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Welcome to The Culture Code podcast. On this podcast, you’ll learn how to grow, shape, and sustain a high-performance culture with the CEO of LEADx, Kevin Kruse. From designing and delivering highly effective leadership development programs, to measuring and improving the employee experience, you will understand what it takes to cultivate a thriving company culture. Through interviews with Chief People Officers, deep dives into key topics, and recordings of our invite-only community sessions, we bring you cutting-edge, data-backed insights from the most desirable companies to work for in the world.
Kevin Kruse: Hello, everyone. I'm Kevin Kruse. Welcome back to The Culture Code. Our guest today is the Chief People Officer at Neo4j, Kristin Thornby. Kristin, welcome! And where are you joining from today?
Kristin Thornby: Thank you. Thanks for having me. I'm in Boston, Massachusetts, where it's 87 degrees in October.
Kruse:I got back from Boston at 1 o'clock last night. As a matter of fact, I was in the Seaport area, which I learned is like the big tech and life sciences' newest area. It was beautiful weather, lots of energy. I had a great meal. Is that the part of Boston you're in?
Thornby: No, I live closer to the Back Bay area and kind of closer to Cambridge, but I have spent quite a bit of time there, and I'm glad the weather was nice for you. In about a month, it would hurt your face to walk outside. So we get a quick ramp from 87 to 10.
Kruse: I actually already have business back in December. I plan to hurt my face in December. So let me ask. For those who might not be familiar with Neo4j, how big is your organization and in plain language, what do you do?
Thornby: Yeah, it's a great question. And I am one of those folks that when I first heard of Neo4j, I had not. I was not familiar with the company. I'm not a deeply technical person. So it's not a name I was familiar with, though now that I've been here a while, I realize how within the developer community, Neo4j is an incredibly well-known company. We even tried at one point to rename it to Neotechnology, and it just didn't work. Neo4j is who we are, and what we're sticking with. But we're a graph database analytics company. I'm not the most technical person to describe deeply what Neo4j does. But the real value is that we uncover hidden relationships within data and patterns across lots of different data points. It's been explained to me that the way our technology works is similar to how your brain processes data versus like typical databases. There's rows and rows and rows of data. It finds the value between the connections in the data itself.
Kruse: Yeah. And so how big is the company, and give us some insights. We're gonna be talking about culture, kind of a hot topic right now with, you know, work from home, fully remote, hybrid, whatever. So how big's the company? And where have you guys landed for now on that issue?
Thornby: Yeah, great question. So right now, we're just a little bit over 800 employees, very much geographically distributed. The bulk, I would say, our highest concentrations are in Malmo, Sweden, where the company was founded, which is just about a 40-minute train ride from Copenhagen. We have a pretty sizable number of folks in London where we have an office, and we also have an office in San Mateo, California, though that proves to be very transient and remote in terms of office presence. The rest of our employees are in smaller satellite offices, including Stockholm, Munich, Singapore, and we're opening one in Sydney. But the bulk of the folks are in, as I said, Malmo, London, and the San Mateo area. We obviously went fully remote, as everybody did. But Neo4j, prior to Covid, was already, I would say, don't quote me, but round numbers 50% remote before Covid. So I felt like we were set up really well to operate in that way. I joined during the pandemic, which was really tricky as a people leader, where you want to be around people. In my last company, I shared a desk with our CEO, so having a CEO in Sweden while I was sitting in Boston felt bizarre at first. But Covid made it possible, and coming back from it, we really have remained the way we were before. People in the London and Malmo areas still use the office quite heavily, but the rest of the company is relatively remote. We never did go to a mandatory back-in-office X amount of days a week. We sort of left it to the teams and the individuals to determine how often they would come back in. So we're still pretty remote. I love when I have an opportunity to get together with employees, wherever it may be, because I sit in my office here by myself, and I just want to be around people. So it's always fun for me to get to see folks.
Kruse: How would you describe your company culture in just a few words?
Thornby: Yeah, I would say we have a really unique culture. I feel like that's something that every single person you've talked to would say. But, you know, you sort of hit on it. The company was founded in Sweden, so our roots are very much like a Scandinavian, Swedish-type culture. But then we migrated to the US, and the Bay Area became our headquarters. So we have this kind of unique blend of a Silicon Valley/Swedish company. It's interesting because we have a very fast-paced culture, and a group of people who are, I think, one of the things that sets us apart is being unified and aligned around what we're trying to build. In everyday interactions, people are just jumping out of the woodwork to help each other across lanes, functions, and to get what we're trying to do done. I'm always amazed, even with my own stuff and people initiatives, at the people raising hands and volunteering. So it's unique in that it's a blend of an intense Silicon Valley mindset of growth, along with sweet Swedish roots that are family-oriented. We have a balance here that I've never seen at any company I've worked at. Before tech, I was in advertising, which is similar in pace, and the balance we have here is fantastic. There's a lot of emphasis placed on people's lives outside of work. So while we're all running around and connected, there's a lot of respect for people's time zones. No one's booking meetings at crazy hours without checking in. But besides that, Neo4j is incredibly transparent. Our CEO is super people-focused. One of his biggest goals is for this to be the best job for people working here. So when you retire, someday you'll think back and say, the best job I ever had was at Neo4j. I'm in an amazing position as the people leader, having a CEO that will move mountains to create an amazing employee experience. So I have a lot of runway to do great work with my team and make this a fun place to work.
Kruse: Kristin, your description of the culture and this blend of fast-paced Silicon Valley, you know, mixed with the Swedish family-oriented aspect made me think of the competing values framework for culture. It's like culture can be plotted on whether you're internally focused or externally focused, and whether you let people take a lot of risks or you have a lot of controls. It's fashionable these days to say, "Stop saying we're a family, we're a team," you know, you can't fire your kids, but you can fire your family. But it's not an either-or situation. Most companies are in some ways like a family, or a lot like a family, or a little. And there are some elements that are a lot like a team or a little. You've described that it's not only one thing, you know, and it's okay to say that it is possible to have a fast startup culture while also caring about people, that family aspect. It's rare, but it's possible.
Thornby: It is. And it's something I had never seen before. You know, I was used to a very different type of dynamic, which was really more like, "Go, go, go, go, go," and if you take a day off, you're lucky. But here, there's room for that and I just, I think, you know, just to touch on one of the things you said. We, I think, people here get a tremendous amount of leeway with taking risks and trying new things. And I think with our technology growing as fast as it is. And now with entering into this whole era with artificial intelligence. We're smack in the middle of all of that, and that, I mean, in addition to what we were already doing. We now have even more opportunity. To build, you know, what we were originally doing, I guess now, and even different and bigger ways. That's much, that's tied in much more closely with GenAI and large language models, and all of that. So we're really encouraging our employees to like lead with that, take the risk. If you have to step away from something you're working on the roadmap to go focus on something that we think is super connected to this GenAI space. Like, let's do it. Let's try it. So there's a lot. It's really fun in that way. And I think it's true for most of our teams, Caroline. Or other files. Sorry you can stop this and start it while you're editing right? Your marketing communication support. Caroline. If you talk to other folks within the company, I think that's true. Not only within our engineering team or our product team. I think you see that across all functions I know that's true within my own team, like, if somebody's coming to the table with an idea that's completely off our what we create for our people's roadmap for the year. And we think it's something that's gonna create a better offering for our people or an ability to do something more exciting than what we were doing before we jumped in. So there's a lot of just energy and excitement at the company, and I think that's pretty palpable. And I don't. I mean, I, it's something you're gonna expect me to say. But I think if you spoke to most folks around the company in different departments. You'd hear that as well.
Kruse: What are some of the ways you foster or sustain this culture? Any unique rituals or traditions related to your culture?
Thornby: Yeah, that's a great question, and it's something we're constantly thinking about, especially as we grow rapidly. We're trying to preserve what makes Neo4j special while recognizing the need for some changes due to our growth. It all starts with our CEO, who is incredibly people-oriented. We've had a people-centric culture since day one, even when we were just a small team of three. People genuinely enjoy working here, and our attrition rate is impressively low. During the COVID era, despite the predictions of a "great resignation," our employees have stayed because they appreciate the unique culture we're building. We offer a fun and transparent work environment, where everyone has a voice. Plus, we're working on cutting-edge technology, like our collaboration with NASA to put humans on Mars faster using Neo4j. These exciting projects make Neo4j an enticing place to work.
Kruse: I love it. I always say, all else being equal, people would rather work for a purpose than a paycheck. The pay's gotta be fair. The pays gotta be competitive. But then you jump out of bed when you're helping humans, you know? In space, you know.
Thornby: Trying to find cures for cancer. I mean, there's really, I think there are so many user stories that are incredible. And I will say, and probably former colleagues of mine will hate me for saying this. But a lot of my career was spent in advertising, and we were not making the world a better place, one at a time, probably the opposite. So I wasn't programmed to look for a company that was mission-based or doing work that was making the world a better place. So I sort of stumbled into it here and realized it after I joined, and the more I would sit in on meetings with Email or just really any folks within the company and hear these customer stories, and the way they're using the product, I'm just kind of blown away by that. And I'm finding it with recruiting. That's more valuable sometimes than, you know, even the compensation. We're doing such cool work, and that's very appealing.
Kruse: Want to ask you about what you're doing for frontline manager training leadership development. 70% of engagement is correlated to the manager, and front-line managers touch more employees than any other leadership group. What are some of the ways you develop your front-line managers?
Thornby: You are not wrong, my! Always at that cheesy line, like people, leave managers, not companies, and I say that all the time and anytime I can. You're at EO. 4 J. But you nail that one, and you're right. It's not. you know. We don't have a big, robust L&D department at our size. You know, we don't have someone on my team. That's a career, you know, leadership development coach. So you have to kind of make do. And that is really, you know. we'll probably get to this. But when we talk about, where am I most focused right now? And what's the most important kind of thing right now? And looking into next year, it's leadership excellence for us. And it's above all else. That's what I'm really focused on. And what our leadership team is focusing on is, how do we enable these managers to make sure that they're developing their teams' careers in the best way. We have, you know, a lot of early career people here that are very, very curious about what their career path here would look like. So we spent a lot of time over the last year or so diving into the core. Competency models, the functional competencies to really show these career paths. But then it's like, okay, so we build it. But now, what do we do with it? And we have to make sure we're enabling our managers and our people leaders to understand how to talk about career development, and how to provide the opportunity, not only for their folks that need development, but the high performers, too. They often get overlooked. You sort of take for granted these superstars, but we want to continue to provide for them as well to keep them engaged and growing. So we spent a lot of time this past year on leadership excellence. I did find an external partner to help with this, and it's something that I've been looking for, and I'm sure any colleagues of mine that might listen to this or read it at some point would agree. It's a really tough one because it's so hard to find. People walk away in one ear out the other but we engage with it. So for probably 8 years, I've been really looking for how to do this and how to find the right partner, and I don't think you get a lot of opportunities to get it right? When you start bringing in outside consultants. So we found a consultant that we've been working with who's terrific. And we've started this past year at our VP level with a pretty intense leadership development training program there. And the reason we started with the VPs is obvious. Then they could start putting some of these things into practice with the leaders beneath them as well. And then, now we're gonna keep going kind of to the next-level people, leaders beneath that group. But what we did I think that was what made it work was, we spent a lot of time having these folks inside the company. So talking to current managers, talking to individual contributors, focus groups and really finding out what we need at Neoli, and where our managers most need help. And so that's where we focus and curate that curriculum around. It's making it, you know, it's slow and steady. But to me, if we don't have great people leaders here that can develop careers in a way that's going to align with what our employees need. They're not. Gonna they're not gonna stay, no matter how cool the work is eventually be. You know, someone's going to leave. If their manager is not.
Kruse: Well, I like that. You're being thoughtful about it and taking your time. How do you solicit feedback from employees about the culture and their engagement (e.g., engagement or other surveys, town halls, ?)
Thornby: It's a mix. I have always been a little bit allergic to engagement surveys for one reason, which is that it often gives employees the sense that whatever they put in the survey, they're gonna, you know, that changes what they're going to see. And it often can give people. This is my experience. It can often give people a sense of sort of higher expectations or the sense that we're going to overpromise and under deliver. It's just that I don't love them. But actually, we did. We did go ahead and started to post-Covid. We're doing it twice a year. Employee engagement surveys once are like the big kind of more robust survey, and that's kind of a pulse check midyear. So we're doing that. And we do town halls every month where we have. We use a technology called Slido, which you may be familiar with, but it's unmoderated. opportunity for people to ask questions. So initially, I think we started before I joined. People had the option to ask anonymous questions, and we took that away. So we really push transparency at Neo. So now our town hall questions are not anonymous, and we don't moderate them at all, so anything goes. We always kick them off by saying, "whatever you ask us, anything, and if we can answer you, we will. There's often, once in a while, there's like, you know, an HR. Related question that we can't answer. But if we can talk about it, and if we can answer it, we absolutely will." So I think that's a good one. And then my team, too, spends a lot of time. And it's part of our process doing a lot of smaller group one on one and then smaller group feedback sessions. We're also doing a lot of moderating. Ask their teams to come together, have a live feedback session. My team, someone from my team will typically be there to moderate, and then the leader leaves, and then we continue the conversation. So there's a lot of those kinds of things happening. There's the surveys, there's the town halls, but we generally just have this very open culture. Again, it may be the Swedish thing, but, like Emil, I was meeting every finalist for every position we hired up until about a year ago. We finally had to, like, credit. But you know, so he wants to make a relationship and get to know every employee. So I think because of that, people feel comfortable, Rip, and sometimes it's not the most fun, like they feel a little too comfortable sometimes, just like letting the feedback rip. But it's helpful. It's a gift to us. We want to know what people are thinking, and it's hard when we don't know, you know, we're I should note we're going through culturally, a bit of a transformation right now as we go, as every company does, as you go from a bit of a smaller company to a fast-growing company that's getting bigger and bigger. I referenced it earlier, but one of the challenges with. That is that some of the folks that have been here from the beginning, and some folks that were amazing from, you know, an early point of the company to a certain stage. They're not the people that are necessarily gonna get you to the next, to the you know where our end game or there's no end game, I guess, but to, you know, kind of the next level. And so it's really hard. When we have to have those conversations with incredibly talented, brilliant people who have been super loyal and been at the company a long time. So we're bringing in some new leaders and some folks that have been here a long time. Change is happening. And I think that can get uncomfortable for people. So right now we're really trying to lean in on like open dialogue. People like really understanding how they're performing. I'm trying to push them, you know. Radical candor is one of my favorite sort of methodologies of how to think about it. And I think with some of our employees even especially outside the Us. I think the the ruinous empathy component of radical candor can come into play where you're just feel so bad giving feedback that you hold it back, and we're trying to flip the script on that, and really underscore that feedback, you know, the kind of thing you can do is to let someone know how they're performing versus leaving them, you know, not knowing. So we have a lot we talk a lot about, you know, performance. And we get feedback kind of both ways from people. So back to my team and our group meetings that we're having with people and one on one of employees, we get tons of data.
Kruse: Kristin, you just described me, like my worst leadership traits, especially when I was in my thirties. I've overcome it as an old guy now, but I was so agreeable, personality-wise. Yeah, that I would just withhold feedback like crazy. And back when I was young and dumb, it was always like, "Oh, I don't want to hurt their feelings, or they're on a deadline. I don't want to distract them, or they're my most valuable employee. You don't want to disengage them by giving them this feedback." Meanwhile, they're all wondering like, "Does Kruze even care about me? He's not giving any feedback. I'm not advancing in my career. How am I supposed to get better?" And you know, as you said, it's corny. But feedback is a gift. It's a gift for their career. It shows that you care. It's giving them attention. Yeah, the silence is the problem.
Thornby: It's hard, it's hard. And we have, you know, one of the things I love about our company is, it's really rooted in kindness. Like we have an incredibly kind employee base, an incredibly kind CEO. And it's hard to get people, you know, comfortable with potentially hurting someone's feelings or bumming them out. I don't love it, you know. Not fun. I feel bad. But then, yeah, I think there's just ways. And my team and I try to be really helpful coaching people in those conversations. There's ways to give feedback that doesn't come off as harsh and negative. I think some people are so uncomfortable they just blurt it out, and then it feels harsh. But if you can think about it in a way that's, you know, constructive and productive, it can be very much appreciated when you kind of do it the right way. So we do spend a lot of time coaching managers on how to do it. But mostly it's like we have to do it. Just get it out somehow, and we'll clean it up after the fact. But like people really do need to know where they stand, and it's hard. It's hard for everybody.
Kruse: But you triggered another idea, which is, I think, I mean, because I think this could be helpful for a lot of people. I think it's a common problem, so helpful for a lot of managers. The thing I try to remember and tell others is constructive feedback is uncomfortable when it doesn't happen that often. So it's like, I don't say much to you. And then all of a sudden, 6 months go by, and then I'm zinging you with something. Okay, we're both a little uncomfortable about it. If every single week in one-on-one we're talking about, hey, red light green light. What went great in the last week, you know. Here's something I noticed you did which is really awesome, like positive feedback, you know. Like, let's let that flow as well. And hey, by the way, I noticed you did this one thing. I think you could have done it better in this way, if all of a sudden it's a mutual conversation about, hey, lean into this because it's really good, hey, I think you could have done this better, or here's something you might want to think about. It's not that big of a deal. It's not that hard of a conversation, not that hard when it's routine when it just happens all the time.
Thornby: Yeah. But if you're not doing it regularly, right, and I don't know if you, I mean, totally. I don't know if this happened to you, but I have memories set like PTSD when I think about it from performance reviews where I walk into it. I have no idea what my manager was like. We haven't talked about my performance in a year, like I think I did pretty well, but you never know what you're gonna get hit with. And to me, that's like the worst. And I talk about that a lot at NEO4J, with managers and with individual contributors. Like, you never wanna surprise, you always wanna know. And I, yeah, in my perfect world, no, we would never be surprised if someone's gonna resign, no employee would be surprised if it's not working out. That's right. Get fired out of the blue, and I think, so the more we can have these conversations, you're, you nailed it. And our performance management process is really centered around the conversation. It's not about writing these big, long reviews. It's not. It's just, let's talk and try. And, you know, the one-on-ones and all that. But you're so right. I mean, it's just. It's the worst when you walk into those, like, have no idea.
Kruse: Kristin, you've covered a lot already from the focus on the conversations. Related to culture, are there any special initiatives or results you’re most proud of?
Thornby: Yeah, I mean, I think the biggest one right now that I'm focused on is around this like leadership. Excellence, we're calling it. And I was really glad that we were able to get that off the ground. This past year. And now, as I said, we're gonna be building on it for next year as well. But I'm also one of the things I'm really, really proud of and excited about for us, are we? Before I joined, our people function was split Geo. Geographically, and over the last year or so we've come together as a global team. So our recruiting function, for example, set up globally supporting functions. And with that, we've done a ton of interview training and a ton of work around. Just, I guess, interviewing skills and skill training. So I feel like what our candidates are experiencing now is night and day from where we were. Because of that, we have an amazing global leader of talent acquisition. Who's done a tremendous job. And then on that, I prefer to call HR people strategy. And for me. What we do is so important to the business itself. It's not some kind of old-school personnel department type of thing like, we're really deeply embedded with our business partners or business leaders rather. And they rely on our team in a big way. So we also have just now realigned that team to be set up by function as well. So we have. We're super lucky to have a VP. On my team who's been at Ne. I think she was employee 10. She's based in Sweden, so she knows this place inside and out, and she's leading people strategy for our R&D function. And then we have a phenomenal person who's based in the US. Doing the same for go-to-market. So I feel really, it's a weird thing to say. But I feel really proud of the sort of the way we've set up our team and the value that I see that we're providing to our business leaders. So more than any company I've ever seen. Our team has a voice at the table. Kind of a corny thing to say, but truly like it's always a quick text. Can I get some advice and not just me to my team. They really value the advice before they make any big decisions within their department. Organizationally, structurally, whatever it may be off-site planning. They rely so heavily on our team, on my team. For all of that, and that makes me feel really proud, because that's not always what I've seen through traditional HR team's partnering with the business. So that partnership is something that's hard to explain. But if you see it in action. it's something I'm super proud of, and then the way we set up the team to align with the business, I think is something that's been working really well.
Kruse: What book would you recommend that your colleagues read? (or podcast, video, etc.)
Thornby: "The Culture Map." Yeah, I don't work for the company, but I happen to have the book right here. It's an amazing book. If it's a company, for us, this would be the one because we're so geographically dispersed. And I think the thing about this book that's tremendously helpful is it really shines a light on the fact that, you know, we all join a company and just sort of assume that people from all over the world are gonna work harmoniously together, and everything's gonna work out just fine. That is so not true. And this book does an incredible job of just kind of going across the globe and talking really about specific ways that different cultures and different people show up at work and how to understand what different ways of communication mean and how best to, you know, what door to go through when you need to get a specific message across to someone in Japan versus Sweden versus the US. And it's amazing. I keep it here because I'm always referencing it and looking back to it. But if everyone in my company would read that, I would be thrilled.
Kruse: Yeah, I think again for the listeners, even if your company isn't global itself. I mean, if you have customers from around the world and who doesn't these days? Right? So it's so. So you know, everybody, every company's a global company. This is probably the single most important book that you could read, Aaron Meyer, the culture. So you've been a chief people officer for a little while. Now, what's something that maybe you wish you knew on day one that you didn't, you know? Like, if you could write a letter to the younger version of results. Yeah, and say, Hey, look out for this, or keep this in mind. What would you do? What would you say?
Thornby: Yeah. Well, your last question was a great segue to this one because it's related. So for me, I came into it very naively. Very naive to how deeply different cultures can be. My last company prior to this was headquartered and founded in Tel Aviv. And I spent a ton of time in Israel, so I know. But like falling in love with that country's culture, the people are just amazing. But it's interesting. And this is gonna sound like this kind of an ignorant American thing to say, but like they seemed really American when I met them like they all speak English. They get all the jokes, or they know our government, our pop culture, our likes. So I rolled in there, you know, thinking. this is great, I know how to do this, and it didn't take too long before I realized like, Whoa, it's actually like, that's such an ignorant perspective. And I wish I had known like I wish I had read that book from day one. I wish someone would have handed it to me, but I think it was just. I wish I knew more about communication styles and what. When people say something, it can mean something a bit different. It's not the same as the way we talk about things, and they don't mean the same things the way we say them. So I think for me it was that it was really I wish, or I just I guess I wish I would have known or had more understanding, for how deeply different cultures can impact the way people show up at work, and the way you need to communicate with them so, and I think the dovetail quickly off. That is just the importance. I wish they had known earlier on the importance of really spending the time to understand communication styles and personality types, and how the communication styles really need to be kind of tailored to those.
Kruse: When you talk about personality styles. Are you using that term loosely? Or do you have a favorite? You know, a personality assessment tool that you like to use: MBTI or a Hogan, or a DiSC or anything.
Thornby: It's a great question. I love them but I also actually love them. I'm gonna do a big plug here for a company, called the Predictive Index. Which is. I don't. I mean, I don't understand how this works, but it's 2 questions, and we used it at my last company for every hire we made, and it was never wrong. It was never wrong. And you were, you were kind of categorized by letters, so you'd be like an Abcd. And with sales rep sales. We wanted people to be what we call a high A, which is like these, go-getter, salespeople, and au every so often we'd see someone who was a low A, and but they seemed like a high A, so let's hire them. I think the test is wrong, or the assessments are wrong. They didn't last more than 6 months. It was. It's amazing. So I'm not here to make plugs for Aaron Meyer in the Culture Map Index. But I find any of them fascinating, and II think the predictive index is just really an amazing amazing tool. So I love that one as well.
Kruse: So I want to again for the listeners. I'm a fan of Predictive Index and know those folks. There are so many assessment tools out there. What I encourage people to realize is there are two groups. There are those that are actually, it's like, it's illegal to use them for selection and promotion, right? And so, yeah, DISC, MBTI, Enneagram, etc., you cannot. In fact, you know, we're a partner with most of those, and they make you say you're not supposed to call it a personality assessment. It's a behavioral style, and you cannot. You sign a paper, you will not use it for hiring selection. Then there are assessments that have been validated for selection, and it's because they're based on the classic five-factor model of personality. Predictive Index is one, and so Predictive Index, Hogan, LEADx, Big Five, the five-factor model, etc., they're harder to interpret. They're longer to take. But if you really want that snapshot of personality, you use one of these validated ones. The other ones are nice to have a conversation about, but the other ones are really pure.
Thornby: And we tried not to use the PI as a real screening tool. It was just something we'd ask people to do, try to better understand who they were. We went pretty deep with it because it has all these functions. Then, as your manager, here's how to best manage Kristin based on her, you know, and how you can meet her needs at work. When Kristin's in distress, here's the best way to talk with her. We found it super useful. But I agree with you. So, it's helpful. It is helpful.
Kruse: That's great. Last question. What excites you the most about your company right now?
Thornby: That is such a good question. I'm excited just to see where we go with this. It's funny, as we're talking, I just saw a Slack message pop up from our executive team where there's some big event going on right now, I think with Google. And we talk a lot about how this big partnership we have now with Google. It's that stuff. It's like these bigger companies that are really deep in all the stuff are seeing Neo4j as a super valuable partner. And they're coming at us and wanting to work with us. That's really exciting to me. And I think just at this pace that we're growing, the market opportunity. I guess that would be the headline for all of it. It's ours to go get. And I love the challenge. I'm a builder, and it gives me so much energy. So, it's a challenge. It's all out there for us to go grab, and it's just a matter of now executing and doing it. And that's super exciting for me.
Kruse: That's brilliant. I'm excited just from your enthusiasm. Talking about Kristin Thornby, Chief People Officer at Neo4j. Thank you so much for sharing your time and wisdom with all of us today.
Thornby: This was so fun, Kevin. Thanks so much for having me. Take care.