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Small group leaders, pastors, and more discussing strategies for growth and community in church groups. The Small Group Network is an international ministry that equips churches to engage in deeper discipleship and community.
Louisa: Hello!
And welcome to S G Squared.
Pastor Steve Gladen pulls from over 25
years of small group ministry experience
to encourage and equip listeners like
you to lead small group ministry.
So let's listen, and learn, together.
Welcome to SG Squared, Steve
Gladden on small groups.
Derek here as always with
the man, Steve Gladden.
Steve, how are you doing on
this bright and shiny day?
Tell you, everything's new, everything's
different, everything is, you know,
what it should be, I, I guess.
And so we'll, we'll share the context
of that whole statement when we
get to the, to the breaking news.
Hey, this is...
You, you're, you're driving the show.
What do you wanna do first?
Yeah, like Steve just referenced,
we have some big breaking news that
we're gonna share at the end of this
episode, so make sure to stick to
the very end to hear about Steve's
big news, and this is huge news.
Um, and but to set this up, first,
we wanna share with you four types
of groups that every church needs.
So Steve, uh, tell us about
these four types of groups.
Yeah, let me, uh...
This is gonna be quite the different
show because we have such polarity
in what's happening, but in some
ways it's, it's somewhat similar.
And I know some of you are, like,
going, "I'll just fast-forward and
get the breaking news, and then if
I wanna listen to the show, I will."
But I, I would encourage you, part of
this was-- part of this show was birthed
out of, you know, my breaking news and
the, you know, re-looking at what are the
types of groups that a church has to have.
And I'll preface this in one way The
overarching theme of every person on
staff should be understanding that most
people, not all, most people that are
visiting your church come to your website
and then come to your physical location.
Our job on staff behind the lead pastor
is to make sure that the second step out
of the weekend is one that fits where they
are at developmentally, so that they can
stick and we can meet them where they're
at and take them to where they need to go.
Now, with that as a little bit
of a backdrop, some of you may
be groups pastors that are only
focusing on the spiritual formation
aspect of your, of your church.
Others of you may be in different aspects
of what we're gonna talk about, the
different types of groups, and then some
of you are overseeing the whole thing.
To give you context behind this,
when I was at Saddleback and in,
uh, you know, on staff at Saddleback
with Rick, and then, you know, when
Rick transitioned with Andy, uh, I
was predominantly just overseeing
the discipleship-based small groups.
Now, there are other types of
groupings of people, but I would
only oversee one aspect of it.
Some of you that are at a different
church, you may be in a free market church
or, uh, a different type of language,
you, you're gonna be overseeing a, a
specific or really all of the groups.
So let's just get into it.
It'll, it'll make more sense as,
as we roll through, but let's,
uh, jump right in, and let me just
go to the first type of group.
And how I'm gonna set this up is
share with you what the primary
engagement is in the, in each type of
group, what their felt need is, and
the team that is generally gonna be
responsible for that typing of group.
So Derek, why don't I just jump in, and
I'll go into the first one, which is the
one that we most know about, and that,
that is, uh, groups that primarily focus
on discipleship or spiritual formation.
These are what a lot of us say would
be typical small groups where the, the
Bible is looked at and prayer is offered,
and we're, and we're just, you know,
building community and helping people out.
The people that are in this type of
group, their primary engagement or
what they, they are looking for, or our
primary engagement is spiritual growth.
We wanna see them become
better followers of Jesus.
Now, what their primary, primary felt
need, the felt need that they come
with, is that they're looking for to
fill a spiritual void that they have.
They understand that
they are a broken being.
They are looking for a
spiritual aspect of life.
They, they understand it.
Some people turn to cults for this.
Some people turn to sports for this.
Some people turn to alcohol for this.
Uh, there's many things that people try
to either numb or search out, but these
are people, there's a spiritual void.
And as you know that when the fall of
mankind happened in Genesis with Adam
and Eve, there was a breaking of the
relationship between God and man, and
this is what caused a spiritual void.
Now, generally, the team that is
responsible for this is what we
would call the small groups team
or the life group team or the name
that your church uses with it.
And inside this team, you
generally have six types of groups.
You have men's, women's, couples,
singles, uh, online, workplace.
But the, all of them, no matter
what the affinity is, they're all
trying to raise the spiritual depth
of the church, getting people that
are better followers of Christ.
So that is the first type of group that
you're most familiar with on this channel.
But what I wanna do is help break
down to make sense of the other three.
Derek A- uh, co- color commentary
to that or, or rebuking?
No, it's, uh, I think back to some of
the small groups I've been a part of,
and of course fellowship, I'm sure
we're gonna talk about that, is key.
But yeah, coming away from a small
group where you are growing spiritually
and meeting those felt needs is
critical and really life-changing.
So it's a, a type of
group every church needs.
Yeah, I mean, you bring, you bring up
a good point because all four of these
types of groups we're gonna be talking
about, there is, there is a component
of where fellowship is happening.
And, uh, a- and it can go to
different levels depending on, you
know, you know, where the leader
is at and what they're doing.
But predominantly in the, these
discipleship groups we were just
talking about is where you're gonna
find the authentic community, where
it's more than just a, "Hey, we're
just gonna do something together
and then be gone from each other."
But there's a place where you can,
uh, take life a lot deeper 'cause
you're t- much more concentrated.
But not, not disclosing that no
fellowship does happen on the other
ones we're gonna be talking about.
So that was the group type number one.
Let's jump to number two.
What do we got?
Yeah.
Another type of group that, that is
out there, and their pri- your primary
engagement with these people is serving.
Uh, these are people that are exercising
their spiritual giftedness, and they
are wanting to make the weekend happen.
They'll be volunteering all over your
church, in children's, in students'.
Uh, these are adults I'm speaking of.
And, uh, they will be, uh, volunteering
in your parking ministry, or ushers,
or counting money, or landscape
ministry, or different things that are
happening all throughout your church.
These people are in groupings of people
that will make the weekend happen.
Their, uh, primary engagement is
serving, uh, 'cause they're working
through their spiritual gift.
The felt need that is getting
met is they're feeling value.
They're feeling the ability to, uh,
you know, to understand that, uh, "I
am bringing something to this kingdom
effort that brings me fulfillment
because I'm working in my spiritual
giftedness, and it helps the kingdom out."
And this, these teams can be
called many different things.
They can be, uh, called your, you
know, um, your Your church's, um,
oh gosh, what's the engagement one
that I'm- Serve teams, um- Yeah.
Serve teams, uh, they could be,
you know, be called serve teams.
I'm thinking of the, uh, one
where they're, um, uh, first
impressions is what I- There you go
what I was looking for,
the term right there.
But they could be first impressions, they
could be your serve teams, uh, they may
just be called, uh, they may not even be
housed on something, but there, there is
a person that understands how to get these
people mobilized into serving your church.
Uh, you know, at, at Saddleback,
this was called our 301 team
or our, our, our serving team.
They would help mobilize people all
throughout our church to do that.
So these, this is a grouping of people
that is very critical because there are
people that wanna serve before they grow
in the church, and so it's important.
This is a great second
step out of your church.
But what I would say is that the three
groupings that we're talking about
right now, serving and the two following
here, what they are trying to do is
tr- trying to meet people where they're
at and get them to a s- discipleship
group where they can, uh, be able to
grow more like Christ and find, uh...
They may not understand they have a
spiritual void, but whether they know
it or not, they do have one that only
that discipleship group can fulfill.
It's so funny how God wires
everybody differently.
Like, you got some people and families
that are looking to join a group,
even if it's a group of strangers.
Yeah.
Then you've got people who that idea
might scare them, but man, they just
wanna jump in and serve, and they're
kind of unofficially in a small
group and they don't even realize it.
So, um- Yeah.
And you wanna meet...
Like I said, this, that's a classic
line, we wanna meet them where they're
at, but we know that for them to last
the long haul, they've gotta become
more a follower of who Jesus is.
And it's a great place
for non-believers to jump.
I mean, a lot of times churches through
people who don't even know Jesus, you
know, in the front lines of being, you
know, a, a, a greeter or in the parking
lot or something like that, that are,
are just, you know, if you can smile,
you can make something work Well said.
Well said.
That was number two, and now
let's jump to number three.
Yeah.
N- these groups, uh, understand that their
pr- your primary engagement is causation.
And, uh, what their felt need is, is they,
they're wanting to make a difference.
Uh, a lot of times this is
in, um, millennials or Gen Z.
Uh, there's a great opportunity for them.
They, they feel a need to help the planet,
help the surroundings of their community.
They wanna do something.
Um, this, this might be your
missions team or your local outreach
team, uh, that is doing this.
They're getting groupings of people that
are serving locally or serving globally,
and they're, they're, they-- What they
are looking to do is have causation met.
What you're helping them to do is meet
them where their felt need is, and
that is they wanna make a difference.
And so, uh, you know, again, I
correlate back to Saddleback.
This was our missions team, which
handled all of our local and global
opportunities to, uh, serve, uh, the
communities that every one of our
campuses were at, and also be able
to serve the planet and reach out.
And so there are people out there that
have causation in mind, but they may
not be looking for spiritual growth.
But what you're trying to do is say, "I
wanna help your spiritual formation out.
So what I wanna do is, again, I wanna meet
you where you are, and I wanna help you
get that second step out of the weekend."
If you come to the weekend service
and you go, "Man, I have a, I have a
bone in me that wants to do causation
stuff," then I wanna help meet you
where that's at and send you out
So we are talking about the four types
of groups that every church needs.
We've hit you with number one, number
two, number three, and are we saving
the best for last here, Steven?
Number four?
Well, I don't know if it's the best
for last, but it, it's a reality part
of our, our communities that I hope
all our churches are engaging in.
And these are people that their primary
engagement, what they need is support.
And their felt need is,
is they need vitalization.
They have experienced trauma
in some way, and they are the
hurting that come to your church.
Um, you know, at Saddleback, we had a
team that was, uh, working on pastoral
care and recovery, and these people
are looking for a group that is so
necessary because they are broken.
They either need a support group or
they need a recovery group that will
help them knit their lives back together
and put them, put them on the, put
them back in the game so that they can
make a difference for who Christ is.
And why this grouping of people is so
important, uh, for you to understand is
that many times i- in the group world
or in church systems, you're going,
"I want you to come to the weekend.
I want you to get in a group
where you are growing spiritually
in your spiritual formation.
Then I want you to serve God
with where you're gifted."
And many times the causation people and
the serving people fit that, that bucket.
But if you're going through trauma,
and this is very important for you
to understand as a groups pastor,
if you're going-- If you meet a
person who's going through trauma,
the last place you wanna do is put
them in any one of the three types
of groups that is being talked about.
They need to be in a
place where they can heal.
So we'd want these people to be in a
care recovery group, and we'd want them
to be able to get the healing that they
need but still engage with the weekend.
So when you're looking at these four
typings of groups, you'll predominantly
have groups that are working on spiritual
formation, groups that are serving,
groups that are causation in their,
in their being of local or in global
missions, and people that need care and
recovery Each one of these groupings of
people are excellent at helping people
take a second step out of the weekend.
But if the serving groups and the
causation groups and the care and
recovery groups don't understand how
they fit in in making disciples happen,
what can happen is, is that you get a
very disjointed strategy in your church.
And, and I lay this out to you that
some of you may be responsible for
all four types of those groups,
and you'll need to know how they
fit in and what you're gonna do.
Or you may be only
running a singular lane.
You may go, "I just-- I'm overseeing
care and recovery, pastoral care
and, and recovery for people,
finding support groups in recovery."
If you're running in a single lane of
any one of these groups or if you're
overseeing all of them or one of them,
like I said before at the top of the
show, is that I predominantly oversaw
all the groups where it was pres-
predominantly working with discipleship.
And so, uh, there's nothing wrong or right
about that, but it was important for me
leading the charge to work with our care
and recovery, with our missions team,
and our serving team to understand how
they fit in our church overall system.
And so that's why I wanted to present
this to you because, um, we will throw
in the show notes the four types of
groups that we're talking about, and
just want you to be able to look at
that and be able to say, "Okay, how--
where do I fit, and is my church all
in alignment for where we wanna go?"
So there you have it, everybody, the four
types of groups that every church needs.
We hope that that, uh, little equipping
really helped you and, uh, helps to
build your groups in some new way.
And now on to the big news, the breaking
news that Steve is about to share.
Steve, hit us.
Well, if you haven't been, uh, on
social media, if you haven't looked
over the last number of weeks, uh,
Lisa and I have taken a new role.
And, um, part of, uh, when we left
Saddleback Church, it was to, uh, to
bolster up the small group network.
And part of it is, is that we've
been able to build that up where we
have a couple people that we were
able to bring on, but it just wasn't
the right timing where we at, w- at,
where we, where we were at financially
for an organization to bring me on.
So unfortunately, I'm not independently
wealthy, so I needed a day job.
And so what I started doing was
doing consulting and coaching.
And as I was doing that, uh, one of the
things I learned about myself was, is I
can do consulting, I can do coaching, but
what I really am wired to do, and this
was so important for me for, to figure
out, is I'm wired for the local church.
I love the local church.
I love doing it.
And so what my prayer was is, "Lord,
where's the right local church that,
the door that you're opening up and one
that is very pro the small group network
and wants to embody both those things?"
And so, uh, part of where God opened
a door, and this is so bizarre because
this was not on our bingo card, but,
uh, as I was starting to consider
doing some coaching for a church in,
uh, outside of Jackson, Mississippi,
church called Pine Lake Church,
amazing church, runs about 22,000.
It has, uh, five campuses.
Just doing an incredible work.
But what they wanted to do was
shore up their discipleship arm
in, through their small groups.
They had read my books and we, we, as
I was there a number of times, it, it
just became clear that, uh, these are
people I would love to do life with.
There's a lot of connotations
with the state of Mississippi.
I'm not saying that they're all not
well justified or needed, but, uh, part
of what I was excited about with this
church is, is that they wanna make a
difference through the whole state.
And that, as you know, is many, many
different facets to it, uh, from,
you know, the people that God has put
throughout that state and ministering
to that and just helping it, uh, grow
and become better followers of Christ.
So Through a lot of prayer.
And I, and I tell you, when
Lisa and I, Lisa was born and
raised in Burbank, California.
I've been in California since
I was 21, uh, which was what?
10 years ago, you think, Derek?
Oh, just 20 years ago.
That even sounds great.
But, uh, but what God did
was He was opening a door.
And what's interesting is, is, uh,
we just not too long ago, uh, passed
Ascension Day and, uh, Pentecost
Sunday, and, or, or Pentecost.
And, uh, what we learn is that we are
fresh off a few thousand years ago
when Jesus was talking to a handful
of disciples and giving the Great
Commission that we know so well.
Baptize...
Go and make disciples of all nations,
baptizing in the name of the Father, Son,
and the Holy Spirit, and teaching them
to obey everything I've commanded you.
And we realize that that word go is
don't go where you feel like going,
don't go what is comfortable for
you, don't go because, you know, it
fits into what you thought was gonna
be your next step, but you just go.
And, um, as crazy as it sounds, uh,
this is one of those opportunities where
both Lisa and I just said, "Hey, if He'd
have called us to, uh, Eastern Europe,
if He'd have called us to the Pacific
Rim, if He'd have called us to Latin
America or to Africa, we'd have gone.
Just hands down, we would've gone."
Uh, and, uh, sometimes, you know,
when you're in the West Coast, you can
feel like, you know, the Deep South
is completely a different country.
But the point is, is that the
older I get, it's more about who
I do ministry with than where I do
ministry, and the type of church.
And so it's, um, it's a
crazy piece of the journey.
It helps the small group network
continue to take those steps to develop
into the legacy, uh, organization
that it needs to, to raise that next
gen and help, uh, small group point
people, you know, all across the world.
It, it is a crazy endeavor.
We were a little bit coy with it, but
at the time, uh, this show was filmed
or, uh, recorded for, you know...
I am, I am in Mississippi.
I am gonna be there for commuting
back and forth for a little bit
while we deal with, you know,
logistical pieces with our house.
And so it is just, it is crazy.
Uh, but yet so refreshing to say,
"God, if you open the door, we're
walking through it," and, uh, as
scary as it can seem sometimes.
Breaking news, and, uh, if you'd have
told me you thought Lisa and I were gonna
land in Mississippi, I wanna talk to
you because I wanna find out what kind
of lotto numbers you're thinking about
Wow.
Well, there's the breaking news, and,
uh, I know I speak for a lot of people
when I say congratulations, Steve.
Uh, we're excited for you.
And, you know, this is just part
of life, and especially a part of
ministry is these changing seasons.
You know, leadership changes at
churches, seasons change at churches,
um, but God can do something new and
incredible in those new seasons, and
I think you're gonna thrive there,
um, from what little you've told me
about this, this new, uh, situation.
So, um, and hey, you might even
become an SEC college football fan.
Yeah, with that I could say heck no.
And I wasn't thinking heck.
But, um, you know, it is funny.
They are, they are very much
evangelists for that, that form of
a college football organization.
And so, uh, you know, it's, uh, they,
they bleed deep in the SEC, but bring
a little bit of the Big Ten to them.
So, uh, happy to do that because
that's what Jesus would do.
So here it comes.
Which, which team is closer to your
church, Ole Miss or Mississippi State?
They're almost, uh, equal
distance apart really.
Uh, one is to the northeast
and one is to the dead north.
And so- Well, you got two new teams then.
There you go.
Yeah.
It's kind of cool how the church
strategically put a campus in, uh,
Oxford and w- where Ole Miss is at and
in Starkville where, uh, Mississippi
State is at, and they also have a
campus in Clinton where one of the
largest community colleges is at.
So they strategically have been building
their campuses, which is, uh, kudos
to the, the leadership of Pine Lake
and how they, they were doing that.
But, uh, it's also interesting that, you
know, when you, you, you see all these
rivalries and you see what's happening.
At one of the services, gosh, it's
been about a month ago, Eric, I
even took a picture of it 'cause
I know how much you love Oregon.
But, uh, Chip, the lead...
That was very much a, a sarcastic remark
for those of you that don't know Derek,
uh, who is a Washington Husky fan, and
he has special words for the Oregon team.
But I say all that to say is because,
uh, Chip Henderson, who's the lead
pastor at Pine Lake, was doing, uh,
a story, uh, one of the messages that
was about, um, one of the people that
was there in Mississippi and a story
that led him to, uh, be with his buddy
and community no matter what, and he
happened to be seen as a great punter.
And he, he didn't make it for one of
the teams here in Mississippi, but,
uh, Oregon ended up picking him up.
And so, uh, up on the screen flashes this
Oregon Ducks, you know, picture of him.
Oh.
And, uh, but it had the Big Ten logo on
the bottom, which is why I took a picture
of it as Lisa and I have been watching
online till, uh, we physically are here.
So it's, uh, it's crazy, man.
So- That must have almost made you wanna
hurl I did take a picture of it, and
then Lisa told me not to send it to you
because that wasn't very nice of me.
I love Lisa.
Well, we are excited for you and Lisa and
your family, and, uh, that's the big news.
Is there any way people can support you
other than prayers and all that fun stuff?
Yeah, just, uh, you know, if people are...
I, I still am very entrenched
into the Small Group Network,
so steve@smallgroupnetwork.com
is still my email that
I look at all the time.
Uh, also my cell number will
stay the same, 949-836-6052.
So a lot of that stays the same.
And so, uh, Derek and I
will continue to be on here.
Uh, got a couple great shows
for you coming up in July.
Uh, at the lobby that happened a few
weeks ago, I did some, uh, raw interviews
with two of the most, uh, structured
people I know, Bill Donahue and Ron
Kelleher, both who have written books.
And we'll be dropping those, uh,
episodes to you in the month of
July so that Derek and I can have
a little bit of a breathing room.
But we'll be back in August and,
uh, helping you out and, uh,
serving you in special new ways.
Have some great announcements in
August, uh, for the Small Group
Network and some things that are coming
up in the fall that I hope you'll
be a part of if you're all access.
So lots of teasers out there,
but good stuff, and we're
excited to, uh, just continue on.
But appreciate the prayers.
Uh, thanks so much,
Derek, for the kind words.
And so we will just continue
to, to march on ahead.
And if God brings you through Jackson,
Mississippi, look me up, you know?
It's not quite SoCal, but,
you know, uh, we'll get there.
There you go.
Well, there is Steve's big breaking news.
So, uh, keep him in your prayers
and his family in your prayers.
And there are your four types
of groups every church needs.
Thanks to everybody for tuning in.
We hope this episode encouraged
you and equipped you to lead
better, healthier, smaller groups.
And until next time, uh,
we will see you soon.
God bless everybody.
Bye.
Louisa: Thank you for listening!
And don't forget to subscribe
wherever you listen to podcasts.
If you'd like to go deeper and get
more resources or join the small
group network, just head over
to small group network dot com.
We'll see you next time!