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Unbound is a weekly podcast, created to help you achieve more as a leader. Join Chris DuBois as he shares his growth journey and interviews others on their path to becoming unbound. Delivered weekly on Thursdays.
Are you a leader by accident? Or by choice? Learn the difference and more with today's guest Are you a leader trying to get more from your business and life? Me too. So join me as I document the conversations, stories and advice to help you achieve what matters in your life. Welcome to unbound with me, Chris DuBois. Rahul Karim Sharma is a dynamic leader from India currently residing in Ashburn, Virginia with an MBA in human resources and a master's degree in organization development. Rahul has dedicated his life to building mindsets that achieve excellence. In his corporate role, he is entrusted with training and equipping leadership teams, while on the personal development front, he inspires others to adopt positive mind talk conversations. Rahul is the author of the action oriented and habits for miracles which are empowering individuals to embrace action, unlock their true potential, and cultivate habits that lead to miraculous outcomes. Rahul, welcome, man. Thank you, Chris, for having me on the show. Appreciate it. Yeah, this is a I feel like this one's been a long time coming for since when we first started talking about getting episode. So I'm excited to actually finally get to record one. Absolutely. But yeah, why don't we start with your backstory? Sure. So I came to United States in 2002. And, but I if Okay, let me take a step back. I want to share what has shaped me the person who I am today. And definitely education plays a major role. In my case, it was also the family background. My father worked for an Indian Government, he was having a to five kind of work, but he was so ingrained and so meticulous at his word that he always worked, went above and beyond. So that going above and beyond scum from me from him, my mother who used to be a housewife, who used to take care of all of us, and I have learned from her, how to give back, how to give back to people who are in need. If you are capable, if God has made you capable to do things, help others. So that helping approach the servant leadership approach that has come from my, my family. come from very humble background. I went for schooling in a boarding school craze. That's where I learned the art of being independent. Staying away from the family at a early age. And I love the art of being a sports person. So the good thing about in my school was we used to play games seasonally, unless and until you are a part of a college team. You know, you can play any sports as per the season. So we I played baseball when hardly any schools were having baseball during that time. I learned squash, ping pong, soccer, hockey, hockey, I'm very poor at hockey, so never got got into hockey, the field hockey, cricket finally I, I played cricket. And finally in my high school, I went into the school team, not a team, we used to have two teams, I was in a B team, I will be honest. But because we had some great players, so I didn't make the cut to a team. And that's what has brought me into the space. When I was in school, I used to spend good time in library. And that's where I get into the habit of reading. And I started reading got interested in the leadership development, personal development space, and which inspired me to do my management in human resources. And worked in corporate India for three and a half years after my MBA, Chris and then to find very exciting to do another job. So I came to states in 2002 to do my another Master's in organization development and join a very great company called collabora. I work with them since 19 years, I'm still part of their global learning and development. And whatever I have today is to be thanks to the experience I got from this organization. And I'm very grateful for the environment and the opportunity that I have received so far. Awesome. And now we get to learn from it. So where I would love to start is, from our previous conversation, we talked about the difference between leadership by accident, and Leadership by Choice, I would love to go deeper on that concept. Sure. So the Leadership by Choice is when you have a plan in place, that in two years or maybe one year, you want to be a leader, you have a mentor who is mentoring you, you have all the programs learning and development programs that you are going through to be in that role. That's where I say that is a leader by choice that you want to be a leader and you are making an effort to be there, provided the performance and everything goes by default. What I call an accidental leader, Chris is you overnight, something happened. And you have to have someone who to take that position. So the person, the good individual, good performer, but not being trained to do the leadership role. And not that he cannot or she cannot do it, but they're not being trained. And then they learn the principles of leadership, either by what they have seen. So if they had a great leader, they will become a good leader, if they had not so great leader, then they will learn those things, and probably try to implement. So that's where I call them as accidental leaders that they became leader by accident, not by choice, right. So let's follow both of those paths. As for an accidental leader, right, because you don't know if you're going to be thrust into this position, what are some things you should be doing now, to prepare in case you do have to take on a leadership position and you know, in a moment's notice, right, so first thing I would do is, do the self analyzation of who you are, as an individual who you are as a leader, who you are as a person, that is number one. So you need to know your strengths, your areas of improvements. The second thing I would say is have a right mentor, not just in your organization, it could be from outside as well, someone who can guide you, someone who has your best interest, and someone who knows you. So that is very important. And number three, I would say, whatever, when you were working as an individual contributor, if there were things that you didn't, never liked, or did not like, my request would be don't repeat those mistakes. Try to learn from those mistakes. And this for a leader, the one thing which is by default is very, very important is their relationship with people. We are leaders because of our people. So we need to spend a lot of time in nurturing and building that relationship, not just with the team members, maybe to an extended family members as well. That's what I have done. And that has helped me a lot in knowing the person. Sometimes you know, the person does not want to do something, but then they go home, they talk to their inner circle, and then they support them. Now you should do this, this is a great initiative. And the next day, I see that the person is in charge. So that happened because I was able to help or I was able to support the extended family and the extended family was able to change that perspective. Yeah, I definitely saw that with I was in the army before and the was soldiers, we were kind of charged as a leader in the military, you're charged with taking care of the families as well, making sure they have everything they need. And I never saw that at times. It was like, awesome, the family service. Thank you. Thank you for the support. I want to before I move on to talking about Leadership by Choice. Finding a mentor can be one of the most challenging things for someone, right? Because it's one it's kind of awkward to go up and just be like, Hey, can I can you be my mentor? And then there's so many people online that are like, you can pay me for mentorship. It's like, are you really a mentor? Or am I just paying you to learn something? How say I want to find a mentor? What advice would you give me for actually finding? So before I give you advice, I will tell you my journey of finding women even better when so in 2015 That was a time when I realized that I have spent too much of time in corporate America and now I want to go back and help the community. That's where I went to Orlando, Florida and had a leadership program which was conducted by Mr. Les Brown, and I participated in his workshop. And I was I have grown up with listening to his work He was listening to his voice on, you know, if you type motivational videos on YouTube, his videos will pop up. So I was very excited to be with him. And I wanted to join the coaching program. And I found out that it was a very high end dollar value. I didn't have that kind of funds that I could support being part of his coaching program. So I just left it away. But as we're still following him falling back in 2022, it was a Saturday morning and I've just got a ping on my phone. LinkedIn, from LinkedIn, Les Brown is live. And Les Brown was live. So I just normally I didn't go don't go to social on weekends. But I went and hear Les Brown was there he was talking and he was he introduced one of his mentee who wouldn't be doing a coaching program. And that individual is Dr. delito McNeil. So I listened to that one hour episode that Les Brown was having, and Dr. Del Diletto was also there. And I attended his program, it was a five day program, he really made it very economical for everyone to join in. And in five days, two hours a day, I was able to grasp so many things from him, I was able to see his heart I was able to see is giving attitude giving approach. And finally that was the mentor I chose and I signed up for his program. And because of his mentorship and coaching, the My books are out. It was his motivation and inspiration that had me pinned down my thoughts in that thoughts converted into a book. So right, so I would say is to find a mentor. So why i i went with Dr. Dell, because he was recommended by someone I like someone I admire. So that so that was one, it was not I just found him on Instagram or YouTube or Facebook. So maybe my recommendation to you would be talk to the people that you know, in the leadership arena and see if they have any recommendation for you. Because your people would know you well. And since they are common between you and that coach, they will know that person also Well, right. So that would be a good way to start. And once you get their name, you know, check them online, see if their thoughts are aligned with yours. Because it's very, very important that your party needs to be aligned when you decide to be someone's mentee, right. Yeah, I can imagine having dissimilar values makes it a little a little challenging to work together. Absolutely, absolutely. Okay, let's go now to the leaders of choice. Right. So accidental leadership, you're just the rest of them. Hey, maybe you should make sure you're preparing now, just in case. Yeah. But if you're doing this deliberately, right, you have time to prepare? What steps should you be taking to make sure you're action oriented here? Yep. So first of all, it is the leader who needs to have a plan for their team members. Because leaders know that okay, this person, I would need him or her to be a leader. So they need to identify that, okay, Chris, I wouldn't be able to make Chris a leader in maybe 12 months. So once they identify, they let the person know. And then there will be a program that is laid out. But the program will be laid out by your learning and development team is one thing, but you as an individual, you also need to spend time in learning about leadership in learning about the nuances of the first time leader, the first time manager and try to focus on strengthening your skill of building relationships with people know knowing people and go above and beyond on those horses that you have been asked to do. Just don't attend because you are required to attend, but just go above and beyond. So that is something I would recommend people doing who are being chosen to be a leader. So with that, I think we initially talked about just the need for self awareness as well right as we're anything in leadership comes down to being aware of everything going on around you and yourself. How do you recommend leaders go about building awareness? So the way I have been in my awareness crisis, one is reading, listening to podcasts like yours definitely enhances my knowledge and talking to like minded people, you need to be in touch with people who know more than you, people who are in your field, as well as people who are not in your field, you don't want to just get associated with people in your industry, you need to be aware of what's going on other places. So, my awareness, self awareness has been through reading, listening, and I'm curious learner, so every time I'm watching a movie, or watching any series, I'm learning, and I'm learning, I'm a quick learner. And I will always just the fact that I'm from learning and development, I always look things from that lnd background. Okay, what story I can pick from here that I can use in my trainings, or I watch movie I can recommend to my learner. So that's, that's just me. But these are the places I go for enhancing my knowledge. And so, like you, you obviously seem very self aware, you've been at this for for a long time, how, I guess, I don't want to praise us leaders are going to have strengths and weaknesses, right? So how can they go about identifying which of what those are for them, and then being able to formulate that plan to be able to, to improve. So definitely, for you to know your strengths and weaknesses, there are various assessments that can be done. One of the very well known assessment is 360 degree assessment, which is done by different levels within the organization. Once you know what your strengths and areas of improvement, my recommendation would be to work towards areas of improvement. And knowing that you have areas of improvement, try to take help in those areas, whenever is required. So, so one of the mistakes we do as leaders is, if I have a team member, and he or she coming with me with a problem, I have to solve that problem. That is the notion that most of us have. But they are looking for a solution, not necessarily from you. That solution could be that hey, what why don't you talk to Chris, Chris is an SME on this field, or the question that you're asking him, we will guide you, rather than I am doing not so great job, and then losing my credibility. Now, one instance will not allow me to lose my credibility. But if let's say that person is new, that person has no relationship with me working relationship, so that person is new. So I need to be cautious on those aspects. And being aware of our areas of improvement in strength is very, very important. And it is a good quality of a leader. Let's move into the power of mindset shifts. Yep. So, one, you've got multiple books, right time, habit building, becoming an action oriented, like, a lot of this comes down to being able to shift your mindset so you can approach problems better. What are your primary recommendations for just how how someone can start uncovering those mindset shifts that they need to make, in order to become a better leader hit their potential. So one of the so I answer this from two perspective, one, as a leader, if I have a team member, two for whom I need to change their mindset, I will take that scenario. And second scenario is would be as a leader how I can improve my one mindset. So what if I have to change the mindset of a team member? First thing I would do is know the backstory. If someone is having a perspective, someone is thinking in a particular way, there is a reason there is a backstory to end and being as a leader need to understand what the story is, what is their perspective, and then try to change their perspective by sharing our own success story or sharing the success story of someone else, or by leading by example. That would be one way we can change someone's perspective. If I myself have to improve my perspective. One, I need to listen better. Because many times we have that fixed mindset because we don't listen. We have our either our way or the highway kind of a mindset, which as a leader, not always right. So we need to be open to listen to others, as well as we need to be that curious learner. That when we know that there are certain areas that we need to improve on, then we need to take measurable steps towards learning on those areas so that we can become a leader because I believe Chris as a leader, we just don't We are not just dealing with a employee, we are dealing with a community, we are dealing with their families, their paycheck is getting food on the table. So we are responsible for their career, but we are responsible for their life. So there are more ownership and accountability has to come from a leader, when they are leading a team, it is just not a title. And a manager, once you get that manager title, you are 24/7 365. Manager. And we need to be very careful and mindful of what we do outside work as well. Inside work. Right. So I'm going to put you on the spot for this one. And we're going to work through like a case here. I have seen a lot of team members were just struggle with fear, right fear of getting things right, they're going to they're going to fail, they're worried about how they're going to be perceived as a leader, even if you've created a culture where like, it's okay to fail, we're gonna learn, right? How can you go about helping that team member? Just step towards fear? Because I feel like this is one of the hardest mind shifts, mindset shifts to actually accomplish? Absolutely. And I share this with response as a story, which happened yesterday. So yesterday, my nine year old son had his basketball game, so he's participating in some ugly, the good part in summer league is they don't have games on weekends. They're having games on the weekday, so we can spend weekends. So why so his team one, my son scored a basket, supported his team. While coming back as a usual practice. He asked me that, okay, how was my game? Do you have any inputs, and I was telling him that I saw that your body language was not looking confident to me. I have seen your body language when we play at home when when I've seen you playing other other places, but body language was not positive or not confident. And he said no, it was confident I said, then I shared another story about myself when I was young, and how I was afraid of when I used to play cricket, I was afraid of facing face or fast bowlers that was in my mind that okay, I will get hurt, or I will not be able to score runs, I will get out that was constantly going in my mind. And it so happened that when I spend my time with a coach, my coach told me that you are worrying about the outcome, you are not living in the moment, you are not enjoying the moment, your job is to play full out and enjoy the moment. And with that thought that I got from my coach, the next game I played, I was prepared with my mind. My mindset was that I'm confident I'm going and I'm going to have fun, I'm going to enjoy the game. And as a end result, you know, I played our full I scored maximum runs for my team I made my team won the game. And it was a different feeling altogether, just because I was feeling confident. So coming to this when someone is fear of having a fear, we need to share our stories. Whenever we all started, we all have our own fair share of mistakes. We were not perfect from day one, maybe our mistakes, maybe a different level. But yes, we all made mistakes, we all failed. So we need to share those stories that what happened to us and that is probably something will allow him to gain or her confidence that oh, he can make mistakes, okay, I can also make mistakes. And I think when you are talking about the culture, it is culture is not built by an individual culture is built by a team by a group of team members. So if the leader is saying that failing is okay, but the people sitting around you saying hey, man don't fail or fail. So it's a different story. So is every team member has to embrace that, that failure and be respectful about that individual? Right? Yeah. I want to go into accountability. Now. How do you kind of foster again, again, I guess it's a mindset as well right of accountability across your team. How do you get even the like the lowest person I'm using air quotes or everyone listen to the podcast, the lowest person, right? And even them to say like, I'm owning this, this is mine. And when they succeed or fail, they're they're willing to take that on and for the team. So in accountability as a leader, it is important for me again, And going back knowing people when I know that Okay Chris, strength is spreadsheet just for example, okay, he does well. And when it comes to his spreadsheet, he is not that great when it comes to making presentation PowerPoint presentation. So whenever there is a task, which is to the strength of an individual, they will own it, they will take full accountability. The problem happens when, why people don't take accountability because they are not confident about that particular word that you are giving to them. And that's where people tend to find ways to no pass the responsibility. So if I know the strengths of my team members, and I assign tasks according to their strengths, it will be a game changer for every leader. In our pre interview, we had a good conversation around charisma, and just the ability for individuals to develop it. So they could be they could create it themselves, I guess, what steps do you recommend people go through in order to become more charismatic. So I would say first is gratitude. We need to practice gratitude, we need to be respectful. For every and each individual. I have seen I know many people who review the title job titles, and then thing whether I need to respect someone or not, which is a very inappropriate way of giving respect or is everyone deserve respect. And walk the talk would be another aspect that I would say if you want to build your credibility, if you want to build your charisma in the organization, then you should be able to walk the target, you should be able to do what you are saying. And just not be a leader who keeps saying but does not execute. So be a leader who execute things be a real leader who gets resolved, be a leader who inspire and motivate others. These are some of the things that will allow you to build your own credibility and charisma in your organization. important advice for every leader out there? All right, Rahul, this has been a great conversation. Next question, besides your books, which I do recommend everyone give a read to actually right now, Amazon, any other bookstores to find us whenever the books are sold? Or my book festival, whatever. Awesome. So And just to reiterate, for everybody, the action oriented and habits for miracles, check those two out now separate from those two. What book do you recommend? Every leader should be reading Extreme Ownership? Extreme Ownership by it's by Navy SEAL sergeants, John, I think Jocko Jocko willing can life that is one of the few books that I have read word by word. I have I'm an avid reader, but I don't read every book word by word. But this is one of the books and the great thing about this is that it's all a story based so they have used the war situation. And then towards the end, they have mentioned the leadership lessons. So I would highly recommend that to every leader. Yeah, so quick story, right before I took company command in the army. I read that book. And and when I went in, it became very clear to me that ownership was one of the reasons why that organization and previously been failing. And so like I almost credited that book without Turn, turn the unit around. But okay, what is next for you professionally, so professionally. Right now I'm looking for avenues for me to spread my message that I've written in the book. I'm looking for public speaking engagements so I can spread my messages. I am personally looking to give back to community by sort of getting associated with college and universities. Because I believe that if habits inculcated early right habits are ingrained early, it will give them benefits long term. So that's what is next for me. Awesome. And finally, where can people find you? Oh, people can find me on social media, LinkedIn as well as on my website, which is habits number for miracles.com. They can find my contact information or they can find me with my name and LinkedIn. Or if they can just search on my book name. You will be able to find me as well as we will get all of those linked up in the show notes. Rahul, thank you for joining me today. You're in the show. Appreciate it if you enjoyed today's episode, I would love a rating and review on your favorite podcast player. And for more information on how to build effective and efficient teams through your leadership, visit leading four.com And as always deserve it