Machinima, real-time filmmaking, virtual production and VR. Four veteran machinimators share news, new films & filmmakers, and discuss the past, present and future of machinima.
Ricky Grove 00:14
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey everybody, this is Ricky Grove. I'm here with my friend Tracy Harwood, Phil Rice and Damien Valentine, for the And Now For Something Completely Machinima podcast for February 2023. We're in our third season. Yay. And we're looking at a films for the week. This week, we've got an interesting choice from Damien called Half Life 3 Honest Game Trailers. I liked it a lot. Where did you find it? Damien?
Damien Valentine 00:48
Oh, actually, I, I follow Honest Trailers, because there's two channels there Screen Junkies. And then there's this is one. And what they do is, every week they will review a TV show, or movie, usually movies, but sometimes TV shows, and then the other channel does video games, and they'll do an Honest Trailer. So if they like it, they'll still try and pick out some of the issues with it. But generally, they'll praise it or if it's something really awful, then they'll tear it to pieces, but it's done honestly and fairly. They won't. They won't just destroy something for the sake of it. So I've been following it and they do real stuff. But occasionally, they will do if there's like something that isn't hasn't been released or worse be speculate about it is massively overhyped in a way that it can never possibly live up to those expectations. They will do what they're Honest Training would probably be like if once that thing actually gets released. Yes, yes. So
Ricky Grove 01:45
why don't you pick the Half Life 3 one? Because they've got a lot of mon there. What made you like this one?
Damien Valentine 01:50
Well, this one, I was editing the videos from last month. And there's a bit where Phil was talking about talking to his son about half life three, and it reminded me of this Honest Trailer. And I thought that's gonna be my pics. I went back and watched it. Yeah, this is gonna be a good pick. So I went back found it. And so yeah, this still holds up. So I thought I hoped it would entertain all of you and our listeners. So what do you think?
Ricky Grove 02:17
Oh, I liked it. It was a very funny it's a harkens back to the early spirit of satire and sort of rambunctious filmmaking that the early machinima filmmakers made. It's a witty, very witty use of game footage, I thought and live video the combination was perfect. The pacing was just right. The humour sometimes dips into a little eye rolling stage. I mean, the cockulous rift joke was a bit over the top, but then again, you know, they're the whole style that they're doing it in was really, it fit, you know, but it was a little eye rolling. It was fun. I think even people who don't watch or who don't know anything about Half Life would enjoy the humour in it. My only issue with the film was that I think they should have used a live voice actor instead of a text to speech. Because a live voice actor can use inflection and timing better than text to speech. And comedy in particular relies on really good timing to make funny jokes. So even though it was very funny, I think a live actor would have made it even funnier. So that's just my observation. I enjoyed it was really a very pleasant experience and fun to watch.
Tracy Harwood 03:41
Do you think they did use text to speech?
Ricky Grove 03:45
Sounds like it to me because there were intonations that were repeated. Exactly, and it was
Tracy Harwood 03:53
seven years ago.
Damien Valentine 03:54
It is a live actor because they did one of the nice trailers. They did a game where he did a voice in the game as well. So as a joke, he did the Honest Trailer in his game character voice rather than his
Ricky Grove 04:07
Well, excuse me, I'm wrong. I wish that the actor had a little bit better timing on the end would have vary their voice a little bit. Because it It came off to me like text to speech.
Tracy Harwood 04:21
Well, that's interesting.
Phil Rice 04:22
Other than dry, I found the the narrated trailer like that is from the the I don't know what the old days are. There was that guy, whatever his name was that voice actor that was known as the movie trailer voice and had that real deep intonation and would do these. I was I kind of cringed when I saw the title of this because I've had some exposure to some channels on YouTube that do honest movie trailer or, you know, quote unquote honest movie trailers. And it's there's a, there's a fine line between satire and bitter cynicism. And these YouTube, you know, they're basically like, if it's a review of a James Cameron movie, then it's, it feels like a personal attack on James Cameron. Might as well just say, who are an idiot, you know? So there's this real, it's very unpleasant and I like dark humour and I like sarcasm and satire, obviously. But I don't like those movie trailers, the Honest Trailers, because it feels like okay, somebody's got like a personal they're mean spirited grudge. Yeah. Like it's somebody who maybe got burned in Hollywood or something. You know, and, and that's not fun. You know, I mean, some of what they say. And so I saw this, and I thought, oh, no, you know, I just because I just don't personally enjoy that. This wasn't the spirit of that at all, though. This was like, like you said, it was good old fashioned satire. It's what it's the tone that I wish that those YouTube channels that do the movie trailers, it's what I wish they had, which is, it's, it's good natured ribbing.
Ricky Grove 06:28
Yep. It's irreverent. Yeah. And witty.
Phil Rice 06:32
Yeah. Yeah. And it's something that, you know, it's something that if, if the guys at Valve don't laugh at it, it's because they've got a problem, not because it really is nasty, you know? Exactly. It was not possible. They wouldn't laugh, but if they do, it's like, Come on, man. Oh, yeah, I loved it. And very, I don't know, at both times, a throwback, in the style, but also, you know, borrowing from all these different types of footage, that really a lot harder to do back then, you know, now in the age of memes, it's very easy to, you know, relatively easy to, to do that to do it well still require skill, you know, right, the choices of what to use and when and all that. So, and this is very skillfully done. Very, very enjoyable. And if you've been following, I think, especially for someone older, like me, and, frankly, us who have been following HalfLife since the early days in some degree and valve. It plays into that sense of fun. And we've seen other games of course, that you know, when it's done release dates, and there's still some that are out there like this. Yeah, it's it's, it's fun.
Ricky Grove 07:49
I love their use of live, live, video, you know, intermixed with game footage there sometimes there. The editing was so good that it was a joke itself. It was a humorous statement itself.
Tracy Harwood 08:04
Sure. Sure. Well, I'll tell you what, I thought that
Ricky Grove 08:09
will inevitably you will.
Tracy Harwood 08:13
Yeah, well, okay. I did not know too much about on his game trailers. And what's more, I didn't even know they'd been Emmy nominated, which they apparently have been. My understanding is that voice is somebody is it Jon Bailey? Joe Bailey, Joe Bailey, Jon, what, whatever. And he's got it anyway. He's got that kind of James Earl Jones sort of deep, you know, whatever. He does quite a lot of these. I think I as I understand it, but I think really, this is where I show my age because this level of nerdiness is just something I've never really followed. Absolutely, honestly. I have to say I found the laddish behaviour, crude and quite outdated. So that that bit to me, you know, given it's seven years old, that hasn't stood up so well as some of the other stuff. But but the editing is clearly very well done. You know, it's impressive. I'm not sure if they could have actually included any more cultural classics in there than they actually did. I didn't see Jaws in there. Did you?
Ricky Grove 09:25
No, no, I missed that opportunity?
Tracy Harwood 09:28
Yeah, I think that was a big one that they missed out. So yeah, I thought that was
Ricky Grove 09:33
a Jaws like character in half life too. So they could have could have done
Tracy Harwood 09:37
it. They could have done it make but maybe I missed it. I mean, it was all very abandoned by my very kind of quick. And then I was thinking why on earth did you pick something seven years old, Damien? Do you know something about half life three that we don't, that's what I was going. And then I was thinking, You know what, I bet what you've seen is that little video that came out last year. That Video Game Leaks one where it kind of implied that there might be another attempt to release Half Life three.
Damien Valentine 10:07
I see about that. You did?
Tracy Harwood 10:09
I thought you had. But I don't know if you're aware also that Valve's assets about a week ago, every asset they created from about 2016 was leaked last week. And that's as we record it, and this is at the end of January. But according to what I've seen, there's absolutely zero Half Life 3 assets that appear to have been leaked. So my guess is probably there isn't a Half Life 3 out there. But I dare say over the coming weeks, months, probably folks are going to be going through through all of that sort of content with a toothpick. And we'll probably have some will find out Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I thought that was kind of quite interesting. And I wasn't really quite sure why you might pick something of this age other than other than maybe you knew something that we kind of didn't,
Damien Valentine 11:00
my understanding about the leaker for the content was, it was, but Valve do outsourcing for when the games have ported to other platforms, because they released it for PC, and then they get released on consoles, and so on. So the leak came from that material, which they put out for outsourcing, if they are going to be doing a Half Life 3 or any other three title, which is obviously not been announced yet. That would be very, they wouldn't be including any of that content with that, because they're gonna keep it very close to their chest. So that's why there's no hints there. Doesn't mean it's not happening doesn't mean it is happening. That's just the way it would really be.
Tracy Harwood 11:43
Yeah, well, also the date of the leak, I think 20 2016. But, you know, then I was thinking, you know, and also reflecting on some of the comments on this particular video. I mean, one of them really made me laugh out loud, actually, Half Life 3 is so good, that doesn't even need to be a real game in order to have an Honest Trailer. That was. That was brilliant. Yes, but you know, this, like you said, Ricky, the astonishing level of hype around these games, where folks have been waiting for 20 years to play it. I mean, that's just kind of astonishing, isn't it? But then that, you know, Half Life Alyx did come out around 2020. Right. And that, that would probably be Half Life 3, would it? Maybe?
Ricky Grove 12:29
Well, it doesn't complete. See the the additional problem with the Half Life 3 kerfluffle and angst is that it had a story arc. And the end of Half Life two had a cliffhanger. And with a cliffhanger, it always leaves the expectation that they're going to finish out the story. And he didn't. So in addition to not not having a third game, with third game technology, there's a story breakage there that everybody wants to see resolved.
Phil Rice 13:09
I think that's more significant than there just not being a new game in the halflife world. It's that's that unfinished story. And it's a credit to their storytelling in the first and especially episodes. It's an exceptional wonderfully done world building that they did. And yeah, there's this story arc and it's like it's kind of a twist. There it's like come on,
Ricky Grove 13:33
you know, it's a little twist to because as I recall in the game, you're actually feel like you're getting to the to escape that you're going to escape like you do and Half Life of the Part One Half Life 2, but instead there's a twist, I won't say what it is, but something tragic happens and then you're left there. And so so it created a huge expectation in gamers and that's part of the thing. And I think it's as you point out, Phil, it's a testament to their storytelling because it is so resonant in people's imaginations that they want to know what happened to these characters. He emotionally they want to know what happened to these characters. It would be like Victor Hugo writing three quarters of Les Miserables you know or Gone With the Wind cutting off in the three quarter mark you know, just one
Phil Rice 14:32
Star Wars George George Lucas stops making Star Wars movies at Empire Strikes Back there you go there you can 20 years go by
Tracy Harwood 14:44
and then all hell breaks loose and somebody called Anomidae find something very bizarre in some little weird area. There you go. Yeah, yeah. And anyway, interesting. I do you know what I did actually look up through these guys, we're a fandom games I don't know if you're familiar with Fandom Games? know, founded in 2004 by Jimmy Wales, of Wikipedia infamy with somebody called Angela Beasley Starling was a British web entrepreneur. And it was kind of a site that was originally based on the wiki technology. And it basically started out with about 1500 pages from a group of fans, mainly Star Wars. I think so I don't know if you're familiar with that. Damian.
Damien Valentine 15:34
I probably am. But I didn't make the connection until just now. Yeah,
Tracy Harwood 15:38
well, it apparently it now encompasses over 40 million content pages. Oh my god. 80 languages on 250,000 wikis. Well, we, and it includes information about every fictional universe ever created, according to them. Golly. So if you are a fan, and you're interested in game lore, and you want to talk to others, or just learn about the that fictional world, that's the place to go.
Ricky Grove 16:07
We also have some wonderful game trailers for other games on their YouTube channel, which is where we saw this one. So check them out. They all have that same irreverent, very funny and highly crafted satirical style to them.
Damien Valentine 16:23
Yeah, I wanted to pick this one because it's a fictional at the moment game, rather than picking one that's about a real game.
Ricky Grove 16:31
Yes, yes. Yeah. I'd like to point out something about our criticism of this. We've gotten some comments recently, both mostly pro but some con ones, too, about what our comments and criticism in this, and in this particular episode, we've talked about a film, and we all like it, right. But we all have different ideas about what makes it good. And in particular, Tracy pointed out that there were some problems with the age of the and the nerdy quality of humour that didn't appeal to her. Now, we don't have any sponsors for this show. Nobody pays us to do advertising, we do this purely out of the pleasure and joy of of doing it and finding films and talking about it. So we're honest in our criticism. Now, we obviously try not to be mean spirited. I mean, we were pointing, Phil was pointing out that problem with the satirical pieces that are just mean, and it seems like a personal attack. We never tried to do that. That's not our point. But we are honest, and we are straightforward. And sometimes we're blunt about it. And I'd like to point out that our criticism is, is, is balanced in a sense that we have four different people talking about the different about it from a different point of view. So if there's a problem, we argue about it, I'm here I am, at the beginning of this complaining about it thinking that this was a text to speech, when it wasn't, and my and the three of you pointed out it wasn't and I sorry, I messed that up. So we have the ability to be able to respond to each other each other's criticism and, and test it in a debate style format. So if you feel somehow that you're, you're not being appreciated in our in our episodes about the film, I'm sorry for you. Because criticism is, in the way we do it, you take away what you can use, and you don't pay attention to what doesn't make any any meaning to you. So do you guys have any thoughts about our criticism on this show? And in responses to
Ricky Grove 16:43
Someone once asked me how, how to best handle internet criticism, because they seem that I get a lot on my Heir to the Empire videos. And I say, well, there's three kinds of criticism you're going to get over the internet. The first one is, people will say, Oh, this is great, we loved it. You know, just praise that's always very nice to hear. Then the next one is, this is great, but kind of maybe the music was a little bit too loud here. But otherwise, I really enjoyed it. And you can look at that. Maybe it was a bit too loud. So next time, you can pay more attention to the volume of the music and and learn from it. And then the third kind is people who will deliberately go out of the way and say this is the worst thing they've ever seen in their life. Tear it to pieces, where you get that you either laugh at it, or you ignore it. Because it serves no purpose. It serves no
Ricky Grove 19:44
purpose. Right, exactly.
Phil Rice 19:46
Damian because I thought I thought we were getting what you're gonna say is, oh, well, maybe I'll pay a little more attention next time. Is this the worst thing that's ever been? did?
Damien Valentine 19:56
I make it worse. Really? Bring it down even further than it's already. And I think we do is in the middle. Like, we like that. We praise what we like. And if there's, you know, something like, maybe the sound isn't quite right. You know, the music's too loud, like I just said, we will say that the music was little bit too loud in this bit. And it's hard to hear what the characters are saying. And that's just a reality of the film. It happens. Lots of people make mistakes like that. It's not nothing to be ashamed of. It's just a learning experience and learn from it. And exactly, yeah,
Ricky Grove 20:37
I never inevitably, criticism is an opinion. But the difference is, is that our opinions are informed opinions. Because not only do we know about this medium, and we know about film and machinima, but we've but three of us have been practising it for over two decades. And Tracy has been writing about it critically for over two decades. So we have an informed opinion, as opposed to just to four people off the street who go oh, yeah, it was really funny, a cockulous. You know, it's so we are opinions have have weighed. You know, what I mean?
Phil Rice 21:17
I think it's even more than that to I think, Damian that it's possible that what we're doing, and frankly, there's other shows with this type of format that are out there on other topics. The reason I don't think we fall into that simple scale of, you know, unqualified praise, praise but with some ideas and go f yourself. I don't think we're on that scale, because this is a discussion. This is four people who have watched a lot of films in this genre, talking about your film. Yeah. And say, the same way we would if the four of us got together over at Tracy's house, and we're sitting in our living room and having tea and talking about, Hey, did you guys watch such and such and we just talked about it. So it's, it's hard to, unless the four people that are getting together, having tea talking about your movie are like really bitter, angry people who are just out to destroy things. And if you get that impression from watching our show that I don't know what you're watching now, because that's not who we are. It's not what we're up to do. We love talking about these films, even films that aren't our favourites. We just love talking about them. And part of that talking about them is things I liked about it, and things that I wish they had done differently. And all of that, you know, so I think that makes it different. Because as Ricky pointed out, there's really not any opinion that can get expressed in this form, like a YouTube comment would, that doesn't get challenged, that doesn't get evaluated by friends and colleagues immediately. Like you. You can't just throw something out there. I guess you could you could just say I just didn't like it. I don't want to talk about it. But that's, that sucks. That show would suck if that's what we did. You know? Yeah. So yeah. So Ricky, you'll say something, and he'll have a strong opinion on something. And maybe Tracy has a different opinion. And then, and then it sparks ideas by me and Damien. And it's a wonderful thing. So yeah, I think
Tracy Harwood 23:25
I love that we come at it from so many different directions,
Phil Rice 23:30
about how to film and that's good and good. Goodness gracious. What do you think discussions are discussions aren't all? You know, let's, let's, let's all just make a concerted effort to pat this complete stranger on the back who made this? We don't know you, you know. So that that gives, I think that that's a plus that we don't generally know you when we're reviewing your film, it means that we're not out to get you. And we're also we have no incentive to lie to you about what we think you've done wrong, or right. You know, like, when my son does a performance at school, plays piano, he comes up and asked me, How did I do? It's like, no matter what answer I give him, it's his dad's saying something you know, so I can be as honest as I want, but in his head, it's always going to be would he ever would he really tell me if I stunk? You know, the answer, by the way, son, if you listen to the shows, yes, I would. Yes, I would. Yes, I would tell you
Tracy Harwood 24:36
if you and he would never listen to you. It would be the most loving thing
Phil Rice 24:39
that I could do.
Ricky Grove 24:41
I'm gonna censor that bit when I edit this. Yeah. The answer son is blaaaah
Phil Rice 24:46
anyone anyway, so yeah, I would encourage anyone to look at it that way that the positive is here is that we're, hey, people are actually having a conversation about your film, how often do you really get to observe that on the internet? If you're releasing something to the crowd, all you get, are these little pot shot comments that are either completely unqualified and unhelpful praise that it's kind of like eatin an m&m. It's like, Ooh, that was tasty. Still hungry. And then there's, you know, the useful stuff. Like Damien said, it's in the middle of the sandwich. And then there's the people who it's like, I'm glad these people don't know where I live, because it sounds like they would like to hurt me. You know, this isn't any of those things. This is a good, I hope, helpful conversation. We also as experienced as we are, none of us are, like, inflated with our own egos or think that we are.
Phil Rice 25:45
I'm being wigs. Ricky. Ricky was Ricky was on Quantum Leap. You can't do that without
Ricky Grove 25:45
I am a little bit
Ricky Grove 25:55
Babylon 5.
Tracy Harwood 25:57
Right. Yeah. And, and he was Red Eric.
Phil Rice 26:00
Hello. Yeah. Anyway, seriously, though? Yeah. I think if you listen to the show, you'll find I hope, that we're for people who are confident in our opinions, confident in what we know. But we're, we also know that we're not infallible. We have no agenda. Why this? That's why this discussion is good. Because every single one of us has been right on this show. And every single one of us has been wrong about something. Or just maybe it's not even right and wrong. It's just has the opinion that others agree with it, or doesn't. So and it's good. It's good.
Ricky Grove 26:40
Thank you. Good comments. Phil. Tracy.
Tracy Harwood 26:42
I, I completely agree with with all of what you said, I, I think we have a healthy discussion about films that we're enjoying. I think we all come at this from from very different perspectives. We know what good criticism is, I think. And I think, I think certainly what I would like to sort of think that we do is given enough feedback for people to be able to say, yeah, that needs to be tweaked a little maybe in that direction. Or to know why we really like it, and from, you know, to learn from that sort of side of things as well. But I will just say one thing, irrespective of what other people think I actually learn so much from from what you guys all comment as well. I mean, it's really good to so I don't, you know, I'm not really that bothered what other people think if I'm honest, I really enjoyed the discussion and being able to talk about these films, to folks that really know what they're talking about is an absolute treat for me.
Ricky Grove 27:46
Yeah, yeah. I come away from our episodes, our session sometimes so psyched and interested. You know, I do more research I write and stuff because I get it stimulates my imagination. And yeah, I think
Phil Rice 28:00
it energises me as well. Yeah. I
Damien Valentine 28:03
love the films that the three of you pick. When I watch them. I try and look at them and think Is this something I can learn from this? I can apply to my own filmmaking as well. Because I mean, on my own, I may not have ever found some of these films. So you know, yeah, you guys are helping me as well, on that level.
Tracy Harwood 28:22
Oh, for sure, I would never have found the films that that you guys pick, I wouldn't have been looked for them. So that's what I appreciate the fact that we all come at it from very different perspectives. And you know, we've all been judges on that on film festivals for yours as well, haven't we? And, you know, the opportunity to sort of continue that kind of, you know, professional criticism, I think is actually really, you know, interesting development cycle. I mean, I was, I was the organiser of an event in 2007. I know you guys were involved in the early machinima film festivals from 2002 onwards, I think. Yeah. Machinima Expo and the expo. Yeah. That went into the early 2010s. I mean, we've got a long history with this stuff. It's good fun.
Ricky Grove 29:10
Good. Well, thank you very much. I appreciate you guys talking about what we do. And also listeners and watchers, if you have some ideas about the film that we have just reviewed, which I think was called the Half Life 3 Honest Game Trailers. Damian picked it, you have some thoughts about that or you'd like to share with us or you've made the film and you want to talk about it, check with us at talk at completely machinima.com. Also, I didn't mention this at the beginning, but Tracy has been really doing a bang up job with our blog at completely machinima.com. She's been adding lots of interesting posts on AI development. You'll find stuff about the lawsuit that was recently filed on behalf of three artists against the AI generated, Stable Diffusion and a couple other places you'll find stuff about that. Lots of really, really interesting stuff. So it's a very rich place to go. So check out the blog at completely machinima.com. Any last comments anybody has? No for me, though. All right. Well, thanks a lot for watching this time. This will be the second week of February. We'll come back next week with another film. So we'll see you next time. Goodbye. Bye bye.