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HUNGRY is the podcast for Challenger Food and Drink brands wanting to pour gasoline on their growth. Fancy being kind? Want to feel warm inside? Please hit the Subscribe button. You’d really, really make my week.
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:51:15
Intro
00:00:52:00 - 00:00:55:14
Dan Pope
Like that was it. So I came with my, business partner,
00:00:55:14 - 00:00:59:08
Dan Pope
it was like rainy day. Like Thursday afternoon. Yes. Shit,
00:00:59:08 - 00:01:11:24
Dan Pope
We're in some boozer in the center of town. Had, like, 3 or 4 beers beforehand. And I know you say it's like a working class. Yeah. And based. We've come over the flyover, past the pylon and mate, the traffic was mad.
00:01:11:24 - 00:01:12:08
Dan Pope
I think it was.
00:01:12:08 - 00:01:15:19
Sat Bains
Horrendous because all the roads are blocked. Make up some massive roadworks all on Ring Road.
00:01:15:19 - 00:01:31:01
Dan Pope
And then you come off this ring road and you come down this little lane. And what storm was on land? Fuck are we? Go mate. And as we pulled up, the cab pulled up the front. And, you know, there was this car. I was like, you couldn't be more perfect. Police car with the blue beaming lights. It was raining.
00:01:31:03 - 00:01:31:14
Dan Pope
Yeah,
00:01:31:14 - 00:01:44:17
Dan Pope
and but it lit up all the graffiti, you know? So I was like, wow. Yeah, it's meant to be. Meant to be. And then you walk in here and I said to John is make McNally. I think I said, that's your email. That's what it is. It's like opening the wardrobe. Oh, God.
00:01:44:20 - 00:01:45:12
Sat Bains
So cool.
00:01:45:14 - 00:01:49:17
Dan Pope
Yeah. And it was just from from as soon as we walked in. It was just.
00:01:49:19 - 00:01:51:11
Sat Bains
But it's all them tiny little things.
00:01:51:11 - 00:01:52:14
Dan Pope
It's like.
00:01:52:16 - 00:01:58:12
Sat Bains
Because obviously anything in life is about detail, right? So it's like, how far are you willing to go?
00:01:58:14 - 00:01:58:21
Dan Pope
Yeah.
00:01:58:21 - 00:02:07:08
Sat Bains
But it's lots of tiny little details that make the big picture. Intent on trying to is trying to find out if there's 100 details, which you want to find. 102.
00:02:07:10 - 00:02:08:10
Dan Pope
Yes.
00:02:08:12 - 00:02:17:00
Sat Bains
Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense because it's like, where can I find another bit of detail? Oh, someone mentioned that once. Oh, that could be something we could investigate. Yeah.
00:02:17:00 - 00:02:18:13
Sat Bains
That opens up another door.
00:02:18:14 - 00:02:19:08
Dan Pope
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:02:19:13 - 00:02:28:06
Sat Bains
As long as it's not. As long as you're not bored of it. And you're still hungry. That's the key. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, sure. If any success.
00:02:28:06 - 00:02:28:16
Dan Pope
Yeah.
00:02:28:19 - 00:02:30:23
Sat Bains
Is your hunger drives you through.
00:02:31:00 - 00:02:32:09
Dan Pope
And you.
00:02:32:11 - 00:02:35:08
Sat Bains
Solve everything that's there. Yeah.
00:02:35:10 - 00:02:40:04
Dan Pope
So do you think this could work without being here? If you to keep.
00:02:40:04 - 00:02:41:08
Sat Bains
It very different.
00:02:41:10 - 00:02:41:15
Dan Pope
Yeah.
00:02:41:15 - 00:02:45:19
Sat Bains
Because what has made it is the journey of being in an obscure location.
00:02:45:20 - 00:02:47:06
Dan Pope
Yeah.
00:02:47:08 - 00:02:48:19
Sat Bains
And I think the closest one.
00:02:48:20 - 00:02:49:10
Dan Pope
So I'm on here.
00:02:49:10 - 00:02:50:19
Sat Bains
So you tell me.
00:02:50:21 - 00:02:51:05
Dan Pope
Okay.
00:02:51:07 - 00:02:52:10
Sat Bains
Perfect. Is it recording it?
00:02:52:11 - 00:02:54:24
Dan Pope
Yeah, yeah, we're rolling here. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, by the way, like.
00:02:54:24 - 00:02:55:10
Sat Bains
That, it's free.
00:02:55:10 - 00:02:57:06
Dan Pope
So. Yeah, free. So I've listened to it before.
00:02:57:06 - 00:02:59:07
Sat Bains
So the idea is if.
00:02:59:09 - 00:03:00:20
Dan Pope
You swear all that shit, if.
00:03:00:20 - 00:03:21:13
Sat Bains
It was not here, it would probably lose some of the identity of the, the vision that we've had. So because of we're here, you've probably done things that are unorthodox, whereas if I was in like a country house, you would have been limited to probably the status quo of what that was because we are off the beaten track.
00:03:21:13 - 00:03:40:01
Sat Bains
I mean, it's a bit raw and I'm working class. I'm from an immigrant family and management working class. We both love the industry, fell in love together at the age, then built this thing that we both love, that's built. It's a life, it's personal. So it's a breathing thing. It's the it's a weird thing because.
00:03:40:01 - 00:03:40:19
Dan Pope
It's an organism.
00:03:40:19 - 00:03:52:04
Sat Bains
It's an organism, yes. And the more people that come and they pass through and the do the two three years with this and they become part of it, a bit of it sticks to them. And then they go off on their journey and we've seen it.
00:03:52:04 - 00:03:52:19
Dan Pope
Yeah, yeah.
00:03:52:19 - 00:03:58:05
Sat Bains
And they become their version of it, which is I can't take credit for that. They were born it before they got here.
00:03:58:06 - 00:03:58:21
Dan Pope
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:03:58:22 - 00:04:07:19
Sat Bains
All our teams that have come in the past, we've just show them that in this obscure location, if the belief is strong enough and it is true.
00:04:07:21 - 00:04:08:03
Dan Pope
Yeah.
00:04:08:06 - 00:04:29:09
Sat Bains
It fucking was used to literally. Yeah. And I love that because it means it doesn't matter where you're from. You can still do well. So forget the pedigree. You can teach that or learn that and you can. You know my motto years ago, but I only said I know every set piece. I've always said everyone's got the potential to be brilliant.
00:04:29:11 - 00:04:52:13
Sat Bains
Yeah, in whatever their chosen field was. But as long as they're active in pursuing it. Yeah. So you can't say I want to be an artist and not do fuck all about it. Yeah, but you could be a really good artist if you applied yourself and really kind of went into that rabbit hole of, okay, my art is a bit abstract, I'm going to push out my theory of my being, of why is how I feel, blah, blah.
00:04:52:15 - 00:05:00:23
Sat Bains
And then you go, oh, that's that's original to me. And then two people might like it, but five people might not. But it doesn't matter. But you can express yourself. So that's the same as the food.
00:05:01:00 - 00:05:20:12
Dan Pope
The. So I interviewed the other week. Again, we'll get on to Rory's. This is like John Hegarty who's like advertising godfather like an absolute basically like the owl bearer of adverts while, like 82 years old and I'm still pushing. Yeah, still pushing it. Like we finished in Soho. It was boiling hot day. The case is 82 is what I'll make sure I've got another.
00:05:20:15 - 00:05:30:02
Dan Pope
I've got call with someone in, Istanbul at six. But. And he's his definition of creativity is obsessed with creativity is creativity is an expression of self.
00:05:30:02 - 00:05:30:17
Sat Bains
Absolutely.
00:05:30:17 - 00:05:35:05
Dan Pope
And it doesn't matter what it is. If you know, if you're not being your authentic self in your creative.
00:05:35:07 - 00:05:35:18
Sat Bains
It's fake.
00:05:35:18 - 00:05:36:08
Dan Pope
It's fake.
00:05:36:08 - 00:05:47:02
Sat Bains
Complete. And it's almost sitting on other people's shoulders of fakery. Yes, I say that's my version of that is, oh, that's not true. That's not you. Yeah, I can tell it's not you because it's not authentic.
00:05:47:03 - 00:05:47:21
Dan Pope
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:05:47:21 - 00:05:49:08
Sat Bains
And I think food is art that.
00:05:49:09 - 00:05:49:18
Dan Pope
Yeah.
00:05:49:19 - 00:06:14:11
Sat Bains
Food is you can taste an innate creation of a creative chef because it means so much and it makes so much sense on the plate and the palate. So yes, some things may look good for boys. And I've always said this, but yes, it should look good. We should taste better, but you won't. And eating it. So when you look on Instagram he sees beautiful paintings and pictures and all that shit looks incredible.
00:06:14:11 - 00:06:23:01
Sat Bains
You tweeted but then I looking as well. How many hands have actually made that into that beautiful thing? So as soon as you had the manipulation of hands.
00:06:23:01 - 00:06:25:15
Dan Pope
When you say motivation behind like touching it. Okay. Yeah, yeah.
00:06:25:16 - 00:06:43:22
Sat Bains
So as soon as you've tweeted with your hands to fork, yeah, yeah, there's something that's been drained through the food into your hands and gone. Yes. Because you need it to speak to the guest. So as the dish goes out, it should be peaking. So it almost like your finishing touches should be the most lightest touch. So when it goes out, you're the benefactor of the guests.
00:06:43:22 - 00:06:46:10
Sat Bains
Not me, the chef. Wow, look at that. Yes.
00:06:46:10 - 00:06:51:01
Dan Pope
You mean any examples that sink into that a bit more? Everything. Yeah.
00:06:51:02 - 00:07:05:10
Sat Bains
Everything that we do is about the finishing touch. Has to be the lightest touch and the least touching. So the guest gets the joy of seeing the mushroom tart with the little mushrooms like that just quivering in the wind. You have the air conditioning unit or whatever.
00:07:05:11 - 00:07:05:21
Dan Pope
Yeah yeah yeah.
00:07:05:21 - 00:07:22:14
Sat Bains
Yeah, yeah like that. If they were dead, they would have got the moisture would have broken to the cells and it would have gone flopped. Yeah. So because it's still shaking there's still some life in it. Yes. So you still get that lovely feeling of that was done for me. That was done for my table for myself.
00:07:22:16 - 00:07:43:22
Sat Bains
And I think that's why I have cooking so personal. And we were a small restaurant maybe I say four covers. So you got to treat each one of them passing that on to the guys in the kitchen in front of the house. It's like it's like if you get to a certain stage in Ukraine, you've done 30 odd years in the kitchen or three hours in your career, you all you're left with is knowledge because but then you've got to pass that on.
00:07:43:24 - 00:07:48:24
Sat Bains
Otherwise you've wasted all that time. So I think as lack of wine. Right. You get better with age up to a certain point.
00:07:49:01 - 00:07:49:10
Dan Pope
Yeah.
00:07:49:16 - 00:08:03:07
Sat Bains
But there's a point where your knowledge has to become your next chapter. So you're imparting knowledge to your team, but you can't be telling war stories where when I was younger, we used to work harder than you. Yeah. No one gives a shit about.
00:08:03:07 - 00:08:03:22
Dan Pope
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:08:03:23 - 00:08:23:24
Sat Bains
They're working hard now. This is their. This is their war. Torn is in a kitchen because they're going through stress. Because they're having to perform them. And to be disciplined enough to cook, they have to relate to the vision of where that dish is going to sit on that menu. And they're part of a team. They've got to almost be part of that as well.
00:08:23:24 - 00:08:47:21
Sat Bains
So there's so many moving parts. But then all I've got now is my wife for many years. We've got 70 odd years collectively is knowledge. Yeah. So how can we keep imparting knowledge. So it's still so taken on by the individual that they feel value that we're passing on some really secret bits of knowledge. Yeah. That nuggets that that by doing that and knowing that I'm going to be better.
00:08:47:23 - 00:08:55:12
Dan Pope
It feels like so it feels almost like the matrix. Right. So people need people who need to take the blue pill. Yeah. Or the sat pill. Right.
00:08:55:17 - 00:08:56:10
Sat Bains
Isn't that for.
00:08:56:11 - 00:09:13:21
Dan Pope
Well, maybe. Yeah, but it feels like I've heard you say you come here like some people will survive it. I think you said it's the the hard trodden path, the story, the least trodden path is the hardest part. And, you know, I've spoken to John and they said, like, you push people are the thing I read somewhere, it's like, if you were 5% pushing hard, it'd be intolerable.
00:09:13:21 - 00:09:26:13
Dan Pope
It's like that. You get that like you write to me almost like Alex Ferguson, if that's what I'm saying. Like you're pushing, but what? Like when what are some of the things you said? Little nuggets of wisdom that they wouldn't get anywhere else.
00:09:26:15 - 00:09:42:09
Sat Bains
It's that moves you when you're cooking. It's moves. It's like repetition is reps, right? So for example, if you like, we've got a dish on now the scallop. So you cook the scallop. It seared you then warming up to the grill under the grill. So it's just opaque. So the temperature is around 40 degrees. But you're not probing it.
00:09:42:09 - 00:09:48:17
Sat Bains
You feel it. And that's repetition. So you get to know it. So it's got to be warm. But the exterior part that you cooked is set. So it's crispy.
00:09:48:18 - 00:09:49:00
Dan Pope
Yeah.
00:09:49:00 - 00:10:03:04
Sat Bains
But not too crispy that it's gone tough because obviously the protein can get tough. Then it goes chewy. So there's tiny little bits that yeah you cut in half. So because you put it on a tray and then you've took it off the tray of the plant, you're on a train or the grill. You brushed it with burn.
00:10:03:04 - 00:10:25:14
Sat Bains
Was that no. Brown butter pinch of salt. There's going to be residual juice. That's probably a little bit add to the scallop. And some of that's in the butter. So because the chefs are working on processes you cut the scallop in half. You then expose the the flesh side. That's uncooked unsaid. So you have these two beautiful translucent bits of scallop.
00:10:25:15 - 00:10:26:10
Dan Pope
Yeah.
00:10:26:12 - 00:10:47:24
Sat Bains
But then they would brush it with again burn all that pinch salt. But yes it all goes well. Think about it. All that residual stuff on the tray tip upside down. Don't move. You've already dipped in itself. You've not brought something foreign in to dilute it. Because now, even though it's a fraction of a second, there's going to be some juices that have come out of the scallops.
00:10:47:24 - 00:10:57:15
Sat Bains
It's rested. You just dipped the exposed side into that and then put that down to the right. So tiny things like that, that's knowledge because it's happens because you're thinking about it that much.
00:10:57:15 - 00:10:58:01
Dan Pope
Yeah yeah.
00:10:58:01 - 00:11:15:10
Sat Bains
Yeah. You can't stop thinking about it because you're thinking about every dish. How can I improve? How can I improve? I can improve, but not to improve it, to get the elusive accolades from Michelin. Yeah. Whoever they are, world's best. Yeah, yeah. You want to be the best version of you. And if that means you can be better tomorrow, what are you waiting for?
00:11:15:12 - 00:11:29:14
Sat Bains
And I hate that feeling of, you know, you see, chefs and I've had chefs and person. And now they used to say back in the day, oh, yeah, when I go to my next job, I'm going to really push. Will stop there. What do you waiting for. Your next job is now. Yeah yeah yeah. And that's for everyone.
00:11:29:16 - 00:11:45:22
Sat Bains
It's like the biggest fear in life is life is very short. Right. We've got to grab it with both fucking hands. Jump on that roller coaster and then just go with it. My biggest fear is holding back because. What were you waiting for? What if you never get that chance to go on the road? Has you got fucked it?
00:11:45:24 - 00:12:05:16
Sat Bains
You've absolutely missed the block. So then if you are on the roller coaster and you grabbing it, you're going, I'm not like, good, I'm not. I'm going to go as far as I can go. I'm not letting go. But it means you're on the journey. But if you sit back, yeah, I'm going to hold a bit back. You've done the most missed justice to yourself as a trained person because what are you afraid of?
00:12:05:17 - 00:12:12:12
Sat Bains
Giving. Giving everything that you don't match. Oh, me to send it. But that's when you can perform at the highest when you've given everything.
00:12:12:14 - 00:12:32:10
Dan Pope
I think what you said before we hit record is about always being on that attack mode, never be on defense. I think there's something in that. Like even in things like when what is the roller coaster going down for you and what's what's the mind? What's been the lowest? Maybe not Covid because everyone says that, but for Covid, yeah, for Covid, like when the roller coaster is gone down, you and a man just sort of thinking, fuck me, are we going to go off off the track here?
00:12:32:15 - 00:12:48:23
Sat Bains
I think after my heart attack in 2021, I was very at peace with my mortality. So I got to a point where I was, if I died, I was happy. Yeah, I managed it and I'm saying that. But I said, you know what? Thank you for brilliant life. I was 50 years old. I've had probably the best life I could imagine.
00:12:48:23 - 00:13:08:19
Sat Bains
I've got no wants, no whims. I've done everything I wanted to do. I would've done it the way I wanted it. So I said, if everything went pear shaped tomorrow, I'm happy because I'm done. I've lived. Not that I've given all the content to get content with your mortality. Well, the rarest gift you can imagine, because you're not then chasing this illusion.
00:13:08:19 - 00:13:28:16
Sat Bains
I've got to get three stories. Bullshit. Okay, you know we're in business. Now's the time. It's terrible out there in the top, and restaurants are close in. Everyone's struggling. Everyone's going through the motions of survival mode. So my argument has always been after the heart attack, us many. This is too busy. I'm no longer enjoying working in this restaurant.
00:13:28:20 - 00:13:54:18
Sat Bains
She's okay. That's changing. So we just stopped and we did refit. We did a refit and we dropped from 200 and some stupid 20 covers a week down to 120, and we put the price up accordingly to make sure that we're still in business. But everything became quieter and everything became enjoyable again. Because when you've been doing it for so long, about 20 odd years, you think, you know what?
00:13:54:18 - 00:14:07:01
Sat Bains
Yes, it's a bit of a machine and it's good business and it's making money and everyone's there. But you've lost the whole essence of why you're doing it. So being able to do that and not having a back at say, oh no, you can't start taking up that.
00:14:07:01 - 00:14:08:05
Dan Pope
Yeah, yeah yeah yeah, yeah.
00:14:08:06 - 00:14:25:14
Sat Bains
Just sending me in here. We've got no kids. It means we can just change our lifestyle. Having that freedom is joyous because it means you're free. Yeah. So the mistakes you make of yours, the successes you make are yours. And I think that's the key. So having that freedom. So when, when you want your back is against it.
00:14:25:14 - 00:14:43:08
Sat Bains
And it could be due to staffing which is the business I think attacking is crucial because you've got to think what is everyone doing? What is the one doing. They're all doing the same there. Well, you know, sitting there going, okay Uber I you know yeah, it's a phase. They start fucking phase me three years since the restaurant trade has dropped off the cliff.
00:14:43:09 - 00:14:57:03
Sat Bains
Yeah, at the top end and most restaurants. So we've got to change that. We introduced our la carte menu last year. So little things like attacking mode attacking okay what can we do. Well we've got rooms okay. You don't need to make loads of money in the room. Let’s offer a really good package that you can stay over.
00:14:57:05 - 00:15:01:00
Sat Bains
Yeah. In this beautiful little, like, little oasis on fire.
00:15:01:04 - 00:15:02:18
Dan Pope
Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Under that.
00:15:02:18 - 00:15:05:00
Sat Bains
Flyover next to that graffiti, there's a burning.
00:15:05:00 - 00:15:05:20
Dan Pope
Car. Yeah.
00:15:05:21 - 00:15:08:00
Sat Bains
And I mean all that shit. Okay?
00:15:08:03 - 00:15:08:15
Dan Pope
The magic of.
00:15:08:15 - 00:15:10:22
Sat Bains
It. I think he's. It's it because it's real.
00:15:10:24 - 00:15:11:22
Dan Pope
Yes. Real.
00:15:11:24 - 00:15:31:01
Sat Bains
Can't get any real. It's not like, you know, I'm from Normanton and Derby's a rough and patchy, beautiful background in terms of cultural heritage and all that. But I'm not lost my touch. And I still now I'm a working class two star chef or whatever. I want to quit, but I still know my roots. Yeah, I still love cooking some of the best ingredients in the world I turn around from.
00:15:31:01 - 00:15:31:16
Dan Pope
Yeah, but.
00:15:31:16 - 00:15:49:04
Sat Bains
Then that's what this reminds me of every day. I know that I know who I am here. I'm not walking into this five star hotel where my name's on the door, but I've got to act a certain way, and I've got to wear a suit because it's all shit. I'm representing here. I'm representing myself. Yeah, yeah. You can't get any more if you never met me.
00:15:49:04 - 00:16:02:14
Sat Bains
The idea that once you get here, you got an idea of the chef. Because that was a true test of culinary, the food of a chef should be translatable through its plate. So you've got the identity of the chef. That meeting him. That's what I was.
00:16:02:19 - 00:16:04:13
Dan Pope
So good eating here before you.
00:16:04:16 - 00:16:22:11
Sat Bains
Exactly. Yeah, because you've done the research and all that and actually told you. Told me about yourself. Yeah, yeah. Give you a bell. And I think the idea for me is like the honesty and the passion on the desire to keep pushing and and not look at it like I've been here 25 years. Ten for the gas, all that ballocks.
00:16:22:16 - 00:16:36:18
Sat Bains
No, these guys are coming tonight. And you, my idea of fucking ten covers in tonight, but they still go over world class experience. Because if I took my foot off, I've done a massive Miss Justice to that customer and to the team.
00:16:36:20 - 00:16:51:05
Dan Pope
So I think one of the things I've read, as you say, like this, I've, I've got me in rich having this white belt mentality. Then you call it clean slate mentality. So every day, every podcast we do is we rip it up, start again. I don't want to be saying the same stuff, but I read all sorts.
00:16:51:05 - 00:16:56:05
Dan Pope
I want it just to be fresh. And that's why always change the environment. If I was in the studio, yeah, I would go quite.
00:16:56:05 - 00:16:57:05
Sat Bains
It'd be quite systematic.
00:16:57:06 - 00:17:20:21
Dan Pope
It's so systematic, like going I say you pick up like even speaking to John this morning, like seeing all these weird like Willy Wonka. Yeah. Like all these things add to add to the experience. Right. But I think in terms of that, because I think part of keep pushing is, is the way you keep pushing in my mind is keep wiping, slate clean or you wipe out mentality of whatever want to say is like, go back to square one.
00:17:20:23 - 00:17:24:21
Dan Pope
In the last couple of weeks. What are some of the new things you've learned?
00:17:24:23 - 00:17:29:16
Sat Bains
Say, for example, we're now in a season where it's game season, my favorite season in the world.
00:17:29:16 - 00:17:29:24
Dan Pope
Yeah.
00:17:30:02 - 00:17:56:23
Sat Bains
So we've got some really good dishes on, but they've been on probably 4 to 6 weeks. So because they've been on for six weeks, there's nothing wrong with that. And you can change dishes every three months is not an issue. But there's an element of me that thinks it's probably getting a little bit complacent because I need to now tweak a dish or change a dish, not because we're getting the same clientele in all the time, but just need to keep an element of the dishes moving.
00:17:57:00 - 00:18:01:16
Sat Bains
So there's a new element that people still feel invigorated about cooking it.
00:18:01:18 - 00:18:09:03
Dan Pope
Because, you know, you said it's like an organism. That's what I feel here. I'm ready to fit into all that. And it's and as you say, it's it's you're almost stoking it, keeping it moving.
00:18:09:05 - 00:18:32:17
Sat Bains
Because the complacency is death, as we all know, in business, being stagnant and complacent because you I think you take your foot off the gas if you if you are complacent and there's nothing wrong with tiny little percentages of complacency to say, fuck I we're busy tonight. Thank God we've got a full restaurant on the Saturday. I'm complacent for that period, but then I'm automatically at next week or next week is quiet on Wednesday.
00:18:32:17 - 00:18:54:07
Sat Bains
What we're going to do, because I can't allow yourself to be in that joyous feeling of success because success is fickle. If you stop believing in how you focus, I'm never going to be the best chef ever of the UK. I'm a mediocre chef. I'm a mediocre businessman. But the drive is 100%, drive to be better. Tomorrow is the one that's driving me the blank canvas.
00:18:54:07 - 00:19:14:13
Sat Bains
The white belt is because I still know nothing in my head. 38 years in the kitchen. Surely. Then I've got a plan myself each day and each week and each month to be better. I can't think I've got this repertoire of dishes that are all in all these books, and I can just keep going back to them. What I say to John all the time, because when we did that, that was a great dish.
00:19:14:15 - 00:19:17:02
Sat Bains
How can we do the next version of it or evolve it?
00:19:17:06 - 00:19:30:12
Dan Pope
But I also think if if one of the some of the people I've spoken to Rory is like this, staying naive as you get older. Yeah. Or getting actually getting more naive as you get older. So the more you're in it, the less you know, and also also keeps it enjoyable for.
00:19:30:15 - 00:19:46:09
Sat Bains
Vulnerability, the keeping yourself vulnerable. How do you keeps on going about by not knowing. Yeah. But if you start saying, oh I know, I know that. Yeah. No other day for cold. You know when scallops come each time they come in and we're prepping them I still scared to hold one case I rip it. Yeah, but that's because you're not complacent.
00:19:46:09 - 00:19:53:18
Sat Bains
Because you think fucking I can't do this scallop Miss Justice, but leaving half the flesh attached to the shell, I've got to make sure I do it justice.
00:19:53:18 - 00:20:02:24
Dan Pope
But Gail Ash was showing me I was having beers with him, and he was. Show me it was there. He was up here when you text him. Yeah, it was it was that here? It was here when he came up here.
00:20:03:01 - 00:20:05:04
Sat Bains
It was hilarious cause I saw it in Spain. That was.
00:20:05:04 - 00:20:06:02
Dan Pope
The. He was. I was saying.
00:20:06:04 - 00:20:08:12
Sat Bains
I think I said, why the fuck we're not thought about this because I don't know.
00:20:08:12 - 00:20:09:13
Dan Pope
Yeah. What was it just to give us?
00:20:09:14 - 00:20:24:21
Sat Bains
Basically it's a scallop shell. Yeah. You've put the scallop the flat side off. He left the bit at the bottom. And then what you've got, you take the the bro out and all the skirt. Give me a wash. And then what happens when you turn upside down. It just hangs. So you sit on the plancha. So it's a Spanish technique.
00:20:24:23 - 00:20:31:13
Sat Bains
Yeah. It sits on a bench like that. And then the scallop just touches the griddle. But then the steam creates this beautiful cooking water. Yes.
00:20:31:13 - 00:20:32:09
Dan Pope
That's what you see. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
00:20:32:11 - 00:20:49:23
Sat Bains
Then the turn it over and I put this little sauce vierge with rose pickled roses and all that shit. It. I think it's for either. For fuck's sake. We both look to the. Why? Why haven't we thought it? Yes, but again, because you're looking. Yeah. Because you're looking for that new. You're looking for the scallop. Hasn't given up all her secrets yet.
00:20:49:24 - 00:21:08:19
Sat Bains
Yeah. What do you think about that? A scallop is a beautiful piece of, protein. Right. But what if you've only scratched 10% of what is scallops available because you've not investigated it enough? So we're stupid enough to think. Yes, scallops, pamphleteer blah blah. Roasted. But that's it. I know scallops, but if the scallops that you've never even learned about.
00:21:08:19 - 00:21:27:07
Sat Bains
Yeah, or been taught about or understood yet because you've not studied it enough to say, you know, yes, you can serve as a starfish, a tartare, poached, steamed. What if there's something that you've not done yet? Yes. So surely the excitement is. I still don't know anything about you. Yeah, I can't wait to explore it a little bit more.
00:21:27:09 - 00:21:34:21
Dan Pope
It's. It's naivety. It was curiosity. It was excitement. Yeah. That's exactly. Yeah. And that's what I get from doing this. It's like a feeding of of constant love.
00:21:34:21 - 00:21:50:05
Sat Bains
Because we don't know. We don't know. Yes. We've been in this industry a long time and we've had a restaurant 20 years, whatever. But I still know nothing. So if I knew I'm not saying you'll ever know everything, but the idea is to go into the guys as I don't know anything because that's when the opportunities for learning happen.
00:21:50:09 - 00:22:09:17
Sat Bains
So if you're not knowing, you're then looking for to learn. Yeah. So that means you're open to interpretation or ideas. You're listening to youngsters listen to a front of house team or chef. If we did this that we better we've got to put it out there. You know, Amanda's vision is all about the customer service, all about the expectation mind in the kitchen or the discipline of the guys.
00:22:09:19 - 00:22:28:15
Sat Bains
But then one of them that you have to have an open and say, everybody has that accessibility to an idea. And I hate the idea of someone going, no, no, you don't know. You're a young lad. What if the 19 year old kid had the missing link to that dish you've been working on for nearly six months? Yeah, but give them the opportunity to talk about food.
00:22:28:20 - 00:22:36:04
Dan Pope
Any examples of that where that's happened? Look at youngsters come in. And you, because you've created this, as you say, this sort of open, vulnerable environment, it.
00:22:36:04 - 00:22:52:24
Sat Bains
Says but there's not specifics but there's, there's hundreds of them. Yes. Terms of how things will evolve. So we all say, okay, let's do this and we'll go, okay chef. What about that? Let's do is we need some acidity in there. So acidity back in the day. So we all going back a long time when I looked at acidity and it was like lemon.
00:22:53:01 - 00:23:13:08
Sat Bains
But then it's also grapes and wine and fermented foods and it was everything. Yeah. So acidity comes from many guises. Yeah. So all of a sudden you're not just looking at the lemon, which is what as a chef, everything. Yeah. You need some acidity. I'll get some lemon juice on there. Well hang on one. We just use something like apple juice or something like a little bit of white wine vinegar.
00:23:13:10 - 00:23:42:00
Sat Bains
Well, and all of a sudden these opportunities open because you're not looking for you're not looking for acidity. You're looking for a specific acidity because that's now umbrella. It into acidity is like the ball. And then all the, the spider graph that comes off. It is all the other acidic things that could be but yuzu and citrus. And then you've got like, you know, the sea buckthorn, then you've got vinegars and then you've got all the plethora of vinegars and you've got the balsamic.
00:23:42:02 - 00:24:09:08
Sat Bains
And then also even you can get acidity from Olive oil. So Jimmy, so all of a sudden you get all this mad range. Okay. That really would do actually I think it would work well with pickled carrot juice. Yeah. That will really go well with that sauce Jacqueline for that scallop dish because it has carrots in already or sauce, you know, I mean it's like so you're trying to open up this opportunity of looking not just down the normal barrel of ingredients.
00:24:09:08 - 00:24:17:21
Sat Bains
Say let's look left and right. Yeah. And see what else is available. But then opening up to the guys in the kitchen saying, what do you think? And sometimes some.
00:24:17:23 - 00:24:19:15
Dan Pope
Yes. That's why I like that. We need.
00:24:19:15 - 00:24:20:05
Sat Bains
A minute. Freedom.
00:24:20:05 - 00:24:34:17
Dan Pope
Freedom. And that's kind of the Narnia thing that I keep going back to is that, oh, that curiosity and wonder. And you said it. Yeah. That's kind of what I think curiosity is, is people can look at it. Some people look at this, as you say, like acidity, acidity. But as you said, it flowers into this much bigger thing.
00:24:34:17 - 00:24:35:21
Dan Pope
And that's where the fun happens.
00:24:35:21 - 00:24:36:15
Sat Bains
So often happens.
00:24:36:16 - 00:24:52:12
Dan Pope
I want to go back to the sort of, you know, the least trodden path is about path. I feel like people who come here, you know, Gareth Ward, Tom Spencer, they they come here and there's this, as you said, there's this touch of sap that goes into their work and then they create their own. Yeah. So being.
00:24:52:12 - 00:25:00:19
Dan Pope
Yeah. What are some of the hard things they learn and can only learn in this kitchen versus other. How are you different. How's the that way different?
00:25:00:24 - 00:25:05:02
Sat Bains
I think it's difficult to talk about yourself because I don't know any other version of me. Yeah.
00:25:05:04 - 00:25:05:12
Dan Pope
Yeah.
00:25:05:12 - 00:25:25:19
Sat Bains
So I'm very demanding of myself and I'm also demanding of them because I don't want to waste their time. So my biggest failing is I didn't give them enough time or effort. Okay. So if I had you as a chef and you came in with your two hands and your palette and your eagerness and your whole attitude, and I just was nonchalant towards you and I thought, yeah, it's it's okay.
00:25:25:21 - 00:25:52:21
Sat Bains
Well, I've, I've really disrespected your career path. The fact you've come here is enough for me to say, you know what? I really need to make sure you're working hard, working clean, you understand? And then after a certain period of time, which normally happens after about 12 to 18 months, some some chefs will take a bit longer, but normally around 18 months there's a click and they almost turn into the everything that you've been teaching them for that 18 months goes into that too.
00:25:52:23 - 00:26:09:22
Sat Bains
Wow. And then they start getting it. So then they start coming to you with ideas and they should put it in the same vein as what you've been doing. Whereas when they start at first, a lot of chefs will come from where they just come from and then trying to. It's because their knowledge is that and what they would do very, very normally is they'll go, well, why don't we do this or that?
00:26:09:22 - 00:26:25:10
Sat Bains
And I said, oh, did you do that in your last job? Yeah. Something similar. So I'm interested in that. I want them to look at the scallops. Langoustines as if it was the first time I ever saw one. What could you do with the langoustine if I, if you've never seen one?
00:26:25:13 - 00:26:26:00
Dan Pope
Yes.
00:26:26:00 - 00:26:42:11
Sat Bains
I mean, forget everything. You know, everything you've done. Now look at what it is. So it's a protein. It's sweet. It's fucking incredible. It can be roasted, it gets sweet. It can be poached. It can be tartar. What do you think would do that? Playing a scene. The greatest justice. And you're going to be in charge of. What do you think?
00:26:42:16 - 00:26:44:05
Sat Bains
Like for me?
00:26:44:07 - 00:26:44:15
Dan Pope
Me?
00:26:44:15 - 00:26:45:16
Sat Bains
Well, no, but.
00:26:45:18 - 00:26:46:02
Dan Pope
I get it.
00:26:46:02 - 00:26:46:18
Sat Bains
That's a brilliant.
00:26:46:18 - 00:27:01:24
Dan Pope
Yeah, yeah, yeah. What are the what are the behaviors or like disciplines when you talk about disciplines that take so they start here and end up here. And this is where the click happens. What are some of the things that they need to develop personally to get them to the point where the click.
00:27:01:24 - 00:27:02:13
Sat Bains
Is I.
00:27:02:13 - 00:27:03:04
Dan Pope
Think nervous.
00:27:03:04 - 00:27:23:07
Sat Bains
I think, is to do with, their journey to everyone's individual. Not everyone does the same, but it's about the discipline. I say is cleanliness your working methods, the way you see a chef, word tells you a lot about how they are in their career. So if you see a chef, very beautiful, clean, working systematically, everything is at the right time.
00:27:23:07 - 00:27:47:14
Sat Bains
Almost like a conductor. You see a guy in the violin, everything having notes made perfect. Sometimes they're very systematic and formulaic, but they could miss something that could be a bit maverick. So you want sometimes a bit of scruffy ness because that's you can train that out of him. But the one that was a bit more crazier in terms of the flair, you don't want to lose that because that's that's a bit of magic dust, if you know what I mean.
00:27:47:14 - 00:28:04:03
Sat Bains
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't want robots yet. You still want us to want your identity as a chef. But I still want you to put your head down and say, listen. Yeah, this is this is me. I've been taught this, but then you're going to work yourself in a way that you feel your section is individual to you.
00:28:04:05 - 00:28:21:04
Sat Bains
Yeah. So you can't have a system where it's robotic that everyone's got to work at the same start. When we change it in the two sections, the moment one of the chefs is teaching one fish, one is one the girls teach, one got meat. I know, so I'm listening to him. I'm get involved. I let's do the dishes, come up with taste in, tweak it.
00:28:21:06 - 00:28:40:16
Sat Bains
So I'm listening to a and they're saying things that I've said to them at work. They might be bored to do that, but I know that that's them passing on my idea. But they've got to find their own feet before they start doing that, because that's alien to it at the moment. Today, they're so into a new system that they've got to first find their own feet.
00:28:40:16 - 00:28:53:20
Sat Bains
So normally what happens is you normally tell them to set up how they would have set up somewhere else. So it gives you a familiarity. Yeah. So you then feel straightaway that your section, if you close your eyes you saw was there, you put his spoons to there. So you kind of get that bit go in.
00:28:53:21 - 00:28:54:04
Dan Pope
Yeah.
00:28:54:05 - 00:29:02:19
Sat Bains
And then you start tweaking them to work in a more efficient, very small space. Wow. And it's loads of tiny things like that. So if you look like the carrots and the toms or genius.
00:29:02:21 - 00:29:04:16
Dan Pope
What was guys like okay. Was it was.
00:29:04:16 - 00:29:04:24
Sat Bains
Brilliant.
00:29:04:24 - 00:29:09:11
Dan Pope
Gareth was brilliant when I started Starts here versus when he left. I've always said that journey.
00:29:09:12 - 00:29:19:04
Sat Bains
One thing I've said, and I think I'll stand for this, is I've never really taught him how to cook. I'll probably try not to think. And that's very different.
00:29:19:04 - 00:29:21:04
Dan Pope
Yeah, yeah. Because I've heard you say that a lot.
00:29:21:05 - 00:29:24:23
Sat Bains
That's very different because I want them to be obsessed with food.
00:29:25:04 - 00:29:25:12
Dan Pope
Yeah.
00:29:25:17 - 00:29:31:09
Sat Bains
I'm not interested in how fast they can fill it. Red mullet. I don't give a shit. Yeah, yeah. It's what we're going to do with the red one right now.
00:29:31:15 - 00:29:31:23
Dan Pope
Yeah.
00:29:32:04 - 00:29:48:13
Sat Bains
What we're going to do with it. What? We can do that with mullet. So it's quite oily, quite earthy. What we're can do classically serve it with a mediterranean sauce has got orange in there and carrots. Very sweet. What we're gonna do, and that's where the, the thing comes on the light bulb. I think we should do.
00:29:48:15 - 00:30:00:20
Sat Bains
Well. Yeah, that sounds good. Let's try it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because all of a sudden, that's the thinking is I don't want chefs that are just. I want all of them when they've come through the door. They're individual characters.
00:30:00:20 - 00:30:01:12
Dan Pope
And yeah.
00:30:01:13 - 00:30:19:09
Sat Bains
The different level of skill when they've left. They're very talented chefs. Anyway, I didn't give them that. They were passionate. It came in. They spent the 3 to 4 years they worked the nuts off and they've gone to fly in their own stratosphere. So I can't take credit for any of them. And I want to do that. They were already brilliant when they started.
00:30:19:11 - 00:30:24:19
Sat Bains
I just showed them this are the path, ambitions and the path was asking questions that they're not normally asked.
00:30:24:21 - 00:30:27:16
Dan Pope
What are the hard obstacles on the other path?
00:30:27:18 - 00:30:29:02
Sat Bains
On the path they're on here or.
00:30:29:06 - 00:30:32:03
Dan Pope
Yeah. And when they you show them the other path, they go down the least the least Jordan.
00:30:32:04 - 00:30:46:08
Sat Bains
Possible because there's no rules. There's no one that's done it for you. There's no one that's fucking made it safe. There's no one that's gone. You know, if you do that, do that. You'll get that. That's I don't know, I don't know, like if I don't know, how do they know. Yeah. And if they give you the milk on that path together.
00:30:46:11 - 00:30:50:22
Sat Bains
Yeah. And then oh my God we can get to that. Yeah. And it's all philosophical and it sounds all bit.
00:30:50:24 - 00:30:52:16
Dan Pope
No, no I believe in this stuff massively. Yeah.
00:30:52:16 - 00:31:09:16
Sat Bains
But this is how my creative mind works. You know, me and Amanda haven't gone down the routine of having a backer, getting the restaurant, working with someone else. That would draw me fucking mental, working with someone else. So can we get something to cut me, please? Oh, no. You go fuck off. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Listen, you country, we'll make it work.
00:31:09:16 - 00:31:30:13
Sat Bains
We'll use cash flow. We'll be clever with the fucking sales. We'll make sure that the business is looking after itself. And I think also with, with the transparency of running the business with everyone that's worked here. I'm honest, conscious. Be fucking busy today. Smells Brits fucking push the wines. You know, we've got a full restaurant. We've had a shit fucking Thursday, you know, you know you got to take a certain amount.
00:31:30:13 - 00:31:50:03
Sat Bains
So by being transparent with the workings of a business. Yeah, you're, you're working here with me. You can ask me anything you want any time of day. Chef. How do you work out the ghost buffets in the sun in that dish? Well, how did you work out the costings? And I work out this way. So then you've got a bit of knowledge, because why am I hiding from me?
00:31:50:03 - 00:32:05:16
Sat Bains
That's. This is your career. Why not give you them little bits of nuggets of information sooner? So when I was younger, at 22, someone gave me a formula on a calculator how to work out and it was the cost price times 100 share by the difference in percentage of.
00:32:05:20 - 00:32:06:17
Dan Pope
Yeah.
00:32:06:19 - 00:32:07:22
Sat Bains
Of, my masters.
00:32:07:22 - 00:32:08:06
Dan Pope
Horrendous.
00:32:08:06 - 00:32:23:24
Sat Bains
And yeah, no sudden you got a selling price at 70%. That's fucking class. So as the cost in menus at 22 onwards, knowing that the ingredients and all the dish cost that. Yeah. And if you sell it to that price. So I knew I hated my GP. So little nuggets like that. I would never been told that if I was working in the kitchen because no one known it.
00:32:24:02 - 00:32:31:07
Sat Bains
Yeah, you're the guy that worked on the ball. He's a manager. Yes. And he said, oh, this is I'll work out costings. And I come on that formula and stay with me ever since.
00:32:31:07 - 00:32:32:15
Dan Pope
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:32:32:17 - 00:32:53:22
Sat Bains
But surely you want to pass all that on. It's not just about cooking, it's about running a restaurant in tough and good times. So the good times come. We all know it's all cyclical. Our industry you have these great times where everything's fucking going great. You're fully booked and blah blah. But again you've always got to have one for large it's busy.
00:32:53:24 - 00:33:03:06
Dan Pope
What are the business principles. Because that's one of the things about this podcast is as much about the business side. What are you all at? One, two, three, six. You can't haven't.
00:33:03:06 - 00:33:19:14
Sat Bains
Got that formulaic look at it. I just look at each week and each day and I know that we've got say, 130 book this week. Yeah I know each chair equals X amount of money. I've got to make sure that we take that money. I know that, but it's so intense. Like for example, say the first few checks come in on an evening.
00:33:19:14 - 00:33:34:23
Sat Bains
Yeah, Friday or Saturday, and there's no wine pairings on it. So it just takes me to say to the maitre d, chief, what's going on this today? And it's, you know, not not hard. So just making sure that they understand the wine pairings next level is going to be important is going to enjoy better that time here is going to be better.
00:33:35:00 - 00:33:41:16
Sat Bains
And also you see a little surge. So my biggest fear if I was in here what would happen.
00:33:41:18 - 00:33:53:24
Sat Bains
If I didn't if I didn't beat that on a day. But the idea is you pass that on to you guys is that they will notice and what's going on in my notes. I didn't hear you guys mention it. Also an invoice topic.
00:33:53:24 - 00:33:56:12
Dan Pope
You know, it's always a slow, gentle attack.
00:33:56:13 - 00:34:17:02
Sat Bains
Yeah, but trouble is, you stop being like, if I didn't do that, I wouldn't sell hardly any wines that we. Or that night when the takings are down, I'm thinking shit up happened the street. So I believe it's that instant, I believe. Is that that tiny little nuance of the of a word say what's going on just triggers the person that for.
00:34:17:02 - 00:34:34:14
Sat Bains
Because I'm often there that front facing gas and you're coming here I think guys first time with this open this we've got three wine pairings. Perfect to to go with your food. If you don't if you're not, if you're driving problems got a nonalcoholic one but offer it my biggest argument right. And this is where it comes to business.
00:34:34:14 - 00:34:38:18
Sat Bains
Like you've got to allow your guests to spend money with you, right?
00:34:38:20 - 00:34:40:14
Dan Pope
Got to allow your guests. Yeah.
00:34:40:16 - 00:34:49:14
Sat Bains
You've got to because you could have a menu at one price and you could have the wine paired at one price. And that was it. So you did nothing else. So your minimum you're going to take is that.
00:34:49:16 - 00:34:50:03
Dan Pope
Yeah.
00:34:50:05 - 00:35:10:05
Sat Bains
So we offer three wine pairings at three different levels. You offer two minutes at different levels. We offer an additional course of a shoe for so you can game season. So by allowing that you allowing your guests to spend money with you because you're saying yes you, this is it. But you can also have this. And the mentality is I am here anyway.
00:35:10:07 - 00:35:25:00
Dan Pope
Is that this is where we're getting to behavioral science is all that I mean anyway, so waste architecture, it's like if you give them give them more more options per. And actually a bit of empathy is like your hey, okay. Your drive must give you this two I think made so went for the razzle dazzle which was the ballocks.
00:35:25:00 - 00:35:35:10
Dan Pope
Yeah, I was fucking twisted. When I got out of this case. I ended up in stealth in Nottingham because I used that. It was just like is when and I'm not. You fucking get night and and in some golf bar.
00:35:35:12 - 00:35:36:06
Sat Bains
Oh fuck it.
00:35:36:07 - 00:35:43:04
Dan Pope
Mate. It was good fun though. That's fascinating. Are there any other. I know you love Rory Sutherland, and he's been on next level.
00:35:43:04 - 00:35:43:16
Sat Bains
Yeah, well.
00:35:43:20 - 00:35:51:02
Dan Pope
What are some. And we were talking before, like you've done these psychological tricks or not tricks, but like hacks or, you know, one of those things is choice architect.
00:35:51:02 - 00:36:04:07
Sat Bains
Oh yeah. So when you look at I mean, you know, we've got Pirelli. So for example I'm gonna tell you a thing. So again when I look at the industry, I look at what everyone's doing. And it's something I do a little bit research on me. I don't just go on the internet and see, I want me to look at menu.
00:36:04:07 - 00:36:21:21
Sat Bains
Right. So I was noticing this outside of London, there was only three restaurants that did a two star level that did an hour of comedy. Yes. Everyone's doing tasting. So I'm thinking if you're doing tasting, I'm doing tasting. The guy in Cambridge doing tasting the golden boom was doing tasting. Why am I going to you? It's a tasting menu format.
00:36:21:21 - 00:36:22:08
Dan Pope
Yeah.
00:36:22:10 - 00:36:38:03
Sat Bains
I'm not getting anything different. As I got older. I've always looked at I can't. I found a great little three courses choice. Menu. You're not there for three hours, there for two. And you can go there. Nice bottle of red. See you later. That's going to be because I've been there 25 years. That's going to be my clientele.
00:36:38:03 - 00:36:55:02
Sat Bains
They've grown up with me. So I was there in the 50s and 60s and I was in the fall tasting menu. Yes, you might want it once a year as a regular, but two times a year they might want a shorter menu, but they got a bit more choice and they can go within two hours. So what we did is we introduced in April last year.
00:36:55:04 - 00:37:13:05
Sat Bains
So I introduce you on the chef's table and kitchen only at the 5:00 slot. So that meant if you wanted to eat early and you were a young couple with the kid, get by for babies is a bit older. Eating it was pulling you into line. Yeah, yeah. You can have your menu. You can be gone by seven seventh day.
00:37:13:07 - 00:37:33:07
Sat Bains
We really like that table at seventh day, but it's tasting menu only so you can to hit to the cherry genius. But you you where you making the loss in the business because everything has gone down. You've now hit it with two lots of the cherry. Yeah yeah yeah two things. Wow. And also the royal now this you you can never lower your price for the same menu.
00:37:33:09 - 00:37:37:08
Sat Bains
What you can do is offer a different offering at a different price.
00:37:37:10 - 00:37:37:19
Dan Pope
Yeah.
00:37:38:00 - 00:37:47:24
Sat Bains
So when we used to do a ten course and a 15 course of a seven course on the ten course, I looked at everyone in the UK, everyone's doing a number back in the day.
00:37:47:24 - 00:37:51:09
Dan Pope
When it was like a price or number of dishes. Okay, yeah.
00:37:51:10 - 00:38:14:22
Sat Bains
While the food can tell you the number of courses, well, back in the day used to be. Menu Degustation menu. Surprise menu. Gaumont. It was a name. So I went back to names. So we did menu prelude. Menu. Overture. Yes. We didn't have any courses. So that means when you look at the prelude menu on the left hand side, and there's a little box at the bottom with an additional call to the Shu Farsi.
00:38:14:24 - 00:38:36:16
Sat Bains
But then you look at and it's like that short with a little bit here, you look back, it's a full page. Yeah. For about £45. £50 difference. Okay. I mean anyway so again we saw 90% of the overture which is the bigger menu. But because you offering it the way you offering it with the right side of the paper, it looks more, you know, opulent.
00:38:36:16 - 00:38:39:24
Sat Bains
Yeah. It's a no brainer. But you're here anyway.
00:38:40:01 - 00:38:44:18
Dan Pope
There's the whole this is there. Allow your customers to spend money. But it's how.
00:38:44:18 - 00:38:45:09
Sat Bains
Obvious is it?
00:38:45:11 - 00:38:58:05
Dan Pope
It's what looks no obvious. It's not obvious what it is. It is, but it's not. And it's like the whole on the behavioral science thing. It's like price anchoring. So you put, you know, Boris talks about what they put, they sell and Rolls-Royces at York shows. Right. Because if you go on a yacht.
00:38:58:07 - 00:38:59:20
Sat Bains
You can definitely have millions.
00:38:59:20 - 00:39:14:23
Dan Pope
Yeah. And it's just because you're here to spend money. You. I don't want to buy a yacht or all of that. And it looks cheap. It looks cheap. But again, it's like, you know, the tasting menus here but actually come in. And at that, again, the context is so important. It's like you've got a kid that needs to be home at seven.
00:39:14:23 - 00:39:16:03
Sat Bains
We got a babysitter.
00:39:16:03 - 00:39:16:16
Dan Pope
You're like, you.
00:39:16:16 - 00:39:17:12
Sat Bains
Still want date night?
00:39:17:12 - 00:39:31:04
Dan Pope
Yeah, exactly. But that is no more. I've never sat across someone who thinks like that, to be honest. Me. And it's genius. And then also, I just feel like the. Yeah the you kind of by having that on what what's the other one you did the full shebang.
00:39:31:04 - 00:39:32:08
Sat Bains
So you did the prelude.
00:39:32:08 - 00:39:33:02
Dan Pope
Prelude. Yeah.
00:39:33:04 - 00:39:36:05
Sat Bains
So it's like an introduction to RSP. Yeah. You have a choice. Everything.
00:39:36:05 - 00:39:36:24
Dan Pope
Yes.
00:39:37:01 - 00:39:37:14
Sat Bains
And then vice.
00:39:37:14 - 00:39:39:13
Dan Pope
Chair everyone wants to go to that big one. Yes.
00:39:39:13 - 00:39:48:03
Sat Bains
And what was brilliant is when we did the packages in the room, we call it the triptych package, which is some of three things. Triptych. Okay. So dinner, bed and breakfast.
00:39:48:08 - 00:39:48:19
Dan Pope
Yes.
00:39:48:23 - 00:39:56:10
Sat Bains
So triptych three things. This was taken from an art constellation and Arkansas, a triptych is art paintings in three.
00:39:56:16 - 00:39:57:13
Dan Pope
Okay. Sorry. Yeah.
00:39:57:13 - 00:40:16:14
Sat Bains
So we did that. So. Yeah. Yeah. So by using that word, it was unique to us. So when you say triptych package RSP it's going to be dinner bed and breakfast. Yeah. So you're going to have three things. It's going to be a sacrifice. You're getting a discount on the room. Guess what. Includes a prelude. Hey sit down your way to the ritual 90%.
00:40:16:18 - 00:40:31:04
Sat Bains
Wait. Yeah, an extra £50 per person. But because you're offering it at that package, is getting them in at the right price point because they're looking for a bargain, because everyone is. Money's tight for everybody. We all know that. That's a real shit. Climate's out.
00:40:31:04 - 00:40:32:03
Dan Pope
There. Yeah.
00:40:32:05 - 00:40:42:00
Sat Bains
Right. We can go to our B fucking our midweek from the print to the bed and breakfast for the two of us. Yeah. Once you're here, you know what? We can upgrade to a ritual. Yeah. I'm going to have the wine period.
00:40:42:02 - 00:40:43:23
Dan Pope
All of a sudden. Yeah. They were late this year, but now.
00:40:44:01 - 00:40:46:18
Sat Bains
Chips, even now, your customers spend money with you.
00:40:46:20 - 00:40:50:21
Dan Pope
What are the ways you've done that? Because I could talk about this for days now. I love this shit, mate. It's so.
00:40:50:21 - 00:41:10:08
Sat Bains
Interesting. Like the shoe fast. You never got a little, little bowl of a cabbage with chicken mousse for truffle. Partridge. And again, it's 35 pounds. It's a supplement. But again, within this, I make it in in the front of house. I don't want wholesale. I hate the idea of shooting any throat. I think it's fucking rude.
00:41:10:10 - 00:41:34:18
Sat Bains
I don't think restaurants benefit from it. You feel ripped off. It's subtle. Oh, we've got the prelude overture. Oh, we'll go for the overture. But I really want that show you fancy. Well, I'll tell you what. I want you to get prelude shower. So you downgraded them, but they're still supernatural. They've upgraded. So this is reverse, but they're still getting into the dish.
00:41:34:18 - 00:41:35:09
Dan Pope
Yeah.
00:41:35:09 - 00:41:38:24
Dan Pope
What about getting people here? I know you've got this now. Massive reputation.
00:41:38:24 - 00:41:46:06
Sat Bains
It's not that it's still hard. It's still hard because the way you do it. Because we've got no like, media, like minds around me.
00:41:46:10 - 00:41:46:17
Dan Pope
Yeah.
00:41:46:19 - 00:41:48:05
Sat Bains
Let's put anything on, as you can see.
00:41:48:07 - 00:41:49:04
Dan Pope
Yeah. You I love it.
00:41:49:04 - 00:41:52:21
Sat Bains
Yeah yeah yeah. There's no it's not tailored. It's not been you know tried.
00:41:52:23 - 00:41:54:02
Dan Pope
To advise them yet.
00:41:54:02 - 00:42:14:18
Sat Bains
Yeah. But the idea is, is I think people can smell honestly. And when I put that shit on the internet. Yeah. And I say, guys, we've got this happening. I've got a team for next year or whatever it is or a new dish, or it could be a new one. I've got they see that I posted it. So there's, there's a level of interaction with the actual guy that's in the kitchen and the owner, it's not like a third party.
00:42:14:18 - 00:42:17:05
Sat Bains
He's been doing it because you see you see it's too polished.
00:42:17:05 - 00:42:17:11
Dan Pope
Yeah.
00:42:17:17 - 00:42:24:11
Sat Bains
So because it's raw, is that a mouthful of sad? But the my favorite thing recently is the Sat’s gamble. Have you seen that.
00:42:24:16 - 00:42:27:13
Dan Pope
That's what we were going to do. But we ended up leaving for that talk to me about that.
00:42:27:15 - 00:42:45:05
Sat Bains
So genius Mo one of my boys, he's a handsome player in a restaurant in Amsterdam called Q. Right. And I just got this star, him and George, we did a collaboration dinner with him a few months. And, I mean, John Mo was one of our boys back ten odd years ago. He worked as a young Somalia and now he's traveled the world.
00:42:45:05 - 00:42:53:12
Sat Bains
He got a job at Blue Hill Barnes in, then ball, then he went to geranium. So he's been at three stars now he's his own boss. Got some last month.
00:42:53:15 - 00:42:55:07
Dan Pope
Amazing amazing beautiful.
00:42:55:07 - 00:43:14:15
Sat Bains
Place. We loved it. And he gets that look at this showbiz page. So he buys them on auction and he puts like say it's like 30 credit charged £60. So I thought fucking I love that. So I took a picture. So I've been at an auction site. So what he does is he says it's is your risk. These are ones that 1970s, 1960s, 1950s.
00:43:14:15 - 00:43:30:14
Sat Bains
What were they all you can't guarantee they're going to be bulletproof. They are. Yeah. I'm broke. The bank. So I goes I'm going to do it. It's a gamble. So it's a page of like eight lines. I bought auction repeatable auctions. And the guys that I know that have been buying it, I buy, I get them from a knife approximately 70.
00:43:30:14 - 00:43:52:23
Sat Bains
Create 110 to make 50 of all. But the risk is yours. I can't change the wine. The risk is on. It's very, you know, it's literal on one page, but you've got 30 of the pages to choose your own one. I'm not saying all the wines and all that just is one page bit of fun. Yeah, but it's changed the game because we're getting guests last night at 100 zero Board Wine and it was still drinkable.
00:43:53:00 - 00:43:56:10
Sat Bains
They paid £180 for it, mate.
00:43:56:12 - 00:44:11:13
Dan Pope
Because. Because I want to go on. Because the other thing I picked up was, And I'll put the people watching us on YouTube. Well, I've got pictures, right? Yeah. The on what I loved about the, wine menu is it almost feels like there's a river flowing through like a, I think, or an artist or something.
00:44:11:13 - 00:44:11:17
Dan Pope
Yeah.
00:44:11:20 - 00:44:21:03
Sat Bains
He's had a john's. John's partner. Oh, really? Is one of our. Yeah. Oh, wow. Well, she heard she had an art degree, so she was my muse for years because she worked for ten years.
00:44:21:03 - 00:44:21:11
Dan Pope
Yeah.
00:44:21:11 - 00:44:38:09
Sat Bains
And I used to do so many creative things together. It's brilliant. So we wanted a unique one is there's a wine list you can have which is traditional for the ones that want the list. But this is a creativity where you say it's an emotion. So if you sing something like Rich and opulent in wines, he's going to be the Burgundies.
00:44:38:09 - 00:45:00:24
Sat Bains
It's going to be the. Yeah, the, the white burgundies, the that that's what it is, the beautiful, the creamier wines. So you have a mood. So as you flick through the wine list, you go for the crispy clean right through the fruit, driven right through to your creamy right featured light reds, mysterious, then through dark and dirty. But as you know, your style of red, you thought, oh my God, look at this.
00:45:00:24 - 00:45:05:04
Sat Bains
What price in? But the idea is it's a flow. So it's like a feeling.
00:45:05:06 - 00:45:12:10
Dan Pope
That's, that's that's it. I mean, because because obviously the guys you say the crisper wines and again I'll put this on this and the colors, all the colors will get so it's like you're it's like this I.
00:45:12:10 - 00:45:23:08
Sat Bains
Had I did it. Oh. And she, she got it to a tee. So the idea is as you're reading a wine this is and looking at a lesson we all do. But how do you make you need for a spade? How do you make it that? How do you add that creative element?
00:45:23:09 - 00:45:27:00
Dan Pope
You said you guys did a lot of creative things with some of those other things you did.
00:45:27:02 - 00:45:40:08
Sat Bains
Well, even the menu. I'll show you later. We've stopped doing the doodles now on the menu. Yeah. So the idea is you'd get a menu which was like the 15 or the ten course, and each dish had a doodle on it, which I drew. And then that would give you almost an evocative idea of what it's going to look like.
00:45:40:08 - 00:46:04:10
Sat Bains
But the sketch and then when you look like, oh my God, that's the dish. So it's trying to connect the artistic, creative aspect to the literal where you're going, oh my God. And then but then you're still trying to make sure that the dish itself over exceeds because your expectations are high. So what you're gonna think is, oh yeah, can't wait for that, for the beef cheek or whatever it is with the oysters where the taste.
00:46:04:10 - 00:46:20:01
Sat Bains
But then when you're eating it for me, how to get a sandwich flavor into something like that? Because all I've got from you as a guest is your anticipation and expectation. Yeah. If you've not eaten it before, you're really going to search your history of where you've had that dish or somewhat similar before. How do I see this?
00:46:20:01 - 00:46:44:15
Sat Bains
I want to make it more punchy, seasoned perfectly, really exciting to eat, but that's layers and layers and layers of flavor. You've heard about this before, but never like this. Yes, and that's the skill of the chef of the chefs. Yes. How do we get it to something so small, be so intense. And that's where the skills of cooking comes into it, because I'm competing with every other restaurant in the world on it.
00:46:44:16 - 00:46:45:13
Dan Pope
Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah.
00:46:45:15 - 00:47:00:22
Sat Bains
When the guest walks in here, it doesn't matter to them what we're doing in there. And they want to be blown away. So the guests that we get are true traveling foodies, per se. Yeah, but why else would you come in? It's fucking.
00:47:00:22 - 00:47:04:01
Dan Pope
Shit. Oh.
00:47:04:03 - 00:47:08:15
Dan Pope
It's so good. But I don't know if that adds to the juxtaposition of it because I feel like.
00:47:08:15 - 00:47:09:03
Sat Bains
Oh, Denise.
00:47:09:03 - 00:47:19:10
Dan Pope
This is what I can't describe. But I've been stressed. It was just it is all those things you've said. It's just wild and it's this, I don't know, this is a it's a feed, an energy.
00:47:19:10 - 00:47:19:16
Sat Bains
There's an.
00:47:19:16 - 00:47:25:07
Dan Pope
Energy. I think describing it as an organism that you just sort of just keep moving, keep kind of like just pushing just.
00:47:25:07 - 00:47:26:06
Sat Bains
Tweaking it just keep.
00:47:26:06 - 00:47:40:10
Dan Pope
I think like chipping away at what is. So I believe that you can become more creative. Yeah, I really believe that. So you know, I say a writer like write every day and I feel like almost I know you got Jim talk motherfucker. Right. But you know, like say it's how you do in bench press. Yes. And you do like.
00:47:40:13 - 00:47:53:02
Dan Pope
And so you get to ten, right? Yes. And you're fucked. Yeah. And then you do it. You got to spot it helps. Yeah. And then you do a bit of a drop set and you just you almost, it's almost like that progressive overload. What would you say that is in creativity. Like how do you push your guys.
00:47:53:04 - 00:48:09:19
Sat Bains
Different now because you're using the gym as an analogy. Right. It's a very good idea. So whereas I would do say max weights whatever the word bench press and you could smash it and you were solid and you could do it clean form again, technique driven. You don't want to rock. You want to make sure everything's stable. You've grounded.
00:48:09:21 - 00:48:34:12
Sat Bains
And he did a beautiful rap. But as you get older you don't need to do the heavy weight. You just need to perfect your technique. So as you do less reps or less weight to it, stricter, have a little rest at the bottom, squeeze out so you're tweaking your mental state with the training, also with the work so your creativity doesn't have to be like fucking wow, now you're almost honing it in.
00:48:34:12 - 00:48:58:02
Sat Bains
Say, I really need to put a lot more creativity into that area because I think the customers experience can be better. So then Amanda will come into that because that's her forte. But then it's again going back to expectation because you've got a creative mind, that means you've got to be fucking wild. It means you can then hone it to a certain dish, a certain style on a certain minute, certain season.
00:48:58:04 - 00:49:02:01
Sat Bains
A certain element of a dish is there to nuance, like the pizza.
00:49:02:03 - 00:49:03:05
Dan Pope
Yeah. Oh, that was bang.
00:49:03:05 - 00:49:27:00
Sat Bains
Oh fuck yeah. But again, it's a, it's an ideology that's born from trying to be uniquely different, not for the sake of it. To give you something gustatory. That's easy for me. You wouldn't believe this right after receiving the mail to take you out to this little piece of hope, you get a glass of champagne, and this piece is cooked on a menu to order by Anna or the guys, and you're sitting there for the fuck's up in here.
00:49:27:00 - 00:49:33:00
Sat Bains
I've just. I've stretch my legs up, you know, I'm not seeing the table three hours. I've had a bit of a rest of walked around.
00:49:33:00 - 00:49:42:14
Dan Pope
What I liked about that is there's another couple. I don't know if that's even better, but there was two. There were two of us. So then then we were discussing the main salad. That adds to the magic, that adds to the connection. This connection is connect.
00:49:42:14 - 00:49:44:09
Sat Bains
Restaurants were always about connection.
00:49:44:09 - 00:49:48:00
Dan Pope
Yes. Nice. So the way you think, where you think is so genius.
00:49:48:03 - 00:50:10:01
Sat Bains
But it's not the genius is is not having the clouded judgment of having a mentor because you're free. You can think freely. Yeah. And I think that's probably my biggest attribute because I was allowed freedom. And we've built this business on freedom because we can do whatever we want, whenever we want. There's no one telling us what we can or can't do.
00:50:10:03 - 00:50:26:12
Sat Bains
Imagine that. Yeah. And imagine a business where it's tough. Buy them or allow you know that. But you still have freedom. You're not you know, you haven't got that shackles on say you don't really want to do that, but I'm held back because I don't know how I'm going to pass it through the board.
00:50:26:12 - 00:50:27:22
Dan Pope
Yeah. Oh, God. Yeah.
00:50:27:24 - 00:50:28:15
Sat Bains
You'd be screwed.
00:50:28:15 - 00:50:38:19
Dan Pope
Because that's why with this is because I work for a company. We had had a board interview, one I was like, do whatever the fuck I want when I want, I don't want investors. I don't want any of these things. I'd rather make less dough.
00:50:38:19 - 00:51:00:22
Sat Bains
But that's the that's that's the key, right. Well, you you've hit on the head. We run this business on a model where we we don't need a lot of money. For me, in the end, yeah, the reinvestment is crucial and the staff need to get paid really well. And we do the four day week since 2015. Yes, you have lost some money, but the investment was so good that return was greater.
00:51:00:24 - 00:51:18:10
Sat Bains
Yeah. So they are loyal. They stay with you three years. They grow with you. You put them through the exams for the SATs. You see them grow, you see them fly. So. So I've always said, if you ever going to leave us, never go sideways or down. Always go up. So I'll help you. So I've been me three years.
00:51:18:10 - 00:51:22:07
Sat Bains
I'm not Charlie. One of my boys is back now. He is all chef. I've been believe three years and he.
00:51:22:07 - 00:51:23:09
Dan Pope
Was ten years.
00:51:23:11 - 00:51:45:10
Sat Bains
He went to Benin. Yeah, that was a tax. So a friend of mine, since I. And he was there. Yeah he went to Amsterdam and now he's back as a senior. But to see him grow as an 18 year old when he started and now he's got all that beautiful knowledge of traveling experiences. Now he's an asset and now he's part of the senior team that he's running the kitchen with this.
00:51:45:12 - 00:52:02:05
Sat Bains
That's a joy to watch. Yeah. You know to see people flourish and grow as youngsters that I have a dream of one day hopefully having their own restaurant. But this is a blank canvas to them because they can ask me what the one they can ask me, how do you get the deal? Was that you? Do you know, how do you work on supplier?
00:52:02:07 - 00:52:04:03
Dan Pope
So when you say deals, as in.
00:52:04:05 - 00:52:11:04
Sat Bains
Sound of Deals, don't I love fucking deals. I love dealing with suppliers. I like to do barter. Yeah, because I'm from that era.
00:52:11:08 - 00:52:11:15
Dan Pope
Yeah.
00:52:11:18 - 00:52:29:19
Sat Bains
So if something's costing me so I'm going to get spring lamb and it's like 21 pound a kilo for the loin. I'll say I got 800 kilos. I'm gonna prep it or get it beautifully seal in the freezer or wherever I want to put it for that season. I'll fix the price so I'll get 19 menechino. I guarantee I want to take 100 kilos.
00:52:29:21 - 00:52:36:09
Sat Bains
They go and then I'll say, fucking two. Panic. Yeah. That's massive. Yes. You know caviar. You know I don't use caviar now.
00:52:36:11 - 00:52:36:22
Dan Pope
Why?
00:52:37:02 - 00:53:01:08
Sat Bains
Because it's the biggest scam. Go on in the fucking world, right? Oh, and it's all farmed, which we know has to be legally. It's all probably from the same place in China, but it's on every fucking menu. It is so overrated. I've banned caviar right? Since March, and I'm not used to it because it's no longer. I will use it again when it becomes the star of the show.
00:53:01:10 - 00:53:20:11
Sat Bains
Now, every dish is a beautiful. They say you've got some beautiful asparagus that should be the star. Yeah. Now you had a big dollop of caviar. You've lost the identity of this very place, and that's now become second rate. The star of the show was asparagus. You've just smothered in caviar. Then the. Oh, yeah, that was nice. The caravan ballocks.
00:53:20:13 - 00:53:29:21
Sat Bains
But every restaurant's using so much of it, it's a truffle sideband, truffle and caviar in March, so I'm not using it until it's in its peak. Why would.
00:53:29:21 - 00:53:30:05
Dan Pope
You not use.
00:53:30:05 - 00:53:51:20
Sat Bains
Truffle? Because, again, speaking to a legend like Pierre Kaufmann and I have been in chat with him one afternoon, I guess, chef, when you were out in the kitchen. And even now, when is the best time for truffle liqueurs? Watchful. Now. November summer. Watch out for black truffle January. So I'm like well yeah you don't use it.
00:53:51:20 - 00:54:16:03
Sat Bains
So that's when I said his peak is ripeness. It's available from October November and they're on all menus. But again going back to you know I've got brilliant suppliers like Wiltshire Truffles and and 25 caviar. I'm not stacking them off but they have an obligation to tell it when I say speak. So if you're buying it at a peak you're buying an inferior product just to put it on the menu.
00:54:16:05 - 00:54:34:16
Sat Bains
And then I'm taking the piss out. Use a guess because I'm not giving you the best truffle. And when I put it on in January it'll be the best truffles I could have afforded at the best quality. You're going to have it as a celebration of truffle. How this is that you wouldn't serve fish at season. Why would I do that with the truffles.
00:54:34:16 - 00:54:49:04
Dan Pope
It's I love the because what I what I'm picking up me as we're getting deeper into this conversation, you've got all this wonderful creative freedom, energy, generosity. But then the other side is this sort of hustle, working class deals.
00:54:49:06 - 00:54:49:12
Sat Bains
Like.
00:54:49:12 - 00:55:06:06
Dan Pope
What have you. I'm actually like Rory Southern says, I mean, the best MBA is either being a kitchen porter or working in a newsagents. I know you really newsagents. That's the reason. Yeah, exactly. And the reason he says this is back, you know, that's the thing actually I was speaking to both.
00:55:06:06 - 00:55:07:09
Sat Bains
MDA and MBA.
00:55:07:09 - 00:55:23:24
Dan Pope
He's like a fucking wanky business, you know, like basically what comes out. Sorry, I shouldn't said that, but yeah, but, I'll take that out. But it's by everyone, so I've got an MBA, so you do it. Oxford. Basically. It's after university. You got an MBA. It was meant to teach you about everything, about business, everything. So you do it, and then you basically go, and it's just a wanky thing.
00:55:23:24 - 00:55:39:03
Dan Pope
Basically. The reason Rory says kitchen porter or newsagents is because so often in business you see things in silos. Yes. So it's like I just do accounts or I just do marketing or I just do supply chain or I just do.
00:55:39:05 - 00:55:39:24
Sat Bains
Talk to each other.
00:55:39:24 - 00:55:43:10
Dan Pope
Well, yeah. But when you're in a newsagents growing up, you see everything.
00:55:43:12 - 00:55:55:22
Sat Bains
We say like this because this is how you see everything. Yeah. So it's like the two biggest areas of a business in a restaurant is the phone. So calls coming in.
00:55:55:22 - 00:55:56:03
Dan Pope
Yeah.
00:55:56:07 - 00:56:00:18
Sat Bains
And the booking system and bills going out. So if you can control them.
00:56:00:18 - 00:56:02:11
Dan Pope
To have meals or bills.
00:56:02:11 - 00:56:02:24
Sat Bains
Bills.
00:56:02:24 - 00:56:03:11
Dan Pope
Bills.
00:56:03:13 - 00:56:21:03
Sat Bains
So for example say I'm in charge of purchasing at the restaurant. So what I do is I've worked out for each cover how much we've got to spend on you. Yeah, that's your limit for that day, that week. So if we've got 100 covers and say it's like £20, just let's make it up. You've got WhatsApp under 200 people, £20.
00:56:21:03 - 00:56:23:13
Sat Bains
That tune was that to rent. What was it for.
00:56:23:13 - 00:56:25:12
Dan Pope
Yeah. Yeah. My, my yeah yeah yeah yeah.
00:56:25:14 - 00:56:42:19
Sat Bains
So said that's your limit. So I'll give John a budget of 140, 150 bucks. Sorry. Your budget's 10 pound ahead. That's what you got. So the his go now because he's a what the word when you're, when you're, competitive. Yeah. You want to go under.
00:56:42:21 - 00:56:43:13
Dan Pope
Yes.
00:56:43:15 - 00:57:00:08
Sat Bains
You don't want to hit the target. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. Genius calls coming in. We do have calls coming in because everything's online. Calls coming in is where you lose and get most of your bookings. So for example, someone rings or you ring in the restaurant. I like to table please. So I fully booked.
00:57:00:10 - 00:57:02:19
Sat Bains
Oh I got in there. Sorry, mate, but.
00:57:02:21 - 00:57:04:09
Dan Pope
What the fuck's out about. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:57:04:09 - 00:57:13:21
Sat Bains
The reason you rang. So you want a table? So I'm going to give you a table when you haven't. We haven't got your table you want. But I've got to give you opportunities for other tables.
00:57:13:21 - 00:57:15:06
Dan Pope
Allow them to spend money. Yes.
00:57:15:08 - 00:57:26:10
Sat Bains
Wow. I'll tell you what. I'm going to set it up. I've just got a table. This that just come available, but I can do it. 2:00. I'll take it. How obvious is it?
00:57:26:12 - 00:57:28:21
Dan Pope
You're. Oh, no. No, it's.
00:57:28:22 - 00:57:30:00
Sat Bains
It's I never lost the sale.
00:57:30:00 - 00:57:31:19
Dan Pope
Is uncommon. Common sense.
00:57:32:00 - 00:57:33:07
Sat Bains
That's a good one. I used it.
00:57:33:07 - 00:57:35:03
Dan Pope
Before. Yeah, I think uncommon common sense.
00:57:35:06 - 00:57:51:11
Sat Bains
Because you've sold the table. Yeah. It's then could ring in someone's hand. I really want to know. And that's where the arrogance comes in. That's where successful restaurants get complacent. Going back to complacency because they think, well, fully booked me, fully booked if I got 20 tickets fully booked. Okay, well duh. I want to spend money with you, you fucker.
00:57:51:12 - 00:57:52:07
Dan Pope
Yeah yeah yeah yeah.
00:57:52:07 - 00:58:12:09
Sat Bains
You just said no. And that's what happens with there's a, there's a thing called the, the reception is it could be a dentist, doctors or a restaurant. They think they run the fucking restaurant. Yes. Then what the do they do that I like to book a fucking filling. I want to book a dentist appointment. Sorry. Fully booked. One, two, three months.
00:58:12:11 - 00:58:22:14
Sat Bains
I know that fucking. I own that place. Answer that. He squeeze me in because fucking three in a quid. The power they think they've got. So they need all retraining.
00:58:22:16 - 00:58:25:20
Dan Pope
How would you, how would you retrain. Because this is, this is really the.
00:58:25:20 - 00:58:26:07
Sat Bains
Way you can.
00:58:26:07 - 00:58:34:19
Dan Pope
Go I think. Okay, fine. Another thing again, sounds like, you know, the thing Rory said is why why have we lost the ability for people to pick up the phone.
00:58:34:19 - 00:58:35:12
Sat Bains
Because they're fucking.
00:58:35:12 - 00:58:49:10
Dan Pope
An Amazon? You know, Amazon, you can actually still pick up the blower and which is fucking wild. That's not like the other day I got stuck on. It's just the most infuriating thing being stuck. And then you'll see some dweeb picked up the phone, and, you know, it just. But it's not.
00:58:49:15 - 00:59:06:16
Sat Bains
So far removed from the business owners. Yes. Model. And and the business owner is in business because he wants state money, create a business, pay. Make profit pay that's devised by staff is the basic necessity, right? But you ring light, you ring a doctor's surgeon or a fucking dentist or a restaurant.
00:59:06:16 - 00:59:06:23
Dan Pope
Yeah.
00:59:07:03 - 00:59:07:16
Sat Bains
And the restaurants
00:59:07:16 - 00:59:25:17
Sat Bains
are busy. And you ring them and say, I, I really got time for 230, please. Next we. Oh, almost like they're pissing themselves laughing at you. I'm sorry. Fully booked. Are you going to do now? Sorry, sorry. Thanks. Hang on. Mobile. So I want to spend money with you. Give me an opportunity. That's a different day.
00:59:25:19 - 00:59:33:01
Sat Bains
That's as close to me becoming one of your clients and taking my money off me. Yeah, I'm not ringing. If you want to hear the fucking. Whether it's.
00:59:33:03 - 00:59:34:04
Dan Pope
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:59:34:09 - 00:59:55:01
Sat Bains
And I think this is so infuriating when I, when I see and I mean Amanda always use the same terminology. Doctors, receptionists, dentists, receptionists. That's the message mentality because they're so far removed. So yes, one way is you could give incentives but fuck incentives. That's their fucking job. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey. Well yeah. Look after him. Tell him how important that call is.
00:59:55:04 - 01:00:12:06
Sat Bains
Yeah. And then the second part of that is the spending of the money. All these guys are accountable for anything they spend money on that. So all the Amazon accounts I get to sign off, see what they bought before I. So yes, they're not allowed any credit cards because I've got it. So I'll give them a credit card if they want to buy anything.
01:00:12:08 - 01:00:19:21
Sat Bains
So you controlling the expenditures and you're controlling the calls coming in. So money in money out what how them to.
01:00:20:00 - 01:00:27:16
Dan Pope
I was like the booking online is you know the online systems. Now how is that is that how is that change things for good bad and ugly.
01:00:27:18 - 01:00:32:13
Sat Bains
In fairness, being brutally honest, you probably want a bit of both.
01:00:32:15 - 01:00:33:04
Dan Pope
Yeah.
01:00:33:06 - 01:00:48:07
Sat Bains
We open the office from 10 to 4. That's for someone wanting a query. Yeah, we don't take the credit cards over the phone because we want to stay away from that. So there has to be done online. So there's a lot of security. So that one on my head. Yeah. So you will have to book online with your card.
01:00:48:07 - 01:00:58:00
Sat Bains
Yeah 50 pounds deposit. Nothing crazy. But that just gives the security to the gas and security to us that no rogue member of staff is taking credit cards on the phone. Yeah. I mean.
01:00:58:00 - 01:00:59:08
Dan Pope
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, actually.
01:00:59:10 - 01:01:08:03
Sat Bains
But the idea is you want a bit of both. You want someone that's fed up on the internet can't get through. Hey, I'm really struggling. Oh, Tom friend. Oh thank God, thank you again. It's that opens.
01:01:08:03 - 01:01:18:15
Dan Pope
Up to another thing as well is, you know, as a one allowing people to spend money but opening up who's going to spend the money. So if you've got an old couple, they want to get on the blower. Yeah.
01:01:18:16 - 01:01:21:21
Sat Bains
Some young I don't know how to use the internet.
01:01:21:23 - 01:01:26:00
Dan Pope
Right. None of us want to book here. It's just not what the fucking libraries do. I mean, it takes time.
01:01:26:01 - 01:01:41:22
Sat Bains
To make sure that someone's there to help them out. Yes. Walk them through it. Yes. But everything has gone that way. But if you look at it from a busy place, you know, our storing restaurants, a lot of it might be on open table where it's from, but you can still get through some of your table next, next Thursday.
01:01:41:22 - 01:01:56:17
Sat Bains
And the really busy ones I find are the ones that sometimes are my snooty because they're just so complacent. So you've almost got to like that. That guest is bringing some fucking fuel and money to your business to keep it going.
01:01:56:21 - 01:02:05:06
Dan Pope
The organism. Yes, yes, like this is sick. So back to the newsagents. Yes. And your old man, what was your relationship like with him growing up?
01:02:05:09 - 01:02:19:23
Sat Bains
Yeah, it was hard very hard. I had a really hard upbringing. I was working from the age of like ten, eight, nine, ten when it was in the shops, and I know I can't knock. He gave me a work ethic that was brutal. You know, I started I'd go to the shop in the mornings, do the paper rounds with him.
01:02:20:00 - 01:02:20:24
Dan Pope
Do the round he shops.
01:02:20:24 - 01:02:23:03
Sat Bains
We have it mostly with three.
01:02:23:03 - 01:02:23:15
Dan Pope
Yeah, the.
01:02:23:15 - 01:02:25:04
Sat Bains
One I used to work. I was the main one.
01:02:25:04 - 01:02:25:20
Dan Pope
Yeah.
01:02:25:22 - 01:02:49:18
Sat Bains
And then I'll do paper and go school, come back a lunch, relieve my mum so she can have a break, have my dinner, go back to the shop, finish at ten. So I do paper on at night as well. So it was something from the age 11 till like 16. I don't begrudge it but it work ethic. But he was also you know he was he was absolutely on the ball.
01:02:49:20 - 01:03:07:18
Sat Bains
He knew in the shop what everything moves. And he was a he had a really sharp eye and I'm nice to see deals of time. Right guys come in for cans of beer. Didn't have the money for you charging maybe extra tax either came south single cigarets at £0.10 each so you get an extra creative pack. So, you know, I've kind of grew up with all that kind of around me.
01:03:07:18 - 01:03:08:14
Dan Pope
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:03:08:15 - 01:03:25:07
Sat Bains
And I think with, with restaurants. So the way I look at it right. You've got a restaurant, I've got a restaurant. But doing the similar makeovers. You and my business. The butcher's here. Yeah. He wants our business.
01:03:25:09 - 01:03:28:04
Dan Pope
So we're both butchers there. We both compete for beef.
01:03:28:04 - 01:03:28:15
Sat Bains
I've used it.
01:03:28:19 - 01:03:29:22
Dan Pope
Okay. Yeah, sure.
01:03:29:24 - 01:03:54:17
Sat Bains
But I'll say to him, okay, I'm going to use this much beef this year. I want a fixed price. You'll just buy it every week. So I'm ready in advance, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've looked at it long term as a business. I've looked at him like me. How would I want? And if I said if I had a gas engine installed for a gas and Sam would spend five grand with you a year, can you offer anything in advance?
01:03:54:17 - 01:03:58:15
Sat Bains
Yeah. I'll give you one meal free, because I'll guarantee five grand in.
01:03:58:18 - 01:04:00:05
Dan Pope
Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.
01:04:00:05 - 01:04:01:02
Sat Bains
It's a little.
01:04:01:04 - 01:04:07:07
Dan Pope
Now but me, it's getting this sort of. We've gone into the creativity up here. But the underworld is all this, this beautiful hustle.
01:04:07:07 - 01:04:20:22
Sat Bains
And the reality is the business. Without the business you've got nothing. The creativity is great, but not on its own. Yeah. You need them to feed off each other. You need the money coming in to fuel the creativity. And you need the creativity, the fuel, the money coming in. Yeah. So it's completely cyclical.
01:04:20:24 - 01:04:26:12
Dan Pope
What other lessons did you take from the newsagents? I like the it's the MBA work.
01:04:26:12 - 01:04:26:19
Sat Bains
It was.
01:04:26:19 - 01:04:27:23
Dan Pope
Just constant work.
01:04:27:23 - 01:04:51:12
Sat Bains
Cash on carries. And you know, also I thought you can work very hard at a very young age. It's not going to kill you. Yeah. And it's and it's about applying yourself. You know I had no choice I couldn't go I'm not going. Is your family I had no choice. And I always remember this is a really this is a this is probably the hardest reality I learned, but the most beautiful.
01:04:51:14 - 01:05:13:24
Sat Bains
So I worked for one month solid because my dad went to India. So me, my mum would open the shop. I looked after it when school to that point, but for a home. He came back and bought me a bike. So I was like, oh my God, Christmas time, I've got a bike! And you didn't get too happy of sack to people that's you're not doing their runner.
01:05:14:01 - 01:05:28:22
Sat Bains
So the joy of the bike was so great. But then it was wiped out from India because now I'm on wheels, I can do more work. So he save money on TV. Plus, because I never got paid. So you think about that logic. It's genius. You.
01:05:28:24 - 01:05:30:08
Dan Pope
I think my 100.
01:05:30:13 - 01:05:40:22
Sat Bains
Family. You don't get paid? Yes. You're the son. Bless you. Dad, that's your mum. You've got three sisters and you work in the shop. But I thought fucking I've got a bike and I always wanted a bike is a rally. I'm not.
01:05:40:22 - 01:05:45:06
Dan Pope
That's a prime example of you as a kid. Creative. If it's a business. Business face creativity.
01:05:45:11 - 01:05:45:22
Sat Bains
Yeah.
01:05:45:24 - 01:05:46:16
Dan Pope
Fucking genius.
01:05:46:16 - 01:06:01:16
Sat Bains
It's probably a lesson I learned very young without knowing. Yeah, but then when I. When I hustle with caviar, you know, I'll also back in the day, I'll say this and I'm on a buy 50 kilos of his 100 kilos this year. I want to fixed spice. And, you know, they'll say, yeah, okay, but don't tell anyone else.
01:06:01:18 - 01:06:05:06
Sat Bains
Someone to tell him I'm the benefactor.
01:06:05:08 - 01:06:07:10
Dan Pope
That's true. Yeah, it's so true.
01:06:07:12 - 01:06:23:09
Sat Bains
You can probably not do it as much, but there is a way he didn't allow. Oh, so I'll barter with 3 or 4 different fish suppliers for the same fish. You know, I'm getting some tidbits. One wants 39 ones. 32. One's fucking 29. I've got to then look at the quality of each one. Is that guy reputable? Is that one better?
01:06:23:11 - 01:06:45:20
Sat Bains
And then probably go for the middle one because I know it's going to be guaranteed. But the boys. Because the thing is that you don't learn as a young chef is you've got buying power. Yeah. You don't know yet because you just times what you spent that week times 52 or 48. That's your budget with that fishmonger and the and you're going to say, you know, I'm starting to spend quite a bit of money with you.
01:06:45:20 - 01:06:51:01
Sat Bains
There's got to be something you can shave off. Yeah, we're all in business. There's nothing wrong with bartering.
01:06:51:01 - 01:06:59:14
Dan Pope
Mate, so fascinating that the sort of the business side. What else have you learned? Any other principles you've learned about hustle? Lost a lot of hustle because I think there's I think.
01:06:59:14 - 01:07:11:16
Sat Bains
Hustling is probably innate in everything we do. You know, when we looked at the four day week was perfect example. So I but how I mean, Amanda works I wrote looking for the same staff.
01:07:11:18 - 01:07:13:22
Dan Pope
Looking for the same same staff. Yeah.
01:07:13:24 - 01:07:34:24
Sat Bains
We're in this situation where we're all doing this five day week. We're all looking for the same members of team to join us. Is that restaurant, that store, one store, three store. So there's a pool of talent, but we're all not offering anything different. We're just saying you want to work for us. And I hate that whole fucking concept of, yeah, that that'll work for you because it's all ballocks you've got offering something, you've got to offer incentive.
01:07:34:24 - 01:07:58:20
Sat Bains
And there it was. We are going to open a four day week in an office top salary, and you are going to have three days off. All of a sudden. We never have to look for staff again for that period, for that three, five years, because what they realize is that can do five days a week that I'm getting somewhat similar to what I'm doing for four days, but I've got three days off.
01:07:59:01 - 01:08:09:17
Sat Bains
So this is where psychology kicks in. Back in the day, you could do a four day week, but the restaurant could open six days. Yeah, say you're on the fish right. And it's your day off.
01:08:09:21 - 01:08:11:15
Dan Pope
Yep.
01:08:11:16 - 01:08:32:15
Sat Bains
You know, someone's coming in tomorrow to do your section to cover you, and then you're coming back in two days time. First thing you do on your day off. Your last day off is about 3:00 in the afternoon. And same with your wife, your kids, whatever it is you start worrying about tomorrow. Not I see maybe that fish sauce on a one more texted chief.
01:08:32:16 - 01:08:52:02
Sat Bains
What? We're going tomorrow. Have you made that fish sauce? What's my mise en place this morning? So you're no longer off. You are mentally at work now while you're off by closing, there's no one can do anything. You finish on the Saturday night. You're not back to Wednesday. No one's on your section. No one's running your, prep kitchen.
01:08:52:04 - 01:09:01:15
Sat Bains
You have now got complete freedom in your mind that you're not going back to a Wednesday to no one's on your section. So psychologically, you're free.
01:09:01:17 - 01:09:06:23
Dan Pope
That's your house to say. Because you might be looking at so true, like physically free versus psychologically.
01:09:07:00 - 01:09:21:17
Sat Bains
Because you're halfway through your day off, your second day off. You're already thinking about work tomorrow. Yeah. What you tend to do is, share a bit about text and see whoever is on my section. What's in tomorrow? What do I need to do? What? Yeah, yeah yeah yeah, yeah. You ready? Go.
01:09:21:19 - 01:09:22:14
Dan Pope
You're not getting a break.
01:09:22:15 - 01:09:25:07
Sat Bains
No, of course you're not. That means you're two days now as well and off.
01:09:25:09 - 01:09:30:10
Dan Pope
So you almost look at the competitor said yeah I say that's what that's, that's what these guys are doing.
01:09:30:13 - 01:09:43:16
Sat Bains
Well, on the same time we all got the same supplies. We've got same, you know, methodology of running a business. Why not. No we haven't, we haven't. You know, I've got friends, I've got multi-million-pound back. I don't give a fuck because they have got to worry about it. But you know, I mean that's right.
01:09:43:17 - 01:09:46:07
Dan Pope
Yes. Yeah.
01:09:46:09 - 01:09:52:23
Sat Bains
I think being slightly afraid each week, walking into work, not knowing what's going to happen keeps you on your toes.
01:09:53:03 - 01:09:54:00
Dan Pope
Yes.
01:09:54:02 - 01:10:17:09
Sat Bains
You need that nervous energy to run a business because without it, again, the words we could use in complacency. Comfortable. They're okay in small doses but you start utilizing them a lot. Your nervous energy disappears and then you lose the edge, the edges. Fuck no I don't know how I'm going to get through this week.
01:10:17:11 - 01:10:19:00
Dan Pope
The excitement of it as well.
01:10:19:03 - 01:10:21:18
Sat Bains
It excites you. But I think the nervous energy is covered there.
01:10:21:18 - 01:10:37:21
Dan Pope
That's what I'm saying, because I think I think nerves and excitement are kind of two sides of the same coin. And you and you can flicker between the two. It's interesting. So we saw when I, when we came up here before and we were doing all our planning for next year, and we basically looked at our PNL that we done and it was like fucking squeaky bum time.
01:10:37:24 - 01:10:55:08
Dan Pope
It was like, read all this, client's response. Be lost. I'm really thinking fucking. That was kind of, you know, we're talking about these. Yeah. Shortly is when you look back and looked at that since. Yeah, a year ago. And I was thinking, oh my God, like that was a roller coaster going down. And that nervous energy, it was like, right when we sort this out.
01:10:55:08 - 01:11:00:04
Dan Pope
Yeah. And then, you know, we ended up getting doing a deal with a breeze. So it's just like it comes out. But that energy that.
01:11:00:10 - 01:11:01:23
Sat Bains
I think is out there in the ether.
01:11:01:24 - 01:11:02:12
Dan Pope
Is.
01:11:02:18 - 01:11:09:14
Sat Bains
That ether then hears it and it gives it your back because because you've put it out there, you've put your nervous energy out there.
01:11:09:16 - 01:11:10:09
Dan Pope
And it gives it back.
01:11:10:09 - 01:11:12:12
Sat Bains
To you. I think it gives it back. Okay. So I believe that I.
01:11:12:12 - 01:11:29:16
Dan Pope
Really yeah, I, I so I want to talk about creativity and where it comes from. You're right of Rick Rubin. He's he's a music producer. Yeah. Yeah yeah. He's a fucking G like he did Red Hot Chili Peppers. Adele is not amazing. And his whole thing, he's got a book called The Creative. Creative Page or something.
01:11:29:21 - 01:11:47:17
Dan Pope
And it's all these little, parables of that how to be creative and just it, it's beautiful. But one of the things he says and it kind of does link to the actually does electricity goes through the pylons. And that's a really stupid thing to say. Yeah, okay. But he basically says like, creativity is like this electric electric force, right?
01:11:47:17 - 01:12:04:19
Dan Pope
And it's it's a bit like, you know, the frequency of when back in the day when you're like trying to tune into the radio. So need to and you tune in and he basically says, this is an energy and fucking force all around us. And the job is to basically open yourself up to allow the creativity to come through for you.
01:12:04:19 - 01:12:09:15
Dan Pope
Do you believe you go to creativity or it kind of comes to you? Like, how does that how do you think? I think it's.
01:12:09:15 - 01:12:15:08
Sat Bains
In the ether. I think it's there. Yeah, you can probably go into anatomy as you please.
01:12:15:10 - 01:12:16:14
Dan Pope
Yeah.
01:12:16:16 - 01:12:34:16
Sat Bains
Sometimes you have a mental block and you know that it's going to be alright because you know that eventually you get to the right place. Yeah. So you're trying to think if there's a sticking point of, of the business or dish or whatever. I do know that in a matter of time, I don't know how long the time is.
01:12:34:18 - 01:12:51:20
Sat Bains
You'll find the solution. So that's probably come with time over, over the years. Yeah. So whereas before I was really desperate to think of that creative gene or whatever you want to call it, that's across in kind of boxes in a box where that's no longer there, it's, it will it will come. Yeah. It will come back in.
01:12:51:22 - 01:13:15:24
Sat Bains
It'll work itself out. Because you're thinking in that vein. Yeah, it almost likely bleeds into it then just comes back. Yes. So it's a different feeling for myself than the frequency. It's more, it's probably just thinking out of the box is thinking differently. So hence me doing all my research is why is everyone following this path? Why is everyone doing the no other call?
01:13:16:00 - 01:13:29:09
Sat Bains
Why is everyone, not thinking of change the many from seven and ten? Cause why is everybody not letting allowing the guests spend money with them? So when you sort collating all of that information, it's a lot of it's what is why why are they why they're not.
01:13:29:10 - 01:13:33:24
Dan Pope
Yeah. It's almost like why do you study, why everyone's zigging and then you zag and it's.
01:13:34:00 - 01:13:55:10
Sat Bains
It's almost like, why? The sheep analogy is the one that's most infuriated. You know what? Why is everyone just follow that? Why does everyone just do that? Why is not why doesn't someone open like like in Nottingham. Like they've got another restaurant. One of our boys, he's got the same book he should open when we're closed.
01:13:55:12 - 01:13:57:15
Dan Pope
Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.
01:13:57:15 - 01:14:05:21
Sat Bains
Yeah, he should open. When's it? Monday. Yes. We're closed on him. On the Tuesday he should have. Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday.
01:14:05:23 - 01:14:08:21
Dan Pope
May is is uncommon common sense me but like.
01:14:08:23 - 01:14:27:08
Sat Bains
That's your is your business your business model. When we're open let's not compete. You open and you open I'll open. Open. And we hit the whole seven day market. But you can't tell anyone that because I think you they don't know what you're talking about, because it's like we're not fucking our nice because it's not. Well, may Thursday night, the busiest time.
01:14:27:10 - 01:14:41:15
Dan Pope
Show me your mate mates. Mind. Let's put on that for a bit longer. There anything else you think again? It's sort of that zig zag thing when you just look at what's going on and then you're like, right, I'm just going to go and do something completely different. It doesn't have to be about the food. It could be, yeah.
01:14:41:17 - 01:14:42:16
Dan Pope
Anything really.
01:14:42:18 - 01:15:06:16
Sat Bains
Yeah. So so we don't open lunches very often at lunch. And again, trying to concentrate where the business can make the revenue is like, why be a busy fool? So you start opening Thursday Friday. So we all open now. Chef's table and kitchen bench Thursday Friday lunch which we used to back in the day. And what that does it capitalizes on a really good market for small table.
01:15:06:18 - 01:15:13:10
Sat Bains
We're here anyway. They can spend money with it anyway. Yes so it's a new angle to get all the staffing.
01:15:13:12 - 01:15:14:03
Dan Pope
Yeah.
01:15:14:05 - 01:15:41:03
Sat Bains
Just open it for an exclusive table. They feel special. It's only for them. The boys in the girls look after them in the kitchen and the smell. You feel like $1 million because you've got your own private table in the kitchen. And it's a cost, a premium. But that means we're not kidding ourselves trying to do 30 covers for whatever it is for another many on a Saturday Saturday, the only day we open lunch and it's again, we offer that of course, on a Saturday again for them that want it.
01:15:41:05 - 01:16:06:18
Sat Bains
But again, majority probably go for the tasting menu. But again you're it's looking also at your access points. What is your accessibility in. So now I said accessibility which is 145 pounds. But then we twisted it again. Now I accessibility is 50 pounds had for breakfast. So a few months ago we now open for breakfast for three tables.
01:16:06:20 - 01:16:25:06
Dan Pope
Right. Is that the end of the principle which is our sister. It's really instances are eight. It's the 8020 rule. So it's about 80% of your revenue or happy happiness comes from 20% of your activities okay. So oftentimes you'll probably be people won't even realize, but they'll wear like 20% of their clothes. 80%.
01:16:25:06 - 01:16:26:09
Sat Bains
Yeah, I know that one. Yeah I know.
01:16:26:10 - 01:16:43:00
Dan Pope
Yeah. And it's the same with making money. So this I'll send you okay. I'll send you really fucking interesting and I, and you basically look at your business and there's almost a long tail of, as you say, being a busy full. Yeah. And that's an I'm, I'm, I get so excited by new stuff. And that's kind of what we've been doing.
01:16:43:00 - 01:16:44:16
Dan Pope
Like, why the fuck are we doing that.
01:16:44:16 - 01:16:45:06
Sat Bains
Makes me it's.
01:16:45:06 - 01:16:59:17
Dan Pope
Like we at one point I was like, right, I'm going to create this thing where we produced hundreds of other podcasts for other people and then was like to me was on like, why would you do that? Because that stops me having this conversation. Yeah. And then and I was looking at the money that was coming in. It was literally fuck.
01:16:59:17 - 01:17:09:07
Dan Pope
Oh yeah. Yeah. And and what we're trying to do is like sever the severed the tail of the snake. And I suppose that's what you're doing is like three tables for breakfast. £50. Yeah. Most people simpler in.
01:17:09:08 - 01:17:20:20
Sat Bains
Well guess what. That's 47 grand there. Yes. For no extra revenue on staffing a little bit. Ingredients. But you've nearly made 50,000 on your bottom line.
01:17:20:24 - 01:17:21:19
Dan Pope
Yeah.
01:17:21:21 - 01:17:23:11
Sat Bains
For fuck all.
01:17:23:13 - 01:17:25:12
Dan Pope
And then you put it up, sell them of the experience.
01:17:25:12 - 01:17:28:01
Sat Bains
And then they can have champagne. They can have Bloody Marys.
01:17:28:04 - 01:17:28:19
Dan Pope
Yeah.
01:17:28:21 - 01:17:47:07
Sat Bains
So the cost for breakfast is 50 pounds. There is add ons wouldn't you. Won't. Yeah. That's up to you. If you're driving you have a coffee unlimited. But the point is you're looking at your business from a really again looking at it from an opportunity point of view is like breakfast is like now the entry level. Now for a two star restaurant, it's £50.
01:17:47:09 - 01:18:06:02
Sat Bains
I can go for two Michelin star breakfast and it's expensive, but it's world class and it's two courses. You can have your starter than your main, whatever you want, and you're sitting in this lovely environment. You're being looked after by the bowling team, and you've got these three tables and a table six and a two on Sunday that booked in externally.
01:18:06:04 - 01:18:31:15
Sat Bains
So we can do seven bedrooms. That's four, that's 14 cupboards already. So there's your seven tables gone. Yeah 11 tables in there. So we can do four. We keep it three. So there you go. You've got your fucking extra revenue for no extra cost. But you're offering something unique that Nottinghamshire hasn't got. Yes. Or the closest one to is if you look at even further, where's the nearest two star hotel?
01:18:31:17 - 01:18:32:23
Sat Bains
It was Lebanon.
01:18:33:00 - 01:18:33:18
Dan Pope
Yes.
01:18:33:18 - 01:18:37:06
Sat Bains
There's nowhere else. The nearest north is Andrew Valleys.
01:18:37:11 - 01:18:38:08
Dan Pope
Yes.
01:18:38:10 - 01:18:40:01
Sat Bains
There's nowhere else.
01:18:40:03 - 01:18:50:02
Dan Pope
There's a mate. It's mad like I know I love doing these because you just on all these unexpected things. But there's a real, like, business. There's like an MBA here. Like, I don't know.
01:18:50:02 - 01:18:54:18
Sat Bains
The business bit is the one that keeps me the most aggressively active.
01:18:54:20 - 01:18:55:07
Dan Pope
Yeah.
01:18:55:09 - 01:19:09:18
Sat Bains
The kitchen bit's easy. That's the creative. The business bit is a one that if I take my foot off this, this is the one I'll shoot myself. Go fucking. I never saw that. Why didn't I say why the fuck am I sitting here waiting for this shit to happen? When everyone else is doing the same? I've got to attack.
01:19:09:20 - 01:19:19:20
Sat Bains
I've got to change. What a move. What a pivot! I've got it. We've got to do something because it's not working. Yeah, it's. As soon as you get to that point, things stop ideas and you brainstorm with the guys. Okay, guys. What?
01:19:20:01 - 01:19:22:23
Dan Pope
What is what what are some of those monsters that just came out of nowhere? And I finally.
01:19:22:24 - 01:19:26:16
Sat Bains
Have a call when I went down on a call 15 is. Yeah, we haven't done it.
01:19:26:18 - 01:19:29:05
Dan Pope
Now, but, I mean, the monsters that you like that you.
01:19:29:10 - 01:19:44:21
Sat Bains
Well, you know, when when business is shit. And if you look at what happened, I noticed business dropped off after the Ukraine war. I can look at my figures from the last from 2007. I've still got all my Excel sheets and I fill them in every week. I fill in the covers and I fill in how many reach each section?
01:19:44:21 - 01:20:05:06
Sat Bains
How many three quarters. And I do that religiously every Wednesday from the following week. And that keeps me on my toes. And what's happening. So then I looked at the drop and I noticed the drop. Covid, as you know, was a honeymoon period. And then the the war kicked in. The the energy crisis kicked in. Everyone shit themselves.
01:20:05:08 - 01:20:32:00
Sat Bains
You never recovered versus never recovered. So what, you think, okay, there's less people out there. They still come in. But how can we take more revenue? And these are the things that keeps me away to them. Like to give me example right? You can't just put the price on shit. People go fucking up £50. I had more. So what you do is you go, here's your seven course, here's your ten.
01:20:32:02 - 01:20:39:24
Sat Bains
I'm going to rename them, add a couple extra courses, put them all £50. Not one person glitched. That will generate 140,000.
01:20:39:24 - 01:20:41:17
Dan Pope
Yeah. And that was just the renaming.
01:20:41:17 - 01:20:43:01
Sat Bains
Renaming it.
01:20:43:03 - 01:20:44:09
Dan Pope
Genius.
01:20:44:11 - 01:20:50:00
Sat Bains
But it's not genius. It's. It's being proactive in a very hard environment.
01:20:50:02 - 01:20:50:17
Dan Pope
Yeah.
01:20:50:19 - 01:21:15:14
Sat Bains
Because I can't put the price of £100 ahead because people will they won't they won't pay. There's a limit what you can charge for the value and and the perception and the preconceived idea of how much it's worth. And that's what I think people have got to feel value for money. Hence what we do here. The course in the garden, the last one in the kitchen, having the cigar or afterwards if you want a drink, you don't have to have a cigar.
01:21:15:14 - 01:21:28:19
Sat Bains
You can have a drink in the aftermath of a coffee. So you've made it more of an escapism. So there's actually lots of things to do here. Rather than just sit at a table for three hours and then go home. You've made an adventure.
01:21:28:21 - 01:21:44:18
Dan Pope
I wanted to. On that note, I want to talk about the systems of of sort of the magic. So I went out, had a cigaret. Andre. So this has got and, obviously I've had my like, let's add a couple of beers and sat out there fucking bang the barn and come out as I'm gonna go for cig.
01:21:44:18 - 01:22:01:05
Dan Pope
And then, a walk in walks me to this to the. So. Oh, do you like that? I do, so do you like 90s old school hip hop? But I was like, I, I fucking love, like, Wu-Tang clan and all that stuff. And, he was, oh, I just you like that? And then suddenly, out of the blue, Biggie Smalls comes on.
01:22:01:08 - 01:22:18:04
Dan Pope
Yeah. And I'm not having to say, like, I'm a G and I'm in this hot. And it was just, like, the sickest thing ever. But what so but but I know not, you know, I've sat in the kitchen this morning like there's a lot of sort of systems behind the scenes that facilitate this sort of magic. You know, you've got sort of cameras where you can see what's going on.
01:22:18:04 - 01:22:27:04
Dan Pope
What are some of those things that like almost if we want to go backstage? I feel like this is a theater, as you said. What backstage? What are the things that people won't know is great?
01:22:27:04 - 01:22:55:13
Sat Bains
That it's difficult, you know, because they're all being amassed over a long period of time with you. So it's the tweaks, they're tiny little tweaks over a long period of time, and the tweaks are going to be significant enough that it's the customer's expectation that you're addressing is that when you walk in now to the restroom, into the bar, and this is the front door that used to be, and we look back and say, what the fuck are we doing?
01:22:55:14 - 01:23:07:22
Sat Bains
It's just probably because the way we were, you'd open the door the opposite way and it would straight onto this fucking fucking high bench with a book on it. So there was like a barrier.
01:23:07:23 - 01:23:08:19
Dan Pope
Would you make its way? So.
01:23:08:19 - 01:23:16:10
Sat Bains
So you walk as you walked in the front door. Yeah, yeah. Used to open the other way so the door would open. Yeah. It was facing the toilet.
01:23:16:10 - 01:23:16:24
Dan Pope
Yes.
01:23:16:24 - 01:23:34:21
Sat Bains
And then there would be this block of wood in front of me, which was a like a whatever. It was like a fucking desk. And you hear the book Alexandra come out. So. Matt, look at that shit. It was been there forever, and it was purposeful. You should have a phone on there. A little book on there.
01:23:34:24 - 01:23:54:19
Sat Bains
When we say bookings on the phone. Yeah. So when we stopped taking bookings by phone, she was. It's just so shit. Because we want the experience to be if you're staying over, especially if you know when you go on a holiday and you're going to a resort and you go, they take your bags, they sit you down, they give you a drink, and then you fill in the little form and they say, hey, welcome to the restaurant.
01:23:54:19 - 01:24:12:10
Sat Bains
Here's a little drink on us. But then the door now opens the opposite way. So it's open. Yes. You open opening to the restaurant? Yes. She made that lovely little desk. So when you look at this lower, you sit down and someone's there to greet you. There's a bell. So if you're that table to please, it's for the guest.
01:24:12:10 - 01:24:36:00
Sat Bains
Then never. Yeah. You press the bell, someone comes and takes you back to your room. This is Mr.. Mrs. Jones. So these kind of tiny little journeys. Because Amanda loves role play in the restaurant scenario of guests coming in once, a bit awkward, having to deal with it. So she plays that a lot to make sure that they get used to crazy questions or crazy requests and the things we've all doing, things we want.
01:24:36:01 - 01:24:45:21
Sat Bains
So example, if you check in check ins at four alleyways, all three, and even before that, we're not ready to move over to clean. So you'll come into a half set theater.
01:24:45:23 - 01:24:46:13
Dan Pope
Yeah.
01:24:46:15 - 01:25:02:18
Sat Bains
So there's options. There you go. Oh, how are you going to deal with that? Guest walks in. It's 3:05. We're not ready for another hour. Hey, guys. How you doing? Oh, can I just drop my bags off? Yes, you can, but we're not ready. So you got to. You want to deal with that scenario, right? So it's how you do it.
01:25:02:18 - 01:25:21:03
Sat Bains
So yeah, of course you can. I'll tell you what. You can have a sit in the hot. I'll get you a drink. I want you nip into town and get your taxi and check in from 4:00. You can get about quarter. So you've addressed all their words they're looking for. Say, why can we come in now? Why can we go anywhere?
01:25:21:03 - 01:25:48:19
Sat Bains
It's 3:00. We've traveled three hours. Yeah, because what you don't want is to upset someone. That's on the way to have an experience with you. So you've got to match their expectations with information. And the information has to be given in a nice, clean way. So there's no misinterpretation. Because if you came and you came with your message and you, you been excited to come and you've been years ago and you love it here, but you've missed on your confirmation check ins at four and you've had a horrendous journey from Wales.
01:25:48:21 - 01:26:09:17
Sat Bains
Five hours. He's a fox. He's in an hour. Let us in. So there's got to be things we can address. But soon it might get in the garden. Let's get you a drinks list. Check is not to a full. So you're trying to manage expectations all the time. And that's part of the restaurants. That's what restaurants do. But it's how you do it.
01:26:09:19 - 01:26:30:05
Sat Bains
So, you know, someone came in a day that they had a walking stick in a wheelchair. We didn't know. But you got to be clever. You make sure that no one's in the restaurants make a fuss. You move the chairs around quickly. Everything's done. We've got these chairs like this, but we also ordered six without these because it's going to be larger guys.
01:26:30:07 - 01:26:31:00
Sat Bains
Loads of people.
01:26:31:00 - 01:26:31:16
Dan Pope
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:26:31:16 - 01:26:40:09
Sat Bains
So once they're in the lounge, you see them. You know what table they're going against. What the chairman. So as they walk through the set on a normal chair without being.
01:26:40:09 - 01:26:42:00
Dan Pope
Embarrassed, it's just empathy.
01:26:42:00 - 01:26:48:09
Sat Bains
It's a real you here this. Yeah. Restaurant restaurant restaurant is restoration in it. That's the that's what it means.
01:26:48:09 - 01:26:50:12
Dan Pope
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's the people. Yeah.
01:26:50:14 - 01:27:09:04
Sat Bains
Feeding them, making them feel nourished to go on their way. So if you look at the base instincts of a restaurant, yes, you can be fucking arrogant. You can be this. You've got to manage expectations, especially if people haven't been here before. They don't know what to expect. So by being friendly, a smile, a welcome, you automatically onside.
01:27:09:04 - 01:27:27:20
Sat Bains
If you're not sorry, is your name down and you like that. And then they go, yeah, mama's actually booked it. It's not their name. You're already fucking alienated as soon as you walked in. Yeah, I mean already something to me and Amanda loads of times in the past where, you know, you've gone into a restaurant. Think I fucking one of you that,
01:27:27:22 - 01:27:43:02
Dan Pope
Yeah. It's worse. I mean, the ones I hate about that are these sort of East London make that these East London fucking bakeries, right? Oh, really? You've got these hipsters and they look at you like you're just a piece of shit who's walked in. And I'm not. I don't know what to say to the company. There's loads of them in East London.
01:27:43:04 - 01:27:57:24
Dan Pope
They're all, like, wearing these things like stupid hats and shit. And you basically get put there. I'm not gonna have a coffee and a croissant, and they've got a thing of questions at the front and there's that does like, do you have that available? And she looked at him going, no, clearly not. I mean, I.
01:27:57:24 - 01:27:58:22
Sat Bains
Was not in his.
01:27:58:22 - 01:28:13:23
Dan Pope
Justice ministry then. I was standing there waiting for a coffee like, say, they're making a coffee because can you wait out there? So then I went out there like that, like in a pan of like like a little sheep. Independent fucking hipsters. Yeah. I don't want to be there. And then there's Colette, your name. And it's just the whole thing was just.
01:28:14:00 - 01:28:15:04
Sat Bains
It's not a junior favor.
01:28:15:04 - 01:28:17:23
Dan Pope
It's just. Yeah. No. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm giving you my money. Yeah.
01:28:17:23 - 01:28:29:23
Sat Bains
This is what, going back to the fucking dentist reception. Yeah, yeah yeah yeah, yeah I know if if the owner was, then the owner was the businessman behind it. He love people coming to his coffee shop. Bakery. We're going to call it.
01:28:29:23 - 01:28:30:18
Dan Pope
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:28:30:22 - 01:28:33:03
Sat Bains
The arrogance doesn't match.
01:28:33:05 - 01:28:39:21
Dan Pope
That is so interesting. Like any in East London, there's, there is this sort of arrogance to the restaurants. It's like, yeah, you're coming to me, man. Like it's just I.
01:28:39:21 - 01:28:41:01
Sat Bains
Think that's probably just youth.
01:28:41:02 - 01:29:01:08
Dan Pope
Yeah, yeah I think it is. There is that kind of I get that kind of energy. Obviously there's some absolutely stunning and wonderful places where there is that kind of cut and it's and it's it's fascinating. What are some of the I just want to push more man. This role in this side. Yeah. Because I think is what you've said there is what Rory.
01:29:01:08 - 01:29:15:13
Dan Pope
And when when I did the podcast with Devon from Rory or she talks about silent irritants and silent pleasantries, it's all an irritant is the door. So it's stuff that you don't even know the the big, big loud with the chair. That's a sign, an irritant. And you can't even get your ass up and you.
01:29:15:13 - 01:29:17:14
Sat Bains
Radiate that gas because you want to turn the chair.
01:29:17:14 - 01:29:18:10
Dan Pope
Yeah, exactly.
01:29:18:10 - 01:29:20:22
Sat Bains
What about human body shapes.
01:29:20:22 - 01:29:22:19
Dan Pope
Restaurant, right? Yeah. Restaurant where.
01:29:22:20 - 01:29:23:10
Sat Bains
Restoration.
01:29:23:10 - 01:29:29:02
Dan Pope
Is. So, yeah. What are some of the other sort of silent irritants that you sort of pick up from more of the front of house side of things?
01:29:29:03 - 01:29:52:09
Sat Bains
I think that's because a man is a silent. She's not she doesn't do any clashes. She's not on anything because she doesn't want to be. And I think that's partly because she just wants to be running a restaurant and enjoying what she does. But her knowledge is world class. She's she sees things that we don't see, so she will always put the customer's expectation first and see what is it that they were looking for.
01:29:52:09 - 01:30:11:20
Sat Bains
Like the way you're greeted? I, you know, we'll go to the the car with an umbrella if it's raining so they can walk in and tunnels. Are you listening out for the gravel. So if the car pulls up, you know, is it going to be getting in about 4:00 for guests going to check in. So, you know, there's someone around around four 5345 and you hear the gravel.
01:30:11:20 - 01:30:29:12
Sat Bains
That means the gas is expected and then you can be ready for it. If it's raining, run out with umbrella, you know, the the rooms that, that, that really a little things I would never know. But having a table that can measure a hair straightener to a mirror.
01:30:29:14 - 01:30:29:23
Dan Pope
What?
01:30:29:23 - 01:30:49:21
Sat Bains
Hang on. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So a lot of hotels they reckon is being designed by men because a lot of the things they were like hairdryer straighteners because there's no mirror. So what women do potentially detail is they'll put a mirror near this plug socket. So the length of the cable is perfect for doing your hair.
01:30:49:21 - 01:30:52:09
Dan Pope
One very common sense. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.
01:30:52:09 - 01:31:08:23
Sat Bains
It's a tiny little thing. All these things like that and what's and what's in a little box in the, in the cupboard for your gas is like a lint roller. Something else. The things that you would probably need like a sewing kit. What. What is that you think? Oh, little pack, a bag of tricks that we would probably wanted once in a hotel.
01:31:09:00 - 01:31:18:16
Sat Bains
Yeah, we just have it. There is little things and tools that you need. Yeah. I mean yeah, yeah. Torch. And in case there's a black owl, whatever it is, it's, all these little things.
01:31:18:16 - 01:31:19:02
Dan Pope
They all add.
01:31:19:02 - 01:31:20:05
Sat Bains
Up. Yeah, they all I do.
01:31:20:05 - 01:31:49:02
Dan Pope
And what about on the roll play side of things. Because that's interesting is. So you so I believe that what you practice in private your prays for in public. Yeah. So it's like all the, all the, it's a the rugby at the minute is I saw this thing on Instagram of what I don't like I kind of follow rugby from a, from a distance, but but it was, it was a the try that they scored against Argentina and then they literally showed the next rail along was then practicing it in training and it beautiful.
01:31:49:05 - 01:31:55:23
Dan Pope
It was like, it was just like that was that you see it when you're watching it and they get praised in public. You know the game and puts the try down. You're like, wow, that was genius.
01:31:55:23 - 01:32:15:00
Sat Bains
She's about practice. She's practicing because I think that's not something that's probably good enough in restaurants because you just left your own devices. And I think the training aspect is something she's really big on because she believes that in awkward situations, especially when you're putting them, there should be a really good get out of jail clause where you can manage out of it because you've trained it.
01:32:15:02 - 01:32:23:08
Sat Bains
Yeah, if you haven't trained it, you're going to bat for it and you're going to panic mode. You saw making Chitauri soldiers and what is that, not yours? You just flounder.
01:32:23:08 - 01:32:23:23
Dan Pope
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:32:23:23 - 01:32:27:07
Sat Bains
You're floundering. It looks incompetent because you're the guy asking. Okay, then what are you doing?
01:32:27:10 - 01:32:28:08
Dan Pope
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:32:28:13 - 01:32:35:06
Sat Bains
You've actually been in that situation where you've had a, a tricky moment by practicing tricky moments.
01:32:35:08 - 01:32:35:23
Dan Pope
What are some of the.
01:32:35:23 - 01:32:59:00
Sat Bains
Things that, for example, like the way the table set. Right. So we have this rule, but it's a multi-course menu if you have a tasting menu. Yep. There's got to be a point where you know as this Somali that Glasgow is there, but you need a bit of space when the fucking rain comes at. So if the smell is too raw and he's noticed that the glass is probably a little bit too close to where your plate is going to go.
01:32:59:02 - 01:33:08:05
Sat Bains
The idea is they should automatically move it before a plate comes, so then it just goes slip because nothing worse during this.
01:33:09:13 - 01:33:30:20
Sat Bains
So he's trying to move these little rhythmic nuances without anyone knowing this is what you're trying to look for to say that's an issue. I mean there is an issue because you don't be standing there with a plate and start re re decorating their fucking table. So collectively as a team because this minute is going to put the wine down first or pour the water.
01:33:30:22 - 01:33:41:20
Sat Bains
He knows the dishes come in. Now these are things you should be looking for. Yes. So just to make the transaction good is like not rearrange everything.
01:33:41:22 - 01:33:47:09
Dan Pope
It's rhythm. What he said. That's what beautiful words it tastes like. It's because that's what I felt. This is kind of.
01:33:47:11 - 01:33:48:08
Sat Bains
Like a flow.
01:33:48:10 - 01:33:58:16
Dan Pope
Flow logically. Yeah. But like yeah, it's sort of fun, but not like, unless my what I've, what I'm trying stands is it didn't feel stuffy.
01:33:58:18 - 01:33:59:05
Sat Bains
It can't.
01:33:59:09 - 01:34:00:19
Dan Pope
I would it that I don't know.
01:34:00:19 - 01:34:03:03
Sat Bains
Because it wouldn't suits us because of our.
01:34:03:03 - 01:34:04:15
Dan Pope
Background. Yeah.
01:34:04:17 - 01:34:26:05
Sat Bains
And the reason I used to call it a working class too. So it was just a mistake because you want an accessible restaurant. Yeah. Regardless of accolades. So for example, we know people have save money. So special occasion it's a serious fucking investment coming to a restaurant like this. I don't take that lightly. None of us do. That's a serious commitment you've made to command.
01:34:26:07 - 01:34:46:14
Sat Bains
So when people have, like, stayed over last night or they're coming for lunch now or whenever I hear fucking, I, you know, you give them credit because they've made the decision to eat with you. That's something you can never take lightly. That's a privilege. So you've got to give them, you've got to practice like you said all the moving parts.
01:34:46:18 - 01:34:55:22
Sat Bains
So you become really efficient without being because stuffiness is I suppose stuffiness is. Insecurity.
01:34:55:24 - 01:34:58:21
Dan Pope
Yes. Yeah. It's an illusion reveals.
01:34:58:24 - 01:34:59:05
Sat Bains
Huge.
01:34:59:05 - 01:34:59:20
Dan Pope
Security.
01:34:59:20 - 01:35:00:19
Sat Bains
And also so you know.
01:35:00:21 - 01:35:01:02
Dan Pope
Yeah.
01:35:01:06 - 01:35:17:10
Sat Bains
Hang on wait until I started to up and to thank goodness for being you. Take me wrong because the route casts short shrift. You don't want to deal with that, which is very rare. But majority of people, 90% of the 99% of the people want to be here because they want to experience, given the experience that you've practiced, that.
01:35:17:11 - 01:35:18:05
Dan Pope
Yeah.
01:35:18:07 - 01:35:21:17
Sat Bains
That you've become really good at.
01:35:21:19 - 01:35:33:10
Dan Pope
Is mind I wanted to go back to the heart attack. Yes. That's okay. Yeah. Like you said, death right in the eye. And you said it changed you, like so from what? You were in the gym.
01:35:33:13 - 01:35:34:10
Sat Bains
You were at home.
01:35:34:10 - 01:35:35:11
Dan Pope
I was sorry, I.
01:35:35:11 - 01:35:36:10
Sat Bains
Was so my trainer with.
01:35:36:10 - 01:35:47:06
Dan Pope
Me. Oh, you had your trainer because you're fucking as you said. You fit like you didn't go to the gym chain. All my. So I know your life. So take me to sort of the the zenith of that.
01:35:47:08 - 01:36:06:19
Sat Bains
So yeah. Training with my trainer Val for years. We're doing lunges in the garden. Fight is massive pain. But 11:11 I thought it was muscular. I was doing lunge walks with two three kilo, bob, balls and I'd start fucking on it. I remember lean on the bin for classes. Oh yeah, it's a good way. And it's.
01:36:06:24 - 01:36:07:21
Dan Pope
30 kgs.
01:36:07:24 - 01:36:09:07
Sat Bains
Yeah, it's just a lunges.
01:36:09:10 - 01:36:10:24
Dan Pope
That's mental lapses of weight.
01:36:11:04 - 01:36:26:02
Sat Bains
I was, I fucking was I just so muscular, carried on. And then Amanda's in the kitchen. It was lockdown and it went out of the shower room. Shower breakfast shower went sideways in pain. I just felt this pain here and here.
01:36:26:08 - 01:36:26:18
Dan Pope
Right.
01:36:26:18 - 01:36:49:19
Sat Bains
So very strange. Never had it before. Like a bit of a dull sensation. Nothing major. I had a Groupon, so I've had a Groupon for four years. Five years. And then I felt this pain that. And then I she goes, there's a Sainsbury's in the mall, it's in park, which is not far. And for walk, just for a short breath I thought, something's not right, just I don't know what it was, just thought it was again, probably we did it and I felt was pain.
01:36:49:21 - 01:36:51:10
Sat Bains
So then I got home.
01:36:51:12 - 01:36:52:15
Dan Pope
Hello. What's the time period.
01:36:52:15 - 01:36:54:01
Sat Bains
Every three hours. What, three four hours.
01:36:54:03 - 01:36:54:22
Dan Pope
Quite a long time.
01:36:55:00 - 01:37:04:00
Sat Bains
She's. Oh, why don't you lie down for a bit? So it's about 3:00. 4:00 in the afternoon. She took to bed and I thought, I call this fucking shit. I'll go down. John comes when.
01:37:04:02 - 01:37:05:12
Dan Pope
I think I. You can go down here.
01:37:05:14 - 01:37:06:20
Sat Bains
John, come to the house.
01:37:06:20 - 01:37:07:12
Dan Pope
Okay. Sorry. Yeah.
01:37:07:15 - 01:37:23:10
Sat Bains
It's popping soon. We'll close. It's a lockdown as I did this unit last year. And it's. Do me a favor. When you when you wake up tonight, it's. Want to give me a belt just in case you don't make it out laughing. So anyway, so I don't think anything of it. And then I feel the pain in me arm.
01:37:23:12 - 01:37:41:01
Sat Bains
So my sisters work for one moment, so I rang. She's just ring down and I don't fuck about so random. In the next minute Prime Minister said, do you, egg put some spare on its own and said, you've had a heart attack. I'm going to take you in. So I'm thinking our overnight bag up. Yeah. Tonight.
01:37:41:01 - 01:38:05:17
Sat Bains
Tomorrow. And then they took me through to the angiogram where they put the dye in your, And they realize I ruptured artery and it blocks out a blood clot on it. And that to do. What they call it thinners. Blood thinners to see what the damage was before they could operate. So then in that time, I'm asking them, you know, something I spun out of the pain's going.
01:38:05:17 - 01:38:20:16
Sat Bains
I'm just fucking I it's normal. They feel anything, that's all. You know, it's it's quite serious. What? They said I was okay. What's the what's the three. You know, what's the options? Because we've got three ones. Kill which you have to get to London, but you're not traveling. Want something else and mean some other ones. Open heart surgery.
01:38:20:18 - 01:38:37:23
Sat Bains
So. Okay, fine. Okay. That's. I'm ringing them and we can't come to the hospital. But she did the letter in, and, so in the morning and if comes in says, I want to do this tomorrow, and this is your surgeon, so I want the top surgeon. Okay. With that? Sounds like take you all in style. Everything's cool.
01:38:38:00 - 01:38:57:05
Sat Bains
And then on the morning of the surgery that goes over, it's about 5:00. That's all, you know? So if you answer the call as well for she you into surgery at 10:00 was. Saw that I didn't know I fucking serious. I think you might need to call her. So she came and then we obviously had a little chat together which is pulling set me down about ten.
01:38:57:07 - 01:39:11:21
Sat Bains
You said you should come around about five and they'll keep Amanda posted by the incremental about nine. And then I just remember this fucking thing in my throat. And I woke up and the surgeon in the management said, oh, he's through his conference. I was it and I was in I was in hospital for about ten days.
01:39:11:23 - 01:39:14:21
Dan Pope
So I say to a man, when you had that job.
01:39:14:23 - 01:39:39:23
Sat Bains
I was cool about it. I even now I don't, I don't fear death. I think because I've had such a great life, career. We've been together for a long time, so we've had a burning journey. I just. Know how precious life is, but also how fickle it is. So you've got to really grab it and it all bleeds into all my beliefs.
01:39:39:23 - 01:40:06:02
Sat Bains
Then you'll bleed into that. That's probably why I'm the way I am. That's probably why I've got this mindset. Why I'm crazy is probably why all of these things are all accumulative of who I am as a person. Do I want to die? I want to live. Yeah, I want experiences. I'm healthy. I've looked after myself, I train, I eat well, I don't anything to excessive, but this is a journey into it and it's very short.
01:40:06:04 - 01:40:08:24
Sat Bains
So let's grab it and let's get the fuck out of it is for yeah.
01:40:08:24 - 01:40:09:18
Dan Pope
Yeah yeah yeah.
01:40:09:18 - 01:40:23:06
Sat Bains
And really do something really well. Hence if you're going to do that, do really well. If you're going to do that, do really well. I'll say if I want to win a restaurant, that's really the best we can, let's have no regrets. And that's the driver.
01:40:23:08 - 01:40:33:02
Dan Pope
It's almost a stoic, I think it's a more a fatty, which is a probably butchered that. But it's being white. Being aware of your mortality is actually a good thing.
01:40:33:02 - 01:40:33:12
Sat Bains
Yeah.
01:40:33:14 - 01:40:37:01
Dan Pope
Because it really forces you into fucking like being argument.
01:40:37:04 - 01:40:38:14
Sat Bains
Acting into action.
01:40:38:20 - 01:40:55:02
Dan Pope
And but also like appreciating the now, like we've had a few friends, like family friends who are kind of in pretty horrific conditions over it just kind of happens, you know, as I've just sort of said, well, I'm 32 now, but I kind of as you just get older. Yeah. And I'm like, shit. Like, he was super fit.
01:40:55:04 - 01:40:56:04
Sat Bains
But you don't know what's around the corner.
01:40:56:05 - 01:40:58:22
Dan Pope
There was on the corner. So be the now. So so also.
01:40:59:00 - 01:41:19:01
Sat Bains
Then from that, the one phrase I use a lot is the biggest gift I can give anyone is my time. Yeah, that's for all of us. So forget your fucking gifts. Forget your presents. If you go to someone birthday. You going is the biggest gift you've given them is your time. Yeah, because time is so fucking precious. Yeah, that's how I look at it.
01:41:19:03 - 01:41:26:14
Dan Pope
And so what do they say? Do you think, like this constant attack thing? Do they know what causes it? Because like when you leave, because you've clearly fit.
01:41:26:14 - 01:41:38:12
Sat Bains
Like I said, it's hereditary genetics and Punjabi heritage. We all suffer from high cholesterol. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah, it's genetics, but also probably my lifestyle from a chef from all these years.
01:41:38:12 - 01:41:39:00
Dan Pope
Yeah, yeah.
01:41:39:00 - 01:41:53:06
Sat Bains
Your early years of drinking and all the shit used to go with it. Late night. So it's all accumulative, but it's what I do now. Now I know the information that I know. How can I enjoy the next chapter?
01:41:53:08 - 01:42:06:03
Dan Pope
So when you wake up 9 p.m., hospital bed eventually come around, you've got this thing in your neck. How's the change from going in? This is going out because I read something you said it has changed you.
01:42:06:05 - 01:42:30:04
Sat Bains
It's a difficult one because I don't feel I've changed. I think what what was difficult was the brain is a lot stronger than the body that I realized because it. My body, my mind was saying, get up, do shit. But my body couldn't do it. So going home for the six weeks, eight weeks after, I had to keep moving off my mother's phone.
01:42:30:06 - 01:42:56:09
Sat Bains
So I lost like 16 kilos in ten days. So I thought. But because you've got muscle repetition and memory and all the rest of it, you slowly start building yourself up. You understand your brain is trying to make you move and asking a lot from your body. Body couldn't reactivate, couldn't, couldn't respond. And I said, humility. You know, it's a beautiful feeling because you think, well, I'm human now.
01:42:56:11 - 01:43:28:24
Sat Bains
And they realize how mechanical and how you made and how you are. Machinery, biological, mechanical, mental, psychological. You're a mixture of everything, and you've got to be realistic in your own mortality. So, you know, I was fucking lucky. I've still got this time. I'm still healthy. I've still got real love. I still love what I do, still got my wife, still got my job, still got all the things I love my friends and I'm still doing what I always wanted to do.
01:43:28:24 - 01:43:45:05
Sat Bains
I'm not change anything. Yeah, the change came after when I said I want to be quieter and we changed it. So instead of doing the 250 covers a week, when that two 120, we reduced the staff, reduced the covers, reduced the opening times, and everything just went.
01:43:45:07 - 01:43:47:09
Dan Pope
Do you feel happier now? Absolutely.
01:43:47:11 - 01:44:07:04
Sat Bains
I think contentment is a beautiful thing and content is being content in all parts of your life, and that's what we will strive for. And that's why there's so much mental health and everything. But people finding out, yeah, I'm not happy, I'm happy, but a lot of it standard. Jordan, you know about therapy for 12 years. I know exactly who I am.
01:44:07:04 - 01:44:24:13
Sat Bains
I know how I get triggered, what makes me, what makes me act a different way. If I think I said things and I know that they all trigger certain parts of my makeup because I've done a lot of work on myself, you know, one of the things I did, which is going back to when he said white belt, you know, I took up jujitsu two years ago.
01:44:24:13 - 01:44:44:15
Sat Bains
And the reason is completely going out of the box, the frustration working in an environment like this in the kitchen where you're telling people what to do, you become a mentor. But the frustration is they can't always adhere to what you're asking them to do. So the frustration is folks say, how hard is it? So I don't know what I'm going to go back to something I'm really shitty at, which is jujitsu.
01:44:44:17 - 01:45:08:24
Sat Bains
So then I started to say I'm dog shit. But you learn empathy because your trainer is telling you to do something you can't do that. You're frustrated. So it hopefully puts me in a better mindset to deal with people that don't know what they're doing. So good. Because I don't know what I'm doing again. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you're on your field of expertise, you just this piece of piss, you fucking do that, do that, cook that.
01:45:09:01 - 01:45:34:03
Sat Bains
It's become bloody. Yeah. What? It's done. It's made me go back to fucking how people all struggle to do this because it's really hard. Jujitsu has taught me that. That it's a journey. It's not a destination. It's a journey of trying something, becoming better through repetition, through reps to hopefully then make you a bit more human to understand how people struggle in a in a professional kitchen.
01:45:34:09 - 01:45:40:19
Sat Bains
Yes, because my coach probably struggles with me when he's showing me something five time. I still can't get it.
01:45:40:21 - 01:45:46:03
Dan Pope
Maybe that's such a wonderful philosophy, that kind of empathy and grounding. I think you need it.
01:45:46:03 - 01:45:53:24
Sat Bains
You need it because when you get to a certain point in any career, you become really half decent at it. It's like, you know, ten, 20 to 30,000 an hour. All right. You want to call it?
01:45:53:24 - 01:45:55:01
Dan Pope
Yes.
01:45:55:03 - 01:46:15:14
Sat Bains
But you can't ever forget people will struggle. And as soon as you remember that and you put yourself back in the struggle, you realize I for me, I'm really bad at this. And then you're frustrated, and then you then get fucking wired up and then you you pissed off, but then forget with that. Just remember why you've gone back to doing something from scratch.
01:46:15:16 - 01:46:20:17
Sat Bains
Because you want to know what it feels like to be not great at somebody again. Yeah, tell me I don't.
01:46:20:17 - 01:46:34:16
Dan Pope
100% I, I've never heard anyone who has said you have this kind of keeps going back to uncommon common sense, but it's just. Yeah, I've never heard because I think there's an ego thing in this as well. When people get to the, you know, no, it's.
01:46:34:16 - 01:46:50:18
Sat Bains
Not you going to keep in check. Yeah. I mean, no ego could be all you fucking know. So yeah. But it's not. Yeah. We're not all the same. And then as soon as we remember that we're not all the same. And we all have different learning capabilities, we all have different patterns on learning, and we all have different ways of understanding.
01:46:50:18 - 01:47:05:16
Sat Bains
Or you, physical, practical or mental learner. You know, I thought I was a I thought I was a practical learner for years. I thought, you know, I mean, I wasn't my jujitsu coach. Carlos, it is your actual physical learner. You was.
01:47:05:18 - 01:47:08:05
Dan Pope
Shadowing. Oh, sorry. Physical exam like you.
01:47:08:05 - 01:47:08:18
Sat Bains
I've got to do it.
01:47:08:22 - 01:47:09:19
Dan Pope
Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:47:09:19 - 01:47:24:04
Sat Bains
That's cool. I can read about it. Yeah. Practicals are, you know, you show you demonstration, you do it. I need to be shown. So who's your practical learner? I never knew that. I only found out when I was 53 years old. Wow. That's mentalism.
01:47:24:06 - 01:47:32:15
Dan Pope
That's mental. We're going to come on to the books. I want to explore more, but, so what was the pain you're in that led you to go to therapy?
01:47:32:17 - 01:47:35:18
Sat Bains
I think it's childhood. It's all. It's all trauma for all of us.
01:47:35:20 - 01:47:38:17
Dan Pope
When we explore that question. What was that like?
01:47:38:18 - 01:48:03:24
Sat Bains
Childhood, growing up in a household that I did? Having a very strong minded father. Abusive. But you learn. You learn from that. That was the way he's able all you can put everything back into his box once you realize you're a manifestation of whatever that was and none of it was your fault. That you're actually a byproduct and your traits as a man were dictated by your youth.
01:48:04:01 - 01:48:21:21
Sat Bains
Yeah. And your upbringing. Your childhood. Because it's all trauma. As soon as you understand that, it opens this fucking door of wisdom that I'm not fucking mental. I'm not deranged and more abnormal. It all makes sense of the pattern of trajectory I've had in my life is why I ended up what I did.
01:48:21:23 - 01:48:22:06
Dan Pope
Yeah.
01:48:22:12 - 01:48:41:11
Sat Bains
And then you start to unravel it. And then it all. All makes sense. So my biggest thing is with all my friends, and I've always said it. And then guys in the kitchen, you see them struggling. Let's get some help. Get some fucking hell yeah. Because that's their job to pull that shit out. Because what you do, you bury it and it's fucking buried deep.
01:48:41:13 - 01:48:42:23
Sat Bains
And sometimes it's so deep
01:48:42:23 - 01:48:58:19
Sat Bains
it just needs a little string. And then the shit comes out and you just kind of. There's this relief you feel, because you start to understand your makeup. Because what all we're doing is questioning ourselves. All our lives. Why? Why do I feel alive? Why within that, what makes you do that? What makes you have eyes to drink on the fucking water?
01:48:58:20 - 01:49:05:00
Dan Pope
Yeah, I mean, I, I it's going to the next three years because I have bad luck partying problems, get on it all weekend.
01:49:05:00 - 01:49:22:15
Sat Bains
And it's always excessive. Behaviors are caused by excessive traumas okay. Because it's all related. It's all related from the the product here was manifested here. So you've got to go back to understand the trigger points of why.
01:49:22:21 - 01:49:23:14
Dan Pope
So what was some of this.
01:49:23:14 - 01:49:40:21
Sat Bains
And one of them for me was because I lost out on youth, because I was working as a mom, was always want to stay and they always go out, always fucking be the last one out, last one. Hope. You know, when I was a young lad and, somebody since I was 28, we should go out on a Friday night game of five in the morning, go to work at eight in the morning, three hours sleep.
01:49:41:02 - 01:50:00:10
Sat Bains
Yeah, because I lost so much of my youth working. So I was chasing something that didn't need to run, had to, And then realize the damage is probably done later. But what the fuck were you doing? If I knew now I to let that go. But you had to go through that. You got to hear.
01:50:00:14 - 01:50:05:24
Dan Pope
Yeah. Fascinating. Any other sort of things you learned about yourself through that period?
01:50:06:01 - 01:50:23:24
Sat Bains
It's just you make up of who you are. Why? You know, I'm very competitive. I don't know, I don't know where that came from. Then you realize that because that was, you know, jujitsu was hard because he used to pin you down. So we're not going to pin down this fucking horrible period of like, call me. But then Coach K's just breathe, breathe.
01:50:24:01 - 01:50:45:03
Sat Bains
And he start learning to deal with pressure. Yes, I was traumatizing initially, but then when you put in that situation as a man, you fucking you reverse right back to that fucking feeling of helplessness. But then you realize with help with a coach, with fucking life and who you are now, you can get through it. I am so, so good.
01:50:45:03 - 01:50:51:13
Sat Bains
And I was literally fucking shit to you. You gotta get through it. You don't mean yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's why it's all. Everything cyclical.
01:50:51:18 - 01:50:52:07
Dan Pope
Yeah.
01:50:52:09 - 01:51:05:21
Sat Bains
Everything always comes round and you become the better version of yourself. And you understand yourself and you keep pushing and. And the push is never to push to the end. It's just not to give up.
01:51:05:23 - 01:51:26:16
Dan Pope
Yeah. I also think there's a I think there's a lot of Type-A people. There's a, do you know, the restaurant code in London? Yeah, yeah. And in Santiago. His story is fucking wild. Like, I think he lost his grandad, mum and maybe dad when he old in the same month when I was 14. Mate came to London, had like 40 could a day, couldn't even go on like hinge dates and shit.
01:51:26:16 - 01:51:43:14
Dan Pope
Like Wild story. And you know, some people say, oh, you know, you'll never be satisfied. It's, it's never enough. Or why do you keep pushing or like just relax. Yeah, yeah. And and what we sort of came to the conclusion with and I kind of agree with this is that's wrong for like a lot of people say that the ones who sat on the sofa fuck.
01:51:43:18 - 01:51:44:14
Sat Bains
Him.
01:51:44:16 - 01:52:01:01
Dan Pope
Eating quavers, I mean, fuck off. But there's an actual element of peace and improvement. Yeah. When you look at something like, how can I make this better? There's I find peace in that. Like when it's with my writing, it's, oh, how do I like peace? It's therapeutic. There's like, makes you very present. And I think it's it's really interesting.
01:52:01:03 - 01:52:12:06
Dan Pope
When you say sort of that competitive thing because I think that is kind of we sort of the narrative of competitiveness is this like, fuck yeah, go for it. But actually there's, there is a kind of a beautiful peace to it and energy.
01:52:12:08 - 01:52:36:09
Sat Bains
But the thing with the competitive nature, which is very strange as well. On a note, this until someone pointed out all the sports I do is individual table tennis, badminton. Snooker. Paddle. No. Paddle. But I don't play any sports team sports. So interesting because I use that in it.
01:52:36:10 - 01:52:36:19
Dan Pope
Yeah.
01:52:36:24 - 01:53:01:01
Sat Bains
So I've utilized all my team sportsmanship in there. So anything else I do? Squash, badminton. One of it is his singular competitiveness against myself. So all I'm doing is trying to compete with myself to be better. But that's someone pointed out randomly years ago that from everything you do is just you. Yeah. You never play team sports like football or cricket or.
01:53:01:04 - 01:53:07:06
Sat Bains
I just I've got no, I've got no, I want to, man. I want to.
01:53:07:08 - 01:53:16:02
Dan Pope
Talk to me about my mama beans. Yes. Because I saw the truck outside it. So, what was she like in the role in the sort of the fabric of you growing up?
01:53:16:03 - 01:53:36:00
Sat Bains
She she was there, obviously. She was the matriarch of the house. And she she worked, mom worked, got three sisters, manage. My oldest sister was kind of like the mom as well, because she looked after us. Someone was always working in, had household, had shops, businesses. And I think it was a busy again. Punjabi households are quite noisy.
01:53:36:02 - 01:53:36:10
Dan Pope
By that.
01:53:36:14 - 01:53:45:04
Sat Bains
Because of the culture. Right. There's a lot of us in the community in Derby. So my dad had three, four brothers. Okay. Yeah.
01:53:45:06 - 01:53:46:03
Dan Pope
Yeah, go for it.
01:53:46:05 - 01:54:02:06
Sat Bains
So my dad had four brothers, and then they had their wives who live in my grandmother's house. That's probably 18 of us. Yeah. And then we all separated and went off to our own houses. So there were six of us in our house, and then we used to live in an area where the community was very big in the Punjabi community.
01:54:02:08 - 01:54:21:17
Sat Bains
That was the oldest brother. So a lot of them would come to our house on the weekends. So there's a lot of like nephews and cousins and all that shit. So it's quite noisy. The it's quite funny because when I meet with my sisters, the noise level goes up like that and I'm just sitting at our fucking. It's just so noisy.
01:54:21:19 - 01:54:28:04
Sat Bains
Because again, three sisters, two quite close in age, very competitive. So there's always that.
01:54:28:06 - 01:54:43:10
Dan Pope
That sense. So my mum's one of the three Scousers. So. And that fucking three sisters Scousers. Oh Christmas is just like fucking now is fucking crazy. And then like just they're lunatics. That's fascinating. And it's the mama beans thing because that that was a.
01:54:43:12 - 01:54:50:07
Sat Bains
So we that that we did in lockdown. We still have a place in Derbyshire that does some of the products.
01:54:50:11 - 01:54:51:04
Dan Pope
Right.
01:54:51:06 - 01:54:58:23
Sat Bains
And then we're looking at other venues at the moment to have a look at it. So it's on the back burner right. It's definitely out there.
01:54:58:23 - 01:55:04:01
Dan Pope
And that's like another like that. Like another way to make money essentially. Oh absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Oh like what they allow customers to spend with you.
01:55:04:03 - 01:55:21:11
Sat Bains
Absolutely. Yeah. But it's also a very authentic, look into my upbringing as a, as a Punjabi household. This but again, it's quite difficult to explain because the food you get that's momma's mom brings is food. Is that that mum's food was like Punjab. Be authentic but.
01:55:21:11 - 01:55:21:21
Dan Pope
Describe.
01:55:22:01 - 01:55:23:22
Sat Bains
So you wouldn't get this in a restaurant.
01:55:23:24 - 01:55:24:08
Dan Pope
Okay.
01:55:24:11 - 01:55:53:01
Sat Bains
So yes it's called a aubergine curry or chickpea curry. But it's not like what you'd get in a restaurant because that's more like good you all to Pakistani. Yeah. So at all food is very much homestyle, but it's passed down from mums and granddaughters and daughters. So it's almost like this really traditional curry. But you wouldn't necessarily recognize the flavors so much as an Indian restaurant.
01:55:53:03 - 01:55:53:17
Sat Bains
Does that make sense?
01:55:53:17 - 01:56:03:13
Dan Pope
Yes it does. What's a country like? What do most people miss understand? You think about, the Punjabi households or I mean, so you've talked a lot about like your.
01:56:03:13 - 01:56:06:03
Sat Bains
Past a little bit more to do with. Oh, you sorry.
01:56:06:05 - 01:56:17:20
Dan Pope
I know I was going to say, because I've heard you talk a lot about this sort of immigrant mindset, you know, work. Can you you're not soft tits or whatever, like. But I'd love to understand. What do most people misunderstand about that from your perspective?
01:56:17:22 - 01:56:36:23
Sat Bains
It's a very close knit community. Yeah. Normally families always congealed in the same in a in a regional area. Yeah, we were Derby, so I had all my relatives there, and the East Midlands and Midlands. So a lot of us uncles, aunties, brothers. Yeah. But that's dad's nephews and cousins. All that shit came over in the 60s.
01:56:37:00 - 01:56:53:03
Sat Bains
So my, my grandparents came over in the 60s. And my mum and dad came over in the 60s as well from India. Dad was in Malaysia so he came over when I was 14. Mom came when she was like eight went to Bradford. So she's got like a bit of a northern accent is quite funny. Yeah, yeah.
01:56:53:08 - 01:57:22:05
Sat Bains
And that arranged marriage at 16 in Derby and then obviously first child at 17. So again, it's all traditional, quite repressed the way it is, the way culture. Because obviously as a community, you're an immigrant. So you have your own communities and then obviously you've got to work within the environment of the UK. But because it's England, it's part of the Commonwealth, it was a way in for a better way of life over here.
01:57:22:06 - 01:57:22:13
Dan Pope
Yeah.
01:57:22:17 - 01:57:46:22
Sat Bains
So they adapted very well to the British culture of working hard. You can earn that. Got businesses play the system to his benefit. You know what he did half decently well. But the the community is very, loyal to each other. The good war is like the meeting pot for the time. The temple, the the the golden. Sorry.
01:57:46:22 - 01:58:05:19
Sat Bains
The Sikh temple. Yeah. The good warriors where a lot of the communities all congregate on the on the weekend. Yeah. So you bought it with like, religion, tradition, all the things I fucking hate it. Yeah. And then I met Amanda in a in a hotel restaurant. We worked together, and I was a customer from the dad's shop, so he had a newsagent.
01:58:05:21 - 01:58:15:13
Sat Bains
So the restaurant was there, just opened. And then one of the night porters told me that most Malaysian, one of the fucking managers and and that was, it was all came over then because obviously being Indian.
01:58:15:16 - 01:58:16:07
Dan Pope
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:58:16:09 - 01:58:27:19
Sat Bains
So then Mumbai that keep me on ass. So I got kicked out of 18. Yeah. The black bin on is full of clothes. I turned up at Amanda's asking can I move in? It's really just major that takes me.
01:58:27:19 - 01:58:28:13
Dan Pope
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:58:28:15 - 01:58:49:13
Sat Bains
She left them at 16, so she was very independent. So what the fuck this guy going to do it. So. So that was it came over say so again. So it's kind of like it's probably like that cultural from the other side until I'm Indian. Because she was why I got kicked out. Because I did, you know, what are you going to do.
01:58:49:13 - 01:58:50:12
Sat Bains
1718 is all.
01:58:50:12 - 01:58:51:01
Dan Pope
Yeah, of course.
01:58:51:01 - 01:58:57:23
Sat Bains
It's just a kid. Yeah. But best thing that happened because it meant I could cut my ties. Didn't have to work in that fucking shop anymore.
01:58:58:00 - 01:59:02:13
Dan Pope
Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. And, I can actually use your bicycle for good things.
01:59:02:13 - 01:59:22:18
Sat Bains
Yeah, exactly. And then moved him, and, then I got sacked from that job because. Shit. She carried on. Then we moved to Nottingham where his band is from, and then we worked. I think it was always from this moment we were driving the how we travel had a shit. Orion. You know what of shit? Orion. Ford.
01:59:22:18 - 01:59:23:05
Sat Bains
Orion.
01:59:23:05 - 01:59:23:20
Dan Pope
Yeah.
01:59:23:22 - 01:59:43:12
Sat Bains
Must coming back from mum's when I was about 24. Trevor says you a few years after it all happened and I saw this fucking caught on. It's going to pass around on the right side. There's a BMW like a fucking five series on slick, dark blue, night time look. Looks immaculate. And I'm driving this fucking shitty red Ford.
01:59:43:12 - 02:00:00:20
Sat Bains
Orion. Amanda, I don't take a fuck out. When is that going to be? Is. And she says we're not. When we say she just said Lola. Just confident knowing that we just got to work really, really hard. And it was the always 20.
02:00:00:22 - 02:00:04:10
Dan Pope
What do you like spending money on materially?
02:00:04:12 - 02:00:30:10
Sat Bains
I like spending money on, His interesting because I do love things like sports gear. I like Lululemon. That's my favorite training gear you buy. This train is really good Japanese whiskey. It's a beautiful wines and cigars. All right. Yeah, that is all blown things. But I've done a few times now where I've done a curfew myself, where I say I'm not buying anything for a year.
02:00:30:12 - 02:00:49:09
Sat Bains
I've done it because I've got enough clothes right. But every season and every sport for the rest of my life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I try to do every now and then just in there and I like to put that on myself. Worse, I, I'm not spending for six months on anything and it just resets. Yeah. Do you know what I mean?
02:00:49:11 - 02:00:50:16
Dan Pope
Yeah. Because I'm a bit bad like that.
02:00:50:18 - 02:00:52:13
Sat Bains
That's just on a whim. It it. Yeah, yeah.
02:00:52:15 - 02:00:56:08
Dan Pope
So, like, I've got this, I've got, I've got quite addictive personalities.
02:00:56:11 - 02:00:57:13
Sat Bains
Yeah. I was on my.
02:00:57:13 - 02:01:12:02
Dan Pope
Phone like that, but I ended up buying these fucking 600 Nike trainers. And I love it. And I was sort of like looking at all the different colors. And I went, oh no, I just yeah, yeah. So I was on and I was like, what are you doing? I ended up getting so many trotters that I don't even have enough days of the week to wear them.
02:01:12:04 - 02:01:19:07
Dan Pope
And I went into the store. I was like, I just had to finish the meeting. I was, I'll just pop in next thing that they're very good salespeople. They're like, oh yeah, darling, you look amazing.
02:01:19:07 - 02:01:19:19
Sat Bains
I want you.
02:01:19:19 - 02:01:33:10
Dan Pope
To spend money. Yeah, darling, you look amazing. I was, oh, I can fucking rock these. And I literally I was so bad I put them on the thing I saw that they looked fucking shit. And so I. And I was like, you're just going to blow another £120 on the fucking trainers. You don't need to.
02:01:33:10 - 02:01:38:13
Sat Bains
Think is, is oh, that is, it's therapy. We know that. Yeah sure. Fix.
02:01:38:14 - 02:01:39:03
Dan Pope
Yes.
02:01:39:03 - 02:01:40:04
Sat Bains
It's the endorphins in it.
02:01:40:05 - 02:01:40:17
Dan Pope
Yeah yeah.
02:01:40:17 - 02:01:43:04
Sat Bains
Yeah. Then you know what if it's not for.
02:01:43:04 - 02:02:00:22
Dan Pope
Yeah yeah yeah yeah 100% that is. Let's talk about this. Yeah. Me some doodle because some. Yeah. So just give some context for people listening. Yeah. Talk to me about what this is. I mean, just so we had about this is, this is about a pile of these.
02:02:00:22 - 02:02:26:23
Sat Bains
It's probably about 60 or 70 of them over the years. So what it is, is a beautiful little book. And I like writing. I love doodling, writing notes or words, ideas, sketches. And the idea is I feel that once it's out, it's out there. So I try not to have anything left it that makes sense. So I need to express myself somehow through this.
02:02:27:03 - 02:02:39:05
Sat Bains
Okay, so it could be a word. It could be like a line. It could be like I could work an audition. So I had ideas. For mid-summer 2025.
02:02:39:07 - 02:02:43:16
Dan Pope
So how long? How long is this? How old is this book?
02:02:43:18 - 02:02:45:05
Sat Bains
This is probably about three months old.
02:02:45:07 - 02:02:46:08
Dan Pope
Okay, cool.
02:02:46:10 - 02:03:06:08
Sat Bains
So again, you draw, right. You put the dating's. I didn't used to put the date, so I thought, shit, but I think that. So now always on the day now. So yeah I can have a reference point. So there could be like little things that I'm writing or sketches or drawings and sometimes it could be like a little like a little doodle, which is what they're called.
02:03:06:10 - 02:03:26:06
Sat Bains
But that would have lots of significant information on it, enough for me. So if I went back to I remember where it was and it could be a new idea for a desk, it could be an idea on where the menu's coming, what, what direction we want to go in. And I think by having it written, it just helps me with my mind process of logging stuff.
02:03:26:08 - 02:03:28:07
Sat Bains
It just helps me work better.
02:03:28:09 - 02:03:44:07
Dan Pope
I also think creatively, you've got to let your subconscious go to work. Yeah, like getting out your head and then like sort of this whole idea again, this Rick Rubin talks a lot about this, of letting the ideas sort of marinate and, yeah, breathe energy. Well, I think when you get it out, put it there, allows it to go to work.
02:03:44:07 - 02:03:44:10
Dan Pope
Yeah.
02:03:44:10 - 02:03:46:20
Sat Bains
Then it's like it's like yeah. In they're in it then. Yeah.
02:03:46:20 - 02:04:01:14
Dan Pope
Yeah. And then you open and you're like and you but you come back. But also I think when you go back to an idea, it's like reading a bit like, see if I read a book, I'm trying to give an example, like if I read, I remember I read, for our work we've got for Tim. Tim one was like 20, right?
02:04:01:14 - 02:04:06:24
Dan Pope
Okay. I'm reread it last year, same book. I'm a different person, man. But as but I.
02:04:06:24 - 02:04:07:12
Sat Bains
Mean so much.
02:04:07:12 - 02:04:21:00
Dan Pope
Different things, much different. So it's like you may write that down in April, or you might have one of those doodles from 2017. Yeah, this is pretty hot. This is pretty all this other stuff. You gotta be a different person. You got to looking back at it and it gives you this whole new energy. That's why I think it's very important to capture these things.
02:04:21:00 - 02:04:35:23
Sat Bains
And because my first passion was all when I was at school. Yeah, yeah, I would have been loved to be an artist. So I loved art at school, and I love kind of like Rothko. I love kind of like contemporary art, minimalist. But then so then for a while I was actually using. So I've got some books here.
02:04:35:23 - 02:04:48:07
Sat Bains
You can have a look later. Yeah, yeah, but you're conceptual. So I would actually instead of looking at inspiration of the chest, I looked at all and I replicated all images in food mate is mental.
02:04:48:08 - 02:04:49:05
Dan Pope
So sick.
02:04:49:07 - 02:04:50:04
Sat Bains
This fucking mental.
02:04:50:04 - 02:04:56:10
Dan Pope
I really believe different inputs equal different outputs again. So you're looking where every other chef is looking. You're going to see organization.
02:04:56:10 - 02:05:14:14
Sat Bains
Yeah. So this way I kind of got some really original ideas to say. There was like a beautiful red circle there. And each couple did and I did it. Where is beetroot jelly with beef tart underneath. And you cut in it or just. It was. And we used to put the card of the actual picture first on the table, then the dish dishes come out.
02:05:14:16 - 02:05:18:11
Sat Bains
So this is inspired by each couple. And then now this is mental.
02:05:18:11 - 02:05:19:05
Dan Pope
Yeah yeah yeah.
02:05:19:06 - 02:05:44:23
Sat Bains
I just love the whole connection between creative art and creative food, because you can do so many things where the idea is unique because it's not come from the normal genre that you're looking at. I seasonality grouse, watercress, black or blackberries. But then all of a sudden you've got a unique view. Oh my God, that could that could be the new grass dish which is just a purple sheet of jelly.
02:05:45:04 - 02:05:47:04
Sat Bains
Then everything's underneath it.
02:05:47:06 - 02:05:48:05
Dan Pope
And it's so okay.
02:05:48:05 - 02:06:02:24
Sat Bains
So okay I did one two years ago called Color genius. So I look to the dictionary means like coming out from the dark. So one of our friends in Singapore, Andre Chang, saw two star and he was doing a whole movement on this art piece. Is that when you do a dish.
02:06:03:01 - 02:06:04:03
Dan Pope
What was it called?
02:06:04:05 - 02:06:05:20
Sat Bains
Color genius. Yeah. I'll show you.
02:06:05:20 - 02:06:06:08
Dan Pope
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
02:06:06:10 - 02:06:11:01
Sat Bains
And it was almost like from the dark to the light or something like that. Right. In a forest.
02:06:11:01 - 02:06:11:14
Dan Pope
Yeah, yeah.
02:06:11:17 - 02:06:27:00
Sat Bains
So I thought that makes a lot of sense. So I did, a deer tartare. Like a venison tartare with loads of lichen, oak moss, mushrooms. So all the forest floor was a black sheets of gel on a black plate.
02:06:27:00 - 02:06:27:15
Dan Pope
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
02:06:27:16 - 02:06:36:12
Sat Bains
When he put it all the red and the flowers came out. So it was the light going into the from the dark. That's when I read that. Yeah, yeah I did it as a dish on the, on there.
02:06:36:12 - 02:06:36:20
Dan Pope
So.
02:06:37:01 - 02:06:39:21
Sat Bains
And he, he did it in the restaurants in Shanghai.
02:06:39:23 - 02:06:50:12
Dan Pope
That's so it's almost, it's really looking kind of obscure places. Yeah. And it was it this that John Haggerty guy. Originality comes from obscure sources which I really like.
02:06:50:12 - 02:07:11:12
Sat Bains
I think I think looking at all the chefs. Art, you're so opened up to a new field of thinking. Yeah. Because, you know, the food is going to look unique because it's no one's ever done it. But you've got to use your skill as a chef to then layer it with the ingredients and the balance. Yes. Because you've got this beautiful new look.
02:07:11:14 - 02:07:16:09
Sat Bains
I'll go before we go, I'll show you all the dishes we've done that relate to art.
02:07:16:09 - 02:07:19:21
Dan Pope
Yeah. And I'll what I'll do is I'll. Yeah, some pictures and then we can have.
02:07:19:23 - 02:07:20:11
Sat Bains
Like.
02:07:20:13 - 02:07:28:09
Dan Pope
So just quickly on this and on the doodles. Is there any specific examples from here that again we can snap up and whack on. Yeah. This one here.
02:07:28:09 - 02:07:35:11
Sat Bains
Yeah. So this one is the new duck. This. So again just that looking at that makes some sense because I would I was I love the way.
02:07:35:13 - 02:07:36:05
Dan Pope
I would have had that.
02:07:36:05 - 02:08:04:16
Sat Bains
Right. You would have sort of similar. But this is the new version of working this week okay. Right. It's not the mindset. So that makes them all of angle. So just looking at that, it kind of appeases my sensibilities of visual because I already know that's going to be toast. Soft crispy watercress as in acidic as you. So I know what it's going to look like and tastes like.
02:08:04:16 - 02:08:18:10
Sat Bains
But I've just got to put together, so then I can work on the balance of each mouthful. Goes with what? Yeah. Is there enough of that to that ratio. So that is almost like a finished dish already. I've just got to match that.
02:08:18:10 - 02:08:20:22
Dan Pope
To where does, where does that ideas come from. Like does that.
02:08:20:22 - 02:08:45:04
Sat Bains
Just from a physical. That came from trying to reintroduce the new duck dish. The old one to make it a bit cleaner, but to add some duck skin and toast with paté. So you've got the duck liver, potatoes, chutney, watercress salad, classic beautiful wild duck. But then you've got soft meat, crisp, soft. But then that came from a visual that.
02:08:45:04 - 02:08:46:22
Sat Bains
That looks so right.
02:08:46:24 - 02:08:47:15
Dan Pope
Yeah.
02:08:47:17 - 02:08:48:07
Sat Bains
Does that make sense?
02:08:48:07 - 02:08:49:06
Dan Pope
Completely. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
02:08:49:06 - 02:08:50:16
Sat Bains
Just looks so right to me.
02:08:50:17 - 02:08:56:21
Dan Pope
Yeah yeah yeah. It's mad just seeing your creative the way is you sort of seeing the energy flows. Yeah. Creative. And then.
02:08:56:21 - 02:09:17:15
Sat Bains
You. Oh it's all you're trying to do is, is really recreate the feeling you get from a dish. Can you, can you do it in a busy service. Can you do it where it's, you know, less like a tart we did with the, the, the mushrooms that you probably had. And then you tried to think about. So this is the dish you had the.
02:09:17:17 - 02:09:20:06
Sat Bains
Oh yeah. That's the one with the.
02:09:20:08 - 02:09:21:03
Dan Pope
That was banging.
02:09:21:08 - 02:09:31:18
Sat Bains
The duck. But again that that makes sense now because it looks so jammy, so so striking. So then we've got to replicate that on the plate.
02:09:31:18 - 02:09:35:13
Dan Pope
And then when you take it to the team take it to John. Yeah. Because I think creativity.
02:09:35:15 - 02:09:36:13
Sat Bains
He just gets it straight away.
02:09:36:19 - 02:09:44:21
Dan Pope
Yeah. But is there is there an element of where you like.
02:09:44:23 - 02:09:49:21
Dan Pope
Say hello example. Like say you know Mick Jagger may write a lyric and then
02:09:49:23 - 02:09:52:22
Sat Bains
Oh I will put it out for interpretation. Yeah, yeah. That's sometimes. Yeah. Absolutely.
02:09:53:01 - 02:09:53:18
Dan Pope
What happens then.
02:09:53:22 - 02:10:05:23
Sat Bains
But again I'll, I will probably say I want it to look like that, but then we'll work out what each piece. Okay. So then the dish looks like that. Yeah. But I don't know what it all is yet. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah.
02:10:06:00 - 02:10:16:06
Dan Pope
You said you have you write sometimes, like, sentences and stuff. What? Some like this 1 or 2, sort of like sentences. You kind of live your life and philosophy by then. You haven't really got any.
02:10:16:06 - 02:10:25:10
Sat Bains
I just I think we've used some of them here. But again, I don't know why you use them like a plan. You get to spend money. You know, things like that. They're kind of like probably mantras.
02:10:25:15 - 02:10:26:19
Dan Pope
That's what I mean. Yeah, but.
02:10:26:19 - 02:10:36:16
Sat Bains
I don't have them written on an album. Yeah, they're all part of your makeup over a period of time that you don't know you can. Oh, there is, yeah. Because I've never written them down in that way. As a block.
02:10:36:18 - 02:10:37:06
Dan Pope
Yeah.
02:10:37:06 - 02:10:48:05
Sat Bains
As in, that's the one I'm going to keep that one. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. Come out in conversation and you forget. You probably forget 90% more than you remember. But at the time it meant so much. Yes. At the time.
02:10:48:07 - 02:10:49:08
Dan Pope
Yeah. Nice way. So I've.
02:10:49:08 - 02:10:50:09
Sat Bains
Not logged a.
02:10:50:10 - 02:11:09:10
Dan Pope
Play that year from what I've picked up. Is that uncommon common sense? Yeah I like the idea of this one. It's, it's an organism an an energy restaurant. Yeah. And that transfers to a story like it's fascinating a couple of things and we'll begin. So I'll wrap this up. Maybe I'm loving this, but so you've traveled all around the world.
02:11:09:10 - 02:11:21:17
Dan Pope
Yeah. And I would love to know, like. Like what? Maybe the best way to ask this is be specific, but, like, what's what country does the best breakfast do you think? Well.
02:11:21:19 - 02:11:23:19
Sat Bains
That's a very good one. I think the UK.
02:11:23:21 - 02:11:25:02
Dan Pope
Yeah. Yeah.
02:11:25:04 - 02:11:26:11
Sat Bains
The UK did a brilliant breakfast.
02:11:26:17 - 02:11:31:07
Dan Pope
But then like more, more so like use it as, as a launchpad to explore different cultures.
02:11:31:09 - 02:11:59:01
Sat Bains
I think Japanese breakfast is very good in terms of their almost like their kaiseki. Yeah. We had it once in, in the mountains, in, Kyoto somewhere, and it was just this incredible adventure of like pickles and chow machine egg dish. And it was just the celebration of this kind of like. All these lovely lacquered dishes full of elements that each had a purpose to be there.
02:11:59:03 - 02:12:27:19
Sat Bains
And I think that's Japanese food in general. But I think that's the most advanced cuisine on the planet personally, in terms of their knowledge, their understanding of seasonality, the nuances of balance, seasonality, and all of them things to make something a complete with lots of little parts. I think the kaiseki menu in general is that we have different glasses throughout the meal, and they will change the texture, different cup.
02:12:27:19 - 02:12:48:02
Sat Bains
And then you'd have a certain thing a certain time because it's what's needed. Then to the so in tune with the whole makeup of it is incredible. So kaiseki is what the modern day tasting menu is. So we can take so much from the kaiseki menu if we're doing tasting menus here. Yeah. So you can look at the nuances of balance.
02:12:48:04 - 02:13:07:03
Sat Bains
And that's why sometimes years ago I went in 2007 to Japan, and then I started introducing vegetables as a course. I remember Daniel Clifford saying years ago I did a celeriac dish. So they're about pickles, they're about snapper truffle juice because that's what you normally serve on the side of a beef dish. So you've actually made it into a course I guess.
02:13:07:04 - 02:13:18:12
Sat Bains
Yeah. Because we should be celebrating the vegetable on par with the beef. Because you should there should be no hierarchy with ingredients. Each one should have its own space.
02:13:18:14 - 02:13:25:14
Dan Pope
What other countries do you think? Like a very do very exquisite food or like culturally?
02:13:25:16 - 02:13:27:10
Sat Bains
Well,
02:13:27:22 - 02:13:28:22
Sat Bains
Difficult one.
02:13:28:24 - 02:13:46:21
Dan Pope
Yeah, yeah, that's because I've been to Japan. I went to 2019. What I found out about that place is just as you go is the specialisms of everything. Everything. So like you have the ramen guy, you have the katsu guy. Just one thing to remember, like, but also, you know, and they had one guy like basically doing chicken also.
02:13:46:21 - 02:13:59:02
Dan Pope
Yes. Use which sounds mental. Like he's like fucking banging. But I gave it to my dad. He was like, what the fuck is that chicken also, mate. But it was delicious. Look, she's great. She wouldn't have done the psychological jump that it's.
02:13:59:04 - 02:14:00:05
Sat Bains
Yeah, yeah.
02:14:00:07 - 02:14:02:15
Dan Pope
It was it was really good.
02:14:02:17 - 02:14:06:11
Sat Bains
So I think again, culturally, I'm not sure, but I've, I've traveled in terms of.
02:14:06:11 - 02:14:08:01
Dan Pope
Like, where have you been? Like, we have been.
02:14:08:01 - 02:14:51:21
Sat Bains
To America, San Fran, New York, Black Forest in in Germany, France, I love France. See, for me, I still rate France is probably my romantic passage to gastronomy because I kind of grew up with reading the French repertoire. Larousse gastronomy. Escoffier and I was taught French at college. As in French, cooking is still probably the most satisfying cuisine for me on the planet, as in nourishing, because I love going to a three store in France and just experiencing the whole etiquette in a glass champagne style.
02:14:52:01 - 02:15:09:23
Sat Bains
While you're perusing the menu, you're not sure what to choose. You see what you're made to choose in, and then you have some there. You choose the white wine. You sit there, you take, you know, the whole romanticism. I mean, Claude will go to Paris twice a year, just on the Eurostar, just for lunch. And it's the best trip you can imagine.
02:15:09:23 - 02:15:30:16
Sat Bains
So I leave Nottingham at 630. I'm back at 930 at night. Yeah, we've had lunch at Three Star. Wow. What? It's the romanticism is still has this. It still pull strings with my all of the connection of haute cuisine of Lyon. And I love making sauces that sauce making the true scale to get depth and layers into a sauce.
02:15:30:21 - 02:15:44:13
Sat Bains
And I love that that's coming from the French repertoire. So that's probably where my heart is, where my emotions are as a chef, because it's it still means so much to me. Manage it.
02:15:44:15 - 02:15:59:21
Dan Pope
So you've got the romantic French pull. Yeah. What's the kind of the new or the exciting? I've just been to Australia, but at work, I mean, what would you say is the best foodie city in the world? I mean, I hate the word foodie, but, like, what would you say is a place that it's just like you go in.
02:15:59:23 - 02:16:03:10
Dan Pope
You having a great time? I think. London. Yeah. Honestly.
02:16:03:10 - 02:16:04:15
Sat Bains
Yeah. Diverse is.
02:16:04:15 - 02:16:06:14
Dan Pope
Incredible. Where do you like to go.
02:16:06:16 - 02:16:23:21
Sat Bains
Second, I like so when I normally go I would go to the Ritz. I've been there a couple of times. I'm off to Yannick Leno's on in a couple of weeks on the counter. I might be controversial for I'm not a massive fan of Saint John.
02:16:23:23 - 02:16:24:15
Dan Pope
How come?
02:16:24:19 - 02:16:45:14
Sat Bains
I just don't know, I don't know. Well, It's me, it's me. I can't blame them. It's me. I just don't get it. You get crab for equate. It's not even practice. It's just court. You got to do it yourself. It's not the genius. Genius. You know, I don't. I'm not going to slag it off, but I just.
02:16:45:16 - 02:17:07:15
Sat Bains
I'm not one of them fans of that. But again, I. Devenish is good for a pint. Actually. He's got a great concept there with his big, you know, beef chops and what's going on. Good. I think it's brilliant there. We're there for our Christmas day for a it's a eight blokes that all smoke and drink together once a year we get together on a barbecue here and we have a Christmas.
02:17:07:15 - 02:17:15:02
Sat Bains
Do you say first year? Was it Corinthia? Second year. Was that Claude? Josephine? Yeah. This year.
02:17:15:04 - 02:17:16:03
Dan Pope
So this is all your mates?
02:17:16:03 - 02:17:17:02
Sat Bains
Yeah. From here.
02:17:17:02 - 02:17:17:24
Dan Pope
Oh, from out here.
02:17:17:24 - 02:17:19:20
Sat Bains
Yeah, yeah. So they're all in a little club.
02:17:19:20 - 02:17:24:01
Dan Pope
Yeah. I've got, I'm having dinner with that on Monday at the bar. Something. Oh okay.
02:17:24:01 - 02:17:24:22
Sat Bains
Cool. So the new.
02:17:24:22 - 02:17:26:00
Dan Pope
One I think so. Yeah.
02:17:26:00 - 02:17:27:11
Sat Bains
It's trivets new one. Yes.
02:17:27:11 - 02:17:28:22
Dan Pope
Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I'm there in.
02:17:28:22 - 02:17:29:09
Sat Bains
A few weeks as.
02:17:29:11 - 02:17:35:20
Dan Pope
Oh yeah yeah yeah. Because we, we're going to go to the. Yeah. He's we did it was in that on an easy fucking legend.
02:17:35:20 - 02:17:38:06
Sat Bains
But he as a chef he's fucking up as put it on the back.
02:17:38:06 - 02:17:40:24
Dan Pope
Oh say so like that. Like you like the creative.
02:17:40:24 - 02:17:42:04
Sat Bains
Oh he's a genius dude.
02:17:42:06 - 02:17:43:03
Dan Pope
But his pictures.
02:17:43:03 - 02:17:44:05
Sat Bains
Mate. Yeah they all work.
02:17:44:08 - 02:17:47:15
Dan Pope
He's photo. So he's, he's I think he's one of the best photographers I've ever.
02:17:47:20 - 02:17:48:18
Sat Bains
Said to of John.
02:17:48:18 - 02:17:49:00
Dan Pope
Mate.
02:17:49:00 - 02:17:50:02
Sat Bains
And I was I was a fucking.
02:17:50:04 - 02:18:14:01
Dan Pope
Like a mate. I said you should make a book right? She is. She's pretty shit. Yeah. And so we're doing as I said. You lock it big, then, leave it for a sort of revenue stream for our business next year. These sick, like, really boutique events. And I was like to ashes. I was a lot of pain, but I would I want these pictures are you can because you can just encapsulate I don't know it's just a different creative outlet.
02:18:14:07 - 02:18:17:10
Dan Pope
But they are fucking amazing pictures like out of this world.
02:18:17:11 - 02:18:37:19
Sat Bains
But he kept he's got the eye and he's got, you know, he's got he's got the kit. But to use it that well he captures beautiful moments. Yeah I think that's what he's got his eye for detail. Yeah. But he's genuinely Top Chef. You know he's got the drive of the fat duck. The eye for detail, creativity and the discipline is dinner.
02:18:37:21 - 02:18:44:21
Sat Bains
And he's thought he's he's had such a brilliant career in all these different genres. He thought this complete package.
02:18:44:24 - 02:18:49:05
Dan Pope
What about, Claude talk to me about like what? What? Do you resonate with him? How do you.
02:18:49:09 - 02:18:57:10
Sat Bains
Mean? So just gone. You know, we met a long time ago. I award actually very similar characters in a larger novel of a bit of fun.
02:18:57:12 - 02:18:59:08
Dan Pope
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And,
02:18:59:10 - 02:19:16:20
Sat Bains
I think because also because of the French Connection. Because I love French food. And I think, you know, when we go to biscuits back in the day in Ludlow, and it was world class then, and then I used to go and see him in Mayfair. Then obviously it depended. And I think we do trips together, but we both love the same things.
02:19:16:20 - 02:19:36:11
Sat Bains
I really love that romanticism. Like we just been to Hong Kong. We did a dinner out there at the Four Seasons. We had seen some beautiful I'm not that Europe place is fucking incredible food. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, we've been to San Fran together. We've been all over the world. Japan together. And, And I think it's like a companion that you travel with.
02:19:36:12 - 02:19:43:12
Sat Bains
Yep. That, you know, you just have these brilliant memories of what brought us together was food. And we just travel the world.
02:19:43:12 - 02:19:45:06
Dan Pope
And you. Greatest thing in the world.
02:19:45:06 - 02:19:47:08
Sat Bains
Oh, shit. Let me do this road trip now. Which is next.
02:19:47:08 - 02:19:50:02
Dan Pope
Level. Yeah, yeah, I just spoke to Tom about that.
02:19:50:02 - 02:19:54:07
Sat Bains
Is there anything so close to Tom? Claire? Yeah. The doyen.
02:19:54:12 - 02:19:55:20
Dan Pope
Yeah, yeah.
02:19:55:22 - 02:20:13:23
Sat Bains
Legend. Daniel five is we did his road trip for third year. We just get cars, travel around France, go to three stars, and we have the best time when they travel in their driving for like 7 or 8 hours, stop of a three star stay over. And we're like, we're like kids, right? Yeah. It's almost like a common way.
02:20:13:23 - 02:20:24:06
Sat Bains
I saw it once when we were all adults, but it's almost like if you had a reflection rule like 12. Yeah. The reflection. Yeah, because we're all giddy. Giddy as in.
02:20:24:08 - 02:20:26:00
Dan Pope
Exotic, you know, not getting I'm in the.
02:20:26:00 - 02:20:26:14
Sat Bains
Restaurant.
02:20:26:14 - 02:20:29:02
Dan Pope
Giddy. Such things. I think we should be chasing Giddy Moon.
02:20:29:02 - 02:20:39:01
Sat Bains
Yeah. And we're sitting there and we're like, oh God, I haven't. I, I don't know, I'm like, oh, you can have it or not. Oh. And you fucking even now thinking about it, I'm for joy.
02:20:39:01 - 02:20:39:19
Dan Pope
Yes.
02:20:39:19 - 02:21:04:06
Sat Bains
Because it's a joy. That's that's very the celebration of all them years of working in a white box. Right. Kitchen to allow yourself a little bit of the joys of what restaurants bring home. And with friends that are all in the same vein of we're so lucky to be so lucky to sit here and choose that one and sit in this restaurant and spend time with each other like, say, time, you know, is the biggest gift you can give your friends in this house.
02:21:04:12 - 02:21:06:22
Sat Bains
Yeah, we're giving each of the gifts of our time.
02:21:07:00 - 02:21:07:21
Dan Pope
Yes.
02:21:07:21 - 02:21:08:18
Sat Bains
And it's it's.
02:21:08:20 - 02:21:10:13
Dan Pope
Whose idea was it to do that?
02:21:10:15 - 02:21:26:09
Sat Bains
It was Tom's. You did it for his 50th, right? So we went to Marseilles. Yeah. And he used his car's back. Then we all drove one of his cars from Marlow to Marseilles, and we stopped off at two places. And then now it's our third year. Fourth year, next year. So then it's become this, like, annual event.
02:21:26:09 - 02:21:40:12
Dan Pope
Amazing. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I want to just quickly go on to the jujitsu. Yeah. What? How does that. Because I, you know, there's a guy called James Smith who's like a online now, an actual brand.
02:21:40:12 - 02:21:41:13
Sat Bains
Okay.
02:21:41:15 - 02:22:01:14
Dan Pope
But he talks a lot about jujitsu and marketing and some of the lessons he took from that was really interesting. I'd love to know, like, what's I know. And we briefly, I thought was a beautiful lesson on the. By doing jujitsu, it gives you empathy to make you appreciate someone who saw the struggle. Any any lessons on creativity?
02:22:01:14 - 02:22:03:01
Dan Pope
Cause it feels like it is kind of.
02:22:03:01 - 02:22:33:24
Sat Bains
I've had there is creativity, but again, I don't think you get to that level. So you've become half decent. So my coach is creative in his jitsu, but he's already a black belt first anyway. But yeah, so I think there's a point you've got to go to where you then the creativity may flow. But because I'm being taught, I'm quite rigorous with my understanding of the thing and I try not to be unorthodox, but probably one of my.
02:22:34:01 - 02:22:54:04
Sat Bains
Stumbling blocks is I'm not getting being creative with it. So what if I'm not applying what I do here, there to allow me the flow from too rigid I'm to. Yeah, I can't do that. He's told me. And don't forget, with my cooking, I was never given any rules because I only went to college. I've never worked for anyone so.
02:22:54:09 - 02:23:05:15
Sat Bains
So I've been free. So because of my creative output through my this work, I've got to hear I might need start applying some creativity in my jujitsu. I'm like, well done.
02:23:05:17 - 02:23:14:08
Dan Pope
Not only fun, but I do think that I think they and then anything from jujitsu to running leadership kitchens. Like, I know we talked about that, but I think because even then I.
02:23:14:08 - 02:23:17:01
Sat Bains
Can tell them I've had a really hard day at jujitsu.
02:23:17:04 - 02:23:17:16
Dan Pope
Yeah.
02:23:17:18 - 02:23:20:08
Sat Bains
Is, I think, empowering to them to know that struggle.
02:23:20:12 - 02:23:30:06
Dan Pope
Yeah. And then I just want to go just beginning to wrap up on leadership specifically because, you know, I went to, Lawrence's place last night.
02:23:30:07 - 02:23:31:16
Sat Bains
Oh, yeah, I was it fucking banging.
02:23:31:16 - 02:23:50:12
Dan Pope
Enjoyed. Really, really. Good night. Love you. Say hello. Say hello. Yeah. He came out like, got the, got a just a banging plate. Let the chips. Yes. Perfect. Yeah. It's really, really good. Lovely guy. And, you know, as I'm speaking to Saleh tomorrow, he's. I don't understand. He said he's worked at all these different kitchen. He will he has heard.
02:23:50:13 - 02:23:52:06
Dan Pope
You think you said.
02:23:52:08 - 02:23:52:22
Sat Bains
Mate.
02:23:52:23 - 02:24:13:23
Dan Pope
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Because only this place is the one where I've got one genuine friends and he was based single, one of the best mentors and leaders. He's, he's he's worked under, you know, a lot of people listen to this podcast, not even in the industry. They just listen for like, leadership lessons. Yeah. Because I think it's what they say is, is applicable to fucking and it's.
02:24:13:23 - 02:24:24:09
Dan Pope
Yeah. You know, he's I'm saying, yeah. Yeah. Not just the fun times. But what would you say? You're sort of like how do you principles of leadership.
02:24:24:11 - 02:24:28:23
Sat Bains
Is that it's hard. You know, I, I don't I don't write this shit down. Yeah, yeah yeah.
02:24:29:00 - 02:24:30:08
Dan Pope
Yeah. What do you feel when.
02:24:30:08 - 02:24:50:16
Sat Bains
You genuinely you want to be honest and authentic? Yeah. That will convey and shine through if you're if you're fickle and you have ego and you are malice, you're. Yeah. Because you, you're not genuinely looking after people. You're just showing off your skills to say your shit. And we all did that 1 million that we all had to do that survival mode.
02:24:50:18 - 02:25:26:05
Sat Bains
So as the AGM, the met, the, the what I want for my future and what I want for my guys is I want to nurture and progress their futures because that is my obligation to our industry. I don't want to sit here going for the rest. I don't care. That's what I've got as an obligation to my career is to push on the next generation, to hopefully give them reasons to be better, and keep pushing because there is a point in life to had to have had to be had from this industry.
02:25:26:07 - 02:25:32:08
Sat Bains
It's short. Life is grabby and just be authentic.
02:25:32:08 - 02:25:36:11
Dan Pope
What's the biggest mistake young Michelin chefs make?
02:25:36:13 - 02:25:40:00
Sat Bains
And then I don't think it's Michelin. I think it's just chefs. I think.
02:25:40:00 - 02:25:40:14
Dan Pope
Yeah.
02:25:40:16 - 02:25:58:15
Sat Bains
You know, you've also remember it's not a race. A friend of mine that passed away. Peace of mind, you say, all the time is laughter a journey, not a destination. And I love that because enjoy the journey because you don't know how long it is. And I love that. As you get older, you start becoming a bit more philosophical.
02:25:58:15 - 02:26:19:12
Sat Bains
But there's so much more to it now. This. Enjoy the journey. Be nice on the way home. Be nice, enjoy. But be true. Be honest. Be authentic. But for me and Amanda, especially as we have the person that's in front of us, their career in our hands, we've got to be authentic and honest. If they need help, they'll get out there bollocking.
02:26:19:12 - 02:26:41:06
Sat Bains
They get bollocking. If they need nurturing, they get an industry. But it's authentic. Hence why we've got so many of our chefs still in touch with us. We will. Yeah. You know, they can ring Saturn passing through and popping in. I've got a problem. The the phones at the end of their speed dial. It's not a case that I'm this guy that doesn't talk to them, that they're lifelong.
02:26:41:08 - 02:26:47:24
Sat Bains
That's the legacy that little lives is there always go accessibility to RSP. Yeah for the rest of their lives I mean yeah.
02:26:47:24 - 02:26:49:03
Dan Pope
Yeah, yeah 100%.
02:26:49:03 - 02:26:59:23
Dan Pope
mate it's been actually joy like I think because I think as I said I came here as a customer and it was set first which was wonderful. When I saw this I you know I'd call it MC Narnia.
02:27:00:00 - 02:27:18:22
Dan Pope
Some people call it, you know, it's an oasis Disneyland for fucking adults, whatever you want to call it. But there is this sort of magic escapism from the customer side. What we got into today when I felt like we it. But then from your side, this is like a world class Premier League football teams, chefs, and then you see that from his call it down the middle line.
02:27:18:22 - 02:27:28:09
Dan Pope
The scenes are all this role play. Everything thought about the energy keeping it moving. And then that flows to the customer side. It's just mate. It's been a joy. Thank you so much.
02:27:28:10 - 02:27:30:12
Sat Bains
Pleasure. Thank you.
02:27:30:14 - 02:27:30:23
Dan Pope
That was.
02:27:30:23 - 02:27:32:09
Sat Bains
Sick. No thank you.
02:27:32:09 - 02:27:34:02
Dan Pope
Man. That was so, so good.
02:27:34:04 - 02:27:34:15
Sat Bains
Thank you.
02:27:36:03 - 02:27:36:18
Sat Bains
Time flies.
02:27:36:18 - 02:27:38:00
Sat Bains
When I went for dinner.
02:27:38:02 - 02:27:40:22
Dan Pope
Yeah. Oh, mate, that was unreal.
02:27:40:22 - 02:27:58:00