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Creativity isn’t tidy—it’s risky, chaotic, and full of surprises. It’s full of breakthroughs and breakdowns, moments of flow and moments of doubt. Join Mishu Hilmy for unfiltered conversations with artists, filmmakers, musicians, and fearless makers who thrive in the unknown, embrace imperfection, and create at the edge of possibility.
This is your front row seat to the self-doubt, unexpected wins, and messy emotional work of making something real. But craft isn’t just about feeling—it’s about problem-solving, process, and the devotion behind mastery.
Subscribe now for weekly episodes that celebrate the unpredictable, the playful, and the deeply human side of making things. Join the mailing list at mischiefpod.com
Email anytime at podcast@ohhmaybe.com and follow us @mischiefpod
Mishu Hilmy (00:03.244)
Welcome to Mischief in Mastery, where we embrace the ups, downs, and all around uncertainty of a creative life, and that steady, and sometimes not so steady journey toward expertise. Each episode we talk candidly with people I know, people I don't know, folks who produce, direct, write, act, do comedy, make art, make messes, and make meaning out of their lives. You will hear guests lay out how they work, what they're thinking about, where they get stuck, and why they snap out of their comfort zones and into big, bold, risky mo-
So, if you're hungry for honest insights, deep dives into process philosophies and practical tips, plus maybe a little mischief along the way, you're in the right place. For more, visit mischiefpod.com. Hey everyone, it's Mishu and welcome to Mischief and Mastery. Today we're talking with Kyle N. Grendis. Kyle is a Chicago-based filmmaker and editor who creates films highlighting people with different abilities in the communities often associated with the word
Disability. Her award-winning short bio documentary, Frazier Syndrome and Me, has screened at over 80 film festivals in 15 countries, and she's currently looking to expand that documentary into a feature-length film.
She recently earned her MFA in Film and Television Directing from DePaul University's School of Cinematic Arts. So it was an absolutely lovely conversation with Kyle and we chatted about a lot. We talked about building creative life right after film school and moving between art department work, directing, writing, and figuring out how to stay connected with your own voice and writing and all that while doing other collaborative projects. We also chatted about traveling and how that can help feed stories, defining what success is on a difficult writing day as well as small little
tricks that can make the work feel lighter, more sustainable over time and the fun habit of doing five years of vlogging. So it was a lovely, lovely conversation. You can learn more about her at kylangrendis.com and follow her on Instagram at kylan. So here it is without any further delay, a very fun conversation between me and Kyle. Enjoy.
Kyle Anne Grendys (02:01.102)
I graduated film school in two and immediately wanted to choose features as an art person. then a short, think, too. Yes, and a short as a production designer as well. So I was very much focused on art, which I do. I do think that that it is something in the creative process that if I'm not directing.
Like I could still create something from this, but it's telling somebody else's story. think it's a do it in my fun way. Cause like, I'm the only one that knows that this character likes daisies on their sheets because of their grandmother. Like I'm making it all up as I go, but I've made it back history. But I have been not writing like I normally have been. So,
I've been lucky enough to, I just got back from a month long trip in November where I, my whole goal is to write while I went around to Greece, London, and, I, so for all I own, all I did was just stand in my computer. and it wasn't always successful. So when I, but like the story I'm cooking in my head right now is set in Ireland. I, which.
is nothing yet, it's like a point-and-blank idea, but it was nice to be able to be like, okay, well, if you're not gonna rank, go find it. Which wasn't always successful, but it most of the time was. Having a hard time, it's been needing to be worked out.
Yeah.
Mishu Hilmy (03:48.834)
Hmm. I'm curious, you said, not so successful twice. So like what, what does that mean? Like when your writing hasn't been so successful or sort of trying to go out and find it not being successful.
There was a day that it was just a paragraph. I just added a paragraph to the script. it's like, the scene I'm trying to work on right now, it's like a break up scene. Like the girl literally just sits and does nothing. But for some reason I could not add those words. And all of that could be wrapped up in like, it's very much related to my own life and stuff because I can only write things I know like that. But.
So I get tied down in like details, but yeah, so an actual would be a paragraph.
So you're judging success based on the amount of volume you were able to achieve in that day, or is it more subtle of like, maybe it's not so much that it was just a paragraph and maybe it was like the, this is me projecting, but like the block of like, I normally have an easier time, but because of whatever headspace I'm in, I could only comfortably get down one paragraph.
Yes, absolutely. It's really it. Yeah, which isn't always that like there's sometimes it can be a paragraph, but like I see it. I think I kind of judge it by like if I know where I'm going next, when I walk away and I don't always know.
Mishu Hilmy (05:06.57)
Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. I'm always curious about like, what sort of, cause the definition of success or unsuccessful is sort of like an after the fact, I think, you know, cause like in the moment you're struggling or you're sort of present or you're enjoying it. But then once the moment of act, the act of writing is done, you have that beat or you're closing your software, you're putting away your, you know, your legal pads and you're like, wow, that was something. So it's just, I just think it's interesting like how we can evolve and define what that something ultimately was. Yeah.
For sure, yeah, it definitely had that moment of like, close the laptop, like, that was it. That was it.
Yeah. I still haven't figured out how to like do that walk away. I think I've gotten pretty good about not judging the experience of the work, but usually I write in like two minute increments. it's harder to like be too judgmental. Like, right, got my two minutes in and that's enough for today.
I think this is a wild one. I'd find I'm more successful on my phone. Yes, I write, I write a good chunk of stuff on my phone in my notes lab or on just on the software. because it's so, right. Like it's not sitting down. That's a laptop just feels so formal. don't know. know, like, okay, now writing happens. It's like where. Yeah.
On your phone?
Mishu Hilmy (06:29.304)
Yeah.
where my phone seems like okay, this could be a test. It's not, it's my thesis, but this could be a test.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think I think that's great because it's like the more important you make something or the more formal something feels the more the sort of the the ghost or the specter of importance kind of hovers around and then every time you're like well this should be important and if it's important it's got to be good or whatever so I think the interesting tricks or the the moments to discover like this part of my process I love it I love writing dialogue on my phone because it feels like I'm just watching a know group chat of people exchanging back and forth so
I think to find those moments where it's like, this works for me and I'm not going to judge it. It's worked for
I also do this thing I call a garbage project. It's like one thing is the project and then the other thing I'm just writing. That's garbage. doesn't have to be anything. Usually I end up being something I really like, but like no pressure.
Mishu Hilmy (07:29.73)
Yeah. Yeah. I think any trick to sort of like, or tool or strategy to make it more maybe joyful or dare I say mischievous or anarchic, think the better. Cause like I've been thinking about this recently around using the word trinkets. Like when we think of trinkets, they're small little things that maybe you collect, you put them around your office or you might give them to a loved one or a friend. And sometimes if you're crafting, it might take you five minutes to make a little trinket out of paper, random pieces of, know, sticks you have around.
Or sometimes it might take you a month, but it's still a trinket. And to like not judge like the little thing you're making to either give to yourself, your space or a loved one.
I like that. I like that. I might train to take girls through this. I think I can utilize that.
Yes,
Kyle Anne Grendys (08:22.328)
Hey, I kinda like that, I actually never really thought of that much. Genius. Make it scandalous.
Yeah,
Mishu Hilmy (08:30.688)
Yes, make it scandalous. Yeah. Yeah. And then like for art directing, art department and sort of production design, how, how did you sort of feel the impulse or find that like, Hey, I'm not writing right now. I'm not directing right now, but I'll support my friends or collaborators or different producers in production design. So what sort of instigated that, that, that route.
Yeah. first and foremost, my dad, is a set builder here in Chicago. so he is a unionized, shop that is, for local 476. And he has been making commercials sets for commercials my whole life. So it's always been there. my point being a kid that grew up in the hospital, all my appointments were downtown and my dad worked downtown. So like I know to work with dad.
I go to the doctor and we come back and I get to go pee a wall with him. And somehow that ends up being a cheese commercial. know, I, so I, it's always been a realm of my brain that I've been able to like foster in watching my family do it. My brother is also taken on that trait. So he was in, worked for Chicago PD as a game boss. And then he ended up working with my dad's player.
and they are now together in Big City. It's a yeah, so it's just an avenue in my brain that has always been there. I've had friends hear me and my dad talk about like a set before and they would say like, I wouldn't have known how to have a conversation. And I was like, that's weird because that's how we talk to each other. So it's it's an avenue I've always been very familiar with. And I knew going to film school that I
Mmm.
Kyle Anne Grendys (10:19.534)
didn't want to build sets. I don't want to do that. I don't want to, I don't find myself to be a big carpenter. I definitely couldn't use more arm days in the gym. It's just not my thing. I knew I didn't want to make sense. knew that what happened when I go and help my dad on set is I
Mm-hmm.
Kyle Anne Grendys (10:48.034)
We arrive, the lighting department arrives, and then all the big wigs are there talking about things, but I don't get to see those things. And then there's a final product that I didn't have any, I like helped the days before that. So I was always fascinated on what happened with when I leave. And I wanted to be a part of that, which is why I went to film school. And turns out when you're in a directing cohort, you can't always direct.
suffering
Kyle Anne Grendys (11:17.678)
That's not always you. It's like it's to be able to direct. So you get to go around a bunch of different jobs. And naturally I fell in love and I found that even though it can be tedious, there's a lot of tediousness in it. especially when it comes to like food or resetting a table scene. You know, my favorite.
It's like getting to decorate the kitchen. doing that. So it is an easy place to fall into and I found ways to make it work.
Yeah. Cause I think it sounds interesting cause it's like the set, the physical act of set decorating or fabrication or the actual build outs might not be something that's the most fulfilling. think it is working with your hands and you can get into a flow state, but it sounds like the preference is naturally writing, directing, and maybe more on the production design elements. Like I think it's probably more creatively fulfilling to design something and imbue the environment with character based off of the script and collaborating with the screenwriter and the director.
But so there's the production design versus like, all right, they need someone to physically make 30 fake hot dogs or whatever. All right.
They have times I can do it but real hot dogs is actually harder for it. So then you have to keep making hot dogs.
Mishu Hilmy (12:43.66)
Yeah, I am curious. in terms of like, because of that sort of background growing up, seeing the practical physical elements of what productions entail, like how is a mindfulness of not only set decoration, fabrication, production, design, but how is that art department, art directing informed, like your writing as well as your directing?
I recently graduated as I've said I had to make a thesis to do that And my thesis is probably blooming it's all about a girl who gets diagnosed with cervical cancer and in order to Just distract yourself from that if you're a creature to best friends to sleep with there so she can lose her virginity And it's very much very dramatic sized for you know something in my life, but
the fun part of thinking about the main character's is Harper because I wear a Harper on my head. Like those things were something that were already in the script. I have this transition in the doctor's office where we're looking at a painting in the doctor's office and there's a motif of it at the end. I wrote that in because my brain is just naturally in the art of it all.
Hmm?
Kyle Anne Grendys (14:00.366)
I it's a pretty okay film. I think it's pretty good. But we'll see. It's still, it's waiting to hear from festivals. But it is a thing that people walk away with easily is I love the motifs. All my motifs have to do with art. Everything. And I have like, I have three or four of them.
Mm-hmm.
Mishu Hilmy (14:19.246)
Mmm.
Mishu Hilmy (14:24.312)
And what do you mean by motifs? Like within the film itself, the short film, Late Bloomer's, are there references to art objects or like what?
There's a motif in this term is like we start in the doctor's office. We, she walks out of that picture and then that's exactly how we end the film is she walks out of that picture. And it's the credits roll on the picture. and then there's like, underwear she, she's getting ready for the, it opens in a gynecology office. So she, we, the first trap is drop of the panties.
and on her feet. And we do that when she's trying to hook up with her best friend, guy friend, we do the same job of the panties because life repeats itself and she is kind of stuck in this loop, which was very intentional. I think it was definitely something that was created from...
Yeah, I think it's interesting because it's sort of like if you have that experience, especially if it's something that's, you know, part of your, your deep connection with doing and making the work, seems like it does more access to think about the value and the sort of the strength of props as well as the set decorating. And then to use that in your image making, cause it's not an abstract thing. You're like, all right, I I've built and fabricated sets and they're
important to me. it's part of your shot listing process. how is your storyboarding, your process for storyboarding or sketching out, what's that like for you?
Kyle Anne Grendys (15:59.886)
For me, it depends on the scene. We, for that film in particular, we only storyboarded the intimacy scenes because this was my first time doing intimacy as a director and the lead actress is one of my best friends. So I wanted to make sure that everything was going through the teeth. Also, she was married to my ad producer and all these are...
Not needed to be for things to go right. Uh, like not needed in order to make things go right. I will always try to make things go right. And I really wanted it focused. So we did it. We, I hired an animator, um, and she storyboarded it. It cool. So came for us. We, uh, me and my DP sat down. My DP, uh, Maddie hot is amazing. I would do this really.
beautiful discussions like every week about every single scene and she is a she has this really good knack of helping me feel like she knows the story the second best she was able to sit in the animation meetings with me give insight to like okay here's what Kyle wants and here's what I'm talking about so like how do we what the which angle are we talking for this yeah
Yeah.
Kyle Anne Grendys (17:25.44)
It was, it was a really cool process, but other than that, like documentary, I don't really have the storyboard. I'm very much an editor first when I'm in documentary world. So I am editing in my head as I'm hearing the interviews. Yes. which works out very well. Does make me an encyclopedia of the edit, but it's really fun.
Nice.
Mishu Hilmy (17:52.238)
So in terms of like the documentary work, think we might've met, I don't know if it was like two or three, maybe three years ago, either Patrick Levin when you're a short doc, Frasier Syndrome and me was at that one, or maybe even before that, the Midwest Film Festival, I don't remember exactly. But for that, like, how did you go about it in terms of the outlining, the writing, capturing the material, and sort of in a maybe more academic sense of like, have this idea, and then going about it and that it's also a very personal story to you.
Yeah, I have rare genetic disorder called Swayze syndrome. I'm the 75th person in world to be diagnosed with it. I am making this number so bear with me but there's about 400 people from what I can gather. I live around Europe and I met six others living with it. I filmed a little short documentary as my capstone from undergrad IDW Milwaukee.
program. I knew when I applied to that school that that was going to be my final year. needed a capstone. It was kind of why I wanted to go to film school was to have the excuse to finish the film. I think I was probably, I want to say like 14 years old the first time I ever came up with the title Fisher's Syndrome and Me. And I thought it was going to be a book. For the 14 year old me, I she could write a book.
gripping and wire about living with a rare disorder. The same girl was carrying around a camera every day. She should have known, but I always knew I was going to tell the story in some way or another. I with just me and my family to do it in like 2000.
Mm.
Kyle Anne Grendys (19:45.742)
I did my first draft and that was just me and my family. And then I interviewed plastic surgeons who work on me. was a horrible interview, just poor man. But I was a baby. I didn't know that was a thing. I think it was a seven, no, I think it was an 11 minute film. Had all my friends in it. It was so cute. It was trying, but I knew I wanted to do better the second I did it.
So I applied to school and I, up to that point, I had not been confirmed. I have any other people living with it. I, when I was probably around the same age, 14, there was a little girl in Germany, a baby that was born and her mom found me on YouTube. And I was in contact with her mom. Sadly, the little baby passed away.
Mm.
Kyle Anne Grendys (20:44.43)
And to me growing up, was the only contact I had with Frasier. So I didn't think anybody was. I was probably 22 years old before I knew anybody but me was alive. Anybody who liked me was alive. So there, and it happened to me on a Facebook group, I got a request one day on Facebook for friends and family of Frasier and I immediately kicked myself. And so why didn't I think of that?
Kyle Anne Grendys (21:13.902)
luckily there were some families on there already and so when I got introduced to one I got introduced 40 and uh just about 40 and I uh knew I wanted to make that film so I went on I found a way to get student money for it by studying abroad first and then getting in Europe by studying abroad and then
So I had to tie it to my study abroad summer in Ireland. And so it's everybody in Europe, I messaged as a, Hey, I'm going to be here. I can make any date work within these two months. What do I need? And I also made sure to offer it in front of the camera and not. So I don't want you to say yes to meeting somebody like you. Just even though you're uncomfortable with the, like that is not what.
Nice.
Kyle Anne Grendys (22:11.598)
I'm doing here. I would love to have it. We are, we are people first. Most everybody said yes. There was only a no because of date complication, but most families said yes. And it was amazing. I do not remember the next idea question.
Yeah.
Mishu Hilmy (22:33.132)
No, I'm curious because it's like, yeah, so the, the, the, the sort of the somewhat removed process of like coming up with the form, the structure of the idea. So was it like, okay, I'm to do a beat she like, at first it sounded like maybe it was more intimate, like family, friends for this initial 11 minute short. And then as you got into school and had more opportunities to expand it. So was mostly curious, like.
How manufacturer, how organic was the building out of like what you need as a filmmaker storyteller to tell this story? So was it like, yeah, I gotta have, you know, maybe five 30 minute interviews plus capture this bureau. I'm curious what the outlining was like.
This is a spaghetti film as in I can spaghetti at the wall and so it's stuck. went to UWM as an experimental film school. So there was no structure for that. Which was great and it was a perfect it was perfect and what I needed, they gave me so much flexibility and they were just happy I turned anything in. They want a 10 minute movie. I turned in a 20 minute movie and they didn't. That was great. But I I.
I made a list of questions and I made sure to, Facebook stop for everybody, made sure to tailor to everybody involved. then after the first interview, we altered the questions that we saw fit. But since at this point,
I hesitate to say it because I usually, I don't want people to look for it. Hey, was a daily vlogger on YouTube. So for five years I did YouTube videos. didn't get that much traction, what it did teach me was how to edit. So every night I ended my day editing and it, it had to be done. had to be uploading while I was sleeping and posted by the morning. So.
Mishu Hilmy (24:23.438)
Mm.
Kyle Anne Grendys (24:39.918)
I learned what it is to make a quick edit and how to get a full day in the 10 minutes. So I found there was really transferable to, okay, while you're hearing these questions, what do you need to get? What are the beats? So like, it's a normal conversation. very adamant about, um, our interviews. They're not interviews, they're conversations.
Right. Yep.
because at the first and foremost, we are just two people with a room disorder trying to get to know somebody like them. So if I get a little beat in my head, I ask the question. I'm right there on the couch. It's natural. I'm going to say social skills, even though I feel like I laugh sometimes. It's just normal conversation, which was, think if I had, there's been a lot of times at DePaul when
taking more documentary classes for the first time after making a pretty successful documentary. I turned to some people in the class a few times and I'm like, see if I took this class before I made the doc, I don't think it would have happened. Because this is just so many things I didn't think about and I think I would have talked myself out of or think that I need to do it a certain way. And I think the beauty of it short is that
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Kyle Anne Grendys (26:05.515)
I just did it the way that made sense to anybody, making yourself.
Yeah. Yeah. I think it's an interesting discovery is like sometimes the more you learn, there's a risk of adopting a perspective of formality of like, well, this is what I learned of what a film set should look like, what should be done. It's most worst. will sort of like inhibit spontaneity and creativity at the best deal, you know, be a better craftsperson for and better artists. But I think there's the risk of like, well, you have to have a two camera setup and you have to have a box light with a, you know, soft lighting and honeycombs and all that.
And you need 20 people on set.
Yeah, for the documentary, I had a Canon T-File and I had two of them. No, I had three of them. And we did three camera set up. My parents came with me and they do not know how to turn their phone off or the one turn the camera on. So I would set it up. And while we were talking, that was really important to me, too.
be in the room with the camera, so just had it arrive. So we were talking our normal like, okay, what did you do with this metaphor complication? How did you, how did your hands get to you? Like we just talked our normal, get to know each other for our community. The whole time I'm playing with the camera and then while I get on the couch and we just have a conversation and my parents are behind making sure the camera's done. It's literally all there.
Mishu Hilmy (27:36.939)
Yeah.
And if they do, pause and I go back and I turn it back on.
Yeah. Yeah. And then like, like what you said, five years of like daily, daily video, video blogs for five years. So like in terms of maintaining that consistency, that momentum, I know you spoke to sort of lessons on quick edits, but I'm also curious, like there's a lot of lessons and laurels around just the sheer, the force of like five years of doing this regularly. So what kept, what kept you motivated as well as like, like.
What can be extrapolated around process to stay that consistent for future endeavors?
Yeah. I mean, figure out what works for you, right? Like I found that the everyday thing, I started as a new year's resolution for, I think, I to say 20, cause it had to be 2011 because it's the year I graduated high school. So I, thought that would be cool. the last half of high school. Um, I didn't film in my classroom or anything, but like my friend groups.
Kyle Anne Grendys (28:44.618)
Stuff like you know, I know this is going too fast. It was also that year that everybody said that the year it was gonna end in 2012 Like last year on earth, I'll film it Yeah, so it was just like I found that daily was the only way I can do it and even now It's like if I tried to do something every other day I'll forget the daily was such a good practice from my brain because
That's good motivator.
Kyle Anne Grendys (29:12.596)
It becomes a habit, it's repetition. And then it was, we never, I never got occasional videos with a lot of views and then they would take her off. But it was, it was enough to keep me interested in like, was early day YouTube, the social media of it all. And then I found it was so nice to be able to be like, so silly, but like, what day did we go to the mall?
together. we can watch the footage. Like I do it on my phone right now. Like I know I took that one picture of the day, that day. When did I take that picture? Like, that's the day I went to the mall. It's, it's more of like, found it to be a very beautiful scrapbook for me and my friends. We all cringe, know, but there's some really cool footage that I have that probably didn't need to be on the internet, but it was beautiful to capture.
Mm-hmm.
Kyle Anne Grendys (30:12.096)
If doing it for the internet was the only way for me to do it, I'd be a dick. You know?
Yeah. And then on the flip side, what was the winding down and the winding out process like, so it's like five years of this routine, this habit. And then what were the conversations like with yourself around, I feel ready to end this and you know, the feelings that might've come up with exiting that habit.
There, always allowed myself a couple of like one takers. So some days I didn't have to edit a video. It would just be this basically me sitting in front of something and talking and. And that was getting to be more frequent. Near the end, was getting a little tired of it. I also started undergrad officially, took a year, a gap year. My family owned a haunted house for a little bit.
So I didn't go to school right away. was working on the house Which was very fun, but we don't own it anymore. And I just knew that I couldn't keep it up in a dorm room and Nor did I want to five years sounded great to me And I didn't necessarily high school everybody in my hometown knew me as the
Mm.
Mishu Hilmy (31:39.47)
Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah. Well, that's the beauty of starting undergrad. It's like you're 17, you're 18 or whatever. And it's like, can choose a new identity that isn't tethered to the most awkward years of my life that everyone had to witness.
Yeah, it was it was great. I don't regret it. I cringe at it a little bit, but I don't regret it. I'm happy I walked away when I did occasionally I wish I had like I just bought a camcorder I bought a camcorder because I do miss having a camcorder
Mm-hmm.
Right. Yeah, I think it's like a really powerful impulse, especially at the, to reflect on that youthful energy or commitment or even naivete of like feel unselfconscious to a degree to like capture moments of the video. And as like a filmmaker, image maker, sometimes I meditate on the energy of who I was in the past versus who I am now. And it's like the impulse to go out with a camera when it's cold or dusty isn't as strong. So I think that's pretty interesting that you're like, all right, I feel a sentiment.
Why? I want to get a camcorder now. Yeah.
Kyle Anne Grendys (32:38.702)
So far I'm happy about it.
Wonderful. And then with the extending, so the plan is to extend the short, Frasier Syndrome and Me into like a feature length documentary. So like, what's that process been like given that it seemed like it had its proto form of being an 11 minute sort of time capsule, almost a family video into a various well-performed festival video and also educational video that's probably being accessed around the world to something even larger. like, what's, what's that like?
Yeah, so like I said, UWM won in a 10 minute video, I did 20. I still have caramites in footage. mean, mostly because it was a three camera interview, but also there's so much left to the story of who each person in the film is. I'm really only able to touch on everybody, but you don't know that Deanne, who is one of the
practice events, he had a baby through a surgeon like a week after I interviewed her and we have footage talking about it, but that's such a big conversation that like had me sick. I know you make it longer. yeah. So yeah, it's stuff like that. Like we barely touch on bullying. talk about being stared at, but bullying was such a huge part of my life. almost.
left high school because I was supposed to be really bully. And I know I'm not the only one. That's a social call to action for me in my life. I would love to come past that in any way, shape or form. I can't get over bullies. It's a way of life. The more I think the more that you see people that are different, they're off the world list. So there's, I am an adult now and 30, 32.
Mishu Hilmy (34:28.462)
Mm-hmm.
Kyle Anne Grendys (34:38.094)
Almost. What's my likelihood of having kids? Am I going to go the same route as Deanna, who was the first one of us to do it? I'm in the second. What is that? all this stuff. Because of the success of the show, there's so many other families and brothers in Australia that I really wanted to meet. And like, I haven't seen brothers before. Like, let's do it.
Unfortunately, babies, parents of babies that did not make it because part of the disorder is you could be more aware without kidneys. I have one, but some do not have any or our trait is very small. Sometimes that doesn't work out and I want to give a little bit of a voice to the moms that want to talk about their kids. So there's, there's a lot of, know, and it's so exciting. Um, I need funding.
Mishu Hilmy (35:36.76)
Yeah.
Especially right now, what a psycho battalion to ask people for money.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what a vulnerable challenge. Cause also it's such a rare, rare syndrome and such as that it would probably be even harder at the more specific niche level of grants and fundings versus maybe funding at a more, larger level. But when it's more broad, there's probably a lot more competition and also probably a lot more form filling out to make your case for funding. like what portion of that.
Cause I think that's the administrative, produce, or your role and given it is you're both writing, directing, editing, producing this, like how have you been balancing the administrative producer elements of something that isn't maybe as creatively fulfilling as getting to interview people and cut it and outline.
The beautiful part of film school now is that I have a team. For the first time, is not my parents behind the camera. It is a whole team of producers that I also get to call some of my best friends. I want to see this movie as well. I know when I have a hand in it, which I'm just so lucky for. I am still writing the grants. I'm doing all that stuff, but I get to shoulder with somebody.
Kyle Anne Grendys (36:55.54)
that also learned alongside me, which is really nice because Spaghetti Kyle was what we'll call the other Frasier movie. Would not have known how to write a proposal at all. And that is where Film School did really. Basically, I can't say it's a good grand proposal yet, nothing to it, but we're trying everything.
Ha ha.
Kyle Anne Grendys (37:23.738)
I have a really good team and it's nice to be able to be like, can somebody look at this while I look at this? And things are moving. And now the next time we go out, I have a sound person and I will have an assistant director with me. So then they can go do the film stuff. I get to be Kyle, a person with Frasier talking to a person named Here, a person with Frasier.
yeah.
Mishu Hilmy (37:54.22)
And then like for you, like how did you develop a team and what was, has been successful in kind of creating those relationships and making those teams? I think at a certain point filmmakers, especially at the independent level, cross the threshold of like either I'm sort of just a one person band and I'm doing it all myself to go like, actually I need to learn how to delegate and need to learn how to like ask for help. like what's been successful in terms of creating a team and
How did you sort of cross that threshold into being a one person unit or with help with your family to something a little bit more team-oriented?
It definitely begrudgingly was it that I definitely said. It took a minute for me to be like, try to do, try to do this with other people. Because essentially filmmaking is a big group project. And they're famously not very fun at school. But that is film school. That is filmmaking in general. So just keep doing it and find the people that you can vibe with. I got very lucky.
in the sense of like the first person I hired as a DP at school. Well, like we made three films together while I was in school and it was a no brainer when I knew I wanted to do this to ask her to do it with me. And then the rest has been slowly building through sets. The my head producer, two of my all three of my head producers are a part of my cohort at school. So we all entered in film school together.
they have known me for three years and they've seen the raw, vulnerable parts of my art already. And I was a little, not that I, not that I wasn't very vocal about Frasier. My, my having it, yes, but the Frasier movie, I was not very vocal going into school.
Mishu Hilmy (39:50.318)
Mm.
That's all my own insecurity of being like, people would think I know what I'm doing. So I just didn't, I didn't tell anybody and tell anybody about, heart art history. I didn't find anybody about the documentary. just let it organically come up later in life. And so it was probably like a year in before anybody even knew. And it was because the school announced that I won Midwest film festival.
I mean like people could have easily set. Yeah, yeah, so that was the that was the eye-opening and I liked I liked it I don't know if I necessarily needed to feed my Insecurity that way but I like the organic nest of like I got to just get to meet these people without being Well being like here's what I've done. We comparing interesting
which I think is a rare thing about our forward. Anyways, so three years of being raw with people is how I built that team.
Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious. it, was it sort of like a insecurity of a shame or a shame of like, is a successful short film and I don't want the success to make people sort of treat me differently. Cause it doesn't sound like you were ashamed of the work, the, the, you know, the quality of it, but rather like not to be seen as other or a part because it had done well.
Kyle Anne Grendys (41:18.452)
Yes, it's definitely the... being seen as other or apart for sure. But... I need to stress, no, I'm not fucking... No, but it was a narrative film program.
Mmm, yeah.
I don't, in my head, they were so different that I didn't want any of anything in like, can hire her to do sound. She did sound for this short doc that won all these awards. Like no, I cannot get the sound. didn't have a mic. You can very well hear it all much more. So like stuff like that of like, I don't want it to say more about my skill level than I could give because I'm still learning just like everybody else.
Yes, have done some cool shit in all around the world with it, but like, just had a really, really good story to tell and had some of the knowledge of how to do it, which there is something to do essentially.
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Because also like you, you came from a background where it was like experimental filmmaking. was there also like, like a kind of hang up of like now moving into the narrative world and like my past work was experimental and doc and trying to just sort of fit in maybe, I don't want to say sort of quietly fly under the radar, but just focus on learning narrative as purely as possible.
Kyle Anne Grendys (42:40.494)
Yeah, was a moment when I signed up for DePaul, there was a little check of like, which one, which degree are you going to pick? And I remember I called one my best friend and was like, I don't know what you want to do. Do I major in documentary or do I major in directing? And she did this, I purposely asked a friend who is a PT. So she had no film world experience at all. So she's like, well, don't directors.
direct documentaries. And I was like, yes, I do. Um, then she's like, so you already are a director. I was like, yes, but I've already made a doc. I want to prove that I can make a short. Um, and then I'm not, I don't need to prove that to anybody other than me, but I want to know that I can do it. And so it was the insecurity and it was the, like, I actually don't know if I can make a narrative. don't know if this skill level is going to translate.
I love the way that Frasier Me is edited. I think it feels really fresh. Like, it doesn't give you too much room to breathe. I like the pace. Can I do that with a narrative? Like, is that going to be rip-washed? And like, I don't know. Can I edit it? Hello? I did it. I ended up hiring an editor. Yeah. Which was perfect. Like, somebody who, Laurie Felker, who is my mentor.
Nice, nice.
Kyle Anne Grendys (44:08.834)
There was also a bit of a West Fest with her film Picket. She is like, this is narrative. She's like, it feels like Frasier. I don't know how you did that. I did it because I didn't know I did it because I guess what I'm attracted to. So it was it was all in French and all in the sense of I didn't want people to assume anything other than what was showing up to.
Yeah. Yeah. And it sounded like you sort of really reflected through the sort of insecurity and the vulnerability around like, well, what do I, how do want to challenge myself? You know, I've already created docs. I've already directed docs, but, in terms of what to study, to commit to something that you're wobbly in, in like, can I do this? And I think it's like a beautiful testament to choosing something challenging where you're like, don't know if I'll succeed in it. And then you did, or you're, you're, you're doing it and you're learning and you've got out of it.
So I think that's like great.
I'm very proud of what these have said. very, because late boomer is very, it was exactly what I didn't know I wanted to make.
Yeah. So, late bloomers going through is sort of the festival submission process, Festival Run. then you're currently also developing the feature length doc for Frazier's Syndrome and Me. I'm curious about your narrative, how the proportion of new narrative works, whether it's a new short or developing a longer maybe feature length project. Where does like the narrative feature, you know, non-documentary kind of fit in your.
Mishu Hilmy (45:42.99)
plan or kind of mindfulness next few years.
now like I said I get a little bog on my details so as of right now they have no plan for the narrative feature I have ideas I have plenty of ideas sometimes I have too many ideas but I don't know where in life it's gonna come I do think that eventually I will make it um I'll make one but as of right now I'm working on the doc
Nice.
And I am happy to do shorts, like them. I like how much time I can commit to them. And then I'm helping. I'm okay keeping art for my friends. good features. Which keep on coming.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, also it's like, right to like, kind of contribute and either make sets, be on sets, design, and kind of flex that creative muscle. I'm curious around maybe the, the impulse or the sort of the way of advocating for a Frazier syndrome, because it sounded like even before you found that Facebook group, were like, you got connected with someone who had a child and that kid passed. Like, how do you, how do you hold the sense of either weight or responsibility you give yourself as like a storyteller of like,
Mishu Hilmy (47:02.1)
I am now the de facto person who is creating stories. Not that you're saying you're the de facto person, like, are you, you know, holding onto that, that maybe that pressure you give yourself or don't give yourself.
Absolutely. I do take it to be a really big responsibility to create anything that has a true lens that is different. I take having a disability in general, I'm a disabled female filmmaker, and it does first and foremost. Every story I have made and will probably ever make touches on them in some way or another. A late bloomer did, I made a really crappy shirt.
called Assumptions. It was my first one at DePaul, but you gotta give those kinks out. It was about somebody who had a hearing loss. Even the feature that's just an idea right now is about somebody with a disability as well, finding love for the first time. It's so much a part of who I am that it would be false to ever write anything that's not that.
Yeah. therefore I take that responsibility with pride. I think that it is something that I am taking with myself, my call to do. even if it's me, I calling. yes, I, I think it's, can weigh me down sometimes. Like if I, if I think about it too hard, but so far just living is enough.
huh.
Mishu Hilmy (48:41.452)
Right. Yeah.
I just don't remember that.
Totally. Yeah, I I think it's just, it's kind of, it's beautiful and heartbreaking because like to imagine you as a young, young artist, young person who's like, I don't know if how, how, how many other people who are out there who are like me and who are alive. that, that question was unanswered for a large part of your life.
And I'm
It's slowly, like I have the only one. that sort of, loneliness is heartbreaking or that uncertainty is also heartbreaking, then to, through your own sort of will and through the power of technology and the community, like finding people who are similar. I just think it's a beautiful burden perhaps for you of sharing those stories rather than hopefully there's not another kid, you know, somewhere in the world just like, all right, I don't know how long I'm going to live or however many other people who have this.
Mishu Hilmy (49:32.03)
You're at least one additional voice to say like, hey, like we're living, we're trying to make it work like a flawed human being every day.
I can't make any promises, but hey, I did. I did this. you can. yeah, no, I think it's, if there's some horrible parts of the internet and there's some beautiful parts of the internet, you looked up Frazier syndrome before the short, and it was horrible statistics. it wasn't me. It wasn't anybody that looked like me. It wasn't, it wasn't anybody living at the moment.
Yeah.
Kyle Anne Grendys (50:09.418)
So now you look it up and you see the short and you see some, you see some beautiful people. You see not only from my short, but some new people as well that thank gosh that there was a universe where 10 year old Kyle gets to Google something for the first time and, see something that is nice.
That's great. Yeah. And then I'm curious, like given sort of how uncertain the creative landscape is and just the world is in general, like how have you sort of developed, you know, staying motivated or navigating uncertainty?
I'm gonna be honest, it's hard sometimes. My friend recently sent me this article and I wish I could tell you who it was by but it was all about the art of being antsy.
Mmm, nice.
which is something I'm trying to learn because I am so against the at the moment, but I've been taking, just say yes when I can, which is at the moment very frequently because I am currently unemployed. But say yes when I can and just keep stretching the muscle. That's the thing. I feel like I can't, I've been getting a lot of rejections from staff, not from Rick.
Kyle Anne Grendys (51:25.486)
you know, you start with the top tier festivals where you're going and then you get all those notes and then you trickle it down. So I've gotten those top tier notes and we knew it was the case. is okay. every time I get a no, I apply to something else to open the door again, because like that is something in my brain needs to do. It needs to not get bogged down by the fact that that was a no, even if it was a far fetch, no. and just keep.
Mm-hmm.
Kyle Anne Grendys (51:56.238)
trying to open more doors. The art of being antsy is that moment when you're panicking and you do all those things to try to fix it. Those are the things that you end up doing to make you last, like to get yourself out of that hole. So, so I'm trying to find.
Hmm.
Mishu Hilmy (52:16.088)
Yeah. Well, thank you so much for sharing and Kyle. This has been just such a lovely conversation.
I can't believe we got us in an hour. Honestly, I thought I wouldn't have enough business.
Happy to hear, yeah, this is so much fun.
you
Mishu Hilmy (52:38.328)
Before sending you off with a little creative prompt, I just wanted to say thank you for listening to Mischief and Mastery. If you enjoyed this show, please rate it and leave a review on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts. Your support does mean a lot. Until next time, keep taking care of yourself, your lightness, curiosity, and sense of play. And now for a little mischief motivation. Alright, mischief prompt.
This one, yeah, I felt inspired by the garbage project. this is a take on Kyle talking about the side project, the garbage project. Create a second document or folder or file and literally label or save the file as garbage and just create something, whether it's a Photoshop document or a final draft script or a doodle or something, and take five, 10 minutes of just writing or making whatever you want. Heck, you don't even have to save it if you don't like it or...
Doesn't matter. Save it, don't save it. Just make something that has no future plan, that has no reuse requirements about it, and just create something. Do five, 10 minutes of something that can be disappeared or deleted so you can just create without the pressure of it having to be good or something big and important. So yeah, try just forcing yourself to spend five, 10 minutes creating a quote unquote garbage project.
So yeah, that's it. Thanks for listening this far and hope you have a great rest of your day.