Note: This transcript was exported from the video version of this episode, and it has not been copyedited
00:00:00:01 - 00:00:21:16
Tony Jordan
I do think that as ironic as it is that, you know, parking is contentious, right? Like people fight over it and it literally physically fight. But when it comes to people who recognize the impact of these policies on their issue areas, it actually I was on a stage with Chuck Marohn and Ilhan Omar. You know, like it's like, you know, like it's a it bridges a divide.
00:00:21:16 - 00:00:27:13
Tony Jordan
And I think that it is a common ground, especially in these times where maybe people can, can kind of work together.
00:00:27:20 - 00:00:51:12
John Simmerman
Hey everyone. Welcome to the Active Towns channel. My name is John Simmerman. And that is Tony Jordan with the Parking Reform Network. We're going to be covering what PRN is all about and why parking reform is so crucial to creating a walkable, bikeable, livable, and affordable housing communities. And we'll also be paying tribute to, Professor Donald Shoup, who we just recently lost.
00:00:51:18 - 00:00:58:23
John Simmerman
So let's get right to it with Tony.
00:00:58:25 - 00:01:02:20
John Simmerman
Tony Jordan, thank you so much for joining me on the Active Towns podcast.
00:01:02:22 - 00:01:06:18
Tony Jordan
Thanks. It's been I've been wanting to be on this podcast for a while. So I kind of give.
00:01:06:21 - 00:01:22:09
John Simmerman
You it's kind of a almost a running joke every time we run into each other and we're like, oh dang. Yeah, we got to get you on for sure. What what I love giving my guests, an opportunity to do is just introduce yourself. Take 30s to let everybody know who Tony Jordan is.
00:01:22:11 - 00:01:49:10
Tony Jordan
Great. Well, I'm Tony Jordan. I live in Portland, Oregon. I am the founder of the Parking Reform Network. Which is a national nonprofit that works on parking policy reform. I have kids, we haven't had a car for a long time, since 2008. I have a background as a union organizer and a software developer. I grew up in Los Angeles and went to UC Santa Cruz, and I now spend most of my time talking to people about parking.
00:01:49:16 - 00:01:51:12
Tony Jordan
I'm just like this.
00:01:51:14 - 00:01:55:18
John Simmerman
Fantastic. Nice. Nice. Oh. What part of L.A. are you from?
00:01:55:21 - 00:02:14:28
Tony Jordan
I'm from San Pedro. Actually, on your podcast. On the last podcast with, the first one of the season with, Professor Shoop. He mistakenly said I was from Wilmington, which is, you know, which is between Long Beach, where he's from, and Saint. He. I'm just glad he didn't say I was from Palos Verdes, you know. Wilmington.
00:02:14:29 - 00:02:15:16
Tony Jordan
Yeah. Okay.
00:02:15:17 - 00:02:21:22
John Simmerman
Oh, gosh. Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, Saint Pete, what was it like growing up there?
00:02:22:06 - 00:02:51:20
Tony Jordan
Isolated? No, I mean, it's it. You know, I like saint. I love San Pedro. I will defend it. You know, I it's a it's a cool place. It's, I think one of the last kind of blue collar towns on the coast of California until you get Takeda, right? I mean, and, And, you know, I liked growing up there, like, visiting, but it is, you know, it's a there was a end of the 110 freeway is just a couple blocks from my house and not going anywhere outside of San Pedro was very difficult.
00:02:51:20 - 00:03:11:20
Tony Jordan
And I didn't drive when I was a teenager or my parents weren't really able to, you know, take us to a bunch of places. And so, you know, I had access to the beach and that was fantastic. And I did a bunch of fun stuff. But like the cultural amenities of Los Angeles, the museums, the sports teams, the, you know, like that was a lot harder to get to.
00:03:11:20 - 00:03:24:27
Tony Jordan
And and that's part of why I moved. I went to Santa Cruz for college and then moved out to Portland. And part of that was, you know, the subconsciously at least, like the the smaller, not as far away kind of I left. Right. Yeah.
00:03:25:02 - 00:03:51:05
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. Well, it didn't take us long before we mentioned, Professor Shoop Shoop dog. We knew that that was going to happen. And, in fact, just this past week, we did lose, Don and, so we all are deeply saddened, by his passing. I understand it was a relatively quick, you know, illness or and relatively recent as well.
00:03:51:06 - 00:03:52:18
John Simmerman
Is that correct?
00:03:52:20 - 00:04:26:03
Tony Jordan
Yeah. It was a couple weeks ago. He, was stricken. But just about three weeks ago, and it went pretty fast from there. And I know that he was initially, he was able to visit with some folks, his colleagues and and friends in Los Angeles. And then he went back home for hospice for a few days and was with his wife, Pat, and, and a niece, and he was able to look at his windows and, you know, be in his see his garden.
00:04:26:03 - 00:04:30:04
Tony Jordan
And now, you know, he's at rest.
00:04:30:07 - 00:04:57:01
John Simmerman
Yeah, he's at rest. And it's very and as you mentioned, I did have another episode with him, quite recently. It, it basically posted on January 10th, kicking off this new season on the podcast. And so that's my most recent photo with him. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to be with him in the same room, but it was nice being side by side and our our split screen, a little there.
00:04:57:03 - 00:05:14:18
John Simmerman
And, that was actually recorded in December. So it wasn't in January. But he and I were we were actually communicating back and forth during the fires because I was worried about him. And I was like, are you okay? And he was like, yeah, the fires are close. But right now, you know, they're, you know, we're fine.
00:05:14:18 - 00:05:31:09
Tony Jordan
So yeah, I mean, one can't I mean it's, it's it's yeah, obviously I'm guessing they had bad air and smoke and you know, and a lot of luminaries in Los Angeles and passed recently and you might wonder, you know, like, yeah, I mean, it's just the sign of our times. But no, this was a great a great podcast.
00:05:31:09 - 00:05:49:29
Tony Jordan
I've loved seeing the more recent videos with him. Yeah. And I was just thinking, looking at this, how one of the bright spots, the few bright spots about the pandemic was we all got used to this kind of virtual recording. And, you know, I, I it's hard to believe in and, you know, 2019 that would have been possible, right?
00:05:50:02 - 00:05:56:01
Tony Jordan
No one had the equipment. We all learned how to do it. So there's a lot more, besides the interviews that are out there now. It's great.
00:05:56:01 - 00:06:14:05
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. No, you're absolutely right. Because the first time I had them on it was just audio only. But it was it was really special to be able to share the visuals and really walk through that. And, yeah. As, as you mentioned, I'm glad you fat check fact checked him. You know, he had to pay up for willing.
00:06:14:05 - 00:06:31:02
Tony Jordan
To do it. I was I was like, I was like, that's a picture I'm from from Wilmington. I'm he knows I, I mean, not not that Don Johnson. I'm from I'm from Wilmington. I mean, it's kind of funny. I mean, I lived, you know, in the part of San Pedro that is a little bit closer to, to Wilmington.
00:06:31:02 - 00:06:52:18
Tony Jordan
So, you know, that's fine. But it's been a little joke around. It's been a joke around here since. Since that, that aired, I was, you know, but I, I'm just happy you knew I was. And it mentions me on podcasts and, you know, you know. Yeah, it's, but I didn't think it was interesting because he, you know, him being born in Long Beach and it is right across the bridge, you know, like from the same from the same area.
00:06:53:13 - 00:06:56:12
Tony Jordan
And, yeah, maybe there's something in the water, I don't know.
00:06:56:20 - 00:07:18:00
John Simmerman
I'm gonna pop back over to your, your your website. Yeah. Because he did share a little bit of that story of how, you sort of, you know, started following up with him and, you know, started, you know, visiting with him on an annual basis when you would come back down and visit family. But I won't say anything more.
00:07:18:00 - 00:07:34:08
John Simmerman
I'll let you kind of fill in the gaps. And we're still looking at the parking reform, network. A website here. Yeah. So how did you get fascinated by this topic? You gave a little bit of a tidbit of what your background was, but what was that?
00:07:34:08 - 00:07:48:12
Tony Jordan
Your story doesn't. It doesn't really make sense. Right? I, I mean, I think part of it I think one of the first steps was, we got rid of our car in 2008, as I mentioned. We had I have an 18 year old now and a 14 year old. So my son was two years old. My daughter wasn't born yet.
00:07:48:14 - 00:08:12:04
Tony Jordan
We got rid of our car and we were using car share. And I think that and I was riding my bike to work. And I think that is fertile ground for Dan's ideas to land. Right. Like that's where you know, people a lot of the more fervent, shoe does our car free or car light or have been and and at the time, though, I was just going about my way, there was mostly our car broke and we decided it was cheaper not to not to use it.
00:08:12:04 - 00:08:30:14
Tony Jordan
We live in Portland. We had busses and bikes. Then in 2010, I randomly I came across there's a web blog called Meta Filter. And there was a post on there by this guy Michael Druker, who, it was just it was called like the high cost of free parking. And it just talked a little bit about some of his research.
00:08:30:14 - 00:08:50:07
Tony Jordan
And I, read the post, and I was intrigued because I never thought about this. And so I got a copy of the book from Interlibrary Loan. It was only in hardback at the time. And, and I started reading it, and I mean, I read the whole thing. I was, I was kind of I was blown away.
00:08:50:07 - 00:09:09:19
Tony Jordan
Don actually asked me one time a couple of years back, like, what? What were you thinking when you read the book? And I said, I said, I said, I was like, shocked. I said, it's kind of like I felt like I was eating a hamburger and reading The Jungle in the early 1900s, you know, the Upton Sinclair's, you know, expos in meatpacking.
00:09:09:21 - 00:09:37:01
Tony Jordan
I, I live across the street from a parking lot for a bar, and I never had really thought about which I think most of us is the case, why the parking was there, how much, how big it was, what, how much it costs. And and so you're reading this book and it's just like, wow. Like all of a sudden I use a slide a lot of times in my presentations of Rowdy Roddy Piper putting on, you know, the glasses and they live and seeing the aliens running everything.
00:09:37:01 - 00:09:52:14
Tony Jordan
And it's like it's like, wow. Like, this is crazy. So I read the whole thing. I was started talking about it and I went, I looked in Portland zoning code and it wasn't that bad. It was actually very progressive for the time. And so I was like, oh, well, I don't there's nothing really I can do better here right now.
00:09:52:16 - 00:10:14:09
Tony Jordan
And then but then a couple years later, there was a big neighborhood dust up in Portland because they started building apartments with no parking on Division Street. And the neighbors convinced the city to propose adding parking mandates back. We actually had them on the corridor since 2002, and I was like, I read this book and I started. So first I went to city council and I met some people and I realized they weren't very organized.
00:10:14:09 - 00:10:34:15
Tony Jordan
So I was that was one thing. I had a union organizing background, so I was kind of like, let's get a mailing list and go. And then I shortly thereafter sent an email to Professor Shoup and said, hey, professor, like, you know, there's something bad going on. I need your help. You know, like, what can you do? And everyone I think that was the story of like, his later life was people writing to him and asking for help.
00:10:34:17 - 00:10:51:18
Tony Jordan
And, you know, he's not coming over to Portland to give a presentation or whatever. So but he was like, I'll write an op ed. So he wrote an op ed for the, for the Oregonian. And, I kept in touch and we lost. They added these mandates back, but I kind of resolved at that point, like, like, okay, we're not going to lose next time.
00:10:51:18 - 00:11:09:08
Tony Jordan
So I kept my mailing list going. I got on some committees, and then a couple years later, I started a local organization called, Portlanders for Parking Reform. Initially we called it PDX says, and Don wisely told me, don't call it that. No one knows what that means. You know, call it something sensible like Portlanders for parking reform.
00:11:09:08 - 00:11:26:12
Tony Jordan
So I said, okay. And it was around that time. Then I realized, hey, I'm going to Los Angeles every year for Thanksgiving. You know, my sister's a Bruin. Like I should just come I so I reached out to him and the first year we did it, the first year he had to cancel because I think he had some medical procedure.
00:11:26:12 - 00:11:43:12
Tony Jordan
But then, the following year, I met him. I think, you know, I, I when I first reached out to him, I think Don had to like, you know, he was very friendly, but I think he had to kind of like, hold people, like, at arm's length. Right? Like, initially not at arm's length, but like, you know, okay, is this person, you know, and I remember the first time I went, we had lunch, I met him at the faculty Club.
00:11:43:15 - 00:11:57:12
Tony Jordan
We had lunch, and then he said, okay, see you later. And he walked off to his office. And then like over the years, I would, you know, like I'd follow him to his office and then I'd follow him upstairs, you know, and I followed him home, like, like literally like kind of just, like, slowly kind of getting, it spent more time.
00:11:57:12 - 00:12:24:04
Tony Jordan
I always would just schedule it. So as much as possible, I didn't have anything to do after we had lunch. And then I would kind of just, like, hang around as long as he would tolerate me until he got tired up. And so we did that for about ten years up until, last time I was there, wasn't Thanksgiving, but, I saw him in the summer, and I remember I, we hung out in his office and we talked about parking for several hours, went to lunch, and then when Pat came to pick him up, I said, Pat, I, you know, we've done about five hours.
00:12:24:04 - 00:12:43:14
Tony Jordan
I think he's good for at least a little while where he won't need to talk about parking. Like, like, and so yeah, it was like it was always just so just slowly building that relationship and really getting to spend the time with him and, you know, kind of just hearing stories or getting advice and bouncing ideas. And I'm really grateful for that opportunity.
00:12:43:14 - 00:13:05:26
Tony Jordan
And, you know, like help and support of our organization and really that like, legitimacy of being affiliated with him was really important in an, in an in a situation like this where we're trying to, you know, be able to credibly advise cities and kind of take, carry on the mission of building this, this movement around.
00:13:05:28 - 00:13:11:24
John Simmerman
And his work. Yeah. Do you remember what year that was when you discovered the book.
00:13:11:27 - 00:13:30:15
Tony Jordan
2010? It was like, August 2010. Yeah. So summer, 25 years after it came out. But, so it was a little late on the game. But, you know, and I really wish I had learned about this sooner. I, I, I wish I could have hung out with him when he was younger, you know, I mean, he was he was an active, older fellow.
00:13:30:15 - 00:13:43:21
Tony Jordan
But, you know, we didn't we didn't get to party at all, you know, and I've heard I've read some stories. I mean, there's a lot of stories going around, memorials that I think, you know, it would have been fun to, you know, hang out with, with him and Pat when they were, you know, when they were younger.
00:13:43:24 - 00:14:13:11
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's, that's that's fascinating. And so you, you read the book, you started these annual visits and you started because of what was happening locally. You pulled together this, this, you know, Portlanders for, for parking reform. How did that then morph into a national initiative for the parking reform network?
00:14:13:14 - 00:14:32:12
Tony Jordan
Yeah. Great question. So, you know, as I mentioned, when I, when I first locally started going to planning Commission to talk about parking, there was a great there were I met I met a few of the regulars. Right. There was a there was a little bit of a zoning scene. There's this, person, Doug Klotz, who is like, he's really an amazing fellow.
00:14:32:12 - 00:14:49:22
Tony Jordan
And Portland has a great advocacy scene for transportation and land use. And Doug is like the godfather of that scene. Like, you know, he went to the first time with the planning Commission. He was like, here's what you do. You know, here's you would point out who's who's for what we're talking about, who's against it, and kind of give us some talking points.
00:14:49:22 - 00:15:09:20
Tony Jordan
So but but he but we weren't there was no like mailing list to turn people out to testimony. So I did that. And partly I reached out to like I went to the groups, the Facebook group that existed, and I kind of would ask questions and it wasn't like I wasn't getting what I wanted out of that. Like, you know, there was one it was geographically very large.
00:15:09:20 - 00:15:29:16
Tony Jordan
And then also, like, it's not wasn't really organizing focused. It was more planning. And, you know, like people sharing, you know, there's people it was this a lot of this former students and things. And so after a couple years, I had, you know, gotten involved in the Yimby movement, and our Portland like, neighbors welcome group organization in Portland for everyone.
00:15:29:16 - 00:15:53:26
Tony Jordan
And as we were passing our zoning reforms, which are complementary to this, they included, repeal of residential parking edits. And then around that time, I had started talking with a person, another colleague here, Michael Anderson, who works for Sightline Institute. And we were talking about, like, you know, is there a way to do, like, a national, like a Green Lane project, which he had worked on, which is a bike lane project for parking.
00:15:53:29 - 00:15:57:15
John Simmerman
People for bikes? That was the old people for bikes program. Yeah.
00:15:57:18 - 00:16:16:06
Tony Jordan
Yeah. And we pitched that around to a couple organizations. And the consensus was, you know, like it's hard to find funding for parking reform and, you know, like, no one was interested in it. So another year or so went by and, and I really like I was feeling like, okay, when I did this, I felt pretty isolated, not isolated.
00:16:16:06 - 00:16:36:00
Tony Jordan
I mean, there was a community, but there wasn't, like, really like there was no organization that Strong Towns had some of this. Although even at this point there were a lot smaller. I think starting towns was, you know, a smaller organization. But but it wasn't like there was no central place, like no movement there. And especially that was focused on everything, right?
00:16:36:00 - 00:17:02:05
Tony Jordan
That was focused on the housing part of it and the transportation part of it. And the, you know, even the parking benefit district. So the holistic view. So that's where I'd said, you know, like we should this I was like, I think that's what I think there needs to be someone with an organization that does this. And I was at the, APA in 2019 where there was a big panel about parking in the city.
00:17:02:07 - 00:17:22:22
Tony Jordan
And there were a couple folks I knew from Chicago, Lindsey Bailey and, Jane Wilbur Dean and I met this guy, Mike Kwan, who was a recent graduate, with a, urban planning degree. And we were all talking, and I. And I told them kind of, you know, I was I was interested in starting up this organization.
00:17:22:22 - 00:17:48:08
Tony Jordan
And so we formed a small board, and I had a lawyer friend here, and we kind of just got it going, you know, and just like, went for it because I just felt like no one like it was really like, okay, if if it's going to happen, it's going to happen. I was able to do this. You know, I had a, relative that, passed away the year before and I, you know, had the ability to kind of like, quit my job for a while and, and do that.
00:17:48:08 - 00:18:02:26
Tony Jordan
And, I mean, you know, I know that's very, not everyone gets the opportunity to do that. And, you know, it's like, well, I, you know, figured day, like, if now's the time, if it's going to happen. And so it's been it's been a ride. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
00:18:02:29 - 00:18:10:08
John Simmerman
Well, and speaking of a ride, you know that. Yeah. I mean, you could have taken that money and just bought a really, really nice car.
00:18:10:10 - 00:18:35:13
Tony Jordan
But yeah, I, I was asked recently, I was asked recently, you know, like what. You know, how would you describe yourself before you started PR. And I was like, well, well maybe wealthier guys. I guess you like. I mean, not really, but like, you know, like in a way, like, yeah, it is it's not the wisest career move, you know, to start a nonprofit, especially one without, a discernible funding source.
00:18:35:13 - 00:18:52:23
Tony Jordan
You know, the first year I think we had $7,000 in revenue, and most of that was from me. But but now we have staff. I get paid something. And we just hired an admin, and we have, you know, down here, I guess, as a policy director, and we're starting to get grants. And so it's really, it's really every year it's grown.
00:18:52:23 - 00:19:06:14
Tony Jordan
And I think that there's we've kind of shown that this is, you know, a legitimate policy area. And I think that's, that's what, like for organizing efforts and this kind of thing. And, and I think that's, it's what we needed to do.
00:19:06:17 - 00:19:16:01
John Simmerman
Yeah. And and if I got the timeline right, so essentially it was 2019 and then beyond. So it is relatively new. We're, we're talking about yeah.
00:19:16:01 - 00:19:18:00
Tony Jordan
We launched like I like to say did it.
00:19:18:02 - 00:19:39:20
John Simmerman
Right before the pandemic. Great timing. Yeah I think it in some ways it kind of was great timing because a lot of people had a lot of extra time to to like, really nerd out about stuff. And I know that, that, you know, with Don, I mean, his, his level, the, the acceptance, like you said, you discovered it five years after publication.
00:19:39:20 - 00:20:16:11
John Simmerman
And he mentions that in the episode that I had with him. Is that. Yeah, it it was a slow burn. And then it really kind of took off. And then you mentioned strong towns and of course, seeing you, he, he gave the keynote a few years ago at seeing you. And it really the that, that a level of awareness in the connecting of the dots of the need for this type of reform, just like land use reform and how it all comes back to, you know, creating a more livable environment, a more walkable and bikeable environment.
00:20:16:16 - 00:20:43:28
John Simmerman
And, and there's the connection to active towns and, and the work that I've been doing is because, yes, if we can create much more walkable and bikeable communities, we're going to have that likelihood of being able to encourage more people to choose alternate modes than getting into a single occupancy vehicle and driving everywhere for everything. And so sometimes you know, folks don't really see what why are you talking about parking reform, and why does it keep coming up in all your discussions?
00:20:44:04 - 00:20:47:21
John Simmerman
It's like because it's it's very much interrelated.
00:20:47:23 - 00:21:15:09
Tony Jordan
Yeah. It's like a it's a, it's a core especially. I mean, and some parts of it are even more relevant than others, the zoning. Right. The, the, the zoning laws, particularly around housing, is really that's taken off partly because of the housing crisis. Right. Obviously like that, that, that kicked that into gear. But but, I mean, you know, changing your zoning is just I often will say it's kind of like getting rid of the you have a grass, a lawn, and you want a garden.
00:21:15:09 - 00:21:30:13
Tony Jordan
You don't go throw vegetables and flowers into the lawn. The seeds, you know, you have to you have to remove you got to dig up the turf first. And that's really that's really getting rid of your mandates, is getting rid of the turf and clearing out some rocks and weeds and getting it ready. But that doesn't grow a garden.
00:21:30:13 - 00:21:49:27
Tony Jordan
You know, you have to do these other steps. I mean, you do have to up zone and do land use policies. But even on the transportation side you need to you need to manage that on street management is also really important, especially when it comes to active transportation and walkability, because the more cars on the street we know, the more dangerous they are, the more unpleasant they are.
00:21:49:29 - 00:22:08:20
Tony Jordan
The just if people, once you get in the car to you're, you're not likely to switch to a more active mode for part of your trip. You know, once you once once you've switched into car, you're going as close as you can to where where you where you're going in the car. And and so I think it definitely is a, it's a core piece.
00:22:08:22 - 00:22:32:25
Tony Jordan
It impacts, you know, so part of why I, you know, to go back to why I do it, I mean, I, you know, I'm an organizer and when I realize this, this does housing, transportation, climate action, public health, you know, accessibility and equity concerns, all of these things are impacted by this one weird policy area that no one's working on.
00:22:32:28 - 00:22:37:27
Tony Jordan
Like, I couldn't ask for more. You know, it's really gratifying. Yeah, yeah.
00:22:38:00 - 00:22:55:14
John Simmerman
So we've mentioned it a few times. The word superstar, has has come up a few times. So I like to define acronyms and, and in wonky terms. So, I pulled this photo up because this is a shoe piece to ride. Why don't you define who the heck these shoe pieces are?
00:22:55:20 - 00:23:11:28
Tony Jordan
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this was a when we, as I mentioned, we had Portlanders for parking reform. PD pieces.com. The website still up. We were doing, you know, local activity to just kind of I was had a blog where I was just tracking all sorts of things. I sent some graphics that we might like to like around, you know, whatever is going on.
00:23:11:28 - 00:23:33:15
Tony Jordan
This is a good picture that I sent this for a reason because this fellow, my friend Charlie, he organized the, the parking lot ride where we had a number of folks. Cole Peterson is in this picture. If you know him from the the Adu, you know, major proponent of end use. And also Katie Gould from sightline is in this picture.
00:23:33:15 - 00:23:52:22
Tony Jordan
She's in the, tank top right in front. That's the first time I met Katie was on this ride, and now she's like a major colleague in this. So this. We're on this where we're at here. Is it a parking lot? It's at a at a park that is above a parking structure. So this was a parking lot that then the city coordinated with the building.
00:23:52:22 - 00:24:14:00
Tony Jordan
Actually, that I worked in at the time was an office building. And then they they buried a bunch of parking under it and made a plaza on top. And so we were visiting a number of parking areas. And it was this was just kind of the social aspect of let's go around and like and, and make parking kind of fun, make it cool, get the people who were, who were kind of nerding out on it all together to just build a little momentum and community around it.
00:24:14:00 - 00:24:40:25
Tony Jordan
Yeah. And I and the people, I think, who show up to these events, you know, they're they're curious people because they read a blog post or they, they somehow saw something around parking and they dug in and then they they're, they're, they're active enough that they go to, like, they care enough to go to something. So when by the time you're, you're at the parking party, I feel like you've, you've cleared a few hurdles of, you know, like you're curious enough to look into a weird zoning thing.
00:24:40:27 - 00:25:00:18
Tony Jordan
You, you, you're, you're, you're, motivated enough to, to actually seek out some information. More. You're also motivated enough that you will go show up and do something. So you're that's a great group of folks to, to work with. And, and I will say, I've yet to really find too many parking people that only really care about parking.
00:25:00:18 - 00:25:15:20
Tony Jordan
Like even don't you. Right. What's way the sidewalks and land assembly and some other things, you know. And so usually these people have multifaceted situations and they're just a great group of people to work with. I love that I get to meet interesting people all the time.
00:25:15:22 - 00:25:39:29
John Simmerman
Yeah. And and this kind of speaks to a little bit of the rock star esque nature of Don, you know, the sheepdog of the fact that, you know, people were calling themselves that the shoe pieces and it is when I first heard that, I'm like, wait a minute. What what do they do? What are they doing?
00:25:40:01 - 00:25:57:18
Tony Jordan
Yeah. I mean, it's it's a it is a thing. It's like, you know, I I'll say part of, you know, it's important that we did move to a movement that is not so much a fan club, right? Like, I mean, like that was part of professionalizing the movement a little bit and making it like about, you know, the actual policy was, was important.
00:25:57:18 - 00:26:16:28
Tony Jordan
But but they're definitely the I think I was thinking about this yesterday actually. And obviously you've been thinking about Don a lot. That part of my motivation, you know, is, you know, like I think he had a way where he was so kind. He wanted you wanted to make him proud, right? So I think a lot of people, they learn from him, they, they, they, they were appreciative of that.
00:26:16:28 - 00:26:40:05
Tony Jordan
And they wanted to go on and, and and show him stuff. They think, Don, look, look what's happening in my city. Look what we did. Professor Shoop, we did this, you know, and I think that that's part of what made it, you know, work as a community is like, you know, like people. You're kind of you wanted to make him proud or seek his approval because, you know, he he changed the trajectory in your life or really changed the way you think about something.
00:26:40:05 - 00:26:57:21
Tony Jordan
And I don't know, I don't know what quality it is. Maybe, you know, maybe just that, you know, as he mentioned, he was like a late bloomer and he was an older man. And it's kind of like, you know, it's kind of like, you know, father, mentor, grandfather kind of figure. And you just want to like, you kind of I think we're motivated by, you know, we'll be right back and say, good job.
00:26:57:23 - 00:27:00:24
Tony Jordan
You know, like, I think there's a there's an aspect of that.
00:27:00:27 - 00:27:21:03
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah, yeah for sure. And what was interesting too, you know, when, when he and I were we're talking recently for that episode is that, there was also this sense two. You mentioned it right there. You know, kind of the late bloomer and and he had mentioned that. Yeah. Kind of built up and then and then really took off.
00:27:21:21 - 00:27:41:18
John Simmerman
I get the sense too, that and I mentioned it in sort of my little tribute to him is that he had such a great sense of humor, and it, it, it makes that massive book. And we didn't we kind of glazed right over the fact that it's like some 700 plus page book, and you had it in hardback and so, you know, that hardcover.
00:27:41:18 - 00:28:04:04
John Simmerman
So that would have been like a major doorstop for sure. So but, you know, one of the things that I loved and adored about the book, and he was surprised that I had listened to it because I listened to it through on audible when I was poking around the house doing landscaping or whatever. And it was just such a joy to listen to, and you wouldn't think that about that type of book.
00:28:04:04 - 00:28:32:05
John Simmerman
And so I think that that was part of and I, you know, as I mentioned, I've seen him deliver keynote presentations in person and, he just had a wry sense of humor and he would like, kind of do it. And, and part of what made that funny and entertaining and interesting is the ridiculousness of way, the way that we implemented parking requirements.
00:28:32:07 - 00:28:58:09
John Simmerman
So that's what I'm going to turn it over to you now is for those people who are like listening and they're going, okay, but what does this have to do with this? It all dates back or points back to the fact that through whatever reason, you know, whatever the original person was. And I don't know if you know this, you know who the original city was that said, okay, what we need to do is create parking minimum requirements.
00:28:58:11 - 00:29:12:26
John Simmerman
And then it just kind of got copy pasted city after city after city. But I'll tee that up and I'll and I'll take us over to some ridiculous examples of the pseudoscience that is parking minimums.
00:29:12:28 - 00:29:34:08
Tony Jordan
We'll do. Yeah. Yeah. So I think I read recently, Nolan Gray had a post yesterday, we're, you know, we're giving this interview shortly after she was passing and, that that said, I think it was like 1923. And Columbus is the first one that they identified for residential parking minimums. I think by and large, I did some research a couple years back.
00:29:34:08 - 00:29:59:21
Tony Jordan
I went to the Library of Congress and dug through a bunch of materials that are anything that had parking in the name, basically did a speedrun for, you know, through through what was there. And I think ultimately it was cars were coming and people realized that there were too many cars, especially particularly in the 40s, as the suburban movement started happening and they started saying, you know, hey, like, we need to do something about this.
00:29:59:21 - 00:30:26:27
Tony Jordan
And it was actually kind of there's a parallel in a way, to the work we're doing now where I actually found these booklets from, like the, you know, Chamber of Commerce for Indiana. And it would ban if that's exactly it, but some state and it would be like, what do you do about cars? And there would be like form a committee, get important people on the committee, identify some land that you can acquire to build a parking lot, you know, create a parking district.
00:30:27:12 - 00:30:50:21
Tony Jordan
And then it would be like, you know, there would be a bunch of even there were some interesting things from the 40s where they were saying, you know, you should potentially price higher rates when there's more like take some of the some of the stuff that Don put in later on 40 years later. But I think but then and then it always it and then that usually would end with and then you know, once you've got your downtown kind of figured out where your main street is, everything else should have a parking mandate from here.
00:30:50:21 - 00:31:14:09
Tony Jordan
Like there was like the crisis was how do we deal with our places that were already built and accommodating the cars? And the solution? There was for smarter places was don't tear everything down, just tear some of it down and build some central parking in the downtown. But then they were like, from here on out, yeah, you got to build a bunch of parking and and I think that, that the, you know, there was some copy going on, but they would make these parking ratings for kind of any land use.
00:31:14:13 - 00:31:40:10
Tony Jordan
And so here's an example. Yes. This is from the I gave a talk in Dallas. The other day. And and this is like you can go I you know to I I'll look at like 20 to 25 cities around an area. So this is around Dallas and invariably with a survey of about 25 cities, you will find between two and effectively 7 to 10 parking spaces required for a bowling alley, a lane and a bowling alley.
00:31:40:10 - 00:32:00:10
Tony Jordan
Right. Like it's just such a spread. Or a I think it was like a 4 to 9 split is an actual bowling thing. Like, I've been trying to be work that in like, you know, like like why? And I'll say why. Like what? These are clearly based on what most likely occurred was there was a bowling alley in prosper that had three or somewhere nearby.
00:32:00:10 - 00:32:17:14
Tony Jordan
They had three parking spaces per lane or somewhere, and that was that. Consultant wrote that in their book, and then prosper hired them to do their zoning code. And that's what they got, where Hutchins got someone that had six per lane, or there was sometimes a place in town. So I think usually what happened is, you know, someone come and say, I want to start this business.
00:32:17:14 - 00:32:33:23
Tony Jordan
And they would go, or they were we needed a zoning code. And they just look around and say, okay, this is how much is there? And then that got all transferred into code. There's a slide we have where it shows, you know, the planner in 1954 where they say, you know, we don't know why this are banks.
00:32:33:23 - 00:32:51:29
Tony Jordan
This one I was just showing it's a spread between, you know, 200 like these small increments per square foot, you know, and, and and once again, the same thing is here. And so I'll say here, you know, you would think that they were guessing and using bird guts, and that would be funny, except it's true. And it led to big problems.
00:32:51:29 - 00:33:19:15
Tony Jordan
So this this planning advisory service slides, you know, like the guy says, or woman, the planner from 1954 says, we we don't know where there's no no one can agree on how much parking should be a shopping center. We just guess and invariably it's too much or too little. Maybe I didn't include that slide, but there's we have a cut out that we use and it's like and and and so they really they were guessing and then it got put into code and then it became a self-reinforcing thing.
00:33:19:15 - 00:33:55:15
Tony Jordan
So to the point that then years later when the it this is the book that Don really, you know, destroys in his book which they still sell. But this is a international institute for traffic engineers, you know, parking generation book where by the time they're compiling that, and, you know, later on, which, you know, a lot of people think that's where the numbers came from, but they couldn't have come from there because that book didn't come out until, like, I think the maybe late 70s or early 80s, you know, like they're counting up how many parking spaces are at places that were defined by parking mandates, and then other people are copying them.
00:33:55:15 - 00:34:14:27
Tony Jordan
So it really became like a, you know, just, you know, slow rolling. But I do love all these small minor like you get you can look at the zoning code and find Dallas has 220 different parking requirements. Right. And like they're all over the place. Oh yeah. There's the planning advisory one. So yeah. Guess the number of stalls and it's either too many or not enough.
00:34:14:27 - 00:34:38:24
Tony Jordan
Right. That's how that's how it happened. They're telling you right there 1954. And so you end up with like there are literally, the, the humor in this is, is is apparent. Right. Haunted house Gilbert, Arizona, one for 100ftยฒ. You know. Yeah. How did the ghosts get to the haunted house? Well, I covered this one I found just last year, like one per eight occupants.
00:34:38:24 - 00:34:51:27
Tony Jordan
And you look at the other thing. It's crazy. If you look at these land uses, you can look on Google Maps and like, no one, no one's building parking at a cemetery. Actually, no one's building new cemeteries. Like it's not a thing that really happens. Drive in movie theaters like, it's like.
00:34:51:27 - 00:34:56:00
John Simmerman
But when you got the parking, you've got one per occupant there at the cemetery. Yeah. That's good.
00:34:56:01 - 00:35:12:15
Tony Jordan
We have one per eight occupants. I mean, they they're compact, right? They fit in those little boxes in the back of the truck. So I had to make a whole new slide for this one because Dallas had such crazy stuff. And you can see wax museums drive in movie theaters. One I've seen that in North Carolina in other places blows my mind.
00:35:12:15 - 00:35:33:02
Tony Jordan
Like, why do you need that? My favorite joke, though, is, you know, and I agree, Don had, you know, you make you need to make this funny. And I started to say, this is the laugh now part of my presentation. And then there's a cry later. Helicopters. Okay, I first saw this in a little place called Woodberry, Georgia, which is like a very small town.
00:35:33:02 - 00:35:55:06
Tony Jordan
It's got nothing. No one's flying a helicopter there. And they did. They landed on the Walmart parking lot or whatever, but they, they had two parking uses for helicopter parking. But Dallas has three helicopter base heliport. And these are all different. You can see their different different requirements and helicopters. And what is the difference? Like hell, if anyone knows.
00:35:55:06 - 00:36:20:13
Tony Jordan
Right. Like, literally like what insanity is this? That you would have this level of precision or, you know, around a parking, car parking mandate. So I think, like, it's funny and and that's part of what I mean, I've been doing this for a while now, a couple of years of really looking at these. I have hundreds of cities I've looked at, and I still find things I would just would never think like.
00:36:20:15 - 00:36:32:17
Tony Jordan
It blows my mind every time. It's a, it's like an, the never ending supply. Yeah. Yeah. So there he is again. But the three steps.
00:36:32:20 - 00:36:55:24
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And the and the again, the the graphic on the screen here for the benefit of, our listening only audience is, is. Yeah. Parking reform 101, the three steps. The three, you know, steps to better cities from from, professor, shoot is eliminate parking mandates, price the curb for 85% occupancy, meaning you're getting constant turnover.
00:36:55:26 - 00:37:16:08
John Simmerman
So always about 15% open. And and with now with technology of being able to do dynamic curbside parking rates and being able to adjust things to be able to do this, it's not like the old days when you'd be okay. Well, it looks like we have to go, you know, reprogram the old fashioned, you know, parking meters.
00:37:16:08 - 00:37:42:11
John Simmerman
It's like you've got dynamic, the ability to do dynamic pricing much more readily and and streamline. And then, of course, the one of the key things is use that money that you collect from parking, right back in that neighborhood on that block in that district and, and help reduce car dependency because you're really bringing the city around.
00:37:42:11 - 00:38:05:23
John Simmerman
And, you know, obviously, Pasadena, California is a wonderful, you know, case study and, and, example, I used to work right on Colorado Boulevard there and, back in the early 90s, and it was basically ugly, you know, it was you know, it still still had most of the 1970s, stuff where they were ready just to tear everything down and burn it up.
00:38:05:23 - 00:38:16:03
John Simmerman
It was just like, yeah, no, no, it's, but now it's it's amazing to see how that money got put back to, to use. And so yeah, the three steps right there.
00:38:16:04 - 00:38:46:10
Tony Jordan
Yeah. And and and yeah I think he started calling that local revenue return or parking benefit districts. That concept and and it is really the one thing I've learned is, you know, you're it is really important to to do that because if your city gets hooked on that money, right. For non for purposes of long term staffing, for example, then you can imagine if your city wants that parking money like then how does that conflict with a goal to reduce VMT.
00:38:46:13 - 00:39:07:02
Tony Jordan
Right. Or you know drive vehicle miles traveled or to, to reduce drive alone trips. And so I think like that, that that's why I put in there. If you're spending that money, you increase mobility from other modes. Then when you run out of it because people aren't parking anymore, well then, hey, you know, like you, the problem is solved.
00:39:07:03 - 00:39:12:11
Tony Jordan
You've completed your mission, you know, like, and you don't need the money anymore because it's done its job.
00:39:12:13 - 00:39:37:23
John Simmerman
Yeah. So we've talked about what we need to reform. We need to get rid of or, you know, significantly change these mandates, especially the parking minimum mandates, that we've just talked about being pseudoscience and just sort of made up. And that's exactly what cities are doing now, is they are going through and starting to relook at this.
00:39:37:29 - 00:39:58:13
John Simmerman
And that's part of what you all are doing as an organization is you're keeping track of this stuff. And so you've got, you know, you're a map of the parking, reform network map here of, of cities that are getting rid of parking, which is pretty, pretty cool.
00:39:58:15 - 00:40:15:29
Tony Jordan
And getting, I mean, so we we've been we started this, this was a project that Strong Towns kind of had started years ago, where they had a Google form where people can submit these things. And when I one of my frustrations was I would look at that map and wonder where the, you know, who'd validated it. There would be weird things in there.
00:40:15:29 - 00:40:40:24
Tony Jordan
It wasn't complete. And so we early on as an organization, Patrick Sigmon, I one of our advisory board members, suggested we we take this on and we've been doing this now for a number of years. We actually, we had we done some technical improvements on this map thanks to Pew Charitable Trust giving us a grant. And we've really started to hone in on, you know, the cities that are doing the major, the big reform, getting rid of your parking mandates everywhere.
00:40:40:24 - 00:41:01:06
Tony Jordan
And there's at least 82 in the United States. It's not comprehensive. Around the world, there's places that may not have ever had parking mandates. Who knows? But yeah, having this, this thing this way to track it. I often I've been saying lately, you know, parking for our network. We want to instigate people to do reforms. And we do that by educating them and sharing information about how stupid the mandates are and how damaging they are.
00:41:01:12 - 00:41:20:22
Tony Jordan
Then we support the people, the local organizations and advocates. We don't go in and try and run a campaign anywhere locally. We, you know, we want to support them, though, with information like this map or our Parking benefit District guidebook or other things. And then we want to promote the successes and even the failures, but we want to promote the people doing the work.
00:41:20:22 - 00:41:44:24
Tony Jordan
And this is a big way to chart the movement and the progress. And in fact, this isn't even tell the whole story, because there are thousands and thousands of cities, hundreds that have done more modern, you know, Tod type reforms or affordability ones. But the fact is, is that almost every city recognized, I mean, not almost every probably, but many, many cities recognize that having parking mandates everywhere in your city is a recipe for disaster.
00:41:44:24 - 00:42:04:07
Tony Jordan
And so they make thousands of cities have parts of their city that maybe never had parking it or, you know, removed them at it early on. And their zoning point in recognition of, well, we're going to have no downtown left if we don't, you know, remove these parking mandates. And so, yeah, it's a this is a great resource.
00:42:04:18 - 00:42:23:17
Tony Jordan
And we're about to, start adding part of the work that we did with Pew was to work on the back end, and we we're we're going to start tracking parking benefit districts and on street reforms. Right. Those other those other reforms, those other parts of it. Yeah, we can talk about those and see where they are and get it.
00:42:23:18 - 00:42:42:10
Tony Jordan
And also just show that this should all be together where, you know, and then maybe at some point we'll have, you know, the new map will be 100 cities have gotten rid of their mandates, implemented performance pricing, and have parking benefit districts. Right. And then that will then will really the the movement is going, you know, like it's like this is just this really is just step one.
00:42:42:12 - 00:42:45:18
Tony Jordan
You know, there's a there's a lot of work to, to keep doing.
00:42:45:20 - 00:43:08:03
John Simmerman
Yeah. So this is just looking at the mandate for parking minimums. Of course. I zoomed in on Austin, which is where I'm located here. And, delighted that our city council has, has, has passed that and got that in place. Don and I did have a chance to chat a little bit about there's a long history of, the parking benefit districts like in South Congress.
00:43:08:03 - 00:43:27:25
John Simmerman
And so, there was definitely a, you know, a bit of progressiveness of the city to, you know, kind of get away from that concept of a free parking and embracing and understanding the high cost of free parking. But it's super cool. And then again, you were just up in Dallas, and so you were diving into that.
00:43:27:25 - 00:43:36:24
John Simmerman
And. Yeah, wonderful to hear that. They're at least curious enough. Somebody up there is curious enough to to to want to consider it.
00:43:36:27 - 00:43:52:06
Tony Jordan
It's been going on for years. I mean, they had Donald went there years back for a talk. I was there a couple years ago. I mean, I think that it looks like they have a vote, I think, today on their planning commission, and I suspect they're not going to they're not going to propose a full repeal as much as we told them to.
00:43:52:12 - 00:44:16:06
Tony Jordan
But, they're going to you know, I often will say, like, you know, it's kind of like cigarets if you're smoking packs a day and then you tell your doctor, you know, I'm going to cut back to one pack, okay. That's good. You know, you should go all the way, but I support it. Dallas right now is smoking ten packs a day, and I think they're going to cut back significantly to just a couple cigarets or maybe you know, and so I think that that's it's it's cool to see the progress.
00:44:16:06 - 00:44:39:13
Tony Jordan
And we're going to you know there's statewide bills to that are really that's where some real action is. Across the country. I think this year we're likely to see, you know, probably a maybe as many as ten, significant statewide parking reform bills. I don't know what will pass. You never do. But just the fact that these are getting introduced at a higher rate and they're coming from Riverkeeper talking about water quality.
00:44:39:18 - 00:45:00:01
Tony Jordan
They're coming from, you know, commercial angle for business development. They're coming from Yimby's. They're coming like they're coming from a lot of different, viewpoints. And I think that's really a healthy thing about this movement is it does have the ability to attract a coalition of diverse interests, to, to to do the work in.
00:45:00:01 - 00:45:22:21
John Simmerman
And what I love about this, too, is, is that it doesn't just have to get, you know, pigeonholed into a culture war type of issue. When I look at this, I'm, I'm, you know, from a nonpartizan perspective, it it actually makes so much sense, especially from, like, if you're in a state where there's like high property rights etc..
00:45:22:24 - 00:45:50:03
John Simmerman
Well, why would you want like the man, the government saying, well, you have to build this number of parking, you know, parking spaces, you know, for, for your business. And it's like or even your home, you know, and all these parking requirements. I mean, this is something that would resonate, across the political spectrum. And, this particular, page that we have here on your website is your getting started.
00:45:50:10 - 00:46:00:28
John Simmerman
So walk us through. So somebody tuned into this, they're they're watching this or listening to this and they're like very curious. How do they get involved? How do they get started.
00:46:01:00 - 00:46:20:03
Tony Jordan
Yeah I mean I think now a days I would say, you know, make sure you know what you're talking about a little bit, learn the issue. I mean, I think one key thing you mentioned across, you know, like what is this should be nonpartisan issue really. You know, first, what are we talking about? You know, we're talking about initially, we're not talking about forcing anyone to change how they live.
00:46:20:03 - 00:46:40:09
Tony Jordan
Right? I like to say the built environment is if you like to drive, you're lucky, because that's what 99% of the world is built for right now in this country. And you can keep doing that. Rest assured, for a long time, we're really talking about just removing these mandates initially and letting people who have different preferences or needs be accommodated.
00:46:40:11 - 00:46:56:15
Tony Jordan
Right. Have have they can can someone can someone build a home for someone who doesn't want a car? I mean, you should be able to. That's a risk. That's a decision between the person with the money putting up the risk or the land and and let them do this. And then so I think like that's one thing is just make sure we know what we're talking about.
00:46:56:15 - 00:47:14:23
Tony Jordan
And then I would say, you know, there's so many groups we should this page, you know, like, I mean I would I would say if you're local, you should find your local conversation or you should look up your local Nimby group or your transportation group, whatever. Whatever the interest is. I mean, that's the key is like, why what what do you care about?
00:47:14:23 - 00:47:33:13
Tony Jordan
If you care about the environment, then you would want to go, you know, maybe meet up with your environmental group and talk to them like, hey, do you know water quality heat islands? You know, if public health is your issue, heat islands is a thing or access walking across, you know, like, you know, access for people with disabilities or people on transit.
00:47:33:16 - 00:47:51:18
Tony Jordan
So I think I think the key is almost whatever you're interested, if you're interested in in livability and quality of life issues for people in cities and not even in cities, you know, any town or whatever, this is an issue that actually does impact what you're working on. And so I would say you want to learn a little bit more about it.
00:47:51:18 - 00:48:11:22
Tony Jordan
Get on our mailing list, reach out to your local groups and start just unwinding that, you know, get hooked, put those glasses on and see the the parking spaces around you are money wasting things. You know, the parking lots around you used to have. Generally, if you're especially if you're inside a city, used to have something better there, right.
00:48:11:23 - 00:48:31:11
Tony Jordan
Used to have a building, you know, like and then imagine what's going to be in the parking lots and the parking spaces in the future if we can actually change, just provide better options, not force anyone to do anything. But we know that most people actually like those quaint, walkable or or even lively, lively, quaint, whatever it is.
00:48:31:11 - 00:48:56:18
Tony Jordan
Like those those places where you don't have to be driving from space to base. It's it's that shouldn't be a political thing, right? Like, you know, people enjoy that. That's Disneyland. Like, what's more American than Main Street, Disneyland or, you know, like or the main street in a rural town and, you know, I do think if you, if you provide those options, not everyone has to live there.
00:48:57:02 - 00:49:18:27
Tony Jordan
There's still plenty of suburbia for people to live in, and it's still getting built. But is it possible that maybe even in the suburbs, maybe there's a corner store that your kids can go to? You know, maybe there's maybe you don't have to, you know, drive to a salon to get your haircut because there's someone down the street like my grandmother in in Chicago, Indiana, had a salon in her basement, right.
00:49:18:27 - 00:49:40:23
Tony Jordan
Like. And that would be illegal in most of the country to have, you know, one, 1 or 2 hair drying things and a and a sink, and you cut hair to make, you know, to supplementary income, you know, like, that's I think we can easily get back to that. And I think actually people would appreciate that if, if, if given the opportunity to, to see that experimentation.
00:49:40:25 - 00:50:08:24
John Simmerman
And that's a good example that you just gave there of where land use code reform is, is matching up with parking reform codes. So. Right. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So you are a nonprofit and so, you also are giving folks the opportunity to join the movement. And, and you do have a page here, join the parking Reform Network.
00:50:08:27 - 00:50:11:23
John Simmerman
Talk a little bit about what that means to join.
00:50:11:25 - 00:50:33:14
Tony Jordan
Right. It's a it's a little bit I know it's confusing sometimes to people where it's, you know, because because we're a nonprofit and so we run, you know, we have one grant and that, but we also most of our activities are funded by individual donors. And so the concept here is, we have a sliding scale membership and it's really just signaling support.
00:50:33:14 - 00:50:49:25
Tony Jordan
We also have an option for people who are activists or students or don't have, you know, you know, if you're working on parking reform and you want to be in our community, I want you there, right? Like, it's not it's not about but but if you if you have the means, you donate and we'll send you a form to become a member.
00:50:49:25 - 00:51:08:11
Tony Jordan
The main benefits are, you know, access to the community through the slack. We're increasingly adding more member. We have events, we have orientations, we're doing our. And most of these are public. But over time, as they grow in popularity, you know, when we start to when we run out of space in a webinar, the members are going to get their first preference.
00:51:08:11 - 00:51:33:11
Tony Jordan
Or if you want to have a consultation session with, you know, myself or Daniel Harris or someone else in the organization, you know, like, that's we're moving towards a model where, you know, like our time is more, you know, in demand. And so that will be, you know, members have access to that. But ultimately, that community, people post things in the slack and, or we, we connect people to one another because the network is really the key here, right?
00:51:33:11 - 00:51:52:05
Tony Jordan
It's it's a networking of people across the place. And so, so when, when people are working on statewide bills, we, we have an organizing roundtable with partner organizations. And, you know, they're all those I mentioned, those 8 to 10 states, you know, they're in their training notes, even to the extent that, you know, they're copying each other's bill name.
00:51:52:12 - 00:52:19:20
Tony Jordan
You know, it's not all people over parking act anymore. And like, so like, yeah, that's that's I don't know. It's not I'm not the best sell on the, the the network membership because it's just like I, we're so open. We're so willing to share the information anyway. You know it's really like you're not. It's more like if you're into parking reform, if you want to honor the legacy of Shoup, or if you want to see this movement go forward, it's a great way to show that support and get involved, you know, and and be tied in.
00:52:19:20 - 00:52:22:13
Tony Jordan
So that's that's my pitch.
00:52:22:15 - 00:52:43:12
John Simmerman
Fantastic work. Fantastic. And to close this out, I'm going to, head over to your upcoming upcoming events that you have coming up here real soon. You know, who is the typical member and who is the typical person who would come to an event or log in to an event? Who would you say is who are these two pieces?
00:52:43:15 - 00:53:12:11
Tony Jordan
They it's, I mean, I am kind of a bit. We're all it's, you know, academics, activists, practitioners, politicians. We have quite a number of elected officials, appointed officials. So I'll say policymakers, general randos. Right? I mean, like the people who get on this issue are, you know, journalists. So so it are it depending on the webinar and we try and have, we try to have content that both appeals to like the one you just showed was on the screen.
00:53:12:11 - 00:53:35:01
Tony Jordan
There was a, webinar it's happening right now with and change from our board member talking about a tool called Green Trip. Right. So that's a more technical one. We'll have interviews with authors like Wesley Marshall or, you know, Sarah Brown in, you know, we have we, we have webinars where students are sharing their thesis or their research.
00:53:35:01 - 00:53:52:28
Tony Jordan
So kind of just trying to have a broad, broad array. So, I mean, I like parking reform. With Katie. Goodnight. She's been saying, you know, around, you know, parking reform is for everyone, like in the idea that you should it shouldn't just be in a big town or, you know, like it's not big towns, small towns, it's rural areas.
00:53:52:28 - 00:54:13:26
Tony Jordan
It's for everyone. And I think that also can apply to just people like, you know, it can be anyone who cares about their city and how it works. From anything from fiscal, you know, do you have money for infrastructure and services to, you know, you know, is this is the government telling you what to do? There's a wide range of issues in there.
00:54:13:26 - 00:54:44:15
Tony Jordan
And, and, and, and hopefully we get them all in a, in one of our events, you know, and, and, and I also think it's, common ground to I do think that as ironic as it is that, you know, parking is contentious, right? Like people fight over it and and literally physically fight. But when it comes to people who recognize the impact of these policies on their issue areas, it actually, I was on a stage with Chuck Marone and Ilhan Omar, you know, like it's like, you know, like it's a it bridges, a divide.
00:54:44:15 - 00:54:50:25
Tony Jordan
And I think that it is a common ground, especially in these times where maybe people can, can kind of work together.
00:54:50:28 - 00:55:39:00
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. Very well said. And, to close this out or go to this, wonderful image that you sent, threw a great shot of you and Dawn, a wonderful tribute to his life. I know that, you know, his legacy will live on. And the fact that the UN is up and running is thriving is is really, you know, getting this message out in a formalized manner and making it, it really something that, you know, people who understand this and start to see the connections to all these other areas of livability, household affordability, but keep creating vibrant business districts, all of these things, the connectivity, walkable and bikeable places.
00:55:39:00 - 00:56:02:01
John Simmerman
I mean, it's just so cool that, this is all coming together. And this is, you know, congratulations to I mean, it's it's been I'm sure you must be super, super grateful and gratified to see your baby, you know, grow up to the point where you're you're now have this momentum going, and cities are adopting these things.
00:56:02:25 - 00:56:05:19
John Simmerman
And. Yeah. Congratulations.
00:56:05:22 - 00:56:23:22
Tony Jordan
Well, thanks. It is. It's a it's it's been a ride and it's still going to keep going, you know, and I think it is I'm I'm blessed to, you know, be able to, to work with the people I do and, and you know, have been able to, to meet this guy at the right time and, and get something going, you know, it's so thank you.
00:56:23:22 - 00:56:27:00
Tony Jordan
Thank you. Yeah. And I'm sure we'll see each other again soon.
00:56:27:09 - 00:56:31:02
John Simmerman
Very soon. Most likely yet another one of these conferences for sure.
00:56:31:02 - 00:56:32:14
Tony Jordan
Exactly. Yeah, yeah.
00:56:32:16 - 00:56:44:02
John Simmerman
Well, Tony, thank you so very much. I mean, I got to get you back because you've got a webinar going on right now. So you're going to pop into that. And, I really do appreciate you coming on the Active Towns podcast. Thank you so much.
00:56:44:05 - 00:56:45:10
Tony Jordan
Thank you. Thank you very much.
00:56:45:16 - 00:57:00:15
John Simmerman
Thank you all so much for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed this episode with Tony Jordan. If you did, please give it a thumbs up. Leave a comment down below and share it with a friend. And if you haven't done so already, be honored to have you subscribe to the channel. Just click on the subscription button down below and ring that notification bell.
00:57:00:18 - 00:57:23:04
John Simmerman
And once again, if you're enjoying this content here on the Active Towns Channel, please consider supporting my efforts by becoming an Active Towns Ambassador. Super easy to do. Again, just navigate over to Active towns.org, click on that support tab at the top of the page. And again there's several different options for you to consider including making a contribution to the nonprofit and becoming a Patreon supporter again.
00:57:23:04 - 00:57:43:29
John Simmerman
Every little bit adds up and is very much appreciated. Thank you so much for tuning in. And until next time, this is John signing off by wishing you much activity, health and happiness. Cheers and a huge shout out to all my active towns ambassadors supporting the channel via YouTube. Super! Thanks! Buy me a coffee! Patreon. As well as making contributions to the nonprofit.
00:57:43:29 - 00:57:47:22
John Simmerman
I could not do this without you. Thank you all so very much.