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We share stories of how the blood of Jesus has transformed ours and others' lives.
Hey everybody. Welcome to our ledger. I'm Denalee, and this is my co-host Lissa Frasure. Hi there. Hey, we're, I'm super excited to talk to you today. I think what's coming to my mind today, 'cause we haven't fully decided on what we were gonna speak on, but what has really coming to me is a podcast I watched recently with Lecrae and, um, Francis Chan mm-hmm.
Who used to be a pastor at Mega Church. He walked away from it, which I thought was super interesting. And part of the reason he walked away from it is 'cause he wasn't being able to effectively pastor the people. Right. He said, I can't pastor to a number. I, I need people's names. Right. So, how do you effectively pastor, I think about people who go to the mega churches and to, um, these big churches and there's not really an effective way of pastoring.
And then I think the pastoring is kind of kicked down the road. Right. Yeah. And anyway, so I was really impressed because I've been coming to that thought myself that I need to go to a smaller church. Yeah. Um, anyway, right. And it's kind of in the midst of me doing some, some soul searching about where I'm at.
And the part that really resonated with me is he kind of took a timeout because he didn't know a hundred percent if he was going to heaven an or if God loved him. Oh. And he was a huge pastor, had a huge following, been studying the Bible for how long? Right. And he wasn't sure. Mm-hmm. And the thing that hit me was I wasn't sure, I wasn't a hundred percent sure either.
I have all the right teachings. I have all the right words. Yeah. But was I a, am I a hundred percent sure that God loves me? No, I am a hundred percent sure he loves you. I am a hundred percent sure he loves you as well. Yeah. But yeah, I just. Really kind of struggled with it after I saw that. Yeah. And I thought, well, this is kind of what's missing.
This is probably the missing part of where I'm trouble having trouble with forgiveness. Mm-hmm. With, you know, somebody, I am probably having these troubles because I feel like I did know this five years ago. You, you think you knew that God loved you? Yes. You had a revelation of it. I had a revelation of it.
I, 'cause I was sitting there pondering this morning going, who, what is the deal here? God. And I spent really a lot of time with him lately. Mm-hmm. Like just with God, just hanging out. Yeah. Not looking for an answer to if I should do this or do this in my business. Yeah. Just hanging out with him. Mm-hmm.
And that secret place. Yeah. And the secret place. Yeah. That's what I was just gonna say. And he has really been speaking to me, to me a lot. And I'm like, this is what was missing. This is the part that was missing is me spending time alone with him in a relationship. Yeah. Because that is the missing piece.
Well, that is the basis, yeah. Of, you know, Christianity. That is the basis of Jesus. That is the basis of God. He wanted a relationship. He, he walked with Adam in the garden. He was with him every day. He wanted a relationship. It's, it's the relationship he wants. You, you read in the whole, um, new Testament about Jesus being in the relationship with people.
When we are out of relationship with the Lord, when we are out of that, you are not hearing from him. It's just like when okay, you have, you have children, and when you don't hear from them or when you don't communicate with them. You don't know what's going on. You don't know where they're at. You don't know.
Well, you might if you stalk 'em like I do my kids and have Life 360, but mine are too old to stalk. Uh, I will always have that. I wish I, I wish I had that when they were young. I know, I know. Um, but, uh, you don't, you don't know what's going on with them. If you, if you haven't had a friend that you have that you've spoken to in a while, you don't know what's going on with them.
So you, you have to re-get to know them or catch up with them if you haven't, and then you're like, oh, oh my gosh, what, what have I been? Oh my gosh. Okay. Yeah. This is what's going on. And so here's the confusion part is I spend all day in prayer. Mm. So we ship Bibles. Okay, so this is gonna seem like a shameless bug.
And it is, it's kind of gross, but this is what we gotta do to monetize the channel. Yeah, we sell Bibles. Look at all these fun things. Yeah. Check out red ledger gifts.com if you're looking for a gift, but, okay. So I ship Bibles. Yeah, we, we do a lot of things and that's, this is what we do. It's part of what we do.
And my husband has, um, another business and I'm in a business with my brother, so. There's a lot of decisions to be made. So I'm in, I'm in constant prayer. Yeah. Like, what do you want me to do here? What do you want me to do here? And, and I feel led by God. Yes. But what was missing out is the actual relationship.
The relationship, the just hang out. Yeah. And I remember the first time I really understood this, um, I used to go on this big God walk on my birthday. Oh. Where, I mean, it was just me and God alone celebrating my birthday. And we'd go, I'd go on a really long walk and really hear from him in like a loud way.
Yeah. And 'cause I was like, this is so cool. Like, yeah. He just shows up for my birthday and my husband goes, you know, you can do that every day. I was just gonna say, how come not every day? Yeah. I know that that's when I had that revelation, like, oh, I could do this every day. Yeah. Why am I not doing this every day?
Yeah. And that's where I really grew in him. Yeah. Okay. And I really got tight with him and I wasn't so easily offended. You know, when somebody, um, would say something or do something, like, I just noticed last night this guy was riding his bike, coming down the, the street and I was turning and I didn't see him.
I mean, I, I think we were probably equally in error. Mm-hmm. And he was just throwing up his hands. Yeah. And I just felt the anger rise up in me and I was ready to roll down my window. And, and God gently disciplined me. He did. He goes. Oh, sis no. Yeah. No. You didn't wave at him with one finger? No, I wanted to.
I almost did. Yeah. I almost did. Like, I was almost like, who do you think you're yelling at me? Yeah. Um, you're the one riding your bike into traffic. Right? And, and I'm gonna tell you, if you're gonna hate me for something, it could be this. I cannot stand bike riders, um, on the main road. I can't either. Um, I don't, I don't feel like they belong there because I can't either.
If they hit my car, they get hurt. Yes. Not my car. I mean, my car might get a little ding dingling in there, but No, and by the way, I know I'm wrong, so don't be so mad at me. I know I'm wrong, but it's just this irritation. My husband, they drive him even more nuts. He has fantasies about taking his paintball gun to him, but I don't have that.
But I, I do. I'm like, you're a bike and I don't mind a bike. It is. If you go up our road here, they ride in a straight line across. And we have bike lanes. We have bike lanes, and they never ride in the bike lane. Yeah, stay in the bike lane. Don't be in my lane. Well, that was part of the problem. He was in my lane turning it, that, that's the whole thing.
Okay. It's a sidebar, it's an annoyance. Okay. So maybe I was in the right, but I wasn't in the right because of, because of your attitude. Yeah, for sure. Mm-hmm. And God did stop me and that, you know, he talks to us. He's, he's gentle. Yeah. Yeah. That's, you know, that's, that's where I have the most profound moments is when I go into the secret place and say, what do you want me to know, Lord?
Yeah. What do you want me to know? Instead of just going there and having him be my genie and tell him all my problems and all the things that I need him to fix and correct. And with him, well, I do that as well. I do that as well. I do that. Yeah. And that's where we're supposed to go. And that's what we're supposed to do.
But we're also, it's supposed to be a two way. Yes. And I've asked him, you know, multiple times, the family and I, when we're going shopping or doing something, I say, oh Lord, show us somebody that you want us to talk to or you want us to lay hands on, or you want, show us and we will do it. We are yours.
We're here to serve. Amen. And so those are the moments where, you know, I we get to serve him. 'cause that's, that's really, you and I have talked about this multiple times. When you give your life to Jesus, it's no longer yours. It's his. And so, and he's the one that purchased it. He purchased it at a mighty We cost, we said yes when we're saved or like we, we.
Accept you as our Lord. Yeah. We receive you as our Lord. Yeah. We believe you are our Lord. But do we Right. But do we, so here's the, here's the tricky one. And we did do a podcast on this, um, probably a year or two ago. So you think I would've learned by now about sometimes it's okay to say no to good things.
Right? I got super busy. Mm-hmm. Like super busy working in two different ministries at the church Yeah. And, um, the businesses, right? Mm-hmm. Us doing this podcast, which we love doing. Yeah. And then that doesn't even include, I want time for my sons, for my husband, for my friends. Right. And there just wasn't enough time for my mom.
You know? She probably feels completely neglected because I had minimal time. Yeah. Minimal time. And so I didn't have that time to sit with God. Yeah. That, that is what I noticed. I recently, I worked at a church and, and that's what I found myself doing was. I was there because I just wanted to serve the Lord and I wanted to serve leadership.
Yes. And I, and, and that's not their fault. That's my fault. Well, I mean, I know where we're going with this, but it on, on my part of it, the, the part that I can change is I need to be on him. Amen. And my eyes came off of him. That's why I, when I, when I got into mm-hmm. That, that one, um, recently I shared with everybody, uh, I think it was June 4th or something, when the Lord had said to me, Lisa, you turned away from me because of man, not because of me.
And I was like, oh, I didn't realize I did that. But I wasn't getting into the secret place 'cause I didn't have time. 'cause I had to be at work, had to drop my daughter off. I had to go here. Then I had to go help with this. And then I had my own little ministry that I had to do. I was teaching on this, I was teaching, you know, and it was just like.
And, and my kids and my husband and my house. It suffered. It does. And because we need, we need that time with God to refresh. Yes. To regroup. Yeah. To make sure we're on the road. He wants us to Yeah. So that we can see his vision for our lives and not just this finite, um, you know, 'cause we pray over everything we ship out here.
Right. Yeah. And, and I do want to be in line with him. 'cause sometimes I get a word for people and I Yeah. You know, and whether they receive that or notice that or not doesn't really matter because I am going still pray it over them. Yeah. Yeah. But, um, I, I don't think we can be effective as Christians if, you know, like, I, I do believe my day is praying without seizing.
Yes. Like, I, I pray through a lot of conversations. I pray through those things, but it is very different than a relationship. And I think it's like. An employee employer. It's transactional if you don't have that relationship. Yes. And nobody wants to feel that way. I don't, it's, it's like if your kids only call you 'cause they need money.
Yeah. Like who wants to be in a relationship with their kids? Like only, that's not really a relationship. I wanna be a checkbook for my kids. I'm not an at tm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And my kids are not like that. Thank you, God. Yeah. Yeah. Praise God. I mean, I'll help them if they need it, but Of course. Yeah. But yeah.
But they call me to talk to me too. Yeah. Like I just was on my phone with one of my sons. Yeah. Tyler. He also edits, and you'll see him on the podcast quite a bit, but um, and he was just tell me a story about his life and what he's doing, what he is working. And I think how blessed am I that this is the, our relationship that you're calling me to tell me about your day and you're 25 years old, 26.
Oh, and I should know, this is where I'm not good. I don't ever remember my anniversary either. Please. Like, these are the things you'll love to hate about me. Yeah. Yeah. Those are mine. That's why mine's by my birthday. Yeah. I just, and I remember it. We just didn't celebrate those things when I was a kid, so they didn't No, we didn't either.
Yeah. I do celebrate my kids, but Yeah. But, um, I, I know his birthday date. Yeah. I could probably figure it out Anyway. Yeah. Nonetheless, I, I really think about how I love these relationships. Yeah. That we get to talk about interesting things. We get to talk about God together, but God wants that with us too.
And we are made in his image. He wants us in that same way. Yeah. And when he says, we are made in his image, and if this is what, you know, we desire, I desire a relationship with my spouse. I desire a relationship with my children. I desire a relationship with my friends. It's, it's so important. So why wouldn't God want that?
And that's when, when he tells me those things. I feel, uh, the love. Mm-hmm. And it is about a feeling. And I'm unashamed to say that it is about a feeling. We can have feelings. I can have feelings. And I am so thankful that I am able to feel that love from him when I am. And it's just me in, in a room. And it's not like I'm doing, I, I'm just, I, I get into the worship and, and I just really put my focus on him.
And then I say, okay, Lord, what do you want me to know? And I just breathe. And then I write it down. You know, I've told, I told my husband this multiple times 'cause he's been going around the house telling her, you gotta write this down. You gotta write this down. And so I had said, because we're going through this transition.
And so I was like, well, okay babe, you know, as the helper, okay, I'm gonna help. So I said, Hey, um, maybe you might wanna consider going and getting into the secret place and then writing down what you get. And he's like, okay. And he kind of chuckled 'cause he knew I was going with it. And so then I'd come home and I said, oh, did you go to the secret place?
He goes, yeah, I did. I said, oh great. Did you talk to the Lord? He goes, yeah. I said, oh, so he talked to you? He goes, yeah, he did. I go, oh, did you write it down? He didn't write it down, but what he told me, I had remembered. And so I just brought it up to him. In fact, it was yesterday. I said, oh, you know, the Lord said that, um, to you that he was opening up doors.
Could it be with this thing that you're, you know, and he's like, oh. I go, did you write that down? No. No. So let's talk about that. What is the secret place to you? The secret place is where I am solely focused upon him. Um, in, in Psalm uh, 91, it talks about the secret place, and that's where you abide in him.
And you know, if you are under his wings and you are under him, and you are in the shadow of the Almighty, the Almighty, Ooh, I just got chills on that. I just picture him and I am in his shadow like a father. You know, even like this picture that our, that the people cannot see. There's, there's Jesus, there's a picture here on the wall with Jesus and, and, and a lamb.
And, um, the lamb is protected because our Lord is right there. And so I enter in and it's my focus. And then that's when I, I mean, and it doesn't mean that I don't have, oh gosh, I need to, I need to go to this grocery store and get this. I'm like, oh, I gotta get back on the Lord. And I just meditate on him and I just say, thank you, thank you father for my life, for my fam.
And I just go through all the thank yous and I just focus on my gratitude. And then I get into this place of peace. And it used to take me a lot longer because it is a training. It is a training, but it's when I block everything else out and just give myself to him. It's a form of worship. Right. Yeah. So I love how you explained it.
I have nothing to add. Oh, really? No. That was beautiful. So beautiful. Um, so I think people do this differently and I think it's okay. Yeah, I do too. Like, so for me, I, I think I, I try to always as like you do come to his court with praise and Thanksgiving. Yeah. Because that's an honor. That's how we honor him and show our reverence, I believe.
Mm-hmm. And it's, it, it's what we're supposed to do. Um, according to also Psalms, right? Yeah. Um, so I like to hang there and just be there. Mm-hmm. And just be, and sometimes I just say, Abba Father. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Just come to me, come to me and, um, I just sit, I just sit there and I just sit and quiet. Uhhuh.
And then I do like to write. I feel like. He really speaks to me through writing. Yeah. And I just start to write whatever I think he's leading me to. Mm-hmm. Um, some people, my son does it through music. Oh, praise God. Yeah. Some people do it through art. I've seen, um, at the Vineyard I used to go to, which is a great church too, um, they have this artist, um, time where Appra, it was like a praise worship with artists.
Yeah. And they would just draw during worship and it was so beautiful. And I think it's just that time that you spend with him in that way. He speaks to you in quiet. That's where I've had the biggest revelation about things. I mean, I've gotten revelation from the word for sure. Mm-hmm. But that's where it's more personalized, obviously, because I'm waiting upon him.
I mean, I have a, I've, I have a ton of revelation through, through the word, but when I am so intentional in spending time with him. And I do listen to Dappy tee keys a lot. I listen, um, which his is through. He has amazing music. What is that? Oh, okay. Music. And it's, but it's without words. 'cause I'll get, I'll get listening to music and I'll be like, ah, just, yeah.
And I'll start saying, and nobody wants to hear that. Nobody does. I mean, actually take that back. You know what? Because I did say to the Lord, I'm like, listen, I know you have called me to worship you in song. Okay, well, I can't stand my voice. Can you please make it so can I please? I like my voice. Nobody asked.
Does I think it's unfair. I was actually gonna do one of those $37 classes to sing better. Oh, I'm not. I might do it. Just, just belt it out. It's online, in church. Just belt it out. I do, I always, I know we've talked about it before, but I love all these Christians say, oh, he loves his style. Give your voice.
I'm like, I'm not, I don't believe you. Well, and I have, I have really asked him. I've, and I've said, Lord, you ha you have to do this. 'cause I can't even stand it. How can you? So, you know, I'm like, come on, you gotta help us sister out. I actually think I sound really good, but it's, it is the others who give me the feedback that this is not a song unto him.
Well, this isnt what you think it is. Yeah. How'd you, how about you sit this one out, Nelly? It's like, there's so many ways to worship Nelly. God says, there's so many ways. Just put your hands up. Put your hands up. Lip sync. Yeah, no, just focus on the words girl. Just in your mind. Yeah. Just hum along. Hum along.
So I did ask after that podcast, um, because I knew there was some truth for me in that and I said, God, please, please bring Revelation to me. Like I, I get, I. I need, I, I need a new revelation. Mm-hmm. I need to feel close to you again, in, in that way. And of course the first thing was spend, like, if you want to know somebody or if you're supposed to love somebody, spend time with them.
Spend time with them. Yeah. Yeah. And I do think, I don't know why this just came to my mind, but if you think about arranged marriages that work a lot. Yeah. Um, it's interesting. Yeah. They don't, they're not in love. Right. But the parents knew the person. Yeah. They knew their person. Like thoughtful, like when it works out and it's very thoughtful.
Right. And the parent cares the best for this child. Mm-hmm. And arranges this marriage and says, Hey, I know that this is the right person for you. 'cause I know your personality, I know your giftings and I know this person's giftings and what a great marriage this would be. Yeah. Okay. I'm not saying we should do arranged marriages.
Okay. But my point is, oh, I might be, they do work out like there's a high percentage of them working out. Yeah. So if you think about that and they spend time and. Together, they fall in love. You, you can fall in love. Like if you're in a, in a, I agree. Marriage. You don't have to have lust to fall in love with somebody.
'cause love is an action. And if you've been married for over 30 years, raise your hand. Yeah. Oh no, I'm, I'm approaching it. Um, you fall in and outta love all the time. Yeah. Like there's times where he's just had it with me and there's times I've had it with him and Right. And we went through phases where we can't get on the same page 'cause it's going back and forth.
And then when we do come back together, it's so beautiful. It is so beautiful. And it's always when we put God in the center of our marriage. Right. Again, again. So the point I guess I was trying to make is, is that relationship with him is so, so important. Yeah. And the revelation, like you said in your secret time.
So I'm getting deeper revelation about who I need to be and who I was. So this morning I'm like, I, I was different five years ago. Like when you said run, I ran when you said Sit with me. I sat with you. Yeah. And there was um, a wild obedience that I had with him. Yeah. And there was no fear. Yeah. Perfect.
Love. Cast out all fear. Cast all fear. Fear. Mm-hmm. And so I noticed that there's a little fear and anxiety about my future in some ways. Yeah. That has come up that I just didn't walk in and I thought, oh, is that's 'cause I was young and then I'm reminded No, that's 'cause you were walking with God. Yeah.
Well I'm pretty sure that's one of the main reasons why I was called to no longer work at the church I worked at is because my relationship with him suffered. Yes. Isn't that. I didn't have time. I, I didn't make the time. I didn't make the time. I was so busy. Well, this is the problem with anyone who works in ministry.
Yeah. There is so much work to always be done, which I think this is why it's important that we help serve in the ministry. Yes. But I think maybe pick one ministry. Pick one ministry, and you don't have to serve every Sunday and every whatever day. No. If they have another service that week, huh. And then, you know, be on this and be on it, it really, because what ends up happening is, I think what the goal ends up being is pastor, look at me, look at me instead of, Lord, where do you want me?
Because the Lord does not want you doing everything. You know, I, my daughter has this, um, um, you know, the, the fomo, the fear of missing out. Mm-hmm. And, um, my, my husband's mother had that. She attended everything. And, and I've talked to Finley about that. I'm like, Hey, bga, let me tell you something. Sorry. Hey, bugga.
Hey Bugga. Not bugger. Hey Bugga. So said, Hey Bugga. Here's the deal. It's important to attend things with your friends and build these relationships. Fellowship assemble. That is so important. Yes. But you do not, you do not need to attend everything. You don't. And it's okay if you don't because the Lord says to rest.
And you know, I mean, what is your what? Oh, be still. Be still. That means stop going. Be still means don't move. Yes. So sometimes. You're not, I mean, I'm, and I'm not saying you can't attend all these things and you can't serve, but, well, I mean, you know, here's the problem. I think with our schedules, God doesn't design our schedules.
We do. Mm-hmm. How full are you? And then why? I had to look at this with God, why is my schedule so full? Yeah. Why? And I had to look at, oh, you are avoiding something in your life. Yeah. And you are being so busy. So you don't have to deal with it. You don't have to deal with it. Well, guess what? I no longer observing in any ministry.
Yeah. But I'm going to again. Totally. But I, I am resting right now. Yeah. In him. Mm-hmm. Because. This is where he's calling me. Well, I, he's calling me back, back to him. Well, I'm still, because I wanna help people. Mm-hmm. That is my goal, is to help people. Well, this is also a ministry. This is, this is a ministry.
Yeah. But even outside of that mm-hmm. People are seeking me out. Yes. And, and so, and I'm sending them right to you. And I have no problem with it, because that's what I'm called to do. Yes. And I wanna do it Right. And I'm, I'm helping people too. I'm Jo I'm totally joking. If you are one of the people that I'm working with right now.
Yeah. I'm totally joking. Yeah. Um, but yes, I mean, that's what we're called to, we're called to serve and, but also we have to have something to give. Yeah. If we are just giving all of ourselves Yes. Mm-hmm. There's nothing, we're not getting replenished. We're not getting refreshed by his word. Yeah. And, and sometimes I, I wonder how much of the things I did for what reason, you know, we kind of look back on that.
Recently you and I had a conversation. And I look like, what was I doing? Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's, that's where I was at. I mean, I had put on, am I helping anyone? I put, I put on weight, I was stressed out. I, um, I wasn't able to walk, I wasn't able to work out like, you gotta take care of yourself. I to take care of myself because I have a husband.
And to, first off, I am, I am a daughter of the most high. Second, I am a wife to my husband. Third, I am a mother to my children. And they need me. They need me, especially right now. Mm-hmm. They're still under my roof and I, I need to be available to them. And my house needed me. And, and then, you know, then the other things come into play and, and is God's, God's agenda.
And I know the Lord called me to raise my children. Yes. And to be a wife and help her to my husband. So here's a side note, like, like if I were to run the world, which. We know it would go about our fucking head. I'm totally joking. Totally joking. But I think part of the, but are you okay? Not really, no.
These are just my ideas and I know they're right. Um, no, no. I, I look at the ministry, like I look at the church. Okay. I think part of the problem is, is only a small amount of people say yes and volunteer. Yes. Mm-hmm. And then those same people get asked to do more and more and more and more. Mm-hmm. And more because how do you say no?
How do you say no? How do you say no and God, and you see it and you wanna help people. Yeah. And you, when you have you that servant heart, you, you, you're like, that's it. Yep. So I see where, how it started. Yeah. But at some point then I'm getting resentful because.
I'm just gonna be honest here. Some of the teaching is that serving is the most important thing, and it should come before, like, if you're having a problem in your marriage, don't quit serving. And I'm like, huh, I don't agree with that. Yeah. My, my husband didn't either. Yeah. I don't agree with that. And, and I didn't like it if, and that was kind of the message of how important serving was.
But I think what I found was throughout this is me listening to God is most important, most important, most important, and somebody else's idea of what I should be doing with my time. Mm-hmm. They do not know. No. They, they are not sitting in prayer time with me or probably even about me. Right. Okay. So we have to be careful about who we're serving and what we're serving and, and just because somebody is a man of God doesn't mean that they got it.
Right. Right. You know, they, they too. Fallible. They're men. They're men. So we have to get it right. Like, you know, if somebody comes to me and says, you need to be serving in this ministry. I'm not gonna just blindly take that information. I will pray about it. I will say, Hey, am I supposed to be doing this right?
Because I do wanna serve God. Yeah, I do. I do want to be used by him. Yeah. Yeah. 'cause that is where a lot of fulfillment happens in my life. Mm-hmm. Is, you know, I was working in the children's ministry and I love those kids. Yeah. Like, I truly do. And I, I will do that again one day. They're beautiful.
They're probably the most important part of the ministry. I believe that they are. Yeah. Mm-hmm. They really should be because they're the next being raised out. If we can, if we can teach them that they're loved, because not everybody comes from. A perfect home that gets to do all the things. This is why the church body's important, but who's saying it's perfect too?
That's, you know's, not that I'm perfect, I'm just, just saying like, if I can love some kid in a different way Yeah. If we can add to, if we can add to a single mom who, right. Who is limited on time, and I can say, Hey, you're loved here too. Yeah. If I can teach you what Jesus looks like, that's what the church is designed for.
Yes. It is designed to be the, I don't know, the grocery store for us to where we get fed. Yes. To where we go in, where we're not only the workers, we're putting the stuff on the shelves, we're helping people carry these bags out to their cars. Right. But we're also able to purchase and get and receive. Yes.
Um, not that you have to buy your, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying it should be like a, a, um, um, a place where you can go and where if you are a single parent. That there's women and men that will help step in and help you. Yes. If you are a widow, love you. And the church is called for, you we're called to care and love and do all those things.
Yeah. But if you don't have any of that replenishment in that time with God and that secret place, I was depleted. Yeah. For sure. And I had nothing. I had nothing left to give. And then I was angry at God. Yeah. Because I know, because during this time we had a couple of tragedies. Yeah. And then I'm exhausted and blaming him for it.
Mm-hmm. And you know, I didn't realize it in the moment, but I was, and so that pushed me further away from special time. Right. Like mm-hmm. Right. I'm not, that, I'm not seeking him. Yeah. And it became harder to, um, believe that I was loved. Yeah. I, I, I completely understand that. Um, and that's where, that's where I was at, wondering.
Hey, Lord, I don't understand what's going on. I don't, I'm really quite confused. And it's not that I wasn't praying. Mm-hmm. I did pray, but I was not taking the time like I did. It was actually even before I went to Bible college. I mean, you go to Bible college and then you work, and I mean, it is, it's a lot.
It is a lot. And then, um, and then I went to Bible college, worked and, um, served, served. And it was just so much plus homework, plus homework. Oh yeah. That was fun. Plus you have kids. Plus I have two kids, plus a husband, Uhhuh. So you do a lot of coaching too. Yeah. So you start stacking this up. Yep. And you know, and I listened to my leadership talk about, and they tried to persuade people to, to come and serve because it is important and it is biblical.
Yeah. Oh, that was what, that's where I was going. See, I guess I wouldn't be a great leader of the world if everyone, if everyone just in the church did donated one Sunday. Yeah. Like I bet you could have a church run and you'd only have to serve once a year. Yeah. But I mean, there's, there's a lot of, I mean, you want to serve more regular than that.
'cause you do get from serving too. You really do. Yeah. You, you, you build relationships. Um, you get to know, I mean, you get to pray with one another. Mm-hmm. Um, and so when you are in struggle mm-hmm. You connect with people? Yes. So, you know, when I, it's, yes. When I started serving, I didn't really know what to do, so I started as being a greeter and then I was like, okay.
'cause I didn't, at that time I was still having pretty bad panic attacks. So I'm like, why am I in the front? I, that's why put me in the back, put me in the back, put me in the back. In fact, I'd rather go clean toilets. So I did uhhuh, I went and did that, uh, and, um, praise God. Anyways, thank you. Great. It's, those were clean toilets.
They were, I cleaned them. I worked hard. There was a buddy of mine that her and I, she would go in there and, and Emily Uhhuh and we'd call it the throne room. And so throne room. So she'd say, meet me in the throne room. And that would be, it would be great. 'cause it echoes, echoes, echoes in the bathroom. And uh, anyways, we had a lot of laughs in there, but, um, yeah, you go and you start serving.
But the thing of it is, is so many other people are unwilling to sacrifice their time because they're already stretched thin. Right. You know, they have their children, their spouses, sports, their whatever. Yeah. The sports. Yeah. Because your kids are both involved in sports. Yes. So that I remember, that's a long time for me, but that's a lot of time.
Yeah. And if you have a puppy dog. Yeah. I have two. Yeah. I am just saying they take time too. Yeah. But there's a lot. So this is why I love what you told Finn, is that you have to pick and choose sometimes. Yeah. I think it's a good lesson to learn as you're younger. Yeah. Rather than at. 50 something. Yeah.
It's, I think it's, I think it's a great life lesson. Yeah. You know, as my son goes off to, to play baseball, if you wanna pursue, that's what I said, if you wanna pursue it beyond high school, you're gonna have to sacrifice playtime. You had to sacrifice it in high school, but as you get better and bigger, you are gonna have to sacrifice more.
Now that doesn't mean that you can't, that you're, ugh, but it does mean that your focus has to be on what your focus is. Right. Which is baseball and, and until you get to wherever it is that you want to get. But I've tried to teach them that because it's, it's, it's such a trap. And what's funny is here I am teaching them that as I.
Here's a hole. Lemme dig it. I'm gonna get in deep. Do as I say, not as I do. And I got myself right into that because I was going to help and help and help. And part of the problem is, and particularly in ministry, is you, I I, I have a hard time with the thought of somebody getting left behind. Yes. I have a hard time with somebody not picking up that slack.
Yeah. And will they, yeah, they probably will. But, but when you become a person that people depend on mm-hmm. It, it, it is difficult. It is. But because they do depend upon you. Mm-hmm. Because, um, I, I forget what the stats are, but they are really bad with, it's like out of the church, like 20% of the people serve 80% of the time or something.
A small percent. Yeah. It is such a small percent. It is like bad. That's what I'm saying. If the whole, it's very bad. Church did serve and it, okay, this is not even what the podcast is about, but. It is such a good way to build relationships if you're looking for like godly friends. Yeah. This is where I met my friends.
Yeah. It wasn't by going to church on Sundays. No, because my husband, he is, he likes his limited pool. Yeah. So we are in and out. Yeah. Yeah. But I, I desire girlfriends. Yeah. I desire to be around people. And so, um, it is a great way if you don't have, uh, a lot of Christian friends, I think it's a good place to start is to serve.
But back to the love. Yeah. So, Lisa, tell me how, and I, I wanna say this, I, I, I feel like I'm starting over with God, but not, I'm not really, yeah. Right. Um, during this busy time in my life, these last few years, I've gained a lot of knowledge. I've been studying his word. Yeah. A lot. Mm-hmm. Um, it's not the same thing as spending time with him.
I can study, study, study, study, but spending time with him and it is spending time with him. Right. I'm not saying it's not spending time with him. I'm saying there's that intimacy that I was missing. Yeah. Um, that intimacy is necessary for me to understand. He loves me. Mm-hmm. Okay. Mm-hmm. I can go to school, like to, let's say you go to Bible college and you can learn from a teacher.
Right. Doesn't mean you love him. Right. Like, I had literally had to pray to love one of my teachers 'cause he drove me insane. Yeah. Like, because it's, it's not a relationship. Yeah. It's you giving me information, me parsing to see if that information is actually true. 'cause we need to be, be and not just believe everything everyone tells you and then going home and studying that.
Right. You know, that's, that's part of the thing. It's, it's more transactional. Right. We didn't build a relationship. No. Okay. So do I love this person? Because he's a human being and what good form. Yes. Right. But it's that intimate love and friendship and fellowship that you don't really have, that I was missing with God.
Yes. And that's where I started to become insecure in my relationship. Yeah. So if you had a husband who you were only transactional with like, you know, um, you know, my husband and I are business partners. If we only talk about business, I start to feel like a roommate. Yeah. It's hard. Um, I've had a husband who has worked for the railroad, and I'm going to say that with that facial expression I made the railroad and it has been a very bitter match moving on work in progress.
I'm totally joking. Sorry. Um, but it has taken a lot, it's hard away from, you know, and I, there's been multiple times where I had said to my husband, I didn't get married to be single. And so it was hard for our relationship. We've really had to work because out of the 20 plus years that we've been together, 20 of them he has spent at the railroad.
It's crazy hours. It's crazy hours. Mm-hmm. And it's crazy days. And, you know, um, most railroaders, um, um, they don't stay married. They don't, you know, my father-in-law worked on the railroad and did not stay married, but my husband, um, had considered working on the railroad once. Yeah. And after we lost everything.
And he remembered how many people did not stay married. Yeah. And that was part of the reason he said no to the job. Yeah. Because you don't have your relationship. It's, it's very Yes. Minimal. And so you have to fit everything in, in this short period of time. Because what takes precedence is the railroad.
Always. So it needs, so you're, so when you're on different sleep schedules Yes. And you're only connecting about the bare basics? Yes. There's a lack of intimacy. Yes. Of, and Oh, there's a, a book into me. I see. Oh, I've heard of that. Yeah. But into me, I see meaning into you. I see. Like I'm seeing you. Mm-hmm.
It's not a transaction. Nope. Right, right. We're listening and hearing from God and having fun with him. Yeah. I, I just, I've been, this is the third time I've read this book. Um. And I have grown so much with God each time I read it before Bible college, then I read it in Bible college and now out of Bible college and it's new creation realities.
We'll put a link for it. It's um, by ew Kenyon, it was written many years ago. I'll tell you what, he, he, there's this, um, it says here, and this is actually about, in this chapter, chapter, um, what is this? 12 God reproducing himself in us. And so it's talking about how, how God takes his place in us and what he's looking for and what, what we should have and be able to experience with him.
And it says, um, you see, when we come quietly in our heart life to the place where we say yes to him, then he reveals himself in us. And I was like, that is so loving. He only does it with the people that get to know him. He only does it with the people that come to that place when we say yes to him. And I don't mean, okay, I'm gonna get my Bible and read 'cause I'm gonna do all the check marks.
But when we're like, you know what? No. Oh my gosh. That I was doing Check mark life. Yeah, go ahead. I was doing check marks. Yeah. And that's where you have to go. Something's wrong. I gotta set this's wrong. I'm gonna set my phone down. I'm gonna take my watch off. I'm gonna tell my husband, please. Yeah, I need an hour.
I gotta go. I, I'm going into this bedroom. There's three hours today. And you'll notice, I will say this, you will notice if you have a closet. There's a great, there's a great movie too called The War Room. And this lady talks about, about finding your little closet because you know, the word talks about that as well.
Um, but if you have this room or a closet that you go into, that is where I've had some of my most profound prayer time. Experiences with God. When we first came to Christ, we lived in, in this house that we had built, and there was a, um, room underneath the staircase, and I had taken most everything out and I put a light and I had a little speaker in there.
And at that time, my daughter was four and my son was seven or eight. And so anyways, um, Finley would come in there with me and she recalls and I had post-it notes up there with scripture that I was trying to get more revelation on, or I was attaching it to somebody that I was praying for who needed help.
And it was, I would come outta there and I would have energy, I would have peace, I would have revelation. I would, and you know, I, and then when I moved. I, I still did somewhat of that. And then when I came back, when I started going to Bible college and I started doing all this stuff and I got into the do, do, do, and then, oh, we've got this conference and we've got this conference and we've got this event and this event.
And you gotta, you gotta be at every single event. You gotta do it. It's too much. It's too much. Nothing. I can't, it's too much. It's too much. Too much. So I think busyness is the number one reason probably for most people to not spend time with God. Yeah. I'm too busy. Um, that's me spouting a made up statistic right there.
And I know that
it's my number one reason. Yeah. Yeah. Because I love God. Yeah. And I wanna spend time with him and, um, I want to know his love. So this takes me back to the insecurity and my love. So, which is kinda what we're basing this podcast on loosely. Yeah. Um. I do this today. It came to my mind that, 'cause I did, after I saw that podcast, I prayed God, I said, God, please bring me supernatural revelation.
Bring me revelation of your love. And He's so good. Okay. I of course want a big bomb to happen all at once, but he gives me piece by piece by piece. Yeah. Um, as usual. Yeah. And reminding me that this is that quiet time we need. Um, but it is the gentle discipline as well. Mm-hmm. Like, I love that he cares so much about me that he takes time.
To discipline me gently about somebody riding on the road. Yeah. That I can be like, oh no, you know, you represent me this, you represent me. So he's not screaming at you from the pulpit. Just don't forget you represent me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's not, God is not condemning. No. God is loving like the Yeah. If I think about the discipline and how he does it, I wish I would've done that with my children.
I know. Like, I wish I would've been a gentle disciplinarian saying, no, son, you represent God. Yeah. When you go out there. Yeah. That's who you represent. I agree. And that's not who you are being in this moment. Like that is the sum of it. Yeah. And he's like, gives me a hug and loves me and I'm, I'm on my way.
Because you receive the correction because you're like, oh. And it's not him screaming at you on you piece of crap. You, you should be able to do this on your own. You shouldn't have to have my help ho hold are you shouldn't have, you know, like, yeah, no, now he's just so full of love. Yeah. And so I, now I'm seeing his love, you know, come through my son and then I, you know, I always pray for him to draw my sons closer.
Yeah. I mean, it's a constant prayer, Uhhuh and they both believe, but I just love this week since I've been praying this, um, my oldest son who, you know, he's not on the podcast very much, but he said he would be on one. Oh, praise God. And I've asked him really good. I've been asking him for two years. And, but it's his thing, like I don't, I don't pressure him.
Like if Yeah. He's just got a great story. Yeah. And he was telling me about what he's reading in the Bible and sharing those things with me. And it just, it's like makes my heart so happy. Totally. Because he doesn't get to go to church because he works on Sundays. So he has to pursue this on his own. Yeah.
And watch tv, church. Yeah. And do those things. And so, and I worry about him, but at the same time, boy, he's just got such a firm, firm grasp on who he is in Christ. Well, I had to, we had to do that for a while. Yeah. We had to have church online. Yeah. And you know what I, it seemed to me, okay, this is, I'm not promoting this.
I, I am promoting. If you do, um, if you are able to go, go, that is so much more important. The fellowship is so important. So important. Or I would not have you Yeah. Ditto. If I did not go Yeah. I would not have you. Yeah. It's so important. However, I will say this, when I did not have a church that I went to when I was, we, we, there just wasn't a place that we were like, oh, this is what we call home.
And Yeah. And over there it's, it's one religion that's dominant and I am not. Oh, okay. I'm not, so we live in, uh, you know how some areas are like, predominantly Catholic. We live in an area here. I know you're not talking about like this place predominantly Mormon. Mm-hmm. Or predominantly. You know, there's just areas where if you're not part of it, you're not part of it.
Yeah. And they don't have much to choose from. And so, and I wasn't looking for religion because I came out of re I didn't want religion. Um, I wanted a relationship and I wanted to be taught how to get that with him. And so I watch church or I listen to sermons. I mean, you people aren't usually drawn to a religion, are they?
No, they're not. No. You're either, I don't know how it, I don't know how it happens. I never subscribed to it. I tried and I'm so thankful that I didn't, because, um, I, I, I don't think it aligns biblically at times. Mm-hmm. Um. I'm not saying that the people aren't great. I have my, more than half my family is religious.
Okay. Well, let's just say this. We're talking about the Mormon religion. Yeah. Let's just put out there. I have more a lot of Mormon friends. Yeah, I too. And I believe they're saved. I believe they think Jesus is their savior. They believe that. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, I don't believe in everything that church teaches.
No. But honestly, I don't believe in everything that, that my church teaches. Yeah. Ditto. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, yeah. I, it, if it's not in line with the word I'm buying, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not doing it. I'm not either. And that's where, that's, that's it. And, and it was very much forced upon me, my grandparents, when I was younger.
And, and, um, it wasn't for you. It wasn't for me. Mm-hmm. So I started watching church on TV and we would watch multiple ones. But then I started listening to sermons because I lacked the relationship. Hmm. The interaction. This is the problem. So, so what I was starting to do was I was like, okay, so I would type in YouTube, whatever question I had.
Mm-hmm. Trying to seek out what somebody else had to say so that, 'cause I needed questions answered and so, but now I don't have to do that as much because I now can call up friends and say, hey. Oh, okay. So I see where you're coming. So I had two thoughts on that. There's a podcast that's gonna come out hopefully a week before this one about wise counsel that you do.
Oh, Uhhuh. So there are different ways to seek wise counsel and I was thinking about this later, like I seek wise counsel in my business a lot. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, and that means not only from you or from my younger son who is very wise. Yeah. And he follows God or my husband. Mm-hmm. Um, I also seek experts in this field because.
I want to get all of the ideas and then I bring them under God's. Under God's. Mm-hmm. Authority. Yeah. And, and, um, opinion. Yeah. Meaning is this the right way you want me to go? Right. But I, I do think that, I wasn't looking at it that way 'cause I was looking at, I think a trap that happens with people with the TV ministry is you start watching it and that, that becomes your relationship with God.
Mm. But you can do that in a church too. You totally can. I, yeah. And that's what I did. Yeah. But, but I did with, when I was opposite and didn't have a church, I felt like I pursued him more. Mm-hmm. Because I relationships. Me, me too. That's interesting. Uh, I, you know, I am such a seeker on truth. Mm-hmm. Um, Matthew Seven.
Seven. Um, that is one of the verses that changed my life. It changed the direction and course of my family's life. And I wanna read it to you because I don't wanna mess it up 'cause I pulling it around, but, um. Um, it says Here, ask and it will be given to you. Seek and you will find knock and it will be open to you for everyone who asks, receives.
And he who seeks finds and to him who knocks it will be opened. And I always had, because this was my, my deal, my, my husband and I, we married and we had Catholic background, Mormon background. And I was confused because I had, um, um, I had been condemned as a child. And then, um, I, I never felt part of something.
I never, I just didn't. And so I was trying to figure out what Lord, where do, where do you, where do I belong? Because I had heard this is the true church. And I'm like, okay, what is the true church? Well, I'm like, okay, well I'm just gonna do what the word says. I'm just gonna seek, I'm gonna knock and I'm gonna find, and I expect him a.
To show me. And he does. And, and so whenever I would watch these things online or hear these things, I would knock, seek and find because I'm looking for the truth. And that is what I am expecting to find is the truth. Now there's been times where I've gone down those roads and, and it's like, oh, okay. I think this is no.
And that's why I've said our beliefs are ever changing. So to sit there and hold 'em in a stamp and be like, Nope, this is the right thing, and this is the only first off, this book is too big. This book is too big. And we do not know it all. No. For anybody to say we do, not that I have it. 100% correct. This church has it, one, it's, it's responsible and only from the Holy Spirit.
Nobody else does. Right. It's irresponsible. Run, run. Mm-hmm. I love that. Ask. Seek a knock. 'cause that's kind of what happened. So I asked. I said, I saw something, he revealed to me something I was missing because I, my life is feeling a little weird right now. Yeah. 'cause a lot of weird, I'm having a lot of changes in my life.
Yeah. And so I asked, yeah. Okay. And then I was seeking him. Yeah. Because he basically said, Hey, time to spend time with me. So now I'm spending time seeking with him. Yeah. And I'm knocking on the door. I'm like, is this it? Is this it? Is this it? And he is opening Yeah. And he is opening. Yeah. Now, um, I may have been 90, 85 to 90%.
I'm about 95% there. Yeah. I, I am expecting more revelation into be closer to who I was. Mm-hmm. With him before. Yeah. Now, um, God loves us in so many ways and I feel it in so many different ways. Can you tell me some ways that he shows you he loves you? Well, he shows me, uh, especially when I go into that secret place and he tells me.
And, and it is confirmed in the word, and I don't even know that it's confirmed. And then I find that, I find it in, in, and I'm like, oh, hey. You know? And, and I, and I always wanna make sure, you know, because I did dabble in, as, as you guys know, I did dabble in new age stuff. Mm-hmm. So I was always, I was open to hearing from the spirits.
And I'm not anymore, I only wanna hear from the Holy Spirit. Yeah. But I know that there are, I know there is a spiritual realm which is more real than this realm because the word says that. And so I'm like, okay, so I have to be careful with that. And so everything that I listen to, it has to be backed up here or I have to throw it out.
And he has shown me, and so many times it is this and I'm like, oh, he's you, God. Thank you. He does that there. He uses my children, he uses friends who have given me confirmation, given me words. Um, you, um, uh, Rebecca, um, my friend Carla, my friend Chris, like, there's been multiple people where, um, I just, you know, my friend reached out to me, Chris reached out to me the other day.
She was thinking about me and I knew that was a God thing because she had been on my heart and I didn't, I didn't say her name, but she had been on my heart. And, and when, when that happens, I'm like, okay, thank you Lord. I know. Yes. 'cause I'm feeling alone and I'm feel going through whatever I was going through.
And, Hey friend, how are you doing? I was thinking about you. And I'm like, or when I say things like, Hey, holy Spirit, will you please tell De Lee to call me because I need to talk to her? And no joke, two minutes later you're calling me. It was beautiful. So this is, I love this how he works this out. So I was in a, a, my happy dog had died.
Yeah. And I, I get quiet and I isolate. Yeah. And, and sometimes maybe that's out of pride, but sometimes it's just like I'm, I was just in pain. Yeah. And um, the weird thing is, is I had just prayed to God right before then. Like, God, where's this comfort? You talk about where's this comfort? I just told, talked to people about in this podcast?
And he goes, huh, well you, uh, have a friend you could call. And then you were praying for me to call you, and then I called you. Yeah. Because I was like, I had so many questions and frustrations. And you'd been through this before. Yeah. And I had not been through losing an animal that had been with me 16 years before.
Right. I had not under, you know, she was, she's on the podcast. She's like my life. Yeah. She's part of my life. Yeah. And I didn't, I didn't know. Some of the thoughts I were having and we were like, is this normal? Yeah. Am I supposed to cry all day? Yeah. Do I, you know, just weird stuff. Yeah. And he gave, this is the love.
Yeah. He reminded me that I am trying to comfort you. You're not listening. Yeah. Listen. Yeah. I was, I felt bad for you. 'cause you call me and you're like, Hey Lisa. And I'm like, Hey. And I'm all excited because I was like, the Holy Spirit is so rad. What he did was awesome because I had just literally just had said, holy Spirit, will you please have dentally call me?
'cause I didn't wanna bug you. I didn't wanna invade your privacy. I mean, I kind of did by asking the Holy Spirit to do that. But he wouldn't, he's a gentleman. Well, I needed you. He wouldn't do something. He wouldn't do, he wouldn't do something that, that, um, a gentleman wouldn't do. So it brought me comfort.
It brought me the comfort I was seeking. Yeah. And wanting. And because I, it was painful and I couldn't kind of get out of it for a minute. I'm, I just. Yeah, I'm gonna cry. I needed to be held. Yeah. It's tough. And you held me in that moment and I am so grateful. Yeah. So this happened to me the other day where, um, somebody had been in my mind for a while.
Yeah. Like for a couple of days, like a bunch. And she gave me a gift at Christmas and all day I thought I was just busy that day and I thought, I need to call this person. I need to call this person. And she gave me these exfoliating gloves. Yeah. And I didn't have any clean wash cloths, so I had to wash everything with these scratchy gloves that night.
But I was really exfoliated and I lost my upper layer of skin. I'm like, oh, I got a collar. And then I wonder, I know this is a little farfetched, but I think it is God, like all day long I wanted to go change the laundry. 'cause all of my washcloths were in this Yeah. Washing machine. And I never got it done.
And I think. Isn't that interesting? Yeah. I would've forgotten to call her that night. Right. And just happened, so happened that she was really going through something and went to the church and couldn't get any help and they kind of turned her away and it was insane. So I called her and she told me what had happened.
Mm. And thank God, 'cause she was losing her faith. And so I'm super grateful that I heard him. Yeah. And it was kind of the perfect timing that she goes, I'm so glad you called. She goes, I prayed for God to have somebody call that loves me. And it was, I know this was, you know, something. She needed to feel loved.
And, but also I needed it. I needed to see God in that. Like I needed to see God in the whole situation because she got turned away by the church and it broke my heart. Yeah. Um. So I needed to see God. Yeah. And so we had blessed both of us. Yeah. And so I felt loved too that and honored. Yeah. Like you chose me, right.
You chose me to, well, that's why having that, having that relationship with God is so important so that when he does call you to do something, you hear it. Mm-hmm. Um, there was, um, uh, years ago, a friend of mine, his son had had passed away. Their son had passed. It was an overdose. And I was at the house and I was so, I was new in Christianity, I was new in it, and I believed in the laying on of hands and raising the dead.
I mean, that's what happened with Lazarus. And, and so I'm like, okay. And Jesus said we would do greater works than these. Yeah. And so I was like, okay. And, but my husband and I, we were the only ones there that were like believers in that, you know, these others didn't really believe in that. And I wasn't hearing from God at that point.
I, I don't think, 'cause I was so confused and I was, so there wasn't a peace on me. Mm-hmm. And so I didn't act that out and I didn't lay my hand when there was the body and they had brought him. Did you feel a prompting though, that you were supposed to Yes, I did. Okay. And I didn't act on it. Now I'm not saying I'm responsible for this young man's death.
Mm-hmm. I'm not saying that, but I am saying I wonder if I missed the mark on something. And, um, and it's because I didn't engage in that relationship with him as much as I needed to. Mm-hmm. And that's why it's so important, because we don't know who's needed, who's, you know, 'cause he uses us to communicate to the body.
I mean, yes, we have our time, we are his hands and feet. Right? So if we don't spend time with them and we don't know his voice, right. 'cause we don't, we're not practicing that discernment. Yeah. How, how do we know what we're supposed to be do, how to, how you show the love of God if you're not showing the love.
And I think we need to do, um, a podcast next on how we hear from the Holy Spirit. Yeah, I do too. And what that looks like, because I think people don't know. I agree. I didn't know. Mm-hmm. I didn't, I didn't know either. But then, and, but now I, as I look back in my life and once I've learned how to do, how to do this.
Mm-hmm. Um, and it's not hard. And most people hear from him. We feel love through others. Right. Okay. We feel love from God through the people that he sends to us. Yes. We feel love from his word. Yes. Um, I just think it's always amazing how a whole room full, a whole, like a whole church can hear a word from the pastor and we all walk away feeling felt by it.
The amount of times I was in Bible college and I was thinking, I don't know why you guys are here. This is all about me. I, I mean, God is talking to me right now. I literally said that to Chris. I'm like, I said that. I'm so sorry. This seems to be, this whole year is for me. Yeah. Scott and I would go in because God was playing whack-a-mole.
Yeah. He was. He was getting, I mean we all obviously had something in common there, but I seriously thought multiple times I'm like, ah. I don't even know why these people are here. That is funny. So everyone feels this way because I was an advisor for the college. Yeah. And the students all felt the same way.
Oh, praise God. They all feel, isn't that amazing? I love that. I do too. So the revelation is so great and big and beautiful. Yeah. And he's using it by these tools, by, by even other people's revelation. Yes. Yes. You know, reading books, getting in, getting in the word and finding out more about God's character.
Mm-hmm. You'll, you'll see how he, how much he loves you. Yes. And I think you need to read the whole book. The whole book. Yeah. Because, um, I, I think that I often, when I was younger, started in the Old Testament was scary, and I didn't really understand God's love. No. But after reading the New Testament. Okay.
When I, if you focus on the New Testament and really learn his love. Yeah. Like I get, I, I understand his character a little more. And then when we go back to the Old Testament and you can see Jesus through it, I start to see the love through it. Yeah. And I would, um, so if, if somebody's out there that hasn't read the Bible and doesn't know where to start, um, I would start in John, because John has such a great revelation of who Jesus is.
And, and I always say, Luke, really well, this is where I fell in love with Jesus. Okay, well, dental, try Luke or John. I mean, either way. Well, I, let me tell you why, and everyone says this differently. 'cause me, me and my brother even argue, he says, John Taylor, I love John. I love John. I have, I get so much out of John.
It's not even funny. How about this? If you're a man, I would start in John, if you are a woman. Well, I do take testosterone, but not because I wanna be a man. Well, she has been in testosterone for weeks, so I'm gonna say maybe that's why she's picking John. Um, but Luke really shows the heart for women, his Jesus heart for women, I think.
And that's why I think I loved it because I needed that. Hmm. Like I think it's all good. Like start it wherever you want, but I would start in the New Testament. Yeah. Start in the new I started. So then you start to hear, understand his character. And I, I think even I didn't understand the Old Testament until Bible college when we were told to pull the heart of God out of each chapter.
Out of each, each. Each book. Yeah. Each book. Yeah. And I've had to think, okay, where is God? Where is his heart? How is he loving here? And how is he being revealed? Yes. I did not have that understanding until being in Bible college. And they showed us that I. In the Old Testament, each book is a revelation of who Jesus is.
It's revealing a piece of him. Yes. That. Yes. And there's a really good book called The Scarlet Thread. Mm-hmm. Is that the miracle of the Scarlet Thread? Anyway, yes. I will put the, I will put it in the description, but it really describes woven in to the whole Bible that really helped me understand. Yeah.
Because it's a big book. I need help. I'm not a scholar, I'm not a theologian. Yeah. I am just a simple, uneducated girl. Yeah. Who loves God. Yeah. So, um, anyway, so there's, I I just say study spend time with him because he reveals himself, he reveals himself in his word, but through others. And if we just take the time to appreciate that.
And I think part of me seeing that is when. I do start my prayers every day with that thankfulness and that gratitude. 'cause it reminds me of what he has been and who he has been for me. That he has restored my family. Yeah. That he's restored us, not only to each other, but to him. Yeah. And there's so much I have to be thankful for that.
I remember who he was in it. Yeah. But if we're not doing that, I think that's also the importance of coming to his course with that thanksgiving and praise. It's not just because out of reverence, but it, it does remind us who he is. Well, when you, the more you get to know him, the more you know his voice, the more you know his character.
And so when I hear things, that's when I'm like, that doesn't sound like the Lord. Yes. That doesn't sound like him. And so I'm gonna go ahead and question that and, and I have rubbed some people the wrong way because I will question that. I will question leaders. I will question people because. Leaders are fallible.
Yes. And they do make mistakes. And people have had tendencies in the past to go down these roads and not, if you don't have checks and balances, um, you're in big trouble. You are. So, may I suggest this? If you are going to question a leader, do it with the utmost of respect. Totally. But also check yourself.
Yeah. Like don't, I, I wouldn't like in your church, I wouldn't just go off. And if you're just, if you're rubbed wrong, go research it. Go study it out. Yeah, go study it out. Yeah. And you know, ask. Ask God how you want, how he wants you to proceed in it. Mm-hmm. Um, because I do think that people are fallible, people do make mistakes.
Yeah. And people do. Correct. Yeah. Um, and we are also, that's who we are. We're supposed to hold each other accountable Yeah. To the word. Mm-hmm. And I think iron sharpening iron. Yes. You can't, you, I mean, your point will become dull. Right. If you're not sharpening, there's no perfect church. Mm-hmm. Meaning your pastor's probably gonna get something wrong at some point.
Yeah. And I feel like we got something wrong on one of these podcasts from maybe two or three podcasts go where. I don't know if it was wrong. I think it was expressed wrong. Oh, okay. You know, and um Oh, I know. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And yeah. And it's okay. We correct ourselves. Yeah. We take it out or I'll erase that part, or I'll correct it in the notes.
Yeah. Okay. Um, we get corrected a lot and I, I don't mind 'cause it gives me, I love to study. Yeah. I love to study the word. So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna study this up and make sure I'm right. Yeah. I'm gonna look this up. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I do that. All I do, I enjoy that. Yeah. It's fun. And I love that feeling when something rubs me wrong too.
'cause that's like the Holy Spirit speaking to me. That's God loving me, saying, Hey, this isn't for you. Yeah. This isn't for you. Look it up. Yeah. Research, make sure, and that's why we need to, um, give grace to people who get it wrong. Right. Because we all do. Yeah. But also Correct. And if you're at a church where that's an impossibility, because we're gonna talk about authoritarian leadership here coming up in September.
Um. If you're in a church that doesn't allow you access to a pastor who you, you cannot correct. This is a red flag. Okay? I'm not saying leave the church, but I'm saying put this in your mind like this could be a red flag because everyone needs to be held accountable like that. That's what the point of the body is for.
That's all Jesus did was teach us and correct us. That's why he's our leader. Yes. And so if we don't hold each other to a standard, if you don't have a standard, then you don't have anything. No. And that's kind of what the world's at today. It's Well, I feel, I feel, I feel instead of, well, here's the standard.
This is the standard and this is what we are to go off of. And it's okay to say to one, you don't have to get offended because you got it wrong. And you don't have to be offensive. I mean, I've seent offensive comments when somebody, when, when people have said something on podcasts that they don't like. I have watched, I, in fact, have you seen ours?
Yeah, I've read, yeah. And sometimes they're mean, and they're, I'm like, seriously, you're offended by this? So, so friends, we're Christians here, so please hear my heart. I am correctable. Please just, just be nice. Be a Christian. Yeah. If you're a Christian, Christian up also, I was telling my husband Christian up.
Yeah. But also think about that when you're posting on people's stuff. Yeah. Like who am I in this? Like if is this doctrine that we're, um, you're arguing with me about, is this about is it important? Right. Is it really, I mean, the important stuff is Jesus is king. He is our Lord. The importance is he, he died and rose to life again.
Right. Okay. These are the important things that he is the Messiah, that he is God. Yeah. Those are the important things that you do need to be saved. If you want to enter the kingdom of heaven. These are the important things. Right. These are the important things. Yeah. And, and, and choosing to bicker over. Um.
I don't mind debating. I really don't, debating is not, is different than fighting over and calling women, you know, women names getting, getting, you know, ugly because, you know, saying, oh, well women don't have a place in church, or, you know, blah, blah, blah, whatever. You can have your opinion and that's okay.
And you can even support it with scripture. Okay? But you don't have to be ugly about it. No, that's not, that's not what Jesus did. And that's not what's necessary. So, um, and we need to get into this at some point too, but I'm gonna say this just for the podcast. The name of our podcast is Red Ledger. We, the intention here was when I bought this domain, I think 19 years ago, was to share the stories of Jesus in my life.
It was to share what he's done, to make me more like him. Yeah. And how I, when I set my eyes on him, how he has transformed my life. And to share and testify the stories as we're asked to do in Revelation. Okay. So as he didn't say it, only men shared their stories about Jesus and testify. Yeah. All of us, all that's all of us were included in the testifying.
And what we're testifying on usually is our, is our fallibility. How we, how we it wrong, how we got it wrong, and how Jesus corrected us and how the word corrected us. That's our story is our stories. Yeah. You know, and we've had pastors on male pastors that have shared their story that not, aren't, not sharing their stories, but giving actual lessons.
And I, I love 'em. I think they're great. Of course. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I'm not saying I'm against that. Um, but just, just know our heart here is to bring the body together. It's not to divide. It is to lift you up. It is Okay. If we don't agree, that is not division. Okay. The strife happens when we get insulting and offended and offensive.
That's the strife. But it's okay if that we don't agree, but let's talk about it. Like, like, like we actually care about each other. Like we actually love each other. Yeah. We Is that fair? I, I think so. We have conversations at our table, the, my husband and I and her kids. Mm-hmm. And I think it's, I think it's important as a family.
And that's what we are when we, when we're in heaven together. Yes. We're a family. I may not go to your four walled church. Right. We're still the church, but we're still the church. That is the one true church. That is yeah. That is the one true church. And we are the church body. We are the church body. All of us.
Me, you, everyone. Yeah. Uh, everybody that has said Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. He rose and, and died for me, or he died and rose again for me. And, and I declare that he is my Lord and Savior. I give my life to him. Those are the people that I'm sharing eternity with. Yes. That's the church. That's the church.
In case, in case you're confused by her comment earlier on the one true church. That is the one true church. Yeah. That is the one true church. We are the body. We are the body. Yeah. And, and there's all these different religions and churches that have their, because man is always adding to it. Right. And so, um, it's okay.
Do do your thing. Um, and I will again, test everything to the word and either join that and, and participate in it, or I won't. But we're still, you know, like when I, when I had left a church, I thought, I, I, I was so sad. I was like, oh my gosh, I'm so sad these people. And then I got to thinking about it and I was like, wait a minute.
I just left the four walls. We're also going to the same place. They're still my people, still the church. And I still love them all very much. I just am not attending those four walls. It's okay. Like, and. It's no longer like in, in competition, and I don't wanna really debate those things. I mean, I will debate whatever needs to, you know, I'll debate things, but I'm not, I'm not gonna argue it.
That's the difference. Like Yeah. Argue in a way to where I demean somebody else, or, um, or I am demeaned. Right. I'm not gonna tolerate that. I, we, there's just no point. Like, that's what keeps people from God. Yeah. That's why we don't want strife, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Now, under misunderstanding, I can usually read in a question in our podcast, like, if somebody actually wants true or deeper understanding.
Yeah. And I pray about it. Yeah. And sometimes I just ignore it. Um, but people are just looking to fight. They are looking to fight. In fact, you know? Um, and I, I, I'm not gonna say that I haven't met one of those people. Like when I say this, I am saying this to my old self. Um, I think I'm, I think as of today I have victory in this area.
So wait till somebody comments on Twitter. Yeah. I'm totally joking. Yeah. But I, I do want to. Be a Christian, not only when I'm face to face with somebody, but on this keyboard too. Yeah. You know? For sure. Mm-hmm. Because I think that's important. I just, I wanna reiterate that God does love you. And while it is so easy for me to believe that for you and everyone watching, he does love you and he's chasing you down.
He is. And I know that. And I know he has relentlessly pursued me. Even when I, when I stepped aside a little bit lately, I mean, I couldn't even do the last podcast 'cause I didn't feel right. Like him and I were in this like, tight place. Yeah. And, um, so you did it. So I, I so appreciate that. And that gave me time to spend with him.
And that's okay. Totally. And that's okay. And this is my advice to you, ask, seek and knock. Mm-hmm. Ask him if you don't know, if you're not a hundred percent sure, ask. And I just know this is gonna be a really cool journey for me because he's already showing up in such a big way. But he's gonna show up for you too.
Yes. Because he just does, when we ask, he loves, when we ask for stuff like this, these are the kind of things he loves to give you, um, are the things that are the most important to him, and that is love. Mm-hmm. That is the most important part of Amen. The church, for the church body, is that we love each other.
We love one another. We love ourselves. We love him. Right? That's the commandment we have. Yeah. That that is it. And it covers it all. It covers the entire law. It's the new covenant we're living under and it covers the 10 commandments. Okay. If you, if you, if you wanna think about love, what is that? Okay. I am not gonna cheat.
I'm not gonna hurt people. I'm not gonna lie, I'm not gonna do all these things 'cause that's not love. Let him reveal to you how much he loves you, because it's really, I, I couldn't even really put it into words so far other than. These wild revelations that I can't really put into words that he's just showing me and I'm starting to believe it again.
So I want that for you. If you need help praying, let's just pray right now. Hey, father, thank you so much that you are a living God, that we can seek you, that we have the ability to ask you these questions of our heart. That if we seek you, that you do show up, that when we knock down the door, you open it for us.
Thank you, God, that this is the God you are. Thank you God for sending your son so that we could access you directly, so that we can ask you these questions. Thank you for sending your son to die for us on that cross so that we could be translated from. Darkness and light so that we can see true so that we have the Holy Spirit deposit in us, so that we can hear you and hear your voice.
Thank you, God, that when we do do speak to you, you do speak back 'cause you are a living true God. 'cause you're not a rock. 'cause you are a living God that made us in his image. Thank you God. I'm asking you that anyone who sees you in this moment, who doesn't know they're loved, that you please open their heart to who you are, that you show them, him, them, your character, that you show him and her the love that you are, and that you have this give this supernatural revelation to them and you just pour it on them.
I ask this in Jesus name. Anything, father, I just thank you. I thank you that as you show these people, as you show us all. How mighty you are and how big your heart is for each one of us that you, you have pulled us and you continue to pull us from the depths your hand is reaching out to us. We wanna hear from you, Lord.
We are your sheep. We hear your voice. We shall not listen to another thank you that you show us you are the way, you are, the truth and the light. You show us the way our relationship is solidified with you. You hold our hand. You are a lamp to our feet and a light to our path. So I thank you that each person that seeks you out, I thank you, father, that they find, they find, and the doors that need to be shut, they're shut.
No more to never be opened. A door that you shut, it is shut permanently and it does not need to be reopened, especially those that hurt us. So I thank you that you continue to tug on the hearts of the people. You tug on their hearts and they continue to walk forward. They walk and they are finding you.
You put people in their pathway that know you, that love you and speak the truth. And I thank you that that's what they retain. That's what they experience and they have a testimony themselves. They are able to testify and go, I get it, I have it. I understand. And they want more of you. More of you, Lord.
Give them more. In Jesus' name. Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. Thank you. God bless. God bless.