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You’re a marketer in one of the most competitive industries.
You may be tired of trying, over and over, to use the same marketing strategies that you read about online or learned about in school - but is that really going to move the needle?
We all know the big brands - Booking.com, American Airlines, The Points Guy, Royal Caribbean, Marriott, VRBO, and Hertz... but what about the emerging brands that have found their path to scale?
The Travel Marketing Podcast is about sitting down with successful marketing professionals in the travel, transportation, and tourism industry to learn what has worked for them, what they’ve learned along the way, and what new trends they’re noticing.
We are Propellic, and we’re on a mission to create more diversity in thought for the planet. We’re doing that by helping brands - specifically travel, transportation, and tourism brands - increase their reach through intelligent marketing that travels further.
On the Slopes of Innovation
Yotam Idan
This is the travel marketing podcast brought to you by Propellic, bringing you the news and insights and what's working and not working in today's competitive transportation and tourism landscape from emerging brands to the most established professionals. These lessons of intelligent marketing will help your marketing plan travel further.
Brennen Bliss: Hey, everybody, Brennen here from Propellic. I'm really excited for this episode today. I got the opportunity to speak with Yotam Idan, he lives in Israel so obviously, just regardless of anybody on either side of that conflict, safety and security is of utmost top of mind right now. So I'm hoping and wishing for his safety there.
I'm recording this intro a couple of weeks after we recorded the initial podcast and in between those two events, the conflict in Israel and Palestine began, but in any case, I'm hoping for his safety, on top of that the podcast today it's a great exploration and a deep dive into his organization, WeSki, I personally am a huge skier so much so that, like, the conference I'm most excited for next year is mountain travel symposium MTS and we're super excited because we're going to be attending and sponsoring that and hopefully have the opportunity to see Yotam there.
But WeSki, they recently won a big Phocuswright award for innovation. They're really just a one stop shop for skiers and snowboarders, they have the most advanced user experience in the travel industry for that industry. They're combining all of these products across spaces, whether it's insurance and hotels, lift tickets, etcetera.
It's a lot of moving parts all brought into this one seamless platform. It's for everybody from seasoned skiers to beginners, it's great for groups and really it just brings fun and simplicity to the ski booking process, which is not something that most get the opportunity to say about that process.
I'm actually booking a ski trip right now using WeSki so I'm experiencing the benefits of using the platform. So stay tuned. Learn more about Yotam’s journey and the innovative approach of WeSki.
Hey, I'm super excited to have Yotam with us today. Yotam, how's it going?
Yotam Idan: All good. All good. How are you guys?
Brennen Bliss: I am good. How have you been since Phocuswright Barcelona?
Yotam Idan: Wow. Lots of things are happening. It's really like a fun time to be at WeSki. The team a lot now and kind of preparing for next winter with a lot of good new surprises coming up.
Brennen Bliss: As an avid skier, I personally have been looking forward to this one and I'm super excited to dive in because this is one of my passions and one of the things I love most. If you could find me anywhere during the months of December to April, you will likely find me on a mountain if you're looking. So if you can't get a hold of me, just go look at mountains and you'll probably find me.
So I'm excited to dive into WeSki. What was the award that you won at Phocuswright? What was the award called?
Yotam Idan: The award was the Launch Innovation. What was it? People's choice was very fun to be back on stage. I think I haven't been pitching on stages from pre COVID time. So it's kind of fun to be in front of people and tell the story of WeSki and get chosen to win the competition is always best.
Brennen Bliss: I want to dive into it because it's such an interesting approach to the market. You know, skiing is, as you've mentioned, I've heard you mention, it's a very antiquated, very long, lot of steps involved to booking. What inspired you to start WeSki and how did you find that gap?
Yotam Idan: Yeah. So I, like you, I'm an avid skier, turned to a snowboarder along the way, but every year planning those trips with my friends, with my family would take hours and hours of researching where to go, how to book it, coordinating with all the group, splitting the payments, chasing after my friends for, you know, for their answers and for their commitment.
And I luckily met David, my co-founder during studies in a entrepreneurship program called Zelle. We had to find ideas or problems that we're going to focus on. And we're both skiers. We both know this problem very well. We actually love skiing. We hate booking it. And I think that's what started it, right?
It's a personal need that we had. We didn't know how big it was once we started, you know, it was seven years ago. And today we definitely see how big the opportunity is, especially. How skiers love our product and they definitely resonate with a lot of people when I tell them why we're doing it. A lot of people, other skiers and snowboarders feel the same pain of how hard it is to book it.
Brennen Bliss: What would you say is the hardest part of, I mean, there's lift tickets. Obviously there's B&B or hotel, there's flights, is it rentals? Like what's the hardest thing to book? I
Yotam Idan: I don't think it's a one specific product that will be the artist. I think we ask a lot of our customers all the time. What's the artist saying or why choose with us?
And it's eventually to combine it together into one best package. Right. And that's what's hard, like making sure that everything works together with the transfers, with the flights, the hotel that's located on the slopes as you want it. Finding the resorts and eventually making a package, calculating the price of this package, splitting it to a per person price.
So you can literally split it with your friends. Uh, we really look into that dynamic packaging piece. That's what solves that problem for our users.
Brennen Bliss: That's the interesting thing I want to dive a bit into. So if you were to describe in a couple of sentences what WeSki does, how would you capture that and share it with somebody?
Yotam Idan: Yeah, the easiest way to say it is WeSki is literally the one stop shop to book your complete ski vacation. And we literally focus on all the elements you need, so flights, transfers, accommodations, ski lift pass, ski equipment, lessons, and even insurance. That's the seven products we see as a necessary one place very easy to use website.
Brennen Bliss: Got it. And the insurance, is it like just a travel insurance or is it ski specific insurance?
Yotam Idan: It's ski specific insurance. Usually when you do those travel insurances, you've got to find the right insurance that covers your ski accidents or whatever happens. You want to have those insurances.
I got injured a few times while snowboarding. It's good. It's good to have it.
Brennen Bliss: That is a hundred percent your fault because you chose to go snowboarding. Come on.
Yotam Idan: You gotta admit that's a cool…
Brennen Bliss: No, snowboarding is like falling without a break. Like, I don't have any interest in it. I'm sorry to everybody who I've offended. I'm a skier.
Yotam Idan: That's not fun, falling with snowboard.
Brennen Bliss: No, uh uh. You just fade, you just start tumbling. So, I just saw, like, a couple days ago, not necessarily to when this is published, but to when we're recording it. Y'all were nominated for the Skift idea awards, which I'll be at skip. We were just talking about it right before the podcast.
You may be going, can you tell me a little bit about how just the innovative approach to the product, and then also anything you've done specifically in the marketing front has, has likely contributed to this recognition.
Yotam Idan: Yeah. So I think, you know, the Skift idea award, we took this sector called, uh, problem solvers and travel technology, and we were nominated together.
With Expedia and Skyscanner and three other very good startups. And our approach is really about using technology to solve the problem of booking a ski trip, and we use a specific, a solution called dynamic packaging that nobody really, really used it well in the travel industry in recent years. And we innovated on that piece, like, how do you make dynamic packaging really work?
How do you make it, although it's seven different products in one funnel, which is a lot of choice for the customers to make. So how do you make it easy? And how do you really create value to your users with this technology? And, and for us, it's all about leveraging the best suppliers, finding the best key suppliers, really like going into those key resorts and understanding the needs of our customers.
And combining it on the sound, in the best way. So that's from a product perspective. That's from a technology perspective, the other flips. I saw the flip side that the marketing side of it is more about, again, how do you use your technology to communicate well with the marketing platforms that you're working with, and if it's Google or Facebook, TikTok, whatever it is.
There's a lot of technology involved and a lot of data involved to make your campaigns work better and your performance work better in terms of acquisition.
Brennen Bliss: Let's talk about that because based on my limited research with the help of my fantastic Brand Marketing Manager, we see that your history before this was data and analytics, right?
How does that play into your analysis of marketing decisions, for instance?
Yotam Idan: Yeah, I'm very much into data and I started my career as a DBA database administrator for 10 years. I was building data analytics platforms and BI in different banks and credit card companies, a lot of different companies, as well as the army and you know, that's an approach I have in everything we do and every decision we take, we try to get as much data as possible to make the best decision we can, uh, specifically on marketing. I think today's marketing or today's marketers have to be data driven people. They have to know data, or they have to have some kind of a Data Analyst that works with them to just enable them to see the data in real time, model all the spend that they're doing.
And that's what we do with WeSki. We're building a lot of custom made models. Always monitor our span, always monitor our campaigns and kind of try to maybe forecast on the first day of your span, how this campaign is going to look like.
Brennen Bliss: So that's in house tools that you've built essentially?
Yotam Idan: Yep. We were working a lot on that side. I think it's very specific to each company, so it's very hard to get an off the shelf product and make it work for your startup or your own company. Cause you know, each company has a different funnel and different platforms and different ways to look at their marketing spend and lifetime value and return on ad spend.
So there's a lot of metrics that you need to customize to your needs. And usually it's good to build it in house. At least at the first few days, you know.
Brennen Bliss: I mean, leave it to a data nerd to say that, right. I mean, so you're modeling…
Yotam Idan: I think like most of the data, I'm still going into it. Although I don't have any time, but…
Brennen Bliss: You end up saving the five to 20,000 that you spend testing a campaign before it's actually productive, right?
Which when you're dealing with runway as a startup, that's an important thing to be doing. It sounds like you're doing some paid media. You're doing PPC.
Yotam Idan: Yeah, we're doing PPC, we're doing Facebook, It's You, Instagram.
Brennen Bliss: Let's talk about PPC because obviously at Propellic we deal with search engine ranking pages, SEO.
When speaking specifically in terms of PPC, what role does that play in your overall marketing strategy, like the people who know and are ready to book compared to people who are more on, for instance, meta Facebook, Instagram, and just seeing a picture of skiing, where do you focus? Is it people that are at the bottom of the funnel, ready to book, or is it people that are middle funnel, top of funnel kind of like in the dreaming phase?
Yotam Idan: Yeah, I think it's another question of stages of companies and where you're at and you're in your growth stage and your company stage. We had to start with the I intend people and the high intent people for skiing are definitely searching for features, right? So they're literally searching ski trips and that online and many different keywords that helps them find what they need.
Every customer has some different angle to what they're searching for so Google became a very strong channel for us from an awareness point of view. You're trying to be there. On the customer journey and trying to be there in all touch points. So we need to fight and to give them the feeling that you're there throughout their oral booking journey, which sometimes takes a few weeks, even a few months and the beginning of season, you know, people take the time.
If I'm today about to book a ski trip for March with some friend, and I know that I have eight months until this trip. I will definitely take the time, ask a lot more questions, you know, look at some trips, send it to my friends, think about it, compare a lot of different websites. And it's a lot about comparing a lot of things.
That's how people book travel always. And we try to be there on their journey as much as we can, but in a profitable way to remind them about their trips that they looked at with us and help them take the decision and eventually come to WeSki to book their trips. So a very interesting, very complex customer journey. And there's a lot of data points you need to connect to be able to look at those journeys and understand what works, what doesn't work.
Brennen Bliss: So I imagine retargeting is a big part of the strategy for that reason, because you're trying to keep in touch with the people who have already visited and gotten an impression so you can actually earn the booking later on.
Yotam Idan: That’s it.
Brennen Bliss: So that’s the PPC part. How do you think about an involved SEO and what you're doing?
Yotam Idan: Yeah. So SEO was always kind of, it was there in the back crowd for us. We never really
touched it until a year ago, I think for us, it was something that it was hard to believe that it works, but it's kind of a story that as you say.
You know, maybe it will work, maybe it won't, it takes a lot of time. Lucky for us, we started doing a lot of work a year ago and started to see very fast results from SEO from the first days that we started really working on it. So I definitely believe in SEO as a big channel for us. I mean, it's the same as PPC without the paid part of it.
Brennen Bliss: Or at least it's less expensive generally.
Yotam Idan: But you do need to measure other metrics there, and there's a lot of metrics like time to market and investment over time that you need to also, I mean, for me as a CEO, it's always about taking the right decisions in terms of strategy and investment in time. So, is it the right approach for us at this time?
And it was always a question. And today we really invest a lot of it on it and see a lot of potential on SEO, specifically at skiing and travel. There's a lot of topics to write about. There's a lot of, you know, there's a long tail of things that people look before they book their trips and we want to be there with the right content.
Brennen Bliss: Yeah. It's certainly one of the things that I see generally with younger companies is we need to drive value. Now we need to create the model so we can raise our next round so we can continue with our project and build the foundations we need to. And it sounds like you've gotten to a point where it actually makes sense to start driving results there, which is exciting to hear that transition in your business.
When we talk about marketing broadly and scaling out from just SEO and just PPC, what would you say is one of the most successful decisions and I guess campaigns that you run in marketing and why do you think it was successful?
Yotam Idan: Yeah, that's a good one. I mean, one of the problems with being very reliant on search is that you're following the search trend, right?
So then you've literally, you follow your bookings are really following the graph of Google, right? What you do want to do is try to get out of it. One of the amazing things we did last year is we decided to push certain campaigns and one of the most successful was the Black Friday campaign.
And we went with this campaign called F#% Black Friday. And instead of buying things, buy experiences, right? That was the messaging. That was the idea. And it was pushing people to buy things that matters to them. You know we believe, as you mentioned in the beginning, that skiing with your friends, with your families are one of the most memorable experiences.
That you can have. I remember all of the ski trips I've been to. It's been a few years since I've gone on ski trips with a lot of people in many places. But I remember all of them, and there's always those amazing memories that come back.
Brennen Bliss: I was so excited that we were going to get through one episode without an explicit tag on it, but I guess I was wrong.
All right. So the F Black Friday one worked real well for you. I love that. That's actually, I mean, for any experience based business, most travel businesses, that's an excellent idea. I absolutely love that.
Yotam Idan: We had to figure it out what Facebook allows you and what Facebook does not allow.
Brennen Bliss: So what is the takeaway? What does Facebook allow and what does Facebook not allow?
Yotam Idan: You need to write the half word. Very nice.
Brennen Bliss: The half star, star K to be created. Yeah. Alright, cool. So this is now an episode on how to get around meta's explicit filtering, I love it, we did it. We always find an interesting angle. , . Speaking of interesting angles and challenges, like dealing with Meta's restrictions on profanity.
What are some challenges otherwise that you faced in marketing and things that you've had to kind of get creative with?
Yotam Idan: I guess, you know, if you go back in time for us, the first day it was very hard because when you don't have the data, you don't know exactly what works, but don't, and you don't really, you're not sure about how to measure your funnels and why really matters more than others.
So I think in the early days, it was hard for us to understand what works and what doesn't work. And I think we lost a lot of money on the wrong campaigns that we did. Didn't know how to measure it right. Of course, there's always this learning curve. For every company, for every product to understand what matters to you.
And yeah, so that was a big challenge that we had to overcome. I mean, just time, but also a lot of learning on looking at your data, looking at your funnels, trying to understand your jobs and the sources of this traffic and why it is dropping. So there's a lot of back and forth. You got to do those back and forth.
I don't think that you can forecast what will work before you try it, but you do need to be.
And more than that, you need to be true to yourself about what works and what doesn't work. I think that's the artist's part. A lot of people, it's hard to say that it doesn't work and you need to change stuff. So you need to take your decisions sometimes and it's challenging.
Brennen Bliss: You're talking a lot about reporting and you've got this database administration background.
Where do you, what tools do you use to report? How do you get your marketing data?
Yotam Idan: Yes. You know, it's always, it's a lot of platforms that you need to work with, whether it's connecting to your marketing platforms, to your CRM, to your own product and events, and eventually you need to combine these data together.
So we use today a lot of spreadsheets actually, and a lot of tools, data from our platforms into those spreadsheets. Supermetrics is one of that. We also started working with Attribution app that helps us. Attribute a lot of the data, but I think it's not the tool as the content is the building the right reports, looking at the right data, the tools are always.
There's many tools for doing this and that thing it's always about making sure that the data you're measuring is right. Like you've got to make sure that what you're measuring is the right numbers, because if it's not, I mean, we did, it happened a few times. You're taking the seizures on the wrong number, they're not really representing what you're, what's happened.
Brennen Bliss: What numbers are the right numbers? What do you measure?
Yotam Idan: I think if you look today at marketing platforms like Facebook or whatever, it's not always accurate what you will see in these platforms compared to your real revenue, to your real conversion rate. And then you'll start looking at, okay, what's the right conversion?
Is it, who's right? And you have to go to the one source of truth that we call what's the right source of truth for that specific API was generating, where do you see revenues? And that, if you want to see revenues, so go to your finance systems and take it from there. So finance, you take it from there and then, and products, things you take from product, don't rely on just the pixels and just the platforms, because I'm not saying it's done a purpose or anything like that. And I come from data. It's not always accurate. Statistics are things that you need to navigate with. It's not really easy to know what what's real and what's not.
Brennen Bliss: So there's truth in data and the data doesn't necessarily need to come from a third party cookie. It can come directly from your platform and use that to validate what you're getting from the third party is the takeaway, right? Okay. Actually, I want to take this a different route. I think that every company that has a guarantee tends to be able to make sales more seamlessly.
I want to dive a little bit into this WeSki promise and how it plays into your marketing effort. You offer cash refunds, 100 percent financial protection. How does that work? How does it influence trust? What have you seen of the results of that WeSki Promise?
Yotam Idan: Yeah, so you know, we've been for COVID, you know, COVID played different roles in different companies in the world, specifically travel companies suffered maybe the most and specifically ski companies suffered even more because we couldn't sell.
I mean, there was no ski for us for a year and a half. And during those days you had to really strengthen the confidence with customers. Lost a lot of money with a lot of flights that were canceled, trips that they already booked, but never got money back. So we created the promise during COVID and the idea is to make sure that what you book is something that you will get at least from the company that you booked from and WeSki is here to promise you that that's our promise.
And if you can't get it because there's a pandemic and countries are closed and you cannot fly, then we will pay you back. Of course, there's a lot of different cancellation reasons. We cannot support all cancellation reasons. We are definitely protecting you from all the things that can happen from the day you booked your trip until you go on your trip.
And there are things that you need to protect customers from.
Brennen Bliss: Out of curiosity, is that a risk you assume on your balance sheet or do you insure that?
Yotam Idan: No, it's a risk. We learned to insure that way. So we literally learned a lot about how insurance works and how you mitigate risk within your balance sheet.
I don't think a lot of us try to fight insurance sometimes, but the insurance company was not, we're not, they didn't know how to deal with it. Right. Yeah. So
Brennen Bliss: that's insurance companies and their actuarial tables. I don't know. It's surprising in the travel space how little innovation there is in insurance. I think that's the reason Hopper has grown so much as they've acted as an insurance company, even though they're not technically legally an insurance company, which is a different conversation.
The regulations in the US are very different from the regulations in Europe and Israel, for instance. So I don't know exactly how it works over there, but I just know anecdotally that anytime we see a guarantee, the buyer confidence has increased so much. It's just like the mattress. You purchase a mattress, you have 365 days to test it.
Who's going to send it back? Like who's going to return their mattress, who's going to cancel their ski trip just because they want to, they want to go on the ski trip if they're booking it. There's only, it would have to be something specific that causes them to cancel it.
Yotam Idan: That's why we were also writing, you know, like the insurance piece is a lot about helping our customers protect themselves.
Cause we can protect all anything, but you know, some customers get injured before their trip, you know, things, things happen. And if you book an insurance on your booking date and not two days before your trip, like many people do, then you're insured. Also, if something happened between your booking until your trip, and it's very important to people not always, you know, that's not a topic that people like to talk about, right? Insurance is always about what would happen.
Brennen Bliss: Nothing bad is ever going to happen to me. Come on. If I write my will, doesn't that mean I'm going to die? That's basically the thought process.
So what do you see as the future of marketing for travel and tourism? What trends are you seeing? What do you think marketers should be aware of that are listening to this?
Yotam Idan: Wow. There's so many things going on. I think there's many shifts coming. One coming from AI and all the generative AI and chat GPT areas. And what, what will happen with that? Will it become a big channel? Will people buy from bots? Is this something that would happen? There's a lot of different trends and there's a lot of ideas and, and thoughts about that.
But there's also, you know, all what's going on with social media that it's not new, but it's definitely became, I think, very obvious that influencer marketing and strong awareness campaigns. As a strong impact, and you shouldn't be looking at it as a whole. And I think that's why you really need to be good with data.
Again, coming back to that, to understand how each piece of your marketing is contributing to growing your business and to growing your customers. And for us, we literally try them one after the other. It's like a game. You have to crack each platform. You have to crack each channel. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
So you need to be open minded. And we were looking at all these channels. We're trying to optimize on what's. What has more chances to bring values fast. Yeah, very interesting. I'll be happy to tell you more when we have more success in different areas.
Brennen Bliss: And we'll definitely be seeing more of each other.
I think so. It sounds like it's all about iteration, trying things. This interesting model that a friend and mentor of mine, Garrett Mergoot is his name, he talks about using a alpha and a beta strategy, the alpha strategies that, you know, work in the beta strategies you test when you have the budget too.
And you have to continuously be testing to be able to prove that there are new channels and new opportunities. I know that today we have our daily marketing, our weekly marketing stand up with our marketing, our Brand Marketing Manager, Sole, who's helping run this podcast right now. And that's what we're going to be talking about, testing new things, trying new things.
What are the results from the things that we're testing? So I think we're completely aligned there. Wrapping up, I'm curious, what's next for WeSki? What are the marketing initiatives? What's the roadmap look like? What can people get excited about?
Yotam Idan: Yeah. So super exciting. I think I'm here from the get go and it's, I'm always saying it's the most exciting year for us.
So I'm saying it again, it's really the most exciting year for us. We're about to open a lot of new destinations, a lot of new ski resorts in Europe, but also in the US and Canada offering a lot more variety to our customers, but also helping them find the best trips easier. So all of the interesting features in the product, just enabling customers to search more flexibly and eventually finding really the best, uh, value troops for that.
Expanding ourselves to new markets as well is very exciting for us. Yeah, I think in terms of marketing, it's just when you grow your marketing team, you have a lot more capacity. You start working a lot more on refining your brand and refining your messaging, working with the right people to do your commercial.
So, you know, it's going all over. Some directions will work better than others, but we have a lot of very good, interesting initiatives this year. So hopefully we'll see a lot more customers coming from a lot more areas. We're looking forward to open more destinations all over the world. That's our vision.
We want to enable skiers and snowboarders from wherever they live to ski together with their friends. Again, wherever they want, you know, I can meet you, Brennan.
Brennen Bliss: I was just about to say, when are we going skiing?
Yotam Idan: All right. So we're coming to the US this winter and we got to meet each other on the top.
Brennen Bliss: Oh, that is 100 percent going to happen.
I'm not sure what a snowboard is. I will allow you to attempt to do that. But in other news, I'm surprised that it took this long to have that conversation. Let's make it happen. I will meet you anywhere. I'm excited to see when you get some US destinations there. What the booking flow is like making a purchase because I'm certainly going to be a customer. I just don't get over to Europe.
Yotam Idan: What's your favorite resort?
Brennen Bliss: Alta ski area for sure. It's not a sleet, like it's not a destination. It's not like Deer Valley. It's not like Park City. It's nearby. It is a real ski, like it is, I have a friend, Deb Gabor, who I actually, before I met her, I hadn't skied very much and we went up there and reintroduced myself to skiing after 10 or 15 years since I had skied last.
And I have yet to ski a mountain that has number one, the terrain that they have, at least for the terrain that I love. I love trees. I think it's an incredible mountain. It's beautiful. You can go to the top and look over and see four different states. Beautiful. Incredible. Have you been to Alta before?
Yotam Idan: No, I’ve been to Colorado to Canada?
Brennen Bliss: Yeah, I guess we're gonna Utah this winter.
Alright, so where are you going next? That's my last question for you. What, where's your next vacation or trip?
Yotam Idan: Next vacation or trip? Well, I'm coming to California, so that would be interesting this winter, to Lake Tahoe, a first time for me in California skiing, so I was surfing in California a few times, but I never skied there. Yeah. But in Europe, we're opening Norway, which is absolutely beautiful.
Brennen Bliss: Are you going to Big Bear in California?
Yotam Idan: Not this year. Unfortunately, I don't have enough time to test all of the destinations.
Brennen Bliss: I think that's part of research. I honestly think that you can make a strong argument for that.
Uh, well thank you very, very much for being here. I'm so happy that we've crossed paths and met at Phocuswright and I'm excited to see everything that WeSki is doing over the coming years. And I'm excited to see, hopefully you win the Skift idea award, which I think will be announced in September at skip global forum, which Propellic will be at.
But thanks again for joining it. Where can people get a hold of you or check out WeSki if they want to?
Yotam Idan: Yeah. So they can always go to our website and WeSki.com and sign up, you know, on our Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn page, whatever they prefer. And yeah, guys, thank you very much for inviting and, uh, it was great talking and we'll see each other on different events around the world and hopefully it's key together this year.
Brennen Bliss: Absolutely. Thanks, Yotam.
For more empowering ideas, visit Propellic. com. We're on a mission to create more diversity in thought for the planet and dedicated to helping brands, both large and small, increase their reach through intelligent travel, transportation, and tourism marketing. P. R. O. P. E. L. L. I. C. dot com.