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Licensed psychologist Dr. Jen McWaters, and wellness coach Kaitlin Reed, join forces to help women create an abundant life through holistic wellness practices, mindset shifts, and fostering a healthy relationship with food and their bodies. Join us as we take a deep dive and uncover the raw truth about mental health, nutrition, fitness, and beyond, offering insights and strategies for transformative growth.
Dr. Jen McWaters is a licensed psychologist and a holistic wellness coach for women. She is a Certified Integrative Mental Health Professional and is passionate about helping high-achieving women overcome their mental blocks, find freedom from anxiety, and create an abundant life inside and out. Find out more about her work at: awakeningholistichealth.com
Kaitlin Reed is a fitness, nutrition, and mental wellness coach on a mission to help women build the body and life they deserve and desire. She has BAs in Health Promotion and Wellness & Fitness Management, MA in Performance Psychology, currently pursuing her Ph.D. in Health Psychology. Her goal is to help women finally understand the science and strategy of nutrition and exercise so they can achieve their goals and live an empowered life. Head over to kaitlinreedwellness.com to learn more.
DISCLAIMER: This podcast is for educational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Please consult with your personal physician if you have any personal medical questions.
Welcome to the Counter Culture Health podcast. I'm doctor Jen McWaters.
Kaitlin:And I'm coach Caitlin Reed. We're here
Jen:to help high achieving women overcome mental blocks, find freedom from anxiety, create an abundant life, and build the body and life that they deserve and desire. In this
Kaitlin:weekly podcast, we'll uncover the raw truth about mental health, nutrition, fitness, and beyond. Let's get to it. Hi friends. Welcome back to another episode of counterculture health podcast. Thanks for joining us and tuning in again for another great week of conversation.
Kaitlin:Today, we are going to touch on toxins, specifically clothing and how it impacts our health, hormones, fertility, a whole array of, you know, health issues that it could contribute to. So doctor Jen is going to do most of the speaking on this one. So I am going to hand it over to her and let her take it away.
Jen:Thank you, Caitlin. So I love this topic because it's near and dear to my heart as someone who's gone through unexplained infertility. You know, when I went through that process, I really started to self educate on toxins and ways to decrease my exposure. And in that process, I learned a lot about the things in our environment that really silently impact us or may impact us over the long haul. We may not be aware.
Jen:And one of those things, is toxins, particularly in our clothing. So so I wanted to bring people's attention to that today. And I'll just disclaimer. I know it can be overwhelming if this is the first time you're hearing about this. A lot of us, me included, have toxins in our wardrobe.
Jen:It's it's pretty ubiquitous. So just just know that, you know, take this in stride, clean some nuggets from it. And at the end, we're also gonna talk about some practical ways you can reduce your exposure, because there's no way to live a nontoxic lifestyle. You can live a low tox lifestyle, reduce your exposure, make sure you're appropriately detoxing, but, ultimately, it's something we have to learn how to live with and not necessarily be afraid of. So just keep that in mind.
Jen:But to, to Caitlin's point, the reason it's so important is because these toxins can impact our fertility, create allergies for us, increase the risk of cancer and heart attack, brain health, and even other chronic diseases. So the two areas I'm gonna focus on today are microplastics and PFAS. Also, they're basically fluorinated chemicals. So let's start with microplastics. And so you may not think about these things as microplastics, but this includes things like polyester, nylon, polyamide, PVC, acrylic, and polyurethane.
Jen:And all those are commonly seen and found in clothing and on your clothing labels right now. They're in your closet. Especially things like leggings typically have are made of polyester and nylon with elastane, those kinds of things. So why is this important? Well, a recent study in the New England Journal of Medicine found that the presence of microplastics can increase the risk of heart attack and other cardiovascular problems among those who already had heart disease, and so actually doubled the the risk of stroke for those that were already at risk.
Jen:And then they even found that when they did studies on animals, microplastics, in within mice showed that this exposure could disrupt the gut biome, lower sperm quality and testosterone, and impair learning and memory. And so, obviously, if it's impacting sperm calling testosterone, that also on the female side would have fertility implications as well as these are also endocrine disruptors. So polyester, let's focus on that one because that one I think is in most of our closets, and it's it's a big portion of clothing. So polyester fibers make up about 70% of microplastic pollution, such as in the Arctic. So it's not just in our clothing, but it's in our water supply.
Jen:It's in the fish. It's in the animals that eat the water and the fish and in the air, so they they really are everywhere. And you can find in soil, etcetera too, so they impact our agriculture system and washing machines. So when we wash synthetic text textiles like polyester, it releases these microfibers in the wash, And, again, those end up in our oceans and our waterways and our drinking water and then the animals as well, and then we consume those animals and drink the water. So it's not just on your clothing, but it's also been ending up in the environment and then ending up back within our bodies.
Jen:And it can be absorbed through our skin as well. So that's kind of a different frame of thinking. I think that's kind of countercultural as well. So think about the things that are around you and on your body do matter. I think there's more awareness now around creams and lotions and organic food, but clothing is part of that too.
Jen:It just doesn't seem like it because it's not visible to the naked eye, but these microfibers and the plastics and the dyes and chemicals are absorbed through your skin, absorbed into your bloodstream, and then can wreak havoc on your health. Yeah. So that one is really important. Yeah.
Kaitlin:Yeah. And just to, like, touch on that, it's bringing this up as, like, just something else to consider, especially when, like you mentioned before in your journey, you were eating well, you were exercising, you eliminated alcohol, you were managing your stress. You were doing all of these things to get you healthy and keep you healthy and, to work on your fertility, but there was still, like, this unexplained thing. So it's thinking about, okay. I'm already I'm doing all of these things.
Kaitlin:I should be in a good place, but there are also other factors that still need to be considered and thought about. So this is kind of like taking that next step of, I'm doing all these things already. What else can I look at that can help move the needle or, help improve things?
Jen:Right. And especially for our kids, because kids are more prone to toxicity and sensitive too, and they have, you know, smaller bodies, smaller organs. So exposure for us is gonna be different in ratio compared to exposure for them. So particularly for kids, as we'll talk about, I think it's really important to, invest more in nontoxic clothing for them, which is something I've always prioritized as well for my son. And there have been some studies that show polyester microfibers being linked to miscarriages in women and can be, found to reduce sperm count as well and even genital size in men.
Jen:Just really interesting stuff. And, again, that stuff that's talked about. And it's hard because, again, culture focuses on convenience and what is convenient and efficient and quick. So culture says, go find the cheapest clothing you can for the lowest price that's as easy accessible as possible, whether that's buying online or through Amazon. Right?
Jen:We're looking at the dollar sign. We're not thinking about what is the quality of the item I'm receiving and how is it impacting my health. And so that's what I encourage people to do, to think more counterculture as far as their clothing and try to stay away from fast fashion as much as possible. So fast fashion is like the Forever 21 brands. And even, you know, bigger ones, Gap H and M, they're doing a better job because they're getting more on board with consumers' wants and needs.
Jen:So there are, lines of their clothing. They have, like, organic cotton and fibers like that. But in general, we wanna stay away from fast fashion and the the synthetic fibers, essentially. That already is going to move you, in the right direction. So those are some things you need.
Jen:So other tips to reduce exposure of microplastics, and then we'll talk about PFAS. So dust and vacuum regularly, because, again, it's about 33% of household dust, floating dust, is actually microplastics from textiles. Yikes. So more reason to vacuum regularly, dust regularly, think about how if it's really dusty, the dust is settling on your food, which then you're eating. So, again, making sure you're keeping your house dust free using high quality air filters as well can be a great help, something I do.
Jen:Making sure you are using a good high quality water filter. Brands like Clearly Filtered are great. Aqua True is great too, where they really do eliminate stuff, not just take out chlorine. So just like the cheap Brita ones don't really do anything. You wanna go for the higher quality water filters that are proven and shown to really eliminate those chemicals and plastics from your water.
Jen:Other than suggestion on air filters. You have a brand name. A popular one is Air Doctor, which is a great one, high quality. I have some molecule filters, which people have mixed feelings about, but I've really liked mine. There's so many good brands out there.
Jen:So just look at reviews, look at 3rd party testing, and make sure it actually eliminates what it says it's supposed to eliminate. But there's a lot of ones now. The market's pretty big for that. So just I always say, like, buy the best one you can afford to, and then just keep changing the filters regularly as well. Avoid drinking from plastic water bottles.
Jen:That's a huge source of microplastics. So So making sure you're using high quality stainless steel instead or glass or something else like that and trying to just make sure you're not using them unless it's like you have to have to. Obviously, you don't want you to get dehydrated. So if you have to use 1, you take 1, you have to do it, but try to reduce that as much as possible. And then, other things like in the kitchen, avoid plastic cutting boards.
Jen:Try to use natural ones, wood, glass, etcetera, steel. And then the big one too is don't microwave your food in plastic. I think a lot of people know that now, but, a, I I don't recommend microwaving in general for the quality of the food and what happens to the food itself. But then, especially if you're microwaving it, don't do it in a plastic container. Make sure it's in glass.
Jen:So those are some
Kaitlin:Yeah. Storing food, especially like Yes. I'm thinking about this from my end of, you know, encouraging people to meal prep and or have foods prepared in bulk so they can grab and go. So I'm thinking about storing in glass containers rather than plastic too. Yep.
Kaitlin:And that's a lot of, like, the meal prep containers are plastic, unfortunately, but I know, like, Pyrex and stuff now has, glass containers that people can make the switch over to.
Jen:Right. And I said, especially for kids. Like, kids' lunch boxes are often plastic and and all that. It's just light and convenient. But now there's some amazing companies like PlanetBox.
Jen:I love them. They make these really cool kid lunch boxes that are purely stainless steel, like, through in the in the hinge. And you can throw them in the dishwasher, and they last for years years. And they're super cute and have little compartments, and they're lights, lighter at least than obviously glass. So there's Yeah.
Jen:Good. I was gonna say
Kaitlin:you don't wanna give a little kid a little glass lunch milk container. Yeah.
Jen:Yeah. With a, they'll have the ND, they'll break it, and that would Right. So yeah. So stainless steel is great. You know, if if it's a there can be ceramics as well can be great if they're not coated with extra chemicals.
Jen:Right? And then, of course, we'll talk about PIVAS, but really be wary of anything that says nonstick. Or if it's clothing, if it says wrinkle resistant or waterproof or, antimicrobial. Like, all those things are basically chemical treatments. Like, fabrics aren't naturally really that way.
Jen:Some fabrics have that quality. I think it's, like, silk maybe that can be naturally more resistant to things. But often in clothing, when they're advertising, that's because they've added a chemical process to make it that way. So just keep that in mind. There's always a price for convenience.
Jen:Right? That's how it works, unfortunately. So let's, before we get to PIPAs, just as a reference here, if you want to do a deeper dive and I mean, I'm a research nerd, so I love this kind of stuff. This may not be up your alley, but there's this great book that's out there that's called, titled to die for, a dye spelled d y e. It says how toxic fashion is making us sick and how we can fight back.
Jen:And that's by Alden Wicker, and it really exposes the dark side of the fashion industry, looks at the widespread use of toxic chemicals in clothing production, and even reviewed some of these really interesting, legal cases and things that went to court. So for example, in 2011, there was a airline airline attendance health crisis because they got new uniforms. You may have heard of this. They all ordered new uniforms and moved away from the old school wool, which is more natural fibers and naturally flame resistant, and then they move towards synthetics. And in order to have a synthetic fiber that's, you know, wrinkle resistant and fire resistant, you have to throw a ton of chemicals on there.
Jen:So, this was happening across actually lots of major airlines. A lot of them made switches to different companies. And so people or airline attendants were experiencing things like asthma and chemical burns on their skin, respiratory issues, like long term chronic stuff. And there was a lab that found that the uniforms contained 97 chemical compounds. 97, including lead, arsenic, cobalt, toluene, chromium.
Jen:So that's scary stuff, and that's just and, of course, they had a escalated response because they were wearing the uniforms every single day for long periods of time, sometimes overnight on flights, right, in small cabin spaces with not a lot of air filtration. So they had this, like, really exacerbated response. But think about this, even if you're not experiencing a response, you are having this long term accumulation in your body of these toxins. Your body may not right now be telling you that it's, you know, inflamed or experiencing reaction, but sometimes that shows up later. Or in these subtle ways, you can't connect back to those toxins, and that's why they're so tricky because you can't, you know, look back and say, like like me, like, oh, my fertility was due to all of the lululemon I wore for a decade.
Jen:You know? Like, I'm, but I can't prove that. Right. There's just so many factors at play. So you just wanna always be thinking about reducing your exposure and making the switches when you can, and can afford to.
Jen:So any thoughts on that before we move on to PIFAs?
Kaitlin:I'm just thinking, you know, usually, by the time you have, like, external signs or, you know, symptoms of something means that it was probably, like, a buildup over a long period of time. Now it's finally, like, revealing itself.
Jen:Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Often, it's like people think, oh, now I'm having a symptom. Not a problem.
Jen:It's it's probably been a problem a long time, and it's finally manifesting in a symptom.
Kaitlin:So Exactly.
Jen:We don't want it to get to that point. You don't wanna wait until you have a symptom to see it as a problem and then try to rectify it because it's harder to recover once you're ready in the place of reaction and inflammation.
Kaitlin:Yeah. Preventative rather than reactive.
Jen:Exactly. Exactly. Yes. Being proactive. So, again, even if you're like, I don't have any problems, and that's fine.
Jen:That's great. And some people are less, I think, more some people are more sensitive than others. But just keep this in mind, it's still being absorbed in your body. And even if you're not worried about you, it is impacting the waterways and the animals and, you know, people in the home, etcetera. So there is, like, this downstream effect as well.
Jen:So a lot of people may not care about that so much, but they may care more about the environment, so that matters too. And that's also being impacted by these chemicals. So let's talk about PFAS. PFAS have gotten a lot more press lately, and, that stands for a long word that I can't pronounce. So I'll just call them PFAS, but they're fluorinated chemicals, but they're basically what the things that create the nonstick, the waterproof aspects of things like clothing and cookware.
Jen:So they're, again, really convenient, where you're, like, especially in the wintertime, you want to have waterproof clothing. So it's not that you can't ever wear these things, but just be aware of the impact and you wanna reduce exposure. And there are companies coming out with at least better chemicals. I wouldn't say they're completely nontoxic, but there are better versions of these chemicals that do provide a similar or close to similar level of protection or waterproofing. But, essentially, again, like, these PFAS can be found in water purplent clothing, cookware, firefighting foam as well, but they're called forever chemicals because they don't break down and they actually accumulate in our bodies over time and in the environment.
Jen:And drinking water is one of the greatest sources of our exposure to PFAS. And, again, so look for a water filter that says it filters out that specific type of chemical. Also shows up in livestock, food products, and it's basically present in the blood of nearly all Americans, sadly to say. So, again, can't be completely nontoxic. All of us probably have this.
Jen:We've been exposed to it. You wanna just reduce your exposure over time. So couple things that came up in the news. So the brand Thinks I don't know if you guys heard about that brand, but that was a reusable period underwear that kinda had, a moment in the press that yeah. So there was, like, a time Caitlin's like, I don't know about that.
Kaitlin:Oh, yeah.
Jen:So there there was a time when, you know, well, that there are multiple companies now. I think Thinx is still around where they created this reusable period underwear to provide extra protection. The problem is they coded those in PIPAs. So they actually had to pay a $5,000,000 settlement because of that. And even REI had a lawsuit or has a lawsuit.
Jen:I don't know if it's still active, targeting its raincoat line for these PIPAs again. And then a lot of our favorites I'm so sorry. I didn't burst the bubble, but Lululemon. Yes. And I own I'm
Kaitlin:glad I did the lemon. Glad I never jumped on the Lululemon train.
Jen:Well, here's the problem, though. About 25% of all leggings test positive for these chemicals, and even things like, sorry. Clothing companies like Gap and Athleta have also come under fire for that. So, hopefully, yours don't contain that. Right?
Jen:But, again, even if it doesn't have PFAS, it's still a polyester microplastic, so we can't really avoid the toxin either way there. So, again, we'll talk about other options, but Lululemon, had been found to have lots of PIFAs, and they decided to, I think, remove them by 2023 or end of 2023. So now I think most of them should not have that. But a lot of us have athletic clothing from years ago because it's lasts a long time. Right?
Jen:And that's some of the benefit of that in investing in those clothing items. So just be aware that your old Lululemon probably includes PIFAs. And, sadly, one of the areas that most often activewear contains the PIFAs is in the crotch area. Yeah. I know.
Jen:Great. Yeah. Yeah.
Kaitlin:Yeah. Yeah. I was just actually I was listening to something the other day. There's a discussion about this and, like, the best you could do is have, like, another barrier there. So wearing something else under you know, it doesn't take it away, but it's like it's so, like, concentrated right in the area where we don't want it the most.
Kaitlin:Right?
Jen:Totally. Yeah. So, I mean, at a minimum, I'd say make sure that your underwear is things like organic cotton, for example. That provides a barrier, and that's closest to your skin. Right?
Jen:But definitely, that's why I'm really passionate about switching out your athletic clothing because we're sweating in that. Right? We're body heat, and I I believe I can't I'm if I look this up, I probably could find it, but I believe that increased your risk too. Right? Because you really are absorbing more as you're sweating, your pores are open, heat transfer, all that.
Jen:So more reason to really switch out your athletic gear. But, I know it's hard because all of us have our beloved athletic items that we invested in, and, that's something to have to grieve sometimes too.
Kaitlin:Yep. I know this might be a little bit off topic, but it it brings up kind of similar to is, how they have found heavy metals in tampons. Yeah. You know, and that is Wild. Not just on the outside of our skin, but literally going inside of us.
Kaitlin:And it yeah. It's just it's bizarre.
Jen:Yeah. You know, again, it just it just goes to show that we, as consumers, often just automatically trust that these companies have our best interest at heart, but end of the day, they are a business. That doesn't mean that they're bad, but it means that they are focusing on making a profit and making a product that lasts and gets good reviews and performs well. And often performance fabrics are some of the most toxic fabrics. So that's just the reality is is I always say that we, as humans, always solve one problem and create 10 more.
Jen:So while we've solved a problem as far as making fashion more affordable and fast and easy to mass produce and, you know, vibrant in color and non wrinkling and inconvenient to throw on, we've created 10 other problems as far as toxicity and environmental concerns, etcetera. And so I always think about that when I'm buying a product is, you know, what you know, what's the company? Do they have transparency about their practices? What's the material? What are the what's the exposure risk?
Jen:Is this the best that I can afford for what I need? Those kinds of things you wanna be thinking about. Don't assume just because it's available to buy that it's safe. Same goes for food and clothing and cookware. Actually, I get more concerned the cheaper it is because that's the one I know it's more synthetic and more laden with chemicals, especially clothing and cookware, in particular and textiles.
Jen:So just keep that in mind. And the reason PFAS are a concern so we talked about microplastics, but here's some of the things with PFAS. Again, please don't freak out and stress about this, but all of us have exposure. But just for your awareness, why this matters? We have a reduction in immunity.
Jen:We have a more risk of metabolic diseases as well. We have effect on growth and learning and behavior of infants and older kids, increased risk of allergies and asthma, it lowers fertility rates, increases miscarriage rates, lowers sperm count, smaller genital size for men, increases the risk of certain cancers, increases cholesterol levels, all those interesting stuff, and then cardiovascular disease as well, among other things. So what to do? So number one thing that I've tried to implement for me is to slowly eliminate and replace. It's a lot and overwhelming to try to do this all once.
Jen:If you can, go for it in great. But most of us can't afford to do that, and it's a process. So that means as you are in the market for new clothing in particular, buy from better brands. Buy the best that you can afford and the most natural that you can afford. And if you have to buy something that's plastic based like polyester, make sure it is free of the PIFAs and that it doesn't have any unsafe dyes in it as well because that's also a concern.
Jen:And be wary of things like recycled polyester because some companies are just focusing on recycling the microplastic products, but that doesn't mean that your exposure is any less when it comes to your health and toxin concerns if it's recycled. It still contains those chemicals and still microplastics. So just keep that in mind. Look for certifications like certified organic. Okiotex is also a textile certification you can look for that it's a safer chemical certification.
Jen:And then just really focus on natural fibers. So organic cotton, my top choice always. It's more affordable, easy to clean, maintain. It's super comfortable. Linen is great too in the summertime.
Jen:Hemp, There are some bamboo based, like, TENCEL that I think are okay. I'll double check on that. And I think they're oh, silk wool, etcetera, of course. And then when you're thinking about your house, same thing for your furniture. There are now, like, organic furniture companies or natural fiber sofas that are coming out.
Jen:Same with your curtains, your textiles, your towels, your mattresses, especially. There are almost tons of amazing companies out now that provide organic or at least natural products inversions for all those things in your home.
Kaitlin:Lots to think about. The hummus.
Jen:I will say before we wrap up, so a couple things to look into because I know it can be overwhelming when you're just searching the Internet. So one of my top favorite companies is packed organic. I don't get any money for saying this, unfortunately, because I buy a lot of their clothing. I love packed organic, especially for underwear, sweaters, basics, leggings. I worked out today and my entire outfit head to toe is basically packed organic, and it's way cheaper than Athleta or Lululemon.
Jen:Obviously, you're not gonna get the same performance aspect, but they're affordable and they're safe and they're so comfy. So that's a big one.
Kaitlin:What are their workout pants made of? Or, like, what
Jen:are they like? It's just organic cotton with elastane, so there's a little bit of the the elastane, elastane, which isn't, you know, natural, I guess, but there's no other way to have a stretchy legging without some elastic.
Kaitlin:I was gonna say, are they, like, loose fitting now, or are they still stretchy?
Jen:Yeah. Yeah. They're tight. I mean, I love them. They're so comfortable.
Jen:They're not gonna be as compressive because it's organic cotton as there's more stretch, but they're wonderful. So I love those. And, Maggie's Organics makes really great organic cotton fleece legging for this for the fall and wintertime, and they're super soft and comfortable. And then there's I haven't tried these yet, but there's a brand called Nammary, and they make workout leggings that are hemp based, and that's n a m a r I e. I want to try them.
Jen:They look fabulous, and they're supposed to be more performance based, but they're completely hemp. And it's a bio based microplastic free legging. So definitely check that one out. And then other brands for kids, Burt's Bees, and there are, again, organic lines for Gap and H and M that are more affordable, which I do buy a lot of basics for my kiddo with them, like organic on T shirts and shorts and pants and all that. What else?
Jen:There's Allbirds for shoes, my favorite shoe brand. A lot of their shoes are are more bio based materials, eucalyptus and wool, and they're super cozy and comfortable as well. And then for work stuff, I like quince, which has a lot of cotton, linen, silk items as well, and lots of good ones out there. There's, so many, so I won't I won't overdo it there. But just know that if you Google, look for things like organic cotton or nontoxic clothing company.
Jen:And with that, you'll you should get, like, a whole bunch of things in different price ranges, and you'll find something that works for you.
Kaitlin:Do you have a favorite, like, cookware brand that you have or use?
Jen:I do have I have one pan from Xtrema, and that's a ceramic one that's it works well. Again, performance wise, it's not awesome for all things. So I do just go classic. I use a lot of cast iron and, like, an uncoated cast iron for things like, like cooking steak and etcetera. And I do have some high quality stainless steel that doesn't have the added chemicals.
Jen:So that's usually my the 3 that I use. So some ceramic, stainless steel, and then cast iron. Nothing with nonstick.
Kaitlin:Yeah. Alright. Yeah. Great suggestions.
Jen:Anything else well, Meg. I don't know. I know it's a lot. How are you feeling?
Kaitlin:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I learned so much too, and that's definitely you know, I focus a lot on my nutrition and fitness and sleep and, you know, eliminating alcohol and managing my stress. You know? And so this is, like, the next thing that I need to start looking at and and thinking more about that can just optimize my health even more.
Kaitlin:And yeah. So I don't think today we don't want to, like, overwhelm people or make them more anxious of like, oh, this is just another thing I need to think about or that's harming me or killing me or whatever. So not being, like, an alarmist message, but more of just, like, awareness and something to think about and, you know, start implementing slowly, like you mentioned, of slowly eliminating some things and, you know, bringing in other options when you can.
Jen:I always say just vote with your dollar, number 1. So the more of us that want that and vote for that and buy that, the more companies will get on board too. And so as a whole, we'll be able to change the fashion industry in that way, and consumer voting is so important. So, again, buy the best that you can afford and vote with your dollar. And if you like, to Kayla's point, if you aren't first focusing on your nutrition and eating organic food and making sure that you're sleeping, like, those are so important because that helps your body detox all the chemicals that are in the environment.
Jen:So start there. I always say start toxin wise. Start with what's going inside your body. And once that's kind of set and you have that routine, then focus on what's on your body. So step 1 is the nutrition, the sleep, like, the water quality air.
Jen:And then from there, I go to, you know, makeup and lotions and clothing. And then from there, I might look at my home environment with, like, textiles and furniture. So an inward to outward approach, I think, is less overwhelming. And what is priority would be that. Right?
Jen:Start with what's going in your body first and then work outward from there.
Kaitlin:Yep. Yep. Yeah. I love that. I'm all like, focus on the big rocks first.
Kaitlin:You know? And then once we get those down, then we can start looking at all of the other things too. So I think this is just such a good conversation for awareness, you know, gives give people things to another thing to think about and and start being aware of, that they can implement. So thanks for bringing all that great information to us today. I know I learned a lot from that too and have some things to think about.
Kaitlin:So I'm sure everybody else does as well. Thanks for letting me talk about it. Yeah. I love it. And thank you guys so much for joining us again today, and we'll see you next week.
Jen:Thanks for joining us on the Counter Culture Health podcast. To support this show, please rate, review, and share with your friends and family. If you wanna be reminded of new episodes, click the subscribe button on your preferred podcast player. You can find me, Jen, at awaken.holistic.healthand@awakeningholistichealth.com.
Kaitlin:And me, Caitlin, at Caitlin Reed Wellness and and caitlinreedwellness.com. The content of the show is for educational and informational purposes only. As always, talk to your doctor and health team. See you next time.