hard, I'm so sorry. Please forgive me. Whatever's pouring in your heart, say it. If you've been thinking, I wish my husband or my girlfriend or boyfriend, I wish somebody would tell me, tell yourself. It's not their responsibility. So emotionally, really loving yourself every day.

Papa Rick (49:33.702)
Yeah.

Jennie (49:41.127)
yourself. Yeah.

Jana Wilson (49:47.074)
then physically. Now physically, how do we love ourselves? Well, we eat high dense nutrition. We don't overindulge. We move our body. If we're a good parent, we don't let our kids sit and eat ice cream all day and watch cartoons. I mean, that's bad parenting. So we shouldn't do that to ourselves, right? So physically we wanna love ourselves. We wanna stay healthy and moving our body. A body emotion stays emotion.

Papa Rick (49:47.888)
right?

Jennie (50:04.095)
Mm-hmm. Yep. Yeah.

Jana Wilson (50:15.79)
Third, spiritually. I teach meditation. I've been a teacher for 16 years. You know, RPM. Rise. Get up. What's the first thing you do? You go to the bathroom. You go up to your bladder. Meditate. RPM. Rise. Meditate.

Jennie (50:32.597)
Rise, eat, meditate.

Jana Wilson (50:36.43)
20, 30 minutes sitting, use a mantra, so hum is a good mantra, it means I am in Sanskrit, or you could say peace, be still, or just peace, just keep thinking the word peace. Every time the mind goes away, bring it back. Prayer, of course, being in nature, connecting to spirit, that which is beyond the senses, right? Cultivating, yes.

Papa Rick (50:37.744)
Thank you.

Papa Rick (51:01.158)
Yeah, acknowledging something greater. Yeah. And that there is something greater. Yeah.

Jana Wilson (51:06.23)
The fourth way is organizationally. Children thrive in environments that the bills are paid. You know, things are clean, things are in order. There's stability, there's structure. Absolutely, we must provide that for ourselves or we really start to spin out and, you know, it's not loving, it's unloving, it's abandoning ourselves. So organizationally, financially.

Papa Rick (51:17.064)
Stability. Stability, yeah.

Papa Rick (51:31.805)
Yeah.

Jana Wilson (51:35.03)
You know, we've got to make sure our financial house is in order. We're paying bills. We're not overspending. We are saving. We're, we have some stability in our finances. And drum roll, please.

Papa Rick (51:35.46)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (51:52.061)
We'll have to get a drum.

Jana Wilson (51:53.266)
And the last one is relationships. Our relationships mirror us back to ourselves. You know, somebody calls me and they say, I'm in a relationship with this guy and he's emotionally abusive. I know immediately she's emotionally abusive to herself. So we want relationships or teaching. There are teachers. They are the spiritual path. So if.

Jennie (51:53.673)
Right?

Jennie (52:01.932)
Yes.

Papa Rick (52:03.312)
Yeah, yes they do.

Jennie (52:14.476)
Yes.

Papa Rick (52:14.481)
Yeah.

Jana Wilson (52:21.738)
We're in relationship with somebody who's disrespectful. It's a mirror that we're doing it to ourself. Clean it up within, and then you'll let go of that relationship and find relationships that are healthy and loving and yeah.

Papa Rick (52:32.661)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jennie (52:37.239)
When you said, when you, thank you first of all for sharing those six, I think that that's a phenomenal foundation for any human being to look at and be like, how did I take care of myself today emotionally? How did I take care of myself today physically? And it's, you're right, it's not just like, take a bubble bath and feel better, cause that's not, like sure, that feels good every once in a while, but that's not self-love. That's not how you get there. But when you said, one, I'm so glad that relationship was in that list.

Papa Rick (52:49.592)
Yeah.

Jana Wilson (52:53.864)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (53:07.179)
Obviously we're very big on relationships around here. But when you said earlier that you had studied with all of these different teachers and learned all of these different pieces of what you know now, and then you were like, I want something that's all of it. I want A to Z, I wanna integrate everything, and I wanna create something that I would have wanted, you know, back when.

That's kind of, I just, I really resonated with that because that's kind of what I've done, not kind of, that's what I've done with relational parenting is I've taken the last 20 years of raising other people's children, teaching other people's children, all of the books that I've read, all of the spiritual and the healing and all of the things that I've done, all the relational work that I've done in my adult life. And I was like, and I looked at the parenting models that are out there and I was just like,

something's missing. There's not like we got to put it all together. We need to make it all, put it all in one package and teach it because you need each part. You can't just have one here and there in order to have like a really successful parenting journey and build a really successful relationship with children who grow into well-formed, well-rounded, healthy adults. And that's what I.

where I finally came up with the word relational parenting because in relationship, whether it's your relationship to yourself, your relationship to the world around you, your relationship to your experience and your thoughts, your relationship with other people, your parents, your friends, your coworkers, your lovers, whoever it might be, whatever it is, relationship determines 95% of everything in your life, how you relate.

And so teaching, you know, and part of relationships, there's spiritual, emotional, physical, all of those pieces go into our relationships. And it starts with how we relate to ourselves and then it emanates out. And so if our parents can learn, can reparent themselves and learn all of these things and then parent the next generation in that way, we can make the world a better place, as my dad would say.

Jana Wilson (55:17.71)
Hehehe

Jana Wilson (55:23.237)
Absolutely.

Papa Rick (55:25.473)
Yeah. Yeah, make a little progress, eliminate some rework.

Jennie (55:26.804)
And I just, I just love.

Jana Wilson (55:29.914)
Rick, you must be so proud of her. She's amazing.

Jennie (55:30.434)
Yeah.

Jennie (55:37.175)
Thank you.

Papa Rick (55:37.516)
I am, I am. She has done a lot of work. She had a somewhat tempestuous childhood too that I was part of. And yeah, but that's, that's right, that's right.

Jana Wilson (55:38.791)
Yeah.

Jennie (55:39.996)
Thank you.

Jennie (55:48.779)
Little T Trauma. I know, Little T Trauma. It was big T for me. You're right. It was big T for little Jenny. I like that.

Jana Wilson (55:51.89)
It was big T for little Jenny. Yeah.

Jana Wilson (56:00.812)
Yeah, yeah. Aw, it's been such a pleasure being here with the two of you. Thank you for doing this work. Thank you so much. I just, I wish I would have had a father like you, Rick. I love my dad. He was a very broken man, but I did not get that. Ha ha ha.

Jennie (56:03.915)
Yeah, yeah, I love this. Thank you.

Papa Rick (56:16.933)
Hahaha!

Jennie (56:18.063)
Yeah, I feel very lucky. I do. A lot of people, especially women that I know and I'm close to have told me how rare my relationship with my dad is. And so I cherish it very much.

Jana Wilson (56:20.423)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (56:29.84)
Yeah, yeah. We were always able to talk back to the relationship thing. And, you know, it was not perfect and it may not have been pretty, but we worked through it. You know, we were able to stick together and we learned a few things and still are. And I treasure our relationship. Yeah, you know, because this is, we're not perfect beings, but we're on the road.

Jana Wilson (56:43.726)
Hmm.

Jennie (56:43.853)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (56:52.119)
We are.

Jana Wilson (56:52.994)
Beautiful.

Jennie (56:55.487)
Yeah.

Jana Wilson (56:59.106)
We're wobby sobbing. That's the Japanese term for perfectly imperfect. Yeah.

Jennie (57:02.483)
Yes. I love that. I wrote, that's one of my little things I wrote on a sticky note while I was reading it.

Papa Rick (57:04.364)
Wobby Sobbing.

Papa Rick (57:09.984)
I'll have to get one of them. I'll have to get a painting of that, yeah.

Jana Wilson (57:11.546)
Look. Yeah, a tattoo or something now on your head. You're pointing to your head. Oh.

Papa Rick (57:16.392)
Yeah, well, another, I'm sorry, another, wait, one of the early episodes, we're doing, yeah, so I'll have to get Wabi Sabi to go up here.

Jennie (57:19.685)
His picture means beginner's mind, shou shin.

Jana Wilson (57:20.979)
Oh, I see it.

Oh, I love that. Beginner's mind. Yes. Look up a TED talk called Wabi Sabi. Ted talk. Wabi. It's a girl named Cheryl. I can't Hines. I think I can't remember last thing but she shares her story of learning about Wabi Sabi. Get some tissues because you will probably have a few tears. It's powerful though. Very powerful.

Papa Rick (57:31.468)
Okay, I will.

Jennie (57:33.162)
Okay.

Papa Rick (57:44.513)
Uh-oh. I have been known to cry at movies. So thank you. It's been great to meet you, Jana. You have such a wealth when you talk about Wayne Dyer and Deepak Chopra and that all that all just.

Jennie (57:50.277)
Awesome.

Jana Wilson (57:52.578)
Thank you.

Jennie (58:00.223)
Everybody, you got to them when they were starting, before they were famous. And I'm like, I have all of those books. Ha ha ha.

Jana Wilson (58:01.055)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (58:04.536)
Yeah, yeah. I'm yeah, exactly. Read all the books, didn't get that, didn't do what it took to get out and meet them. And that's, uh, you know, I really respect that you got out there and you're pulling it all together. You pull, you're pulling so many things together. Parents work on yourselves and save your kids a little bit of journey, a little bit of work down, down the road and make the whole thing run smoother while you're, while you're raising your kids.

Jana Wilson (58:07.971)
Yeah.

Jana Wilson (58:13.844)
Yeah.

Jennie (58:14.176)
Yeah.

Jana Wilson (58:17.547)
Thank you.

Jana Wilson (58:21.78)
Yeah.

Jana Wilson (58:32.946)
Amen.

Papa Rick (58:34.616)
It's out there. You can find it. It's not the 80s. We have the internet. It's much easier to find these things than it was when I was walking up and uphill to school both ways, you know, home and there. There's a lot of stuff out there. You can get to it.

Jennie (58:41.059)
Right?

Jana Wilson (58:42.145)
It is.

Jana Wilson (58:46.83)
Hahaha!

Jana Wilson (58:51.53)
Don't give our age away, Rick. Ha ha ha.

Papa Rick (58:54.216)
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

Jennie (58:58.484)
All right. Well, thank you so much, Jana, for being here. It was beautiful. You shared such a huge wealth of knowledge with me, with the audience, with everyone. I'm so excited to share it.

Papa Rick (59:11.556)
Yeah, good stuff.

Jana Wilson (59:11.922)
Thank you, it was a pleasure.

Jennie (59:15.155)
you. All right, happy parenting and good luck out there everybody.